As a working instructor I fully agree with what is said here, unfortunately I am at the mercy of my boss, with often very limited time to complete a cert, some students are brilliant and understand the premise of buoyancy control from the outset, however there are many that do not. This is seemingly most prevalent in holiday certs. If I want to keep my job I have to adhere to a strict schedule and even when raising concerns about students readiness to start open water you may find you no longer have a job... If you're in a position to command or control said training it's amazing, unfortunately most of us Dive pros, especially those working in resorts don't have this freedom to teach.
I feel that dude. No loss of job threat. But definitely the ensuing and confusing conversation about further training. I say confusing because for some reason we don't have a price nailed down for it.
James, well said. I have been diving since 1973, and taught/assisted hundreds of students to dive, in the late 70's and early 80's. ALL of them while kneeling. We even had submerged platforms at the local quarry where we did our Check out dives, so the students had a place to kneel. After all these years, your video just made my head explode. I have always performed clearing and recovery drills ABOVE the students while neutral so I could be seen better. It never occurred to me that I was ingraining the need to kneel into their heads, BUT DAMN! Of course it did! This explains why most divers settle onto the bottom, or the wreck and some wonder why the fire coral got them, or they got urchin spines in their hands or lower legs. Mind blown... EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT Video. KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!
Great video as usual James! Recently I dove with a young man that was a newly certified diver,that was having an extremely hard time controlling his buoyancy...Upon exiting the water we asked him how much weight he was wearing...28lbs!!! To make a long story short ,by the time we were done he was wearing 12lbs..No doubt his instructor loaded him up so he would stay put on the platform and perform his skills.Not only was this dangerous it was extremely irresponsible and as my dive buddy that was with me said " he (the instructor)needs his ass kicked"...and I agree....There are to many instructors whose goal is "minimum standards" rather than producing safe well skilled divers.
Thank you for this video and I agree with this. I am a PADI SI and PADI has realized this to. We are encouraged to get away from the kneeling and teach everything from a Neutrally buoyant position. I agree that buoyancy is very important and we should be teaching this. I have started placing more of an importance on this in my training. Again thanks for the great videos and keep them coming. Also I was taught on my knees and during my IDC was taught to have them on the knees.
I wish I had you as my instructor when I learned to scuba dive with SDI. Yes, I was taught the "skills" first, along with kneeling down. Even in my certification dives, it was the same - everyone was kneeling and we went through the motions of the skills. Buoyancy control was talked about and stressed how important it is, but I still struggle with it. I was out of diving for a while and when I got back into the water for the first time after several years, everything came right back but buoyancy control is still a struggle. I feel like it wouldn't be had my beginning instructors had spent more time and focus on it.
Here's a fairly new diver's perspective. Yes, we were taught to kneel on the bottom of the pool in OW class. Our OW open water dives were in a quarry, on a platform, where we were told to stand on the platform or hold the rail while we did skills. Neutral buoyancy skill demonstration was basically "don't float away" for 5 seconds and was a crap shoot as most of us were holding the rail to stay anywhere near the dive site while waiting our turn. When we "graduated" we went to Mexico feeling like superdiver's and signed up to dive cenotes. We thankfully were met by an instructor who gently and kindly told us the truth about our diving and suggested we put in about 20 dives and work on skills before trying to advance. We did as he (and you on your videos) suggested, dived, and eventually did our AOW class with him. Now at 30 dives we have control over buoyancy and our skills are night and day better (cenotes are awesome btw). But here's my point. In the beginning the idea of neutral buoyancy being a skill we needed to master immediately was never explained. It was just something that eventually we'd get, no biggie. Both our OW and AOW certs are with the same agency but different instructors. In our class in the States it was never a question of passing the class or not but in Mexico I've witnessed several OW classes being taught with students better than we were at the beginning NOT being passed. The instructors at this dive shop work their butts off for their students and demand they demonstrate actual skill. IMO, you are correct on the kneeling issue. It didn't help us as students. It was just a crutch to lean on we had to throw away to learn how to dive.
I was taught with Kneeling on a sandy bottom but told never to touch the bottom otherwise. I hated kneeling as I used to get cramps within seconds. Only position it happened in. In the end instructor agreed I could do the skills in the hover. So much easier.
Thanks MC, same kneel>cramp experience just recently on refresher dive pool work. James, sending your link for this very constructive criticism to family soon starting their BOW, thanks.
Thanks for this video, totally agree. My instructor's principal position was to teach students in neutral boyancy, so I've been fully taught the open water in neutral boyancy. However, as far as I remember she mentioned that there were rules somewhere in the SSI/PADI standards that actually encouraged the students to kneel to do some basic skills.
I was taught buoyancy above all other skills at the beginning. My OWD instructor made me do most skills whilst not kneeling. Every time I did kneel he checked me again to make sure I could do it without. Really vital skill.
Great topic! On my very first experience, a Discovery Dive in Mexico, that is the very first thing they had us do when we got to the bottom, go on our knees and wait for the rest of the group to get down. As a fairly new diver(less than 20 dives), this is definitely something I will remember not to do. Keep up the great work! Cheers!
new instructor here. Recently have only seen and been taught the kneel. learned OW and AOW in college. took the AOW test in neutral buoyancy. but honestly can't remember how they taught it or how I learned. Trying to figure out how to teach it now. However, I am not really afforded much time for those students that don't really 'get it'. Life's tough, always gotta learn. Really appreciate this video and this insight. Thank you for being bold
So pleasuring to hear an Instructor preach about not kneeling. This topic should be closely followed by the type of diver who imitates a sea horse for the entire dive then like you said plummets to the sea floor, knees first to deploy their SMB from a huge reel. This is also one of many reasons I stopped diving with bsac clubs
diving for 20+ now and i recall that we took a knee on the first decent got neutral and never did again. looking back there is a lot that has changed in 20+ years. i would say that there are a lot that is not done any more but i had a rely old school instructor. recently i have seen what looks like a disco orgy on the training platform some kneeling & some standing and found out later that it was a fire department being trained. p.s. love the drumming
What a fantastic video, James. Thanks a lot, mate. Right now I’m in the last stages of my open water courses. Indeed, I was taught to kneel here in Chile. This video has helped me decide I will be using all the great knowledge you share as supporting info during my course. I have really learned a lot watching your videos. Thanks, again.
Yeap my dive school started with the basics on the knee as well (for the two very nervous students it was easier and better to get comfortable) we had two instructors for 6 students. One took care of the two and the other helped us get the bouyancy going and do more in nutral bouyancy and the kneeling was only in the pool. In the open water no kneeling at all. I like your argument and I think you are right!!!
I am 42 dives in I am going to be a technical diver.... eventually. This is the first I have heard of not kneeling. I think it sounds great I look forward to testing myself and seeing how I do...
I was surprised that I didn't kneel once during my OW but I never mentioned it. Right now I am more than thankful for my instructor especially considering I had issues learning to be neutrally buoyant. My instructor always told me to check my depth before, during (if possible), and after doing any skill.
