When my players seem to have faltered and can't figure out what to do next, I pick whichever one has the highest skill check for the particular situation and have them roll. If they get a high enough roll, I narrate clues to them as if their character thought of it themselves. For example, if they're looking for the entrance to a cultist's lair, I'll have the thief roll Investigation and if they get a high enough roll I'll say something like "Based on your background with secret doors and traps and such, you start to think, 'If I were trying to hide this door, where would I hide it' and you begin to get a sense that you need to look in ". Things like that seem to go over well with my players.
That's super super clever! My GM does something very similar and I can confirm, as a player it feels very seemless ingame. It's also weirdly comforting because it's giving the DM a chance to flex their knowledge of how your character thinks, feels, how their backstory influences their actions, etc.
I've been watching live play videos and reading posted session reports on the Internet, and wondering why GMs don't do this. I wrote it up the other day as "The Heroes Are Much Better At This Than the Players Would Be." Your implementation, however, is way more refined than what I've come up with on my own. Excellent, and thank you!
I'm guilty of using "Character PC discussion moments" to take a brief mental breaks. So long as they're having fun. After that I can hit the ground running the last half.
@@philliphancock336 Ok! My players are really energetic and their Characters get along very well and play off each other very well. They get pulled in this never ending back and forth of role-playing, where they're so busy entertaining each other it feels like a shame to interrupt. Haha. They're very good players and I don't feel like I'm a good enough GM sometimes. While they're off in lala land, I can work on they ideas they've inspired me with, and come up with better encounters, get sip of water, stretch, whatever I need to do to refresh.
And color coding notes for quick searches on the cheat sheet can be helpful too! Try various methods of organization if it doesn't seem to be working as well as you thought it would.
I once played a Goliath cleric (storm) who had an INT of 6... he had his spells engraved on small stone tablets he carried around as a focus XD was a bit gimmicky but a fun character to play for the 5 or 6 sessions that game lasted
In one of out last sessions, my group and I had a lot of fun just playing our characters having a theological debate. It was a great bonding experience for the PCs, a neat way to introduce some lore to a new player and it accidently triggered some mayor character development when that player's PC started to question his believes. All the good stuff. On the downside, we completely destroyed the pacing and any plans our GM had for this session. Two hours had passed before we got to a conclusion. Didn't we mind? No, because we had fun. Could we have done it faster? Maybe, but it would have felt forced and we would have robbed outselves of some great character play and character development. What point am I trying to make? It's okay to let the train go off the rail and to enjoy the wild ride while it lasts. Though you better have the tools ready to get everything back on track as soon as things start to slow down. Not earlier. Or lay down new tracks in front of the train and see where this new journey goes.
4:40 Memory... I have an absolutely essential tip for this that I have all my players do, and I do this myself as both players and GM. WRITE PAGE NUMBER BESIDE ABILITY/SPELL/WHATEVER! This means you can at an instant reference it if you or another player needs a refresh. Do this for everything. Your skills, weapons, and SPELLS!!! this is one that I have issues with due to a serious car accident years ago. I mix stuff up most notably, confusing for example stuff in Starfinder with pathfinder. But is okay. Because all things on my sheets have page numbers. I make a cheat sheet for basic combat abilities I intend to use, such as trip, or charge. You dont need to memorize all the rules. Personally speaking, it can be difficult for people. I went from almost photographic memory to often forgetting names. So if cannot remember? Reference. After all, that is why we have books.
I make all my players write down their abilities on a sheet of paper in an easy to read format + page number for when you have to look up the original description. this way they dont have to look them up most of the time and they have a better overview of what they can do
I am relatively new to 5E and my friend is new to D&D in general and only two sessions of TTRPGs. However, I have tons of experience in other TTRPGs, so I developed an alternate solution: Practice fights. Our schedules are more open than our group as a whole. We have mock battles between my characters (I have several) and his character. This has not only helped him memorize his stats, how they work, and what spells to use, but also the best ones and when to use them. When we started, he took minutes to to take an action, now he is one of the fastest players, and we have a few who have memorized the PHB and Monster Manual. It is hard to set up time slots, but it is more fun than rote memorization, and can work for several characters over time. That said, key stats for your PC on a note card have been a must for me for 20 years.
I grabbed a 5e spellbook app for my phone, and also found class-specific "spellbook" PDFs on DM Guild that I printed for my caster players so they don't have to thumb through the whole PHB spell list. Having everything right there helps a lot.
This! I've also made myself a player cheat sheet so I can keep an eye on their proficiencies and passives and do on, have a DM corkboard which acts as my DM screen with reminders of what different ability checks are for, conditions, actions in combat, stuff like that, also sticky tabs for my books so I can quickly flip to the loot page or whatever else is often referenced. The bad memory is still likely to come up, but having those things at hand are super helpful.
I'm gonna sit here and quietly chuckle, all the while knowing I'm exactly the dumbass who'd share my screen on discord....you know, the screen with ALL my session and planning notes. What's planned next, the BBEG's abilities etc.../facepalm
@@subduedpotato7216 I took a picture of roll20 and zoom and posted it on Instagram to show my friends I was playing d&d and I tagged my players in it.....forgetting that they have fog of war and I don’t and I just showed them the full dungeon map 😑
I always just have a magic train appear out of nowhere from an astral portal before a couple overpowered mercenaries on board the train kidnap the PCs, throw them on the train, and set the train along the railroad towards the plot.
I run horror one-shots and pacing is so critical. Love the marker information. I combine markers with timings (clock time) to give me an idea what time players should hit each marker. Sometimes that means cutting planned scenes short, or completely. Everyone wants (deserves) a satisfying conclusion at the end of the night, and without markers you run the risk of rushing the Big Finale, or worse, not getting to the ending at all!
I DM a lot for my brothers and I've wanted to put them in a horror scenario for a session or two in the campain. I am relatively experienced but still have trouble finding ways to put them on the edge of their seats. Do you have any pointers? :) Their characters are in the lower levels, ca lvl3 to lvl5.
Here's another tip: If you put too many fast scenes (encounters, fights, action-packed high-octane adventure stuff), you'll exhaust your players. If you put too many slow scenes (planning, talking, etc) you'll bore your players. So vary your scenes. If things have been slow for a while, have them suddenly come across something exciting. "You are wandering through the woods when you find a knight blocking the path ahead. He refuses to let you pass unless you answer his riddle." Similarly, if things are too fast for a while, slow things down. "After you have killed all the Zombies you notice a Ghoul leaning up against a boulder nearby. 'You gonna eat that?' He asks. What do you do?"
I tend be the GM that just lets players set the pacing and durdle around a lot. But my players do enjoy that kind of untra-immersive RP, where they end up in longsass planing sessions and talk with NPCs for ages ... so it's actually working out well! :D
GM and players have to agree on what it is. I have seen hack'n'slash and RP heavy work really well, even with the same players. It depends on expectations. Right now, we are in what is supposed to be a hack'n'slash, but two players wasted hours wooing an elf so that they could get one level 1 spell from her book.
Yes, I think it's about knowing your table. The game I'm running, time is progressing ultra-slowly but the people are enjoying the rp. If things seem to be hitting a lull, I'll nudge things on but if they're having a bonding session between two PCs and immersed, then yes, carry on. The only catch is that sometimes, if two people are doing that, others may get bored but it's accepted in our group that everyone will get their turn to spend that time so people don't mind that much.
One of the biggest problems I have been having is with newer players is they do not roleplay enough in between to make a game seem longer and more interesting. I feel they just need time to get more comfortable about it.
Speaking as someone who basically did a "used LotR as a lore book" as a kid (I was a weird kid) but never had played Dungeons and dragons before, until I started both playing and DMing, "Roleplaying" was always that cringe worthy word you heard talked about in business classes or your particularly determined parent wanted you to do before a job/Uni interview. I love/loved story telling, getting into character, heck, I'm now becoming a writer by trade as my education and chosen career, but I hated the idea of being judged about my performance. I already had "overcome" my introvertedness that makes people think I'm just… not one… and having a character I'm invested in and care a lot about be mocked by a group, let alone a group of *friends* would be devastating. I don't really know how what I'm about to say will help your players or newer players, but (barring in mind that you're not playing a murderhobo) if you can break out the character traits/behaviors just randomly, in a store where it doesn't matter, where people don't know you, and pretend to be someone else for a while… that helps a lot. I mean, heck one time a close friend of mine spent the entire time walking around a relatively small mall a good 50+ miles from our respective home towns putting on, and keeping, accents for the entire day. I do have some advice for your players that they can translate: copy never steal. If you really like the way the Tenth Doctor behaves, perhaps there are some of his quirks in your character. Maybe they come from an MMORPG background and want to play an Orc that is very much WoW not D&D-let them have those mannerisms. (Heck, I get teased just enough by friends that I'm already like Captain' Jack Harkness in my mannerisms/speech patterns ((and proclivities for blue jokes)) that I should just make a character around playing him (since his personality is basically every bard ever? ;P) But yeah, base a character or set of traits off of a character they love and see themselves in and it will help draw them out. I'm doing that with my newest recruit (I'm DMing) where I'm fighting both shyness and ADD. It took a lot of digging through our shared fandom before I was like "so he's like X crossed with Y?" "Yeah!" "Cool! Just take what you like from their personalities and he'll develop his own in time as you tweak him and play him out."
I am currently running my first campaign. I have been watching your videos religiously for about a month now. You have helped me out so much. My players really enjoy it. Thank you very much.
Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to really get a solid game plan or outline setup? A part of me wants to try and dm but I'm worried about being either too obsessive about pre planning or being too lax (bc you never know how hard PC choices can change general plan) and have to improv through the majority of the campaign, constantly stressing to adapt and stay just ahead of them.
@@h.s.6269 I just make a basic flow of what I want to happen then I try and fit it into what the PCs are doing. It's been about a month and I've got a general idea about what I want to happen. But yeah definitely don't plan too much because even with my low level of planning, they still manage to screw things up.
You mentioned looking at some of your old videos and releasing this updated look. I know you’ve done it a small number of times, but wanted you to know, you definitely have my vote and support whenever you do. I love your revisits because you always add or update thoughts and theory. Thanks Guy!
I think this video tries to deal with the issue of "the pacing of the game is too slow". But there's another problem that can occur, that is when the pacing is too fast. Sometimes this happens when the GM is too worried about the game becoming too slow (maybe they've just watched this video), or possibly because the GM is feeling disengaged with whatever the players are (happily) doing. Finding the right pace is extremely tricky, and just like with movies and TV-shows, some prefer one style over the other.
