Are UK & EU E-bikes Too Slow? | 25kph Vs 32kph Limiter Comparison!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.พ. 2022
- Are UK & EU E-bikes being limited too much by the law? Will De-restricing help or hinder the EMTB industry? Join Steve Jones as he conducts a series of tests & challenges to see how much difference riding a 32kph EMTB can make compared to the restricted 25kph UK & EU models!
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32km/h (20 mph) would align with the speed limit in a lot of urban areas and make e-bikes an even better option as they wouldn't be slowing cars travelling at the legal speed limit and would avoid risky urban overtaking for the sake of 4.5 mph.
Well, that's a very optimistic view point. Drivers unfortunately go over the speed limit by at least 10km/h (even in 30km/h zones) if the speed limit isn't enforced regularly in that area. That's my empiric conclusion living in a 30km/h zone. The only way to force them going slower is by riding in the middle of the street.
One oversight about the 25 kph/15 mph speed limitation in the UK is that it can be too limiting for those that ride on paved roads to get to trails. Riding slow in vehicular traffic can be dangerous...
Simply not true. Unless you can average 8kph above the limit just like them, they will harrass you. We see it on motoscooters all the time. In fact, your slightly higher speed means it takes longer and it is harder to pass you.
@@MHH3180 This is your point of view so therefore a statement like "Simply not true" is incorrect. You should write "I don't agree" or " Simply not true in my opinion". Either way I don't agree that traffic hassles more the closer your get to their speed, I agree to a point, that it's a little harder to overtake, but this is balanced by the fact they are less hindered in the first place due to you travelling faster. I think it's fair to say that most cars will hate you...
@@MHH3180 As a professional ebike trail builder and safety expert I can confirm Mark is wrong on this one. You need that extra ooph to get out of the way of something coming towards you, especially going up a jump or in a city environment like London
@@guylloyd200 profession bike wrench for 50 years, 30+ years long distance bike. Commuter and custom e-bike builder. I have experienced all sides, including the motorist and pedestrian on this one.
The higher 20mph limit would give me assist throughout all the gears and I'd feel a bit safer on the road with car traffic. Can't see any reason not to up the limit. Kids on scooters fly past at 30mph.
The problem is that on many mtb trails with man made features (jumps), quite often when trying to maintain the flow of the trail you are restricted by the 15mph limiter where on a non ebike you can actually accelerate easier to clear features as they were designed. Ive been on many trails in the UK which are relatively flat and cleared table tops or doubles on a normal mtb but struggled to get the correct speed on my ebike as it requires me to go over the limiter. I had a 2019 kenevo and i derestricted it but only to the US spec and it was so much better when hitting the trails i mentioned. I never try and max out uphill. for me its about maintaining trail speed in the same way a non ebike can / does.
I've the Orbea wild and I'm finding myself turning the motor off before runs so that I can push through. But yeah, they jump nice when you've the speed but they don't throw around like regular bikes
Hi mate I'm got the same bike, how did you de restrict it and does it use a lot more battery when out on rides?
@@sharkiboy1 I have a nukeproof megawatt now but when I had a kenevo (2019) I used the blevo app to set the speed limit. I only set it to the US spec. Didn't notice any battery difference.
Exactly the main reason why I derestricted my Decoy.
Spot on, its actually dangerous, many times I am between jumps and go to pedal and its like hitting a wall and before you know it you are sending off the lip with not enough speed and case the landing, didn't happen on my analogue bike.
The look of joy on his face on the Giant bike betrays the fact that the UK limit is too slow.
Hi guys, I’m in NZ and currently there is no limit, which is surprising considering the nanny state we live in. My first ebike was limited to 32kph, but I now have a Hikobike ebike and it maxes out at 45kph! I don’t hit that speed to often but is a lot of fun when I do lol. I can’t imagine being restricted to 25kph. BTW, love your channel 😊. Cheers from NZ.
@@downhill64 Thanks for clarifying that, I guess the grey area is what determines off-road vs road. My bike is designed for both, being a hard tail MTN bike I can use mine in both scenarios. So I guess 32kph max off road and 45kph on road? Must say, being a somewhat novice rider I'd never dream of hitting 32kph off road lol
Having moved here 6 years ago, I can assure you NZ is far from a nanny state compared to the UK.
Yeah the UK law of 25km/h is just horrible. That's why I built my own bike with a 1500w back wheel kit. Now it goes nearly 60km/h but the range doesn't last if you ride it like that lol.