Spot on James! Thanks for keeping it real. I came up in a dive center that drilled buoyancy and trim from day one, and thankfully as a divemaster spent a year with an instructor who skillfully imparted the idea and importance to all of his students in OW. It can be done, and it is not a difficult thing for new students to pick up. I was a little surprised when I moved to the coast to enroll in a 'Big' IDC and found that they drilled kneeling as a means of crowd control of the students... I hope as I continue to develop as an instructor, I am able to contribute to students learning good skills that will help them with underwater confidence.
Another great topic... in my open water l was taken to a platform about 10 feet underwater were we kneeled and did our skills... even at 1000+ dives l practice these skills in a nutral position. ( great use of time on a safety stop)... l still see people kneeling or standing though ... GREAT JOB ... KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK JAMES
As a new OW Diver I couldn't agree more - and wish there was heavier emphasis on buoyancy control. Thank you as always. This has led me to wish for 1:1 coaching to further develop my essential skills as a Diver before progressing to further advanced concepts.
A very relevant piece of info that needs to spread further. I am just in the middle of my SSI ITC and it clearly states, that control of buoyancy and a "natural" dive position are the first things that should be trained in the pool. Kneeling is not considered a dive position and instructors shall not apply or promote this posture for training.
Couldn’t agree more! Excellent content! I love that you even called out Rainbow Reef!! If they are producing a ton of instructors who all teach kneeling, that does not bode well for them. Keep up the great work!
Dressel divers in Coumel taught us to kneel during confined training, (which was necessary, because the pool was only 4' deep). Then, we were kneeling on the sandy bottom during our open water dives. We've learned to avoid kneeling around here because of: Try kneeling on the bottom of a Maine lake with 6"-24" of pudding-like mud under you............
I have been dong my open water cert this week, it involved a lot kneeling, and not much discussion around breathing, buoyancy, or trim ... we just did all the skills like a checklist and then the dives. I struggled somewhat in the sea and do feel like there isn't enough fundamentals discussion for beginners even though I did extensive reading before the course.
Once again a great video. I have learned my skills by kneeling, just because I made my OWD on a cruise ship because I did not know better. Wasn‘t ideal the least to say, and the teachers simply wanted us in the water to,have an open water experience. I learned to clear my mask the hard way as I dove once with a rented leaking mask in Belize, again a cruise, I cleared the mask litarelly the whole dive like 20 - 30 times, needless to say it was not the most pleasant dive. After 30 minutes I was out of air and had to explain myself how this could happen 🤷, it was around my first 10 dives ever. Long storry short, this nearly took me out of diving, luckily I didn‘t quit and I took some proper lessons and now I am a diver litirally every spare time I have (I choose holiday destinations not by the country but by the dive spots they can offer). But this again proofes me how important good instructors are, I don‘t know hoe many pationed divers we lost on the way just because of something like that. Oh and I do not kneel ever since 😂 Once again, thanks for your great videos keep diving! CU
Best Intro Ever! The shop I teach for greatly encurages mid water skills. I completey agree with you. All my students are taught bouyancy before we get into the majority of skills. I think regardless of the agency the instructor makes all the difference.
Indeed an important topic... I am PADI AOW EnA and my instructors left me very clear not to touch anything anywhere at any time... I have seen some GUE training videos and was impressed by their buoyancy control and the importance they assign to that... I thought I was myself a little obsessed with trimming and buoyancy but then I guess I am not that wrong... Fully agree that buoyancy should be taken far more seriously by some agencies/instructors. For some dive teaching centres the Peak Performance Buoyancy course is compulsory for AOW... Still, impressed with GUE how they take this from the very basics to the extent of specifying in writing the maximum allowance to consider a diver is keeping good neutral buoyancy when performing a task... Great content as always! Thanks a lot
I was taught in a kneeling position both in the pool and on the training platform in the quarry. I am still working on breaking the habit. My son (12 at the time) was taught the same way but he already knew the negative impact as we were discussing it before his training started. He does still kneel at times in the pool or on a platform but he is also a young teen and of course going through a lot of body changes. His lead location has shifted a good deal too.
I started with Discover Scuba with no idea whether I would want to continue or not - just on vacation and it seemed like it would be fun to try. It was clear that the instructors goal was to get us ready to experience a dive ASAP - we did learn kneeling. But then... I decided to keep going with the OWC. And we did do some basic buoyancy exercises but didn't talk about trim at all. I did watch the videos and read the book though, which did talk about trim and buoyancy so I had it in mind and was trying to copy the instructors and more experienced divers. I wonder whether vacation learners are less likely to read the book carefully. Not to let instructors totally off the hook. But the information was there.
Yup definitely was taught to kneel, but thankfully it is not a habit I developed. If I recall I only did it once during my certification. That video was amazing by the way, loved the intro 👌
I found this to be common for demonstrating tasks. There was a lot of talk about buoyancy and trim, but little about how to be good at it until I completed my Advanced course.
great channel mate, spot on about the whole industry just in it for the money now, and the counter intuitive way they make new instructors teach. I was lucky I had an old school Instructor for most of my training and have I issued over a thousand Certs in the last 10 years here in Phuket.
James -- I've been a holiday diver for just over 10 years, PADI AOW [just over 100 dives] and until I watched your 'That Diver' video, I _never_ heard that a diver shouldn't kneel on the bottom. I've done it a few times [I was always careful to pick a bare stretch of sand] either to adjust my BCD or just take in the view, but I promise to never do it again.
James, I fully agree. I have been instructor almost twenty year now. From very beginnig we have taken principle that after the first pool session during which the basics of diving is instructed, theer is a mine field (virtual) on the bottom i.e. the students should try to perform the skill while howering. This also improves their howering skills so the result is students with better than average boyacy.
I have seen plenty of fresh owd-divers struggling with their boyancy. And being an instructor, I try to help them as best as I can even when they aren't my students :D Luckily most Finnish divers who have had their owd-certifications abroad tend to realize that they do need a bit of prepping before they are ready to dive in the murky cold waters of our lakes and quarrys rather than warm clear waters of say Indoneasia :) And we (at at our club) are more than willing to help them around :)
Awesome video James! When I did my open water class we learned bouncy and breathing first and did the skills in the pool the first time kneeling so we could learn the skill and only worry about doing the skill and nothing else and then my instructor made us do them again while trying to maintain neutral in the pool to put it all together. When we moved to the ocean for the open water dives we were not allowed to touch the bottom or kneel at all.
Exactly the correct way to do it. At my dive center we dive the first of five cert dives on a sandbar running along the reef planning to gently set down on the sand since correct gear setup should also have been heavily covered in training and without fail within the five minutes we spend there all the newbie freakout is gone and now you have realistic open water efforts. Keep in mind most people come to learn to dive never even having been on a boat never mind a 5-10 minute ride into the BIG BLUE OCEAN. Apprehension is any dive instructors worst enemy which is why proper training across the spectrum of the planned experience is required.
Totally was taught to kneel for demonstration my skills. The differences in how we were taught was throw in my face while diving with my daughter just this last month. I will be trying to do the neutral bouyancy while doing my skills from now on.
