Just toss your pride in the back seat and declare an emergency. No more confusion, just follow the vectors and alt changes. No paperwork, just say help! I was a controller for over 40 yrs, pilots declaring does not piss anyone off. Pilots, when in doubt, declare, nothing happens except you are the number #1 focus and priority. The controller will ask a few questions so they're fully aware and then it's all about getting you down safely.
Love your synopsis! When it comes to life or death, definitely swallow your pride ASAP! I hope many pilots see your comments. Going to pin this to the top! Thanks again for the visit!
I have had 2 heart attacks. Once when I went to the hospital when I was not having a heart attack, but having chest pains, the nurse asked me why I waited so long to go? "I feel stupid if its a false alarm". She laid right into me about foolish pride, and stressed that nobody would think twice about having a guy come in with chest pains. She then asked a couple of others for their opinion and they agreed with her. She got her point across. When you think you need help you definitely need help. And only a fool doesn't take it when its right there.
This flight was doomed from engine start. Not a checklist within a million miles. No CIGAR. No pre-takeoff avionics configuration. No departure briefing. No line up check. No after takeoff or cruise checks. Almost lost it on takeoff. No approach brief (that goes without saying) Absolute disaster from the beginning. The pilot was so far behind the airplane, it’s a miracle he’s survived as long as he did. It’s so sad for the poor innocent people on board.
It was mostly kids on board his kids and others, and not only did he not do all that you mentioned he didn't diagnose the master caution before they took off this guy was a complete douche I mean you could just tell by all of the filthy language he was in way over his head in one of the most advanced general aviation aircraft in the world super powerful super fast that guy had no business anywhere near that airplane much less in the cockpit.
I disagree. A fully competent PILOT could have done everything wrong that you mentioned above and then finally held the damn thing straight and level, figured out his problem and saved the day. This guy was not a competent airman in any respect. No amount of "procedural correctness or briefings" could have saved his bacon. He was an accident waiting for a place to happen.
Not just a failure of competence, either. A failure of character. A pilot who takes seriously the safety of the lives on board does not treat flying like taking his subaru to the quick shop to get a bag of chips. This guy didn't care enough about his passengers to take the slightest precautions for them.
I have a PC12. It is a very complex plane and unbelievably beautiful to fly IF you have the proper training and hours in such a sophisticated machine. The fact that these guys are flying a complex plane, or ANY airplane is beyond shocking and a travesty! Whose airplane was it and HOW the hell were these clowns allowed in it? Poor passengers.
I have read a ton of CVR transcripts and accident reports over the years. This one is one of if not the worst I heave seen. This wasn’t a bad day this was just absolute incompetence, failure to plan, failure to level the wings and sort it out to live another day. RIP
And with kids on-board. This probably isnt analogous but when I drive other peoples kids I am always on my best behavior. Don't even want the appearance of liability with other peoples precious cargo.
How did these 2 get in the cockpit? How can we ensure this doesn’t happen to one of us while on vacationing in Martha’s Vineyard. The plane and disorientation thing reminds me of the JFK crash in 1999
Thanks for visiting and commenting. If this was a script for a movie, many would call it fiction. Very unfortunate, especially in consideration of the younger passengers. Cheers!
I've been flying 28.5 years and what I witnessed in this transcript was beyond comprehension. I couldn't even call these two individuals in the cockpit pilots. They broke every rule in aviation and sounded like they were absolutely clueless. RIP to the 8 victims.
Thanks for watching and commenting! The more comments I read on this flight, the deeper this tragedy sinks in. “Beyond comprehension” will stand as one of the top descriptors!
I've never flown and I never will because of this right here. I don't know who's up there flying. Can someone please explain how they even managed to get their license and who ok'd these two to fly a plane they obviously wasn't qualified for. Innocent people had to die because of it. It's garbage
@@jacksams1011how did they get their license? They passed a knowledge test and a checkride. You could also pass this test with the proper amount of studying and instruction. Flying is not rocket science. The pc12 was way out of their league obviously. They didn’t seem to have much flying experience, atleast in IFR and a complex turbo prop. Had they been in a 172 they might have made it. I feel awful for the passengers, these guys had a duty to get them home safely and failed. They could have learned to program the nav in flight simulator. They would probably be alive today with more training in type
@@vampiresforesl Seems like there was no visibility due to clouds - and was overloaded with trying to get Autopilot back online in order to save their bacon. Plus someone mentioned runaway trim.
These boys were way past declaring an emergency. They just needed to fly the airplane , wings level and 60% throttle should have done the trick. And if you need to navigate then ease the nose over to the Big W /270 degrees and land will soon appear. The pilot should stop talking and only fly with wings level and trim for zero clime or descent , 60% throttle. Old pilots were taught this when they were young pilots. Pilots who fly in bad weather are buried in sunshine.
sadly the one thing they couldnt do is fly the plane; the autopilot was the only one who could. this EXACT crash occurred to one coming back from florida. once the autopilot tripped off they were doomed.
Very sad to imagine the confusion and frustration they were experiencing. Thank you for putting this together. It will be interesting to see what the NTSB comes back with.
Thank you for visiting and commenting! Recover of the voice data certainly conveys the atmosphere and mood of the pilots. So unfortunate for things to snowball out of control. Blue skies!
@@jonasbaine3538 Yes, but things changes, procedures STAR or IAC change in flight, destination, weather, but seemssssssssssssssssssssss, just say, seeems, that they do not dknow wtf were doing inside that thing.
@@pedroisctube That is what is so astonishing and revealing about the transcript. Simple 2 waypoint flight between airports and it was just a disaster ... almost like the avionics were not working properly. Almost like they were new to the FMS!
Some people mentally are just not capable of being a pilot. I am astonished this pilot ever managed to pass the written portion of the test. I cannot see anything he did that was even merely adequate. The outcome is not surprising.
There are a lot of things that can affect our performance and behavior. We, the armchair quarterbacks, cannot understand how someone could be checked out in a sophisticated airplane like the Pilatus and *not* know what a particular warning horn was, nor how to remedy it. Furthermore, we cannot understand why he would not have entered even a basic VFR flight plan into the FMS, knowing (as he surely did) that there was special-use airspace along his route of flight. It's puzzling - how could a supposedly-competent pilot make these errors? It is very clear that the PIC did little-to-no flight planning. Seems like they just got to the airport, loaded up, jumped in and went. Clearly, this PIC (the father) was sick. He mentioned that he had a lot of back pain - so much that he was taking oxycodone (which he even admitted on the CVR). The day prior to the flight, he reported to his regular doctor that he still had pain in his hip, leg and back. He had told his oncologist (cancer doctor) that the back pain was from "breaking concrete." The guy was 67 years old and 221 pounds, so...maybe he was out swinging a sledgehammer...maybe not. PLUS! He became positive for COVID-19 just the month prior to the accident. From the coughing we hear (read) on the CVR transcript, he was still suffering from the effects of it. Maybe he had a worse case than he was admitting? The frequent frustrated exhalations on the CVR make me think he was expending quite a lot of energy just managing his pain, and that was probably diverting his attention away from the task at hand. He sounds really distracted. He initially didn't want to curse in front of his (adult) son, but as things get worse and worse and his frustration increases, he lets the F-bombs and other curse words fly. Man, I've been there! Thankfully, just not in the cockpit of a big plane with a bunch of passengers whose lives depend on me. His son, only a 20-hour student pilot but acting as "copilot" for this trip was evidently not all that familiar with how the FMS worked, especially when it came to entering flight plans. Sometimes unqualified copilots can be more of a hindrance than a help. The PIC ends up having to his own job AND monitor the other guy, making sure he does the right things. It actually 'increases' the workload instead of decreasing it. I'm no accident investigator, but I believe that this pilot was impaired in some way that compromised his ability to manage what should have been a short, simple flight. Was it the back pain? Was it the oxycodone? Was it the COVID? Was it something else? According to the NTSB, they never recovered his body, so we'll probably never find out. But if ever there was a pilot who probably should have grounded himself until his COVID and other pain issues were resolved, it was him. Sad.
Wow! Great “Cole’s Notes” version. It will be interesting to see how much emphasis is placed on the pilot’s health when the final NTSB report is published. True about the son weighing in on the workload also … just adding to the frustration level! Thanks again for your thorough insight!
