INSTANT vs. OZONE vs. REAL MASTERING
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- I took a small journey to find out the actual differences between all different ways of mastering.
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INDEX:
1:20 - Pricing
3:34 - eMastered
5:24 - Majordecibel
6:40 - Aria
7:04 - Landr
8:46 - Ozone
9:45 - Real Mastering
20:36 - Comparison
Check the real mastering studio here:
www.emastering.eu
Music by Adam Parx
![The Wall Song ร้องข้ามกำแพง | EP.213 | กรีน อัษฎาพร | 3 ต.ค. 67 [1/5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3KrlLbCsadI/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm a mastering engineer, and this gentleman did you a solid. He was honest, cared and listened to the song, wanted a fuller idea of the intentions of the project, hit the `intro to drop' issue you had admitted to while mixing (bonus points), suggested fixing in the mix (which can risk him not getting paid, if the customer were not to return for any reason). A true professional in my opinion.
I think robots are no where close to rivaling a human in this space, yet. I would recommend using a human to master your songs. Thanks for the awesome video.
Those AI plugins Like Ozone were in my opinion designed to make the Mastering engineer's job quicker. You still have to have the ear and room to do a great job.(i.e If I tried to master using it vs Tony Maserati who do you think would do a better job? It's just so that The Pro Can Get To Dinner On Time And See His Daughters Recital! I Love it as a mixer/not a mastering engineer as of yet. Helps us finish the project quicker....
I was quite stressing about my future in this field. Your comment made me feel much better about AI. Thanks
@@smittytrill613 they were designed for people who aren't mastering engineers and want the process to be made easier. I'm pretty sure actual mastering engineers are mostly passionate about what they do, and would probably save time doing it the normal way than choosing a generic preset and trying to correct it. Plus imagine paying someone to master a song only to find out they used a preset on the entire thing and called it a day. Maybe they do use it as a type of template for saving time, I have no idea, but I really doubt it. Having the feeling of it being somewhat finished before even starting just seems like the wrong way of going about it.
AI can train for a lot of situations but it has no ability to understand something as complex as musical context. A human intuitively understands what is meant and what works. We ourselves cannot properly quantify that so it’s impossible to create training sets for AI. Experience is something abstract.
I work in VFX and software engineering and I often wonder myself why I make certain choices that work. It’s easier to analyse things that didn’t work and hence prevent them from doing them wrong in the future. But things you do right and are not in an exact realm are very difficult to quantify let alone train an AI with that.
Here’s where I stand with AI. AI is great in diagnostics. It can analyse images and wave forms better than any person can. And it can point to problem areas. But as soon as it comes to fixing those, artistry comes into play. Whether it’s a doctor treating a tumor found by an AI image analysis. As an VFX guy blending two shots or as an audio engineer making a track a solid piece.
Artistry will not be taken over by AI as long as we can’t even quantify it ourselves.
Creativity and artistry can’t be taught; also BECAUSE they are subjective.
But we can objective say that the human master sounds incredible.
Black hole? You mean black box :) Generally most stuff that falls into the event horizon it’s separated from space and time. Effectively no longer existing. :)
Nu who cares your point is clear and what a great video!
The mastering engineer you have gone to is a keeper.
loooool
@@WillyJunior haha I found his sentence funny. But the mastering engineer is really a keeper tho.
What is a keeper?
Paga-lhe o Quarto Records a keeper is somebody or something you keep around because of its usefulness.
It’s misjah from x-trax if I am not wrong
The mastering engineer got rid of the resonant frequencies especially in the upper midrange and top..made it smooth and clear...that guy is a badass...
Yes! This video really captured the difference between automated vs. custom human mastering. And that guy was impressive, I found myself wishing I could be there having my own work mastered & reviewed.
is he doing it at 15:05?
„Nobody cares about grammy. we all care about the sound.“ 🤣🤣 so true omg
Well maby the won grammy coz they have better sound? idk
@@MetalFacerRules nah
@@MetalFacerRulesrarely....
That mastering engineer seemed like a really genuine guy.
the Real Coffee VST was the game changer here
Paul David Facts
Such an underrated joke.
Nothing beats analog haha
Amazing demo of a Mastering Engineer.
தமிழன் 😉😉😉
Totally!
This video is great on so many levels. It really helps emphasize the pros (and cons) to all options.
‘Real’ mastering engineers make excellent use of the Ozone app, though certainly not the automatic setting.
I've worked with the mastering engineer in the video. He also uses Ozone. Since he does almost everything analog, he only uses Ozone for analyzing the stereo field.
I understand. It’s a very impressive app. I am particularly impressed with the EQ.
But it's just a tool, just like any other plugins. There is nothing wrong with using Ozone, I don't think that's what he meant to say. We are taling about the "auto" setting of course.
there is no reason to make your job more complicated than it should be.
@@nothingbutdope5316
🔺️🔺️THIS.
Yoooo why did you pour the coffee out man what if he watches the video :(
I liked the innuendo showing that the effort put into coffee (mastering) will make a difference. Felt like a salute to his craft.
