When it comes to Saturn Emulation, I get excellent results with Mednafen, a good front-end and a $10 Saturn style USB controller. Great way to get a taste of something exotic without investing a bunch of cash. Mednafen even has a nice crt filter that makes the games look like you're playing them on a high end 90s TV. I leave the resolution alone. The blocky graphics are part of the charm. The trio of Gundam Side Story games have fast become some of my favorite games for the platform.
Aw, my ears are overjoyed. Thank you for using a track from Shining Force 3. So magical. I hope one day you cover all 3 scenarios and the premium disk.
You're absolutely spot on over the Saturn emulation scene. I did use SSF but found that Dark Saviour kept crashing on me on the same spot so switched to Mednafen instead though the downside to that is having to download an unoffical front end in order to bypass it's default command line method.
Completely unrelated, but those old Segata Sanshiro skits always make me chuckle. He was mascot done right and its such a shame he was never really shown here in the States.
I just finished this video, and I gotta say, love your channel. I recently acquired a round button US Saturn. For the first few weeks, all I had was the three cardboard sleeve games it came with (Daytona USA, Virtua Cop, and Virtua Fighter 2). There are so many things to learn about the system I had the opportunity to buy when it came out, but got an N64 instead. In fact, I started importing games in general because of Sega Lord X
Imagine this, Segata Sanshiro storms the stage and reveals the Dreamcast 2: no censorship, no greed baloney gambling, and no lazy cash grabs. Paradise...
Love your Saturn content my friend, particularly the technical stuff. Back in the day I picked up the PS having lost trust in what Sega was doing. I just got my first Black, round button today, largely because of you enlightening me on the beauty of the Saturn. Plus, I’ve always loved hand drawn sprites over polygons! ✌🏽
I read part of the trouble with developing for Saturn vs PS was the fact that Saturn's 3D Graphics architecture was based around using quads rather than tris, as in each face of the polygons had 4 sides instead of 3. If you've worked with 3D graphics recently, you know systems based around tris won out over quads, since they are more efficient, one less side and vert to worry about basically. I wasn't a developer at the time, so I don't know how the software worked back then, but since it was very early days, it was probably like choosing between VHS and Betamax, and this time Sony picked right.
I Have a Brazilian Tec Toy White Saturn with mod chip. I bought very cheap 11 years ago and works pretty fine. In the future you could talk about the best methods to burn cds and the best way to preserve the optical lens. By the way, love the videos, Regards from Brazil!
7:50 I use a Genesis 2 RGB to Component cable from HD Retrovision running into a RetroTink 2X and then a mCable. Zero lag, but to get 1080p upscaling you have to have smoothing on. I love how crisp and clean the RetroTink + mCable make the Saturn look, but if you need the blocky pixel look, seek other options, though the Component cables at 240p still look amazing next to composite. The HD Retrovision Genesis 2 cable is what I use for my Saturn, Genesis, and even my PC Engine via a Terra Onion Super SD System 3 (the PC Engine version of the Mega SD). This works great if you have nowhere to stick SCART.
I had the same problem with Outrun, Afterburner 2 and Space harrier. All didn't work on a white Japanese model 2 saturn. I bought a grey model 1 Saturn and no problem at all and now it works like a charm.
That means there's a problem with the motherboard in that white model that is causing a problem with the game. certain motherboard revisions also cause problems with the American and Pal versions of Need for Speed and maybe other games that no one noticed yet.
Great video. When I bought the black arcade stick, the first thing I did was swap out the ball top. I finally ordered the HSS-0104 stick today and I can't wait to try it out, since most of my Saturn library consists of arcade ports, mainly fighters.
Great job on the video SLX. I would warn about the Level Hike cable and its variable lag is been shown to have. It's not designed for gaming really. The Rad2X you showed off is the perfect entry level solution for video output.
Glad I stumbled upon this today. Just got a Saturn from Japan and have wanted to get a copy of OutRun for it. Happy to know I won’t be wasting cash when I get a copy!
Thanks for showing me my Magic Knight Rayearth is worth $1500. That, along with my Panzer Dragoon Saga being worth $1500. Holy schnikeys. I'm going to have to see what other gold I bought back in 1997, lol.
I recently got my first Saturn in yesterday. I played it at a friends house when I was a kid.....I'm still youngish. But man seeing this brick on my TV stand is amazing. Though I forgot to get a game so Virtua Cop 2 is on it's way but the main reason I got it was that it was a model 1 and I ordered a Fenrir.