In my IDC every skill and scenario had to be done in Neutral Bouyancy. There were point deductions im the IE if an exercise wasnt performed or eveluated in NB
Same here to perform in NB. But no point deduction, if you were to nervous or whatever, that you had to kneel cause it was just easier in that moment in the evaluation. But in reality, stay neutral buoyant. Totally
That's the new PADI standard, it is pretty recent, since 2019. Other agencies, like SDI, are less prescriptive and provide more flexibility to instructors regarding the sequence you teach various skills (you still have to teach all the same basic skills). But there is also more room for junior instructors to cut corners and still technically be within standards.
Dear James I would encourage all drivers regardless of training level to read Scuba Confidential an insider's guide to becoming a better scuba diver by Simon Pridmore. The audible version is amazing as well. I wish all training agencies would teach the real life practical application of out of air drills suggested in this book. This book should be mandatory in any AOW curriculum as part of instruction. Keep up the amazing work James!!!!
Your take on learning to do mask removal and other skills in a neutral position is excellent. I never thought of it till now but you are right on the mark. I'm a Dive master and licensed commercial diverwith several hundred dives and I wish this was taught to me as well as all the other people that I dive with this is something that could really come in handy
I was told to Neil in my open water apart from my last dive where I did everything neutrally buoyant and sometimes moving forward to be more real world
When I think back to my training, I think we normally were kneeling either on the bottom of a pool or a submerged platform, but not for the very last dive which was in a lake with practically no visibility. While it has been about 13 years since I was trained, I really don't remember ever getting the urge to kneel for any of that. Maybe since my first exposure to diving was a discover dive before the certification course? More likely just because I understood the skills and did exactly what was needed on instinct. My instructor did have to repeat a lot to learn it well.
Starting my open water cours next week, so I am as ‘green’ as you can be. Great tips that can give my a little head start. Now wait to see what my Instructor show and tell! 👍
My instructors strongly encouraged buoyancy. In the pool we would kneel (if we wanted) but open water we were encouraged to not kneel but could if we felt more comfortable doing so.
Just talked to some recent PADI grads from the IDC IE PADI is going to require very soon basic skills in neutral hover. I can get behind this 100%. But also there is the need to have those resort classes people who dump money into diving get a cert dive one or twice and year and keep diving affordable for us the serious life long divers.
finally someone is saying it! When I did my course we did learn TRIM and BUOANCY as the very first lesson! Every training and lesson we had to do in TRIM! We spend more time in the water than learning paperwork, and learned trim from the beginning! Not far away, we could see another diving-class that started and did pretty much everything kneeling from the start (guess it was PADI). They all tumbled like crazy while we had a pretty much perfect trim @ day 4 . Also: TRIM / BUOANCY is way easier if you use the backplate and wing from DIR-courses. If every school would use them, there wouldn't be so many students fumbling and tumbling underwater. But that doesn't sell the old and truly obsolete scubadiving-systems of regular Diving-shops, right?
Divers Ready I did a lot of the drills the second time through hovering because I felt like my time in the water is limited before I head to Bonaire, so I wanted to make the most of practicing good buoyancy control. I think the first time she was trying to give us the chance to get the drill down. It can be argued both ways, but it makes sense to train buoyancy control first.
I recently did my OWD course over again after not diving for 10 years. The worst part of it, was the strain on my feet from constantly kneeling instead of floating in the pool.
Hey James, i ve been teaching for some years now. As most instructors, i asked my students to kneel when i started. True, that makes control easier especially with large groups. But real life doesn't wait to bite you back. As soon you hit OW, you regret not to have spend more time teaching them skills NB. In fact if they spend most time in pool kneeling, you will struggle to control the same group as soon as you start exploring in OW. If my experience can be of any help, get the students practice all skills NB. PADI Skills order is poor to say the least, SSI gives the instructror the freedom to arrange the skills the way the like. Anyhow, i go for buoyancy first and get the students to practice all the skills NB. If they struggle i might get them to kneel (in the pool only) to master the skill sequence but will always ask them to redo it NB. that way when I bring them in OW, I m much more at rest knowing my students will hardly shoot up to the surface or crash at the bottom and most importantly they will enjoy diving even more.
I took scuba courses (semester long) in college not long ago and my first classes where we advanced from skin diving to scuba we knelt. HOWEVER, as soon as my coach taught us the basics of neutral buoyancy, we did everything neutrally buoyant. He expected us to master buoyancy quickly so we could then add skills--we all figured it out and it's made me a much better diver to be perfectly buoyant (no additional buoyancy class required). It's actually really uncomfortable for me to kneel on scuba in a pool now because my body knows how to operate perfectly in a good trim position. Kneeling is super awkward and really not helpful in developing any basic skills 👌.
One thing I think why students kneel in OW class is because lack of time. Most dive shop instructor tell student to do this is because they simply don't have time for every student get good buoyancy control and trim right from the start. (Many student even struggle to sink in the pool!) Buoyancy control and trim is really not something that you can teach, you get better at it the more you dive. Therefore, the only way for student to perform the skill is in negative buoyant position
Yep I agree totally and to be honest kneeling was actually not super easy without boyancy controll you start going up and down and up and down all the time and have to readjust your position or falling over and can't fly count how often I lost the focus on my instructor because I struggled kneeling (all on my open water) btw I did it with raid so they also do kneeling but we still had a big hug focus on boyancy and were taught diving with an complete empty BCD from the very beginning. So still a supporter of RAID
I like to do reg clear and partial mask clear kneeling and then spend some time swimming around the pool to get used to bouyancy and kicking. Then carry on the course. Sometimes depends on the student tho. With the really nervous ones i will spend a bit more time kneeling. Would rather adapt and spend longer kneeling than have someone completely lose confidence
PADI right? It was implied in my PADI DM course, if you do not follow the slate, PADI will not back you up in court. Hence one reason I left PADI. People are nervous about all the Skills, water in the eyes and crap like that. They just want to swim. I start my classes making sure the students mask fines fit properly (what snorkel). Then the next 10-20 is swimming under water on a 7 foot hose. They learn about buoyancy and weighting, as I have them hold a 5 lbs weight and have them move it up and down the body, watching their trim/pitch. When it does come time for skill, we all do the skill out of the water 10-20 times. They now understand and are confident in what they are doing, before they ever but water in their eyes.
The problem with swimming around is that it masks buoyancy issues. The only test of buoyancy is hovering and controlled descents/ascents (and task loading while hovering/ascending/descending).
Hey James I like the reference to Rainbow Reef in that video. I went on a few dives with them and this place has very unsafe practices. No wonder why instructor in the mills case was trained there and that you mention the example in that video. I will never go dive with this shop again. I would be curious to know your actual views on this place
Yes i was taught to KNEEL as soon as got into the pool, and keep kneeling the entire hour or so, to the point that leg cramps are common. However it didnt catch on because i dislike kneeling in the first place, and i soon moved go kneeling like my DM did, with one leg up. And soon later out in the sea and the next 30 dives i,'ve had, i never never kneel ever again.
