Please, stop apologizing for your opinions. You're a reviewer, it is literally your job to have a subjective opinion on games. Stop worrying about whether your review is going to upset someone. Also, thank you for confirming my choice to not back this game!
I agree, too. I go watch your review of that ship game you murdered (Navegador?) sometimes for a good laugh. You have a right to an opinion, people shouldn't flame you because they disagree with you. They can go watch some other reviewer. BTW I agree, the game looks like it has lots of problems, though the genius behind it means maybe good things coming from the designer in the future?
Hope Tom doesn't get bashed for this review or even too many thumbs down. He did a great job of explaining exactly what he didn't like and what the obvious problems are. He didn't just say I don't like it or this game isn't for me. He told you why and you can judge for yourself if you would share these problems or if some would maybe a plus for you. Great review without a great score. Those seem to be sorely missing in this hobby.
Tom, I'm a backer of this game and I think your opinion is perfectly valid and possibly most unbiased given to this game yet (most reviews are paid or by backers). I like this game, but majority of my group would not.
Honestly, just apply a simple fix and use dice to track guild membership. That improves the game so much that I think it makes most of this negative review to be moot.
It's a gorgeous, immersive, and elegant game. It's probably not for somebody who isn't dedicated enough to peruse the rules thoroughly. Tom's review strikes me as fairly summary and perhaps knee-jerk. I'd absolutely love to discuss input and output randomness with you, Mark. I don't find "The Queen's Army" to be as tight of an optimization puzzle as some of Lacerda's creations. This week, I beat it at the highest victory level after about five tries. I have a gut feeling it was an odd combination of luck AND skilled play. Have you attempted to quantify the role of output randomness in the solo AI? Have you kept a database of wins versus losses, etc.? Keep up the good work.
@@zombiefireman I had a nice conversation with Tom at Geekway a few years back and invited him to play, but he graciously declined. Tom was very kind and supportive.
The art looks amazing, such a shame it's such a long and fiddly game. Edit: I've managed to play this game, it was amazing! It was Long for sure, but it wasn't so fiddly. We used dice as a way to show the "power" over every guild so its status was obvious (do it! it really helps). Everything clicked together nicely and it flowed beautifully. A 3 player game took us 3 hours, first play for all of us, but the time flew by and I didn't even notice the clock. The game was super interactive, just the way I like my games (and euros). Get this game!
Well I'm a huge fan of this game, but I can't disagree with a lot of your points. It's incredibly beautiful, stunning production quality, but I agree that certain iconography is very unclear, and the vessel routes on the board could be clearer. I also agree that a little bit of streamlining wouldn't have hurt. I completely understand that this game is not for everyone; there's no getting around a 1-hour rules teach; some will find it too complex; some Eurogamers will find it too interactive; some players will find it too fiddly. So far however, I love it. The guilds are the heart of the game, and I don't know of any other games with a similar feature. Everything is so interwoven. You need the goods and services provided by the guilds to achieve things on the board. You need to achieve things on the board to gain status in the guilds. You need to push/pull with your guilds not just to gain points but also to make goods flow around the cyclical economy, to ensure other guilds can still provide the goods and services players will need to achieve things on the board. There's a lovely pacing to the game, where you have time to set up in the first 2 Epochs, but then the last 2 Epochs fly by in a race to achieve things before the game ends. It's clearly not for everbody, and the iconographic criticisms are justified, but for me it scratches an itch no other game does, I really enjoy it and I'll be playing it for years to come!
I backed this game and had it on my top 10 anticipated list for 2018. I worked through the rulebook, I set it up and played with the mechanics, I watched the Heavy Cardboard play through... I want to like it, I really do, and I am sure many people out there will. It just was not for me. It almost felt like it needed someone to streamline a few things in the game or an editor to step in and take small pieces away. The game to me felt like it was trying to be more complex than it needed to be. Mark Swanson is a really great guy and I do wish his game well amongst the heavy gaming crowd, but for me, it was just a bit too much.
I absolutely loved this review Tom, probably one of your best. Sticking to your honest opinion really pulls out the flaws that a game this big inevitably always has. Now as a consumer, I know what to expect when I purchase it so it won't be a surprising disappointment. And when I play, I'll be able to just focusing on what I enjoy!
Tom, I wouldn't worry that you might offend some. I know I watch because I enjoy getting your honest opinion, reviews of "hot" games like this show that you're not biased just because of the popularity of a game. Plus, if someone realizes that if you don't like a heavier euro, then they will most likely love it, than it's useful to them too. Keep up the great work!
Honestly, I would've been really shocked if Tom liked Feudum. It's not really his thing. I play Lacerda games (Gallerist, Vinhos, Lisboa) & yet I still think this game might be too heavy for me because the rules are so incredibly complex. I watched a professional rules video that took over an hour and a playthrough that made it clear that in the first game, you aren't even going to be competent. I appreciate that Tom found heavy euro gamers to play it with in order to do his review and I think he explained his feelings very thoroughly. Personally, I also really wish this game had been significantly streamlined, because I think it had the potential to be incredible. As it stands, I think this is a game that people who consistently play with the same group of heavy euro gamers will love, because they'll learn the rules, master the iconography, always be at roughly equal skill levels, and then enjoy it just fine.. but people who frequently have to teach new players will hate.
No need to apologise, Tom. You have clearly stated what your opinion is about Feudum and your arguments behind it, as is expected from a reviewer. It's actually a good thing you don't love every game you touch. Some of you criticism I found a bit stilly: in my opinion the cube pawns are clever, the goods cubes are perfectly fine, pleasing the king makes sense thematically, and the shilling and South symbols not at all confusing. Personally, I'm more bothered that in the Merchant guild the prices are covered by the goods cubes. Also, the Royal Writ iconography could certainly have been clearer. In your review it also seemed that you had misunderstood several rules, but I agree it is quite a lot to remember. While in other reviews I am sometimes annoyed that you missed some rules, here I really can't blame you. They are hard to grasp from reading the rulebook alone. This really is a game that you need to play at least several times to have a good idea what's going on, what kind of strategies would work, and by that time all the iconography and rules will make complete sense. But, then still I think the game is to fiddly for you, exactly for the same reason why I think it's a great game. All in all, not an unfair review, nothing unexpected, but I will continue to love Feudum.
I don't normally like Vasel's reviews and I really like this game. With that said I think he did a good job of reviewing this game. This game isn't for most people and I think his review perfectly reflects that.
We got this to the table last weekend. I really enjoyed it. I agree about the combat. I loved the guilds, the push/pull/trade stuff is great. This one won't see the table a ton but when it does I'll look forward to it.
Totally agree on this one. Game is fiddly, icons are non-intuitive and far too small. It is dry, overcomplicated, almost abstract euro. But... The art style is fantastic! The board is beautiful. Too bad the gameplay is not fun enough.
Thank you for your honest review. No need to apologies for not liking the game or bring negative points to the review. You're doing your job and we appreciate it.
Tom, I'm guessing you are not a fan of checking for dominance in Dominant Species? I think forced fighting is intended to balance upgraded feudoms, which allow control of powerful guilds. I didn't back this game but think it looks very interesting. Definitely looks like a game that takes a couple of plays to really get though. Still, I don't think it is any more fiddly than many alien interactions in cosmic incounter, which I own and enjoy. Update: After multiple plays, this is the best game to come out in the last two years. In my opinion, nothing else is even close.
stenobro In Dominant Species, you check for dominance whenever a species enters leaves the board. In Feudum, you check one guild whenever you place an influence or feudum. Usually, you are not counting higher than 5 or 6. I think you are capable of that level of math, and Tom makes it sound much worse than it actually is.
One of my best buddy has the same opinion with you. I really want to have this game right now :D. Anyway, DS is my favorite area control game, this made your opinions more valid
@@maksim9612 still a beast to teach, and set aside 5 hours for your first playthrough. It can be completed in 3 hours of everyone knows how to play and is not prone to analysis paralysis. Still one of the best games in my collection of over 600, and would probably make my top 10 list. Game play is highly interactive, and there are many different viable strategies which are well balanced. I highly recommend Feudum.