If you're taking hydrocodone fairly regularly, with me I didn't notice any effects. But pain, that can affect everything! Hip pain sitting will make you wish you were dead.
Only 20 hours??? These fellas should have NEVER gotten into that cockpit. And that boy should have been in a 150. The Pilatus is a VERY high performance turboprop airplane. It's an easy plane to fly but very hard to understand if you're a new pilot. And impossible to understand with only 20 hours of experience. There needed to be an adult around that day to keep them on the ground. RIP to all!!!
Even an armchair quarterback has enough common sense to see this pilot was totally out of his league and killed a bunch of people in a working aircraft needlessly.
@@chrislaswell5572It can be good experience for a student depending on how much the student does. I have a chief pilot at my flight school who will right seat an instrument student, but you have to be ready for it and understand the responsibility of it.
And as a pilot, you know immediately when you are behind. Depending on the issue, it can put you in a very uneasy state that only complicates future progress in the flight. Definitely very sad.
Thanks for the video. May I make a suggestion? Your information is good. Perhaps you could allow your pages to remain in place, especially those with long commentary, a bit longer. I consider myself a good reader, yet there was insuffecient time to read the print at a moderate pace, before the next frame. I look forward to more of your work.
Thanks for watching. Your comments are appreciated! Will add a few extra seconds for the longer commentary sections for future videos of this format. Cheers!
@@johnmclean6498 Thanks for the response. I use the phone almost exclusively, as I am sure some real pilots do when on the road, on break. Being that 90% of YT users are on their phone devices, and I'm not sure about the iPhone, however Android is a pain for pausing and rewind (I do it constantly). Then there is the small text, which I can magnify, but YT app touchscreen commands are quite odd and clunky. If you miss the right touch spot by a millimeter, another unintended feature is activated. I put up with all of that without complaint. I'm sure many viewers are content with a synopsis of events, and we know anything over 12 minutes rarely gets views. I watch over 20 hours a week of YT, and quite a few aviation channels. I want this newer channel to get maximum views. My thought was if I share things the channel owner may run into growing the channel, it may be good for him , too. It's like a convenience store here in the U.S. I you don't carry cigarettes, beer, gas, and lottery tickets, then there is no need to hire help any time soon. Best wishes my friend!
I would rather the screens not take too long. If I need more time I simply hit pause and take a as long as I want. Going to slow is very frustrating since it isn't as easy, especially on my phone, to make precise movements to the next screen. Waiting around until everyone in the class catches up is tiresome.
Just found your channel. Love it. Subscribed ASAP! My one brush with a close call was the summer of 1989 July. I was 16 and flying back home to South Dakota from Massachusetts. I decided to stay 1 week longer and I am glad I did. My flight would have been the United Airlines Sioux City flight 232 that crashed on the runway and killed 117 people. There's video footage of it. On our way we had to stop on the tarmac at Sioux City Airport and we saw the devastation first hand. Everything was all black and very unsettling. Especially thinking that I could have been one of those poor passengers just a week ago. I was a nervous wreck the short way home. That's something you'll never get to see usually or experience. All these years later and it still haunts me. I give mad respect for any pilot that endures this day by day. Hats off to you!
I worked for a jetliner company for 20 years, as an acoustics guy, I helped playback voice recorder data recovered from crashes involving our aircraft. Its a sad, solemn thing to listen to a person's last words. I never got accustomed to it.
In 1978, my ancient, Korean War pilot & CFI hammered "Aviate-Navigate-Communicate" in that order. Years later, in USAF UPT we were taught: "1. Maintain Aircraft Control, 2. Analyze the Situation, 3. Take Proper Action..." how in the heck any rated pilot can take a perfectly flyable aircraft with 4300' of altitude; then stall and crash it should be beyond comprehension. Accidents involving seemingly controllable aircraft with ample altitude is deeply concerning. It raises crucial questions about the effectiveness of current training, pilots' basic understanding of systems and the potential presence of systemic factors contributing to these tragedies. With the current push to rush new pilots through the system to fill open airline flight decks, we must collectively examine these events with a critical and objective lens to ensure the future safety of our skies.
Don't know how these two guys ever got their pilot licenses and their type rating. They didn't know a single thing about the aircraft they were flying and its navigation systems. It actually seemed they didn't even know the basics of aircraft flight.
Oh, I think anyone can see how there was no other outcome possible but a crash. These guys were clueless. They were well into the criminal range. They weren't even careless and wreckless yet; they never got that far. They were clueless and witless. Laurel and Hardy. They never should have been allowed to drive to an airport to even LOOK at the planes.
@@megadavis5377 I know they didn't win any airmanship awards, based on the transcript. But, there is a possibility the plane had issues that were undetectable before the flight.
It was due to the total and utter incompetence of the crew! These idiots shouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near an aeroplane, let alone be allowed to fly one!!
Flying a plane is not like getting in your car, starting it, and following Apple Maps through a complicated city of roads. As a truck driver, I do my pre trip inspection, do the required paperwork, plan my route, drive, check mirrors, surrounds, make sure gauge’s are within normal range, drive repeat. None of that stuff was followed here for flight.
Wow, so sad. I don't know the PIC's experience but given that he was in the PC-12 I suspect it was significant. Nothing about this flight went well. There seemed to be no preparation and no competence with the avionics. Basic IFR principles weren't followed as this wasn't flown on an instrument flight plan, only flight following. I get the impression that the pilot didn't even have a plan of where they were going except for "just follow the coast". This shouldn't be used to blast the pour souls that were lost that day but a warning for the rest of us. Everything has to be set before launching otherwise you are starting the flight behind the airplane. Know your avionics cold, never expect the person you are flying with to be able to do anything for you (great if they can help but you must know everything about the plane). If W&B was ignored, when they got slow he may not have been able to push the nose down and his attempt to add power only lead to an accelerated stall. In potentially IFR conditions along route (even if VFR on top) just file a flight plan, it's not any more work and far safer. Lastly, while not "legal" for IFR flight, if they just had some redundancy in the cockpit like Foreflight they likely wouldn't have lost situational awareness that exacerbated their already stressed response to not being able to program their avionics. RIP
Thanks for your wonderful commentary. Points well taken and potentially life saving reminders for all pilots. I firmly believe that taking a few minutes before liftoff to enter 2 waypoints between the departure and landing airports and this video would not exist. Blue skies!
I don’t usually go for videos that are text based, but this one was interesting. I’m Usually doing something else and listening more than watching. One of the things that kept me going was the wonderful music bed. Great choices.
Yeah, and can you believe they launched in a PC12 with 900 ft. ceilings enroute/at their destination on freakin' flight following?! It's hard to believe this level of incompetence and uncontrolled complacency is even possible. Tragic.
As a retired airline pilot, I have to say I have never seen such confusion and total lack of profiency in both the operation of the avionics and autopilot and the basic flying of the aircraft. I’d love to know where these guys got their training or lack thereof.
I think many are wondering the same question. Somewhere, someone knows where the pilot training occurred. I think a lot of the training info was knowingly tossed out the window for this flight. The final NTSB report will be interesting!
So this pilot: 1) didn’t use procedures, ever. 2) Didn’t know how to work the airplane 3) didn’t take sound recommendations from the student copilot 4) didn’t question or think critically about alarming conditions 5) was horribly unprofessional in cockpit communications 6) didn’t have the humility to ask for help 7) apparently routinely flew with degraded situational awareness (I hate when this happens, like it’s normal sometimes) 8) was either scared, or unable To hand fly the plane, and thus resorted to chaos when autopilot wouldn’t behave 9) had no concept of owning a situation, putting a plane in a safe place and figuring out a plan 10) created a toxic and negative cockpit environment by constantly cursing and being dramatic about small problems 11) wasn’t familiar with stall recovery I might be missing some. A lot of these are really easy to empathize with and see yourself making the same mistakes under the right circumstances, but this guy didn’t have any business operating an R/C Airplane, let alone a complex high performance aircraft.
For a start. All Route Data Entry is completed BEFORE Engine Start. Secondly, you absolutely NEVER, Ever attempt to go flying with a continuous Master Caution or cockpit Warning. It’s there for a reason. I’d have just shut down and gone and got Engineering to come and look at it!