I ride in rural New York State, and 20 mph is just far too slow to be safe in traffic, the speed limit in the UK is just ridiculously slow and is a danger to both the cyclist and the motorist.
I am 65. I have been commuting on traditional bikes for over 30 years. The closer you get to the limit, the harder it is for them to pass you and the more you get harrassed. You must maintain at least 5mph above the limit, like the average motorist, youbwill get more harassment. Most bike vs motorist incidents are harassment out of control. We see this with motorscooters all the time.
@Mark H Hendricks This is your point of view so therefore a statement like "Simply not true" is incorrect. You should write "I don't agree" or " Simply not true in my opinion". Either way I don't agree that traffic hassles more the closer your get to their speed, I agree to a point, that it's a little harder to overtake, but this is balanced by the fact they are less hindered in the first place due to you travelling faster. I think it's fair to say that most cars will hate you...
@@richieclarkiepiano I was once young, strong and scary fast, with a custom built racing bike. For urban cycling distances I could keep up with 30mph traffic and cars could not cross intersections with me. They still hate having to change la rs to pass and my experience, as well as every performance cyclist I have known, has been that you get harassed more. Indeed, it is inky my opinion that the reason we are harassed more is that it is harder to pass.
you can get rid of the limiter there are no legal consequences you just lose the insurance
Why do americans always think you need to be fast to be safe in traffic? I've ridden manually powered bikes in traffic for years, it doesn't matter whether I ride 32 km/h on my roadbike as exercise or 17 km/h on my commuter to work, in my experience the ratio of positive to negative situations with cars stays constant. The real danger stays someone not looking properly and hitting you from the side.
I love my US spec Ebike, used mostly on paved roads and some gravel. I notice the unpowered riders seem to make a point of passing me with gusto. Even before I got old I noticed that big legs and skinny tires will always outrun skinny legs and fat tires. It's not a race, but I do like the assist on the hills. My average speeds are always about 15 MPH and my rides are generally
I commute 10miles in the uk riding a grail on, I spend most of the time above the assisted limit, it does flatten the hills though. I can ride my unassisted Kona faster but the recovery time once I get to work is substantially longer...the limit needs raising.
We are asking for higher speeds for use on flats and for commuting. I don't want my commute to be limited to a road bike. It's actually unsuitable, in my case anyway. A road bike is for flat roads. It's designed to go very fast on flat roads. That's all it can do. For practical reasons, I routinely take short-cuts when I'm commuting to and from work. Off the beaten track, so to speak - no pun intended. I also like visiting new places and sightseeing on weekends and on my free days. And I also hit the trails on that same bike. It is easy to do the kind of riding I do with an eMTB, not a road bike. I don't want to own two bikes - one for the road, and one for the tracks and trails. I want one bike. I have one bike. Right now, Stevens E-Inception is my primary bike at the moment (I also have an analogue Trek Fuel EX). The Stevens is comfortable on the rutty and potholed roads that I commute on due to its dual suspension. I'm not risking my spine on a road bike on such roads. As such, I need the speed for when I'm forced to get on the main road for parts of my journey where there are no cycle tracks or off-road tracks. 15mph with cars whizzing by you at 30-40mph is not fun. It's dangerous (even with the new, improved Highway Code rules that have just come into force).
Road bikes are for climbs, not flat roads. At least a road bike that costs as much as an EMTB :D
Yes great idea…. We want to reduce greenhouse gas emissions but we will restrict the very thing that will get people out of polluting cars to go really slow so you don’t get anywhere very fast… perfect 👍🏾
Well said 👏
Exactly, if this country really cared we would have a half decent cycle network.
Yes I live in New Zealand and I commute on an ebike with a 45 km/h or 28 mph. The higher limiter compared to other bikes with a 32 km/h(20 mph) makes a difference in average speed, I cruise along at 41-43 km/h and my average speed is between 32 to 36 km/h.
The government is trying to get us to be greener by cycling instead of using cars but at 15mph max I’ll stick with the car / motorbike . 🤷♂️
I have a DIY ebike. If I give it a good pedal in level 9 PAS, I can hit 37mph. Stock motor and controller, but the software is “adjusted”. My bike is heavy, but for urban riding, it’s a blast to ride. 🇺🇸
I've set mine to the US limit as 25kph is right on my cadence limit on the road, meaning the motor cuts in and out. Now I can do 32kph and it's fine.