Yes I got my cert in Cairns and we did that a lot. I've done a few discoery dives here and were told to kneel when the instructor wanted to show us something (e.g. stingray hidding under the sand?)
Dang I definitely was in in this habit I’ll have to break out of it... I’d go down to the floor, kneel, tighten up mask and gear check all kneeling kind of instinctively then swim away?? Not on the next dive! Thanks
We did pray a little bit in the pool and used a platform for the open water skills. But I am a shark by profession so I have learned to always hover readying for the strike.
I do get my students to kneel for the very first skills, reg recovery & mask replacement. But even for Discover Scuba (PADIspeak for an intro dive) they are working on neutral buoyancy within 10min. I'm proud to say most of my Discover Scuba participants have better buoyancy skills than the majority of OW divers. 😁 I'll have to get them to try mask replacement in mid water by the end of the DS & DSD session 🙂
Yep buoyancy is given a lot of lip service, but during practice it is often shrugged away. My 1st and 2nd qualifications all the skills were done from kneeling (which with a bit of swell action can be rally hard to stay put). In my 3rd qualification (ie. after racking up a few dozen dives) some skills were midwater. In my IDC, kneeling was again the thing. People take some time to develop neutral buoyancy (some much more than others). 4 training dives until certification is not enough time IMO. I'm OK with skills being introduced kneeling at the bottom of a pool (or a training platform) for a complete novice trainee. They are useful in preventing panic, so I wouldn't delay them until buoyancy is achieved. But then the skills should be revisited before the first certification and build up to doing them from a neutral position.
I did not passed thru pool. Because my instructor saw that I was comfortable swimming 🏊 (snorkeling) above the surface of the sea. So Me and my instructor directly went to the shallower part of the sea and guess what after briefing of what skills to do we went UW and he gave the infamous sign to KNEEL yes KNEEL and he showed the skill to be done and I followed suit while we were KNEELING. So glad we were kneeling in soft sand in shallow water. So for me in Basic open Water the first skill UW I learned was kneeling 🧎♂️ 🧎♀️ I won’t forget it. It gave my instructor 👨🏫 ease and control of the sequence of skills to be done.
There wasn’t alot of focus on buoyancy in my class. Whenever I tried to kneel as instructed, I kept pitching forward. I was told to press my hips forward to stay up. I did this but kept pitching forward. I was having anxiety, the instructor said I need to be more comfortable in the water. I still don’t know exactly why I couldn’t kneel but it kept me from paying attention and disrupted the class.
Love the discussion, love the channel! So whilst a culprit of said behavior (similarly due to being taught from OW to OWSI), my question is more on why our standards agencies don’t make the change? Yes there is the cash cow way but some of the agencies out there are very progressive and I would think that they would push positive behavior. Thanks for making me think!
To kneel or not to kneel. I think what more important is how the instructor(s) taught them. If the instructor embed the students with the correct mindset(s) - which is how to improve their dive performance and remind them about those 4 pillars - the students will born as divers with attitude, and not as shitty divers who don't know (or even don't care) how to improve their trim and buoyancy.
I am working through my open water. The instructor made sure early that I could work on my bouyancy. However... The bladder air pressure controls are very sensitive - it will take some time for me instinctively stop yo-yo depth. I know it is my homework.
Hi James. Great video. Do you still certify for agencies that teach via the kneeling method and if so how do you get around the fact that they teach from the knees.
No agency (to my knowledge) insists on practicing on your knees, so if Instructors choose not to, they are not breaking standards. It's more a matter of proper training Vs taking shortcuts.
Divers Ready don’t think it’s a matter of them insisting but most of them shoot their skills videos whilst kneeling so in the typical club set up with volunteer instructors, it can be difficult to break through to the better way.
I agree. But I'm not sure I would have done when I was first taking my open water. It depends on the objectives of the newby diver. Maybe if someone is only wanting to be able to be an underwater tourist for a couple of dives a year all they need is to know they wont die if they lose a mask or a regulator. By kneeling and taking off their mask or doing a reg recovery they have at least experienced what it feels like and are less likely to panic in the event of the real thing. If, on the other hand, they want to be a good all round recreational diver then they may be more prepared to do the necessary work on their buoyancy. When I took my OW I just wanted to be a safe underwater tourist. It was only afterwards that I got the bug and wanted to be a good diver. I think PADI serves underwater tourists with little time or commitment well. Beyond that, it's about seeking out the right mentors and learning the skills and the science.
I have had to crawl on the ocean floor like you are scaling a mountain but that was kind of life or death due to a current. SSI trained back in '07 and was trained with kneeling but was also then taught buoyancy in my OW class by my instructor. This P.B. class thing is ridiculous imho.
I refused to kneel. Somehow it’s harder for me to kneel than to Skills while hovering 🤷🏻♂️ good video makes me want to go diving but the corona virus made all our dive Centers close until April 19 -,-
My dive club has canceled all training and scuba lessons until the middle of April, maybe even longer than that depending on the circumstances :(((((( Thanks to COVID-19. I hope it's only those four weeks and not longer. I already miss going diving. I am so looking forward to finally getting my certification. But that may take a while due to coronavirus lockdowns etc. I definitely get where you are coming from...
Eva Z. I planned to do the final courses for my divemaster and I wanted to start becoming an DLRG rescue diver before the season kicks off 😕 ffs corona virus. And no toilet paper in the shops anymore 😭
@@diveinstructordaniel1095 Are you from Germany? I was wondering due to the use of 'DLRG' (Deutsche Lebensrettungsgesellschaft)... Stay healthy, greetings from Hamburg
As a working instructor I fully agree with what is said here, unfortunately I am at the mercy of my boss, with often very limited time to complete a cert, some students are brilliant and understand the premise of buoyancy control from the outset, however there are many that do not. This is seemingly most prevalent in holiday certs. If I want to keep my job I have to adhere to a strict schedule and even when raising concerns about students readiness to start open water you may find you no longer have a job... If you're in a position to command or control said training it's amazing, unfortunately most of us Dive pros, especially those working in resorts don't have this freedom to teach.
Navim , couldn’t agree with you more! Pinned your comment, Mate! Thanks for watching. James
I feel that dude. No loss of job threat. But definitely the ensuing and confusing conversation about further training. I say confusing because for some reason we don't have a price nailed down for it.
This intro has me dying James 😂
I believe that this kneeling to do skills has inadvertently made reef dozers. Great topic for all Divers to discuss and work on getting away from.
James, well said. I have been diving since 1973, and taught/assisted hundreds of students to dive, in the late 70's and early 80's. ALL of them while kneeling. We even had submerged platforms at the local quarry where we did our Check out dives, so the students had a place to kneel.
After all these years, your video just made my head explode. I have always performed clearing and recovery drills ABOVE the students while neutral so I could be seen better. It never occurred to me that I was ingraining the need to kneel into their heads, BUT DAMN! Of course it did! This explains why most divers settle onto the bottom, or the wreck and some wonder why the fire coral got them, or they got urchin spines in their hands or lower legs.
Mind blown... EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT Video. KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!