Thanks Tom for presenting a different angle than most (if not all) reviews about this game currently on TH-cam. I almost backed it but got caught up in a tight financial situation. I was on the fence about whether I should just put a bit more debt on myself to back it. I did not, for reason got the best of me. Then I saw that shipping was taking much more time than expected, then I had a good friend of mine who tried it at GenCon and told me he didn't really understand the whole gist of it (although he is really into heavy euro games). He said I would probably like it though. So I went back and looked at different videos. But I always felt there was a missing piece; there was something wrong but I could never find what it was since I didn't play the game nor could I find any review presenting a more nuanced point of view. But you finally did. And I'm glad. I'll definitely try it, but I won't buy it beforehand. You're one of the only channels that allow to give negative or not so positive reviews. I appreciate that. Keep the good work. Thanks again.
Great review. I really hope that I have a different opinion on this one as I'm waiting for my copy! I really appreciate the comment of "if this game had a stronger producer..." I think that is part of the curse of Kickstarter. No one in the project has the incentive to make the game smaller and tighter. I'd love to see a rundown of games that are better when you slim them down and tighten them up.
i remember when this game was on Kickstarter, and i loved the game explanation trailer, (maybe one of the best produced) but i watched it 3 times and still could not grasp what this game was exactly. Tom just showed off the base game and not the 3 or 4 expansions that come with it. if you added all of that together you would have a 150.00 beautiful collectible, that will almost never see the table. it is a shame though because this game looks so great, and innovative. i think the best point Tom made, was that this game needed a strong developer, or an editor to cut some stuff out and stream line it a bit.
Yeah, I just bought the base game, and I'm fine with that. The game has so much going on, all my fellow gamers who love the heavier fare all agreed, the game does not need even more stuff with the expansions. This one is very hard to learn from a video too....gotta jump in and see how the guilds work to really start seeing it fall into place.
Whelp, Tom and I definitely don't see eye-to-eye on this one. While there is a lot going on here, there is nothing really 'fiddly' as actions makes sense within the context of the game itself. It does have a near-constant need to check for 'dominance' but this is something we've all learned playing hours and hours of Dominant Species all those years ago. This is one of those games where when I lose I KNOW it was my fault as I was unable to see the through-lines to victory. We just don't get many of those anymore and I miss them. I hope that other little known/unknown designers will take more chances in their euro designs now that KS is a viable arena to bring a total passion project to life.
I hope many other little unknown designers take a chance and pitch these ideas to known publishers and have a developer look at the game thoroughly before sending it to print. I thought the game had a lot of cool ideas but a real publisher would never have printed a board that hard to read or tacked on that many ideas and options.
Got to play this for the first time last night. I agree with everything said. The people I played with used dice to show control, which we still had problems at times. I hate the monsters and how they lock down people, that can really ruin a game. I think I still liked it a little more than you, but agree and understand every one of your dislikes of the game. GREAT REVIEW!!
Tom's review is spot on to my own with one addition. The game is way too long for what it is. I love heavy euro games and I really enjoyed myself through about a third of the game. When the feudums starting popping up and the combat started I was pretty much done with the game...and it had hours to go. Two-thirds of the way through the game we knew who was going to win and we had an over an hour left to play. This was a first game for everyone and therefore a "learning" game, but I have no interest to playing again. There are numerous 3-5 hour games I would play before this one.
When you pay for a game this big and beautiful... you are FORCED to try to love it. Which we did... try that is. Tom really hits the nail on the head with every point. We played with friends who knew the game and it STILL required them to reference/refresh themselves and the game took 6 hours + a rushed unsatisfactory ending. The game is called feudum... but if you build one your odds of losing goes up significantly. My question is: WTF?
Hi Tom. Thanks for the nice review here. I really appreciate the more tip-toeing style you used for the criticism: in a sense, it is less "you" than usual, but I really liked how you went in depth about what is wrong, it is really useful for who still have to choose whether to buy it (me? I pre-ordered it already) :-) Is this a new deal in your reviews? I may end up not disliking it, since you are really providing a better service overall. Of course, when the product you're reviewing deserves it, which is not always the case, as you are perfectly able to discern. Thanks again for the really enjoyable video!
The most useful reviewers are those who actually once in a while put out argumentation for why something is not a good game. Some reviewers only have endless lines of enthusiastically positive reviews. ... it might be because they are just glass-half-full kinda people, but you never learn how to use their recommendations if they never find anything they don't like. So... good for you Tom.
Wow, so many disclaimers from Tom :0 Is this the same guy who threw Vasco da Gama and dumbed Hawaii in a dustbin :P haha!! The times they are a-changin' :D
Wow, this is the first somewhat negative review I've seen of this so far. Pretty much what I've seen so far is love love love for this one. I guess I'll find out for myself when I get a chance to try it. Thanks for your honest opinion and thoughts Tom.
The thing, Tom did not backed this, he is not emotionally/financially invested. People that back a game wait a long time and pay a good buck, every backer of any given game should be taken with a grain of salt. Not saying nothing about any given game, just saying the ks campaign and stuff may affect someone in a very strong way, making them blind to what could be perceived as flaws of any given project/ idea/ thing.
This is a great game. But I never thought it to be on Tom's ballpark. I know he likes some heavy Euros, but this one doesn't look to me like it was something he would like. Too many linked rules and consequences for what seems to be his taste in games. With that said, I think more people will dislike this game because of the challenge it is to understand all the rules. Still, it's fun, it's engaging and there are a lot of ways to approach and win the game. It takes some plays to get a really good understanding of this one and for a reviewer who didn't like it it takes considerable will to give it another go, because it's a long game if you play it with all new players. I think there are some things Tom didn't like, while there's a hint that the game got in his nerves a little bit (the cubic pawns critic is an example) . Play it again Tom, with a crew that already knows the game. I don't think you will love it, but you'll have a better idea of the game. So far I'm really enjoying this one. (edited typos).
This review reflects the exact impression I got from watching gameplay of this game. The iconography is tiny, unclear and it's not distinguished from the game art. it seems unplayable, I can't see how these problems got through testing.
All of the negative issues with the game PRODUCTION we agreed with BUT overall we (just about) loved the game itself. For the control of guilds we use colored dice (from Rajas of the Ganges).
Good amount of good points, but military service for feudal lords is thematic as hell, that's how it worked in Medieval) they weren't granted lands and privileges for nothing. And adding some steampunk elements and just a little bit of magic with monsters makes this world really unique, wonder why so few people point it out...
I am not sure what is so bad about the combat. Is it because how devastating it can be to lose a pawn, let alone a feudum? All pawns, by default, have an attack of +1 and defense of +2. Monsters are +1/+1. If you attack a pawn or monster you add all the attack of your pawns and monsters and the defender adds all their defense from pawns and monsters. The attacker can spend 1 saltpeter to get a +1 attack. If the attacker has a knight, they can spend unlimited saltpeter. Attackers can also use weapons from Royal Writ cards. Defenders can use the defense card to get a +1 defense. If the attacker has more attack than the defender, the attack wins, and the defender removes their pawn. Now I did say that pawns have a default attack and defense value. These are both reduced to zero if you used wine to feed them. Attack a feudum is the same, expect the defender gets +2 def from the feudum and +1 from a subject. The attacker can get +1 from a serf.
What combat systems do you play where that is a mess? That is some pretty simple combat mechanics. You just add up the attacks and defense and compare. Rising Sun has more complex and complicated combat than this.
I'm a big fan of the game, and I don't really disagree with Tom's points here. Yes, the warfare is overly complicated (but after you play a game or three, it's not as bad), and he's right. If you have a Feudum (the top level property designation), you do have to attack to please the king or you will not win. The card play is a lot of fun (taking the best/most extensive actions with the pawns you have is critical), and the interaction of the guilds hoping the other players move things along so you can get an extra special turn is just a blast.
Ug, I was introduced to this game today. Took 5 hours! ploughing through this tedious game. Waaaay too much going on to figure out what the hell I was supposed to do and too much work on game maintenance.
The fact that Tom had to view in so close to show the bubble lanes shows me that the board artist wanted to make a beautiful board and didn't think about the functionality of it. There could have been some great looking art that worked to make the board easy to read in the same great style.
Sub can move through any sea route. Ship can only go around the islands and up the river. I never had an issue with the bubbles, but I tend to explain it this way. But I guess it's an issue, if you want to make it one.