25km/h limit is simply pity. There is no limit needed at all, only regulation to limit speed for 20 or 30 kph by road singn, in same way as its done on road for cars. 25km/h is speed of dogs wandering around the streets, not for travelling humans. 45km/h is safe for riding a bicycle on road and 32 is safe for cycle lanes.
Saved up for two years for my electric mtb,I couldn't wait to get it but I ended up taking it back after a few days it was to bloody slow🚴🤷🏴
😆🤣
Get an illegal one. There's people everywhere building 1000w bikes that do over 30mph and it's not policed at all.
I love watching all the good content coming out of the UK from builders who DGAF about the absurd 25km/h limit.
Seconds into the trail I hit the 15mph limiter and the bike bogs down like I’ve hit the breaks. So unless the gradient is vertical and gravity is pulling me down, it feels like I’m peddling a tractor. Faster on my analogue bike by quite a margin. Going SL next time
Having rode a US E8000 and a UK E8000 those extra 7kph make all the difference on the trail especially hitting jumps when you just need that little extra bust of speed. I would be more than happy with 32kph.
In the US some areas (Mine being California) we have a 28mph (45kph) limiter on the bikes. However my bike came shipped with a way to make it 35mph (56kph). Also for battery life I do not see a reason to go above 20mph really. Anything past that on a heavy bike uses pretty much the engine more than human power so you are using way more battery life.
What I'm missing is you didn't mention that in the UK/EU the motor is limited to 250w but the US bikes have a 750w motor. This makes a big difference in the amount of torque the motor can produce, which makes a big difference in acceleration and hill climb ability.
My USA YT Decoy 29er hits 18mph and quits, but I rarely get there offroad ...Changing subjects...When I was motocrossing my CZ400 50 years ago we put a visor on our helmets to keep the sun and mud out of our eyes. It looks like Steve uses his visor as an air brake.
My question is , has there been or is there any current effort to propose a change of laws regarding the speed limit for license free e-bikes in Europe ? Like raising it to 30 or 32 kph within the EU or the UK ? Was this ever proposed by someone at all or is this considered a futile undertaking ?
You could always start a petition yourself and publish it on social media.
i would like to know, too
@@tc5042 I have just created a new petition now and will be sending it to ppl for it go live at live at least. Please keep an eye and sign it if you see it. Spread the word. Only we can change it
It's the UK. They will probably reduce it from 15. Anything that puts a smile on your face or makes complete sense is automatically called dangerous and banned
Answer to that question : Yes
In the UK we’re lucky to be able to ride off road wherever a normal bike can legally ride which is great. I can see that ending if the limit was increased and only been legally allowed to ride on roads and most probably have to be Insured as well.
25km/h assistance is fine for a mountain bike which should be spending most of its time off road. There is the odd occasion when a bit more speed would be nice but it is no where near worth the trade off of been able to ride wherever we want.
I feel like the fun police would love an excuse to regulate ebikes, let’s not give them any ammo.
Fully agree. I have 2 eBikes, MTB fully is perfectly fine with 25 km/h limit while it never sees flats and paved roads, the other one is trekking / commuter bike and this is completely different story. I took care about it ;-)
as long as you are off road nobody gives a shit atleast here in germany. your ebike can go as fast as you desire.
Great point, @rgd1977! It would be interesting to see if we ever get a faster speed restriction and what the legal implications would be.
@@embn fine for us in NZ 😜
Easy to pedal past the limit anyway. At least going down hill lol.
US here.. I recently set limiter to 40kph on my 750w rear hub motor and actually feel it's not as needed on the trails I ride. 32 kph feels fine and appropriate for my terrain.
had to de restrict my 2021 mountain bike within 7 days of getting it..i never use on road. such a pain when it would cut off assistance at 15mph. Now its much smoother.
The only way to sort this out with the set restrictions on ebikes in the UK is to seriously lobby the government. But it has to be a long term sustained effort to change the law. The world has changed so much they want people to move away from pollutants in terms of travel, what better way other than standard bikes to achieve this, where’s the incentive for people to change how we travel around other than motorised transport using petrol or diesel .
I believe 15.5 mph was set by the EU not the UK.
I like to ride my eMTB to the trails and back and the 20mph US limit is about right as I tend to cruise around 16mph. 15mph would suck as the motor would be cutting in and out all the time. On the trails I'm generally slower than the unpowered MTBs!
