Tom Friedman supported the war in Iraq because he said the United States would bring democracy to Iraq. Just keep that mind when he predicts the future.
@Aan_allein they democratically asked the US to kindly get the fuck out of Iraq after assassinating Soleimani and yet they're still in there. I guess you're not wrong, that is America's definition of democracy, partial occupation
"Netanyahu's life mission was to prove that he can have normalisation with the Arab world without anything for the Palestinians, that he could have his 'normalisation cake' and eat the Palestinians as well. And my response was, you are like a man, who's saying he's adding muscle everywhere, but still has a stomach cancer" 👏
As someone who was born and grew up in Israel, I have never heard a westerner (or even a local on either side) displaying such a deep, wide, rounded, wholesome and nuanced understanding of the conflict.
He wrote “From Beirut to Lebanon” about the Israeli occupation of S. Lebanon. It’s a must read for anyone who wants to understand how to operate in the M.E.
I mean Israel simply doesn't belong in Palestine -- let all our super-wealthy one-percenter Zionist Americans create New Israel out of Germany, Poland, Ukraine, and Russia! Why should Palestinians pay for European crimes???
Tom Friedman has had a finger on the pulse of Israel and the wider Mid-East over the past decades that I have been reading his opinion columns. He has been totally right on all his predictions. He really tells it like it is.
And, incidentally, I have visited Israel, Egypt, & Jordan many times over a 20-year period and have, I believe, a pretty ok idea of how the people feel on the ground.
Dear world. You can criticize Israel’s apartheid and still not support terrorism against civilians. The two thoughts can be held in your head simultaneously. If it’s big enough.
How is it "apartheid"? Arabs in Israel vote, have their own homes wherever they want to live, etc. Lazy bumper sticker phrases are not a sign of analysis.
*"I'm looking for the least bad that buys the most time"* The most sane thing anyone on either side of the debate has said about the conflict yet. Sick and dead tired of the juvenile ideologues on both sides and their insane pursuit of absolute solutions. Solutions do not exist for issues like this because they are almost always predicated on reimagining the past. You cannot change the past because physics. Instead, there are only tradeoffs. Show me a path forward where neither side is particularly happy, but each side can live with, and that is probably the one that may have a chance.
I’m very much a supporter of one side in this conflict but there’s no way around it: your comment is completely accurate and should be the guiding principle in addressing the situation in Israel/Gaza/the West Bank.
These people make the conversation about war sound thoughtful and palatable as though they are sharing brunch around a beautiful marble kitchen counter. The war is serious, "slightly" terrifying,.. segue to Halloween horror movie fun!
Actually, if more of us were capable of either generating or following this type of discussion, there might be fewer atrocities in the world. It’s a shame that more people aren’t saying similar things to what Friedman is saying. And it’s a greater shame that those who do aren’t getting their voices amplified and are not being paid attention. Would you be happier if they were foaming at the mouth and screaming at each other. Would it be gratified if Douthat were to brandish his knotty staff or terrible swift sword as he thundered in THE LORD’s name?
No, I found it palatable to a comfortable life. I thought he was expressing a healthy critical view. But his adamant point about protesting Israel's settlements and not one more brick...is somewhat out of sync or incongruent, as the tanks and missiles rain down on Palestinians. Its a reality distortion. Israel is not overzealously "building", its much worse. Vengeance and fury, killing and bombing as bad as Syria, as bad as Putin invading Ukraine. The Israeli's have killed as many or more Palestinian civilians in response to the initial recent terrorist attack by Hamas@@joepanzica
Lots of us live comfortable lives without contributing as much to both public and elite understanding. BUT...I hear you and sympathize. But Friedman's take has much to recommend it in that it is expressed palatably to a wide range of people who might be open to persuasion. -- Yes, it is rather a bit removed from the frenzy, but, in this case, it is not a fault but an asset to the cause of peace. His view, overall, is well grounded in all kinds of facts and nuance that most of us are not well versed with. Also, I note the passion in his voice when he says, "Not one more brick. Not one more nail." (Even if he were being hypocritical, it is still a useful thing to say and to hear. ) Focusing on the back-and-forth atrocities can inflame passions, making realistic, concrete steps toward peace ever more difficult. In fact, on that level, there is near parity between those in Israel who work so hard to torpedo any peace process and those among the Palestinians who do the same. In terms of atrocities, there is a real temptation to take sides and say which is more vicious, irresponsible, cruel, and counterproductive. But that is a vile temptation from all kinds of viewpoints, incl uding that which puts infinite, incomparable value on any human life. Following the line of argument about which side is worse also feeds into the agendas of those who only want vengeance or who want to keep the region unstable for various geopolitical ends. @@ArtOlson2008
Life is cheap in this Universe and human life is cheapest of all. If ever an animal needed a predator it would be humans. We are our own predator but not doing a good enough job of bringing about extinction. @@joepanzica
This "morally impossible situation" is one of Netanyahu's creation. The Two State Solution was THE cornerstone of Israeli-Palestinian relations for multiple administrations, but it effectively died with the election of Netanyahu. Not only did he insist on expanding Jewish settlements in the West Bank (even through violent, anti-Palestinian means), but the ghettoization of smaller and smaller cantons of Palestinians was achieved through the use of walled highways with apartheid lanes. Not only are Palestinian lands not contiguous between Gaza and the West Bank, the Palestinian controlled territories within the West Bank are basically tiny prison islands in a sea of armed settler controlled territory. He has basically committed to a policy of generational dispossession of the Palestinians in the West Bank and the radicalization of Palestinians in the brutalized, open air prison of Gaza. His policies made this expression of anticolonial violence inevitable. Again, it is a tragedy and the actors that carried out this massacre should, rightly, be condemned with the strongest language. But his actions made any other outcome impossible. When folks ask me "what is Israel supposed to do?", my response is generally "dude, you fucked up a long time ago".
I agree with everything you said, but I'd like to suggest giving a different answer when asked what Israel is supposed to do. Maybe give an answer that will make them think, like, "They should stop oppressing the Palestinians and let them have their own state." Just a suggestion.
@@Guerita72 Yeah. Thing is, folks don't see a connection and are not in an emotional space where they will allow a connection to be made. I get that. Emotions are raw. I am mostly trying to break it down in baby steps for folks. This explosion of violence is the logical conclusion of 16 years of action meeting inevitable consequence. The time to ask "what am I supposed to do" was 16 years ago and many points in between. Acting like it is some sort of impossible moral quandary now is a bit like asking how you are going to pay for all the flood damage after you chopped down all the mangrove trees 16 years ago.
This is just peak gaslighting. Yasser Arafat was given very generous two state proposals, but he refused each without counteroffer, and then launched a multi-year stream of terrorist attacks. It was Arafat who killed the two state solution.
In May 1948, immediately after the Jewish leaders in the British Mandate of Palestine have realized the UN’s 1947 decision, which called for the establishment of a Jewish an an Arab states on this land, the armies of all of the newborn Israeli state have invaded it, even though at this point in time Israel did not occupy even one centimetre of the West Bank (Israel’s war of independence). Why did they (the Arab neighbours) do so (invaded Israel)?
The jihadists aren't interested in freedom, you dupe. They are interested in building a totalitarian Islamist state and wiping the Jews off the map. If you think this is a land dispute land, you're woefully ignorant. It's about a death cult wanting to destory a modern technological, advanced civilization. That is the world ISIS and Hamas want to build. If you evade that obvious fact, you are choosing to ignore reality.
Tom "Six More Months" Friedman. I realized a long time ago that he and most other pundits don't know appreciably more than what you learn on the evening news.