Me: so plot happens Party: no thanks we want to help the cultists set up flaming man Me as cultist: they thank you but tell you there is no such thing as flaming man. Just Burning Guy. Party: sure we will help with burning guy. Me as cultist: great Flaming dude will happen tonight. Party: I thought it was called Burning guy Me as cultist: yes One pc who gets it: what's so hard to understand really really really hot man is going to happen tonight
as someone who almost never plays magic-using classes and knows like 0 spells and always has to look up what they do when i am playing one (whether on the sheet or notes), a pacing tip for people like me: read what your spells can do and come up with a plan during someone else's turn. you'll be ready to go by the time you need to act
I feel like the boxes on the side would be awesome downloads for easy reference offline. Ever thought about that? And now I know why I got a Great GM's streaming notification on a date I totally wasn't expecting it. Too bad I didn't tune in then :D As always, thanks for your advice, Guy!
"Read the bloody book!" Yes! YES!!! This! It's so simple, yet so difficult. What kills me about this is that I have played with players who have reading disabilities and players who are autistic.... and they find ways to overcome any difficulties in regards to learning their characters. It's why I get unholy angry at the people who have no such hurdles, but simply refuse to put forth any effort. I call them "baby bird players", because they expect the DM to chew up the rules and feed it to them! Just. Read. The. Book.
As someone who is; on the spectrum, dyslexic, adhd, and just a general scatterbrained idiot, i can say, I know the damn rules. I know them, fairly well, if I am playing a caster, I know my spells, i put them on cards or whatever, or I use an online tool, whatever it takes. I had a player once while I was dming, they were new, and, every. Single. ROUND. would ask, "so.... what can I do again?" To my knowledge, no blocks standing in their way, they would just... not know. took no time to learn. it drove me, up a wall. Now, when I say every round, I mean, we played for 3 months, this player was a sibling to another of my players, and they still, 3 months later, would ask every round what they can do. Sibling A literally told me that if I ask sibling B to leave, A would leave to so I put up with it for 3 months...
I had a GM once who would ask a player what they wanted to do then count down from 5 if they hesitated. Only in pressure situations where the PC had little time to think or come up with a plan but man was it effective. It was also stressful. We all hated it but understood the reason for it and appreciated that it kept things moving.
I always appreciate these times when you take so much effort to deliver parts of your vast knowledge. I learn so much, every time I watch your content. Thank you! :)
I'm with you brother, it's so funny to see them struggling when they hear "10 ... 9 ... 8 ........", because many times they already know what to do but are stuck on minute details
A word of caution for one way dungeon masters might think to fix pacing. The first time I even played D&D, the DM was using a pre existing module. Whenever we got stuck or missed some sort of important checkpoint or were floundering around aimlessly, the DM would shoehorn, or I guess railroad us, into the way forward, or they would simply activate certain requirements themselves so that the scenario could progress to the end (this was a brand new player DMing and we were all new so at least cut him a break on that). Unfortunately the story doesn't have a happy ending and there wasn't a whole lot more D&D because the group was filled with people who would rather not be told what to do or waste their time and saw the potential for having to make up their own minds when the DM has what we're all supposed to do right there after all as a sign of personal weakness and then the jabs and snark started about how useless others were and that was it, really. We were a bunch of high school mates now well out of school and sadly D&D was showing each of us what we were really like, especially when one just liked managing people and eventually managed me out of the circle entirely.
Well done! I would add in that keeping a good pace is how you talk. Talking at an above normal pace and keeping the intensity by using descriptive adjectives and strong eye contact will push the players to react faster. Also it is how you look, appropriate body language to the players is needed, if you slouch they slouch. Shoulders back, Sit up straight with intent in your eyes and being interested in what they are doing has a history of pushing things forward. Lastly, if all else fails, I use a timer. Timers have helped me push actions forward to speed up the game when PCs get stuck on problems.
YES, thank you. the last game I played devolved into a war against gods in like 15 sesions. it was like "what level are we at? 9? cool, and who are we fighting? the raven queen? ok"
I must confess, I'm guilty of not moving things forward like I should. Sometimes, it's good to have some slow moments. It gives the players time to reflect on their characters' actions. Especially if they've done something particularly emotional, I'll give everyone a little time to reflect. My group are usually in for the details of the story, and I'll spend our time where they seem to want detail. Unfortunately, this habit does kill pacing, and I'm not particularly good at getting forward momentum going again. Thanks for the presentation, Guy. It gives me a few things to think about.
I have really come to enjoy your tips video's, I am fairly new to D&D, but I have always love the idea of the game, I only just started playing and hanging out with a group for their main campaign. It has really helped me get a grasp on things first hand, I find it helpful to sit in on a live session because I can message the Dm with questions which he can answer when he has time. Because of the way I think my DM has already mentioned that I would likely do well as a Dm myself even though I have only played a few sessions myself and sat in on a handful of others. Watching your video's is helping boost that confidence, I don't feel I'm quite ready just yet, but I look forward to trying soon. Thank you so much for your content, and keep up the awesome work!! (Also I loved the blooper! I talk to myself too. n.n)
I like the use of flashcards for skills or spells. As a GM I use them for NPC stats. One thing I find GMs often bog their games down with is the overuse of the Observation or Awareness roll every time the players ask for specific details.
I learned that lesson with Call of Cthulu games. Games are often mystery based, so every detail could be a clue. NEVER give details unless they matter. Problem is that I am now a player, and several of the others in the party NEED to know every detail and demand to make rolls. Piece of advise to players, if the GM doesn't ask for a roll, or does not make a comment, then it isn't important. If you ask for a check and the GM gives a bland answer, don't ask for more...IT DOESN'T MATTER!
A house rule I use that I feel helps with the pace alittle is "What you say is what your characters say." The exception is you say the persons name who you are talking to. This has I felt kept the pace from going to slow and hilarious when they forget and start talking about a plan of killing a local official right in front of him if he doesn't help thrm.
There is a trick I picked up from my LARP friends. (I’ve never played a LARP). When you speak out of character you hold one hand across your chest or hold you hand up, fingers crossed. Otherwise, you say it, your character says it.
Need to show this to a friend of mine who lets everything get bogged down in mechanics and hours on end of combat, much to the chagrin of the entire rest of the group... because that was awful. One encounter in particular (this was a Star Wars game by the way) had us in space for six actual real-life hours just killing three defense platforms or whatever they were. Then we found out there were two or three dozen more of them we had to grind through and uh... yeah, he just skipped the rest of that because _SIX HOURS TO KILL THREE THINGS_ and most of us had completely clocked out at hour one. We'd gone into this game expecting a lot of investigation, subterfuge, fast-talking, et cetera. The whole campaign ended up getting derailed by way too much combat. As for the writing your abilities down - yes, I would definitely agree with that. I personally have everything written down for quick access at any point. It saves so much time to always have everything you can do on hand and ready.
Its funny... I feel like ive heard of the 3-5 markers before, but the way he explained it made it finally click in my head as to how i can better organize my campaigns... thats really cool
It has been said that system matters and some systems give the Gamemaster more tools and flexibility in controlling pace than others. If the GM is "director" and players "actors", it is the director who sets the pace.
Small tip i use on my more elite group's pacing especially in combat. Reduce the number of steps in one turn. permission to move here Granted (Move) Permission to attack like this (Granted) Attack Ask roll (Tell) Roll Describe I move here attack this and this is what i rolled. What happened? (Roll the dice and tell the result) Describe the act Basically I let the players take their turn and tell me what happened. If there is something off i check if it was right. This only works if you can very reasonably presume that your players won't cheat, know the rules very well, and will use their newly earned power to enhance the game and not abuse it. It is kind of a tall order, but if your group can do it, the pacing of the combat becomes much quicker especially in orpgs.
You know, i was translating some stuff for my game and trying to hear this on the background, but it looks like your advice is really important, so i might as well listen carefully to what you have to say~
As a player and DM that spent the entirety of their teenage years doing chatroom roleplays in real time, i can confirm that the story structure shuffling is a usable thing and done commonly when one RPer is hosting/guiding the story (DM role). My dnd group is almost entirely internet RPers who have developed an internal "Pacing Clock" for lack of a better term, so both players and DMs will start trying to move things along after a while. Sometimes it takes a few people having their Pacing Clocks ping before stuff gets going, but we're usually within a few minutes of each other. We are forgetful though and the "oops i lost this stat" issue or "what's this spell do again?" pops up more often so i appreciate the tips on moving things along, even though it always sets off everyone's Pacing Clocks when rules stall the flow so we all get antsy until it starts moving again.
This is great advice. Improvisation in slow or difficult moments should flow from the main plot structure, or the enemies' plans. This makes dramatic, minimal-preparation home-games very fun and exciting for the GM to run and for players to play. That said, the details seem pretty focused on D&D 5e, you may want to note that or note how other systems are different.
For players knowing what they are going to do on their turn, ive found calling who is up next to be immensely helpful. Sometimes its hard not to check out while a bunch of enemies and your whole party takes their turns, but if youre alerted that you have 1 turn before you're up, you can spend that turn resurveying the field and pulling up your ability.
With my groups, I have a series of scenes that I want them to play out (hopefully within a single session) but these scenes all have natural beginning and end points. Obviously player agency can get things way of the rails sometimes, but this provides me with good ways to control the pacing and shrink / lengthen the session as needed. It requires some extra planning on my part, but I've found it to work really well with every group I've tested it in. Unless there's an emergency, we never have to stop in the middle of an encounter which has resulted in many of my players telling me that they prefer to be in sessions that I'm running. It also allows me to keep session to between 2-3 hours a pop. Which i find to be the right level of time that most people will stay invested and wear out. Occasionally we've ran longer or shorter as needed, but that timeframe is my sweet spot.
... somehow my group of 3 adventurers grew into 7, and as a neew DM I am struggling to manage any kind of plot that goes beyond the 1 room/environment per session constraints. I do not want to split the group, so now we're just slowly getting used to a slower pace, and having to interact with so many pcs. We now had about 6 games in this configuration and we're slowly getting better at coordinating this^^
12:24 Easy solution for a curious or bloodthirsty party is to put some campfire smoke rising from the other side that someone with good passive perception notices unprompted. It can be whatever you want, on the spot, to get them moving forward. Or ask people to roll a wisdom save, or what their passive perception is when they're stalled, that can add a sense of urgency even when there isn't any.
i'm not sure if you have done a video on this before but a humble request/suggestion and if you have done a video on this please feel free to point me to it. How about a video about wrapping a session? how/when to end a session. I personally start my session at 11am and aim to end around 3PM or 5pm to 9pm if it's an evening session. (total of 4 hours is my personal limit before i start to burn out). starting around 30 mins before the end i start trying to steer the narrative to a minor or even major cliffhanger or story beat to end the session on. Doesn't have to be good or bad, just some kind of beat to have a "gotcha" moment. I had a player comment that every session i end with a cliffhanger and it's getting old... he recommend i just run the session naturally and at the end just end the session. I personally don't get that mentality. Curious your take on that.