I absolutely do not wish to make light of this tragic event but can anyone imagine an old grainy black-and-white cockpit with Stan and Ollie at the controls speaking the entire CVR transcript (without swearing) from this accident. 'Another fine mess!'.
If you can't properly OPERATE the AUTOMATION in modern High Preformance Aircraft you don.t belong in the Left or Right seat. instructor to pilot (Fly the ##### airplane) Stop ######## with the (Radio/Vor/Nav/ect.) just Fly the ##### airplane. How many times did I hear that?
I am addicted to Air Crash docco's. This (on the face of it at least) is easily the most insane crash scenario I have ever heard of. Reading comments from @ThatBobGuy850 (Thankyou - great narrative) The pilot had cancer and was taking oxycodone (he said it on CVR) and told his Dr the day prior he had pain in his leg, hip and back. Why did he think he was medically to fly in that state and at 67 years of age. I doubt he would have passed any medical assessment to fly. His son was the co-pilot but with only 20 hrs student flying time; the aircraft was complex, there was restricted airspace enroute; no fly plan was lodged. The master alarm sounds as soon as they start the aircraft; Instead of shutting the aircraft down, they shut the master alarm off undiagnosed!! Once airborne from outset they could not enter a flight plan and this ongoing failure preoccupied them throughout the flight. Why didn't they just declare emergency and allow Flt Control to direct them down?. There was no hope for the poor flight crew and passengers. It will be very interesting to hear what the NTSB final report says.
Thanks so much for taking the time to write a thoughtful view of the incident! This type of video certainly helps the channel grow! As you elude to, the pilot may have been in severe pain and certainly affecting his thought and problem solving ability far more than many realize. If so, he definitely should not have been in the left seat! I will be sure to do a follow up video when the final NTSB report is published. Cheers!
Ok, thank you for filling in the details that I thought was missing. There is no way that even a pilot of even moderate skill on the PC12 could have performed so poorly. Selecting the correct waypoints on the approach is very easily achieved, but obviously the pain killing drugs prevented a competent performance.
While the pilot problems are definitely key, I have noticed no one has addressed the some other issues. 1. Restricted airspace along a busy flight corridor 2. Points for two different approaches that are similar enough to get confused with each other. 3. Restricted airspace overlying an instrument approach fix. While there is plenty the pilot could have done to prevent his problems, could the elimination of one or more of the problems no one is talking about been the difference between a really bad flight and those deaths?
Thanks for your comments! As they say, aviation accidents occur from a compounding series of events. Perhaps one problem could have made the difference as you elude too. Blue skies!
Yes, the first video I made was based on the FlightAware ADS-B timestamps and were 5 hours earlier than the transcript report. I tried hard to sort out the difference with no luck and stuck with the published transcript to avoid confusion for this video.
The autopilot disconnect not muting was indicative of an issue too. Had that happen when the autopikot goofed on the NG and had to turn off the audible alarm behind pilot seat. You cannot begine to think reasonably with that thing wailing in your headset! Prayers for all aboard and their family.
This brings me back to my IT days - when folks would do absolutely no work to learn the tools they needed for their job, and then blame the tool. These pilots were trying to figure out how to fly their plane after it took off.
I kept wondering what the hell the co-pilot (-2) was doing. Turns out there was no co-pilot. The person in the right seat was a student pilot, and the pilot's own son. Sad to hear he kept saying "Dad" on the way down. Also, if a cockpit recording of TNFlyGirl is found, I think it will be a lot like this one. Trying to get the avionics to fly you out of a bad situation. All the way to the ground.
I am 60 yrs old. First time my children introduced me to Call of Duty the script could have read like this. A clueless fumbling about with IT I did not understand and so I got killed. Should have ignored all the blinking lights and just used my military training from way back.
I agree the flight plan should have been entered prior to departure. We don't know the expirience or ratings of pilot(s) or recency in instrument flight. They were not qualified for these circumstances. RIP
The pilot was actually over-qualified, with many licenses and ratings, but his son in the right seat, had a mere 20 hours. I wonder about the weight and balance with 8 full-sized passengers (one of them definitely obese) and baggage.
@@lindaschad9734 Good point. There are a few comments at the beginning of the transcript that reference weights being entered into the system. Certainly by no means was an accurate weight and balance completed (from the transcript remarks) given the rushed exit from the airport. From the transcript: * means unintelligible word, ( ) means questionable word insertion cargo two hundred? yeah. fifteen hundred? err? yeah fifteen hundred. * * *(fuel) * **.
I don't understand why he was trying to force the autopilot to fly the plane so freakin hard?? Jesus, it was almost like he was having a massive brainfart for the whole flight! First rule is to "Fly" the plane?
Yes, very difficult to understand his fixation on the autopilot! Even to last few seconds, constantly trying to engage the AP …. a main contributor to the tragic outcome!
I used to drive public transportation (buses) and I took myself out of service due to illness/fatigue several times over the years. I wasn’t willing to risk public safety by operating a vehicle on the ground. I can’t understand why this flight crew ever taxied without resolving the Master Alarm first.
Typically we see a pilot who can’t fly the airplane and then the autopilot disconnects and it’s over. This pilot was different. Not only did he not know how to fly the airplane, he also somehow didn’t know how to enter the flight plan and use the autopilot. Pretty remarkable.
It was amazing watching him trying to STILL fly the plane via autopilot after the plane was clearly in distress. That's not tunnel vision, that's pinpoint.
I am not technical at all but you really need to understand technical things to be a pilot. I would not make a good pilot. This is a reminder that all the boring, routine things like checklists and flight plans are actually very critical.
My father was a USN ATC in the late 60s early 70s out of South Weymouth NAS. THE base is gone now but those were good times., especially when the Blue Angels came to town in Skyhawks.
can you imagine the passengers in the back listening to the pilot screaming and cursing for minutes, as the plane's G forces jostle you around and the sun keeps coming in and out? absolute horror!
Those who gave this pilot an instrument rating should be ashamed of them selves. Clearly the pilot wasn't qualified for this. And to be honest I doubt he even should be qualified as a pilot. Period. To be this engaged in an autopilot configuration you clearly do not understand until you hit the water is mind boggling. With all these problems he should have gone hand flying VFR immediately. Communicating with ATC that he had problems with autopilot and landed.
Sigh, I hate seeing this. These pilots were so far behind the aircraft, it is unacceptable that this crew took the aircraft up. You fly like you train, and these two obviously had poor training. Fly the fucking plane, aviate, navigate, communicate. Very sad.
Thanks for the visit! Have not heard that saying “you fly like you train”. Excellent and so true. A sad ending. If they had only aviated we would not be having this conversation. Blue skies!
From what I gather, the health condition of the PIC was not good. If your not on your game, even though you passed the last medical months back, you need to pull yourself aside.
What I've learned in life and death situations is, all the important decisions have been made long before the situations occur. Probably the only reason that I have lived so long.
I am amazed by these types of incidents. It's like the guys knew nothing about flying an aircraft. And the fact that they would ignore warnings while taxying and stuff, crazy.
I agree that it is more dignified. The NTSB try to be as cool and objective as possible, so avoid language that might be considered more emotional. They have been doing their job well for a long time. I am content to just let them do it their way.
What a senseless act that cost everyone’s life! No preflight briefing, checklist, waypoints not bugged into the computer until airborne, when lost did not ask ground for assistance/ vectors to avoid the restricted area, and again not asking for vectors when they couldn’t enter CIGOR waypoint! Pilots. It familiar with the aircraft instruments. Essentially the pilots murdered everyone on board with their gotta get there incompetent mentality.
Underestimated a short 20-30 minute flight. This is a perfect example of being "behind" before even takeoff. A quality Apex glass cockpit should be learned thoroughly in simulator.
Would a pilot of this make and model , please answer one question does this plane have a level button on the auto pilot. This video doesn't answer many questions. How many hous did the pilot have? Was he ifr current? How many hours in actual ifr? Well if you have the 4 or 5 mill to spend, you can buy yourself anything you want
Complete incompetence! This pilot, and it’s hard for me to even call him this was a complete ABORTION! 15 Million Dollar settlement was enough. This man killed these people.
