As someone who only uses propane to cook outdoors and sweat copper pipe, this is a really nice explanation of why propane is priced the way it is to the consumer. I didn't think the process of unloading a railcar was so intricate and just the knowledge you've shared helped me and probably many others understand how things really work. By the looks of your infrastructure, I imagine the capital costs alone are pretty high as well as keeping up with regulations and their little quirks is pretty daunting. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us!
You're welcome and thank you for the comment. Yes the financial part is high but easier to deal with than the regulations. If you ever want to watch a couple mind numbing videos, check out the ones I did on OTMA, FRA, EPA and OSHA binders. Guaranteed to cure insomnia!
As a conductor for CSX I always wondered how these were filled. We always drop off and pick up and never see the in between. We do know the valves etc… for the chance of an emergency like a derailment etc... But I find the details fascinating. When we drop off tankers on a siding in or next to plants I see all these connections and pipes and platforms and it looks confusing and wished I had time to stop and ask the guys how it’s done. Thanks for this video!
im GLAD you fixed the Gatorade bottles.. .cuz i was going to make a comment something like that particular flavor of Gatorade is delicious .. glad to see the correct WHIMIS approved labels.
As I mention in the video, improvements like this happen over time, especially in a facility like this that we built from the ground up. We are forced by time and circumstances to prioritize things, and these bottles were a great example. I could have easily edited out the original bottles I was using and only shown the labeled ones. I did not think it honest to do so as leaving it in and explaining why was a good learning/sharing topic.Thanks for sharing.
I'm glad you got rid of those Gatorade bottles, I was horrified to see antifreeze in Gatorade bottles as it looks just like lemon lime Gatorade. Anyways I really enjoy your video series. I'm in the Tower and Communications industry, I've asked my tower crew to watch your videos, hopefully they will be inspired to use critical think more. Thank You.
I assume you have 2 liquid lines because of tank baffle/baffles? Where do you get the Nitrogen from? Is the Nitrogen just used to purge the pipe fittings? When the car is empty, is it slightly pressurized with vapor and shipped back? The whole thing looks like one big explosion hazard. It looks like your tools are Aluminum alloy spark proof. The VFD on the compressor will save a ton of wear and tear. All really great info. Thanx.
Your assumption about baffles is a good one, yet these cars have none. We use two liquid hoses to speed up the process. My nitrogen is supplied by "T" sized cylinders that hold about 300 square cubic feet of nitrogen. I use the nitrogen to open and close the stingers (ESVs) that I thread into the car valves and connect my hoses to. The nitrogen keeps the stringer open while in use, and in an emergency my system will automatically cutoff the flow of nitrogen which causes the stingers to slam shut. Yes, the cars leave my place with about 5-20 psi, less pressure in the winter and more in summer. For shipping purposes the cars' status is changed from loaded to residue. You are correct about the VFDs, they prevent a lot of problems. Hope this helps, thanks for sharing.
You take pride in your work! You take your work seriously. We can all take a cue from your wisdom of measure three times before ya make a cut "so to speak".
Hi Shaun, Yes there needs to be at least one checklist, not only so we don't forget something but to prove to any oversight agency like the FRA what we do and that we did it. Here we have the detailed list in the SOP's and the checklist is part of out railcar inspection/calculation forms.
Not in any functional way, they tend to be older cars and most were built or owned by ACF as far as I can tell. I only get about 10 or so a year. There are even a couple blue painted cars I get. Since these cars are capable of hauling many different products it is possible that they were built for a customer who specified white or blue because of the specific commodity they hauled when purchased. Glad you found this video helpful, thank you.
@@mypropaneinsights6074 I was thinking that the car owner wanted his cars a certain color. Got to catch up on your videos. I am now a subscriber. Thanks for being there.
@@mypropaneinsights6074 I've heard a couple of different things. One was that "flammables are black, caustics are white", but, that doesn't account for blue cars, or the old BN green cars. The other one was "it's whatever the owner wants it", in which case, I could say, "paint it hot pink!"