Hello random person! I didn't find a video of his on this topic but I thought sense I do the exact opposite in my games I would try to lend some help. Now Idk if this helps but my group play much later like 7 to midnight-1am so were all kinda tired by that point (I know that's probably not going to work but I thought I'd explain my weak suggestions) Think about it as if your the player character like the "real person" and some mythical voice at the end of every game said "ha ha gotcha". Its kinda Immersion breaking for that player maybe? (taking it very literally cause its the internet). something I do when I plan for a session is to just write enough that fills the time...now that approach can be had cause like in this video you really gotta have your pacing down and alot of the time, cause I have some chaotic PC's, we miss that mark so around about 5 mins or so to the end I kinda relax, come out of dm mode, and just ask what they think is going to happen next or something along those lines or just something everyday? (idk how close of friends you guys are)...mostly my pc's react with suspicion and/or curiosity of "OmG wHaT's ThE dM pLaNiNg?!?!? WeRe AlL gOiNg To DiE!! even if we like just entered a town or something completely non threatening. I hope this might help getting you to understand how they are feeling :D
Again, varies group-to-group, but my groups (whether I was GM or not) set a start and end to the session. That way, the cliffhanger is generally expected. A group I am in now runs from 7pm to 10:30pm on a weeknight. As such, that 10:30 is a hard stop. The GM (I am a player) had a whole lot set up, but a few players have to haggle over everything. Anyway, we had a set of three encounters set up, but took too long to get started on them. We were finishing up the first at about 9:50, so the DM threw in a few more low level monsters to burn the last 45 minutes since the next encounter would take way longer than 45 minutes at the rate we were going. When done killing the last one (at 10:15), he told us that was a wrap and that we would pick up from there next time. TL;DR: Set an established time for the end of sessions so that your players can see it coming. Then, the cliffhanger feels less like a jerk move and more like the old tv show "See you next week for our characters' next adventure!"
@@samuelzuleger5134 TL;DR: Set an established time for the end of sessions so that your players can see it coming. Then, the cliffhanger feels less like a jerk move and more like the old tv show "See you next week for our characters' next adventure!" -- that's what i do. IE try to end on a small reveal or right as they open the door to a bunch of treasure or w/e.
My group deals with swung-shift work schedules and angry toddlers that demand sessions get ended soon, so I just look for a good break point when we start running out of time or the kobold, I mean baby, gets angry & tired. Sometimes it's a cliffhanger, sometimes it's after finishing the encounter we're on, and sometimes it's when the PCs set up camp for a long rest. We generally run sessions for about 3 hours, but that can vary if people don't have work at 5am or the kid has managed to fall asleep nicely, so I tend to plan in several acceptable stop options ahead of time, starting at the 2 1/2 hour mark and carrying on to around the 4 hour mark. If I know the crew is approaching something that is going to take a while, and it's hitting close to the 3 hour mark and I know it's going to run too late, I just tell them we're probably at a good stop point for the session and I have work in the morning. Everyone seems pretty ok with that arrangement.
Your advice seems to be extra potent in this video. Maybe it's just more applicable right now with my current GM problems or you are becoming a better teacher. Hope it's the latter one. :) Cool background btw.
I like how Roll20 makes it so easy to know what your rolls are, since they can be a click of a button. Very little time spent trying to figure out what your bonuses are, etc etc.
It's not that Slow Pacing kills games, that's what Bad Pacing does. Explanation: What you were probably thinking of is probably a "Forced Stop" where the game goes from fast to slow without any warning. However, a game can go by too fast as well. If you walk through a character's hometown only to be busy killing werewolves and vampires then leave for the next den or what they are searching for, then the world will feel shallow. All NPC interactions are moments where the pacing slows down naturally. One of the NPCs that my players love was going to die of old age, and called them in so he could get things ready before he had to say goodbye forever. This undoubtedly reduced the pacing to a crawl, and yet it was still one of the most memorable moments. Conclusion: Players do need fast-paced moments, this is absolutely true to avoid things getting stale. But they also need slow moments where they can think about what to do next, talk to NPCs who may know a thing, or perhaps just a moment to take in what has happened and recover from your plot twists.
I tend to make a Combat Cheat Sheet for every character I make. Just basic what is my +to hit? what is my Save DC? what do i roll for damage? Makes it sooo much easier, because i'm slow. My DM have also started naming who will be up next and to think about what they want to do on their turn, to speed up turns, especially with a 6 player party +the gaggle of NPC followers we've adopted.
I use a lot of my old teacher tricks to keep the game progressing and avoiding player induced pacing problems. I remind them of their "homework" at the end of the session, which is to say that I remind them to update their character sheets with any new items/abilities they may have acquired, especially if they've levelled up since they get XP at the end of each session. I do a quick recap of the previous session before we get started, going around the table and asking each player to contribute. Most importantly, I cut off excuses before they start. All players have a chance in session 0 to review character skills and abilities with me before we begin. I help print out sheets and find references for them if they don't have the ability to acquire books. I'll gift dice to those who can't purchase their own. Since we play over Discord (due to the current pandemic situation), I dedicate a read only channel to links for everything they need. In theory, they could join discord, click links to open other windows, and have everything they need as a quick reference, such as spell lists, class abilities, the most recent SRD pdf, dice rollers, etc. I even create a soft copy of all character sheets in our first session and email them to each player in case they want to play completely digital. I take away all excuses and simply refer to our group's rules of conduct and expectations when they attempt to claim some issue. I had a player last week say he didn't have his character sheet. I cut him off immediately but didn't eject him. I told him he'd simply have to play with base statistics. Want to make an ability check, cast a spell, attack in melee? Sure. No problem. If you don't know your stats though, then just take your action with no bonus. We had a situation that called for an arcana check. I would presume a player whose character is a magic user would know that this is an intelligence check and that they'd also know if they have proficiency and what their intelligence is (I've never met a martial player who couldn't tell you his strength score). He said his character would like to make the check. I said, "OK, what did you get?" His response was, "How do I make an arcana check?" After waiting a few seconds for the groans from the other players to settle down, I said, "Your character has a momentary lapse of concentration and can't remember at this time." I didn't kill the pace to chastise or help him figure out something he's done countless times. I simply addressed it as a failed check and the other players then took their turns.
What I would do in case of that bridge would be to allow the guy who went to the city to go there and shop. Usually if a player wants to do shopping that is because he feels like he's missing items or needs to improve his equipment. So I at least give him an option to do so. The other two are fine setting up their camp, so I tell them that they set up camp no issue and that they can take a short rest afterwards if they wish to do so. For the guy going shopping I skip to him going to the town and then do a quick shopping spree with him. Basically I ask him what he is looking for end depending on how rare and how reasonable the item he is looking ofr is I either just allow him to find such a store, straight up deny him in case it is something ridiculous or very specific or as middleground I roll a d6 and if the number rolled is above a number I make up on the fly he finds such a shop, if not then he won't (Note that I'm not doing a full on shopping session, just a quick shopping run). Once he is finished either after doing his shopping or because he just couldn't find a suitable shop, I skip back to the other 2 and tell them that now some hours have passed, they've set up their camp, so did they do anything else (I know my players would have come up with some kind of activities) and if they did I resolve that rather quickly. Then I tell them that now some hours have passed and it starts to turn dark. If they don't say something like they are worried for their missing partner, I continue to tell them that their friend still hasn't returned and should have been back for a while now. And once they are discussing on how to react I have their friend return to the camp - and at that time it is already dark - and then they see an eerie glow coming from the side of one of the hills across the river. If they need more pointing toards the obvious next waypoint there could also be be sounds coming from there and/or some people from town could pass by and tell them that something weird has appeared after that LANDSLIDE ACROSS THE RIVER and they SHOULD EXPLORE that because people don't want to go near it. Ultimatly that one night camp isn't that bad for pacing as they basically take like 20 minutes of downtime activities and then are redirected to the plot. And this way they are back on track without me having to switch around elements of the story.
Thanks, that video helped me and my players alot! Often I encountered as DM this argument or rule lookup problem. Atleast now I know how to better handle it, ghihi!
Something I used to do that improved pacing (and I should probably start doing again, actually) is giving people a break right after I get them to roll for initiative. We take about 10 minutes, they put their initiative rolls in the text chat and take care of things, and I have plenty of time to do what I need to do to have everything ready once we finish the break.
I let my players set the pace. If they engage with something specific, the pace slows. If they don't care enough to ask about or explore the area etc., it goes by line fast travel
Pacing is indeed a crucial aspect that a GM has to take note of. I'll admit that I introduce chaos when players aren't decisive about an aspect. If they're needlessly arguing or stalling, something will always happen. Matt Colville likes to call this "Orcs Attack!", but I tend to have something environmental occur, as dungeons are generally ruins...so cracks form, or water begins to leak in, or they'll hear something...etc. If a player stalls because they do not know they're next action...well....I use a timer. If they go over that timer, they miss their turn. If that happens more than twice, you can BET they'll be prepared next time. I go over this in session zero, so they are pre-warned. With regard to your bridge aspect, I tend to see this as a two way problem. If they won't cross the bridge, then someone or something wants to from the other side - for good or ill. If no bridge exists, I am not beyond having a tree hewn down on the far side to serve as a bridge. If no tree exists, I'm not beyond a tree being grown to full size from a sapling or seed by magic, THEN being hewn down. The sounds of such during a night watch are usually concerning enough to provoke player involvement. Player characters who voluntarily go missing, and thereby hold up other characters, are open prey for any of my machinations. They might be kidnapped, taken through portals, seduced by succubi, etc. Whatever it takes to further drama and tension. I've had a party split right down the middle, and this ended with a massive alliance between two unexpected forces, and (in due course) a wedding. Splitting the party can work - it just requires more work on the DM and the willingness to let things happen organically - again, for good or ill. The loss of information can be supplemented by visions and dreams. Clerics, Warlocks and Paladins are MADE for this sort of input. If they cannot or will not go to the temple, well, take a page from Jerry Holkins. Take the Temple to THEM. The "wandering temple" concept works especially when an item becomes the key/doorway to getting there. The "Out of the Box" that I wrote called "The Lucky Catch" is so inspired where the dungeon/adventure goes to the players. Other tips....And always, watch the clock yourself. Remove all clocks from where you play except where you have one behind the screen. It allows you to control the perception of time, and it removes the concept of clock watching. Pacing is also affected by the DMs attitude. I stand when I DM, but that's not for everyone. I'll walk around the table an RP with players next to them. I tend to talk to players in random order, as they never know who will be called on and when. I'll call on the players for input on names to inns, roads and such. They tend to care more about what they have input on. You can guarantee that the least engaged player will be the FIRST one called upon. And always, if ever possible, end on a cliff hanger. End early if you have to. End late if you have to. But end at the right time when engagement is high. That leaves them wanting more. When you begin net, have the PLAYERS recount the events of the last session. Now you have a measure of what they remembered, what they thought was important, and what they though mattered most. As always, Guy, excellent content. Thanks for the upload.