Had my Kenevo de limited and it’s an absolute weapon. I crash it a lot more, but I’m having more fun when I do crash it so it’s all good
I had to get my Shimano E8000 motor replaced under warranty and the manufacturer sent me an EU spec replacement motor. It was significantly slower so I just had to de-restrict it via software myself. What a difference, I can never go back. I can now keep up with or even pass roadies and gravel bikes and still get a workout because I'm on off-road tires.
Glad you mentioned warranty-mine has ran out :) did i actually put a smillie face for something that i no longer have available ........weird i am !
...and if you are lucky and have the old yamaha pw non se non st you can tune the shit out of it without anyone ever beeing able to prove anything if you remove the chip.
Bottom line: Volspeed V4, plug and play and you get 28mph without doing anything. No error codes etc. The way the bikes were meant to be ridden before nanny state made random restrictions. Do you need 28 on tight single track? No, but you may need it for larger jumps, grassy areas, riding to the trailhead etc.
I am on a US "area code" bike, so 32Km/h
Honestly, never felt I needed faster. If I am over the assist speed, I usually have enough momentum to just keep pedaling .... especially going downhill.
I ride my normal bike more than my electric though (5-6 times a week), so I am kind of used to do assist-less pedaling anyway.
And I ride flat-ish rocky, mucky trails too.... it is pretty tight though with sections where any speed would result in sucker-punching trees constantly..
@@denesk2794 You don't want to hit the limiter with a road gap jump.
Well, lots of people derestrict their ebikes or DIY a bike that goes faster than 15mph but will generally still adhere to the 15 mph limit most of the time but just having the option to go faster when the situation would be safer at higher speed is good to have.
So the current law is ignored often and police dont really care as long as you ride safely.
Making the limit legally faster will likely upset people enough to end up forcing registration and insurance etc etc so maybe let sleeping dogs lye.
Having said that, I think 15 us too slow, 20 would be fine but either one is too slow for the road and too fast for pavements.
Other countries have much better networks for cycling, the UK is a joke as usual.
Imagine being arrested for doing 25mph on a derestricted bike, in a 30mph zone, after being over taken by a roadie doing 28mph 🤣🤣
I commute on an e bike and I'm passed all day by roadies. Very Annoying
25k is mostly enough on technical singles.
On fire road, easy singles, flat bike park, it's not enough.
After some OTB and some very hard journeys with good XC riders, I decided to use US setup. Since 2 years, my bike became an everywhere fun machine, even I am not the faster biker. XC competitors rock!
I've owned both derestricted and restricted bikes and I must admit that I genuinely prefer the 25 km/h bike 95% of the time. For my particular commute that doesn't have super long stretches of flat my overall time doesn't change significantly. The other thing is I always feel like I'm enjoying the ride more as opposed to merely trying to get from A - B.
I commute to work by bike. My 24 km commute takes around 1 hr to 1 hr 5 mins. I cycle most days using my gravel bike as it is faster than my ebike (it has panniers, mudguards + integrated lights). On average by a couple of minutes. I use the ebike when I need to carry extra stuff, go shopping after work or when it’s very windy or heavy rain as it’s a better option. imo changing the 32 kph would make a lot of sense for commuting.
I would like to see this comparison on two touring bikes, geared for the road, over 50km of rolling hills. Then the difference would become really apparent. Doing the road test on bikes with tiny front chainrings, geared for trail riding, is a bit pointless. You end up ghost peddling before you reach optimum cruising speed.
It's absolutely ridiculous. In the US the limit is 20 mph and you can use a throttle as well. A nation built for cars has better bicycle laws than Europe. Ridiculous.
My Canyon eSpectral on 8 is out of warranty, fitted a speedbox and what a difference, don’t hammer it up hill but you can keep the flow far better on the faster trails. 👌🏽👌🏽😉🏴
You should had a de-restricted bike on this test to! I ride more or less only trails,dont have any hills, i do 30-33 Max on short distaneses but mostly a couple of k more than a manuall Bike,so its not about the Speed in the forests its the ability for me as a 57 year old to bike over 30km in one session = more FUN for a longer time and maybe even several days to follow,and the Power on the climbs is Awesome i can get up and over anything it opened up Riding EVERY WHERE almost like a Dirtbike and thats the BIG thing for me, done over 1600km with NO problems att al with Speedbox in the Boss CX Gen4.
Considering there's a big push to limit speeds to 30km/h in european cities, I would say that should be the same limit as ebikes. I would keep rental kickscooters and stuff capped at 20 to 25 , because you tend to respect more the equipment if you pay for it and aren't just using it for half an hour.
