im sorry, but in retaliation did you consider the reduction of the damage? When counterattacking, a Champion’s default Skill will inflict 65% of its standard damage.
Is there any thought of including that spreadsheet on HH's website or build it into the gear optimizer? It would be awesome if the optimizer could search for the best gear sets to optimize damage, especially with regard to fury and retaliation etc. If there was an option to maximizing for CB damage and therefore look at the potential over 50 rounds instead of just a single hit, it could tell you which one of your artifact sets are the best, dependent on the stats you have available.
Its actually something I want to build into the optimiser in the future - right now its a little unfriendly for the common user and i'd like to make sure the end product is really good to use
Saph, you put out a vid about damage mitigation with like ally protect, and masteries like bulwark and selfless defender, and passivies like dutchess and ursurga and were they are in the the team set up. but i dont know what vid that was, it also mentions the tanky gear set.
Great vid! Question: In what order do passives and auras come into play? So for example, if I were to use Martyr lead and Iron Brago in the team, does his passive take into account the def aura of Martyr to calculate the 10% of Iron Brago's defence?
If you are already running a counter attack team; Bad-el, Aniri, Frozen Banshee, Jareg (4:3) and Skull crusher. Would you advise defense tree masteries? I just can't seem to do 1 Key NM really want to know how to do it
I've seen a number of content creators using Anax. Is Anax a better unkillable damage dealer in comparison to Fayne. I have both and want to build a spirt poisoner, that also has weaken and def down. Oh great video btw.
gj, just one question. it wasnt considered that you (depeding on comp) probably loose the att up buff if you proc extra turns with relentless or was is?
Yeah its one of those things thats quite difficult to consider in this version of my estimations - obviously theres variability here and there may be situations where you weak hit. I think this just presents an average ideal encounter :)
if im running a relentless bellanor in a bateater, should i put everyone else in crit damage gloves, with toxic set? looking to get to 1 key, currently around 50 million a key UNM
You probably want atleast 1 toxic (probs best on Painkeeper) and then get yourself to around 54% crit rate on your support team (Belanor passive plus a1 will get their crit rate to 100%).
I'm pretty sure counter-attacks do a percentage less damage than normal. Did you take that into account with the Retaliation hits? Do Retaliation hits work the same where they do less damage then normal?
@@seanforbes1034 min-maxing Is something you do once you build a comfortable endgame team. Even a Rhazin with 4k defense and around 180% c.dmg does roughly 150k with his A1.
Could you please do a CB video on a 4:3 ratio with Sepulcher Sentinel. Also I have been working on a CB team (not in use) which includes: Deacon Armstrong (lead), Sepulcher Sentinel, Toragi the Frog, Geomancer, and Sandlashed Survivor (working on gear [Lifesteal]). I know you need a lot more information, but based just on the champions is this a team worth building? Would Sepulcher Sentinel be a better lead?
Then it comes down to a Killable speed tune (Brogni is really good here) but you want to get an ally protect champion and then build your defense numbers up to about 4200 and try to last as long as you can.
You just need the right team comp. On my f2p account I run a double ally protect with Jareg and Skullcrusher, Frozen Banshee as poisoner, Aox as debuff extender and attack down to help Jareg, and Rhazin for def down. All in lifesteal, Easy 2-key on NM even with mid-game gear. Landing Attack Down/Def Down on the clan boss are probably the most important things when you aren't running an unkillable. The jump to UNM is the real hurdle when you don't have an unkillable comp given that you need really good gear for survivability and to land your debuffs. Ally protection is also huge as long as your tanks are well built.
Well you completely ignored 2nd or 3rd proc chance on relentless on this calculation. It goes from 18 to 9 then 5.5% chance. So you have 3 addtitional turn chances every turn which is not negligible if we are really talking about "science" side of it. It pops multiple turns more often than you think. Besides more turns means simply less cd on high damage skills. It ıs of course dependent of the champ you are using still worth taking into consideration. I know you cannot take everything into calculation in this excel sheet yet it is not accurate to call this science when you are neglecting some of the variants. Besides as someone else pointed out already, you need to take %65 of the damage deal factor of retalliation set into consideration aswell. Other than some miscalculations due to neglecting variants it is a good research overall. Thanks for sharing info.