This opening was completely hilarious
Great video as usual James! Recently I dove with a young man that was a newly certified diver,that was having an extremely hard time controlling his buoyancy...Upon exiting the water we asked him how much weight he was wearing...28lbs!!! To make a long story short ,by the time we were done he was wearing 12lbs..No doubt his instructor loaded him up so he would stay put on the platform and perform his skills.Not only was this dangerous it was extremely irresponsible and as my dive buddy that was with me said " he (the instructor)needs his ass kicked"...and I agree....There are to many instructors whose goal is "minimum standards" rather than producing safe well skilled divers.
That intro was hilarious!!!!! BRAVO James, Bravo!
Thank you for this video and I agree with this. I am a PADI SI and PADI has realized this to. We are encouraged to get away from the kneeling and teach everything from a Neutrally buoyant position. I agree that buoyancy is very important and we should be teaching this. I have started placing more of an importance on this in my training. Again thanks for the great videos and keep them coming. Also I was taught on my knees and during my IDC was taught to have them on the knees.
I wish I had you as my instructor when I learned to scuba dive with SDI. Yes, I was taught the "skills" first, along with kneeling down. Even in my certification dives, it was the same - everyone was kneeling and we went through the motions of the skills. Buoyancy control was talked about and stressed how important it is, but I still struggle with it. I was out of diving for a while and when I got back into the water for the first time after several years, everything came right back but buoyancy control is still a struggle. I feel like it wouldn't be had my beginning instructors had spent more time and focus on it.
Here's a fairly new diver's perspective. Yes, we were taught to kneel on the bottom of the pool in OW class. Our OW open water dives were in a quarry, on a platform, where we were told to stand on the platform or hold the rail while we did skills. Neutral buoyancy skill demonstration was basically "don't float away" for 5 seconds and was a crap shoot as most of us were holding the rail to stay anywhere near the dive site while waiting our turn. When we "graduated" we went to Mexico feeling like superdiver's and signed up to dive cenotes. We thankfully were met by an instructor who gently and kindly told us the truth about our diving and suggested we put in about 20 dives and work on skills before trying to advance. We did as he (and you on your videos) suggested, dived, and eventually did our AOW class with him. Now at 30 dives we have control over buoyancy and our skills are night and day better (cenotes are awesome btw). But here's my point. In the beginning the idea of neutral buoyancy being a skill we needed to master immediately was never explained. It was just something that eventually we'd get, no biggie. Both our OW and AOW certs are with the same agency but different instructors. In our class in the States it was never a question of passing the class or not but in Mexico I've witnessed several OW classes being taught with students better than we were at the beginning NOT being passed. The instructors at this dive shop work their butts off for their students and demand they demonstrate actual skill. IMO, you are correct on the kneeling issue. It didn't help us as students. It was just a crutch to lean on we had to throw away to learn how to dive.
I was taught with Kneeling on a sandy bottom but told never to touch the bottom otherwise. I hated kneeling as I used to get cramps within seconds. Only position it happened in. In the end instructor agreed I could do the skills in the hover. So much easier.
Thanks MC, same kneel>cramp experience just recently on refresher dive pool work. James, sending your link for this very constructive criticism to family soon starting their BOW, thanks.
Thanks for this video, totally agree. My instructor's principal position was to teach students in neutral boyancy, so I've been fully taught the open water in neutral boyancy. However, as far as I remember she mentioned that there were rules somewhere in the SSI/PADI standards that actually encouraged the students to kneel to do some basic skills.
I was taught buoyancy above all other skills at the beginning. My OWD instructor made me do most skills whilst not kneeling. Every time I did kneel he checked me again to make sure I could do it without. Really vital skill.
Great topic! On my very first experience, a Discovery Dive in Mexico, that is the very first thing they had us do when we got to the bottom, go on our knees and wait for the rest of the group to get down. As a fairly new diver(less than 20 dives), this is definitely something I will remember not to do. Keep up the great work! Cheers!
new instructor here. Recently have only seen and been taught the kneel. learned OW and AOW in college. took the AOW test in neutral buoyancy. but honestly can't remember how they taught it or how I learned. Trying to figure out how to teach it now. However, I am not really afforded much time for those students that don't really 'get it'. Life's tough, always gotta learn. Really appreciate this video and this insight. Thank you for being bold
So pleasuring to hear an Instructor preach about not kneeling. This topic should be closely followed by the type of diver who imitates a sea horse for the entire dive then like you said plummets to the sea floor, knees first to deploy their SMB from a huge reel.
This is also one of many reasons I stopped diving with bsac clubs
diving for 20+ now and i recall that we took a knee on the first decent got neutral and never did again. looking back there is a lot that has changed in 20+ years. i would say that there are a lot that is not done any more but i had a rely old school instructor. recently i have seen what looks like a disco orgy on the training platform some kneeling & some standing and found out later that it was a fire department being trained. p.s. love the drumming
What a fantastic video, James. Thanks a lot, mate.
Right now I’m in the last stages of my open water courses. Indeed, I was taught to kneel here in Chile. This video has helped me decide I will be using all the great knowledge you share as supporting info during my course. I have really learned a lot watching your videos. Thanks, again.
Yeap my dive school started with the basics on the knee as well (for the two very nervous students it was easier and better to get comfortable) we had two instructors for 6 students. One took care of the two and the other helped us get the bouyancy going and do more in nutral bouyancy and the kneeling was only in the pool. In the open water no kneeling at all. I like your argument and I think you are right!!!
I am 42 dives in I am going to be a technical diver.... eventually. This is the first I have heard of not kneeling. I think it sounds great I look forward to testing myself and seeing how I do...
I was surprised that I didn't kneel once during my OW but I never mentioned it. Right now I am more than thankful for my instructor especially considering I had issues learning to be neutrally buoyant. My instructor always told me to check my depth before, during (if possible), and after doing any skill.
Love it man totally raw. As a new diver I did all my skills kneeling and never thought twice about it until today very good point.
Spot on James! Thanks for keeping it real. I came up in a dive center that drilled buoyancy and trim from day one, and thankfully as a divemaster spent a year with an instructor who skillfully imparted the idea and importance to all of his students in OW. It can be done, and it is not a difficult thing for new students to pick up. I was a little surprised when I moved to the coast to enroll in a 'Big' IDC and found that they drilled kneeling as a means of crowd control of the students... I hope as I continue to develop as an instructor, I am able to contribute to students learning good skills that will help them with underwater confidence.
Another great topic... in my open water l was taken to a platform about 10 feet underwater were we kneeled and did our skills... even at 1000+ dives l practice these skills in a nutral position. ( great use of time on a safety stop)... l still see people kneeling or standing though ... GREAT JOB ... KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK JAMES
As a somewhat new diver I have done some of the things you spoke of on my own, during the course it was kneel for everything.
As a new OW Diver I couldn't agree more - and wish there was heavier emphasis on buoyancy control. Thank you as always. This has led me to wish for 1:1 coaching to further develop my essential skills as a Diver before progressing to further advanced concepts.
Best entry and best ending 😄 thanks James great as always
A very relevant piece of info that needs to spread further.