I'm 59. I get frustrated with tech. "Why won't the printer talk to the computer?"... So I keep bashing the keys and swearing until it does... This is exactly what this guy was doing. He got focused on trying to force the tech to work instead of simply flying the plane straight and level. In reality, 67 year olds should not be flying high tech machines. They are out of their 1970's comfort zones of knobs, levers and switches.
BullShit. I'm 65 and currently flying BizJets loaded with modern avionics. My boss is 75 and probably one of the MOST qualified pilots I have ever flown with. We're both retired airline and have seen a LOT in our career and have had access to exceptional training. Please don't lump us in your "old guy" box.
I'm a flight enthusiast but certainly no pilot. In this situation can you not just get the plane to level flight, keep it there for a minute or two, and then re-assess everything? I must be missing something.
Tragic outcome of this flight had nothing to do with the decision to fly. Rather, had to do with an unfortunate chain of negative events that simply overwhelmed the pilot and the aircraft's ability to recover from them.
This was such a sad presentation, great and detailed to the max, but still sad. I watch knowing the outcome yet the buildup to the event i'm actually cheering them on, "oh good they've leveled out" and then the dag-on stall comes on again. UGH. I'm nowhere near a pilot and even I was asking "why don't they seem to know how to enter the waypoints?" Even I know that!!!
Whoever issued that pilot with a licence needs to be in jail. Should never have been at the controls, disgraceful how completely behind the machine he was from the get go.
Thanks for visiting! I'm sure many have wondered the same. Perhaps he did get adequate flight instruction, but through it all out the window. Very sad for the passengers on board. An easy lawsuit for sure. Cheers.
When he flew it up into a stall, the kid knew enough to tell him to push it down, meaning push the nose down to regain speed and get out of a stall condition. They'd been better off trying the whole thing without Mr. Expletive Dad at all. Mind-bogglingly bad pilotage.
That has to be the most shockingly incompetent cockpit clusterf*** I have ever come across. And I just assumed it was yet another amateur pilot with more money than brains, in over his head with his expensive toy. When I went to look for more information on this incident, I was totally floored to find out that this was a company plane and the person flying it was a commercial pilot who was hired to do so. I kept digging as I tried to wrap my head around the idea that a commercial pilot could be so damned incompetent and I wanted to see what his actual background was, I found that he had been a mechanic, then director of maintenance, and then a pilot for a charter company - and his former employer at that company said that he was one of his best pilots, the most experienced in that aircraft, and great in it. I find that description very difficult to reconcile with a person who is taxing to the runway without a flight plan and without any concern about a master caution alarm with unknown cause, and gets even worse from there. WTAF
I’m no pilot but the cockpit was a circus…. If I were a passenger I think the clowns in the front seats would have been a horrific sight more than the rapidly approaching surface of the ocean.
Few hours of Flight Training. Don't Stall the Airplane. #1 rule flying. He was not prepared and sounds like it was loaded to the Max. Center of Gravity issue or Flight Trim got away from him.
Pretty sure this was Honeywell Primus Apex with Trackball/tiny joystick and no touchscreens. Imo, he failed to maintain airspeed, being distracted entering waypoints, AP kicked off and left him way out of trim, he then failed to trim properly manually, which might have caused crazy alt gains. I doubt if AP will engage in crazy attitude or way out of trim. No offense. Great learning tool for pilots to speculate. Pilot was way behind and knew it thruout. Angry with himself, he simply never recovered his composure. Sad! Simply one of best learning experiences for newbies available. Thanks
Just another reason why the Swiss made Pilates and French made TBM should be considered by the FAA as aircraft necessary for type ratings. Anybody with a PPL can fly either of these aircraft yet they’re complexities are way beyond the original design of the basic PPL. I don’t think a type rating would have to be an annual recurrent as it is in a turbo fan,however every 36 months would certainly be appropriate on a recur basis. I know this comment ruffles a lot of feathers, because there are so many pilots that are completely confident, but then again, others slip through the cracks, as is obviously evident here, and in other situations. Rest in peace.
Thanks for this wonderful reply. You are the first to bring up this topic from more than 200 comments. So true about being beyond the basics of a PPL. I do a lot of flight simulation and flying the PC12 and TBM are way beyond training aircraft such as a C172! It is a whole different ballgame getting behind in a PC12 or a TBM especially given the airspeed. An annual recurrent for the pilot in this story would have certainly made the crack narrower and perhaps saved lives. Blue skies!
Just toss your pride in the back seat and declare an emergency. No more confusion, just follow the vectors and alt changes. No paperwork, just say help! I was a controller for over 40 yrs, pilots declaring does not piss anyone off. Pilots, when in doubt, declare, nothing happens except you are the number #1 focus and priority. The controller will ask a few questions so they're fully aware and then it's all about getting you down safely.
Love your synopsis! When it comes to life or death, definitely swallow your pride ASAP! I hope many pilots see your comments. Going to pin this to the top! Thanks again for the visit!
Too much navigate, not enough aviate. Such a tragic event. 😢
@@aztec0112 Thanks for watching! Yes, totally fixated on the navigation. More aviation and this video would not exist! Cheers!
I have had 2 heart attacks. Once when I went to the hospital when I was not having a heart attack, but having chest pains, the nurse asked me why I waited so long to go? "I feel stupid if its a false alarm". She laid right into me about foolish pride, and stressed that nobody would think twice about having a guy come in with chest pains. She then asked a couple of others for their opinion and they agreed with her. She got her point across. When you think you need help you definitely need help. And only a fool doesn't take it when its right there.
This is a TH-cam comment that can save lives and I hope as many pilots as possible read this. Thanks @royal9848
If only there had been a pilot on board, this disaster could have been averted.
This flight was doomed from engine start. Not a checklist within a million miles. No CIGAR. No pre-takeoff avionics configuration. No departure briefing. No line up check. No after takeoff or cruise checks. Almost lost it on takeoff. No approach brief (that goes without saying) Absolute disaster from the beginning. The pilot was so far behind the airplane, it’s a miracle he’s survived as long as he did. It’s so sad for the poor innocent people on board.
It was mostly kids on board his kids and others, and not only did he not do all that you mentioned he didn't diagnose the master caution before they took off this guy was a complete douche I mean you could just tell by all of the filthy language he was in way over his head in one of the most advanced general aviation aircraft in the world super powerful super fast that guy had no business anywhere near that airplane much less in the cockpit.
I disagree. A fully competent PILOT could have done everything wrong that you mentioned above and then finally held the damn thing straight and level, figured out his problem and saved the day. This guy was not a competent airman in any respect. No amount of "procedural correctness or briefings" could have saved his bacon. He was an accident waiting for a place to happen.
Not just a failure of competence, either. A failure of character. A pilot who takes seriously the safety of the lives on board does not treat flying like taking his subaru to the quick shop to get a bag of chips. This guy didn't care enough about his passengers to take the slightest precautions for them.
I cannot believe that they took off after not diagnosing a master alarm. Absolutely unforgivable.
They were 10 miles behind the airplane before they even took off.. Questionable piloting at best.
did they establish what that master alarm was for?
@@glassesstaplerI’m gonna guess the navigator system wasn’t working properly.
I have a PC12. It is a very complex plane and unbelievably beautiful to fly IF you have the proper training and hours in such a sophisticated machine. The fact that these guys are flying a complex plane, or ANY airplane is beyond shocking and a travesty! Whose airplane was it and HOW the hell were these clowns allowed in it? Poor passengers.
When you have lots of money you can do just about anything….even if you shouldn’t.
I have read a ton of CVR transcripts and accident reports over the years. This one is one of if not the worst I heave seen. This wasn’t a bad day this was just absolute incompetence, failure to plan, failure to level the wings and sort it out to live another day. RIP
The one thats comes closest to similarity I can think of is the Learjet that crash while trying to land at Teterboro in New Jersey in 2017.
And with kids on-board. This probably isnt analogous but when I drive other peoples kids I am always on my best behavior. Don't even want the appearance of liability with other peoples precious cargo.
How did these 2 get in the cockpit? How can we ensure this doesn’t happen to one of us while on vacationing in Martha’s Vineyard. The plane and disorientation thing reminds me of the JFK crash in 1999
@@Williamb612 life doesnt have a no accident option.
Thanks for visiting and commenting. If this was a script for a movie, many would call it fiction. Very unfortunate, especially in consideration of the younger passengers. Cheers!