Great video! I remember having a card that you could slot into the back of your Saturn, that would allow you to watch v-cds. The only one I ever had was the Street Fighter manga cartoon. Had some awesome games for that computer. Shout out from 🏴
Before buying an expensive device to hook your Saturn to a modern TV, try and borrow one and see for yourself how much better (if any) it does vs simply plugging the Saturn into legacy ports on your TV. Many modern TVs have great internal hardware for converting the signal to the display’s native resolution. Of course, many don’t. And some don’t even have a legacy port at all. But you might be spending money on a device merely does what the TV itself is quite capable of doing.
Thank you for covering the oddities of Sega Ages OutRun. I own the 1050A revision since I have a JP white Saturn. I didn't want to take any risks. From some digging I've done - only Japanese white Saturns have this issue with the 1050 version, but even then it depends on the motherboard VA revision. I believe all US/EU model 2 mobos are safe. Saturn has tons of VA mobo revisions compared to the Genesis.
The issue does come down to the motherboard revision. If your Saturn is a VA0-9, then both Sega Ages Outrun AND Space Harrier should work fine. The VA10 and onwards units integrate the sound hardware into a single IC, which causes issues with the first prints of those games. The Saturn wasn't produced for the western market for long, so there probably aren't that many problem consoles outside of Japan.
@@AceTrainerX3 the is definitely reassuring. I’m in Japan currently and just bought this game but I couldn’t open the game to check the disc code. Looking at it now it ends with an A but I use a US model 2VA7 so this means I should be good!
Just wanted to toss this out because it was really helpful to me. If you add timestamps, TH-cam will automatically put breaks in the timeline. Even if you don't want to timestamp the whole video, you can do important things like the close-up of the Gameshark pins vs. Sega memory card. I always have comments where people totally miss something important that I did actually mention, it just went by fast and they missed it.
It truly comes down to software in most cases. If a system has the best stats but has Garbage games, it will fail. You are correct on every point here. Even the US fight stick. It uses membrane contact and a dome stick, and the sticks tend to bend. I have thought meany times about pad hacking mine into a new shell with Sanwa parts. Maybe one day soon.
Sega Ages Space Harrier supposedly has a similar issue to Outrun were there are two different versions and the older one fails on some Model 2s. I also have two versions of Altered Beast for PC Engine CD-ROM² where the newer one works with the Super System Card and the older one does not. The newer one has a large black dot printed on the disc near the title but the case and art don't have any difference I can see. The ring code is different, of course, but I can't recall off hand.
I use a RGB cable from Retro Gaming Cables with my OSSC in Line 3x mode and it makes Saturn games look gorgeous! Although if you only wanna play Sega Saturn the RAD2X is probably the best value. Great video as always SLX!
Another top video slx! I was one of those that emailed you a couple years back about outrun not working on my jp model 2. I ended up getting a second white Saturn after that and it works perfectly. I guess some of the model 2s just can’t play the game
I just checked Sega Retro along with various forums, and I can confirm that Sega Ages: Outrun does have some issues with certain Saturn consoles. Specifically, the VA10 and onward motherboards (and possibly the VA6/7) consolidated the sound block(which controls the CD Drive) into a since IC to reduce costs. This bugged out some 68000 commands, and any games that use those commands will lock up the Saturn. The first print versions of Outrun *and* Space Harrier are known to trigger this bug, so be on the lookout if you plan on collecting those two discs.
Another great video SLX! Just got into the Saturn thanks to you and I am loving every minute of it. Was always curious about how to play repros on my Japanese saturn so this video was quite helpful....now wondering where I can go to find repros outside of Etsy. Your tip on psuedo saturns is awesome but wondering if sellers show pictures of the actual boards to check for bevels and such.
16:38 My favourite part of this is that today, 3 years later, that misconception is very much alive and doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon. So many people talk about Saturn emulation as this thing that barely works and/or requires cutting edge hardware to even work, when the real case is that as long as your PC was made around 2014-15, you will run most of the library without any issues whatsoever. Hell, I would argue that N64/PS2 emulation is in a way worse spot comparatively speaking, even if they have gotten much better in the last few years.
@@AlfaRomeoQ I'd rather play on a CRT via RF than most other options on a HDTV, tbh. Zero lag more than makes up for compromised audio/video.
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@@AlfaRomeoQ I used to have my Playstation hooked up to a sony trinitron through scart but my trinitron broke around the start of the lockdown so I haven't had the chance to get another one
I can confirm that my Japanese copy of Outrun works on my Japanese model 1 Saturn but not on my Japanese model 2. Space Harrier is the same. This is a pain since my model 2 is my main Saturn. I need to get a copy of the P1K rom and burn a disk sometime. Those two games are the only ones I am aware of with this problem; certainly they are the only ones I've come across.