I understand it can slow things and be frustrating when a character doesn't know how to use their abilities and therefore don't know what to do, but if I know enough about their class and they are a sufficiently new player, then I'd make suggestions, like your a monk, run over here dagger, punch and punch etc...
As a GM i find that my small group of close friends rather likes the party centered plot and adventures i tend to run. My more recent campaign was in gurps, one of my long time players wanted to do "modern fantasy" everyone liked the idea and we agreed on a group of young "investigators" [high school seniors] looking into weird goings on. We went three full sessions without combat, and everyone still had fun. Several confrontations but no actual violence until the final encounter with the supernatural. Over the course of their investigation they ended up questioning what they thought was a suspicious from out of town businessman . . . . who turned out to be a government agent investigating the same thing they were. Great video as always i suppose where you use combat encounters i simply replaced with interpersonal drama between pc's and npc's, the usual "HEY! what are you kids doing here?!" etc they almost got into a fist fight with the local biker gang [youths] but the party was armed and one member de-escalated the situation. Ultimately how my players choose to resolve my plots *IS* the story in my own eyes. It's their adventures, and i keep them busy : )
I actually had a situation like the bridge in one of my games. It was really early (one of my first games GMing too) probably like marker 2 to 3. I needed my players to cross a river with a broken bridge. They were trying to find this magic village that concealed itself in the forest using a cloaking device. The plan was they'd used the nearby trees to build a bridge or a boat (one of the players had a background as a woodworker). Well, it didn't happen, they took a long rest and while they fixed their sheets I moved the path and traps on the other side to where they'd exit the town later on and moved the town to directly on the other side of the bridge. Then I had two NPCs walk through the magic wall to have a picnic outside (Weird for a town that tries to hide but oh well). My players latched on immediately spending about 5 minutes just stalking them (so 5 minutes of me just describing a picnic). Not soon after they were noticed and had some friendly exchanges which made the NPCs open the magic bridge that was hidden over the river just like the village (convenient I know). So the players got some companions that they love and I was able to curb a possibly boring moment. So TL:DR, I think pushing the players naturally into the next plot moment is a good way to keep them from just sitting around bored.
I try to be receptive to my players. if they seem to be not having fun with what I have presented them with then I try to just move that bit along quite abruptly at times if they seem to be rather miserable, which is quite rare but does happen every once in a while. And if they seem to be having fun or enjoying something profusely I drag that bit out as long as it remains juicy.
I remeber having to take the leader role one time our Paladin player was running late and personally didn't want to be leader but did bite the bullet and said: We are going here! Since 10 minutes had been spend with idea of where to go and didn't wanna waste more time.
Players gotta be analysed for how fast they are. I know from experience with my players that their pace is usually zero. It's my responsibility to set it with them.
That was my thought as well - my group is lucky if it takes less than 2 minutes per player half the time. I've come to realize just how many of my friends don't think about what they're going to do until it's time to actually do it...
Guy addresses this in another video and suggests using a timer to limit the player to a set amount of real time to decide what to do. If the timer reaches 0 and the player is still "thinking", they lose their turn and can "think" about what to do until their next turn.
This is one of those things I find is strangely unique to games like D&D. I tend to play WoD and other such games which are more sandbox by design, as such my players tend to become more engaged as they mess with the world. It means I drive everything at the start and the players react to me, but then the reactions of the players set in motion the events which drive the plot further as the world reacts to them more and more. If ever the pace slows, I just draw from my bag of plot hooks to draw them back in. By the end of the story, the only thing you concern yourself with is balancing the enemies.
ah yeah the good old "DM needs more time"-levelup^^, nice video from personal experience: yes practice helps a lot, my pacing got much better since some friends and I DM on a youth seminar for roleplaying where we introduce teens to Pen and Paper. This time we will also make a workshop in how to DM, I think I will set your channel on the recommendation list for people who want to dive further in this topic.
Man, I can relate. Sort of... Our DM usually has a three to five part set up for each session: a hook, the initial incident, the high point, and the declining action with an additional event if we ever needed it. The problem? Some players take too damn long to do things! Sure we have a six player party and one player who is brand new to the game, so he still has to search for decisions. We also have some issues with in-party decision-making. Part of this is simply online communication, the other is that some of us (myself included) are still working out the setting (new world/characters). While those can hurt pacing, they are not the main problem. The problem is much, much worse. The two most experienced players basically demand the most time for the most inane things. We were facing off against monsters in a dungeon, and they HAD to know how old the tools left in the dungeon were. They HAD to double-check the defeated monster for more treasure (its a fucking SPIDER!). One of them got bitten by a were-boar, so we had to make a two hour (IRL) side track to cure him, even though it would take an in-game month before being incurable and the mission was only 5 days. Last session, we had returned to the city from our last mission, and were refitting for the next one. We had to travel upstream to investigate a monster attack. Four of us picked up rations and new gear and were ready to go within 15 minutes irl. Meanwhile, those two burned over an hour of time just to get one spell for their shared spell-book. ONE FUCKING SPELL! We only have 3 and a half hours twice a month! When we got to the village under siege, they needed WAY TOO MANY details, then had to haggle with the village captain over the bounty for helping for 30 minutes! Yes, we wasted almost 2/3 of our entire session for a level 1 spell and and extra 10 gold per PC. But, oh, it gets worse. These two are also rules-lawyers who know the PHB, DM Guide, and Monster Manual better than the DM. The four of us sit during almost every engagement as they haggle with the DM over the HP, AC, and Damage of monsters because, you know, all monsters have the exact same stats! When it does come to fighting, they usually spend the most time thinking on their action, despite the fact that one of us is brand new and this is only my and fifth month of D&D 5E! This is supposed to be an action-heavy hack'n'slash, and we usually spend 2/3 of our time haggling prices, haggling hp, and being indecisive about which spell to use on a freaking zombie.
I tried joining a dnd group one time and the pace was so bad that after 3 sessions we had just arrived the starting town. At the end of 3 sessions (around 3 and a half hours apiece) we had not fought anything or had anything of any note happen. Just aimlessly trying to get to this town for 9 hours. We even had a guy miss the second session and to catch him up on what happened the dm just said that the party still hadn't reached its destination. I can only say my character continued down the path so many times before I get bored . Needless to say I left the group pretty fast. As a first time for both me and someone else this really turned us away from dnd. I still want to try to get into it because it seems fun, I just don't want to feel like my time is wasted.
Ugh, yeah that sounds frustrating I'm sorry you had such a negative first experience. D&D can be one of the best things ever - or the worst. Do try again. Several of the VTTs (Virtual Tabletops) out there, such as Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds have ways to connect with GMs and other players. Make sure the group has a 'Session 0' where everyone discusses expectations.
I'm actually here after last weeks session ended in an argument because one player wouldn't speak up while the others discussed what to do with a necromancer "villain" Think I will use the timer idea
Me as gm: you see a small crystal. As you try to touch it the crystal starts to freeze you take d6 cold damage. Party: maybe if we keep it at body temperature it wont freeze us. We lick it. (Each one of them tookit froze it to their tounge then had someone else rip it off then repeat the process until everyone got a turn and dome people twice)
My friend's rogue in our old Pathfinder group once opened a secret door by licking the wall (he also contracted a disease, since was touch activated but really, really filthy).
![โอ้เธอช่าง... - บี้เดอะสกา ft. ต๋อง เทวัญ (Prod. by ป๋าเพชร) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zbWhiLFmVL0/mqdefault.jpg)
When my players seem to have faltered and can't figure out what to do next, I pick whichever one has the highest skill check for the particular situation and have them roll. If they get a high enough roll, I narrate clues to them as if their character thought of it themselves. For example, if they're looking for the entrance to a cultist's lair, I'll have the thief roll Investigation and if they get a high enough roll I'll say something like "Based on your background with secret doors and traps and such, you start to think, 'If I were trying to hide this door, where would I hide it' and you begin to get a sense that you need to look in ". Things like that seem to go over well with my players.
That's super super clever! My GM does something very similar and I can confirm, as a player it feels very seemless ingame. It's also weirdly comforting because it's giving the DM a chance to flex their knowledge of how your character thinks, feels, how their backstory influences their actions, etc.
I've been watching live play videos and reading posted session reports on the Internet, and wondering why GMs don't do this. I wrote it up the other day as "The Heroes Are Much Better At This Than the Players Would Be." Your implementation, however, is way more refined than what I've come up with on my own. Excellent, and thank you!
@@reverie02 Then I give them another chance in a short while.
This is a good idea. How do I send it to my DM? Lmao
I'm guilty of using "Character PC discussion moments" to take a brief mental breaks. So long as they're having fun. After that I can hit the ground running the last half.
You are hereby found guilty of good time management, my friend!
elaborate please
@@philliphancock336 Ok! My players are really energetic and their Characters get along very well and play off each other very well. They get pulled in this never ending back and forth of role-playing, where they're so busy entertaining each other it feels like a shame to interrupt. Haha. They're very good players and I don't feel like I'm a good enough GM sometimes. While they're off in lala land, I can work on they ideas they've inspired me with, and come up with better encounters, get sip of water, stretch, whatever I need to do to refresh.
@@rociosilverroot2261 That does sound like some quality players.
matt mercer does it all the time. you can see it live during the episodes lol
I know you meant 'a collector who is a gnome', but my brain interpreted it as 'a kidnapper who specializes in gnomes'
Why not "both"? It's great cover as long as there aren't too many witnesses left around. ;o)
Medusa serial killer of gnomes.
Makes them statues and paints them up all nice.
RCDv57 Isn’t that the origin of lawn gnomes?
Gregory Krakovich you know they’re not real if they are hollow
Someone is having Mass Effect 2 flashbacks... "We're taking the fight to the Collectors!"
As someone with poor memory, I can confirm that copying your abilities and rules to a cheat sheet is a godsend
And color coding notes for quick searches on the cheat sheet can be helpful too! Try various methods of organization if it doesn't seem to be working as well as you thought it would.
Or use D&D Beyond!