Israeli here. Thank you tom I agree 100 percent. I’ll also add that Bibi is finished here. We might actually have an Israeli government that would stop the crazy dumb thing that is the settlement movement
Thanks for your perspective. As an American, I sadly have to say that we r generally uninformed as to many of what is happening in the Middle East. Most Americans opinion on Israel versus Palestinians centers almost exclusively on whether they r liberal or conservative with little or no appreciation on what the important issues and controversies are
It is too late unfortunately -- There are already 700,000 settlers in the west bank. These are enough to the kill the hope for a Palestinian state @@jcc152509
We need ‘Enlightened’ leaders ( in this whole conflict) who are not corrupt and truly have the needs of their people at heart. Enlightened leaders who can see the BIGGER BROADER PICTURE FROM BOTH SIDES, and understand the ROOTS of this tragic problem. It appears to me that deep unacknowledged Palestinian wounds, dispossession have been simmering and boiling and boiling and simmering for over 70 years. Both sides need to acknowledge each other’s deep grievances, viewpoints and come up with a ‘NEW VISION’. War and killing do not solve anything. They only foster more hatred, violence, aggression in new generations fuelled with the same prejudices, rage, hatred and intolerances of their fathers.
@@KJ-yises I don’t know any at this stage but we can dream. If an enlightened Leader existed, he would give us Hope, and a Positive Vision for Real and Lasting Peace in the Middle East
...hard for me to accept that of all the security apparatus in Israel, which is almost exclusively pointed at Hamas, totally missed this, which beggs other questions...
Reductionist thought isn't productive. The world is a rich and complex place. Conspiracies are merely the feeble minded grasping, rather than enjoying life.
Listening to the description of the invasion, I was struck by the denial of reality of the people living in freedom so close to what was called an open air prison, enjoying the peace until it ended.
They've lived there since the 40's and 50's when Gaza hasn't even been occupied by Israel at all. They've been suffering rocket attacks since the 2000's and continued to suffer constant rockets after Israel pulled out from Gaza completely in 2005. A few years ago Hamas started sending fire balloons across the border to burn the Israeli agricultural fields, belonging to those same people. A large portion of the people who've lived there are left leaning, peace-supporting Israelis, some people who were kidnapped were literal peace activists, Vivian Silver helped people in Gaza enter Israel for medical treatment. Before the Hamas rise to power and the consequent blockade there were actually Gazans working in the area regularly in agriculture and construction etc. because the salaries in Israel are way higher. There was recognized shared humanity and at least a semblance of trust. Aren't you the one denying reality?
You are very deluded. Those lands are not Israeli lands and already had Palestinians living on them for hundreds of years. It was the Jews that were the refugees, taken in by the Arabs as they had nowhere to go, but then they began to murder and steal the land from the Arabs and that has continued to this day. Those fields you talk about belonged to the Palestinians and where the kibbutzes were builit, there were over five hundred Palestinian villages which the Israelis destroyed and expelled, imprisoned, and murdered the Palestinians that had been living there. Get your facts straight. @@Colleepoly3975
Friedman has never been better than he has been in his recent columns, every word hits home with the thud of sense. He is also expressing what I hope will become mainstream American policy, and what the American Jewish community can offer to help Israel by way of tough love, and there is no other love worth giving in this crisis.
@@mendoza4789 I was just talking about his most recent columns not every word he’s written for the last thirty years. Nor was anyone else commenting here. If you disagree with what he said in this podcast that’s the relevant conversation to have
@@markacohen1 credability is paramount. neo cons have not been punished for thier wars that cost us 8 trillion and countless lives in the mideast. far from being punished their power has grown. friedman is exhibit a
friedman cries about the state of the world for his grandaughter (born into wealth btw). what role did neo libs like friedman play in our current state. the iraq war being a huge factor
@@mendoza4789 well the discussion here was about the current situation, I like most commenters below find Friedman a voice of sanity. What do you think about what he actually wrote? And for the record, I give credit to Biden for realizing that they’d all made a terrible mistake and urging Obama to get out of the wars when he was VP and finally pulling the plug when he was in office even if it was badly executed. That may not be radical enough for you but we have an election next year and it’s Biden or armageddon like it or not. I m a Bernie guy but look around at the left in the other Western Democracies, infighting and fielding too far left candidates destroyed us. Israel is a whole other story Hamas’s bombing campaign in the 90s and the second Intifada drove the country to the Right and wiped out the Left.
Well that was a super interesting podcast! And that's coming from someone who is not very sympathetic to the Israeli perspective on the long-lasting conflict (for what it's worth i'm not American either so bear with European me). I so wish we'd listen more to the people out there, whatever their side, who are helping us be more intelligent and sane, and less to those who want to dumb us down. As the interviewee very eloquently said "I'm trying to make a difference, not a point". Thanks a lot NYT !
I, like almost all Americans, do not know enough about the Israeli-Palestinian dilemma. Please explain why you do do think Friedman offers an honest & correct assessment of Israeli Prime Minister?
I STAND WITH ISRAEL, BEST OPTION IS EUROPE ESPECIALLY ENGLAND AND GERMANY SHOULD TAKE ALL PALESTINIANS, AS THEY HAVE PLENTY OF LAND AND FOOD, BECAUSE NOW "JEWS" ARE GONE, THESE PEOPLE ARE "WILD WEST" OBLIGATION
13:00 > Q: political hard shift right 13:21 Tom Friedman answers.... 13:34 "under one condition.... 14:15 ... BUT I fxxxxxxg Will NOT Do That..." well said !
This was a very enjoyable discussion, and I am surprised at my saying that. I'm not a particular fan of Tom Friedman, mainly because he hasn't really been correct about a damned thing in the last 20+ years yet he is still held up as some oracle. Nonetheless, he seemed pretty on point and tied to reality and, just as importantly, intellectually honest on this talk. Well done.
One has to wonder just why such wise men are discounted and ignored by modern society? With all of the Palestinian/Israeli hate that has become mainstream these last few weeks, what is to become of us???
Peace is not on the charter that founded Israel. That is the problem. Genocide was a foundation stone and pillar of Zionitism. How do you change an engine on an aircraft in flight? Netanyahu is no mechanic for this.
Tom has known EVERYONE important in Israeli politics, for 30 yrs. He's right about BiBi's incompetent politicians. Tom gave solutions. You didn't. Then you attacked Tom. Your attack shows your goal is to hurt others, not to protect Israel. Your "thinking" will ensure NO PEACE & no solution.
How can the interviewer even think that Hamas wanted to govern Gaza in a normal way? They turned it into an offence oriented military camp. And the whole world supported them.
There is no moral ambiguity for normal human beings with functioning common sense. The moral dilemma comes as a result of us completely losing our moral footing and deforming our minds enough to think subjugation, occupation, genocide, and ethnic cleansing can sometimes be ok. The Palestinians have won the philosophical war long ago and we LOST. We dismally and hopelessly lost.
I have noticed that many mainstream media outlets and social platforms have avoided directly commenting on these issues. Facebook has recently banned and blocked a lot of speech relevant to Netanyahu. The NYT is incredibly brave to maintain an incisive and prescient insight into these controversial and chaotic events. Respect!
dude... try to leave any critical comments at their website it has been years since they accepted any comments for me i come here to give them a piece of mind cheers
as lovely and vaguely revealing (there are a few prejudices on display) as this laid-back discussion of death and destruction is, if you are truly interested in trying to grasp why the Middle East has become the realm of the merchants of death (they are the ones who profit most from any conflict; indeed they foment them) that it has become, *in my opinion* you can do no better than to find Robert Fisk's "The Great War for Civilization: The Conquest of the Middle East". it's exhaustive and detailed, but worth the trouble.