I've been flying 28.5 years and what I witnessed in this transcript was beyond comprehension. I couldn't even call these two individuals in the cockpit pilots. They broke every rule in aviation and sounded like they were absolutely clueless. RIP to the 8 victims.
Thanks for watching and commenting! The more comments I read on this flight, the deeper this tragedy sinks in. “Beyond comprehension” will stand as one of the top descriptors!
I've never flown and I never will because of this right here. I don't know who's up there flying. Can someone please explain how they even managed to get their license and who ok'd these two to fly a plane they obviously wasn't qualified for. Innocent people had to die because of it. It's garbage
@@jacksams1011how did they get their license? They passed a knowledge test and a checkride. You could also pass this test with the proper amount of studying and instruction. Flying is not rocket science.
The pc12 was way out of their league obviously. They didn’t seem to have much flying experience, atleast in IFR and a complex turbo prop. Had they been in a 172 they might have made it. I feel awful for the passengers, these guys had a duty to get them home safely and failed.
They could have learned to program the nav in flight simulator.
They would probably be alive today with more training in type
But what explains how he got in a stall and couldn't recover?
@@vampiresforesl Seems like there was no visibility due to clouds - and was overloaded with trying to get Autopilot back online in order to save their bacon. Plus someone mentioned runaway trim.
They proceeded in spite of over 3 minutes of master caution without diagnosing that??? OMG. No hope.
Not many have commented on this point! This was first thing that raised my attention! Just so many problems as a result of get-there-itis!
These boys were way past declaring an emergency. They just needed to fly the airplane , wings level and 60% throttle should have done the trick. And if you need to navigate then ease the nose over to the Big W /270 degrees and land will soon appear. The pilot should stop talking and only fly with wings level and trim for zero clime or descent , 60% throttle. Old pilots were taught this when they were young pilots. Pilots who fly in bad weather are buried in sunshine.
Thanks for commenting! Very insightful, wise words!
Trying to reengage the autopilot again and again and again is foolish. Fly the plane and ask ATC for help. That's what they are there for.
Definitely! Way too much obsession with avionics and clearly not enough aviating!
sadly the one thing they couldnt do is fly the plane; the autopilot was the only one who could. this EXACT crash occurred to one coming back from florida. once the autopilot tripped off they were doomed.
Very sad to imagine the confusion and frustration they were experiencing. Thank you for putting this together. It will be interesting to see what the NTSB comes back with.
Thank you for visiting and commenting! Recover of the voice data certainly conveys the atmosphere and mood of the pilots. So unfortunate for things to snowball out of control. Blue skies!
Spatial disorientation most likely.
@@piper0428 I bet yes, and totally out of studies about the PANEL and AVIONICS
@@pedroisctube Hard to believe, but the transcript is very revealing about the level of proficiency!
@@piper0428 You clearly dont know what spatial disorientation is. This is just death by 1,000 cuts.
Wow I can't believe they were so unprepared in this advanced aircraft. They were behind the plane since takeoff. RIP for all who died.
Thanks for watching! Unprepared would certainly be an accurate word that summarizes the flight! Cheers!
Sad, but yeah.
Trouble started on the ground. Should have input flight plan before takeoff.
@@jonasbaine3538 Yes, but things changes, procedures STAR or IAC change in flight, destination, weather, but seemssssssssssssssssssssss, just say, seeems, that they do not dknow wtf were doing inside that thing.
@@pedroisctube That is what is so astonishing and revealing about the transcript. Simple 2 waypoint flight between airports and it was just a disaster ... almost like the avionics were not working properly. Almost like they were new to the FMS!
Some people mentally are just not capable of being a pilot. I am astonished this pilot ever managed to pass the written portion of the test. I cannot see anything he did that was even merely adequate. The outcome is not surprising.
There are a lot of things that can affect our performance and behavior. We, the armchair quarterbacks, cannot understand how someone could be checked out in a sophisticated airplane like the Pilatus and *not* know what a particular warning horn was, nor how to remedy it. Furthermore, we cannot understand why he would not have entered even a basic VFR flight plan into the FMS, knowing (as he surely did) that there was special-use airspace along his route of flight. It's puzzling - how could a supposedly-competent pilot make these errors? It is very clear that the PIC did little-to-no flight planning. Seems like they just got to the airport, loaded up, jumped in and went.
Clearly, this PIC (the father) was sick. He mentioned that he had a lot of back pain - so much that he was taking oxycodone (which he even admitted on the CVR). The day prior to the flight, he reported to his regular doctor that he still had pain in his hip, leg and back. He had told his oncologist (cancer doctor) that the back pain was from "breaking concrete." The guy was 67 years old and 221 pounds, so...maybe he was out swinging a sledgehammer...maybe not. PLUS! He became positive for COVID-19 just the month prior to the accident. From the coughing we hear (read) on the CVR transcript, he was still suffering from the effects of it. Maybe he had a worse case than he was admitting? The frequent frustrated exhalations on the CVR make me think he was expending quite a lot of energy just managing his pain, and that was probably diverting his attention away from the task at hand. He sounds really distracted. He initially didn't want to curse in front of his (adult) son, but as things get worse and worse and his frustration increases, he lets the F-bombs and other curse words fly. Man, I've been there! Thankfully, just not in the cockpit of a big plane with a bunch of passengers whose lives depend on me.
His son, only a 20-hour student pilot but acting as "copilot" for this trip was evidently not all that familiar with how the FMS worked, especially when it came to entering flight plans. Sometimes unqualified copilots can be more of a hindrance than a help. The PIC ends up having to his own job AND monitor the other guy, making sure he does the right things. It actually 'increases' the workload instead of decreasing it.
I'm no accident investigator, but I believe that this pilot was impaired in some way that compromised his ability to manage what should have been a short, simple flight. Was it the back pain? Was it the oxycodone? Was it the COVID? Was it something else? According to the NTSB, they never recovered his body, so we'll probably never find out. But if ever there was a pilot who probably should have grounded himself until his COVID and other pain issues were resolved, it was him. Sad.
Wow! Great “Cole’s Notes” version. It will be interesting to see how much emphasis is placed on the pilot’s health when the final NTSB report is published. True about the son weighing in on the workload also … just adding to the frustration level! Thanks again for your thorough insight!
If you're taking hydrocodone fairly regularly, with me I didn't notice any effects. But pain, that can affect everything! Hip pain sitting will make you wish you were dead.
Only 20 hours??? These fellas should have NEVER gotten into that cockpit. And that boy should have been in a 150. The Pilatus is a VERY high performance turboprop airplane. It's an easy plane to fly but very hard to understand if you're a new pilot. And impossible to understand with only 20 hours of experience. There needed to be an adult around that day to keep them on the ground. RIP to all!!!
Even an armchair quarterback has enough common sense to see this pilot was totally out of his league and killed a bunch of people in a working aircraft needlessly.
@@chrislaswell5572It can be good experience for a student depending on how much the student does. I have a chief pilot at my flight school who will right seat an instrument student, but you have to be ready for it and understand the responsibility of it.
They were behind the aircraft even before takeoff. Who in their right mind ignores a master caution while still pressing on. ?
And as a pilot, you know immediately when you are behind. Depending on the issue, it can put you in a very uneasy state that only complicates future progress in the flight. Definitely very sad.
@@TheFlightLevel Well stated and very true. As a retired pilot myself.
I'm not a pilot, but if my brake light came on in my car, I wouldn't plan on driving it a few 100 miles. This is just unbelievable.
Thanks for the video. May I make a suggestion? Your information is good. Perhaps you could allow your pages to remain in place, especially those with long commentary, a bit longer. I consider myself a good reader, yet there was insuffecient time to read the print at a moderate pace, before the next frame.
I look forward to more of your work.
Thanks for watching. Your comments are appreciated! Will add a few extra seconds for the longer commentary sections for future videos of this format. Cheers!
Left click mouse activates pause.
@@johnmclean6498 Thanks for the response. I use the phone almost exclusively, as I am sure some real pilots do when on the road, on break. Being that 90% of YT users are on their phone devices, and I'm not sure about the iPhone, however Android is a pain for pausing and rewind (I do it constantly). Then there is the small text, which I can magnify, but YT app touchscreen commands are quite odd and clunky. If you miss the right touch spot by a millimeter, another unintended feature is activated. I put up with all of that without complaint. I'm sure many viewers are content with a synopsis of events, and we know anything over 12 minutes rarely gets views.