It was just a joke.. they plannd it...
Its a joke ... re watch it...
It was just symbolic reference to instant mastering, i think :)
@@@vinogrono You mean "it"s a symbolic reference to his idiotic mind?" perhaps?
The difference between "real" and "automatic" mastering, and what makes the first better than the latter, in this case, is the sharing of knowledge. To the untrained ear, they'll sound basically the same, but the amount of information you get from a decent talk with an engineer is surely an advantage worth paying for.
@Gerhard Schöner quite a solid point. Maybe in the future, we would also have plugins that will try to replace mix engineers. lol that might be interesting to see.
@@Joelevans7 I ended up getting Neutron Elements when it was free last month. Now, I'm not saying it can actually finish a mix because a "finished" mix is so subjective, but it has a few mixbus presets that surprised me dynamics and clarity-wise. It usually gives me too glossy of a high-end for my taste, but you can manually adjust eq, compression, and saturation. I also bypass the compressor and use my own, but it's it's a good jumping-off point after gain-staging. I'm sure we'll get there eventually. I could easily see a plug-in giving you a few options before every move, kind of like a choose your own adventure mix, lol. That would actually be pretty fun to mess around with!
“Lander is Ozone and Ozone is lander” lmao I’m dead
So is Zolander?
@@soyezql - La-z-one? ;D
That makes me laugh too ^^. So... it's better to get Ozone (I already got it) than pay Lander
@@hostnik777 Pref Landzone (Ozonder) sound better :D
Finkell is Einhorn...Einhorn is Finkell!?!
I'm getting a lot of questions about the price of the mastering session... Mastering 1 track at eMastering costs you ± $70,-
I’m also getting a lot of questions and a bit of hate about the coffee scene... it was the only staged/acted part in the whole video. No coffee got hurt during the making of that scene, since it was already cold and old....
@@lewbaldwin The fact that you missed the metaphor of instant coffee makes you look rather foolish.
+ or - $70 no matter how long it takes to finish? Or is it by the hour?
thats that dutch directness ive heard so much about :-)
@@JakeLewisReal Mastering a song can cost between $50 and $1000. Literally. You need to ask the actual engineer/studio for their price. They usually estimate price per song but if you need to go back in for adjustments later that can cost extra. Some engineers will do a round or two of notes for free. It's fairly common for them to spend half an hour on one song but some songs take longer and some are quicker.
@@Wodziwob I'm aware. I was asking in context to the video we are watching. The mastering engineer he was working with, how he charged.
The real mastering session let you know that you should re-mix and how. There is no replacement for that! :)
yes and no because it depends where you are at. what experience you have already.
at a certain point I did the following: I threw my mix into two different automated mastering services. they did just the basic necessities, like correct obvious spectral imbalances, pushed transients, and made the thing louder and more intense. (you can select options also, cloudbounce e.g. has an option about musical style, and then, louder or softer etc.)
after that, I knew what features in the mix might not survive the mastering as much as I hoped. some snare hits might get drowned, some rhythm guitar might disappear behind an exaggerated vocal part, whatever.
so I knew more about all those predictable issues by the automated process, and could correct that. I did not have to rely on my own very limited test mastering chain.
and after the correction, a real good mastering engineer had much less to criticize, 10 issues were gone already, and he could focus on a couple of issues that were more on the artistic side. like to change the balance between kick and snare, for a better groove.
so, for every musician or songwriter, who records their own stuff, we have many more services today, that can help us to get to where we want, and to help get over our weak points.
neovxr - It is always a good idea to have a mentor or teacher, no matter one's level, IMO. I've had many years of learning and teaching and eventually, when you put it all together, I've learned as much from teaching as I did from being taught.
@@neovxr Even professional mixers, like Vance Powell or CLA, will respect a mastering engineer's feedback and remix if needed.
Except for the remote "real mastering", in which case you don't have the option of real time, in person communication.
The big bonus here is that the mastering guy is also a musician and has mixing experience, so that he knows what sounds good as well as how parts were put together.
If they are quality focus and professional they can tell you to re mix some parts to make their job easier and well as result in a better master.
It’s easy to understand how: - you need a great mix to get a great master, you need a great recording to get a great mix, you need great musicians and great performances to get a great recording...and there is a lot of crap told by even more greater idiots who try to sell their own services including a CV with 'stars' nobody has ever heard of...and finally, the majority of people are listening music on crappy MP3 players...
It's a big fancy circlejerk
"the majority of people are listening music on crappy MP3 players" Really? Maybe in 2000 they were lol
@@Koooo4 Over here the majority of people listen to Spotify 320kbps MP3 (or maybe 256kbps VBR), I mean they're great quality MP3's nowadays instead of crappy MP3's. So yea you're partially right. But it's still something to be considered. Most people listen on crappy ear-buds, if you don't take this into account you will go flat on your face as a mastering engineer.
the more reason why you need a good sounding mix... bad mix in crappy mp3 players will sound crappier...