It's refreshing to hear Tom Friedman say "not one brick, not one nail." But I have a question for him: When he says "a two state solution," what does he mean? A truly sovereign Palestinian state, just as Israel is a sovereign state, with its own armed forces, its own foreign policy, and free travel between Gaza and the West Bank? In other words, two EQUAL states, with equal rights to self-determination? If he does, more power to him. But I strongly doubt that even a center-left coalition Israeli government would agree to it, because it would feel too threatened by an armed Palestinian state. And perhaps they would be correct, because many contentious issues would remain unsolved, from settlers' refusal to relocate to Israel, to Palestinian demands for the right of return. Counterintuitively, I believe Jewish Israelis (let us not forget 20% of Israelis are Arabs) would be safer is a single democratic state encompassing the West Bank, Israel, and the Gaza strip, with equal rights for all, the right for anyone to live where they chose, no more Aliyah or Arab immigration, and an integrated army. Jewish Israelis would have a homeland without the need for a Jewish state, and Palestinians would be able to live in THEIR ancestral homeland. Surveys show that most Palestinians are perfectly willing to live in peace next door to Jews. My local cafe owner, a Palestinian, certainly is. The same, alas, cannot be said of all Israeli Jews, but attitudes can change: look at South Africa. This may seem an over-idealistic solution, but I think it is the only practical and logical one. It is what a visiting Martian would propose. There are currently millions of Jews and millions of Arabs in what has historically been called Palestine. None of them are going anywhere; even if they wanted to, who would take them in? Together, they would form the most educated, most democratic, most prosperous country in the Middle East.
I totally agree with every word you wrote. What a relief to at last find an intelligent post! I would only add that in such a state, any hate ideology, writing, speech etc ought to be punished with utmost severity.
The true meaning of Palestine is all the land of Israel without any Jew, Hamas is Palestine! From the river to the sea there won't be one Jew free, and almost all Palestinian support him. We, Israelis, finally get it right...
Tom Friedman is fantastic to have on, to clarify the issues. He's a world-recognized expert in the area & issues, and most importantly he says the cold hard truth without trying to soften the blow. An amazing communicator who adroitly explained the core issues.
He is a shill for Israel. His pro Israel stance disqualifies him from having a balanced viewpoint on this conflict. He spews Hasbara propaganda. #BDS And don't forget folks: Israel facilitated the creation of Hamas. Israel is a walking human rights violation.
Next: Listen to Prof. Yuval Noah Harari's comments. He is an Israeli professor of history, and he is an international best-selling author on human civilizations. His books have sold over 35 million copies in 65 languages, and he is considered one of the world’s most influential public intellectuals today. His take is similar to Mr. Friedman's, but he has a very personal perspective.
This is a great episode. Tom Friedman is such a smart and experienced observer of the Middle East. He's absolutely right that Israel is in an impossible moral position right now. But that's the difficulty you walk into when you you take over a region and then oppress the existing population for 75 years.
Great talk, even though need to say that there where so many self contradictory things in what Mr.Friedman was saying, but I guess it's just the very nature of this very conflict & what the heck is a perfect war, can people remind me of one perfect war that was fought in last seventy years, may be there were some, but i really don't think there is a thing called a perfect war.
@@jcc152509 I don't think my friend, even though I am not capable of nor it would be right of me in saying much in this matter as I am not dealing with this matter first hand, but I can certainly say that It's a very complex scenario and from the distance I am seeing it I think it would be really easy to blame one or other party solely for this mess but remember what's easy may not always be right & the solution to this problem will not come from easy but from the very difficult process of understanding each other and negotiating with each other fairly and the first step would to owning up to your own mistakes by every party.
@@siddhubabaji This isn't feasible. Israel has all of the power and controls the narrative. They engage in a carte blanche fashion, are an illegal military occupier, and are hell bent on beating the collective life out of Palestinians. If you cage people, starve them, mentally, physically, emotionally abuse, and terrorize them, take their land, use Israeli military courts, create an open air prison and an Apartheid system, have jew only roads, surveil them like they are all criminals, raise their homes, burn their olive tree farms, kill them, control their resources, disallow everyday products products from being allowed into Gaza, limit their access to electricity, raze their homes, evict them from homes, engage in forcible transfers, severely limit their movement, bully, allow IDF forces to permit illegal settlers(hilltop jews) to engage acts of terror, threaten to destroy the Dome of Rock, imprison innocent Palestinians, house children in detention centers, and show utter disregard for their lives. BN said that Israel was going to take all of Judea and Samaria in late 2022 on Twitter. Israel is reaping what they sow.
It seems to be a matter of complete indifference to these guys that they just printed a lie on the front page of their newspaper, based on a report by a gang of murderous animals.
Thank You Tom Friedman for speaking up on halting all settlements and the US taxpayer money/ weapons support package. I hope the Senators listen to this - a reasonable request.
I don’t support Bibi, but you need to be more than cynical to say he aided Hamas to use as a tool against Biden. Also, you guys spend too much time in the intro slapping each other on the back.
Love how fearless and fair Friedman is. One of the few I know who talks about the conflict with a deep well of knowledge, nuance, yet compassionate detachment.
Tom's analysis is always after the fact✌️ remind him of selling the war on iraq..he will block u was he selling us here another on behalf of Israel? After inciting for war on Iraq.. i can stand hearing him honestly be careful what he sells let us hope we are not dragged into a war that we have no bone into I'm afraid that is too late cheers
12:40 I saw that video of the Dr. literally chasing D Suliman, by clapping his hands at her the entire time, like you would shoo a dog, off of the hospital grounds as she attempted to talk to a patient (who also was telling her that she was bothering her and her family). It was something to see~! He was yelling and shooing at her like this until she was practically out of sight~!!
Although Ed Witten is scary smart my favorite alum because he is both wise and scary smart is Tom Friedman. This podcast was extraordinary. When I was a grad student "From Beruit to Jerusalem" was not only considered required reading for IR/Politics but close to the canonical voice and explanation of that fustercluk the Levant.
Do you also understand how Americans think? I've heard Americans think that brown people are less human. Is that true? What's a good book that explains how Americans think? @@aquilajedi
Sounds like you’re into oversimplified narratives. If that helps you understand the world - more power to you!❤ As far as a book that might help you better understand Americans that’s a tough one. We completely change 180 in temperament and character every 15-20 years so it is much harder to lock down.
Not oversimplified , but one who cannot see the forest from the trees would say that. Also de Tocqueville is still an excellent read about americans and it is 150 years old. I do agree that one thing has changed since Beirut to Jerusalem was written agewise the Israel/Palestine conflict is the equivalent age as the US /Native american conflicts were in 1950 or the US civil war was in 1940. Even if you are 100% pro palestine at some point you have to recognize that it was your grand parents or great grand parents who's land was stolen. No one wants to hear about genocides from 100 years ago. Not the armenian, not the holocaust, not what the japanese did to the interns in the Philippines and not to the Palestinians. Israel, however evil and distasteful to some, exists and is not going away. And thanks to all of the wars and conflict they have the best cyber tech in the world. The harder you fight the stronger they keep getting. Palestine and the palestinians have been egregiously wronged. So were the Carthaginian's, the Vietnamese, the irish, the poles, the druids, the Mensheviks, the Egyptians, the Inuit, the Aztecs, the Incas, the Hawaiians, the Phillipino's and thousands of other peoples. Duly noted, time to move on.
No mention of US veto of UN ceasefire resolution. In other words, US again in support of using military force rather than diplomacy and comfortable risking escalation. Just like our Ukraine policy.
@@ChannelMath Yes, exactly! Quoting Biden when asking for more Ukrainian and Israeli aid, he said it was for "Equipment that defends America and is made in America." He's literally rationalizing and applauding support for the military industrial complex!