There was a reason: Its only 1-2 more turns from these additional chances. 18% for 1 is simple to qualify over 100 turns (in this vid i did 96 as it matched the tune) you can expect 18 extra turns on average. However the 9% is dependant on the initial proc. Its not 18% OR 9% its 18% then a 9% roll. This means over 100 turns, you're looking at 1.62% chance that both events happen which translates to around 1.5 turns. Then for the third chance (5.5%) its still dependant meaning that over 100 turns on average its not likely to happen (0.089% chance). Now that doesn't mean it cant happen as thats the way a dice roll will work - you can always roll the extra turns but as an average it doesn't really make a difference to the outcome of damage. On the Retaliation point - I didn't clarify the damage but to confirm I took the expected number of counter attacks about 17 when you consider 49 CB attacks into 35% prob) then added those in as Counter Attacks - My math adjusts CA damage down by 25% so the damage you're seeing here is all the skill damage plus counter attacks as per the CA reduction in damage. Hope that clears up any confusion
Just an additional point worth noting: When I include those extra turns i mirror the current skill cycle, so if its A3 > A2 > A1 then i'll include that rotation to the number of expected extra turns - this ensures we are factoring in that Relentless could get you to a big hitter sooner. Obviously significant damage dealers may push the weight in favour of relentless (Jintoro/Ninja a prime example) but I did want to clarify the point on the less cd on skills you referenced :)
Saph is so cute. Oh my word 😋
Well that is getting pinned :D
Wasn't expecting that 🤣
You need help
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This is exactly what i needed! Thank u guys! Great content!
Very insightful, as always. Thanks for doing the "grunt" work so we can make better in-game decisions. Much appreciated.
What an awesome video. Great information. Thankyou HH Gaming. Always going above and beyond for the community.
good video. thanks, saph.
im sorry, but in retaliation did you consider the reduction of the damage? When counterattacking, a Champion’s default Skill will inflict 65% of its standard damage.
I did indeed - in my excel it classifies it as a Counterattack and reduces A1 by 25% :)
Excelent info as usual! Thanks and best regards.
Great content, very informative.
Is there any thought of including that spreadsheet on HH's website or build it into the gear optimizer? It would be awesome if the optimizer could search for the best gear sets to optimize damage, especially with regard to fury and retaliation etc. If there was an option to maximizing for CB damage and therefore look at the potential over 50 rounds instead of just a single hit, it could tell you which one of your artifact sets are the best, dependent on the stats you have available.
Its actually something I want to build into the optimiser in the future - right now its a little unfriendly for the common user and i'd like to make sure the end product is really good to use
You guys are awesome! keep it up :)
Great stuff 👏 👍
Great video! I love the math!
Great video. Is your spreadsheet available to download?
sorry, i was trying to catch this when you discussed retaliation initially but did you say retaliation counters when hit or when damaged?
I run Valkyrie. Should i run Support tree for bigger shields or defense?
Saph, you put out a vid about damage mitigation with like ally protect, and masteries like bulwark and selfless defender, and passivies like dutchess and ursurga and were they are in the the team set up. but i dont know what vid that was, it also mentions the tanky gear set.
Great vid!
Question:
I have a ma´shaled, 2 fu-shan, a maneater, pain keeper, seeker. i don´t have a demytha
Can i make the fu-myth work? I also got a geomancer
Great vid! Question: In what order do passives and auras come into play? So for example, if I were to use Martyr lead and Iron Brago in the team, does his passive take into account the def aura of Martyr to calculate the 10% of Iron Brago's defence?
Is it possible to run double relentless damage dealer(ninja and Dracomorph) with a double maneater unkillable combo, if it is what should the spd be?
If you are already running a counter attack team; Bad-el, Aniri, Frozen Banshee, Jareg (4:3) and Skull crusher. Would you advise defense tree masteries? I just can't seem to do 1 Key NM really want to know how to do it
I've seen a number of content creators using Anax. Is Anax a better unkillable damage dealer in comparison to Fayne. I have both and want to build a spirt poisoner, that also has weaken and def down.
Oh great video btw.
where to get that excel?
What a journey
gj, just one question. it wasnt considered that you (depeding on comp) probably loose the att up buff if you proc extra turns with relentless or was is?
Yeah its one of those things thats quite difficult to consider in this version of my estimations - obviously theres variability here and there may be situations where you weak hit. I think this just presents an average ideal encounter :)
if im running a relentless bellanor in a bateater, should i put everyone else in crit damage gloves, with toxic set? looking to get to 1 key, currently around 50 million a key UNM
You probably want atleast 1 toxic (probs best on Painkeeper) and then get yourself to around 54% crit rate on your support team (Belanor passive plus a1 will get their crit rate to 100%).