@@NiceMuslimLady Hot Pink? Don't give em any ideas! All of the new/newer haz-mat tank cars I have been seeing have all been black. I have heard the same thing as you about white and black cars. Perhaps the industry is moving over to a more uniform color coding. Thanks
@@mypropaneinsights6074 lul Something else I just heard about. It can have something to do with the colour of the commodity. I remember seeing tanks with white ends and black around the fittings in the middle. It had to do with hiding evidence of spills. Apparently there are some YELLOW tanks floating around that are used to carry Sulphur. Another one was that they repaint every 10 year inspection and swap the colour, however, I find that improbable...The oil cans after 20 years on the Coast Line were all rust coloured towards their EOSL. Probably a nugget of truth in a lot of those, but, ultimately, it's the owner's call. Nope, never seen a sulphur car as far as I recall.
How do you meter the tank cars to know how much was in each tank ? Does the price come down in the summer ? Here in Pennsylvania we have had the price double from last year and I thought it would drop this summer, but it has continued to rise, which doesn't make sense because the demand is much lower than the winter. Do they change the price each day, like they do for the grades of gasoline ? Is there a specific month or week that the price jumps up for the winter, or is it market demand just like gasoline ?
Let me take this one at a time. I do not actually run the propane from the cars thru a meter, some places do, I do not. I take readings from each car to calculate how much is in it. Historically the price USED to drop in summer, but ever since CFC's were banned more and more companies use propane as a propellant like in spray paint, plus propane retailers have increased their storage capacities both above and below ground, the net result is less "surplus" propane. The market price fluctuates daily, that is why companies buy large contracts to help them fix costs.Prices are affected by supply, demand, government policy, weather, as well as human fear.Change one or two of these and watch prices either go up or down. Hope this answer helped some, thanks for the comment.
Do you depressurize your cars when they are empty? One of the problems I deal with are cars coming in to be loaded with butane are at 100 psi. I need to depressurize them to 25 PSI to load them to the correct outage.
Yes I have other things to do most of the time, paperwork of one type or another. It's a good time to do some maintenance, but we cannot stray too far from the operation, we have to observe it all the time by being close and using cameras when in the office.
What state are you in ? I used to live in upstate NY and in Albany where the former West Albany yard is, I think it used to be NY Central that owned it, now CSX owns it. They have a HUGE propane facility. I don't know if they fill the tankers there or off load them there, but I don't see any storage tanks, just pipes on the ground. There is usually about 200 propane cars there. I have no idea who owns the facility or what it is for, but they have a lot of propane tankers always sitting in the yard. In Pittsfield Maine they had a siding that used to get 4 or 5 tankers a week and they had 2 very large white storage tanks. I saw that one in the 80s and I do not remember them using nitrogen, or a ground wire. Maybe back then they didn't have rules requiring them I know for gasoline they didn't have to reclaim the vapor It just vented right into the atmosphere at every gas station
Thank you for the comment. I am not familiar with that area of NY but a few years ago Crestwood expanded their presence in NY and they broker a lot of cars along with their trucking.
As someone who only uses propane to cook outdoors and sweat copper pipe, this is a really nice explanation of why propane is priced the way it is to the consumer. I didn't think the process of unloading a railcar was so intricate and just the knowledge you've shared helped me and probably many others understand how things really work. By the looks of your infrastructure, I imagine the capital costs alone are pretty high as well as keeping up with regulations and their little quirks is pretty daunting. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us!
You're welcome and thank you for the comment. Yes the financial part is high but easier to deal with than the regulations. If you ever want to watch a couple mind numbing videos, check out the ones I did on OTMA, FRA, EPA and OSHA binders. Guaranteed to cure insomnia!
Ouch, I think I'll pass for now.