If you don’t like the coffee, please do not dump it right in front of the property of the person that gave it to you in first place... That was pretty rude.
Maybe he did not mind if they know each other
20:44 For ANY engineering: the day you think you have nothing to learn is the day you get left behind.
Quite impressed with that mastering engineer! Making very musical moves on the master, giving useful feedback about the mix, to me that's what the mastering process should really be about. It's not only about making it louder and tweaking the frequency balance.
It's like a tv dinner vs a home cooked meal ..tv dinner will get you by..home cooked meal will satisfy your soul..there is no replacement for hands on cooking..great video!!!
Not with my home cooking, it won't. 😄
@@jennysbloke lol!!
Depends very much who's the cook!
its like a Hooker Vs a Wife..............
The hooker is ..........well./......you get the damn point
Thanks for the time you took detailing the mastering processes, comparing them, and feeding the high-quality audio into my computer-studio speakers. Very enjoyable.
Great work. Hopefully this will help demystify some aspects of what we mastering engineers actually do...which is much more than just making things 'louder'...and also give folks some insight into the benefits of analog mastering in particular.
I let all 3 advertisement videos play completely so you can afford a new place to sleep.
The hero we don't deserve
@Your Favourite Comment how do ads work?
@@jaedii7287 you need to click on them!
@Your Favourite Comment that's exactly how they work
best. fucking.comment. on.here!
That is seriously impressive how much more open and dynamic the real mastering engineers results were. Major Decibel should change its name to majorly exaggerated top end.
Major Top End ksksksksls
Best 30 minutes I’ve spent on TH-cam tbh, incredibly sensitive things in a master that make huge differences. Fantastic video.
I had this video sitting in my watch later for a while because I wasn't sure I was down for a half hour video on this... well, this was actually really informative about just how much better a real mastering service is. Good job.
"Instant coffee, like instant mastering?" Classic.
The offline mastering was quite ahead of the online services. But what no one should forget is, that mastering in a studio is by far more expensive. I remember, when we went to a quite famous studio in cologne, to get our first two records mastered. It costed a fortune. The result was great, but as with anything, you gotta be able to afford it.
If you are an average musician and you have limited resources, it should be noted, that Ozone did quite a nice job, not worse that the online services, imo. And you only have to pay it once.
Otoh, if you just need a master now and then and an engineer is'nt in your price range, these services are maybe an alternative. One of them was crap, if you ask, but decide for yourself.
@Kurosch I would subscribe to the most things you said. But the thing is not, that some people simply cannot afford it. Let's assume you have a 10 or 12 track record, than we are talking about 500-600€. For starters or people who don't make their living out of music or struggle to do so, this is a quite alot of money. Another thing is, that not all cheap mastering engineers doing such a good job. I doubt, that this mastering studio in that video works for 50€ per song.
That in mind, you cannot be sure, that every mastering engineer delivers better results, than Ozone or an online service.
And it's certainly not a question of believing in your own music. The world is full of poor and struggling musicians, who all believe in their own music and a great mastering doesn't help them. Many extremely successful songs sound mediocre, but had a great performance, good song writing, whatever.
Wytse got a quite good beginner video for that: You need a good song, you need to record it well, you need to mix it well and if all that is well made, than a good master is that tiny bit of polish, but you can't polish a turd.
hi peter, ich bin auch aus köln und mich würde interessieren wo ihr wart und was für einen sound ihr macht. eher elektronisch oder handgemacht? beste grüße
@@revolutronic, wir waren im Sound Studio N und die Richtung war grob Wave / Gothic, 50% analog 50% Synths. Schöne Grüße nach Köln :). P.S. Habe gerade mal gegoogelt. Scheint es nicht mehr zu geben :(
@Kurosch, if you're are working for a client and not yourself, of course. I was talking about musicians. If you can afford to pay for recording and mixing you should be able to afford a decent mastering as well.
@@peterbrandt7911 schade, trotzdem danke für die schnelle antwort!
The instant coffee metaphor. Man. Great video, informative for me!
i have been searching the comments for an explanation to what they meant, can you enlighten me? lol. I'm from the states, so Idk if that's some lingo from over the pond I'm not familiar with or if i'm just dumb. haha
At first, the Aria track sounded much better than the others, but then the E-Mastering track was so much more transparent and lively. I was very surprised to hear that much of a difference after noting the improvement from Landr to Major dB to Aria. As suspected, the human mastering engineer blew them all away. This has been my favorite video I've come across (out of dozens) in my journey to learn about mastering.
mastering engineers are like mad brilliant scientists of history. So much respect for what they do.
Since i get my self a pair of Yamaha´s msp7 and one sw10 you have changed my life, i´ve seen like 40 videos this week and i not stoping, hope i meet you around the world some day, my greetings and thanks from Argentina.