I watch over 20 hours a week of YT, and quite a few aviation channels. I want this newer channel to get maximum views. My thought was if I share things the channel owner may run into growing the channel, it may be good for him , too.
It's like a convenience store here in the U.S. I you don't carry cigarettes, beer, gas, and lottery tickets, then there is no need to hire help any time soon. Best wishes my friend!
I would rather the screens not take too long. If I need more time I simply hit pause and take a as long as I want. Going to slow is very frustrating since it isn't as easy, especially on my phone, to make precise movements to the next screen. Waiting around until everyone in the class catches up is tiresome.
@@TexasVernon Copy that! Will take everything into consideration for the next video! Cheers!
You did an amazing job putting this video together. It is artfully done, and absolutely horrifying. thanks!
Thank you! Much appreciated! I will include some narration in the next aviation accident video. Cheers!
Just found your channel. Love it. Subscribed ASAP!
My one brush with a close call was the summer of 1989 July. I was 16 and flying back home to South Dakota from Massachusetts. I decided to stay 1 week longer and I am glad I did. My flight would have been the United Airlines Sioux City flight 232 that crashed on the runway and killed 117 people. There's video footage of it.
On our way we had to stop on the tarmac at Sioux City Airport and we saw the devastation first hand. Everything was all black and very unsettling. Especially thinking that I could have been one of those poor passengers just a week ago. I was a nervous wreck the short way home. That's something you'll never get to see usually or experience. All these years later and it still haunts me. I give mad respect for any pilot that endures this day by day. Hats off to you!
I worked for a jetliner company for 20 years, as an acoustics guy, I helped playback voice recorder data recovered from crashes involving our aircraft. Its a sad, solemn thing to listen to a person's last words. I never got accustomed to it.
They must’ve had a lot of crashes to justify employing you as an acoustics technician.
@@Gus1966-c9oI was dedicated to a research and development lab. Crash investigation was only one of our abilities. I worked for Boeing.
In 1978, my ancient, Korean War pilot & CFI hammered "Aviate-Navigate-Communicate" in that order. Years later, in USAF UPT we were taught: "1. Maintain Aircraft Control, 2. Analyze the Situation, 3. Take Proper Action..." how in the heck any rated pilot can take a perfectly flyable aircraft with 4300' of altitude; then stall and crash it should be beyond comprehension. Accidents involving seemingly controllable aircraft with ample altitude is deeply concerning. It raises crucial questions about the effectiveness of current training, pilots' basic understanding of systems and the potential presence of systemic factors contributing to these tragedies. With the current push to rush new pilots through the system to fill open airline flight decks, we must collectively examine these events with a critical and objective lens to ensure the future safety of our skies.
Everyone with a competent instructor learns- aviate, navigate, communicate.
This pilot did none of those.
Don't know how these two guys ever got their pilot licenses and their type rating. They didn't know a single thing about the aircraft they were flying and its navigation systems. It actually seemed they didn't even know the basics of aircraft flight.
There is not a type rating for that aircraft.
@@larrysturm502 But there are insurance requirements. Somebody signed off on him.
1st rule
Fly the plane
2nd rule
Fly the plane
I think you get the plan
It's absolutely unbelievable how this situation developed into a crash... May they all rest in peace.
Couldn't agree more. Parts of this story are really hard to comprehend! Thanks for dropping by and commenting!
Oh, I think anyone can see how there was no other outcome possible but a crash. These guys were clueless. They were well into the criminal range. They weren't even careless and wreckless yet; they never got that far. They were clueless and witless. Laurel and Hardy. They never should have been allowed to drive to an airport to even LOOK at the planes.
@@megadavis5377 I know they didn't win any airmanship awards, based on the transcript. But, there is a possibility the plane had issues that were undetectable before the flight.
It was due to the total and utter incompetence of the crew! These idiots shouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near an aeroplane, let alone be allowed to fly one!!
Flying a plane is not like getting in your car, starting it, and following Apple Maps through a complicated city of roads. As a truck driver, I do my pre trip inspection, do the required paperwork, plan my route, drive, check mirrors, surrounds, make sure gauge’s are within normal range, drive repeat. None of that stuff was followed here for flight.
I do not think there were any PILOTS in the plane that day, sad😢.
Wow, so sad. I don't know the PIC's experience but given that he was in the PC-12 I suspect it was significant. Nothing about this flight went well. There seemed to be no preparation and no competence with the avionics. Basic IFR principles weren't followed as this wasn't flown on an instrument flight plan, only flight following. I get the impression that the pilot didn't even have a plan of where they were going except for "just follow the coast". This shouldn't be used to blast the pour souls that were lost that day but a warning for the rest of us. Everything has to be set before launching otherwise you are starting the flight behind the airplane. Know your avionics cold, never expect the person you are flying with to be able to do anything for you (great if they can help but you must know everything about the plane). If W&B was ignored, when they got slow he may not have been able to push the nose down and his attempt to add power only lead to an accelerated stall. In potentially IFR conditions along route (even if VFR on top) just file a flight plan, it's not any more work and far safer. Lastly, while not "legal" for IFR flight, if they just had some redundancy in the cockpit like Foreflight they likely wouldn't have lost situational awareness that exacerbated their already stressed response to not being able to program their avionics. RIP
Thanks for your wonderful commentary. Points well taken and potentially life saving reminders for all pilots. I firmly believe that taking a few minutes before liftoff to enter 2 waypoints between the departure and landing airports and this video would not exist. Blue skies!
I don’t usually go for videos that are text based, but this one was interesting. I’m Usually doing something else and listening more than watching. One of the things that kept me going was the wonderful music bed. Great choices.
@@NadaSurfinAB Thanks! I do take the time to match and select the best music possible! Cheers!
Yeah, and can you believe they launched in a PC12 with 900 ft. ceilings enroute/at their destination on freakin' flight following?! It's hard to believe this level of incompetence and uncontrolled complacency is even possible. Tragic.
As a retired airline pilot, I have to say I have never seen such confusion and total lack of profiency in both the operation of the avionics and autopilot and the basic flying of the aircraft. I’d love to know where these guys got their training or lack thereof.
I think many are wondering the same question. Somewhere, someone knows where the pilot training occurred. I think a lot of the training info was knowingly tossed out the window for this flight. The final NTSB report will be interesting!
Just so you know, # means expletive language.
😄
It’s incredible to me how anybody could get a license to fly an airplane and do such a horrendous job at staying in the air. Wow
So this pilot:
1) didn’t use procedures, ever.
2) Didn’t know how to work the airplane
3) didn’t take sound recommendations from the student copilot
4) didn’t question or think critically about alarming conditions
5) was horribly unprofessional in cockpit communications
6) didn’t have the humility to ask for help
7) apparently routinely flew with degraded situational awareness (I hate when this happens, like it’s normal sometimes)
8) was either scared, or unable
To hand fly the plane, and thus resorted to chaos when autopilot wouldn’t behave
9) had no concept of owning a situation, putting a plane in a safe place and figuring out a plan
10) created a toxic and negative cockpit environment by constantly cursing and being dramatic about small problems
11) wasn’t familiar with stall recovery
I might be missing some. A lot of these are really easy to empathize with and see yourself making the same mistakes under the right circumstances, but this guy didn’t have any business operating an R/C Airplane, let alone a complex high performance aircraft.
And yet his former employer at a charter company said he was one of his best pilots, the most experienced in that model plane, and was brilliant in it
For a start. All Route Data Entry is completed BEFORE Engine Start. Secondly, you absolutely NEVER, Ever attempt to go flying with a continuous Master Caution or cockpit Warning. It’s there for a reason. I’d have just shut down and gone and got Engineering to come and look at it!
I absolutely do not wish to make light of this tragic event but can anyone imagine an old grainy black-and-white cockpit with Stan and Ollie at the controls speaking the entire CVR transcript (without swearing) from this accident. 'Another fine mess!'.
If you can't properly OPERATE the AUTOMATION in modern High Preformance Aircraft you don.t belong in the Left or Right seat. instructor to pilot (Fly the ##### airplane) Stop ######## with the (Radio/Vor/Nav/ect.) just Fly the ##### airplane. How many times did I hear that?
what does an ect nav aid do?