When i go riding with my friends with normal MTB's i always have the hardest time because of the limit, i think for an sports bike 25 KM/h is ridiculous because you always have those roads to the trail or in between that are not off-road and you always are hitting the 25 KM/h limit. I would realy love the US firmware on my EU EMTB.
I just wished the power cut off was softer. When I first got my bike I was pedalling up to jumps and caught out when the power cut out. I never notice it down hill and Up hill I've just accepted 25kph is fine, but running up to a jump hit the limited feels like some thing's wedged in my tyre it's an off putting feeling.
If they graduated the power cut off you have time to down shift vs being dumped effectively into a gear that's two high for no assist.
Oh dear 25 kph or 32 kph assist , I stick to riding my Specialized Creo Carbon Evo- 45kph limiter and bucket loads of battery range with an extender battery. No need to worry about a bit of off road or on road riding, or a very happy mix of both taking the long way commute, gravel e-bikes are awesome fun. Used to ride mtb's but they're way to good these days to be actual fun anymore without risking you neck and other body parts on ever evolving death trap tracks just to use them to their capabilities, get way more riding rewards from riding a cyclocross - gravel - criterium bikes or low flying fun on my motorbike.
I’m in the US and roadies always passes me on flats roads. I mainly ride between 12-18 mph on city commute in my Bulls evo Fs 2
nice bike not found anything better as yet.
If you want faster, buy a speedpedelec and follow the rules for that kind of vehicle.
If you want as fast as a road bike, pedal for it.
I commute to work every day, only a short trip of ~35 minutes, I avoid all the roads and take a longer path because the 25kph limit is too slow compared the the cars and trucks zipping past at 60+kph - to me it feels unsafe to be on the road in this situation.
I got rid of my Ebike because the limit was ruining my fun. Sure, the climbs were great. But accelerating down a trail (as I got much better!) just became horrible. Had several non-ebikes for a year now and not looked back. I’d buy and ebike tomorrow if they increased it to 32-35
Love the smile on Steve's face, pure enjoyment in riding :)
100%! At the end of the day it's all about getting out riding and enjoying whatever bike your on! 👍
I've never understood restricting a bike's speed. Why not just have speed limits in certain areas?
There was a working model for this developed shortly after the horse went out of fashion. Cars engines aren't limited to the speed limits, the driver is. I get that more speed does more damage to trails but on pavement the biggest risks are to the rider.
You see the smile it gives you going faster!!??
Strange situation really with this speed limiting. I have previously owned (and very much loved) a Honda CBR1100 Super Blackbird, perfectly legal to ride in situations where the government decree that the safe upper limit for vehicles is 60 mph, despite the fact that this bike was capable of doing nearly three times that. Similarly that most cars are capable of nearly twice the legal limit. I completely agree that riding a bicycle at 20 mph on a busy cycle path would be inappropriate and possible dangerous, but strange that ebikes are the only vehicle where this is controlled in the manufacture not in the user. So, essentially every other vehicle user is trusted to comply with the law (and the spirit of the law, i.e.avoiding dangerous driving) except ebikes who are compelled by implicit design restrictions. Funny situation really.
it´ll come to cars, bikes and trucks soon - don´t worry
@@erraldstyler yes for sure, and by the back door. With the advent of electric vehicles the government are losing too much money in lost fuel duty. This will very soon be replaced with road pricing based on black boxes fitted to each vehicle using GPS monitoring of distances and time travelled. Guess what distance/time equals. Goodbye freedom of choice, hello explicit speed restriction. Gotta love Big Brother eh?
@@jonm7272 they´ll just raise taxes on electricity. kw/h prices have gone up 50% here since the new year started. and we were on the top of the world already.
also, there´s a reason old vehicles get discriminated
@@erraldstyler The reason electricity prices have gone up is due to wholesale gas price and the stupid pseudo free market set-up. Nothing to do with tax or vehicles. Renewable electricity price has actually dropped a huge amount but we're still too dependant on gas (for the UK this is primarily from Qatar not Russia as some seem to believe) and a ridiculous 'locked-in' nuclear price level. Anyway, doesn't matter, it's not either/or, it's both. We are very definitely getting road pricing in the very near future, and the tech for in-vehicle use monitoring is already being used by some insurance companies for young drivers anyway so there are absolutely no technical barriers to this. Do you think any government would pass up increased revenue with the side effect of real-time monitoring of the movement of it's citizens. No chance mate, it'll be here within the next 10 years (and probably sooner). Happy to be proved wrong, but I won't be.