It would be very helpful if you could list in the comments the cost for the actual engineer and each service. I don't think any algorithm will ever replace the ears, experience and skill of a real person. Very enlightening!
at Abbey Road Studios between 100 lbs or 130 lbs depending the engineer (for sure hugh quality), other ¨guessed¨ grammy winner in the web ask for $75 but you need to trust on them, IMHO to go to landar or anything auto, Ozone do it as well or even better cause you can tweak to your taste and Ozone is same auto algorythms that you can find in Auto Masterings Webs
@@nandoblondemobydick5438 Do people really use the imperial unit for mass for shorthanding the British Pound?
@@patriotbarrow bruh i was like da fuck?? loooooool
I don’t think they do but i found it really funny
@@patriotbarrow Yes, I've seen it ounce or twice before...😏
Blind test. Only way to make this sort of thing unbiased.
Not very difficult, no.
@Dror Levi Let the consumers and real human ears from different sectors be the judge of that.... Definitely not a well judged test. I made a jazz master myself using Ozone presets and tweaked it a bit , called it sample 1 then as sample 2 3000 eu costed master track called as sample 2. I have sent it to the musicians who played in the track to choose they picked mine over the 3000eu one. BTW I was also one of the musicians who played in the album. So it is knowing what you do with the plugins and presets. Also depends on the genre.... If you have a fresh and analytic brain who can still hear 17k freq. like mine and know how the genre supposed to sound like and have the ability distinguish the differences while comparing it to the reference track which was provided you dont need to spend any money for mastering. And believe any techy guy who are also musicians can do it. I am not very specially equipped or something... Those blindfold tests tell you what is a gimmick what is not. Nowadays it is possible to create a plugin for anything as good as the original thing. As long as nobody can tell the difference why bother paying that much. I am a trained jazz musician and an amateur music producer who does this to prove a point which I have already done couple of times. If you know what you are doing you can achieve the same results with the plugins by tweaking the already existing presets...
@@URAZKIVANER You spent 3000$ euro on one song?
@@zachfell1060 No bro the whole album by a very famous Jazz Mastering guy who I should not tell his name. And it was not me who gave the money it was the owner of the Album one of the musicians who also produced the album...
@Dror Levi after your illiterate comment thx for showing who actually has the lower IQ. I suppose you have no idea what Jazz music is let alone jazz education. We studied basic music engineering and music production while studying Jazz music in our Conservatory probably before you learned how to walk LOL ... I bet you cant even distinguish 2 basic chords from each other let alone Modal chord changes. You need to be pretty stupid and ignorant to call any Jazz musician low iq because it looks like you don't know what it takes to be a jazz musician. I did my own Mastering in my first album, did mastering for a live jazz concert DVD as well. Before calling out someone learn the basics about music first , otherwise you sound like an idiot which probably you are....And the funny thing is it's so obvious that you are a pathetic loser troller I dont even know why I bothered answering you . You dont even have any material in your channel and you keep talking LOL... And my point is proven by Jacob Collier who does everything by himself just using plugins. And he has arguably the best sounding music videos in the world which couple of grammys he took proves ... Try to best that first and then maybe big boys would take your idiotic comments seriously :D And please lets see you guys do something better than this with only one mic and all the mastering equipment you want. He wasn't even 20 by that time and he has been learning to use the plugins ... th-cam.com/video/9s1baxrxGHU/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for supporting real mastering. As a mastering engineer myself using an analogue mastering chain with very expensive analogue mastering gear in it, I can confidently say that it's the quality circuitry that lends the depth of space and detail plus loudness and greater dynamic at the same time. You just can't beat the intensive engineering that has gone into top quality analogue mastering gear and that's why we, and you, pay to use it. The human element and XP as you express of course goes without saying, but the tradesman is nothing without his tools. Long live human intelligence over AI, and long live tubes/valves, class A circuitry and physical awesome devices and their designers. Now we understand why those old records from the 60's and 70's sound sooo good, and big, kinda like a whole other universe of recording technology from what we are becoming attuned to nowadays. No amount of digital emulation has yet replaced the sound of the pure electrical, nor will imo. Thanks once again for performing this valuable exercise in support and appreciation of the real thing. I bet the designers of these algorithms still prefer and perform real mastering over using their own algorithms... ;-)
This comment made me install Ozone 9
I do not agree with your 'analog' circuitry is better opinion. There is no 'better'. There is 'different'. I'm an ancient myself, but please make sure you don't fall into the nostalgic pit...
@@dequaviousgoochburger6621 me too lol
Musicians are very superstitious.
*cant beat it YET. Technology will surpass human error in ten to twenty years. These automatic masters will work off of millions of songs being analyzed and make perfect algorithms for a particular song eventually
What a nice guy making sure his customers are filled with coffee :)
I think AI mastering (LANDR and Bakuage) were insanely good tools in the beginning to make my old bedroom recordings a little more professional. For any home producer on a budget, there's almost nothing better. Of course, sooner or later you will look around for real mastering studios, because a real person doesn't just draw average values, but can specifically go into certain parts of the song (or emotions). An engineer will not just bluntly set up an EQ, multi-band compressor and limiter like LANDR. But in the beginning, the AI was definitely better at mastering than I was. Good Video!😁
My favourite bit was when you kept talking over the guy you were paying for advice lol! Great video concept by the way, really enjoyed it!:0)
A real professional mastering engineer will often care more about the details of your song than even you will. I miss the feeling of driving home from a mastering session and listening to it in the car and feeling so pleased by how good it sounds.