I am just in the middle of my SSI ITC and it clearly states, that control of buoyancy and a "natural" dive position are the first things that should be trained in the pool. Kneeling is not considered a dive position and instructors shall not apply or promote this posture for training.
Couldn’t agree more! Excellent content! I love that you even called out Rainbow Reef!! If they are producing a ton of instructors who all teach kneeling, that does not bode well for them. Keep up the great work!
Dressel divers in Coumel taught us to kneel during confined training, (which was necessary, because the pool was only 4' deep). Then, we were kneeling on the sandy bottom during our open water dives.
We've learned to avoid kneeling around here because of:
Try kneeling on the bottom of a Maine lake with 6"-24" of pudding-like mud under you............
Amen, Chris! That 6"-24" pudding-like mud instantly kills visibility when stirred up.
I have been dong my open water cert this week, it involved a lot kneeling, and not much discussion around breathing, buoyancy, or trim ... we just did all the skills like a checklist and then the dives. I struggled somewhat in the sea and do feel like there isn't enough fundamentals discussion for beginners even though I did extensive reading before the course.
Once again a great video. I have learned my skills by kneeling, just because I made my OWD on a cruise ship because I did not know better. Wasn‘t ideal the least to say, and the teachers simply wanted us in the water to,have an open water experience. I learned to clear my mask the hard way as I dove once with a rented leaking mask in Belize, again a cruise, I cleared the mask litarelly the whole dive like 20 - 30 times, needless to say it was not the most pleasant dive. After 30 minutes I was out of air and had to explain myself how this could happen 🤷, it was around my first 10 dives ever.
Long storry short, this nearly took me out of diving, luckily I didn‘t quit and I took some proper lessons and now I am a diver litirally every spare time I have (I choose holiday destinations not by the country but by the dive spots they can offer). But this again proofes me how important good instructors are, I don‘t know hoe many pationed divers we lost on the way just because of something like that.
Oh and I do not kneel ever since 😂
Once again, thanks for your great videos keep diving!
CU
Best Intro Ever! The shop I teach for greatly encurages mid water skills. I completey agree with you. All my students are taught bouyancy before we get into the majority of skills. I think regardless of the agency the instructor makes all the difference.
Thanks for sharing! I couldn't agree more! James
Indeed an important topic... I am PADI AOW EnA and my instructors left me very clear not to touch anything anywhere at any time... I have seen some GUE training videos and was impressed by their buoyancy control and the importance they assign to that... I thought I was myself a little obsessed with trimming and buoyancy but then I guess I am not that wrong...
Fully agree that buoyancy should be taken far more seriously by some agencies/instructors. For some dive teaching centres the Peak Performance Buoyancy course is compulsory for AOW... Still, impressed with GUE how they take this from the very basics to the extent of specifying in writing the maximum allowance to consider a diver is keeping good neutral buoyancy when performing a task...
Great content as always! Thanks a lot
I was taught in a kneeling position both in the pool and on the training platform in the quarry. I am still working on breaking the habit. My son (12 at the time) was taught the same way but he already knew the negative impact as we were discussing it before his training started. He does still kneel at times in the pool or on a platform but he is also a young teen and of course going through a lot of body changes. His lead location has shifted a good deal too.
This has been my favorite video by you. Hope your ear is healing well!!!
I have been saying this since the 90's. Keep it up.
Love the Phil Collins insert!
I started with Discover Scuba with no idea whether I would want to continue or not - just on vacation and it seemed like it would be fun to try. It was clear that the instructors goal was to get us ready to experience a dive ASAP - we did learn kneeling.
But then... I decided to keep going with the OWC. And we did do some basic buoyancy exercises but didn't talk about trim at all. I did watch the videos and read the book though, which did talk about trim and buoyancy so I had it in mind and was trying to copy the instructors and more experienced divers.
I wonder whether vacation learners are less likely to read the book carefully. Not to let instructors totally off the hook. But the information was there.
Yup definitely was taught to kneel, but thankfully it is not a habit I developed. If I recall I only did it once during my certification.
That video was amazing by the way, loved the intro 👌
I found this to be common for demonstrating tasks. There was a lot of talk about buoyancy and trim, but little about how to be good at it until I completed my Advanced course.
great channel mate, spot on about the whole industry just in it for the money now, and the counter intuitive way they make new instructors teach. I was lucky I had an old school Instructor for most of my training and have I issued over a thousand Certs in the last 10 years here in Phuket.
James -- I've been a holiday diver for just over 10 years, PADI AOW [just over 100 dives] and until I watched your 'That Diver' video, I _never_ heard that a diver shouldn't kneel on the bottom. I've done it a few times [I was always careful to pick a bare stretch of sand] either to adjust my BCD or just take in the view, but I promise to never do it again.
I’m in the middle of my open water training and my instructor definitely has had me kneel.
James, I fully agree. I have been instructor almost twenty year now. From very beginnig we have taken principle that after the first pool session during which the basics of diving is instructed, theer is a mine field (virtual) on the bottom i.e. the students should try to perform the skill while howering. This also improves their howering skills so the result is students with better than average boyacy.
I have seen plenty of fresh owd-divers struggling with their boyancy. And being an instructor, I try to help them as best as I can even when they aren't my students :D Luckily most Finnish divers who have had their owd-certifications abroad tend to realize that they do need a bit of prepping before they are ready to dive in the murky cold waters of our lakes and quarrys rather than warm clear waters of say Indoneasia :) And we (at at our club) are more than willing to help them around :)
👏👏👏Well done with the Phil Collins reference.
Awesome video James! When I did my open water class we learned bouncy and breathing first and did the skills in the pool the first time kneeling so we could learn the skill and only worry about doing the skill and nothing else and then my instructor made us do them again while trying to maintain neutral in the pool to put it all together. When we moved to the ocean for the open water dives we were not allowed to touch the bottom or kneel at all.
Exactly the correct way to do it. At my dive center we dive the first of five cert dives on a sandbar running along the reef planning to gently set down on the sand since correct gear setup should also have been heavily covered in training and without fail within the five minutes we spend there all the newbie freakout is gone and now you have realistic open water efforts. Keep in mind most people come to learn to dive never even having been on a boat never mind a 5-10 minute ride into the BIG BLUE OCEAN. Apprehension is any dive instructors worst enemy which is why proper training across the spectrum of the planned experience is required.
Totally was taught to kneel for demonstration my skills. The differences in how we were taught was throw in my face while diving with my daughter just this last month. I will be trying to do the neutral bouyancy while doing my skills from now on.
Thanks for watching! Dive safe.
In my IDC every skill and scenario had to be done in Neutral Bouyancy. There were point deductions im the IE if an exercise wasnt performed or eveluated in NB
Same here to perform in NB. But no point deduction, if you were to nervous or whatever, that you had to kneel cause it was just easier in that moment in the evaluation. But in reality, stay neutral buoyant. Totally
That's the new PADI standard, it is pretty recent, since 2019. Other agencies, like SDI, are less prescriptive and provide more flexibility to instructors regarding the sequence you teach various skills (you still have to teach all the same basic skills). But there is also more room for junior instructors to cut corners and still technically be within standards.