Given that you, Tom said that the game is very complex in a lot of ways, I'm wondering if "Feudum" would have been a more ideal board game to be turned into a full head-on computer sandbox game or app adaptation given that computers could help with the unneeded calculating and recalculating that the physical board game truly demands from players when playing 🤔
Tom, Thanks for your honest opinion! I really like your reviews because you always explain (in detail) why you like or dislike something. And even point out plus points for games you didn't like and the other way around. So I can make up my own mind if the things that bother you about a game would bother me to. I think you're a great reviewer and I enjoy your enthusiasm, authenticity and honesty.
I think it makes sense, priests (in game they are the monk guild) do often before and still now bless stuff for it to be better (bless fields that more crop would grow, or better crops would grow). In this situation as a blessing you give farm a blessing with a rosary bead, now it can hold more resources.
Also forgot to mention it is way ....way .....way to long. 2-4hrs play time is ridicules. Such a shame I backed it, I had such high hopes for it. The artwork is amazing and the Kickstarter campaign was great.
queerchameleon if you watched the Kickstarter rules explanation then you would not be suprised that this is a long game. Tom has only explained a fraction of the rules.
I don't understand why the 2-4 hrs play time is ridiculous. Do you normally not like games that go over 2 hours? This can take four hours the first time. About one hour to explain the rules and three with new players. I could easily see a full game of five taking 2 - 2.5 hours with experienced players.
we need more critics in boardgaming. Tired of paying 60$ plus because everyone is "friends" in the boardgaming industry. If it's meh I want to know its meh, if its shit tell me its shit. People get too attached over games / opinions in this hobby. Thank you for being honest. Also what did everyone expect from a first time designer. Publishers are good sometimes because they can detect shit and kickstarters let anyone release anything they want.
From Tom's description of the game alone, it sounds like the designer had enough ideas for two to three games and decided to just jam them all into one. Seems like it really should have been shaved down a lot and/or made into several games with the interesting ideas they do have.
Just played it and I agree with your review. There are some good things about it but other parts of the game make it hard to enjoy. I'd rather play other euro games.
Played this the other day and took us 5 1/2 hours. I like heavy games but this just did not work. Too long and too fiddly. Completely agree with your review
I came here to make sure I'm not crazy. I laughed until I couldn't breathe when I watched that excellently produced rules video on the KS page when it launched. This game needed very serious development. As it is it stifles me to see how many people can actually take this game seriously. I'm sure many designers in a flurry of creativeness have come up with such overwrought ideas. Sometimes it is best to abandon pride of authorship and work with publishers to help you make your best game.
Always be yourself Tom. :) If everyone loved every game, there would only be ONE game to play. It's called TASTE. Everyone has different taste. Some may LOVE Feudum, others... not so much. Keep up the amazing work. :-D
I was a backer and have one play of this under my belt. My early impression is this game is really two completely different games smushed together. As a result, the game comes across as completely disjointed at points, which leads to a lot of the fiddliness. I agree with a lot of what Tom said here.
Heavy Cardboard has a 4p live play of this game. Here: th-cam.com/video/YcKUNfLKy1Q/w-d-xo.html To Tom’s point: the rules explanation takes them 80 minutes; the gameplay afterwards goes for 3 hours. This better be the best damn game ever or Tom has a point about needing a developer.
And it's not even their first game. They've played it before & are an extremely non-AP group. Some people on BGG are taking 5-6 hours for a first game w/ rules explanation, which makes it very hard to get to the table. It's going to be really hard to convince my friends to play this game over our other heavy games, which come in at 4 hours or less with new players, some AP, & rules teaching.
I have the game set up and ready to play a first session. Absolutely agree that the board iconography is way too small and confusing, "look "over functionality is a poor decision. The small cubes are way too small! , they could of easily gone with standard small size 8mm cubes ( I may upgrade to these). The board , while beautiful is a rather muted washed out colour that does not pop like the vivid prototype versions seen in early videos . Another observation is the hexagon player pieces are not great quality at all, misshaped and not sanded smooth in some cases. Some poor faces on my player pawns too ( cubes). I love a good long and meaty Euro, so hope the gameplay lives up to expectations. Thanks for the honest review Tom!
Did you watch the; feudum complete rules + setup video. There are realy good videos explaining the rules and so forth. Dont think about giving the game a negative review, its already a great succés, this wont affect it :)
Even when you explained the rules I was like "wtf why is that even in the game" or "why do you have to do this now"... This game is definitely not for me.
I was saying the same thing when I was watching the learn to play video to decide to back it or not. I nodded off for a bit and woke up to it still going. That’s when I decided it wasn’t for me.
I'm an original backer and it is "ready for shipping" now, while 14 days ago I got a notification that it had been shipped from the Games Quest warehouse 312 miles from my home.
So, the iconography and the graphics are not quite up to par for a Euro, because it can be hard to see. And the game has a huge learning curve, it is a complex game. This is not bad, this is an aspect of the game. Not every game puts out on the first date, you have to work for it.
Good review and well explained summary. This definately seems like a game for people who enjoy complexity. This game desperately needs streamlining, even the terminology is unnecessarily confusing (serfs, epochs veneration points). The designer has not considered that many players will only likely play this game 1-2 times a year even if it was of a 10/10 standard.
ok I don't like this review for one main reason and I think it's a BIG one. Did nobody consider at any point in the game to use dice or some other tracking mechanism to visually track the guild membership?? Yes, the game without doing this is onerous and a flaw in the design, but it is EASILY fixed and helps assess the board state TREMENDOUSLY. I'm quite certain if someone applied this simple fix this review would have been much more reasonable and fair, but instead scares too many people away from the game. I was two years late to playing this game because of this review, that is why I think it is an extremely unfair review.
I almost bought this, but I think I will skip it until I can get a chance to play somewhere. Not a Euro fan to begin with, so not going to take a chance on this one.
I loved Lisboa (although it's rarely played because it's so darn heavy), but even compared to Lisboa, this seems very difficult. I understood Lisboa the first time I watched Rahdo's playthrough. I watched heavy cardboard's full rules teach & playthrough, but I still don't understand a bunch of things.
What I think I heard... Aesthetics are nice but not quite functional (1), the components are ok but the small multi color cubes representing the resources was function over form (1), Ease of play was dificult, had to refer to the rules often and was fiddly (0), Adventure part felt like an extra bit that didn't fit (0), Combat was not fun, complicated, and forced (0), area control was to fiddly as well, just no good mechanics to help the flow of play (0), the resource management with the use of the guilds seemed very satisfying (2), and the overall economics seems great (2), however the theme didn't always work (1), and the cards presented you with hard choices but there were clear winners if you drew them (1)... (8) I'd guess if pressed Tom would rate this about a 4 on BGG. I should check to see if he did.
Good review. It's unfortunate but there are some games that are really ambitious that come out of kickstarter but no matter how much you want to like it, it doesn't hold together as a game. Myth was pretty much like that too. I was interested in the game because it looks great and has a theme I like but when I watched a playthrough I knew it was a no go. It didn't look fun despite all of the mechanical stuff I generally like in games. I think you were quite generous in your review given that it really doesn't look like a good game at all. We tend to be more forgiving when we see all of the love and thought that goes in a grand design like this, we want to like it and try really hard to so it's sad to see something so grand flop.
Let's just stop creating innovative games with more than 3 rules that takes more than 30 minutes to play (including teaching). Because apparently the people who like that are mad! Jokes aside though, I don't feel this review makes the game justice, negative or not. The sloppy explaination makes it sound stupid, when in reality a lot of it makes much more sense given some context. Not all games can be taught without playing a few times, and not all people have a problem with that. This review should just have been left out, or at least be cut shorter than 23 minutes given how uninformative it was.
I've attempted to play Feudum 3 times, only finished it on the last try. It was fun, but it is too long, I hate the attacking, I hate that you have to attack if you go for Feudums, but part of me still likes the game. The art is fantastic, but they could have made some elements better to see and read. So for me it's a good game but not great. Lucky my friend kickstarted it not me.
At this point I'm not even sure what a heavy Eurogame is. I've played Vinhos, which by some is regarded as heavy. I think it's complexity is like a light wargame. The only Eurogame I've played which is not light is Food Chain Magnate.