👌
This had to be my favorite video of yours. Ive thought about throwing my mixes into one of those sites to upload for beatstars or youtube but this encourages me to keep learning how to master myself and trust my own ear and keep learning
I think this video perfectly demonstrates the added benefit of having another pair of intelligent ears to address making changes to parts of the song based on the context of the part and how the listener wants the music to make him feel rather than a computer making changes based on algorithms that analyze frequency balance and dynamics with no emotion/feeling to guide the tweaks. Great vid!
Wow. I'm listening through my computer speakers and I could hear the difference that the real mastering engineer brought to the table.
Nicely done! From one engineer/musician to another this was fascinating & educational. Thank you.
A good mastering engineer always needs a good coffee... it's a must!
The track sounds amazing, the video is amazing, the eMastering engineer was amazing, but the most amazing thing hands down is obviously you hair💪🤩🤟
I think its really cool of this guy / his company to allow video to be shot. Really insightful!
You have one of the best informational TH-cams available. It's so enjoyable hearing you talk and teach about music production. You seem a bit more honest & direct (and knowledgeable!) than a lot of others. Thanks, for all you do.
The mastering engineer was really good but he was obviously disturbed by your lack of ability to stay out of his personal space lol
Thought it was rather hilarious...
I was pissed off that you throw the coffee and kept it in, then I realized you made a point about quick and cheap ahhaha referring to the mastering, great one
I will always feel that hardware mastering takes the cake!
-gear the Engineer had in that rack is stuff that most audio heads can't afford...so therefore he can create a finished product most audio heads produce!
"Aria did go a bit louder on it..."
*waveform is solid black bar*
hahaha XD 😆
Was going to do my own research on this for my own curiosity 'till I randomly stumbled upon this TH-cam video. Now I'm happily back in my studio doing my own mastering. Thanks DUDE!
It's interesting hearing this as I'm a pro mastering engineer similar to yours in the video listening in my mastering room. He's great! You should have said his name more in the video. His website doesn't even do so much.
His master is like a mastering engineer wants to make things sound and was my favourite too but interestingly some of that Aria master sound is what I've been having demanded from several of the 'loudest' clients. Really pushing that1-3kHz and parallel compressing it is the last push for laptop loudness at the expense of decent listening. I don't mind the tone of the Ozone master either although I wouldn't have ended up there myself. Listening here the Ozone low enid is quite different from the Landr by the way. I like the Ozone lows far more.
Please next time a little longer time for listening to each comparison would be appreciated.
This was a fantastic video. Thanks for all of the trouble you took for it. More please.
I'm Listening thru a crappy pair of headphones at work and clearly the engineers version was the best and then Ozone/Landr.....welp i guess i'll stop p[aying for Landr since it's Ozone anyway.
Im almost convinced that Landr is Ozone lol
I think Ozone costs a lot more than Landr. :)
I’ve been using Emastered & LANDR going on a couple years now
(Before the masses knew about A.I. mastering)
My personal view is that in a sector where ppl are consuming/creating music at an incredibly fast rate there is nothing wrong with using these types of services to speed up the process.
I personally favor LANDR over Emastered it sounds brighter with keeping the low end intact and gives it a feeling of everything being better glued together
There are so many benefits to finding and working with a great mastering engineer, not the least of which is hearing an end result that you love…
I have my own criteria for what I think is important in finding the right mastering engineer, (in no particular order because these are all important), is the engineer’s knowledge, their familiarity with the genre they’re working with, their critical listening skills, a high-quality processing chain, having great monitors in a very well-tuned acoustic environment that allows transparent translation to other systems…and finally, their ability to listen to the music itself, and ultimately basing their decisions on what best serves the song itself.
There are other important things, too…one of which is the working relationship that can develop between a mixing and mastering engineer over time; as the mastering engineer becomes familiar with a mixer’s style and sound, (and vice versa) they each begin to work within that context, resulting in a great final master.
As shown here in this video, not only can a good M.E. make informed and experienced suggestions for certain mastering processing, but they can also provide useful feedback on certain facets of the un-mastered mix as well.
Finally, and something I’m not sure that enough mix engineers consider to be important when using a real M.E., is how beneficial it can be for the mix engineer to have that second set of fresh, objective and honed ears to listen to their mixes; who is able to hear certain things in the mix that the mix engineer might have missed - which isn’t uncommon as our ears can become fatigued from hearing so many repeated mix passes...
This is all based on my own experience with my go-to mastering engineer, who I’ve been using for decades now.
FWIW.
(IMHO)
🙏
One of my friends recommended I check out your channel for mixing and mastering tips... Was definitely a good recommendation, every video of yours that I've watched has been helpful!
I'm still relatively new to mixing, but I feel like the digital masters always crush the transients too much.