However things go, Gaza has a population of 2.3 million people squeezed into a tiny slice of worn out desert that probably couldn’t feed 23,000 people. As global warming and global conflicts worsen and agricultural production is further disrupted, will the world continue to send food to Gaza?
This checks the boxes: knowledge, understanding, sanity, humanity, and he's not here to tell you what you want to hear--unless what you want is the strong sauce.
So from both Palestinian and pro-Israeli friends I have a common consensus that a two-state solution is dead. And has been for long time. From the Israeli perspective, as Friedman said, the Palestinian government is too corrupt, inept, and such as state would be a security risk. From the Palestinian side, they say any so-called Palestinian state would have to make so many concessions to the hugely powerful partner state that essentially would be castrated right from the start. It would also be utterly fragmented to make a viable state. So how about a single federated state on the line of let's say, Canada where you have powerful self run provinces and a federal government that does stuff like military, foreign affairs, and so on. Canada has the province of Quebec, a French speaking and culture-based, Roman catholic society with laws based on juridical legal system under which civil matters are regulated by French-heritage civil law. Other provinces are English speaking and British culture-based, mostly Protestant society with laws based on the British Common law. This system has worked well and keep peace between the two societies very well. So Friedman followers, what do you think ?
I'm not Friedman's follower, but if you learn about Arabs, Jews, Muslim Brotherhood members and all their unadulterated history, this seems an utopia. Extremists won't allow it to happen (mostly islamic, with small minority of ultra-orthodx Jews). If extremists were removed, sure it's the best solution. Second best is two-state solution, again, without extremists as they'll never agree, and never wanted a modern state in the first place. They don't even care about lives of Palestinians, none. However if two-state - or Palestinian state were established, 'castration' of Palestinian international ambitions is not the worst case scenario. They do want an Arab league, an empire of fundamentalist Islam. Most do anyways. Vague parralel: if you want to free a serial-rapist, would castration be the price or you trust him on some grounds he'll not do it again?
I think Israel has a lot to think about like: How do they get out of Gaza? Before they march into Gaza. Everyone in Israel, down to the dog catcher, has to know what their exit strategy for Gaza is before they go into Gaza. That is their national security job 1.
This is more serious than simply "getting out of Gaza". They can continue bombing Gaza to smithereens and then leave. They haven't explained their REAL goals (because it's horrendous). Netanyahu's govt is bombing everywhere - which means they don't care if THEIR BOMBS kill the hostages! Netanyahu's Minister of Defense (the guy who called all Gazans "ANIMALS") turned the IDF into an unprofessional politicized military (which explains their bravado & failures to heed Egypt's warning).
@@keep-ukraine-free There hasn’t been this many Jews killed in one day since the Waffen SS. This is incredibly serious business. I totally agree with you.
You know, I understand that both Israel and Hamas have been bad guys, but I always go back to the reason why the Palestinians are so angry with Israel. The displacement, the violence, and the terrible, unjust treatment by Israel toward Palestinians can not be overlooked as the fundamental reason for the conflict. If I'm wrong about that I'm sure Tom Friedman can school me, but I'll never talk to him, so 🤷🏻♀️.
In May 1948, immediately after the Jewish leaders in the British Mandate of Palestine have realized the UN’s 1947 decision, which called for the establishment of a Jewish and an Arab states on this land, the armies of all of the newborn Israeli state have invaded it, even though at this point in time Israel did not occupy even one centimeter of the West Bank (Israel’s war of independence). Why did they (the Arab neighbors) do so (invaded Israel)?
You leftist types are a big part of the problem. The original Arab war of annihilation, mass murders of civilians and rejection of Israeli offers for peace, which are documented and can't be denied by Israeli/Jew haters, are the reason right wingers like Sharon and Netanyahu defeat moderates. Winston Churchill, 1922 in his book A Peace To End All Peace: ”The Arabs would have sat in the dark forever had not the Zionist engineers harnessed the Jordan river for electrification. Now they swarm into Palestine seeking the light.”
@@johnsmith100that didn't happen. They created an ethnostate from the beginning and also violently displaced the Palestinians, which is how you end up with hundreds of thousands of refugees in Gaza. This information is everywhere
Thanks for speaking the truth. Why do we go "wow" when we hear someone speaking the truth? Because we've been trained to follow and swallow the narrative; the spin. Refreshing and important!
The problem with these commentators is they still don’t understand and can’t comprehend the complexity of when Muslims die defending his land and struggle against occupation, they truly believe they are going to heaven. It’s not that they celebrate death but death when defending their land/house and against oppression.
Tom Friedman supported the war in Iraq because he said the United States would bring democracy to Iraq. Just keep that mind when he predicts the future.
Iraq has a democracy. But as we saw in Egypt and Tunisia, Arabs vote like retards.
Yeah it sounds like he learned from that, did you actually listen? His takes were some of the most reasonble I've heard so far.
Democracy did come to Iraq
@Aan_allein they democratically asked the US to kindly get the fuck out of Iraq after assassinating Soleimani and yet they're still in there. I guess you're not wrong, that is America's definition of democracy, partial occupation
I didn't hear him predict the future.
Excellent. Thank you very much
Thank you!!! Friedman!!! Settlements need to stop!!
I appreciate Friedman’s honesty. Listen up President Biden.
"Netanyahu's life mission was to prove that he can have normalisation with the Arab world without anything for the Palestinians, that he could have his 'normalisation cake' and eat the Palestinians as well. And my response was, you are like a man, who's saying he's adding muscle everywhere, but still has a stomach cancer" 👏
Bravo!!!!
If Bibi and his current boobs stays in power then Israel should stop calling itself a functional democracy
Good afternoon from the beautiful SF Bay Area. Thank you for this deep insightful conversation.
As someone who was born and grew up in Israel, I have never heard a westerner (or even a local on either side) displaying such a deep, wide, rounded, wholesome and nuanced understanding of the conflict.
Israel is a rogue Apartheid state. #BDS
He wrote “From Beirut to Lebanon” about the Israeli occupation of S. Lebanon. It’s a must read for anyone who wants to understand how to operate in the M.E.
I mean Israel simply doesn't belong in Palestine -- let all our super-wealthy one-percenter Zionist Americans create New Israel out of Germany, Poland, Ukraine, and Russia! Why should Palestinians pay for European crimes???
Tom Friedman has had a finger on the pulse of Israel and the wider Mid-East over the past decades that I have been reading his opinion columns. He has been totally right on all his predictions. He really tells it like it is.
And, incidentally, I have visited Israel, Egypt, & Jordan many times over a 20-year period and have, I believe, a pretty ok idea of how the people feel on the ground.
Dear world. You can criticize Israel’s apartheid and still not support terrorism against civilians. The two thoughts can be held in your head simultaneously.
If it’s big enough.
LOL Terrorism has been the Zionist m.o. even before there was a State of Israel.
But keep playing dumb for the dumb and ignorant.
How is it "apartheid"? Arabs in Israel vote, have their own homes wherever they want to live, etc. Lazy bumper sticker phrases are not a sign of analysis.
Aint apartheid!!! Just for FYI. If it were, palestinians could not vote, or practice their religion. Good refutations must upset you!!!
The smartest comment I've seen in a LONG time, I will use that .
You can criticize Israel's actions without dumbing down the situation to loaded words that distort history and reality
Very good conversation.
*"I'm looking for the least bad that buys the most time"*
The most sane thing anyone on either side of the debate has said about the conflict yet. Sick and dead tired of the juvenile ideologues on both sides and their insane pursuit of absolute solutions. Solutions do not exist for issues like this because they are almost always predicated on reimagining the past. You cannot change the past because physics. Instead, there are only tradeoffs. Show me a path forward where neither side is particularly happy, but each side can live with, and that is probably the one that may have a chance.