As a conductor for CSX I always wondered how these were filled. We always drop off and pick up and never see the in between. We do know the valves etc… for the chance of an emergency like a derailment etc... But I find the details fascinating. When we drop off tankers on a siding in or next to plants I see all these connections and pipes and platforms and it looks confusing and wished I had time to stop and ask the guys how it’s done. Thanks for this video!
Thank you for sharing.
These videos are really interesting. Thank you for making them.
You're welcome, thank you for letting me know.
im GLAD you fixed the Gatorade bottles.. .cuz i was going to make a comment something like that particular flavor of Gatorade is delicious .. glad to see the correct WHIMIS approved labels.
As I mention in the video, improvements like this happen over time, especially in a facility like this that we built from the ground up. We are forced by time and circumstances to prioritize things, and these bottles were a great example. I could have easily edited out the original bottles I was using and only shown the labeled ones. I did not think it honest to do so as leaving it in and explaining why was a good learning/sharing topic.Thanks for sharing.
I'm glad you got rid of those Gatorade bottles, I was horrified to see antifreeze in Gatorade bottles as it looks just like lemon lime Gatorade.
Anyways I really enjoy your video series. I'm in the Tower and Communications industry, I've asked my tower crew to watch your videos, hopefully they will be inspired to use critical think more. Thank You.
Thank you, as you know all improvement is a process.
I worked at the factory that made those cars but never saw them in use
Thanks for the video, very informative
Thank you very much.
15:10 wisdom!
As someone who uses butanes and propane daily in the mfg of nutritional ingredients its good to see how this startup is performed
Thank you for sharing.
Great video really like the attention to detail
Thank you.
Thank you 😊
You're welcome, glad you got something positive from this.
Thank you so much I load butane cars and this helped me out a lot 😊
Glad to hear it. Thanks for sharing.
I assume you have 2 liquid lines because of tank baffle/baffles? Where do you get the Nitrogen from? Is the Nitrogen just used to purge the pipe fittings? When the car is empty, is it slightly pressurized with vapor and shipped back? The whole thing looks like one big explosion hazard. It looks like your tools are Aluminum alloy spark proof. The VFD on the compressor will save a ton of wear and tear. All really great info. Thanx.
Your assumption about baffles is a good one, yet these cars have none. We use two liquid hoses to speed up the process. My nitrogen is supplied by "T" sized cylinders that hold about 300 square cubic feet of nitrogen. I use the nitrogen to open and close the stingers (ESVs) that I thread into the car valves and connect my hoses to. The nitrogen keeps the stringer open while in use, and in an emergency my system will automatically cutoff the flow of nitrogen which causes the stingers to slam shut. Yes, the cars leave my place with about 5-20 psi, less pressure in the winter and more in summer. For shipping purposes the cars' status is changed from loaded to residue. You are correct about the VFDs, they prevent a lot of problems. Hope this helps, thanks for sharing.
You take pride in your work! You take your work seriously. We can all take a cue from your wisdom of measure three times before ya make a cut "so to speak".
Thank you for the kind words.
Should there be a checklist so you don't forget a step?
Hi Shaun,
Yes there needs to be at least one checklist, not only so we don't forget something but to prove to any oversight agency like the FRA what we do and that we did it. Here we have the detailed list in the SOP's and the checklist is part of out railcar inspection/calculation forms.
Thank you for making this VERY interesting video. I have one question......are the white tank cars different than the black ones? Thank you.
Not in any functional way, they tend to be older cars and most were built or owned by ACF as far as I can tell. I only get about 10 or so a year. There are even a couple blue painted cars I get. Since these cars are capable of hauling many different products it is possible that they were built for a customer who specified white or blue because of the specific commodity they hauled when purchased. Glad you found this video helpful, thank you.
@@mypropaneinsights6074 I was thinking that the car owner wanted his cars a certain color. Got to catch up on your videos. I am now a subscriber. Thanks for being there.