I'm pretty sure counter-attacks do a percentage less damage than normal. Did you take that into account with the Retaliation hits? Do Retaliation hits work the same where they do less damage then normal?
They do about 20% less damage, but that doesn't affect warmaster procs, which are the bulk of the damage anyway in many cases.
@@PiiskaJesusFreak actually, a properly built DPS in clan boss should hit for 120-150k per attack minimum. It's double than a war master proc.
@@stefanoconrotto9998 that's insane. I'll never reach those numbers
@@seanforbes1034 min-maxing Is something you do once you build a comfortable endgame team. Even a Rhazin with 4k defense and around 180% c.dmg does roughly 150k with his A1.
@@stefanoconrotto9998 They do 25% - my math above has this reduction built in :)
Is Kalvalax actually jus Urogrim?
Hes is the pre nerf urogrim. No one with urogrim would be pulling shards for kalvalax thats why they nerfed him
Could you please do a CB video on a 4:3 ratio with Sepulcher Sentinel.
Also I have been working on a CB team (not in use) which includes: Deacon Armstrong (lead), Sepulcher Sentinel, Toragi the Frog, Geomancer, and Sandlashed Survivor (working on gear [Lifesteal]).
I know you need a lot more information, but based just on the champions is this a team worth building? Would Sepulcher Sentinel be a better lead?
nice video!
How do people do unm or nm , if they can't do unkillable. I takes me 6 keys on void to do nm, and unm is plain impossible.
Then it comes down to a Killable speed tune (Brogni is really good here) but you want to get an ally protect champion and then build your defense numbers up to about 4200 and try to last as long as you can.
You just need the right team comp. On my f2p account I run a double ally protect with Jareg and Skullcrusher, Frozen Banshee as poisoner, Aox as debuff extender and attack down to help Jareg, and Rhazin for def down. All in lifesteal, Easy 2-key on NM even with mid-game gear. Landing Attack Down/Def Down on the clan boss are probably the most important things when you aren't running an unkillable. The jump to UNM is the real hurdle when you don't have an unkillable comp given that you need really good gear for survivability and to land your debuffs. Ally protection is also huge as long as your tanks are well built.
Rly good video ...
What did you steal HH logo and design?
Yeah and name good plan right? 👌
Well you completely ignored 2nd or 3rd proc chance on relentless on this calculation. It goes from 18 to 9 then 5.5% chance. So you have 3 addtitional turn chances every turn which is not negligible if we are really talking about "science" side of it. It pops multiple turns more often than you think. Besides more turns means simply less cd on high damage skills. It ıs of course dependent of the champ you are using still worth taking into consideration. I know you cannot take everything into calculation in this excel sheet yet it is not accurate to call this science when you are neglecting some of the variants. Besides as someone else pointed out already, you need to take %65 of the damage deal factor of retalliation set into consideration aswell. Other than some miscalculations due to neglecting variants it is a good research overall. Thanks for sharing info.
There was a reason: Its only 1-2 more turns from these additional chances. 18% for 1 is simple to qualify over 100 turns (in this vid i did 96 as it matched the tune) you can expect 18 extra turns on average. However the 9% is dependant on the initial proc. Its not 18% OR 9% its 18% then a 9% roll. This means over 100 turns, you're looking at 1.62% chance that both events happen which translates to around 1.5 turns. Then for the third chance (5.5%) its still dependant meaning that over 100 turns on average its not likely to happen (0.089% chance). Now that doesn't mean it cant happen as thats the way a dice roll will work - you can always roll the extra turns but as an average it doesn't really make a difference to the outcome of damage.
On the Retaliation point - I didn't clarify the damage but to confirm I took the expected number of counter attacks about 17 when you consider 49 CB attacks into 35% prob) then added those in as Counter Attacks - My math adjusts CA damage down by 25% so the damage you're seeing here is all the skill damage plus counter attacks as per the CA reduction in damage.
Hope that clears up any confusion
Just an additional point worth noting: When I include those extra turns i mirror the current skill cycle, so if its A3 > A2 > A1 then i'll include that rotation to the number of expected extra turns - this ensures we are factoring in that Relentless could get you to a big hitter sooner. Obviously significant damage dealers may push the weight in favour of relentless (Jintoro/Ninja a prime example) but I did want to clarify the point on the less cd on skills you referenced :)
unless u show the run all these info is useless... show the 1k run or esle its just gambling
No, it's still maths ;)
In my opinion this mathematics ruin a game..just my personal opinion
Weird looking new world content