It appears they never even seen a picture of the aircraft they were flying, much less flying it!
Sadly, this flight is a hard one to swallow. Really makes you wonder! Cheers!
I am addicted to Air Crash docco's. This (on the face of it at least) is easily the most insane crash scenario I have ever heard of. Reading comments from @ThatBobGuy850 (Thankyou - great narrative) The pilot had cancer and was taking oxycodone (he said it on CVR) and told his Dr the day prior he had pain in his leg, hip and back. Why did he think he was medically to fly in that state and at 67 years of age. I doubt he would have passed any medical assessment to fly. His son was the co-pilot but with only 20 hrs student flying time; the aircraft was complex, there was restricted airspace enroute; no fly plan was lodged. The master alarm sounds as soon as they start the aircraft; Instead of shutting the aircraft down, they shut the master alarm off undiagnosed!! Once airborne from outset they could not enter a flight plan and this ongoing failure preoccupied them throughout the flight. Why didn't they just declare emergency and allow Flt Control to direct them down?. There was no hope for the poor flight crew and passengers. It will be very interesting to hear what the NTSB final report says.
Thanks so much for taking the time to write a thoughtful view of the incident! This type of video certainly helps the channel grow! As you elude to, the pilot may have been in severe pain and certainly affecting his thought and problem solving ability far more than many realize. If so, he definitely should not have been in the left seat! I will be sure to do a follow up video when the final NTSB report is published. Cheers!
Ok, thank you for filling in the details that I thought was missing. There is no way that even a pilot of even moderate skill on the PC12 could have performed so poorly. Selecting the correct waypoints on the approach is very easily achieved, but obviously the pain killing drugs prevented a competent performance.
Final NTSB report video here th-cam.com/video/r_lIrbw9R78/w-d-xo.html
While the pilot problems are definitely key, I have noticed no one has addressed the some other issues.
1. Restricted airspace along a busy flight corridor
2. Points for two different approaches that are similar enough to get confused with each other.
3. Restricted airspace overlying an instrument approach fix.
While there is plenty the pilot could have done to prevent his problems, could the elimination of one or more of the problems no one is talking about been the difference between a really bad flight and those deaths?
Thanks for your comments! As they say, aviation accidents occur from a compounding series of events. Perhaps one problem could have made the difference as you elude too. Blue skies!
Those 2 fixes with like names was just nuts. Everything about an apc has to be approved, surprised no one commented.
Not sure how the times ended up wrong the cockpit voice recorder time stamps, the plane crashed about 2:01pm.
Yes, the first video I made was based on the FlightAware ADS-B timestamps and were 5 hours earlier than the transcript report. I tried hard to sort out the difference with no luck and stuck with the published transcript to avoid confusion for this video.
@@TheFlightLevel US Eastern Standard Time is 5 hours ahead of GMT/UTC which is likely the difference in times seen.
@@FasterLower Good one! Cheers!
The autopilot disconnect not muting was indicative of an issue too. Had that happen when the autopikot goofed on the NG and had to turn off the audible alarm behind pilot seat. You cannot begine to think reasonably with that thing wailing in your headset! Prayers for all aboard and their family.
This brings me back to my IT days - when folks would do absolutely no work to learn the tools they needed for their job, and then blame the tool. These pilots were trying to figure out how to fly their plane after it took off.
Having a nice moving map onboard showing where they were all the time, they forgot to just hand fly it
Yes, definitely too much obsession with the avionics. Hand flying and we would not have this video.
Wow, that was incredibly made. The music, the presentation with the flight sim, it was so engaging. Outstanding work, SUBSCRIBED AND HOPING FOR MORE!
Copy that! Much appreciated! Spend a lot of time editing these videos. Definitely more videos of the same type planned! Thanks again!
I kept wondering what the hell the co-pilot (-2) was doing. Turns out there was no co-pilot. The person in the right seat was a student pilot, and the pilot's own son. Sad to hear he kept saying "Dad" on the way down. Also, if a cockpit recording of TNFlyGirl is found, I think it will be a lot like this one. Trying to get the avionics to fly you out of a bad situation. All the way to the ground.
Yes - utter tragedy but no-one was actually FLYING the darn machine.
What aircraft was this?
This was a PC-12 aircraft.
@@TheFlightLevel oh ok
In all my years of flying I have never witnessed such incompetence and arrogance.
I am 60 yrs old. First time my children introduced me to Call of Duty the script could have read like this. A clueless fumbling about with IT I did not understand and so I got killed. Should have ignored all the blinking lights and just used my military training from way back.
Moral of this story-don't fly a plane if you don't know what you're doing.
I agree the flight plan should have been entered prior to departure. We don't know the expirience or ratings of pilot(s) or recency in instrument flight. They were not qualified for these circumstances. RIP
The pilot was actually over-qualified, with many licenses and ratings, but his son in the right seat, had a mere 20 hours. I wonder about the weight and balance with 8 full-sized passengers (one of them definitely obese) and baggage.
@@lindaschad9734 Good point. There are a few comments at the beginning of the transcript that reference weights being entered into the system. Certainly by no means was an accurate weight and balance completed (from the transcript remarks) given the rushed exit from the airport. From the transcript: * means unintelligible word, ( ) means questionable word insertion
cargo two hundred?
yeah.
fifteen hundred?
err?
yeah fifteen hundred.
* * *(fuel) * **.
They were bind this aircraft a full week before this flight. Incredible. I've got to see the NTSB report. Those poor people.
Someone had an IFR panic attack...
I don't understand why he was trying to force the autopilot to fly the plane so freakin hard?? Jesus, it was almost like he was having a massive brainfart for the whole flight! First rule is to "Fly" the plane?
Yes, very difficult to understand his fixation on the autopilot! Even to last few seconds, constantly trying to engage the AP …. a main contributor to the tragic outcome!
I used to drive public transportation (buses) and I took myself out of service due to illness/fatigue several times over the years. I wasn’t willing to risk public safety by operating a vehicle on the ground. I can’t understand why this flight crew ever taxied without resolving the Master Alarm first.
Fabulous comment and oh so relevant to this video. If they had done the right thing, we would not be having this conversation.
My dad-who’s a retired airline pilot- “Getthereitis”. That has killed a lot of people.
@@odinsson204 So true! Imagine master alarms ringing for 3 minutes and still continuing to taxi for takeoff!
Typically we see a pilot who can’t fly the airplane and then the autopilot disconnects and it’s over. This pilot was different. Not only did he not know how to fly the airplane, he also somehow didn’t know how to enter the flight plan and use the autopilot. Pretty remarkable.
It was amazing watching him trying to STILL fly the plane via autopilot after the plane was clearly in distress. That's not tunnel vision, that's pinpoint.
I am not technical at all but you really need to understand technical things to be a pilot. I would not make a good pilot. This is a reminder that all the boring, routine things like checklists and flight plans are actually very critical.
My father was a USN ATC in the late 60s early 70s out of South Weymouth NAS. THE base is gone now but those were good times., especially when the Blue Angels came to town in Skyhawks.
can you imagine the passengers in the back listening to the pilot screaming and cursing for minutes, as the plane's G forces jostle you around and the sun keeps coming in and out? absolute horror!
Those who gave this pilot an instrument rating should be ashamed of them selves. Clearly the pilot wasn't qualified for this. And to be honest I doubt he even should be qualified as a pilot. Period. To be this engaged in an autopilot configuration you clearly do not understand until you hit the water is mind boggling. With all these problems he should have gone hand flying VFR immediately. Communicating with ATC that he had problems with autopilot and landed.
Certainly makes you wonder! True .... being so fixated on the autopilot, rather than taking manual control early on could have made a big difference.
He was a commercial pilot
Defying gravity is for the well-prepared and the highly-skilled.
Rawls arrogance killed 7 people and destroyed a very good aircraft.
It seems like they didn't have any proper navigation plan so depending on the equipment and weren't flying the plane
The wrong people in the wrong plane at the wrong time .
Sigh, I hate seeing this. These pilots were so far behind the aircraft, it is unacceptable that this crew took the aircraft up. You fly like you train, and these two obviously had poor training. Fly the fucking plane, aviate, navigate, communicate. Very sad.