I’m very much a supporter of one side in this conflict but there’s no way around it: your comment is completely accurate and should be the guiding principle in addressing the situation in Israel/Gaza/the West Bank.
These people make the conversation about war sound thoughtful and palatable as though they are sharing brunch around a beautiful marble kitchen counter. The war is serious, "slightly" terrifying,.. segue to Halloween horror movie fun!
This is how the upper crust views everyone below them and they expect us to lap it up.
Actually, if more of us were capable of either generating or following this type of discussion, there might be fewer atrocities in the world. It’s a shame that more people aren’t saying similar things to what Friedman is saying. And it’s a greater shame that those who do aren’t getting their voices amplified and are not being paid attention.
Would you be happier if they were foaming at the mouth and screaming at each other. Would it be gratified if Douthat were to brandish his knotty staff or terrible swift sword as he thundered in THE LORD’s name?
No, I found it palatable to a comfortable life. I thought he was expressing a healthy critical view. But his adamant point about protesting Israel's settlements and not one more brick...is somewhat out of sync or incongruent, as the tanks and missiles rain down on Palestinians. Its a reality distortion. Israel is not overzealously "building", its much worse. Vengeance and fury, killing and bombing as bad as Syria, as bad as Putin invading Ukraine. The Israeli's have killed as many or more Palestinian civilians in response to the initial recent terrorist attack by Hamas@@joepanzica
Lots of us live comfortable lives without contributing as much to both public and elite understanding. BUT...I hear you and sympathize. But Friedman's take has much to recommend it in that it is expressed palatably to a wide range of people who might be open to persuasion. -- Yes, it is rather a bit removed from the frenzy, but, in this case, it is not a fault but an asset to the cause of peace. His view, overall, is well grounded in all kinds of facts and nuance that most of us are not well versed with. Also, I note the passion in his voice when he says, "Not one more brick. Not one more nail." (Even if he were being hypocritical, it is still a useful thing to say and to hear. )
Focusing on the back-and-forth atrocities can inflame passions, making realistic, concrete steps toward peace ever more difficult. In fact, on that level, there is near parity between those in Israel who work so hard to torpedo any peace process and those among the Palestinians who do the same. In terms of atrocities, there is a real temptation to take sides and say which is more vicious, irresponsible, cruel, and counterproductive. But that is a vile temptation from all kinds of viewpoints, incl
uding that which puts infinite, incomparable value on any human life. Following the line of argument about which side is worse also feeds into the agendas of those who only want vengeance or who want to keep the region unstable for various geopolitical ends. @@ArtOlson2008
Life is cheap in this Universe and human life is cheapest of all. If ever an animal needed a predator it would be humans. We are our own predator but not doing a good enough job of bringing about extinction. @@joepanzica
So agree with TF! Thx!
This "morally impossible situation" is one of Netanyahu's creation.
The Two State Solution was THE cornerstone of Israeli-Palestinian relations for multiple administrations, but it effectively died with the election of Netanyahu. Not only did he insist on expanding Jewish settlements in the West Bank (even through violent, anti-Palestinian means), but the ghettoization of smaller and smaller cantons of Palestinians was achieved through the use of walled highways with apartheid lanes. Not only are Palestinian lands not contiguous between Gaza and the West Bank, the Palestinian controlled territories within the West Bank are basically tiny prison islands in a sea of armed settler controlled territory. He has basically committed to a policy of generational dispossession of the Palestinians in the West Bank and the radicalization of Palestinians in the brutalized, open air prison of Gaza.
His policies made this expression of anticolonial violence inevitable. Again, it is a tragedy and the actors that carried out this massacre should, rightly, be condemned with the strongest language. But his actions made any other outcome impossible.
When folks ask me "what is Israel supposed to do?", my response is generally "dude, you fucked up a long time ago".
I agree with everything you said, but I'd like to suggest giving a different answer when asked what Israel is supposed to do. Maybe give an answer that will make them think, like, "They should stop oppressing the Palestinians and let them have their own state." Just a suggestion.
@@Guerita72 Yeah. Thing is, folks don't see a connection and are not in an emotional space where they will allow a connection to be made. I get that. Emotions are raw.
I am mostly trying to break it down in baby steps for folks. This explosion of violence is the logical conclusion of 16 years of action meeting inevitable consequence. The time to ask "what am I supposed to do" was 16 years ago and many points in between. Acting like it is some sort of impossible moral quandary now is a bit like asking how you are going to pay for all the flood damage after you chopped down all the mangrove trees 16 years ago.
This is just peak gaslighting. Yasser Arafat was given very generous two state proposals, but he refused each without counteroffer, and then launched a multi-year stream of terrorist attacks. It was Arafat who killed the two state solution.
In May 1948, immediately after the Jewish leaders in the British Mandate of Palestine have realized the UN’s 1947 decision, which called for the establishment of a Jewish an an Arab states on this land, the armies of all of the newborn Israeli state have invaded it, even though at this point in time Israel did not occupy even one centimetre of the West Bank (Israel’s war of independence).
Why did they (the Arab neighbours) do so (invaded Israel)?
The jihadists aren't interested in freedom, you dupe. They are interested in building a totalitarian Islamist state and wiping the Jews off the map. If you think this is a land dispute land, you're woefully ignorant. It's about a death cult wanting to destory a modern technological, advanced civilization.
That is the world ISIS and Hamas want to build. If you evade that obvious fact, you are choosing to ignore reality.
I wish Tom was PM of Israel. I am sure less number of people would be hurt on either side. We desperately need peace makers in Israel.
Tom "Six More Months" Friedman. I realized a long time ago that he and most other pundits don't know appreciably more than what you learn on the evening news.
Dunning-Kruger effect at work.
Israeli here. Thank you tom I agree 100 percent. I’ll also add that Bibi is finished here. We might actually have an Israeli government that would stop the crazy dumb thing that is the settlement movement
Thanks for your perspective. As an American, I sadly have to say that we r generally uninformed as to many of what is happening in the Middle East. Most Americans opinion on Israel versus Palestinians centers almost exclusively on whether they r liberal or conservative with little or no appreciation on what the important issues and controversies are
Too late unfortunately. That train has left.
@@mensrea1251 haven’t had to maneuver the word menswear since 1977-1980. Wish I could go back 🤔
Yes!!! Keep our $ out of Israeli settlement construction
And those settlements are expanding.
It is too late unfortunately -- There are already 700,000 settlers in the west bank. These are enough to the kill the hope for a Palestinian state @@jcc152509
Thank you Mr Friedman!
His perspective is gleaned from the most important truths of this situation, not just regionally but globally.
Outstanding ~ ebenly balanced, great job …good luck you guys are needed
We need ‘Enlightened’ leaders ( in this whole conflict) who are not corrupt and truly have the needs of their people at heart. Enlightened leaders who can see the BIGGER BROADER PICTURE FROM BOTH SIDES, and understand the ROOTS of this tragic problem. It appears to me that deep unacknowledged Palestinian wounds, dispossession have been simmering and boiling and boiling and simmering for over 70 years.
Both sides need to acknowledge each other’s deep grievances, viewpoints and come up with a ‘NEW VISION’.
War and killing do not solve anything. They only foster more hatred, violence, aggression in new generations fuelled with the same prejudices, rage, hatred and intolerances of their fathers.
Name me one enlightened leader you know.
@@KJ-yises I don’t know any at this stage but we can dream. If an enlightened Leader existed, he would give us Hope, and a Positive Vision for Real and Lasting Peace in the Middle East
Bravo Mr. Friedman
...hard for me to accept that of all the security apparatus in Israel, which is almost exclusively pointed at Hamas, totally missed this, which beggs other questions...