An un restricted e-gravel bike is the perfect bike for commuting, you can go almost everywhere, don't slow down moving trafic, have the power for more complicated situations and go shoping without being to heavy to pedal backhome
I've been riding normal road-bikes for decades here in the UK and definitely wouldn't want to head out with a complete novice not used to faster riding going at 20mph.
I’m in Canada. I get 32km/hr with my Norco Sight VLT. Would love to be able to get 40km.
I work for a local bike shop we sell ebikes. Some of them come setup for 42km hr
What bikes come with 42kph?
@@Pyr0philia igo electric
Love this vid! I live in the US and always wondered how big a difference there would be. Cant wait til the trail video!💪✌
Glad you loved the vid @R Tate! Stay tuned for the next one! 👍
Can you compare the consumption of the bikes? How much further (or not) can you get with the 25k bike in comparison to the 32k one (with the same battery capacity)? I personally ride on an S-Pedelec - road-legal up to 45k - and I feel the drag increase when riding over 30kph. Comparing the consumption of the two bikes will be really interesting.
I've ridden both. The uk version is a huge letdown... completely different experience, and one not worth the price tag, in my honest opinion. As usual great production! You guys and gals are top shelf.
The interesting thing would be what's the difference in battery life 🤔🤔
I live in Colorado in the US and my Rocky Mountain Powerplay is fantastic with the 20mph restriction. There is only a short bit of Singletrack I can ride it on as it’s illegal most everywhere I normally ride my mountain bike for now. I can, however, ride it on 4 wheel drive roads and that has really opened up the experience. There is nothing like riding a spine on one of our mountains on a jeep road around 13,000 foot elevation.
100 been saying this from the start always had My5 chipped up!!! So much better but this is when need less gears and bigger bearings as putting bike through almost motocross territory!!!
Great video and love your channel. I do wonder if you may have slightly missed the point or sentimet regarding the 15mph limit being frustratingly slow. For me, is probably fast enough for most of riding on tracks/trails & bike parks, given my age and not being the most athletic of riders. But on the road sections, fire roads etc to get to the trails, it's too slow. Seemingly safe for non- ebikes to go fatster thought !! and that is the point. I also don't want a range of bikes in my garage for each individual ride type, just one that does it all and an emtb with cut off at 20mph would do that.
I can’t imagine following such restrictive laws. Fuck all that
you are so right my man. some laws are ment to be broken and this is one of them.
I have 2 e-bikes and 1 Kona Abra cadabra mtb and a road bike. The e-bikes are better commuters because of the no/or less sweat factor , and of course the advantages when climbing hills and riding against head winds.Still use the Kona but the road bike is for sale.
The main problem with the limiter(s) is that the bike starts to ramp down as you approach the limit, and goes to zero when you hit it. That "ramp down" on power is horrible for your cadence and power. To make your cadence consistent, you then have to actually ride much slower so you have an predictable power assist.
With many town speed limits being reduced to 20mph it would make to up the bike restricted limit to 20 also. This would make it far safer for cyclists and probably less agro for impatient drivers. Campaign should be started maybe by Chris Boardman.
This part of the test really didn't mean anything. I'll predict on actual single track it will be really close as when climbing on that you aren't doing more than 25 kph. But I will take my 32 kph Canadian bike over a EU 25 kph bike everyday.
In Bulgaria we put bafang and drive with 50km/h on the streets.
The 25 k limiter is just begging for a chip… but 32 k and I would have left mine alone. Nothing worse when you lose power on the trail when it cuts out leaving you scrambling for options. I have delivered Uber eats for three years and 32 is fine as long as you leave a door width from the parked cars because Australia is notorious for getting doored. Ps yelling at the guys delivering food on bikes shows your mental aptitude but I’m sure everyone here already knows. Why can’t some people resist?🤣
As a person with a physical disability. I lack muscle coordination and strength in a right side of my body. Balance too is dodgy. Road ride on my EMTB, my sweet spot is 27 to 32kmph. I'm in that zone with my rhythm, Cadence. Happy! I personally think, if you are that persistent in maintaining 30 km an hour with pedal assistance. you've got to be on the wrong bike
Now, in mainland Europe you have different options than you do in the UK and Ireland.
I'm in Ireland. I have a full motorbike licence but I don't have the option of riding something like the Greyp that is unrestricted, has a twist throttle and is capable of 75kmh, like I would on the continent.