Dear James I would encourage all drivers regardless of training level to read Scuba Confidential an insider's guide to becoming a better scuba diver by Simon Pridmore. The audible version is amazing as well. I wish all training agencies would teach the real life practical application of out of air drills suggested in this book. This book should be mandatory in any AOW curriculum as part of instruction. Keep up the amazing work James!!!!
Great book, for maybe anything above AOW. Most AOWs are still bubble watchers.
What a nice video..... great into... and judicious...... way the go James!
Your take on learning to do mask removal and other skills in a neutral position is excellent. I never thought of it till now but you are right on the mark. I'm a Dive master and licensed commercial diverwith several hundred dives and I wish this was taught to me as well as all the other people that I dive with this is something that could really come in handy
Superb. Well done.
I was told to Neil in my open water apart from my last dive where I did everything neutrally buoyant and sometimes moving forward to be more real world
When I think back to my training, I think we normally were kneeling either on the bottom of a pool or a submerged platform, but not for the very last dive which was in a lake with practically no visibility. While it has been about 13 years since I was trained, I really don't remember ever getting the urge to kneel for any of that. Maybe since my first exposure to diving was a discover dive before the certification course? More likely just because I understood the skills and did exactly what was needed on instinct. My instructor did have to repeat a lot to learn it well.
Starting my open water cours next week, so I am as ‘green’ as you can be. Great tips that can give my a little head start. Now wait to see what my Instructor show and tell! 👍
How did your course go? Knees or no knees?
I was taught last year and I spent so much time kneeling I was sweating behind my knees underwater!!!
My instructors strongly encouraged buoyancy. In the pool we would kneel (if we wanted) but open water we were encouraged to not kneel but could if we felt more comfortable doing so.
Just talked to some recent PADI grads from the IDC IE PADI is going to require very soon basic skills in neutral hover. I can get behind this 100%. But also there is the need to have those resort classes people who dump money into diving get a cert dive one or twice and year and keep diving affordable for us the serious life long divers.
finally someone is saying it!
When I did my course we did learn TRIM and BUOANCY as the very first lesson!
Every training and lesson we had to do in TRIM!
We spend more time in the water than learning paperwork, and learned trim from the beginning!
Not far away, we could see another diving-class that started and did pretty much everything kneeling from the start (guess it was PADI).
They all tumbled like crazy while we had a pretty much perfect trim @ day 4 .
Also: TRIM / BUOANCY is way easier if you use the backplate and wing from DIR-courses.
If every school would use them, there wouldn't be so many students fumbling and tumbling underwater.
But that doesn't sell the old and truly obsolete scubadiving-systems of regular Diving-shops, right?
Just did my OW confined dive last week... we kneeled.
I'm sorry to hear that.
Divers Ready I did a lot of the drills the second time through hovering because I felt like my time in the water is limited before I head to Bonaire, so I wanted to make the most of practicing good buoyancy control. I think the first time she was trying to give us the chance to get the drill down. It can be argued both ways, but it makes sense to train buoyancy control first.
excellent topic!
I recently did my OWD course over again after not diving for 10 years. The worst part of it, was the strain on my feet from constantly kneeling instead of floating in the pool.
Hey James, i ve been teaching for some years now. As most instructors, i asked my students to kneel when i started. True, that makes control easier especially with large groups. But real life doesn't wait to bite you back. As soon you hit OW, you regret not to have spend more time teaching them skills NB. In fact if they spend most time in pool kneeling, you will struggle to control the same group as soon as you start exploring in OW. If my experience can be of any help, get the students practice all skills NB. PADI Skills order is poor to say the least, SSI gives the instructror the freedom to arrange the skills the way the like. Anyhow, i go for buoyancy first and get the students to practice all the skills NB. If they struggle i might get them to kneel (in the pool only) to master the skill sequence but will always ask them to redo it NB. that way when I bring them in OW, I m much more at rest knowing my students will hardly shoot up to the surface or crash at the bottom and most importantly they will enjoy diving even more.
I took scuba courses (semester long) in college not long ago and my first classes where we advanced from skin diving to scuba we knelt. HOWEVER, as soon as my coach taught us the basics of neutral buoyancy, we did everything neutrally buoyant. He expected us to master buoyancy quickly so we could then add skills--we all figured it out and it's made me a much better diver to be perfectly buoyant (no additional buoyancy class required). It's actually really uncomfortable for me to kneel on scuba in a pool now because my body knows how to operate perfectly in a good trim position. Kneeling is super awkward and really not helpful in developing any basic skills 👌.
One thing I think why students kneel in OW class is because lack of time. Most dive shop instructor tell student to do this is because they simply don't have time for every student get good buoyancy control and trim right from the start. (Many student even struggle to sink in the pool!) Buoyancy control and trim is really not something that you can teach, you get better at it the more you dive. Therefore, the only way for student to perform the skill is in negative buoyant position
Yep I agree totally and to be honest kneeling was actually not super easy without boyancy controll you start going up and down and up and down all the time and have to readjust your position or falling over and can't fly count how often I lost the focus on my instructor because I struggled kneeling (all on my open water) btw I did it with raid so they also do kneeling but we still had a big hug focus on boyancy and were taught diving with an complete empty BCD from the very beginning. So still a supporter of RAID
Why-o-why can I only give this video a single thumb up!?
Thanks trond!
I like to do reg clear and partial mask clear kneeling and then spend some time swimming around the pool to get used to bouyancy and kicking. Then carry on the course. Sometimes depends on the student tho. With the really nervous ones i will spend a bit more time kneeling. Would rather adapt and spend longer kneeling than have someone completely lose confidence
PADI right? It was implied in my PADI DM course, if you do not follow the slate, PADI will not back you up in court. Hence one reason I left PADI. People are nervous about all the Skills, water in the eyes and crap like that. They just want to swim.
I start my classes making sure the students mask fines fit properly (what snorkel). Then the next 10-20 is swimming under water on a 7 foot hose. They learn about buoyancy and weighting, as I have them hold a 5 lbs weight and have them move it up and down the body, watching their trim/pitch.
When it does come time for skill, we all do the skill out of the water 10-20 times. They now understand and are confident in what they are doing, before they ever but water in their eyes.
The problem with swimming around is that it masks buoyancy issues. The only test of buoyancy is hovering and controlled descents/ascents (and task loading while hovering/ascending/descending).
@@shuntao3475 cool
@@__-oq8gz ok
thats why you teach trim and buoyancy as the VER FIRST THING and spend as much time in the water as possible with your students!
Better late than pregnant... 😂
Thanks for a great wake up call! Valid point!
Our pleasure!
Hey James I like the reference to Rainbow Reef in that video. I went on a few dives with them and this place has very unsafe practices. No wonder why instructor in the mills case was trained there and that you mention the example in that video. I will never go dive with this shop again. I would be curious to know your actual views on this place
Yes i was taught to KNEEL as soon as got into the pool, and keep kneeling the entire hour or so, to the point that leg cramps are common. However it didnt catch on because i dislike kneeling in the first place, and i soon moved go kneeling like my DM did, with one leg up. And soon later out in the sea and the next 30 dives i,'ve had, i never never kneel ever again.