I like that in Ozone, you can run mastering assistant and then pull those parameters back a bit.
Or, I actually like to run mastering assistant, then go step by step in mastering it myself with either another instance of ozone or other plugins, and then reference against Ozone. Sometimes I solve things I didn't like about the Ozone master, or Ozone solves some of my issues.
The biggest issue I have with mastering assistant is that it doesn't automatically adjust the input gain on the plugin. If you change that input gain, it can dramatically change your results. I find that if the input is too quiet, you lose a lot more dynamics and your transients get way more squashed. And if you push it through too hot, you'll have the opposite effect. Sometimes the limiter won't even do anything. So there definitely is a key level you want it to be at when going into Ozone.
Hi, great stuff! But If a mastering engineer would tell me that some part needs another +4dB, I think I'd go back to the mix.
It's all well and good advising bedroom producers to "listen to your mix on several sets of speakers, on your phone, in your car", but the best way to find issues with your mix is to ask a professional to listen to it and give honest feedback. That trained set of ears will find issues that you can't find yourself no matter how may times you listen and that no AI can currently solve.
Hi Wytse, because of this video we had our most recent track (that I mixed myself), mastered by Erwin and it sounds phenomenal! It won't be the last! Online services are great, but the mixing tips, improvements and corrections I've gotten from Erwin, before he started his mastering goodness really made the end result perfect. Thank you for pointing me to eMastering and shining some light on the (for me) very dark hole called: Mastering haha.
opened my eyes to how big of a difference real mastering can do, thanks man!
"Mastering, the last, magic, step towards a finished track."
me: just throws some compression on it and calls it a day
It’s more to it my man more than just comp
I dead ass do somewhat the same xD
You're forgetting the smiley-curve EQ 😀
*soft clipper
I literally master in GarageBand, and let me tell you. They sound so bad, I get so embarrassed. I throw a compression, do some light eq, and the the limiter is where I really struggle. It seems like when I push the limiter, the track clips, but if I push it right before it clips. It's not loud enough compare to the other songs.
Great video!! It puzzles me to see so many people in the comments that seem to be suprised by the fact that the human master turned out to be way better than the automated algorithm based online-mastering services ones.
I’d be suprised as hell if it would be the other way around. What did suprise me was how decent the Ozone version turned out to be.
And since that one gives you a starting point but does allow you to tweak and adjust things I’d say Ozone beats the algorithm-based online services.
But nothing beats real mastering by an actual (human) mastering engineer.
The interesting bit (to me) is that it turns out to be 'way better' here, but in blind tests people have far more difficulty telling what is what. There are a number of online tests you can find, and typically LANDR and Aria are often mistaken for real masters. Also keep in mind that any actual difference is to a great extend lost due to youtube compression.
It's like producers who are djs vs djs who are producers they both have their place that has sadly become forgotten
if you watched this video and then complain about the coffee incident 1) This video/channel is not for you or 2) You did not understand the first 20min 15sec or have a broken funny bone . Great video thank you 👍
Ive been a pro mastering engineer for 7 years and ive been producing since 1997 .... you know what i love about the internet these days ? .. it may have killed some of our professions but you can learn something new every day ... As you know, we are constantly learning and ive actually learnt some things from your videos in one evening ... for that, i thank you ... plus you are god damn entertaining lol
This video taught me the importance of creating a separate mixing track where everything outputs to, and only sending the output of that to the main bus in Cubase (which I use as my mastering bus). I never thought of relying on the compressors on my mastering bus to handle turning up the volume of the entire track! Goes to show how not having worked in a proper studio has crippled my expertise as a music producer. You live, you learn, I guess :)
When he JUMPED out of his skin when the vocal came in was so worth it! I actually laughed out loud. I love White Sea. Tod in Vegas
This was an incredibly helpful and enlightening video. And now, I never want to hear this fucking song ever again. But I can't thank you enough.
That song is junkfood indeed
Your session with the engineer is a great example of why I tell people to NEVER master your own mixes. A 2nd pair of ears is invaluable.
Or a robot
wow landr was definitely ozone but the engineers mix was good on depth love the video
I just started with Logic Pro x like 3 days ago and just wanted lil info about mastering, I know I’m way behind yet your video with comparisons of mastering online vs real mastering was very helpful. Also how you took many notes and you was still learning in this very complex audio engineering world even tho I thought your mix was very good! But anyways Wow! What a big difference not only in price but quality! Thank you very much for this video. I know now that I will be looking for a real one when I’m ready! God Bless!
A couple of the instant masters were in the cup you tossed...very clever analogy...that was not an accident im sure...I love your gentlemanly sense of humor !!!!!
If I had the budget then I would use a mastering engineer every time but as I just do this for a bit of fun and not professionally I am grateful that Ozone gives me the chance to get something that is good enough for my you tube channel. That's OK as no one listens to it
😂
this was interesting to see, just wish you didnt finish the guys sentences for him and let him talk more.
yep ‚ that was annoying
It was the coffee speaking lol he couldn’t help it
Wow that real master is by far the best. I love how natural and 3 dimensional that mix is. every instrument is breathing and nothing is overcooked.