Tom this is not only a game. This is an adventure. We player hoe for several times (5). And for now we gonna understand the compexity of the different strategy. We recognice your frictions. But we can tell you the dissapear alter game 4. Good luck with playing on in this game. We are Sire you gonna like it after all. 😎
One sign a game is badly designed is the insane amount of rules. I am one of those who backed this game on ks. But when i watched the video provided by the designers themselves on youtube on how to setup the game completely turned me off. It took forever and the cubes were literally everywhere and it was just the setup.I think the art and the theme is what drawn the people to this game. Its been a week since the game arrived, and i didnt even bother to read the rules or play the game anymore. Message me if you wanna buy my copy. Up for sale
I found Agra to be somewhat of an easier learn....you're doing a lot of the same things...just have a ton of different ways to get it accomplished. I had Agra on my wishlist and pulled it after playing Feudum. I have enough heavy stuff that only gets occasional play....I don't need another collecting dust. I have a hard enough time getting games like this, Kanban, Great Western Trail, COIN games, etc to the table.
To all those who are saying game is too long or fiddly for what it is, etc.: It is ok. It is a long, heavy game and it is clearly not for you. You not liking it doesn't make it a bad game. Target audience isn't you, so just pass and forget it. There is no need to discredit it.
The sweet spot of Dice Tower reviews is oriented on family weight games, so it's no wonder that this game gets a bad review. I was sure before i watched the review that it's going to be a negative review, so i watched it having fun with it that maybe i am wrong... i wasn't :)
Agreed, but when you criticize a game because it is "long" and fiddly" it is just wrong I think. Many gamers including me like such games and don't like lighter ones for example. Everyone has their own tastes of course, I have no problem with that. But people should just use "for me" at the end of their sentences more I think to point out that their opinion is subjective and they acknowledge that.
I am not talking about Tom, Derek. I am talking about some other commentors. Note that I am not talking about all negative commentors though, I am talking about some, not all.
I hate euro games and dont tend to play them. Terraforming Mars is as heavy as ive ever gone in terms of euro gwme complication. Yesterday, my friends force me to go through... this thing. Lots of whisky and shrugging rules of with we cant be arsed to read the rulebook again and we manager to get through this piece of crap in 4h. This was longest weirdest hardest game ive ever seen, oh my God, i thought i disliked euros ive played before, i HAAAAAAATE this thing
This is almost exactly the review I expected from DT.. Big heavy euros don't really fly here. Maybe a few do from time to time, but it's OK to be true to what you like and don't.
Jim Crimmins So what you’re saying is that a heavy Euro will never get a good review on the DT because the DT never like heavy euros. Except for those heavy euros that they say are good and they like.
Yeah, anybody who expected Tom to have glowing words about this game hasn't been paying attention to Tom's tastes. More often than not, the heavier games are reviewed by other Dice Tower contributors. For example, Ryan Metzler reviewed every Vital Lacerda game except The Gallerist, which Tom hesitantly said he liked, but he thought was too long with too many bits and pieces, and that he'd probably never play it again. So if I were a gamer who tend to enjoy heavier games, I might pay attention to other reviewers' opinions on this one a little more closely - it's just in a different wheelhouse. This review is definitely valuable, though, for those who don't take as well to heavy stuff. Perhaps this one just has a way of deceiving players into thinking it's more Ameritrashy because of the art and the map. It's a thematic euro, in my opinion, but still definitely heavy enough and euro-y enough to exclude a lot of gamers.
I'm really hoping we'll see a review for this from Ryan too. Speaking of The Gallerist, I played that for the first time a couple of weeks ago and found it to be quite delightful. I got smoked by two players that had played before, but it was still a fantastic time. Really looking forward to playing it again, and for my copy of Feudum to arrive.
+Jim Crimmins - You can say that you already expected this review because Tom doesn't like heavy euros but almost all his issues with this game are issues that could apply to any game. The fiddliness, the need for a developer, the graphic design, etc.
I just played this game... It was a painful experience. There are too many fiddly things, and way too many things to keep track of constantly. I think it would be a great game if they reduced the amount of stuff. It feels like there are 3 games in one, with no central objective. Game does look great, but again just way too many. Play Concordia instead.
Good review, Tom. I'm sorry you felt the need to be so defensive in your comments. Am the only one who thinks this game is actually kind of ugly, with its weird combination of knock-off Adventure Time whimsy and uncartoonlike portraits and the fact that the brightness appears to have been turned down too low on the graphics.
JDalkinn good grief... amateur?? it’s amazing how rude people can be when jumping on a negative review’s bandwagon... this is a project that the designer has been laboring over for an unimaginable amount of time (in their day to day, how much was spent thinking about Feudum?). The artist is extremely talented and made what looks like the most original game board I’ve seen, regarding graphic design. To passively join the bandwagon to say the art looks amateur is just painfully insulting and petty.
Curtis, I recognize that my opinion is likely a minority opinion, even in the comments on this video. That is hardly jumping on the bandwagon. I'll grant you "amateur" may be too strong--I'm just not a fan of this style, especially the artist's representation of people.
The art is nice indeed but the color scheme looks like it's painted by a colorblind person. These colors do not match and are kinda repulsive to watch. Esp. these variations of pink and violet.
antone1 Fair enough, as it is definitely stylized art. Personally the colors and style of the art is one of the biggest draws for me, as I enjoy the unique and funky look. But I can see it being polarizing.
antone1 in fact, the color scheme is FOR colorblind people, they even have (thankfully) given players an option to replace the small generic-green cubes for pink cubes, thereby making the entire game very clear for people with the “disability”. don’t be rude for rude’s sake.
I understand it, but it doesn't mean I have to then like it when the colors are intentionally off. For me it is a dealbreaker - I have to like the game also visually. So I would pass on such games for disabled.
Please, stop apologizing for your opinions. You're a reviewer, it is literally your job to have a subjective opinion on games. Stop worrying about whether your review is going to upset someone. Also, thank you for confirming my choice to not back this game!
I agree. Tom has been doing this more and more lately it seems. Own it, sir. You've earned the right to stand by your opinion.
I agree, too. I go watch your review of that ship game you murdered (Navegador?) sometimes for a good laugh. You have a right to an opinion, people shouldn't flame you because they disagree with you. They can go watch some other reviewer. BTW I agree, the game looks like it has lots of problems, though the genius behind it means maybe good things coming from the designer in the future?
a trick: you can watch movies at Flixzone. I've been using them for watching loads of movies recently.
@Brody Odin Yup, been watching on Flixzone for years myself :D
@Brody Odin Yup, I've been watching on Flixzone for since december myself :D
Hope Tom doesn't get bashed for this review or even too many thumbs down. He did a great job of explaining exactly what he didn't like and what the obvious problems are. He didn't just say I don't like it or this game isn't for me. He told you why and you can judge for yourself if you would share these problems or if some would maybe a plus for you. Great review without a great score. Those seem to be sorely missing in this hobby.
Tom, I'm a backer of this game and I think your opinion is perfectly valid and possibly most unbiased given to this game yet (most reviews are paid or by backers). I like this game, but majority of my group would not.
Honestly, just apply a simple fix and use dice to track guild membership. That improves the game so much that I think it makes most of this negative review to be moot.
Tom, Mark Swanson here. Soooo, want to play at Dice Tower Con in July. ; )
It's a gorgeous, immersive, and elegant game. It's probably not for somebody who isn't dedicated enough to peruse the rules thoroughly. Tom's review strikes me as fairly summary and perhaps knee-jerk. I'd absolutely love to discuss input and output randomness with you, Mark. I don't find "The Queen's Army" to be as tight of an optimization puzzle as some of Lacerda's creations. This week, I beat it at the highest victory level after about five tries. I have a gut feeling it was an odd combination of luck AND skilled play. Have you attempted to quantify the role of output randomness in the solo AI? Have you kept a database of wins versus losses, etc.? Keep up the good work.
Mark, this a very good game. Looking forward to buying Rudders and Ramparts soon.
@@jasong1610 Thanks. I really appreciate your kind words and support.
Mark, did Tom ever take you up on the offer to play it with you?
@@zombiefireman I had a nice conversation with Tom at Geekway a few years back and invited him to play, but he graciously declined. Tom was very kind and supportive.