Reductionist thought isn't productive. The world is a rich and complex place. Conspiracies are merely the feeble minded grasping, rather than enjoying life.
Wow, if I was US president, then I'd call Friedman as well. Insightful, intelligent and honest.
Fair assessment from Tom Friedman.
Listening to the description of the invasion, I was struck by the denial of reality of the people living in freedom so close to what was called an open air prison, enjoying the peace until it ended.
Israel is the most racist state in the world. No different to the Nazis.
They've lived there since the 40's and 50's when Gaza hasn't even been occupied by Israel at all. They've been suffering rocket attacks since the 2000's and continued to suffer constant rockets after Israel pulled out from Gaza completely in 2005. A few years ago Hamas started sending fire balloons across the border to burn the Israeli agricultural fields, belonging to those same people. A large portion of the people who've lived there are left leaning, peace-supporting Israelis, some people who were kidnapped were literal peace activists, Vivian Silver helped people in Gaza enter Israel for medical treatment. Before the Hamas rise to power and the consequent blockade there were actually Gazans working in the area regularly in agriculture and construction etc. because the salaries in Israel are way higher. There was recognized shared humanity and at least a semblance of trust.
Aren't you the one denying reality?
You are very deluded. Those lands are not Israeli lands and already had Palestinians living on them for hundreds of years. It was the Jews that were the refugees, taken in by the Arabs as they had nowhere to go, but then they began to murder and steal the land from the Arabs and that has continued to this day. Those fields you talk about belonged to the Palestinians and where the kibbutzes were builit, there were over five hundred Palestinian villages which the Israelis destroyed and expelled, imprisoned, and murdered the Palestinians that had been living there. Get your facts straight. @@Colleepoly3975
Not even mention what happened in October 7
Thank you. I've always learned something when listening to Tom Friedman.
May God protect Israel.
Friedman has never been better than he has been in his recent columns, every word hits home with the thud of sense.
He is also expressing what I hope will become mainstream American policy, and what the American Jewish community can offer to help Israel by way of tough love, and there is no other love worth giving in this crisis.
like his promotion of the iraq war?
@@mendoza4789 I was just talking about his most recent columns not every word he’s written for the last thirty years. Nor was anyone else commenting here.
If you disagree with what he said in this podcast that’s the relevant conversation to have
@@markacohen1 credability is paramount. neo cons have not been punished for thier wars that cost us 8 trillion and countless lives in the mideast. far from being punished their power has grown. friedman is exhibit a
friedman cries about the state of the world for his grandaughter (born into wealth btw). what role did neo libs like friedman play in our current state. the iraq war being a huge factor
@@mendoza4789 well the discussion here was about the current situation, I like most commenters below find Friedman a voice of sanity. What do you think about what he actually wrote?
And for the record, I give credit to Biden for realizing that they’d all made a terrible mistake and urging Obama to get out of the wars when he was VP and finally pulling the plug when he was in office even if it was badly executed.
That may not be radical enough for you but we have an election next year and it’s Biden or armageddon like it or not. I m a Bernie guy but look around at the left in the other Western Democracies, infighting and fielding too far left candidates destroyed us. Israel is a whole other story Hamas’s bombing campaign in the 90s and the second Intifada drove the country to the Right and wiped out the Left.
Wonderful guest
Wish we go back to Oslo Accords.
Well that was a super interesting podcast! And that's coming from someone who is not very sympathetic to the Israeli perspective on the long-lasting conflict (for what it's worth i'm not American either so bear with European me). I so wish we'd listen more to the people out there, whatever their side, who are helping us be more intelligent and sane, and less to those who want to dumb us down. As the interviewee very eloquently said "I'm trying to make a difference, not a point". Thanks a lot NYT !
You European Muslim/Arab apologists are total 🤡s
I, like almost all Americans, do not know enough about the Israeli-Palestinian dilemma. Please explain why you do do think Friedman offers an honest & correct assessment of Israeli Prime Minister?
I STAND WITH ISRAEL, BEST OPTION IS EUROPE ESPECIALLY ENGLAND AND GERMANY SHOULD TAKE ALL PALESTINIANS, AS THEY HAVE PLENTY OF LAND AND FOOD, BECAUSE NOW "JEWS" ARE GONE, THESE PEOPLE ARE "WILD WEST" OBLIGATION
13:00 > Q: political hard shift right
13:21 Tom Friedman answers....
13:34 "under one condition....
14:15 ... BUT I fxxxxxxg Will NOT Do That..."
well said !
This was brilliant
Always such unbelievable breadth and depth of understanding from Thomas Friedman.
This was a very enjoyable discussion, and I am surprised at my saying that. I'm not a particular fan of Tom Friedman, mainly because he hasn't really been correct about a damned thing in the last 20+ years yet he is still held up as some oracle. Nonetheless, he seemed pretty on point and tied to reality and, just as importantly, intellectually honest on this talk. Well done.
😅. What was your favorite color again?😅
This is by far the most insightful and informed viewpoint I have heard in the past two weeks, and more.
Friedman is a joke and if you think he is good -- YOU KNOW NOTHING.
Why do not you listen to Dr. Norman Finklestein you tube recording?
One has to wonder just why such wise men are discounted and ignored by modern society? With all of the Palestinian/Israeli hate that has become mainstream these last few weeks, what is to become of us???
Tom shame on you. Nothing about Gaza concentration camp and apartheid state
I like how Tom presented good and bad on both sides.
US support for Israel gives us nothing but grief. It's irrational and dangerous and should be immediately and completely halted.
Friedman is a clown. And has blind support for the jewish democratic state.
If so, then what about the US support of Ukraine, Taiwan …
Peace is not on the charter that founded Israel. That is the problem.
Genocide was a foundation stone and pillar of Zionitism.
How do you change an engine on an aircraft in flight? Netanyahu is no mechanic for this.
The Second Intifada from 28 September 2000 to 8 February 2005 ended any serious discussion of a two state solution. Tom Friedman is living in 1993.
Tom has known EVERYONE important in Israeli politics, for 30 yrs. He's right about BiBi's incompetent politicians.
Tom gave solutions. You didn't. Then you attacked Tom. Your attack shows your goal is to hurt others, not to protect Israel.
Your "thinking" will ensure NO PEACE & no solution.
I stopped listening when you said the situation was frozen. You have zero idea what’s going on.
How can the interviewer even think that Hamas wanted to govern Gaza in a normal way? They turned it into an offence oriented military camp. And the whole world supported them.
The two state solution is dead. Sorry, Tom.
There is no moral ambiguity for normal human beings with functioning common sense. The moral dilemma comes as a result of us completely losing our moral footing and deforming our minds enough to think subjugation, occupation, genocide, and ethnic cleansing can sometimes be ok. The Palestinians have won the philosophical war long ago and we LOST. We dismally and hopelessly lost.
I have noticed that many mainstream media outlets and social platforms have avoided directly commenting on these issues. Facebook has recently banned and blocked a lot of speech relevant to Netanyahu.
The NYT is incredibly brave to maintain an incisive and prescient insight into these controversial and chaotic events. Respect!
The Channel 4 youtube channel has been great with a neutral view point as well.
The mainstream media is Israel's lapdog.
The NYT is not so moral. It encourages Jew hatred.
dude... try to leave any critical comments at their website
it has been years since they accepted any comments for me
i come here to give them a piece of mind
cheers
then you havent been watching cnn or msnbc
which makes sense, their ratings are in the toilet
Thank you, thank you, thank you Mr. Friedman. Well said.
Talk about the Israel lobby, AIPAC, and their tactics if you mean it, Tom.