Players not knowing their abilities or even bothering to learn the core rules are what makes me the most sad as a GM.
I once played a Goliath cleric (storm) who had an INT of 6... he had his spells engraved on small stone tablets he carried around as a focus XD was a bit gimmicky but a fun character to play for the 5 or 6 sessions that game lasted
Thats why i use dnd beyond so i can click my spells list to see its rules
In one of out last sessions, my group and I had a lot of fun just playing our characters having a theological debate. It was a great bonding experience for the PCs, a neat way to introduce some lore to a new player and it accidently triggered some mayor character development when that player's PC started to question his believes. All the good stuff. On the downside, we completely destroyed the pacing and any plans our GM had for this session. Two hours had passed before we got to a conclusion. Didn't we mind? No, because we had fun. Could we have done it faster? Maybe, but it would have felt forced and we would have robbed outselves of some great character play and character development.
What point am I trying to make? It's okay to let the train go off the rail and to enjoy the wild ride while it lasts. Though you better have the tools ready to get everything back on track as soon as things start to slow down. Not earlier.
Or lay down new tracks in front of the train and see where this new journey goes.
Well put
4:40 Memory... I have an absolutely essential tip for this that I have all my players do, and I do this myself as both players and GM.
WRITE PAGE NUMBER BESIDE ABILITY/SPELL/WHATEVER!
This means you can at an instant reference it if you or another player needs a refresh. Do this for everything. Your skills, weapons, and SPELLS!!!
this is one that I have issues with due to a serious car accident years ago. I mix stuff up most notably, confusing for example stuff in Starfinder with pathfinder. But is okay. Because all things on my sheets have page numbers. I make a cheat sheet for basic combat abilities I intend to use, such as trip, or charge.
You dont need to memorize all the rules. Personally speaking, it can be difficult for people. I went from almost photographic memory to often forgetting names. So if cannot remember? Reference.
After all, that is why we have books.
Thats a great idea! Simple and it works. Thank you.
I make all my players write down their abilities on a sheet of paper in an easy to read format + page number for when you have to look up the original description. this way they dont have to look them up most of the time and they have a better overview of what they can do
I am relatively new to 5E and my friend is new to D&D in general and only two sessions of TTRPGs. However, I have tons of experience in other TTRPGs, so I developed an alternate solution: Practice fights.
Our schedules are more open than our group as a whole. We have mock battles between my characters (I have several) and his character. This has not only helped him memorize his stats, how they work, and what spells to use, but also the best ones and when to use them. When we started, he took minutes to to take an action, now he is one of the fastest players, and we have a few who have memorized the PHB and Monster Manual. It is hard to set up time slots, but it is more fun than rote memorization, and can work for several characters over time. That said, key stats for your PC on a note card have been a must for me for 20 years.
I grabbed a 5e spellbook app for my phone, and also found class-specific "spellbook" PDFs on DM Guild that I printed for my caster players so they don't have to thumb through the whole PHB spell list. Having everything right there helps a lot.
This! I've also made myself a player cheat sheet so I can keep an eye on their proficiencies and passives and do on, have a DM corkboard which acts as my DM screen with reminders of what different ability checks are for, conditions, actions in combat, stuff like that, also sticky tabs for my books so I can quickly flip to the loot page or whatever else is often referenced. The bad memory is still likely to come up, but having those things at hand are super helpful.
That blooper was incredible, thank you for adding it.
I'm gonna sit here and quietly chuckle, all the while knowing I'm exactly the dumbass who'd share my screen on discord....you know, the screen with ALL my session and planning notes. What's planned next, the BBEG's abilities etc.../facepalm
OMG the blunder... fortunately, nothing catastrophic
@@subduedpotato7216 I took a picture of roll20 and zoom and posted it on Instagram to show my friends I was playing d&d and I tagged my players in it.....forgetting that they have fog of war and I don’t and I just showed them the full dungeon map 😑
That blooper made the video at least 90% better and it was already fantastic
I always just have a magic train appear out of nowhere from an astral portal before a couple overpowered mercenaries on board the train kidnap the PCs, throw them on the train, and set the train along the railroad towards the plot.
I run horror one-shots and pacing is so critical. Love the marker information. I combine markers with timings (clock time) to give me an idea what time players should hit each marker. Sometimes that means cutting planned scenes short, or completely. Everyone wants (deserves) a satisfying conclusion at the end of the night, and without markers you run the risk of rushing the Big Finale, or worse, not getting to the ending at all!
I DM a lot for my brothers and I've wanted to put them in a horror scenario for a session or two in the campain.
I am relatively experienced but still have trouble finding ways to put them on the edge of their seats.
Do you have any pointers? :)
Their characters are in the lower levels, ca lvl3 to lvl5.
Here's another tip:
If you put too many fast scenes (encounters, fights, action-packed high-octane adventure stuff), you'll exhaust your players. If you put too many slow scenes (planning, talking, etc) you'll bore your players.
So vary your scenes. If things have been slow for a while, have them suddenly come across something exciting. "You are wandering through the woods when you find a knight blocking the path ahead. He refuses to let you pass unless you answer his riddle." Similarly, if things are too fast for a while, slow things down. "After you have killed all the Zombies you notice a Ghoul leaning up against a boulder nearby. 'You gonna eat that?' He asks. What do you do?"
I tend be the GM that just lets players set the pacing and durdle around a lot.
But my players do enjoy that kind of untra-immersive RP, where they end up in longsass planing sessions and talk with NPCs for ages ... so it's actually working out well! :D
GM and players have to agree on what it is. I have seen hack'n'slash and RP heavy work really well, even with the same players. It depends on expectations.
Right now, we are in what is supposed to be a hack'n'slash, but two players wasted hours wooing an elf so that they could get one level 1 spell from her book.
Yes, I think it's about knowing your table. The game I'm running, time is progressing ultra-slowly but the people are enjoying the rp. If things seem to be hitting a lull, I'll nudge things on but if they're having a bonding session between two PCs and immersed, then yes, carry on. The only catch is that sometimes, if two people are doing that, others may get bored but it's accepted in our group that everyone will get their turn to spend that time so people don't mind that much.
One of the biggest problems I have been having is with newer players is they do not roleplay enough in between to make a game seem longer and more interesting. I feel they just need time to get more comfortable about it.
Speaking as someone who basically did a "used LotR as a lore book" as a kid (I was a weird kid) but never had played Dungeons and dragons before, until I started both playing and DMing, "Roleplaying" was always that cringe worthy word you heard talked about in business classes or your particularly determined parent wanted you to do before a job/Uni interview. I love/loved story telling, getting into character, heck, I'm now becoming a writer by trade as my education and chosen career, but I hated the idea of being judged about my performance. I already had "overcome" my introvertedness that makes people think I'm just… not one… and having a character I'm invested in and care a lot about be mocked by a group, let alone a group of *friends* would be devastating.
I don't really know how what I'm about to say will help your players or newer players, but (barring in mind that you're not playing a murderhobo) if you can break out the character traits/behaviors just randomly, in a store where it doesn't matter, where people don't know you, and pretend to be someone else for a while… that helps a lot.
I mean, heck one time a close friend of mine spent the entire time walking around a relatively small mall a good 50+ miles from our respective home towns putting on, and keeping, accents for the entire day.
I do have some advice for your players that they can translate: copy never steal. If you really like the way the Tenth Doctor behaves, perhaps there are some of his quirks in your character. Maybe they come from an MMORPG background and want to play an Orc that is very much WoW not D&D-let them have those mannerisms. (Heck, I get teased just enough by friends that I'm already like Captain' Jack Harkness in my mannerisms/speech patterns ((and proclivities for blue jokes)) that I should just make a character around playing him (since his personality is basically every bard ever? ;P)
But yeah, base a character or set of traits off of a character they love and see themselves in and it will help draw them out. I'm doing that with my newest recruit (I'm DMing) where I'm fighting both shyness and ADD. It took a lot of digging through our shared fandom before I was like "so he's like X crossed with Y?" "Yeah!" "Cool! Just take what you like from their personalities and he'll develop his own in time as you tweak him and play him out."
This. Can't get them to RP but they they complain if it's just an endless battle fest
I am currently running my first campaign. I have been watching your videos religiously for about a month now. You have helped me out so much. My players really enjoy it. Thank you very much.
Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to really get a solid game plan or outline setup?
A part of me wants to try and dm but I'm worried about being either too obsessive about pre planning or being too lax (bc you never know how hard PC choices can change general plan) and have to improv through the majority of the campaign, constantly stressing to adapt and stay just ahead of them.
@@h.s.6269 I just make a basic flow of what I want to happen then I try and fit it into what the PCs are doing. It's been about a month and I've got a general idea about what I want to happen. But yeah definitely don't plan too much because even with my low level of planning, they still manage to screw things up.
digging the new set Guy (disclaimer, I haven't watched any episodes recently, so it's new to me!)
Ditto, Guy is making a strong comeback. Cool haircut and grooming, enjoyable format, nice sets!
I was thinking the same thing haha
You mentioned looking at some of your old videos and releasing this updated look. I know you’ve done it a small number of times, but wanted you to know, you definitely have my vote and support whenever you do. I love your revisits because you always add or update thoughts and theory. Thanks Guy!
I think this video tries to deal with the issue of "the pacing of the game is too slow". But there's another problem that can occur, that is when the pacing is too fast. Sometimes this happens when the GM is too worried about the game becoming too slow (maybe they've just watched this video), or possibly because the GM is feeling disengaged with whatever the players are (happily) doing. Finding the right pace is extremely tricky, and just like with movies and TV-shows, some prefer one style over the other.
Me: so plot happens
Party: no thanks we want to help the cultists set up flaming man
Me as cultist: they thank you but tell you there is no such thing as flaming man. Just Burning Guy.
Party: sure we will help with burning guy.
Me as cultist: great Flaming dude will happen tonight.
Party: I thought it was called Burning guy
Me as cultist: yes
One pc who gets it: what's so hard to understand really really really hot man is going to happen tonight
It was a running joke from that point on to change the name of the event every time it was spoke but burning man was not allowed
@@scoots291 So when is warm lad happening?
damn, I'm super late, did I miss the Blazing Mister?
I hope I'm not too late for Molten Boy.
Did I miss Immolated Dude?
To save the most time put a clock and sticky notes with names and proficiencies on each players head
"Hey Kyle"
*Slaps sticky note on forehead
"Take a seat."
as someone who almost never plays magic-using classes and knows like 0 spells and always has to look up what they do when i am playing one (whether on the sheet or notes), a pacing tip for people like me: read what your spells can do and come up with a plan during someone else's turn. you'll be ready to go by the time you need to act
I feel like the boxes on the side would be awesome downloads for easy reference offline. Ever thought about that?