Seems like a nice light filler
Yep. My group played it as a filler just last night between games of Twilight Imperium.
I'll probably start using this instead of Love Letter as a quick in between game
So light I might use it instead of Happy Salmon for introducing new players
Too easy. Gateway game. Good intro to Ticket to Ride.
I might use some of the cards in this game and add them to happy salmon to make it easier to explain happy salmon to new players
Thanks for the honest review, I think its especially important for large reviewers to give an honest feeling for how they feel the game is!
The art looks amazing, such a shame it's such a long and fiddly game.
Edit: I've managed to play this game, it was amazing! It was Long for sure, but it wasn't so fiddly.
We used dice as a way to show the "power" over every guild so its status was obvious (do it! it really helps).
Everything clicked together nicely and it flowed beautifully. A 3 player game took us 3 hours, first play for all of us, but the time flew by and I didn't even notice the clock.
The game was super interactive, just the way I like my games (and euros). Get this game!
Well I'm a huge fan of this game, but I can't disagree with a lot of your points.
It's incredibly beautiful, stunning production quality, but I agree that certain iconography is very unclear, and the vessel routes on the board could be clearer.
I also agree that a little bit of streamlining wouldn't have hurt.
I completely understand that this game is not for everyone; there's no getting around a 1-hour rules teach; some will find it too complex; some Eurogamers will find it too interactive; some players will find it too fiddly.
So far however, I love it. The guilds are the heart of the game, and I don't know of any other games with a similar feature. Everything is so interwoven. You need the goods and services provided by the guilds to achieve things on the board. You need to achieve things on the board to gain status in the guilds. You need to push/pull with your guilds not just to gain points but also to make goods flow around the cyclical economy, to ensure other guilds can still provide the goods and services players will need to achieve things on the board.
There's a lovely pacing to the game, where you have time to set up in the first 2 Epochs, but then the last 2 Epochs fly by in a race to achieve things before the game ends.
It's clearly not for everbody, and the iconographic criticisms are justified, but for me it scratches an itch no other game does, I really enjoy it and I'll be playing it for years to come!
Thank you for an honest review. Too many band wagon riders on TH-cam only point out the good parts and leave of negative comments.
Lawrence L7337 Funny how ‘honest review’ has become synonymous with ‘negative review’ (just look at review comments om bgg) :D
I backed this game and had it on my top 10 anticipated list for 2018. I worked through the rulebook, I set it up and played with the mechanics, I watched the Heavy Cardboard play through... I want to like it, I really do, and I am sure many people out there will. It just was not for me. It almost felt like it needed someone to streamline a few things in the game or an editor to step in and take small pieces away. The game to me felt like it was trying to be more complex than it needed to be. Mark Swanson is a really great guy and I do wish his game well amongst the heavy gaming crowd, but for me, it was just a bit too much.
I absolutely loved this review Tom, probably one of your best. Sticking to your honest opinion really pulls out the flaws that a game this big inevitably always has. Now as a consumer, I know what to expect when I purchase it so it won't be a surprising disappointment. And when I play, I'll be able to just focusing on what I enjoy!
Tom, I wouldn't worry that you might offend some. I know I watch because I enjoy getting your honest opinion, reviews of "hot" games like this show that you're not biased just because of the popularity of a game. Plus, if someone realizes that if you don't like a heavier euro, then they will most likely love it, than it's useful to them too. Keep up the great work!
Honestly, I would've been really shocked if Tom liked Feudum. It's not really his thing. I play Lacerda games (Gallerist, Vinhos, Lisboa) & yet I still think this game might be too heavy for me because the rules are so incredibly complex. I watched a professional rules video that took over an hour and a playthrough that made it clear that in the first game, you aren't even going to be competent. I appreciate that Tom found heavy euro gamers to play it with in order to do his review and I think he explained his feelings very thoroughly. Personally, I also really wish this game had been significantly streamlined, because I think it had the potential to be incredible. As it stands, I think this is a game that people who consistently play with the same group of heavy euro gamers will love, because they'll learn the rules, master the iconography, always be at roughly equal skill levels, and then enjoy it just fine.. but people who frequently have to teach new players will hate.
This “to much going on” feeling is the reason I pulled out as a backer. Great explanation on the review. Thanks Tom
Hi Trevor. So, did you make the right choice by pulling as a backer? did you play the game since then?
@@maksim9612 Saw it played a couple times, never had the desire to explore it
They either didn't playtest it enough or with people outside their sphere or ignored the playtester feedback which is common with new designers.
No need to apologise, Tom. You have clearly stated what your opinion is about Feudum and your arguments behind it, as is expected from a reviewer. It's actually a good thing you don't love every game you touch.
Some of you criticism I found a bit stilly: in my opinion the cube pawns are clever, the goods cubes are perfectly fine, pleasing the king makes sense thematically, and the shilling and South symbols not at all confusing. Personally, I'm more bothered that in the Merchant guild the prices are covered by the goods cubes. Also, the Royal Writ iconography could certainly have been clearer.
In your review it also seemed that you had misunderstood several rules, but I agree it is quite a lot to remember. While in other reviews I am sometimes annoyed that you missed some rules, here I really can't blame you. They are hard to grasp from reading the rulebook alone. This really is a game that you need to play at least several times to have a good idea what's going on, what kind of strategies would work, and by that time all the iconography and rules will make complete sense. But, then still I think the game is to fiddly for you, exactly for the same reason why I think it's a great game.
All in all, not an unfair review, nothing unexpected, but I will continue to love Feudum.
I don't normally like Vasel's reviews and I really like this game. With that said I think he did a good job of reviewing this game. This game isn't for most people and I think his review perfectly reflects that.
We got this to the table last weekend. I really enjoyed it. I agree about the combat. I loved the guilds, the push/pull/trade stuff is great. This one won't see the table a ton but when it does I'll look forward to it.
Nice, honest and personal review. Thanks.
Totally agree on this one. Game is fiddly, icons are non-intuitive and far too small. It is dry, overcomplicated, almost abstract euro. But... The art style is fantastic! The board is beautiful. Too bad the gameplay is not fun enough.
Thank you for your honest review. No need to apologies for not liking the game or bring negative points to the review. You're doing your job and we appreciate it.
Tom, I'm guessing you are not a fan of checking for dominance in Dominant Species? I think forced fighting is intended to balance upgraded feudoms, which allow control of powerful guilds. I didn't back this game but think it looks very interesting. Definitely looks like a game that takes a couple of plays to really get though. Still, I don't think it is any more fiddly than many alien interactions in cosmic incounter, which I own and enjoy.
Update: After multiple plays, this is the best game to come out in the last two years. In my opinion, nothing else is even close.
stenobro In Dominant Species, you check for dominance whenever a species enters leaves the board. In Feudum, you check one guild whenever you place an influence or feudum. Usually, you are not counting higher than 5 or 6. I think you are capable of that level of math, and Tom makes it sound much worse than it actually is.
One of my best buddy has the same opinion with you. I really want to have this game right now :D. Anyway, DS is my favorite area control game, this made your opinions more valid
Hi Ben. Looking back, what are you thoughts on Feudum?
@@maksim9612 still a beast to teach, and set aside 5 hours for your first playthrough. It can be completed in 3 hours of everyone knows how to play and is not prone to analysis paralysis. Still one of the best games in my collection of over 600, and would probably make my top 10 list. Game play is highly interactive, and there are many different viable strategies which are well balanced. I highly recommend Feudum.
how about the simple fix of using dice to track guild membership. Problem solved...
Thanks Tom for presenting a different angle than most (if not all) reviews about this game currently on TH-cam.
I almost backed it but got caught up in a tight financial situation. I was on the fence about whether I should just put a bit more debt on myself to back it. I did not, for reason got the best of me.
Then I saw that shipping was taking much more time than expected, then I had a good friend of mine who tried it at GenCon and told me he didn't really understand the whole gist of it (although he is really into heavy euro games).
He said I would probably like it though. So I went back and looked at different videos. But I always felt there was a missing piece; there was something wrong but I could never find what it was since I didn't play the game nor could I find any review presenting a more nuanced point of view.
But you finally did. And I'm glad. I'll definitely try it, but I won't buy it beforehand.
