Equal length V8 headers with a twist
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- This is an equal length pairing of the inner cylinders and outer cylinders on each side. Each header has two 2.25" collectors and one 3" collector. There was also a triple x-pipe behind it , in the video clip, if I remember correctly.
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1993 E36 w/ '89 Ford 5.0L , ebay aluminum heads , TFS Stage 3 cam , + valvetrain stuff , 330whp
![เปิดบ้าน พี่ตูน Bodyslam หลังใหม่คนแรก ที่ภูเก็ต l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/flFwcmyDQSk/mqdefault.jpg)
These are configured almost just like a nascar cup car header. They use tri y 4-2-1 collectors with equal ish length primaries. The superspeedway cars of 96-07 used x pipes with a very unique sound I think you’d be fascinated by
Oh hey , just saw this comment, lol. Yeah , there's some cool nascar exhaust stuff for sure.... also Australian supercar's Larry Perkins did some cool exhaust stuff" th-cam.com/video/OiKJX94E4v4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=P6qdYwij3NRzBckE
Could you maybe make a compilation clip comparing all of the exhaust designs? I'm a big fan of your work; it's cool to see someone experimenting like this. I want to eventually put some killer setup like the super loud one you had on my Buick (current sound with a cracked manifold on my channel lmao), and it's interesting to hear how the sound changes.
Not a bad idea.
Man wish you were selling E36 5.0 exhaust set ups! This one sounds good but personally your older set up was my favorite.
Which one was that, the crossover one?
@@NickKautz haha true you have had quite a few set ups. I think it was the 180s plus the single x pipe. I will go back and look.
Thanks for posting this - Been looking to do something similar for a car in the same race series... will post once (if) done. Cheers!
This guy in sweden? has used this design for his e36 ls1 racer that he's building. Actually he copied my more recent LS version of these headers, they're in one my last few videos. It's a simpler design than these , easier to make. The motor wasn't ready to rev much yet , but here's the video he sent me: th-cam.com/video/zlnom05o7U8/w-d-xo.html
@@NickKautz will take a look - thanks!
Its like a musical instrument. Look at a trombone. You make the pipe longer and it gets deeper. You make it shorter and it gets higher. If the note peak spacing lines up with the the valve events and the repetition of events in a significant way the note will keep rining onto thr next event and get louder. Putting steps in pipes or creating branches creats reflection points for additional sympathetic vibrations. Shorter is higher pitch and if you can make the lengths harmonic it will have qualities of a musical chord and wont lose much energy. Higher order harmonics will line up with thr engine more often and lower order (long pipes) will have a small number of peaks in the power curve and if the upper peak isn't at a high enough spead it can truncate rpm range and power because you cannot rev the engine high enough to find the next peak. Because of this truncated power curve long headers are often associated with torque and short with hp but if thr length is long but not too long it can possibly make as much power as a short header with a midrange bump and a wide torque plateau. But the shorter pipe version might build power more smoothly and rev beyond the power peak with less trouble.
I'd love to see you work on a V10 engine at some point. There is a lot of potential with header design - I'm really curious as to what a 10 into 1 setup would sound like!
That would be fun. They are harder to come by , I think v12 is easier to get. Like one of these: th-cam.com/video/9zZcAJ-NEKo/w-d-xo.html
@@NickKautz truck v10 would probably be the easiest right?
I did get a v10 bmw M5 , currently rebuilding the engine. The factory headers are already equal length so I'll be messing with rest of the exhaust system. 10 into 1 is kind of out of the question in general since 8 into 1 on a front engine car looks like this: www.dropbox.com/s/eg854dnmz1w0a2z/1.jpg
Nick Kautz there's more of a problem there too because all of those V10s are odd-firing. There's really not much you can do about it at all.