Aria sounds like everything is trying so hard to be up front and ends up sounding flat as a whole. overly saturated high-mids is pretty irritating too.
I laughed when Landr lost its energy at the drop (after the build up), when it's supposed to have the highest energy in the song. lol
Ozone definitely lacks width/openness but to my ears it has the best kick. Seems like the mid signal on that mix is louder than the "real master" though
Not only is it so informational you're so entertaining
Thanks for your great video.
I tracked and mixed our bands debut album and then tried using numerous plugins to master. Talk about kidding ourselves!
At the end of the day we have decided to give the tracks to a proper mastering engineer.
Your comparisons gave me great comfort and assurance that amongst all the best software out there, nothing truly can replicate or replace another pair of ears of a dedicated mastering engineer at the helm of their own mastering suite with proper outboard gear.
Thanks again.
Algorithms doesn't give advice
glad that newest ozone gives you advice. but yeah, nothing can be compared to skillful ears of them
*coffee
however, they make some issues more audible with a cheap process, before going to the quality guy who deserves his higher fee. so the input also should be as good as possible with another point of view by the automated attempt. I think a pro mixing engineer would need the automated mastering much less or in very different ways than the project- and homestudio people.
Lol so Landr just uses Ozone Mastering Assistant on default settings...of course Ozone is going to sound better if you tweak settings after that point, still best to send it to a mastering tech who knows what they're doing (as long as your mix isn't muddy garbage)
I noticed that everybody has ignored the comment made by Kushest. I would like to add that any preset from any algorithm should be your starting point to make your master. But
obviously people won`t even see this comment because they are too busy with their own agendas.
GREAT GREAT GREAT!!! Thank you! Also found that mastering, re-mixing, and mastering again has improved the process. THANK YOU!
Awesome, awesome, awesome video. I played this back on my studio monitors to really hear the differences. I appreciate you for taking the time to thoroughly compare Ozone, with web based, and a human (who really knows his stuff btw) mastering. Good job my friend.
Excellent video. I didn't like any of the online master solutions either. Seems like they just compress the crap out of your track and boost the high end so it sounds crisper.
That mastering guy really pampers you with coffee 😂
The volume riding seemed to really do the magic for the mastering from the engineer. The others will definitely never do that.
EDIT: Just had another listen. Yeah the mastering engineer one sounds the best
It's true that the human isolated the most important issue with the track (the "collapse" in the drop) and fixed it, which none of the AIs could do, because they weren't programmed to do so. The algorithms didn't know what a drop is. But they will. They just need to be coded. It won't be long before Ozone or similar works like a nuclear powered Clippy, and will effectively say "It looks like you're trying to produce a banger, but your drop is weak. Would you like me to fix your mix? Click OK to continue."
Erwin @emastering is a great professional and a great guy. He always communicates his honest opinion and reports back if things are better fixed in the mix.
This is a great video. Well done. Fascinating that landr was identical to the ozone preset!
It would be awesome if you could make available to us the volume-normalized lossless files for each mastering so that we can compare it at home. Preferably with their names obfuscated (master A, B, C...) so that we can do a blind test ;) I hope the client agrees to this idea! Perhaps only send a small part of each music so that people don't get a whole song for free. That would be amazing!
LANDR and Ozone were pretty impressive for not being true mastering. Although they were pretty much identical i think i liked LANDR more. That being said the real deal definitely had more energy. there's still a smoothness that I preferred with the LANDR but ultimately you want to bring energy out of a mix.
OZONE IS LANDR - LANDR IS OZONE ? !? BRILLIANT!
Would that be hilarious if it turns out it actually is?
@@ViktorNova Not hilarious, it'd mean Landr is pretending to be something they aren't, just getting your track, putting it through Ozone and selling it back to you. What's the chance that two independent, unrelated mastering methods sound almost the same?
th-cam.com/video/6UQ7HoOJwfQ/w-d-xo.html
Lawsuit time. I'm jumping on it.
@Your Favourite Comment If it was so high, surely you could show an example of two independent mastering systems producing the exact same results?
The master engineer seems like a very humble, professional person
Who is great maybe all masters .
But not great than this person who compared all those masters.
Hats off man.
1 Real Mastering
2 Ozone
3 Landr
4 Aria
5 Major Db
Note that real mastering did use ozone
@@nikonik 15:53 On the back wall. It's Ozone Imager tho.
Also an important thing to note is that he won't use the automated "Master Assistant" of course.
@Joannes Ferrari haha ANALOG>>>>digital always
@@SibaNL yeah i did NOT SAY that i just said that ozone is a proffesional programm for mastering and if you use it well you can create magic
@@randomchannel1712 I know
eMastered owns all of them except maybe a great engineer.
Just paid a mastering engineer and my single track sounds better than these other automated mastered tracks I have done before.
billian mpofu how much did it cost you?
atmoment_official It was a $ 417 I think, for both mixing and mastering
@@billianmpofu9598 For one song?! Yeah I'll have to budge out and get ozone. I'd be satisfied with that. No way I could finance the mastering of an entire project. Dayum. Appreciate your reply.