You're one of the only channels that allow to give negative or not so positive reviews. I appreciate that.
Keep the good work. Thanks again.
Great review. I really hope that I have a different opinion on this one as I'm waiting for my copy! I really appreciate the comment of "if this game had a stronger producer..." I think that is part of the curse of Kickstarter. No one in the project has the incentive to make the game smaller and tighter. I'd love to see a rundown of games that are better when you slim them down and tighten them up.
i remember when this game was on Kickstarter, and i loved the game explanation trailer, (maybe one of the best produced) but i watched it 3 times and still could not grasp what this game was exactly. Tom just showed off the base game and not the 3 or 4 expansions that come with it. if you added all of that together you would have a 150.00 beautiful collectible, that will almost never see the table. it is a shame though because this game looks so great, and innovative. i think the best point Tom made, was that this game needed a strong developer, or an editor to cut some stuff out and stream line it a bit.
+1
Yeah, I just bought the base game, and I'm fine with that. The game has so much going on, all my fellow gamers who love the heavier fare all agreed, the game does not need even more stuff with the expansions. This one is very hard to learn from a video too....gotta jump in and see how the guilds work to really start seeing it fall into place.
Just use dice to track guild membership and this game is AMAZING
Whelp, Tom and I definitely don't see eye-to-eye on this one. While there is a lot going on here, there is nothing really 'fiddly' as actions makes sense within the context of the game itself. It does have a near-constant need to check for 'dominance' but this is something we've all learned playing hours and hours of Dominant Species all those years ago. This is one of those games where when I lose I KNOW it was my fault as I was unable to see the through-lines to victory. We just don't get many of those anymore and I miss them. I hope that other little known/unknown designers will take more chances in their euro designs now that KS is a viable arena to bring a total passion project to life.
I hope many other little unknown designers take a chance and pitch these ideas to known publishers and have a developer look at the game thoroughly before sending it to print. I thought the game had a lot of cool ideas but a real publisher would never have printed a board that hard to read or tacked on that many ideas and options.
Got to play this for the first time last night. I agree with everything said. The people I played with used dice to show control, which we still had problems at times. I hate the monsters and how they lock down people, that can really ruin a game. I think I still liked it a little more than you, but agree and understand every one of your dislikes of the game. GREAT REVIEW!!
Tom's review is spot on to my own with one addition. The game is way too long for what it is. I love heavy euro games and I really enjoyed myself through about a third of the game. When the feudums starting popping up and the combat started I was pretty much done with the game...and it had hours to go. Two-thirds of the way through the game we knew who was going to win and we had an over an hour left to play. This was a first game for everyone and therefore a "learning" game, but I have no interest to playing again. There are numerous 3-5 hour games I would play before this one.
When you pay for a game this big and beautiful... you are FORCED to try to love it. Which we did... try that is. Tom really hits the nail on the head with every point. We played with friends who knew the game and it STILL required them to reference/refresh themselves and the game took 6 hours + a rushed unsatisfactory ending. The game is called feudum... but if you build one your odds of losing goes up significantly. My question is: WTF?
Hi Tom.
Thanks for the nice review here.
I really appreciate the more tip-toeing style you used for the criticism: in a sense, it is less "you" than usual, but I really liked how you went in depth about what is wrong, it is really useful for who still have to choose whether to buy it (me? I pre-ordered it already) :-)
Is this a new deal in your reviews? I may end up not disliking it, since you are really providing a better service overall. Of course, when the product you're reviewing deserves it, which is not always the case, as you are perfectly able to discern.
Thanks again for the really enjoyable video!
The most useful reviewers are those who actually once in a while put out argumentation for why something is not a good game.
Some reviewers only have endless lines of enthusiastically positive reviews. ... it might be because they are just glass-half-full kinda people, but you never learn how to use their recommendations if they never find anything they don't like.
So... good for you Tom.
as much as I'm liking the game I must agree 101% with Tom.
Wow, so many disclaimers from Tom :0
Is this the same guy who threw Vasco da Gama and dumbed Hawaii in a dustbin :P haha!!
The times they are a-changin' :D
By the wonderful art I expected it to be a friendly medium weight Euro. Thanks for the heads up Tom.
Wow, this is the first somewhat negative review I've seen of this so far. Pretty much what I've seen so far is love love love for this one. I guess I'll find out for myself when I get a chance to try it. Thanks for your honest opinion and thoughts Tom.
The Dice Odyssey this is potentially because the other reviews you have seen are paid reviews (undead viking, man vs meeple)
It's also the first unbiased one.
The thing, Tom did not backed this, he is not emotionally/financially invested. People that back a game wait a long time and pay a good buck, every backer of any given game should be taken with a grain of salt. Not saying nothing about any given game, just saying the ks campaign and stuff may affect someone in a very strong way, making them blind to what could be perceived as flaws of any given project/ idea/ thing.
This is a great game. But I never thought it to be on Tom's ballpark. I know he likes some heavy Euros, but this one doesn't look to me like it was something he would like. Too many linked rules and consequences for what seems to be his taste in games. With that said, I think more people will dislike this game because of the challenge it is to understand all the rules. Still, it's fun, it's engaging and there are a lot of ways to approach and win the game.
It takes some plays to get a really good understanding of this one and for a reviewer who didn't like it it takes considerable will to give it another go, because it's a long game if you play it with all new players. I think there are some things Tom didn't like, while there's a hint that the game got in his nerves a little bit (the cubic pawns critic is an example) .
Play it again Tom, with a crew that already knows the game. I don't think you will love it, but you'll have a better idea of the game.
So far I'm really enjoying this one.
(edited typos).
Life is too short to play mediocre games
This review reflects the exact impression I got from watching gameplay of this game.
The iconography is tiny, unclear and it's not distinguished from the game art.
it seems unplayable, I can't see how these problems got through testing.
All of the negative issues with the game PRODUCTION we agreed with BUT overall we (just about) loved the game itself. For the control of guilds we use colored dice (from Rajas of the Ganges).
Good amount of good points, but military service for feudal lords is thematic as hell, that's how it worked in Medieval) they weren't granted lands and privileges for nothing. And adding some steampunk elements and just a little bit of magic with monsters makes this world really unique, wonder why so few people point it out...
I am not sure what is so bad about the combat. Is it because how devastating it can be to lose a pawn, let alone a feudum?
All pawns, by default, have an attack of +1 and defense of +2. Monsters are +1/+1. If you attack a pawn or monster you add all the attack of your pawns and monsters and the defender adds all their defense from pawns and monsters. The attacker can spend 1 saltpeter to get a +1 attack. If the attacker has a knight, they can spend unlimited saltpeter. Attackers can also use weapons from Royal Writ cards. Defenders can use the defense card to get a +1 defense. If the attacker has more attack than the defender, the attack wins, and the defender removes their pawn.
Now I did say that pawns have a default attack and defense value. These are both reduced to zero if you used wine to feed them.
Attack a feudum is the same, expect the defender gets +2 def from the feudum and +1 from a subject. The attacker can get +1 from a serf.
Is this a parody? Because your explanation already clarifies what a mess it is.
What combat systems do you play where that is a mess? That is some pretty simple combat mechanics. You just add up the attacks and defense and compare.
Rising Sun has more complex and complicated combat than this.
I'm a big fan of the game, and I don't really disagree with Tom's points here. Yes, the warfare is overly complicated (but after you play a game or three, it's not as bad), and he's right. If you have a Feudum (the top level property designation), you do have to attack to please the king or you will not win. The card play is a lot of fun (taking the best/most extensive actions with the pawns you have is critical), and the interaction of the guilds hoping the other players move things along so you can get an extra special turn is just a blast.
Ug, I was introduced to this game today. Took 5 hours! ploughing through this tedious game. Waaaay too much going on to figure out what the hell I was supposed to do and too much work on game maintenance.
The fact that Tom had to view in so close to show the bubble lanes shows me that the board artist wanted to make a beautiful board and didn't think about the functionality of it. There could have been some great looking art that worked to make the board easy to read in the same great style.
Sub can move through any sea route. Ship can only go around the islands and up the river. I never had an issue with the bubbles, but I tend to explain it this way. But I guess it's an issue, if you want to make it one.