@@NickKautz not even basically unlimited budget race cars would do that. That's only something a fabricator with an open checkbook would do. An equal length 10-2 with an x-pipe would sound similar enough with much less headache. Or a 10-2-1
U r one of the very few who put this much effort in there exhaust. I also recall you mentioning something about you changing ur engine when it goes with something else. I think it would be a crazy idea if u put a v12 in there along with crazy exhaust work. Cheap v12 like mercedes M120 (6.0 400hp stock used in Zonda) 1gzfe(5.0 about 300hp) Pretty decent v12 also cheap. Regarding the weight they weigh as much as a 2jz gte u can check am 100% sure of my info. Just wanted to share my thought cz it would be rad with ur exhaust work!!
I've been looking at v12's everyday. It's the m120 I want , but I would also jump on bmw n73 or s85 v10. It's hard to find just the motor , most have a car still attached to it. Did you come here from the Mercedes forum? mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=7797236#post7797236
@@NickKautz hello mate I have designed a new exhaust for an LS but I used a different concept.
It mainly aim at using 1 header for each bank and getting equal pulse and rotary fire pattern from each bank for significant torque gains.
Unfortunatly equal length exhaust dont even out the pulses on the crossplane crank american engines that is why having 2 equal length headers doesnt sound like 8-1 and an 8-1 does not benifit from suction unless a rotary fire pattern is followed and this gains 75lb.ft of torque on an offroad automatic transmission Ls 6.0.
If ur still experimenting with ur v8 e36 send me the firing order of ur engine and maybe ur email so i would design u the exhaust, send u some drawings and get ur opinion about it for ur engine and for the LS engine.
180 degree setup on a ford 289/302/4.6/5.4 all have the same firing order.to make the 180 degree headers actually work ,as follows. the left side of the engine. cylinders 2 and 3 tie into 5 and 8 .that's one header. cylinders 1 and 4 tie into 6 and 7 .that's the second header. each of those cylinders ,fire 180 degrees of each other . that's why the engine will sound like a flat plain crank v8,like a Ferrari .you get a lot of benefits ,like low and high scavenging effects .boots up low and high end power , way more than typical long tube headers .your setup if very close to the 180 degree headers , but obviously more compact. sounds like a de Tomaso pantera ,but not the 351 w .I love it
Your effectively making the headers a tri y set up, Carroll Shelby did it to take advantage of the 180’ header arrangement advantages with dual exhaust. Merging the two left and right banks give the sound of a true 180’ degree set up, but Shelby figured out that there was not much to be gained otherwise… Firing order with the tri Y pipes on a SBF 289-302 is specific to its design, in your case incorporating the the equal length with the the two latter y pipes past the primary header makes the noise your hearing 180’. The 65-66 Mustang Shelby’s tri Y headers was Shelby’s cheapest attempt, biggest bang for the buck, and make it fit deal…..
If you make a perfect set of exactly equal length headers to firing cylinder 1,3,5,7 and 2,4,6,8 this is firing order, not to be confused with cylinder number. You have to have a crossover for two pipes cylinders 3 and 6 on an LS. Firing order is 1,8,7,3 on the right side and 4,6,5,2 on the left side of the motor from the front. Right side is all odd fire except for cylinder #3 which fires as 8, left side is all even fire except cylinder #6 which fires as 5. It's funky and makes for a pre collector crossover so left header is cylinders 2,4,3,8 and left is cylinders 1,6,5,7 with 3 and 6 tubes swapping headers. Tricky to keep equal length. In some cases you may be able to tuck across under the oil pan. Then exhaust scavenging can get you greater than 100% volumetric efficiency. The draft of the scavenge actually is creating a vacuum on the intake during the cam overlap exhaust closing as intake starts to open. This gets intake velocity going before the piston even comes off tdc, then piston going down increases velocity of intake air, it can fill the cylinder beyond atmosphere pressure. Take a Gatorade bottle and blow a puff of air into it quickly. If you can cover it with your hand quick enough there is more pressure than outside of the bottle, same principle. It's not done on passenger cars due to cost and packaging constraints as you know well lol. Going into a big single, 3.5" plus, after will pull even more vacuum as the intake valve cracks open. Using a straight through muffler with perforated core and packing exactly like a street bike has the best flow for effect. That is exactly why the street bike 4 into 1 craze started in the 80s, bikes came with dual exhaust pipes into the 90s, they sounded silly compared to 4:1 and the sound matched performance. Listen to a ninja 600 with slip on silencer dual exhaust compared to a Yoshimura 4 into 1. With jetting necessary because it leaned out the bike, a 10-25% gain was not uncommon.