And now I know why I got a Great GM's streaming notification on a date I totally wasn't expecting it. Too bad I didn't tune in then :D
As always, thanks for your advice, Guy!
That would be great! I'm currently typing down the boxes from this Video 😄
"Read the bloody book!"
Yes! YES!!! This! It's so simple, yet so difficult.
What kills me about this is that I have played with players who have reading disabilities and players who are autistic.... and they find ways to overcome any difficulties in regards to learning their characters.
It's why I get unholy angry at the people who have no such hurdles, but simply refuse to put forth any effort. I call them "baby bird players", because they expect the DM to chew up the rules and feed it to them!
Just. Read. The. Book.
As someone who is; on the spectrum, dyslexic, adhd, and just a general scatterbrained idiot, i can say, I know the damn rules. I know them, fairly well, if I am playing a caster, I know my spells, i put them on cards or whatever, or I use an online tool, whatever it takes.
I had a player once while I was dming, they were new, and, every. Single. ROUND. would ask, "so.... what can I do again?" To my knowledge, no blocks standing in their way, they would just... not know. took no time to learn. it drove me, up a wall. Now, when I say every round, I mean, we played for 3 months, this player was a sibling to another of my players, and they still, 3 months later, would ask every round what they can do. Sibling A literally told me that if I ask sibling B to leave, A would leave to so I put up with it for 3 months...
I've always had issues with pace thanks, it's so hard to get it just right for a party of unique players.
I had a GM once who would ask a player what they wanted to do then count down from 5 if they hesitated. Only in pressure situations where the PC had little time to think or come up with a plan but man was it effective. It was also stressful. We all hated it but understood the reason for it and appreciated that it kept things moving.
I always appreciate these times when you take so much effort to deliver parts of your vast knowledge. I learn so much, every time I watch your content. Thank you! :)
I just start counting down in the text chat. They've never let me get to zero :D
Cruel, but I like it.
I'm with you brother, it's so funny to see them struggling when they hear "10 ... 9 ... 8 ........", because many times they already know what to do but are stuck on minute details
A word of caution for one way dungeon masters might think to fix pacing. The first time I even played D&D, the DM was using a pre existing module. Whenever we got stuck or missed some sort of important checkpoint or were floundering around aimlessly, the DM would shoehorn, or I guess railroad us, into the way forward, or they would simply activate certain requirements themselves so that the scenario could progress to the end (this was a brand new player DMing and we were all new so at least cut him a break on that). Unfortunately the story doesn't have a happy ending and there wasn't a whole lot more D&D because the group was filled with people who would rather not be told what to do or waste their time and saw the potential for having to make up their own minds when the DM has what we're all supposed to do right there after all as a sign of personal weakness and then the jabs and snark started about how useless others were and that was it, really. We were a bunch of high school mates now well out of school and sadly D&D was showing each of us what we were really like, especially when one just liked managing people and eventually managed me out of the circle entirely.
Thank youu. The "every 20 / 40 minute" change something tip is very good as a rule of thumb
Well done! I would add in that keeping a good pace is how you talk. Talking at an above normal pace and keeping the intensity by using descriptive adjectives and strong eye contact will push the players to react faster. Also it is how you look, appropriate body language to the players is needed, if you slouch they slouch. Shoulders back, Sit up straight with intent in your eyes and being interested in what they are doing has a history of pushing things forward. Lastly, if all else fails, I use a timer. Timers have helped me push actions forward to speed up the game when PCs get stuck on problems.
YES, thank you.
the last game I played devolved into a war against gods in like 15 sesions. it was like "what level are we at? 9? cool, and who are we fighting? the raven queen? ok"
Oh my goodness that bit at the end! Haha! Love your videos as always! Thank you for the insight and advice!
I kind of tuned out from your channel for a long time, but this video was absolutely excellent! You've won me back!
I must confess, I'm guilty of not moving things forward like I should. Sometimes, it's good to have some slow moments. It gives the players time to reflect on their characters' actions. Especially if they've done something particularly emotional, I'll give everyone a little time to reflect. My group are usually in for the details of the story, and I'll spend our time where they seem to want detail. Unfortunately, this habit does kill pacing, and I'm not particularly good at getting forward momentum going again. Thanks for the presentation, Guy. It gives me a few things to think about.
I have really come to enjoy your tips video's, I am fairly new to D&D, but I have always love the idea of the game, I only just started playing and hanging out with a group for their main campaign. It has really helped me get a grasp on things first hand, I find it helpful to sit in on a live session because I can message the Dm with questions which he can answer when he has time. Because of the way I think my DM has already mentioned that I would likely do well as a Dm myself even though I have only played a few sessions myself and sat in on a handful of others. Watching your video's is helping boost that confidence, I don't feel I'm quite ready just yet, but I look forward to trying soon. Thank you so much for your content, and keep up the awesome work!! (Also I loved the blooper! I talk to myself too. n.n)
Wow. WOW. I really needed this for plot and pacing. Seems like such a simple thing in retrospect but hindsight is 20/20. Thanks!
I like using Jenga tiles to build maps. They’re surprisingly useful for that
I like the use of flashcards for skills or spells. As a GM I use them for NPC stats.
One thing I find GMs often bog their games down with is the overuse of the Observation or Awareness roll every time the players ask for specific details.
I learned that lesson with Call of Cthulu games. Games are often mystery based, so every detail could be a clue. NEVER give details unless they matter.
Problem is that I am now a player, and several of the others in the party NEED to know every detail and demand to make rolls. Piece of advise to players, if the GM doesn't ask for a roll, or does not make a comment, then it isn't important. If you ask for a check and the GM gives a bland answer, don't ask for more...IT DOESN'T MATTER!
@@samuelzuleger5134 I mean a solution is the DM just telling you this thing doesn't matter, saves a lot of time.
A house rule I use that I feel helps with the pace alittle is
"What you say is what your characters say."
The exception is you say the persons name who you are talking to.
This has I felt kept the pace from going to slow and hilarious when they forget and start talking about a plan of killing a local official right in front of him if he doesn't help thrm.
Me: Pass the Cheetos please?
Duke: Cheetos? What are these Cheetos you speak of!?
There is a trick I picked up from my LARP friends. (I’ve never played a LARP). When you speak out of character you hold one hand across your chest or hold you hand up, fingers crossed. Otherwise, you say it, your character says it.
Need to show this to a friend of mine who lets everything get bogged down in mechanics and hours on end of combat, much to the chagrin of the entire rest of the group... because that was awful. One encounter in particular (this was a Star Wars game by the way) had us in space for six actual real-life hours just killing three defense platforms or whatever they were. Then we found out there were two or three dozen more of them we had to grind through and uh... yeah, he just skipped the rest of that because _SIX HOURS TO KILL THREE THINGS_ and most of us had completely clocked out at hour one. We'd gone into this game expecting a lot of investigation, subterfuge, fast-talking, et cetera. The whole campaign ended up getting derailed by way too much combat.
As for the writing your abilities down - yes, I would definitely agree with that. I personally have everything written down for quick access at any point. It saves so much time to always have everything you can do on hand and ready.
Its funny... I feel like ive heard of the 3-5 markers before, but the way he explained it made it finally click in my head as to how i can better organize my campaigns... thats really cool
I now understand why, as a player people do not like me in their game.. I like the mundane details Michal!
It has been said that system matters and some systems give the Gamemaster more tools and flexibility in controlling pace than others. If the GM is "director" and players "actors", it is the director who sets the pace.
Literally had passing problems yesterday and this just appears in my recommended. Definitely Big Brother doing well.
That Mandalorian helmet is awesome. Love your channel. As a 30+ year GM I still learn from your videos.
Small tip i use on my more elite group's pacing especially in combat.
Reduce the number of steps in one turn.
permission to move here
Granted
(Move)
Permission to attack like this
(Granted)
Attack
Ask roll
(Tell)
Roll
Describe
I move here attack this and this is what i rolled. What happened?
(Roll the dice and tell the result)
Describe the act
Basically I let the players take their turn and tell me what happened. If there is something off i check if it was right.
This only works if you can very reasonably presume that your players won't cheat, know the rules very well, and will use their newly earned power to enhance the game and not abuse it. It is kind of a tall order, but if your group can do it, the pacing of the combat becomes much quicker especially in orpgs.
You know, i was translating some stuff for my game and trying to hear this on the background, but it looks like your advice is really important, so i might as well listen carefully to what you have to say~
Another great video guy! Big shout out to you from this 30yr DM! Same group, every Friday, for that time! Love your channel & top notch advice!
Omg this was a great post. Loved it. This was no fluff, pragmatic and applicable. Loved it!
As a player and DM that spent the entirety of their teenage years doing chatroom roleplays in real time, i can confirm that the story structure shuffling is a usable thing and done commonly when one RPer is hosting/guiding the story (DM role).
My dnd group is almost entirely internet RPers who have developed an internal "Pacing Clock" for lack of a better term, so both players and DMs will start trying to move things along after a while. Sometimes it takes a few people having their Pacing Clocks ping before stuff gets going, but we're usually within a few minutes of each other.
We are forgetful though and the "oops i lost this stat" issue or "what's this spell do again?" pops up more often so i appreciate the tips on moving things along, even though it always sets off everyone's Pacing Clocks when rules stall the flow so we all get antsy until it starts moving again.
My players takes hours to do what takes minutes, and minutes to do what takes hours, and they are happy with that!
15 cent thumbs up. You are a gentleman and a scholar, Sir. :))
This is very helpful - I completely suck at plotting and pacing, and the visuals really helped me wrap my head around it. Cheers ~
This was maybe the most valuable of your videos, to me. It feels like something I can implement immediately.
This is great advice. Improvisation in slow or difficult moments should flow from the main plot structure, or the enemies' plans. This makes dramatic, minimal-preparation home-games very fun and exciting for the GM to run and for players to play.
That said, the details seem pretty focused on D&D 5e, you may want to note that or note how other systems are different.
For players knowing what they are going to do on their turn, ive found calling who is up next to be immensely helpful. Sometimes its hard not to check out while a bunch of enemies and your whole party takes their turns, but if youre alerted that you have 1 turn before you're up, you can spend that turn resurveying the field and pulling up your ability.
With my groups, I have a series of scenes that I want them to play out (hopefully within a single session) but these scenes all have natural beginning and end points. Obviously player agency can get things way of the rails sometimes, but this provides me with good ways to control the pacing and shrink / lengthen the session as needed. It requires some extra planning on my part, but I've found it to work really well with every group I've tested it in. Unless there's an emergency, we never have to stop in the middle of an encounter which has resulted in many of my players telling me that they prefer to be in sessions that I'm running. It also allows me to keep session to between 2-3 hours a pop. Which i find to be the right level of time that most people will stay invested and wear out. Occasionally we've ran longer or shorter as needed, but that timeframe is my sweet spot.