Thanks Tom, good and honest review as always. I was not sure about this game, but i know now i will love it ^^
Oh well... I can imagine a 2nd edition in the near future to fix some of these issues. I just hope there's an upgrade pack.
Given that you, Tom said that the game is very complex in a lot of ways, I'm wondering if "Feudum" would have been a more ideal board game to be turned into a full head-on computer sandbox game or app adaptation given that computers could help with the unneeded calculating and recalculating that the physical board game truly demands from players when playing 🤔
Nice, I made the right call by skipping this KS last year. It was clearly not for me, and I still dont get it even after this video. Thanx Tom !
finally a new review of feudum
Tom, Thanks for your honest opinion!
I really like your reviews because you always explain (in detail) why you like or dislike something.
And even point out plus points for games you didn't like and the other way around.
So I can make up my own mind if the things that bother you about a game would bother me to.
I think you're a great reviewer and I enjoy your enthusiasm, authenticity and honesty.
"...putting a rosary bead on a chicken doesn't make any sense..." good review or BEST review 🤣
I think it makes sense, priests (in game they are the monk guild) do often before and still now bless stuff for it to be better (bless fields that more crop would grow, or better crops would grow). In this situation as a blessing you give farm a blessing with a rosary bead, now it can hold more resources.
Great review. This game needed a good editor. Way to complex just for complexity sake.
Also forgot to mention it is way ....way .....way to long. 2-4hrs play time is ridicules. Such a shame I backed it, I had such high hopes for it. The artwork is amazing and the Kickstarter campaign was great.
queerchameleon if you watched the Kickstarter rules explanation then you would not be suprised that this is a long game. Tom has only explained a fraction of the rules.
queerchameleon i
I don't understand why the 2-4 hrs play time is ridiculous. Do you normally not like games that go over 2 hours?
This can take four hours the first time. About one hour to explain the rules and three with new players. I could easily see a full game of five taking 2 - 2.5 hours with experienced players.
+XShrike - That is a loooong game, even by euro standards.
we need more critics in boardgaming. Tired of paying 60$ plus because everyone is "friends" in the boardgaming industry. If it's meh I want to know its meh, if its shit tell me its shit. People get too attached over games / opinions in this hobby. Thank you for being honest. Also what did everyone expect from a first time designer. Publishers are good sometimes because they can detect shit and kickstarters let anyone release anything they want.
From Tom's description of the game alone, it sounds like the designer had enough ideas for two to three games and decided to just jam them all into one. Seems like it really should have been shaved down a lot and/or made into several games with the interesting ideas they do have.
Just played it and I agree with your review. There are some good things about it but other parts of the game make it hard to enjoy. I'd rather play other euro games.
I'm loving the artwork and color palette but I know this game won't get to the table in my gaming group 😏
Great review, Tom!
Played this the other day and took us 5 1/2 hours. I like heavy games but this just did not work. Too long and too fiddly. Completely agree with your review
TehDrunkBennet not even a civilization game but took you more than 5 hours ?
Damn I might pass out
I came here to make sure I'm not crazy. I laughed until I couldn't breathe when I watched that excellently produced rules video on the KS page when it launched.
This game needed very serious development. As it is it stifles me to see how many people can actually take this game seriously.
I'm sure many designers in a flurry of creativeness have come up with such overwrought ideas. Sometimes it is best to abandon pride of authorship and work with publishers to help you make your best game.
Always be yourself Tom. :) If everyone loved every game, there would only be ONE game to play. It's called TASTE. Everyone has different taste. Some may LOVE Feudum, others... not so much. Keep up the amazing work. :-D
I was a backer and have one play of this under my belt. My early impression is this game is really two completely different games smushed together. As a result, the game comes across as completely disjointed at points, which leads to a lot of the fiddliness. I agree with a lot of what Tom said here.
You lost me at "rosary bead on a chicken"
Heavy Cardboard has a 4p live play of this game. Here: th-cam.com/video/YcKUNfLKy1Q/w-d-xo.html
To Tom’s point: the rules explanation takes them 80 minutes; the gameplay afterwards goes for 3 hours.
This better be the best damn game ever or Tom has a point about needing a developer.
And it's not even their first game. They've played it before & are an extremely non-AP group. Some people on BGG are taking 5-6 hours for a first game w/ rules explanation, which makes it very hard to get to the table. It's going to be really hard to convince my friends to play this game over our other heavy games, which come in at 4 hours or less with new players, some AP, & rules teaching.
I have the game set up and ready to play a first session.
Absolutely agree that the board iconography is way too small and confusing, "look "over functionality is a poor decision. The small cubes are way too small! , they could of easily gone with standard small size 8mm cubes ( I may upgrade to these). The board , while beautiful is a rather muted washed out colour that does not pop like the vivid prototype versions seen in early videos . Another observation is the hexagon player pieces are not great quality at all, misshaped and not sanded smooth in some cases. Some poor faces on my player pawns too ( cubes). I love a good long and meaty Euro, so hope the gameplay lives up to expectations. Thanks for the honest review Tom!
Did you watch the; feudum complete rules + setup video. There are realy good videos explaining the rules and so forth. Dont think about giving the game a negative review, its already a great succés, this wont affect it :)
Even when you explained the rules I was like "wtf why is that even in the game" or "why do you have to do this now"... This game is definitely not for me.
I was saying the same thing when I was watching the learn to play video to decide to back it or not. I nodded off for a bit and woke up to it still going. That’s when I decided it wasn’t for me.
When will it be send to the backers?!
i have my copy already
Had mine for at least a week
I have had mine for about two weeks.
I'm an original backer and it is "ready for shipping" now, while 14 days ago I got a notification that it had been shipped from the Games Quest warehouse 312 miles from my home.
So, the iconography and the graphics are not quite up to par for a Euro, because it can be hard to see.
And the game has a huge learning curve, it is a complex game. This is not bad, this is an aspect of the game.
Not every game puts out on the first date, you have to work for it.
Good review and well explained summary. This definately seems like a game for people who enjoy complexity. This game desperately needs streamlining, even the terminology is unnecessarily confusing (serfs, epochs veneration points). The designer has not considered that many players will only likely play this game 1-2 times a year even if it was of a 10/10 standard.
ok I don't like this review for one main reason and I think it's a BIG one. Did nobody consider at any point in the game to use dice or some other tracking mechanism to visually track the guild membership?? Yes, the game without doing this is onerous and a flaw in the design, but it is EASILY fixed and helps assess the board state TREMENDOUSLY. I'm quite certain if someone applied this simple fix this review would have been much more reasonable and fair, but instead scares too many people away from the game. I was two years late to playing this game because of this review, that is why I think it is an extremely unfair review.
Lost me when I read 180min playtime....really like the artwork, but oh well.
I almost bought this, but I think I will skip it until I can get a chance to play somewhere. Not a Euro fan to begin with, so not going to take a chance on this one.
Their mistake was using a catapult.
After my brain nearly exploding from struggling through my turns of Lisboa, this does not sound like fun.
I loved Lisboa (although it's rarely played because it's so darn heavy), but even compared to Lisboa, this seems very difficult. I understood Lisboa the first time I watched Rahdo's playthrough. I watched heavy cardboard's full rules teach & playthrough, but I still don't understand a bunch of things.
Really TOM like combat games ?!
What I think I heard... Aesthetics are nice but not quite functional (1), the components are ok but the small multi color cubes representing the resources was function over form (1), Ease of play was dificult, had to refer to the rules often and was fiddly (0), Adventure part felt like an extra bit that didn't fit (0), Combat was not fun, complicated, and forced (0), area control was to fiddly as well, just no good mechanics to help the flow of play (0), the resource management with the use of the guilds seemed very satisfying (2), and the overall economics seems great (2), however the theme didn't always work (1), and the cards presented you with hard choices but there were clear winners if you drew them (1)... (8) I'd guess if pressed Tom would rate this about a 4 on BGG. I should check to see if he did.
Good review. It's unfortunate but there are some games that are really ambitious that come out of kickstarter but no matter how much you want to like it, it doesn't hold together as a game. Myth was pretty much like that too. I was interested in the game because it looks great and has a theme I like but when I watched a playthrough I knew it was a no go. It didn't look fun despite all of the mechanical stuff I generally like in games. I think you were quite generous in your review given that it really doesn't look like a good game at all. We tend to be more forgiving when we see all of the love and thought that goes in a grand design like this, we want to like it and try really hard to so it's sad to see something so grand flop.