Did you see this one yet? th-cam.com/video/pG2TvSl8dRY/w-d-xo.html
Couldn't help but notice you're racing at Sonoma raceway...if you hail from the valley I would be extremely excited to come check out your shop sometime!
I'm in Hayward off Winton
I wonder if this would work for a 4.8L LS V-8 truck engine?
I originally wanted to do a 180° crossover under my car, I actually have a used set of bbk longtubes I might try this with. I’ll probably be the only Lincoln with exhaust anything like this lmfao
I’m curious how the sound would be if instead of 2-3 X pipes, rather one 3” single pipe? It’s interesting to me
Oh you didn’t know? Search up the dYNO of the LS7 8 into 1 Merge collector, making them alll Equal Length, sounds AMAZING
That's one of the first one's I watched. 8-1 is very difficult and space constricted. This one is good too, 8-1 LS7 VW passat: th-cam.com/video/evS1wE7KP-Q/w-d-xo.html
I'm really impressed with your exhaust work. I plan to build a junkyard 4.8LS,5.3LS,or 6.0LS. I also would like to use small twin turbos and then run the exhaust from the turbo exhaust on each side. Basically making a true dual exhaust setup with a single pipe from each side. I really like the 180° header setup or actually your custom setup that sounds like 180° header. I was just going to flip and cut the factory manifold and use as much of the manifold for plug access. However I would have no clue how to make it sound like a 180° header. A LS sounds okay on its own especially at higher rpms 6500rpm+. But a LS is very common. I would like it to sound like a supercar with 180° headers if at all possible. Could any of my ideas work, twin turbos, turbo back exhaust, flipped and cut manifold? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I saw that you're doing an LS swap next. I've been wanting to do something to get that 180 degree or 8-1 type sound without a nightmare of tubes on my LS swapped el camino. I started on a set of true equal length tri-y headers made from nascar LS series Kooks headers that I started on years ago & never finished. I may finish them up as is & try out with a triple x- pipe setup rather than a crazy over the engine 8 -4 -2 -1 setup running forwards I was thinking of. My tri-y's pair 1-5 & 3-7, 2-4 & 6-8. This splits the pulses @ 5& 3, then 3&5 apart , as opposed to yours @ 6&2 then 2&6.
True 180's pair 1&6, then 7&4 into 1, 8&5, then 2&3 into 1.They all pulse evenly, but what a fitting nightmare around or under the engine. Still may consider over the engine forwards & down with all sorts of heat shields & huge vents under my tall hood for ease of plumbing, but not sure if I could reject enough heat.
You may be done with something else LS based before I have time to fool with, so interested to see what you end up doing. Here's a link to a thread I was doing as a research project with a few other links on it.. Kinda a shortage of any good solid info. gbodyforum.com/threads/anyone-ever-hear-8-into-1-headers-in-person-or-know-info-about.70740/page-6.
Also up for consideration is just true equal length long tube headers, along with 1 to 3 x-pipes and possibly boom tubes and or spin tech type mufflers. A sterling martin nascar setup thought to be 180 headers was a dr gas x-pipe /boom tube setup. According to dr gas, when the sound changes, better scavenging is occurring.
That's dope. I'm working on the headers now , I'm doing the mysterious 4-2-1 from the "Best sounding exhaust setup so far" video. I'm not wrapping them around the steering rack this time, I'm going the usual route. The way I think of 180 headers is you don't want to have any pulses entering the same collector 90* apart unless they all are (8 into 1), something weird happens in the collector when 2 pulses are so quick in succession , I think the sound from each joins into 1 sound making it deeper and causing a gap before and after. So you're actually only hearing only 6 seperate explosions per cycle from a US v8 and 2 of them are different than the other 4. My calculations say , to achieve this , you want to join 1&7 , 2&8 , 3&5 , 4&6 ... so as long as those pairs each have a collector , you won't get the weirdness, and thereafter you're dealing evenly spaced action , do with it as you will.