... somehow my group of 3 adventurers grew into 7, and as a neew DM I am struggling to manage any kind of plot that goes beyond the 1 room/environment per session constraints.
I do not want to split the group, so now we're just slowly getting used to a slower pace, and having to interact with so many pcs.
We now had about 6 games in this configuration and we're slowly getting better at coordinating this^^
Although I've never played d&d I find your channel about it so interesting.
12:24 Easy solution for a curious or bloodthirsty party is to put some campfire smoke rising from the other side that someone with good passive perception notices unprompted. It can be whatever you want, on the spot, to get them moving forward. Or ask people to roll a wisdom save, or what their passive perception is when they're stalled, that can add a sense of urgency even when there isn't any.
Love your channel. I'm dming a group of 8.....each and every person showed up!!!
i'm not sure if you have done a video on this before but a humble request/suggestion and if you have done a video on this please feel free to point me to it. How about a video about wrapping a session? how/when to end a session. I personally start my session at 11am and aim to end around 3PM or 5pm to 9pm if it's an evening session. (total of 4 hours is my personal limit before i start to burn out). starting around 30 mins before the end i start trying to steer the narrative to a minor or even major cliffhanger or story beat to end the session on. Doesn't have to be good or bad, just some kind of beat to have a "gotcha" moment. I had a player comment that every session i end with a cliffhanger and it's getting old... he recommend i just run the session naturally and at the end just end the session. I personally don't get that mentality. Curious your take on that.
Hello random person! I didn't find a video of his on this topic but I thought sense I do the exact opposite in my games I would try to lend some help. Now Idk if this helps but my group play much later like 7 to midnight-1am so were all kinda tired by that point (I know that's probably not going to work but I thought I'd explain my weak suggestions) Think about it as if your the player character like the "real person" and some mythical voice at the end of every game said "ha ha gotcha". Its kinda Immersion breaking for that player maybe? (taking it very literally cause its the internet). something I do when I plan for a session is to just write enough that fills the time...now that approach can be had cause like in this video you really gotta have your pacing down and alot of the time, cause I have some chaotic PC's, we miss that mark so around about 5 mins or so to the end I kinda relax, come out of dm mode, and just ask what they think is going to happen next or something along those lines or just something everyday? (idk how close of friends you guys are)...mostly my pc's react with suspicion and/or curiosity of "OmG wHaT's ThE dM pLaNiNg?!?!? WeRe AlL gOiNg To DiE!! even if we like just entered a town or something completely non threatening. I hope this might help getting you to understand how they are feeling :D
Again, varies group-to-group, but my groups (whether I was GM or not) set a start and end to the session. That way, the cliffhanger is generally expected.
A group I am in now runs from 7pm to 10:30pm on a weeknight. As such, that 10:30 is a hard stop. The GM (I am a player) had a whole lot set up, but a few players have to haggle over everything. Anyway, we had a set of three encounters set up, but took too long to get started on them. We were finishing up the first at about 9:50, so the DM threw in a few more low level monsters to burn the last 45 minutes since the next encounter would take way longer than 45 minutes at the rate we were going. When done killing the last one (at 10:15), he told us that was a wrap and that we would pick up from there next time.
TL;DR: Set an established time for the end of sessions so that your players can see it coming. Then, the cliffhanger feels less like a jerk move and more like the old tv show "See you next week for our characters' next adventure!"
@@samuelzuleger5134 TL;DR: Set an established time for the end of sessions so that your players can see it coming. Then, the cliffhanger feels less like a jerk move and more like the old tv show "See you next week for our characters' next adventure!" -- that's what i do. IE try to end on a small reveal or right as they open the door to a bunch of treasure or w/e.
My group deals with swung-shift work schedules and angry toddlers that demand sessions get ended soon, so I just look for a good break point when we start running out of time or the kobold, I mean baby, gets angry & tired. Sometimes it's a cliffhanger, sometimes it's after finishing the encounter we're on, and sometimes it's when the PCs set up camp for a long rest. We generally run sessions for about 3 hours, but that can vary if people don't have work at 5am or the kid has managed to fall asleep nicely, so I tend to plan in several acceptable stop options ahead of time, starting at the 2 1/2 hour mark and carrying on to around the 4 hour mark. If I know the crew is approaching something that is going to take a while, and it's hitting close to the 3 hour mark and I know it's going to run too late, I just tell them we're probably at a good stop point for the session and I have work in the morning. Everyone seems pretty ok with that arrangement.
Dig the new look. Great video. Keep up the great work.
Your advice seems to be extra potent in this video. Maybe it's just more applicable right now with my current GM problems or you are becoming a better teacher. Hope it's the latter one. :) Cool background btw.
I like how Roll20 makes it so easy to know what your rolls are, since they can be a click of a button.
Very little time spent trying to figure out what your bonuses are, etc etc.
It's not that Slow Pacing kills games, that's what Bad Pacing does.
Explanation: What you were probably thinking of is probably a "Forced Stop" where the game goes from fast to slow without any warning. However, a game can go by too fast as well. If you walk through a character's hometown only to be busy killing werewolves and vampires then leave for the next den or what they are searching for, then the world will feel shallow. All NPC interactions are moments where the pacing slows down naturally. One of the NPCs that my players love was going to die of old age, and called them in so he could get things ready before he had to say goodbye forever. This undoubtedly reduced the pacing to a crawl, and yet it was still one of the most memorable moments.
Conclusion: Players do need fast-paced moments, this is absolutely true to avoid things getting stale. But they also need slow moments where they can think about what to do next, talk to NPCs who may know a thing, or perhaps just a moment to take in what has happened and recover from your plot twists.
Great guy, enjoying your content very much.
Greetings from Germany
I tend to make a Combat Cheat Sheet for every character I make. Just basic what is my +to hit? what is my Save DC? what do i roll for damage? Makes it sooo much easier, because i'm slow. My DM have also started naming who will be up next and to think about what they want to do on their turn, to speed up turns, especially with a 6 player party +the gaggle of NPC followers we've adopted.
I use a lot of my old teacher tricks to keep the game progressing and avoiding player induced pacing problems. I remind them of their "homework" at the end of the session, which is to say that I remind them to update their character sheets with any new items/abilities they may have acquired, especially if they've levelled up since they get XP at the end of each session. I do a quick recap of the previous session before we get started, going around the table and asking each player to contribute. Most importantly, I cut off excuses before they start. All players have a chance in session 0 to review character skills and abilities with me before we begin. I help print out sheets and find references for them if they don't have the ability to acquire books. I'll gift dice to those who can't purchase their own. Since we play over Discord (due to the current pandemic situation), I dedicate a read only channel to links for everything they need. In theory, they could join discord, click links to open other windows, and have everything they need as a quick reference, such as spell lists, class abilities, the most recent SRD pdf, dice rollers, etc. I even create a soft copy of all character sheets in our first session and email them to each player in case they want to play completely digital. I take away all excuses and simply refer to our group's rules of conduct and expectations when they attempt to claim some issue. I had a player last week say he didn't have his character sheet. I cut him off immediately but didn't eject him. I told him he'd simply have to play with base statistics. Want to make an ability check, cast a spell, attack in melee? Sure. No problem. If you don't know your stats though, then just take your action with no bonus. We had a situation that called for an arcana check. I would presume a player whose character is a magic user would know that this is an intelligence check and that they'd also know if they have proficiency and what their intelligence is (I've never met a martial player who couldn't tell you his strength score). He said his character would like to make the check. I said, "OK, what did you get?" His response was, "How do I make an arcana check?" After waiting a few seconds for the groans from the other players to settle down, I said, "Your character has a momentary lapse of concentration and can't remember at this time." I didn't kill the pace to chastise or help him figure out something he's done countless times. I simply addressed it as a failed check and the other players then took their turns.
I constantly watch experienced GMs to be a better DM and avoid falling into traps.
What I would do in case of that bridge would be to allow the guy who went to the city to go there and shop. Usually if a player wants to do shopping that is because he feels like he's missing items or needs to improve his equipment. So I at least give him an option to do so. The other two are fine setting up their camp, so I tell them that they set up camp no issue and that they can take a short rest afterwards if they wish to do so. For the guy going shopping I skip to him going to the town and then do a quick shopping spree with him. Basically I ask him what he is looking for end depending on how rare and how reasonable the item he is looking ofr is I either just allow him to find such a store, straight up deny him in case it is something ridiculous or very specific or as middleground I roll a d6 and if the number rolled is above a number I make up on the fly he finds such a shop, if not then he won't (Note that I'm not doing a full on shopping session, just a quick shopping run). Once he is finished either after doing his shopping or because he just couldn't find a suitable shop, I skip back to the other 2 and tell them that now some hours have passed, they've set up their camp, so did they do anything else (I know my players would have come up with some kind of activities) and if they did I resolve that rather quickly. Then I tell them that now some hours have passed and it starts to turn dark. If they don't say something like they are worried for their missing partner, I continue to tell them that their friend still hasn't returned and should have been back for a while now. And once they are discussing on how to react I have their friend return to the camp - and at that time it is already dark - and then they see an eerie glow coming from the side of one of the hills across the river. If they need more pointing toards the obvious next waypoint there could also be be sounds coming from there and/or some people from town could pass by and tell them that something weird has appeared after that LANDSLIDE ACROSS THE RIVER and they SHOULD EXPLORE that because people don't want to go near it.
Ultimatly that one night camp isn't that bad for pacing as they basically take like 20 minutes of downtime activities and then are redirected to the plot. And this way they are back on track without me having to switch around elements of the story.
Thanks, that video helped me and my players alot! Often I encountered as DM this argument or rule lookup problem. Atleast now I know how to better handle it, ghihi!
I love that you left your blunder in the video. Your live-stream earlier this week was great ^^
Something I used to do that improved pacing (and I should probably start doing again, actually) is giving people a break right after I get them to roll for initiative. We take about 10 minutes, they put their initiative rolls in the text chat and take care of things, and I have plenty of time to do what I need to do to have everything ready once we finish the break.
I let my players set the pace. If they engage with something specific, the pace slows. If they don't care enough to ask about or explore the area etc., it goes by line fast travel
Pacing is indeed a crucial aspect that a GM has to take note of. I'll admit that I introduce chaos when players aren't decisive about an aspect. If they're needlessly arguing or stalling, something will always happen. Matt Colville likes to call this "Orcs Attack!", but I tend to have something environmental occur, as dungeons are generally ruins...so cracks form, or water begins to leak in, or they'll hear something...etc.
