The Pro-Life Movement Had a Plan Post-Roe. The G.O.P. Didn’t.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.พ. 2024
- When the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in 2022, the Republican Party declared victory.
But the Alabama Supreme Court’s decision last month that frozen embryos are considered “extrauterine children,” which prompted hospitals to suspend I.V.F. procedures, has complicated that victory. Given Americans’ overwhelming support for in vitro fertilization, conservative politicians have tried to distance themselves from the ruling.
The hosts discuss that political scramble and ask whether the Republicans have made up their minds over what it means to be “pro-life.” The hosts also consider how much public opinion should influence the decisions of lawmakers and judges, and where the debate over reproductive rights is headed.
Plus, listeners weigh in on how much the economy is going to affect their vote.
(A full transcript of this audio essay will be available within 24 hours of publication on the Times website.)
Mentioned in this episode:
• The Alabama Supreme Court’s ruling (publicportal-api.alappeals.go...) that frozen embryos should be considered children
Thoughts about the show? Email us at matterofopinion@nytimes.com. And tell us your thoughts on where you think the abortion debate is headed by leaving a voicemail at (212) 556-7440.
To Ross's point at the end about justices/judges not stepping outside their lane - so invoking "the wrath of a holy God" in written opinion is not judicial activism? Ross, we need Christians like you to stridently oppose this wave of Frankenchristianity that is making a bid for ending pluralistic democracy as we know it through inflaming wedge issues like this. Don't fall for it, and use your platform to help stop others from falling for it. For democracy's sake.
My wife and I had a child using IVF six years ago. We had left-over embryos. My wife, who is not religious and claims not to see them as children, nevertheless cannot let go of them. We have paid to store them for the last six years, because those embryos have such a strong emotional tug on her. Now suddenly, it’s murder if we were to ever stop storing them.
Frozen embryos aren't children. Shouldn't get overly attached to Biological scrap.
Why I would never compromise with the fundamentalists.
Many people use verbal BS to get political support without actually believing what they profess and therefore think and possibly hope their words will result in no change. But all words, thoughts, and actions have consequences.
Im my opinion, the line between Church and State is fading away. Pregnancy is very unpredictable and sometimes needs intervention weither its an abortion to save the mom or an early birth by C section. Its a crazy thing and i feel like the mother should have the say regardless on what happens.
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Tho i feel like that birth control and other contraceptions are gonna be targeted next.
As soon as Ross brings up late term abortion which isn’t a real thing, the whole podcast loses its validity. None of the others call him out on it. Do better NYT.
I thought that, too. What does he think he’s referring to - or do you think he knows it’s not a real thing?
as a catholic-highschool student I literally studied for this
So these couples did this for $$, now look what your greed did.
You guys report the so-called "facts" of this case so nonchalantly. When I heard that a patient has wandered into a storage area and dropped eggs on the floor, my first thought was, "That's utter bullshit and this is one of those made-up cases designed to go to the Supreme Court." (Like the baker who claimed she had a right to refuse gay customers, although she had neither customers nor, as it turned out, a bakery!)
Also, the Alabama ruling is the "logical" conclusion to the religious belief that the Christian God breathes a soul into a fertilized egg (i.e., a human being is created at the moment of conception).
Of course, none of that MATTERS.
No entity--human, religious, nor governmental--has the right to commandeer the human body, nor any part thereof. If I need a kidney to save my life and you have a compatible one, I can't force you to give it to me, even if I will not survive your refusal. Each person is the owner of his or her own body--including all PARTS of it--and exercises the ultimate decision power over what can be done with it.
That is the only fact germane to the discussion of abortion. Concerning IVF, the defendants already proved that the embryos are not viable outside the human body. To call them "children" is ridiculous, of course, but to label their inadvertent destruction anything more than a misdemeanor--like a speeding ticket--is nonsense.
Clearly, these justices have allowed their religious views to run away with their common sense, or anything they ever might have known about the law, an they should be impeached and removed from the bench.
Honest question: Why should anyone (who doesn't think that frozen embryos count as children) care about how many embryos are kept on ice? Ross' concern about limiting the number of frozen embryos took me by surprise, and it wasn't explained.
And sorry, I forgot to add: I really enjoyed the podcast! Keep up the good work!
The story about the embryos being dropped by a wandering patient is the only story I've heard so far. Is there some other version of the events circulating?
I did however have the same knee jerk reaction that you did in immediately assuming that this case was tailor made for a run at the State or US Supreme Court. If nothing else, I'm assuming that we'll eventually learn that some Heritage Foundation backed law group was circling like vultures just waiting for the perfect mishap to present itself and then conveniently offered the victimized families their services for free.
@@BrianSweeney1985, no, I haven't seen any competing narrative. But knowing the way these embryos are stored, it's beyond belief that a patient was wandering around and knocked over a tray of eggs! Some intrepid reporter needs to look into that story, because my bullshit detector sounds like red alert on the USS Enterprise! 😁
My understanding of Douthat’s position is that people should make efforts to “make” only the embryos they reasonably expect to need so that there aren’t a bunch of embryos in frozen storage indefinitely.
I don’t know if he thinks the embryos should count as children, but he does think they count as human life & should be treated with care.
@@kicsms_science3729, Okay, thanks. That may be why I didn't get it: to me, they're just cells unless or until they're implanted. (And even then, they need to "catch.")
@kicsms_science3729 However he seems to have no understanding of the process whatsoever. A big reason for creating multiple fertilized eggs is that not all of them are equally viable. The ones that have the strongest chance of actually developing into a full term baby will be selected to be implanted.
It’s not feasible to do it one at a time because harvesting the eggs requires a long and expensive process of hormone treatment and then an expensive and painful procedure that is hard on the woman’s body. This is a process that is already unaffordable for most people and making it more complicated simply restricts it to a much smaller, more wealthy group.
Where is Michelle
Ross, come on... I can hear the cynicism and purposeful ignorance in your voice. Try being real with yourself.