@@NickKautz Thanks Nick .Listened to a few of your video's every day last few weeks trying to get inspired to get to the project, which has to come only after my widebody project gets to a stopping point. Like I said, not a whole lot of really solid info out there. At any rate , true equal length headers seem to be a consistent item in getting a smoother screaming sound. The other is getting the pulses to even out from one method or another along with that. Your spacings & mine, which are typical proper LS tri-y both are consistent in pulses between cylinders throughout all 8 cycles, so I'm hoping mine I started on can give similar results to yours without redoing. You know how hard getting fit & equal length is.
Others with nice equal length long tubes, either 4 way or tri-y with certain exhaust have gotten similar tones, so that gives me hope for mine as is . If someday your version sounds great on an LS & mine not as good, well, chop & change.
Results speak & your ford version screams results.
May try a parked sound test this weekend with a few long square tubes to simulate boom tube sound.
@@joeleleux716 hey joe- saw that you finished your triple x pipe on some forums. Would you upload some exhaust clips of it? How does the triple x pipe set up sound with an LS? Very curious
@@trashbandit2449 I finished the triple x-pipe long time ago, but unfortunately haven't had time to finish my custom headers that will need to go with it. Also figuring that the new Corsa universal pro series mufflers should give or help with the exotic sort of sound. Expensive though.
th-cam.com/video/stAxCklh_e4/w-d-xo.html
@@joeleleux716 wow, the corsa alone makes it sound super exotic. Interested to hear the full set up, best of luck finishing the car!
I would really like to try this on my LS swap rx8 I'm trying to get done, I originally thought about doing an 8-1 setup under the car and basically make a bowl out of the headers to kind of cup the bottom of the trans and build a collector off of them but that would make it pretty hard to do basically anything under the car like oil changes a huge pain so I think I may try this idea on mine and see how it works and sounds
There's a C7 that made 180 degree headers fit: imgur.com/gallery/6JnKO/comment/1144227199 and just found this rx8 guy doing something wild: th-cam.com/video/79vQ8Lo0asE/w-d-xo.html
I love this
Im currently building a truck and I was wondering how I could acquire a set like this? Or what extensive work do I have to fab up to get something like this installed on ext cab?
You can buy headers for 5.0 and LS for $100 on ebay.
Litterly going to start buying my collectors ones ...
Make equal length 180* manifolds
If you were to nail these and sell them, how much could I expect to pay?
The thing with making headers is that it's a labor of love if you're doing it for yourself , but it can quickly lose it's appeal if you have to do it by hand over and over. Companies like Hooker and Kooks have fancy machines and tools (and employees) that make the process a lot smoother.
It sounds pretty similar to the Ferrari 348( th-cam.com/video/PiBbKPyuAG8/w-d-xo.html )to me, absolutely astonishing job you've done !
What is the exhaust after header in this version? Your triple x pipe and mufflers?
It was 3x in the video clip with dual exits. mufflers were magnaflow 14419 before each exit ... exhaust tips were 4 into 1 collectors turned backwards, lol. But I have a feeling that these headers with a simple y-pipe to 3" single and 1 of those mufflers inline would sound very similar. Maybe a larger magnaflow if it's for the street
Can you help me modify my longtubes like this?
When I try that for the 1st time , I'd like to have the car here so I can make sure everything fits and then test it , make adjustments, etc... I don't know where you live and it would be a pain to have to ship things back and forth. Once I've got the process down , yeah I can do that.
Nick Kautz I’d bring the car to you.
@@dustinguriel620 I'm in Hayward. What kind of car?
Nick Kautz 97 mustang cobra with the 4.6 DOHC engine.
@@dustinguriel620 How far away are you from Hayward? It's also possible that you could send or drop off just the headers , and I'll modify them and send them back to you , and then you can have your local shop get them to mate up with the mid-section cuz the length might change by a few inches.
Sounds like a vette
I had one that made 860rwhp and sounded insane: th-cam.com/video/-wk6gp1fqLQ/w-d-xo.html