Thanks for the visit! Have not heard that saying “you fly like you train”. Excellent and so true. A sad ending. If they had only aviated we would not be having this conversation. Blue skies!
@@TheFlightLevel thank you. I'm a retired Navy pilot, comes from you fight like you train, same goes with flying.
From what I gather, the health condition of the PIC was not good. If your not on your game, even though you passed the last medical months back, you need to pull yourself aside.
Rest Easy Crew and Passengers. One certainty is our Coast Guard will always be ready for a search and rescue call.
I found myself almost screaming "turn off the damn autopilot and fly the freakin airplane!!!"
What I've learned in life and death situations is, all the important decisions have been made long before the situations occur. Probably the only reason that I have lived so long.
As one of many pilots watching this I'm sure, I can only say is "WTF OVER?" Its hard to believe these 2 yahoo's were able to get the turbine started.
We all come with a number, so upon entering any ode of Transportation Check everyones NUMBER see they aren't the same.
I am amazed by these types of incidents. It's like the guys knew nothing about flying an aircraft. And the fact that they would ignore warnings while taxying and stuff, crazy.
Why do the NTSB used the phrase "fatally injured" instead of died, or killed?
Hopefully others will chime in. I do not know why, but the phrase in my mind pays a notch of higher dignity for those who lost their lives.
I agree that it is more dignified. The NTSB try to be as cool and objective as possible, so avoid language that might be considered more emotional. They have been doing their job well for a long time. I am content to just let them do it their way.
the coast guard diving team only ever found partial remains of some of the victims. “fatally injured” is probably as specific as they could get.
Was this there first time in an airplane? Holy Christ
Wow ! This is soooo bad - These guys are so far over their heads . Just $$$$$ !
This flight certainly does redefine “over your head”. So tragic!
What a senseless act that cost everyone’s life! No preflight briefing, checklist, waypoints not bugged into the computer until airborne, when lost did not ask ground for assistance/ vectors to avoid the restricted area, and again not asking for vectors when they couldn’t enter CIGOR waypoint! Pilots. It familiar with the aircraft instruments. Essentially the pilots murdered everyone on board with their gotta get there incompetent mentality.
This is heartbreaking 😢
Underestimated a short 20-30 minute flight. This is a perfect example of being "behind" before even takeoff. A quality Apex glass cockpit should be learned thoroughly in simulator.
Would a pilot of this make and model , please answer one question does this plane have a level button on the auto pilot. This video doesn't answer many questions. How many hous did the pilot have? Was he ifr current? How many hours in actual ifr? Well if you have the 4 or 5 mill to spend, you can buy yourself anything you want
Complete incompetence! This pilot, and it’s hard for me to even call him this was a complete ABORTION!
15 Million Dollar settlement was enough. This man killed these people.
I'm 59. I get frustrated with tech. "Why won't the printer talk to the computer?"... So I keep bashing the keys and swearing until it does... This is exactly what this guy was doing. He got focused on trying to force the tech to work instead of simply flying the plane straight and level. In reality, 67 year olds should not be flying high tech machines. They are out of their 1970's comfort zones of knobs, levers and switches.
BullShit. I'm 65 and currently flying BizJets loaded with modern avionics. My boss is 75 and probably one of the MOST qualified pilots I have ever flown with. We're both retired airline and have seen a LOT in our career and have had access to exceptional training. Please don't lump us in your "old guy" box.
How did they pass a check ride. The airplane and its systems were completely unknown to them.
This is sarcasm, yes, but were these 2 guys actually licensed pilots? This flight was nothing but chaos and disaster from the get-go. R.I.P. guys.
I'm a flight enthusiast but certainly no pilot. In this situation can you not just get the plane to level flight, keep it there for a minute or two, and then re-assess everything? I must be missing something.
Been saying the since jfk jr. If they just called a qualified pilot. Could have saved them all.
What is fatally injured 🤔
The term used by the NTSB in a way to pay more dignity to those who lost their lives.
What does # mean in the transcript
Explicit language …. Swearing!
That’s flight data recorder not light data recorder
Tragic outcome of this flight had nothing to do with the decision to fly. Rather, had to do with an unfortunate chain of negative events that simply overwhelmed the pilot and the aircraft's ability to recover from them.
This was such a sad presentation, great and detailed to the max, but still sad. I watch knowing the outcome yet the buildup to the event i'm actually cheering them on, "oh good they've leveled out" and then the dag-on stall comes on again. UGH. I'm nowhere near a pilot and even I was asking "why don't they seem to know how to enter the waypoints?" Even I know that!!!
The kids in the back calling out "Dad" is gut wrenching
That's the pilots son sitting next to him.
Whoever issued that pilot with a licence needs to be in jail. Should never have been at the controls, disgraceful how completely behind the machine he was from the get go.
Thanks for visiting! I'm sure many have wondered the same. Perhaps he did get adequate flight instruction, but through it all out the window. Very sad for the passengers on board. An easy lawsuit for sure. Cheers.
When he flew it up into a stall, the kid knew enough to tell him to push it down, meaning push the nose down to regain speed and get out of a stall condition. They'd been better off trying the whole thing without Mr. Expletive Dad at all. Mind-bogglingly bad pilotage.
That has to be the most shockingly incompetent cockpit clusterf*** I have ever come across.
And I just assumed it was yet another amateur pilot with more money than brains, in over his head with his expensive toy. When I went to look for more information on this incident, I was totally floored to find out that this was a company plane and the person flying it was a commercial pilot who was hired to do so.
I kept digging as I tried to wrap my head around the idea that a commercial pilot could be so damned incompetent and I wanted to see what his actual background was, I found that he had been a mechanic, then director of maintenance, and then a pilot for a charter company - and his former employer at that company said that he was one of his best pilots, the most experienced in that aircraft, and great in it.
I find that description very difficult to reconcile with a person who is taxing to the runway without a flight plan and without any concern about a master caution alarm with unknown cause, and gets even worse from there. WTAF
I'm not a pilot. It boggles my mind how these two could be responsible for flying a plane
I’m no pilot but the cockpit was a circus…. If I were a passenger I think the clowns in the front seats would have been a horrific sight more than the rapidly approaching surface of the ocean.
The worst thing is two pilots with this level of incompetence took up family with them
Aviate, navigate, communicate! But the PIC said navigate, all the while he couldn’t even aviate!
Just because you can afford to be a pilot doesn't mean you should be🤷
Few hours of Flight Training. Don't Stall the Airplane. #1 rule flying. He was not prepared and sounds like it was loaded to the Max. Center of Gravity issue or Flight Trim got away from him.
Nice music choice, thanks.
Thanks for watching! Terrific that you enjoyed the music!
Just because one has the money to own/fly private does not make one qualified.
Rest in Pieces.
Pretty sure this was Honeywell Primus Apex with Trackball/tiny joystick and no touchscreens. Imo, he failed to maintain airspeed, being distracted entering waypoints, AP kicked off and left him way out of trim, he then failed to trim properly manually, which might have caused crazy alt gains. I doubt if AP will engage in crazy attitude or way out of trim. No offense. Great learning tool for pilots to speculate. Pilot was way behind and knew it thruout. Angry with himself, he simply never recovered his composure. Sad! Simply one of best learning experiences for newbies available. Thanks
Just another reason why the Swiss made Pilates and French made TBM should be considered by the FAA as aircraft necessary for type ratings. Anybody with a PPL can fly either of these aircraft yet they’re complexities are way beyond the original design of the basic PPL. I don’t think a type rating would have to be an annual recurrent as it is in a turbo fan,however every 36 months would certainly be appropriate on a recur basis. I know this comment ruffles a lot of feathers, because there are so many pilots that are completely confident, but then again, others slip through the cracks, as is obviously evident here, and in other situations. Rest in peace.
Thanks for this wonderful reply. You are the first to bring up this topic from more than 200 comments. So true about being beyond the basics of a PPL. I do a lot of flight simulation and flying the PC12 and TBM are way beyond training aircraft such as a C172! It is a whole different ballgame getting behind in a PC12 or a TBM especially given the airspeed. An annual recurrent for the pilot in this story would have certainly made the crack narrower and perhaps saved lives. Blue skies!