Let's just stop creating innovative games with more than 3 rules that takes more than 30 minutes to play (including teaching). Because apparently the people who like that are mad!
Jokes aside though, I don't feel this review makes the game justice, negative or not. The sloppy explaination makes it sound stupid, when in reality a lot of it makes much more sense given some context. Not all games can be taught without playing a few times, and not all people have a problem with that. This review should just have been left out, or at least be cut shorter than 23 minutes given how uninformative it was.
Valid complaints with lots of compliments interspersed without
I've attempted to play Feudum 3 times, only finished it on the last try. It was fun, but it is too long, I hate the attacking, I hate that you have to attack if you go for Feudums, but part of me still likes the game. The art is fantastic, but they could have made some elements better to see and read. So for me it's a good game but not great. Lucky my friend kickstarted it not me.
At this point I'm not even sure what a heavy Eurogame is. I've played Vinhos, which by some is regarded as heavy. I think it's complexity is like a light wargame.
The only Eurogame I've played which is not light is Food Chain Magnate.
Tom this is not only a game. This is an adventure. We player hoe for several times (5). And for now we gonna understand the compexity of the different strategy. We recognice your frictions. But we can tell you the dissapear alter game 4.
Good luck with playing on in this game. We are Sire you gonna like it after all.
😎
A dry, boring-looking board with a bad instruction book and it's $60 to boot. What a game.
One sign a game is badly designed is the insane amount of rules. I am one of those who backed this game on ks. But when i watched the video provided by the designers themselves on youtube on how to setup the game completely turned me off. It took forever and the cubes were literally everywhere and it was just the setup.I think the art and the theme is what drawn the people to this game. Its been a week since the game arrived, and i didnt even bother to read the rules or play the game anymore. Message me if you wanna buy my copy. Up for sale
With Agra and now this, it's a shame that these very beautiful games are overdone and complex for complexity sake.
I found Agra to be somewhat of an easier learn....you're doing a lot of the same things...just have a ton of different ways to get it accomplished. I had Agra on my wishlist and pulled it after playing Feudum. I have enough heavy stuff that only gets occasional play....I don't need another collecting dust. I have a hard enough time getting games like this, Kanban, Great Western Trail, COIN games, etc to the table.
All the crying about how complex this is or that, it only shows you did not know the rules well.
Yes, the video was full of open weeping.
I'm playing tomorrow and I was already dreading it...
Let us know how it went.
A bad review won’t affect this game since they already sold all the copies they’re going to sell thru Kickstarter.
When you or Sam say that a game is bad I know it's going to be a good game.
To all those who are saying game is too long or fiddly for what it is, etc.: It is ok. It is a long, heavy game and it is clearly not for you. You not liking it doesn't make it a bad game. Target audience isn't you, so just pass and forget it. There is no need to discredit it.
The sweet spot of Dice Tower reviews is oriented on family weight games, so it's no wonder that this game gets a bad review. I was sure before i watched the review that it's going to be a negative review, so i watched it having fun with it that maybe i am wrong... i wasn't :)
Or to put it another way “You liking a game doesn’t make it a good game”. 😁
Agreed, but when you criticize a game because it is "long" and fiddly" it is just wrong I think. Many gamers including me like such games and don't like lighter ones for example. Everyone has their own tastes of course, I have no problem with that. But people should just use "for me" at the end of their sentences more I think to point out that their opinion is subjective and they acknowledge that.
Tom did say that this was just his opinion.
I am not talking about Tom, Derek. I am talking about some other commentors. Note that I am not talking about all negative commentors though, I am talking about some, not all.
I hate euro games and dont tend to play them. Terraforming Mars is as heavy as ive ever gone in terms of euro gwme complication. Yesterday, my friends force me to go through... this thing. Lots of whisky and shrugging rules of with we cant be arsed to read the rulebook again and we manager to get through this piece of crap in 4h. This was longest weirdest hardest game ive ever seen, oh my God, i thought i disliked euros ive played before, i HAAAAAAATE this thing
Too complex and fiddly with a horrible rulebook - those points alone will put me off the game, but i can see its audience.
This is almost exactly the review I expected from DT.. Big heavy euros don't really fly here. Maybe a few do from time to time, but it's OK to be true to what you like and don't.
Jim Crimmins So what you’re saying is that a heavy Euro will never get a good review on the DT because the DT never like heavy euros. Except for those heavy euros that they say are good and they like.
Cthulwho? No. You said that. I said that mostly they prefer lighter games, with exceptions. So this review was no surprise.
Yeah, anybody who expected Tom to have glowing words about this game hasn't been paying attention to Tom's tastes. More often than not, the heavier games are reviewed by other Dice Tower contributors. For example, Ryan Metzler reviewed every Vital Lacerda game except The Gallerist, which Tom hesitantly said he liked, but he thought was too long with too many bits and pieces, and that he'd probably never play it again. So if I were a gamer who tend to enjoy heavier games, I might pay attention to other reviewers' opinions on this one a little more closely - it's just in a different wheelhouse. This review is definitely valuable, though, for those who don't take as well to heavy stuff. Perhaps this one just has a way of deceiving players into thinking it's more Ameritrashy because of the art and the map. It's a thematic euro, in my opinion, but still definitely heavy enough and euro-y enough to exclude a lot of gamers.
I'm really hoping we'll see a review for this from Ryan too. Speaking of The Gallerist, I played that for the first time a couple of weeks ago and found it to be quite delightful. I got smoked by two players that had played before, but it was still a fantastic time. Really looking forward to playing it again, and for my copy of Feudum to arrive.
+Jim Crimmins - You can say that you already expected this review because Tom doesn't like heavy euros but almost all his issues with this game are issues that could apply to any game. The fiddliness, the need for a developer, the graphic design, etc.
Thanks Tom, I'm glad I cancelled my backing of this game.
Way too fiddly for my game group.
I just played this game... It was a painful experience. There are too many fiddly things, and way too many things to keep track of constantly. I think it would be a great game if they reduced the amount of stuff. It feels like there are 3 games in one, with no central objective. Game does look great, but again just way too many. Play Concordia instead.
Sounds like it was a too difficult game :)
the genre is right up my ally but frankly, this game strikes me like a mess.
Kickstarter ah ha hahahahahaha !!
Eh, I only like long epic games when they are immersive and thematic(TI4, Rebellion, etc). An extremely long cube pusher is a hard pass for me.
Good review, Tom. I'm sorry you felt the need to be so defensive in your comments.
Am the only one who thinks this game is actually kind of ugly, with its weird combination of knock-off Adventure Time whimsy and uncartoonlike portraits and the fact that the brightness appears to have been turned down too low on the graphics.
I've never been a fan of the artwork style. It feels amateur to me.
JDalkinn good grief... amateur??
it’s amazing how rude people can be when jumping on a negative review’s bandwagon...
this is a project that the designer has been laboring over for an unimaginable amount of time (in their day to day, how much was spent thinking about Feudum?). The artist is extremely talented and made what looks like the most original game board I’ve seen, regarding graphic design.
To passively join the bandwagon to say the art looks amateur is just painfully insulting and petty.
Curtis, I recognize that my opinion is likely a minority opinion, even in the comments on this video. That is hardly jumping on the bandwagon. I'll grant you "amateur" may be too strong--I'm just not a fan of this style, especially the artist's representation of people.
The art is nice indeed but the color scheme looks like it's painted by a colorblind person. These colors do not match and are kinda repulsive to watch. Esp. these variations of pink and violet.
antone1 Fair enough, as it is definitely stylized art. Personally the colors and style of the art is one of the biggest draws for me, as I enjoy the unique and funky look. But I can see it being polarizing.
antone1 in fact, the color scheme is FOR colorblind people, they even have (thankfully) given players an option to replace the small generic-green cubes for pink cubes, thereby making the entire game very clear for people with the “disability”.
don’t be rude for rude’s sake.
I understand it, but it doesn't mean I have to then like it when the colors are intentionally off. For me it is a dealbreaker - I have to like the game also visually. So I would pass on such games for disabled.