@@mypropaneinsights6074 I've heard a couple of different things. One was that "flammables are black, caustics are white", but, that doesn't account for blue cars, or the old BN green cars. The other one was "it's whatever the owner wants it", in which case, I could say, "paint it hot pink!"
@@NiceMuslimLady Hot Pink? Don't give em any ideas! All of the new/newer haz-mat tank cars I have been seeing have all been black. I have heard the same thing as you about white and black cars. Perhaps the industry is moving over to a more uniform color coding. Thanks
@@mypropaneinsights6074 lul Something else I just heard about. It can have something to do with the colour of the commodity. I remember seeing tanks with white ends and black around the fittings in the middle. It had to do with hiding evidence of spills. Apparently there are some YELLOW tanks floating around that are used to carry Sulphur. Another one was that they repaint every 10 year inspection and swap the colour, however, I find that improbable...The oil cans after 20 years on the Coast Line were all rust coloured towards their EOSL. Probably a nugget of truth in a lot of those, but, ultimately, it's the owner's call. Nope, never seen a sulphur car as far as I recall.
How do you meter the tank cars to know how much was in each tank ?
Does the price come down in the summer ?
Here in Pennsylvania we have had the price double from last year and I thought it would drop this summer, but it has continued to rise, which doesn't make sense because the demand is much lower than the winter.
Do they change the price each day, like they do for the grades of gasoline ?
Is there a specific month or week that the price jumps up for the winter, or is it market demand just like gasoline ?
Let me take this one at a time. I do not actually run the propane from the cars thru a meter, some places do, I do not. I take readings from each car to calculate how much is in it.
Historically the price USED to drop in summer, but ever since CFC's were banned more and more companies use propane as a propellant like in spray paint, plus propane retailers have increased their storage capacities both above and below ground, the net result is less "surplus" propane. The market price fluctuates daily, that is why companies buy large contracts to help them fix costs.Prices are affected by supply, demand, government policy, weather, as well as human fear.Change one or two of these and watch prices either go up or down. Hope this answer helped some, thanks for the comment.
20:04 thats the home run from the baseball that hit the train.
Got it. The car ships back with ~10 psi vapor pressure.
Yes
Do you depressurize your cars when they are empty? One of the problems I deal with are cars coming in to be loaded with butane are at 100 psi. I need to depressurize them to 25 PSI to load them to the correct outage.
Yes I do. During the summer my target recovery pressure is 15psi, and 5psi in winter.
Well what do you do when you're waiting for the cars to offload stand around do you have other duties?
Yes I have other things to do most of the time, paperwork of one type or another. It's a good time to do some maintenance, but we cannot stray too far from the operation, we have to observe it all the time by being close and using cameras when in the office.
Also, antifreeze kind of looks like gatorade.
What state are you in ?
I used to live in upstate NY and in Albany where the former West Albany yard is, I think it used to be NY Central that owned it, now CSX owns it.
They have a HUGE propane facility.
I don't know if they fill the tankers there or off load them there, but I don't see any storage tanks, just pipes on the ground.
There is usually about 200 propane cars there.
I have no idea who owns the facility or what it is for, but they have a lot of propane tankers always sitting in the yard.
In Pittsfield Maine they had a siding that used to get 4 or 5 tankers a week and they had 2 very large white storage tanks.
I saw that one in the 80s and I do not remember them using nitrogen, or a ground wire.
Maybe back then they didn't have rules requiring them
I know for gasoline they didn't have to reclaim the vapor
It just vented right into the atmosphere at every gas station
Thank you for the comment. I am not familiar with that area of NY but a few years ago Crestwood expanded their presence in NY and they broker a lot of cars along with their trucking.
I forgot to mention, I am in Indiana.
Here I was, thinking you just did car inspections; can you state your actual Job title?
Terminal manager.
I dare you to smoke a cigarette on top of that tanker 😅
Challenge not accepted! Thanks