Saturn players should also look into the Retrotink 2X Pro for playing on a HDTV. You can use your existing cables to connect to it. Soon there will be a 2X mini with a lower price point and focus on composite/S-Video, lowering the cost barrier for usage. The RAD 2X is the same device just made into a single cable.
I really enjoy the black US/euro stick for playing panzer dragoon. I think the lack of microswitches, the small resistance and the big ball are good for simulating what could be a plane joystick.
"I think the argument isn't so much 'which hardware was more powerful' but 'which developer actually *had the skill to make the most impressive games'?"* Holy shit, THANK YOU. The hardware arguments are always so stupid - for _every generation._ Why the hell do so many people discount the _talent behind the games they play_ so damn much? Do they just completely ignore the credits in their games? They think these machines just _will_ software into existence, lol? ffs, not enough people will say something like this. Once again, you're proving to just be more thoughtful than 99% of schmucks covering games out there these days, SLX :)
I bought a Saturn that had what was left of a cart stuck in the slot. Only the PCB was left, all the plastic was missing. I am guessing that it broke when someone was attempting to remove the very stuck cartridge. Whatever cart it was (I believe) did region unlocking as the sole game that came with that system was a Japanese one. I managed to remove it carefully with a pair of pliers and the slot still works, but it definitely was a learning experience.
Great episode. One thing I did want to comment on was the power difference between the PS1 and Saturn. I think a key difference here is how poor sega's third party development tools were at launch. Many programmers had to reverse engineer the system or write their own software to get the console to display 3d proficiently. Some speculate sega kept the best software for internal projects because they didn't want to be outshone by third party Western developers. Most developers didn't get access sega's revised and more powerful development software until late 95 / early 96, which meant we only ever really saw "2nd generation" software on the saturn. By this point most gamers had moved onto the PS1 or N64, so developers dropped saturn development- this is backed up by how little software was released on the saturn in 97: the console was on life support. I always felt that the saturn was not on the market long enough to actually see the full potential of what the console could do with mature software. Look at PS1 games like Wip3out or R4- they looked almost as good as some PS2 games. Although the saturn had a good run in Japan, these were mainly low budget games like fighters, shooters and J-RPG's. As much as I love the saturn, I can't look past all the wasted potential.
With regards to CD burning, my understanding was that the CD copy protection and region lock are two separate things; that the Action Replay cart removes the region lock but a mod chip is required to remove the CD copy protection. Unless that has changed since I got my mod chip and Action Replay cart 15 years ago.
Another great video. Even back in the day I wasn't a fan of 3rd party accessories and didn't use them much if at all so my original hardware is still doing fine. As for the discussion between which is the most powerful, the Saturn or the PS1, I think it's fair to say that both machines produced incredible titles, some of which couldn't appear the same way on both machines, but it certainyl felt more of a victory to the underdog that was that Saturn when it produced something special. Great video.
06:39 I have one of the modern red combined RAM expansion and memory card cartridges with PseudoSaturn on it. It didn't originally have the bevel, but I took a dremel and ground it down to a bevel.
@Karl Burnett 3DO version is a very different beast with its own physics model, it's unique, I'll give it that. Other versions were much more arcady. I remember that 3DO one had higher resolution graphics than PS1 which had very grainy low res visuals but with much better framerate though, not sure how Saturn one compares
Later releases of the saturn had an under utilised chip removed to cut costs. Outrun was the biggest offender of using it. The Japanese versions of the saturn were the only ones affected as the build dates when much later than the western versions. The p1k version was re written to run without the missing chip.
2 chips were combined into one, the SCSP and Motorola 68EC000. Combining functions into fewer chips saves costs. Console makers have been doing this for decades. Saturns with VA10 and later motherboards are affected. This includes some white Saturns, and even some late USA Saturns. You can tell by the serial number. The first digit (or 2) will be the manufacturer code, the second will be the year, such as 6 for 1996, the 3rd digit will be motherboard type..0-9 is good, but a letter means VA10 or later board. The combined chip introduced a bug which affects early Outrun & Space Harrier discs. The games were re-released with revised code to get around the problem.