My commute is through the mountains that I ride for fun. It's about 30km round trip with 700m of climbing.... I have a manual job so a road bike isn't an option and I'm on country roads in the pitch black.
The choice of a little extra speed would be nice when the rain is hitting you sideways and you're not out for the craic. 25kmh is sensible in town, but out in the middle of nowhere it is slow, and for me personally, I find it's just under my natural cruising speed. 32kmh seems way more intuitive
I converted my hybrid with a mid drive recently, for riding on country roads, Kerry. I can ride assisted at any speed I like, but I find around 35kph is optimal cruising speed if I still want some pedal resistance in high gear, and I want decent range from the battery. My chainring and cassette are optimised for road use. I think the yanks have got it about right. I believe the big e-bike companies will eventually lobby to change EU restrictions to those of the US. It will make their offerings more appealing, and I think statistics will bear out safety levels as being acceptable.
The main point IMO is that in the US bikes are used mostly as sports/recreation vehicles, whereas in the EU a bike is much more used as a means of transportation. Imagine riding through London of any other city with a 32kph bike and what that does to the safety of you and people around you. Yes, you can get a speedpedelec, but those are much more like a motorbike/moped. In the terrain / outside crowded areas 25 kph seems a little slow, but then again, if that top speed is holding you back, aren't you just riding the wrong tracks?!
35 - 40 Kph is the perfect commuting, delivering, urban area, etc.
Then just get an E-moped or E-motorbike. It will probably have a better range as well.
20 MPH is a reasonable speed to allow someone to ride at. EMTB's are great, but all E-bikes should be allowed to ride faster. They are good for commuting and help reduce pollution.. With a road/hybrid bike, 15 MPH is not fast enough. When visiting London, you can ride on an electric scooter (which you stand on), which does 20MPH. It does not have a fraction of the stability an E-bike has. I think 20MPH is the perfect balance point, as it is fast, but to too fast for your average rider (especially on the road).
Any thoughts on battery usage between 25 and 32?
hard to take much from the first acceleration test. are they the same torque? weight, gear ratios, suspension settings etc? It would be great to test the same model of bike but one at the 25kph and one at 32kph.
Indeed. Like the radpowerbikes, they even sell at higher prices to europe with less of everything(power, torque, "premium" headlight...).
It' makes me laugh that they use KPH, when the UK is mph, and that's to make it sound quicker.
If I had a purpose built ebike, I would just hack the software, and if the bike needed to go in for warranty issues, I would put the stock firmware back on it.
Personally I have gone down the self build route with a bafang motor.
I have commuted on my ebike for a year now and the 15mph restriction in the UK is ridiculous. For one I’m always being passed and targeted by non ebike riders. We live in such a nanny state. Where 50cc scooters can’t even keep up with 30mph traffic.
This is the oldest problem of ebikes to ever exist. Covered time and time again. It’s boring now. Just de restrict your bikes ffs 🤦♂️
Why would changing to the USA speed limit void your warranty ? The bike is designed to operate to the higher limit so the warranty should t be affected
I think that you should be allowed to sign a disclaimer in the UK to allow you to have your bike set at the higher 32kph limit if your bike is only used off-road........ It would stop a lot of folk fully derestricting their bikes as the higher limit is more than enough but would also allow you to keep the warranty on your motor.
In the next video though can you please not work on averages through the trial as this makes no sense could you please work out how many times the motor cuts in and out on certain parts of the trial this would give a better indication whether the 20 mph is better or worse than the 15
probably. We are talking England, the land of the public official.
the 25km/h limit is just annoying.For commuting I rode a derestricted hybrid bike (commuter) to work and clocked an avg speed of 28km/h oer 16km (8-9 miles) This route was NOT flat as i lived half way up next to a skislope. The derestricted bike gave me a proper workout, and allowed me to get good excerise whilst not really riding a lot faster than anybody else riding in. This route is a crowded communte in and out of Oslo/Norway. The 25km/h limit was annoying the hell out of me and had me coast more than pedaling, spending longer time getting to work. Imagina -15 degree C and having to coast a lot when hitting 25 km/h :D
On trails on the other hand im couldnt care less and the 25km/h is more than enough, all the time.
Here in NZ me Kenevo SL is limited to 32kph but Strava tells me that top speed is often 55-60kph on steep descents. Can happily ride trails with the assist off if forced to.