Yes I got my cert in Cairns and we did that a lot. I've done a few discoery dives here and were told to kneel when the instructor wanted to show us something (e.g. stingray hidding under the sand?)
Dang I definitely was in in this habit I’ll have to break out of it... I’d go down to the floor, kneel, tighten up mask and gear check all kneeling kind of instinctively then swim away?? Not on the next dive! Thanks
We did pray a little bit in the pool and used a platform for the open water skills. But I am a shark by profession so I have learned to always hover readying for the strike.
So how's the situation over there? Lots of dive resorts here having to shut down. No more flights or boats allowed in to our island. No divers
I absolutely died at the movie sequences. Jeeeez 🤣
I do get my students to kneel for the very first skills, reg recovery & mask replacement. But even for Discover Scuba (PADIspeak for an intro dive) they are working on neutral buoyancy within 10min. I'm proud to say most of my Discover Scuba participants have better buoyancy skills than the majority of OW divers. 😁 I'll have to get them to try mask replacement in mid water by the end of the DS & DSD session 🙂
As an Englishman James you should know that you only kneel before your King and your lover!
You mentioned Rainbow Reef... I was going to do my advanced there this winter... Do you have a particular dive shop recommendation in Key Largo?
Hey Mark, thanks for the comment. We regularly use Horizon Divers in Key Largo.
Yep buoyancy is given a lot of lip service, but during practice it is often shrugged away. My 1st and 2nd qualifications all the skills were done from kneeling (which with a bit of swell action can be rally hard to stay put). In my 3rd qualification (ie. after racking up a few dozen dives) some skills were midwater. In my IDC, kneeling was again the thing.
People take some time to develop neutral buoyancy (some much more than others). 4 training dives until certification is not enough time IMO. I'm OK with skills being introduced kneeling at the bottom of a pool (or a training platform) for a complete novice trainee. They are useful in preventing panic, so I wouldn't delay them until buoyancy is achieved. But then the skills should be revisited before the first certification and build up to doing them from a neutral position.
I did not passed thru pool. Because my instructor saw that I was comfortable swimming 🏊 (snorkeling) above the surface of the sea. So Me and my instructor directly went to the shallower part of the sea and guess what after briefing of what skills to do we went UW and he gave the infamous sign to KNEEL yes KNEEL and he showed the skill to be done and I followed suit while we were KNEELING. So glad we were kneeling in soft sand in shallow water. So for me in Basic open Water the first skill UW I learned was kneeling 🧎♂️ 🧎♀️ I won’t forget it. It gave my instructor 👨🏫 ease and control of the sequence of skills to be done.
Loved the title of the video! :-)
we were taught kneeling as well. recently.
There wasn’t alot of focus on buoyancy in my class. Whenever I tried to kneel as instructed, I kept pitching forward. I was told to press my hips forward to stay up. I did this but kept pitching forward. I was having anxiety, the instructor said I need to be more comfortable in the water. I still don’t know exactly why I couldn’t kneel but it kept me from paying attention and disrupted the class.
Love the discussion, love the channel! So whilst a culprit of said behavior (similarly due to being taught from OW to OWSI), my question is more on why our standards agencies don’t make the change? Yes there is the cash cow way but some of the agencies out there are very progressive and I would think that they would push positive behavior. Thanks for making me think!
To kneel or not to kneel. I think what more important is how the instructor(s) taught them. If the instructor embed the students with the correct mindset(s) - which is how to improve their dive performance and remind them about those 4 pillars - the students will born as divers with attitude, and not as shitty divers who don't know (or even don't care) how to improve their trim and buoyancy.
Totally aware of the fact I should never kneel. But, I seem to lose control of limbs.
I am working through my open water. The instructor made sure early that I could work on my bouyancy. However... The bladder air pressure controls are very sensitive - it will take some time for me instinctively stop yo-yo depth. I know it is my homework.
Bravo!
Love the content and James. I do not need 60 seconds of movie clips; maybe trim it down to 10-15 seconds for the flavour?
Hi James. Great video. Do you still certify for agencies that teach via the kneeling method and if so how do you get around the fact that they teach from the knees.
No agency (to my knowledge) insists on practicing on your knees, so if Instructors choose not to, they are not breaking standards. It's more a matter of proper training Vs taking shortcuts.
Divers Ready don’t think it’s a matter of them insisting but most of them shoot their skills videos whilst kneeling so in the typical club set up with volunteer instructors, it can be difficult to break through to the better way.
Intro = brilliant
I believe our open water instructor instructed us to kneel...;-p...and then had us genuflect in the proper fin-pivot position!
I agree. But I'm not sure I would have done when I was first taking my open water. It depends on the objectives of the newby diver. Maybe if someone is only wanting to be able to be an underwater tourist for a couple of dives a year all they need is to know they wont die if they lose a mask or a regulator. By kneeling and taking off their mask or doing a reg recovery they have at least experienced what it feels like and are less likely to panic in the event of the real thing. If, on the other hand, they want to be a good all round recreational diver then they may be more prepared to do the necessary work on their buoyancy.
When I took my OW I just wanted to be a safe underwater tourist. It was only afterwards that I got the bug and wanted to be a good diver. I think PADI serves underwater tourists with little time or commitment well. Beyond that, it's about seeking out the right mentors and learning the skills and the science.
James where can I take a course with you? I live in Deerfield beach and dive out of key largo regularly as well!
Hi Stephen! Here's our teaching website: www.miamitechnicaldiving.com Shoot me a message through our contact form.
Thanks! James
First few, told to kneel. Thankfully, my shops post-cert didn't perpetuate that cycle.
I have had to crawl on the ocean floor like you are scaling a mountain but that was kind of life or death due to a current.
SSI trained back in '07 and was trained with kneeling but was also then taught buoyancy in my OW class by my instructor. This P.B. class thing is ridiculous imho.
I refused to kneel. Somehow it’s harder for me to kneel than to Skills while hovering 🤷🏻♂️ good video makes me want to go diving but the corona virus made all our dive Centers close until April 19 -,-
I feel you sir
My dive club has canceled all training and scuba lessons until the middle of April, maybe even longer than that depending on the circumstances :(((((( Thanks to COVID-19. I hope it's only those four weeks and not longer. I already miss going diving. I am so looking forward to finally getting my certification. But that may take a while due to coronavirus lockdowns etc. I definitely get where you are coming from...
Eva Z. I planned to do the final courses for my divemaster and I wanted to start becoming an DLRG rescue diver before the season kicks off 😕 ffs corona virus. And no toilet paper in the shops anymore 😭
@@diveinstructordaniel1095 Are you from Germany? I was wondering due to the use of 'DLRG' (Deutsche Lebensrettungsgesellschaft)... Stay healthy, greetings from Hamburg
Eva Z. Yes I do 😄 Grüße aus Köln 🤙