Lots to say about one of the most mysterious consoles. It is a console shrouded in mystery, it always has been. I own my original I got right after surprise launch in 95. Yes. I learned the hard way. Be careful and mindful of what you put in any retro system. With these new modern repro carts I destroyed a 32x. The square edges destroy and crush pins.i file a slight bevel on them with a file.even a slight bevel helps tremendously. I took the rgb scart route with a relatively cheaper upscale. Make sure it is an upscaler and not just a hdmi adapter! But if you get a decent one,it will make the image a lot cleaner!!! I recommend some sort of upscaler. Fortunately mine only goes out for about 1 second when switching resolutions. Not to bad but as Sega Lord X said,some take much longer to switch resolutions. I do recommend a pseudo Saturn cart. I recently switched from my action replay to the pseudo Saturn. The reason was now I can play back up cds. .It loads up another boot program that ignores security and region code,where as replay only bypasses region. I do keep my action replay though because with my video card I can watch CD movies with it. Its really a novelty but its kinda cool. I might be able to play movies with the pseudo,if so I havnt figured it out yet.
5:21 The Hori Real Arcade VF stick is good too for shooters, and might be found cheap sometimes. Only 3 or 4 buttons though. I think it has microswitch joystick.
Unfortunately the framemeister isn't in production anymore, and it's tough to find listings under $650. On the other hand, the OSSC has become cheaper lately, running around $140 on videogameperfection rather than $200.
Not making a war console here, just a curiosity. Another problem i think with Saturn vs PS, is the use of Quad, instead of Triangles in PS to render the 3D. Another problem is the textures, is much more blocky than the PS1 and even today i don't know why. So the graphics are much more pixelated in TV. I remember seeing a lot of games(and not seeing the console) and I knew its a Saturn, just for the blocky presentation. i Love the Saturn and PS1. I'm sorry if I bothered you guys.
Another point to make about PS1 vs Saturn game quality, is multi-platform titles. Developers are always going to take the path of least resistance, to make their release date. The PS1's elegant design meant it was going to be the lead platform for many multi-plats.
Its here....another video we need in these crazy times. Stay safe gamers and sega people. Does anyone think we will get a Saturn or dreamcast compilation ever on current or next generation?
Is it crazy that I still have my launch day US Sega Saturn, and never once used the Cartridge slot? Never bought any sort of memory expansion, and remember ignoring it when I found out it wasnt a Genesis/32x Cartridge slot. lol
I very much agree with your take on the power comparison between the Saturn and PlayStation. Sadly it feels a little unfair because the PlayStation seemed to have so much more 3rd party support overall to analyze, access and draw conclusions from, especially from western developers regarding its power. You have games like Omega Boost and Disruptor both which run at 60, Wipeout 3, Tekken 3, Crash and Spyro series, Colony Wars series, Gran Turismo 2, Chrono Cross etc. It's hard to find at least for me, Saturn games that we could use for comparison, even indirect comparison. But I still need to invest alot more time into Saturn gaming. It's as you said though, talented devs make both of them shine, and they both released in 94? So they're in-arguably competitive with each other.
Alright, there's a myth that I need to bust. In the Hunt on the Saturn is exactly the same as the arcade original, especially when compared to original M92 arcade pcb/hardware. IT IS THE ARCADE ACCURATE version. They both suffer from tons of slowdown in the same places. The Playstation version runs much faster, and the comparisons I hear are usually done with emulated versions of the arcade roms which also runs faster.
@@SegaLordX Honestly though seems like the same to me, I also have the M92 board and it's pretty much the same slowdown wise. That last stage is impossible to 1cc on the PS1 version due to itsx lack of slowdown.
@@SegaLordX Here's a good indication of how the board actually runs, not my video. You can clearly see the massive amount of slowdown here. Most people draw comparisons to the emulated version of the arcade game on Mame. th-cam.com/video/SQJC2RXIzgM/w-d-xo.html
Saturn in the hunt also had some wierd bug when booting from bios and a controller connected, it would freeze (at least my pal copy did) most of the time. In "PAL Land" In the Hunt and Mortal Kombat 2 slowdown was (17%) worse!
@@SegaLordX Someone... should do a video about these wierd saturn hardware/software problems and nuances, like the Pal Croc bios boot bug in its almost like "Rayman" glory!
Been loving your videos! I’ve been a Mednafen user and evangelist for years now. It’s so good! I have a tech question: what settings do you prefer for your visuals? I normally use the “goat” shader and the “supereagle” special settings together and the results look surprisingly sharp and upscaled nicely on 1080p screens. Any configuration tips?
Yeah the saturn is an interesting console in the fact that before you even get into it that it's smart to do a bit of research on it because there's quite a bit to learn
Thanks for letting us know about the Japanese arcade stick being loads better. I might try to take the shell from the US one and put Japanese parts inside. Then it might get some use.