I don't know about you hard core mountain bikers guys in the UK, but in Florida we have class 3 up to 28mph with pedal assist so guys like me want bikes with Big 1500 watt motors and 21+ AH batteries and that the power is electronically limited to 750 watts, so that we're legal but can turn it up when offroading. The Sondors Rockstar is one of the big boys. Love your videos.
yea!
Hi Louie, please don't reply to that message, it is a spam account and not us. We have removed it from the channel and deleted all of their comments.
@@embn Hey, I am glad to see you guys care. Good videos and banter. I didn't really reply. LOL It had scam "All Over It!"
Many trails in Yorkshire are linked with sections of B roads. It’s a real bind to have to cycle them at 15mph, which is why I de restricted mine to 25 mph.
We are not asking for much. A raising of the speed to 20 or 25 mph would be enough. The bike industry is keen to keep the peace and not upset the applecart, which I understand, but, they should lobby harder for a raising of the speed.
Chris Boardman bend Johnson’s ear!
Ditch the 250W limit as well. PLEASE!
Would be nice to see some heart rate numbers. What was the temperature? My workplace has a locker room with showers, so I can knock out any intensity on my commute. I would imagine some individuals would like to arrive sweat free. I have more to point out, but the most obvious is the e-bike choice. I would be using a grocery getter on my commute, not an e-mtb.
The better question is why limit E-Bikes to speeds slower than I can get on my triple ring city commuter? How can this be justified at all? This vid has a "let them eat cake" vibe to it.
I need top speed for commuting to the trails, and for keeping up with analogue 29ers on the flat.
So correct 👏
if we do not know whats the point.. ---the point is... MONEY.
In Denmark, my commuter bike is legal at 45 kph on the bike pathway. Though must have insurance, permanent light/break light and helmet
Shame you didn't get the same motor on both bikes
Greetings from Berlin (Germany), Nice Tour and nice Bike 👍😉
It's so much fun to set the bike to the US setting and fiddling with the wheel size. :P
Would be interesting to see what amps the bikes are pulling at their max speeds in comparison. I suspect if you derestricted a lot of EU ebikes, their batteries would be too small.
Largely it is the same bike. Just software restricted. I want to know how I reflash to the USA firmware.
@@Silverbeardedsurfer Eggrider.
Try then let me know if it worked. They are constantly updating due to manufacturers countermeasures...
Heck, some countries even has laws against these types of "tune ups".
@@jhonnydasbr5367 Thank you for the advice. I actually bought a hardware mod in the end. Splices in between the TCU and the motor. Accurate speeds on the app and turns off with the walk button. Seems to behave a little bit differently from how I expected. Not much rider input required to hit 15mph normally. Now I can hit 23mph or so. Was expecting more but it is actually perfect now for the gearing. Totally illegally where I am. Ho-hum.
I do 7 miles each way to work every day ... so many pot holes you need a mtb ... would like more speed as 5 miles is up hill lol 😆
I find it interesting that the UK mountain bikers are so in to electric mountain biking with their "too slow laws". And then they abide by them like they are being monitored by the government or something! It's like these UK guys rebel with buying more slow bikes. I don't get it. Who would buy an E-Bike that can only go 15 mph and then holds you back from trying to pedal faster? It ain't worth it.
If I commuted it'd be on an E-Road bike, e-Gravel bike or at least on an eMTB with slick tyres. Not an EMTB with fat nobbly tyres and sticky rubber. My e-Gravel bike, with its Fazua motor pedals easily above 25kmh on the flat. Feels like a normal bike. Up hills I'm significantly faster. Often at 25kmh, which I never would be on a motorless bike.
Yes, I'd like 32kmh but the main issue above the limiter is the tyres.
I dont like being limited on my Kenevo when rolling along fire roads with a slight downhill when riding with mates chatting as we traverse between trails. My mates on non-ebike cross country bikes (e.g. specialized epic sworks) are able to free wheel around 30mph and I was having to over pedal the limiter to keep in the conversation. And its ridiculously frustrating on downhill trails where we would be often riding at speeds beyond 20mph on non-ebikes, but not on a downhill focused eBike, its almost as if the nanny state are trying to impose upper speed limits to new tech bicycles.
With so many people unlocking their 25km/h restricted bike because it's painfuly slow, it makes a lot more sense to change the law and follow the 32km/h restriction, that way less people would feel the need to break the law...
By that logic, pretty much all roads should allow unlimited speeds for cars..