@_atomofficial I mix and master and I can give you a deal since your an indie artist, shoot me a message. I just finished mixing and mastering my own track, check it here: soundslanguage.bandcamp.com/releases
I'd love to see a blind comparison. Figure out which one sounds best, without knowing which one's which beforehand.
What a fantastic comparison video! Thank you for doing this. The results are what is to be expected. You really get what you pay for sometimes. That is one great mastering engineer though, beyond just his engineering skills.
Great video!
Definitely among the best and universally relevant "Head to Head" videos I have seen on YT . Good one.. Thank You!
You know what i did when u get the coffee?
I paused the video and make myself a cup of coffee. Because its way too interesting.
Thumbs up!!
big same. went and made a cappuccino as well
yeah, it's obvious that the mastering done by a real person is actually way better. I think the volume automation/EQ automations make the difference here. It just adds a really dynamic layer to the whole process and an algorithm just can't deliver that. This is why I don't like automated solutions like Ozone, even if the endresult is decent. The human component, the extra work/touch, gives a good master the last edge over anything an algorithm could do.
Quite often, that edge is no joke either.
nope yeah but how do you know the engineer is going to do that stuff? I think $50 and under mastering per track is not much different from ozone assistant. Gotta spend $200 per track if you want someone to spend hours on mastering you know?
I've had version of Ozone for years. Sadly, I've found their recent added 'Assistant' features to be complicated, cumbersome and pointless for a mastering engineer. If a novice wants to spend the money on the N2 O8 suite then spend the time learning how to use it, yes, they can clear up some masking and probably get a better sound. But when it comes to mastering choices, there are too many variable for an algorithm to make all the right choices.
Aside from all that, Ozone simply doesn't sound as good as it needs to rise to a serious mastering tool, especially a so called 'all-in-one' tool'. The dynamics timings seem odd to me, the EQ is not the prettiest, the limiter doesn't compare to other offerings, including some cheaper ones. Aside from the occasional multi-band mid-side dynamics and/or dynamic eq use for specific issues, the only things I still (very rarely) use from Ozone are the multi-band imager and the multi-band exciter, usually in mid-side mode. And the dither. (I still find the Waves S1 to be a better stereo expander than Ozone, unless one is real careful).
For EQ, the DMG Equilibrium is, IMHO far superior; occasionally the bx_digital V3, Dangerous Audio Bax EQ or, if a little color is warranted, the UAD Manley Massive Passive (and a few others that have special qualities). If multi-band dynamics work is required, I use either the UAD Precision Multiband, the Sonnox Suppressor HR if the target is specific, the wonderful DMG Essence (which can do all kinds of great mastering tasks, especially De-Essing and Parallel 'upward' compression - the #1 tool for getting tracks loud without squashing or distorting them - it's the Weiss DS MK-III before Softube came out with an actual port of that unit) and occasionally the Voxengo Soniformer; the Dynamic Spectrum Mapper from Paul Frindle gets some use (but it's finicky for anything below 2 kHz); the bx-refinement can occasionally save the day as well.
More general compression tasks are well covered by Elysia Alpha Compressor, PSP Mastercomp, Voxengo Polysquasher, UAD SSL G Buss Compressor (the new one) and a few others, depending on the tempo, aggression and inherent distortion & hash of the recording.
Other nice plugins include UAD K-Stereo (not quite as sweet as the old Algorithmix, but they never ported it to a 64 bit OS - just like their wonderful LP Red EQ); a few scattered harmonic generators, etc (UAD ATR 102, Softube Tape, Soundtoys Decapitator, Elysia Karacter, UAD Culture Vulture w a low paralel mix, Vertigo VSM3, MH Character & Wavesfactory Spectre.. Even the bx_masterdesk is probably a safer bet for polishing up a recording without getting into too much trouble.
Limiters: The Sonnox Limiter V2 (V3 now), PSP Xenon, Voxengo Elephant & UAD Precision Limiter all beat out the Ozone one. i'm guessing Softube's Weiss Limiter is aces as well.
One are where I definitely give iZotope props is w their RX restoration; that's where suggestions can help if you're in a hurry, and the modules sound real good. I also like Alloy 2 (in a mix context) - great for multi-band ducking.. making room in a frequency area for a new instrument without damaging the 1st one too much.
I'm sure others here who do (or are learning) mastering have their personal favorites. What's yours?
@@GeorgePiazza what do you think about vlad limiter 6, what would be its weaknesses? I use it after the melda saturator (where distinct overtone areas and curve shapes can be dialed in).
I'm doing just a little project studio work and we give mixes to a pro ME, but still it is interesting to test things before going to the paid expertise with too many issues.
@Nano Surge Because A'I and art/passion/expression, right? lol
His "What?!" at 4:18 is priceless! XD
you get 1 free demo.
Really appreciate this video. Something I absolutely needed to see.