Great stuff thx facts
This is important to listen too!! Some much needed perspective. Thank you.
Tom is brilliant
Tom isn’t brilliant. The truth is obvious. Tom is just pointing out the obvious.
as lovely and vaguely revealing (there are a few prejudices on display)
as this laid-back discussion of death and destruction is,
if you are truly interested in trying to grasp why the Middle East has become the
realm of the merchants of death (they are the ones who profit most from any conflict;
indeed they foment them) that it has become,
*in my opinion*
you can do no better than to find Robert Fisk's
"The Great War for Civilization: The Conquest of the Middle East".
it's exhaustive and detailed, but worth the trouble.
Hamas is no Isis .this take isn't that good .
It's refreshing to hear Tom Friedman say "not one brick, not one nail." But I have a question for him: When he says "a two state solution," what does he mean? A truly sovereign Palestinian state, just as Israel is a sovereign state, with its own armed forces, its own foreign policy, and free travel between Gaza and the West Bank? In other words, two EQUAL states, with equal rights to self-determination? If he does, more power to him. But I strongly doubt that even a center-left coalition Israeli government would agree to it, because it would feel too threatened by an armed Palestinian state. And perhaps they would be correct, because many contentious issues would remain unsolved, from settlers' refusal to relocate to Israel, to Palestinian demands for the right of return.
Counterintuitively, I believe Jewish Israelis (let us not forget 20% of Israelis are Arabs) would be safer is a single democratic state encompassing the West Bank, Israel, and the Gaza strip, with equal rights for all, the right for anyone to live where they chose, no more Aliyah or Arab immigration, and an integrated army. Jewish Israelis would have a homeland without the need for a Jewish state, and Palestinians would be able to live in THEIR ancestral homeland. Surveys show that most Palestinians are perfectly willing to live in peace next door to Jews. My local cafe owner, a Palestinian, certainly is. The same, alas, cannot be said of all Israeli Jews, but attitudes can change: look at South Africa.
This may seem an over-idealistic solution, but I think it is the only practical and logical one. It is what a visiting Martian would propose. There are currently millions of Jews and millions of Arabs in what has historically been called Palestine. None of them are going anywhere; even if they wanted to, who would take them in? Together, they would form the most educated, most democratic, most prosperous country in the Middle East.
I totally agree with every word you wrote. What a relief to at last find an intelligent post! I would only add that in such a state, any hate ideology, writing, speech etc ought to be punished with utmost severity.
I wonder what he thinks of the Chinese warships (six I believe) that China had sent to the Persian gulf, possibly to protect their energy interests.
Thousands of victims of terror have been displaced in Israel.
Mr Friedman is one of the few indispensable writers on this topic.
The true meaning of Palestine is all the land of Israel without any Jew, Hamas is Palestine! From the river to the sea there won't be one Jew free, and almost all Palestinian support him. We, Israelis, finally get it right...
If Israeli children are held captive in tunnels, why is Israel bombing these tunnels?
I am with Mr. Friedman, 100%!
Tom Friedman is fantastic to have on, to clarify the issues. He's a world-recognized expert in the area & issues, and most importantly he says the cold hard truth without trying to soften the blow. An amazing communicator who adroitly explained the core issues.
He is a shill for Israel. His pro Israel stance disqualifies him from having a balanced viewpoint on this conflict. He spews Hasbara propaganda. #BDS
And don't forget folks: Israel facilitated the creation of Hamas.
Israel is a walking human rights violation.
Next: Listen to Prof. Yuval Noah Harari's comments. He is an Israeli professor of history, and he is an international best-selling author on human civilizations. His books have sold over 35 million copies in 65 languages, and he is considered one of the world’s most influential public intellectuals today. His take is similar to Mr. Friedman's, but he has a very personal perspective.
This is a great episode. Tom Friedman is such a smart and experienced observer of the Middle East. He's absolutely right that Israel is in an impossible moral position right now. But that's the difficulty you walk into when you you take over a region and then oppress the existing population for 75 years.
Shame turns to anger. Netanyahu has turned his shame into complete destruction of Gaza.
Great talk, even though need to say that there where so many self contradictory things in what Mr.Friedman was saying, but I guess it's just the very nature of this very conflict & what the heck is a perfect war, can people remind me of one perfect war that was fought in last seventy years, may be there were some, but i really don't think there is a thing called a perfect war.
His Israel bias is nauseating.
@@jcc152509 I don't think my friend, even though I am not capable of nor it would be right of me in saying much in this matter as I am not dealing with this matter first hand, but I can certainly say that It's a very complex scenario and from the distance I am seeing it I think it would be really easy to blame one or other party solely for this mess but remember what's easy may not always be right & the solution to this problem will not come from easy but from the very difficult process of understanding each other and negotiating with each other fairly and the first step would to owning up to your own mistakes by every party.
@@siddhubabaji This isn't feasible. Israel has all of the power and controls the narrative. They engage in a carte blanche fashion, are an illegal military occupier, and are hell bent on beating the collective life out of Palestinians.
If you cage people, starve them, mentally, physically, emotionally abuse, and terrorize them, take their land, use Israeli military courts, create an open air prison and an Apartheid system, have jew only roads, surveil them like they are all criminals, raise their homes, burn their olive tree farms, kill them, control their resources, disallow everyday products products from being allowed into Gaza, limit their access to electricity, raze their homes, evict them from homes, engage in forcible transfers, severely limit their movement, bully, allow IDF forces to permit illegal settlers(hilltop jews) to engage acts of terror, threaten to destroy the Dome of Rock, imprison innocent Palestinians, house children in detention centers, and show utter disregard for their lives.
BN said that Israel was going to take all of Judea and Samaria in late 2022 on Twitter.
Israel is reaping what they sow.
I agree with what Tom Friedman said 100 percent.
Tom truely speeks the absolute truth!!
It seems to be a matter of complete indifference to these guys that they just printed a lie on the front page of their newspaper, based on a report by a gang of murderous animals.
Tiere sind gut
I am sorry you are right animals are good. I should have said scum. @@dagmarvandoren9364
It is incredibly that a journalist opinate something like this. He is pro Hamas.
So interesting! why doesn't it have more audience?
Thank You Tom Friedman for speaking up on halting all settlements and the US taxpayer money/ weapons support package.
I hope the Senators listen to this - a reasonable request.
Friedman is the most rational analyst on this subject. He should be the prime minister for Israel….
Never
I don’t support Bibi, but you need to be more than cynical to say he aided Hamas to use as a tool against Biden. Also, you guys spend too much time in the intro slapping each other on the back.
Interesting..
Is Thomas doing the Sunday talking head shows? If not, he should.
❤
Good discussion!
Love how fearless and fair Friedman is. One of the few I know who talks about the conflict with a deep well of knowledge, nuance, yet compassionate detachment.
Tom's analysis is always after the fact✌️
remind him of selling the war on iraq..he will block u
was he selling us here another on behalf of Israel?
After inciting for war on Iraq.. i can stand hearing him honestly
be careful what he sells
let us hope we are not dragged into a war that we have no bone into
I'm afraid that is too late
cheers
The link to "Why Israel is Acting This Way" is not working.
Good analogy @ about 11:00
12:40 I saw that video of the Dr. literally chasing D Suliman, by clapping his hands at her the entire time, like you would shoo a dog, off of the hospital grounds as she attempted to talk to a patient (who also was telling her that she was bothering her and her family). It was something to see~! He was yelling and shooing at her like this until she was practically out of sight~!!
Look up ANY comments by Norman Finklestein
Although Ed Witten is scary smart my favorite alum because he is both wise and scary smart is Tom Friedman. This podcast was extraordinary. When I was a grad student "From Beruit to Jerusalem" was not only considered required reading for IR/Politics but close to the canonical voice and explanation of that fustercluk the Levant.