If a player stalls because they do not know they're next action...well....I use a timer. If they go over that timer, they miss their turn. If that happens more than twice, you can BET they'll be prepared next time. I go over this in session zero, so they are pre-warned.
With regard to your bridge aspect, I tend to see this as a two way problem. If they won't cross the bridge, then someone or something wants to from the other side - for good or ill. If no bridge exists, I am not beyond having a tree hewn down on the far side to serve as a bridge. If no tree exists, I'm not beyond a tree being grown to full size from a sapling or seed by magic, THEN being hewn down. The sounds of such during a night watch are usually concerning enough to provoke player involvement.
Player characters who voluntarily go missing, and thereby hold up other characters, are open prey for any of my machinations. They might be kidnapped, taken through portals, seduced by succubi, etc. Whatever it takes to further drama and tension. I've had a party split right down the middle, and this ended with a massive alliance between two unexpected forces, and (in due course) a wedding. Splitting the party can work - it just requires more work on the DM and the willingness to let things happen organically - again, for good or ill.
The loss of information can be supplemented by visions and dreams. Clerics, Warlocks and Paladins are MADE for this sort of input. If they cannot or will not go to the temple, well, take a page from Jerry Holkins. Take the Temple to THEM. The "wandering temple" concept works especially when an item becomes the key/doorway to getting there. The "Out of the Box" that I wrote called "The Lucky Catch" is so inspired where the dungeon/adventure goes to the players.
Other tips....And always, watch the clock yourself. Remove all clocks from where you play except where you have one behind the screen. It allows you to control the perception of time, and it removes the concept of clock watching. Pacing is also affected by the DMs attitude. I stand when I DM, but that's not for everyone. I'll walk around the table an RP with players next to them. I tend to talk to players in random order, as they never know who will be called on and when. I'll call on the players for input on names to inns, roads and such. They tend to care more about what they have input on. You can guarantee that the least engaged player will be the FIRST one called upon. And always, if ever possible, end on a cliff hanger. End early if you have to. End late if you have to. But end at the right time when engagement is high. That leaves them wanting more.
When you begin net, have the PLAYERS recount the events of the last session. Now you have a measure of what they remembered, what they thought was important, and what they though mattered most.
As always, Guy, excellent content. Thanks for the upload.
I understand it can slow things and be frustrating when a character doesn't know how to use their abilities and therefore don't know what to do, but if I know enough about their class and they are a sufficiently new player, then I'd make suggestions, like your a monk, run over here dagger, punch and punch etc...
As a GM i find that my small group of close friends rather likes the party centered plot and adventures i tend to run. My more recent campaign was in gurps, one of my long time players wanted to do "modern fantasy" everyone liked the idea and we agreed on a group of young "investigators" [high school seniors] looking into weird goings on.
We went three full sessions without combat, and everyone still had fun.
Several confrontations but no actual violence until the final encounter with the supernatural. Over the course of their investigation they ended up questioning what they thought was a suspicious from out of town businessman . . . . who turned out to be a government agent investigating the same thing they were.
Great video as always i suppose where you use combat encounters i simply replaced with interpersonal drama between pc's and npc's, the usual "HEY! what are you kids doing here?!" etc they almost got into a fist fight with the local biker gang [youths] but the party was armed and one member de-escalated the situation. Ultimately how my players choose to resolve my plots *IS* the story in my own eyes. It's their adventures, and i keep them busy : )
There doesn't have to be an ogre attack every time I go shopping.
That's just annoying and impossibly frustrating.
5:25 I have that house rule, I call it "Get on with it!"
Nothing better than seeing your infallible DM Guide do something incredibly humanizing.
I actually had a situation like the bridge in one of my games. It was really early (one of my first games GMing too) probably like marker 2 to 3. I needed my players to cross a river with a broken bridge. They were trying to find this magic village that concealed itself in the forest using a cloaking device. The plan was they'd used the nearby trees to build a bridge or a boat (one of the players had a background as a woodworker). Well, it didn't happen, they took a long rest and while they fixed their sheets I moved the path and traps on the other side to where they'd exit the town later on and moved the town to directly on the other side of the bridge. Then I had two NPCs walk through the magic wall to have a picnic outside (Weird for a town that tries to hide but oh well). My players latched on immediately spending about 5 minutes just stalking them (so 5 minutes of me just describing a picnic). Not soon after they were noticed and had some friendly exchanges which made the NPCs open the magic bridge that was hidden over the river just like the village (convenient I know). So the players got some companions that they love and I was able to curb a possibly boring moment.
So TL:DR, I think pushing the players naturally into the next plot moment is a good way to keep them from just sitting around bored.
I try to be receptive to my players. if they seem to be not having fun with what I have presented them with then I try to just move that bit along quite abruptly at times if they seem to be rather miserable, which is quite rare but does happen every once in a while. And if they seem to be having fun or enjoying something profusely I drag that bit out as long as it remains juicy.
Another great video, thank you Guy!
I remeber having to take the leader role one time our Paladin player was running late and personally didn't want to be leader but did bite the bullet and said: We are going here! Since 10 minutes had been spend with idea of where to go and didn't wanna waste more time.
Good video! I watched that stream haha
Players gotta be analysed for how fast they are. I know from experience with my players that their pace is usually zero. It's my responsibility to set it with them.
Thank you very much, Guy! Although I believe, most times my pacing is goo, this was very helpful! Keep on.
16:28 "A 4 PC party will take roughly 2 minutes per combat round" - in what world? it takes several minutes per person usually...
That was my thought as well - my group is lucky if it takes less than 2 minutes per player half the time. I've come to realize just how many of my friends don't think about what they're going to do until it's time to actually do it...
Guy addresses this in another video and suggests using a timer to limit the player to a set amount of real time to decide what to do. If the timer reaches 0 and the player is still "thinking", they lose their turn and can "think" about what to do until their next turn.
Great video as always.
But I would put some seldom used books under that katana stand so that the katana wouldn't need to be there upside down :)
This is one of those things I find is strangely unique to games like D&D. I tend to play WoD and other such games which are more sandbox by design, as such my players tend to become more engaged as they mess with the world. It means I drive everything at the start and the players react to me, but then the reactions of the players set in motion the events which drive the plot further as the world reacts to them more and more. If ever the pace slows, I just draw from my bag of plot hooks to draw them back in. By the end of the story, the only thing you concern yourself with is balancing the enemies.
BRILLIANT !...
I'd definitely watch streams of how to be a great GM !!... x')
ah yeah the good old "DM needs more time"-levelup^^, nice video from personal experience: yes practice helps a lot, my pacing got much better since some friends and I DM on a youth seminar for roleplaying where we introduce teens to Pen and Paper. This time we will also make a workshop in how to DM, I think I will set your channel on the recommendation list for people who want to dive further in this topic.
Great re-upload 😁
Man, I can relate. Sort of...
Our DM usually has a three to five part set up for each session: a hook, the initial incident, the high point, and the declining action with an additional event if we ever needed it. The problem? Some players take too damn long to do things!
Sure we have a six player party and one player who is brand new to the game, so he still has to search for decisions. We also have some issues with in-party decision-making. Part of this is simply online communication, the other is that some of us (myself included) are still working out the setting (new world/characters).
While those can hurt pacing, they are not the main problem. The problem is much, much worse.
The two most experienced players basically demand the most time for the most inane things. We were facing off against monsters in a dungeon, and they HAD to know how old the tools left in the dungeon were. They HAD to double-check the defeated monster for more treasure (its a fucking SPIDER!). One of them got bitten by a were-boar, so we had to make a two hour (IRL) side track to cure him, even though it would take an in-game month before being incurable and the mission was only 5 days. Last session, we had returned to the city from our last mission, and were refitting for the next one. We had to travel upstream to investigate a monster attack. Four of us picked up rations and new gear and were ready to go within 15 minutes irl. Meanwhile, those two burned over an hour of time just to get one spell for their shared spell-book. ONE FUCKING SPELL! We only have 3 and a half hours twice a month! When we got to the village under siege, they needed WAY TOO MANY details, then had to haggle with the village captain over the bounty for helping for 30 minutes! Yes, we wasted almost 2/3 of our entire session for a level 1 spell and and extra 10 gold per PC. But, oh, it gets worse. These two are also rules-lawyers who know the PHB, DM Guide, and Monster Manual better than the DM. The four of us sit during almost every engagement as they haggle with the DM over the HP, AC, and Damage of monsters because, you know, all monsters have the exact same stats! When it does come to fighting, they usually spend the most time thinking on their action, despite the fact that one of us is brand new and this is only my and fifth month of D&D 5E!
This is supposed to be an action-heavy hack'n'slash, and we usually spend 2/3 of our time haggling prices, haggling hp, and being indecisive about which spell to use on a freaking zombie.
Sounds like its time to find a new group, especially if you've brought these issues up with the other players and nothings been addressed or changed.
I tried joining a dnd group one time and the pace was so bad that after 3 sessions we had just arrived the starting town. At the end of 3 sessions (around 3 and a half hours apiece) we had not fought anything or had anything of any note happen. Just aimlessly trying to get to this town for 9 hours. We even had a guy miss the second session and to catch him up on what happened the dm just said that the party still hadn't reached its destination. I can only say my character continued down the path so many times before I get bored . Needless to say I left the group pretty fast. As a first time for both me and someone else this really turned us away from dnd. I still want to try to get into it because it seems fun, I just don't want to feel like my time is wasted.
Ugh, yeah that sounds frustrating I'm sorry you had such a negative first experience. D&D can be one of the best things ever - or the worst. Do try again. Several of the VTTs (Virtual Tabletops) out there, such as Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds have ways to connect with GMs and other players. Make sure the group has a 'Session 0' where everyone discusses expectations.
YESSS Pacing is so important!!!
The best thing I ever did to improve pacing was switching from hero/D&d/pathfinder like games to PbtA games.
I'm actually here after last weeks session ended in an argument because one player wouldn't speak up while the others discussed what to do with a necromancer "villain"
Think I will use the timer idea
Me as gm: you see a small crystal. As you try to touch it the crystal starts to freeze you take d6 cold damage.
Party: maybe if we keep it at body temperature it wont freeze us. We lick it.
(Each one of them tookit froze it to their tounge then had someone else rip it off then repeat the process until everyone got a turn and dome people twice)
My friend's rogue in our old Pathfinder group once opened a secret door by licking the wall (he also contracted a disease, since was touch activated but really, really filthy).
Your cultist recruitment voice reminds me of Jonathan Winters’ Maude Frickert character. Great flashback for me.