TF is blindingly pro Israel.
It was the most important book I read prior to my Iraq deployment. Absolutely crucial for understanding how Arabs (and other misc) think.
Do you also understand how Americans think? I've heard Americans think that brown people are less human. Is that true? What's a good book that explains how Americans think? @@aquilajedi
Sounds like you’re into oversimplified narratives. If that helps you understand the world - more power to you!❤
As far as a book that might help you better understand Americans that’s a tough one. We completely change 180 in temperament and character every 15-20 years so it is much harder to lock down.
Not oversimplified , but one who cannot see the forest from the trees would say that. Also de Tocqueville is still an excellent read about americans and it is 150 years old. I do agree that one thing has changed since Beirut to Jerusalem was written agewise the Israel/Palestine conflict is the equivalent age as the US /Native american conflicts were in 1950 or the US civil war was in 1940.
Even if you are 100% pro palestine at some point you have to recognize that it was your grand parents or great grand parents who's land was stolen. No one wants to hear about genocides from 100 years ago. Not the armenian, not the holocaust, not what the japanese did to the interns in the Philippines and not to the Palestinians.
Israel, however evil and distasteful to some, exists and is not going away. And thanks to all of the wars and conflict they have the best cyber tech in the world. The harder you fight the stronger they keep getting.
Palestine and the palestinians have been egregiously wronged. So were the Carthaginian's, the Vietnamese, the irish, the poles, the druids, the Mensheviks, the Egyptians, the Inuit, the Aztecs, the Incas, the Hawaiians, the Phillipino's and thousands of other peoples.
Duly noted, time to move on.
As Hamas’ leader sits in Qatar, how can Hamas be “wiped out”?
You're describing their spokesperson. Do you understand the difference between a spokesperson and the leader?
No mention of US veto of UN ceasefire resolution. In other words, US again in support of using military force rather than diplomacy and comfortable risking escalation. Just like our Ukraine policy.
good for our arms industry
@@ChannelMath Yes, exactly! Quoting Biden when asking for more Ukrainian and Israeli aid, he said it was for "Equipment that defends America and is made in America." He's literally rationalizing and applauding support for the military industrial complex!
The most intelligent recap of this war. This man is brilliant
However things go, Gaza has a population of 2.3 million people squeezed into a tiny slice of worn out desert that probably couldn’t feed 23,000 people. As global warming and global conflicts worsen and agricultural production is further disrupted, will the world continue to send food to Gaza?
Gaza will forever remain an unexploded grenade until the population pressure is relieved.
Valid point.
This checks the boxes: knowledge, understanding, sanity, humanity, and he's not here to tell you what you want to hear--unless what you want is the strong sauce.
So from both Palestinian and pro-Israeli friends I have a common consensus that a two-state solution is dead. And has been for long time. From the Israeli perspective, as Friedman said, the Palestinian government is too corrupt, inept, and such as state would be a security risk. From the Palestinian side, they say any so-called Palestinian state would have to make so many concessions to the hugely powerful partner state that essentially would be castrated right from the start. It would also be utterly fragmented to make a viable state.
So how about a single federated state on the line of let's say, Canada where you have powerful self run provinces and a federal government that does stuff like military, foreign affairs, and so on. Canada has the province of Quebec, a French speaking and culture-based, Roman catholic society with laws based on juridical legal system under which civil matters are regulated by French-heritage civil law. Other provinces are English speaking and British culture-based, mostly Protestant society with laws based on the British Common law. This system has worked well and keep peace between the two societies very well.
So Friedman followers, what do you think ?
I'm not Friedman's follower, but if you learn about Arabs, Jews, Muslim Brotherhood members and all their unadulterated history, this seems an utopia. Extremists won't allow it to happen (mostly islamic, with small minority of ultra-orthodx Jews). If extremists were removed, sure it's the best solution. Second best is two-state solution, again, without extremists as they'll never agree, and never wanted a modern state in the first place. They don't even care about lives of Palestinians, none. However if two-state - or Palestinian state were established, 'castration' of Palestinian international ambitions is not the worst case scenario. They do want an Arab league, an empire of fundamentalist Islam. Most do anyways. Vague parralel: if you want to free a serial-rapist, would castration be the price or you trust him on some grounds he'll not do it again?
I think Israel has a lot to think about like:
How do they get out of Gaza?
Before they march into Gaza.
Everyone in Israel, down to the dog catcher, has to know what their exit strategy for Gaza is before they go into Gaza.
That is their national security job 1.
This is more serious than simply "getting out of Gaza". They can continue bombing Gaza to smithereens and then leave.
They haven't explained their REAL goals (because it's horrendous). Netanyahu's govt is bombing everywhere - which means they don't care if THEIR BOMBS kill the hostages! Netanyahu's Minister of Defense (the guy who called all Gazans "ANIMALS") turned the IDF into an unprofessional politicized military (which explains their bravado & failures to heed Egypt's warning).
True but they probably won't. Seems like they are reacting from an emotional response.
@@keep-ukraine-free There hasn’t been this many Jews killed in one day since the Waffen SS.
This is incredibly serious business.
I totally agree with you.
@@SofaKingShit Spot on brother.
There is no exit strategy my friend. Southern Gaza will become a "buffer zone", and the Palestinians will be living in refugee camps.
You know, I understand that both Israel and Hamas have been bad guys, but I always go back to the reason why the Palestinians are so angry with Israel. The displacement, the violence, and the terrible, unjust treatment by Israel toward Palestinians can not be overlooked as the fundamental reason for the conflict. If I'm wrong about that I'm sure Tom Friedman can school me, but I'll never talk to him, so 🤷🏻♀️.
They are a violent Apartheid state that is a military occupier.
You're not wrong.
In May 1948, immediately after the Jewish leaders in the British Mandate of Palestine have realized the UN’s 1947 decision, which called for the establishment of a Jewish and an Arab states on this land, the armies of all of the newborn Israeli state have invaded it, even though at this point in time Israel did not occupy even one centimeter of the West Bank (Israel’s war of independence).
Why did they (the Arab neighbors) do so (invaded Israel)?
You leftist types are a big part of the problem. The original Arab war of annihilation, mass murders of civilians and rejection of Israeli offers for peace, which are documented and can't be denied by Israeli/Jew haters, are the reason right wingers like Sharon and Netanyahu defeat moderates.
Winston Churchill, 1922 in his book A Peace To End All Peace:
”The Arabs would have sat in the dark forever had not the Zionist engineers harnessed the Jordan river for electrification. Now they swarm into Palestine seeking the light.”
@@johnsmith100that didn't happen. They created an ethnostate from the beginning and also violently displaced the Palestinians, which is how you end up with hundreds of thousands of refugees in Gaza. This information is everywhere
Now go listen to Ilan Pappe and Rashid Khalidi to get a better view of things and history.
Apartheid nation finds itself in a morally impossible situation. Who'd a thunk?
Thanks for speaking the truth. Why do we go "wow" when we hear someone speaking the truth? Because we've been trained to follow and swallow the narrative; the spin. Refreshing and important!
KEEP "POSITIVE" OPINION FOR OTHER TOO AS TRAFFIC MOVES "BOTH WAYS".
The problem with these commentators is they still don’t understand and can’t comprehend the complexity of when Muslims die defending his land and struggle against occupation, they truly believe they are going to heaven. It’s not that they celebrate death but death when defending their land/house and against oppression.
these days it's not just defending his land anymore... but escaping poverty and hopelessness.
I am old enough to witness that Hamas was a charitable organisation before Israel was born.