Yeah I've got it on an Nvidia shield and it pumps out hd 60hz gameplay. Best way to play. I backed all my CDs onto an SD card and it beats the original hardware in terms of convenience and performance. I've tried retroarch, but it seems a little behind in terms of save states, and maybe transparency. Yaba Sanshiro seems to convert most meshes to transparency if I remember correctly.
There were complaints from developers that they simply didn't have the same development libraries that Sega's first-party teams had, which meant they had a harder time getting acceptable performance or good visuals out of the Saturn. The PlayStation was favoured across the industry and had the sales figures to back it up, so most cross-platform titles were ported from the PlayStation and not the other way around. That was difficult enough, without trying to code to the strengths of the Saturn without any real help from Sega... so there's little wonder that a lot of these games looked worse.
The First time a played sega saturn was in 1996 and i have my sega saturn until today. It's my favorite console.
I was a PlayStation fanboy as a kid so now as an adult I get to play Saturn and Dreamcast for the first time it’s awesome lol
My first was 1997 and Virtua fighter 2.I never played 3D game before.I was totally shocked.
One of the first games I brought with my very own money was X-Men children of the atom for Saturn. And of course I was hooked lol
I literally just acquired a Saturn two days ago so I am learning a lot. Video could not have been better timed. Keep up the awesome work!
Literally?
When it comes to Saturn Emulation, I get excellent results with Mednafen, a good front-end and a $10 Saturn style USB controller. Great way to get a taste of something exotic without investing a bunch of cash. Mednafen even has a nice crt filter that makes the games look like you're playing them on a high end 90s TV. I leave the resolution alone. The blocky graphics are part of the charm. The trio of Gundam Side Story games have fast become some of my favorite games for the platform.
Mednafen core is the best yeah.
Which frontend do you use? Or just base Mednafen.
@@DARS_04 Medsat.
@@SomeOrangeCat Can you link it, please? I can't find a proper download.
Aw, my ears are overjoyed. Thank you for using a track from Shining Force 3. So magical. I hope one day you cover all 3 scenarios and the premium disk.
Bro uploads like this are why I watch every vid you put out. Best Sega content on youtube if you ask me
Fact: Segata Sanshiro is the greatest mascot ever create on this big ole ball of water and land.
P.S. Great Video.
Awesome! "Your SEGA LORD X shipment has shipped!" Hoody on its way to me. Cheers SLX. Keep the videos coming.
I treasure my official SLX tee!
You're absolutely spot on over the Saturn emulation scene. I did use SSF but found that Dark Saviour kept crashing on me on the same spot so switched to Mednafen instead though the downside to that is having to download an unoffical front end in order to bypass it's default command line method.
Would you recall the name of that frontend? I'm having trouble finding one.
@@voteDC MedGui Reborn is a good one I use.
@@voteDC Mednaffe is also another frontend that works just fine.
@@Sakf504 @cheapshot777 Very belated thanks. I eventually just ended up using the Beetle Saturn core in Retroarch, which is based on Mednafen.
Completely unrelated, but those old Segata Sanshiro skits always make me chuckle. He was mascot done right and its such a shame he was never really shown here in the States.
I always got a kick out of him beating the hell out of children. Gotta live the Japanese.
You deserve like a million subs!
Man you are just turning out the content through this pandemic. Appreciate your videos man.
I just finished this video, and I gotta say, love your channel. I recently acquired a round button US Saturn. For the first few weeks, all I had was the three cardboard sleeve games it came with (Daytona USA, Virtua Cop, and Virtua Fighter 2). There are so many things to learn about the system I had the opportunity to buy when it came out, but got an N64 instead. In fact, I started importing games in general because of Sega Lord X
Very informative video and very sound analysis on the Saturn vs. PSX debacle.
Imagine this, Segata Sanshiro storms the stage and reveals the Dreamcast 2: no censorship, no greed baloney gambling, and no lazy cash grabs.
Paradise...
Love your Saturn content my friend, particularly the technical stuff. Back in the day I picked up the PS having lost trust in what Sega was doing. I just got my first Black, round button today, largely because of you enlightening me on the beauty of the Saturn. Plus, I’ve always loved hand drawn sprites over polygons! ✌🏽
In my group of friends back in the day only one of them had a Saturn. We'd play all the 2D fighters at his house because they ran way better.
Yeah... the sprites make me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
Polygons, not so much.
I read part of the trouble with developing for Saturn vs PS was the fact that Saturn's 3D Graphics architecture was based around using quads rather than tris, as in each face of the polygons had 4 sides instead of 3. If you've worked with 3D graphics recently, you know systems based around tris won out over quads, since they are more efficient, one less side and vert to worry about basically. I wasn't a developer at the time, so I don't know how the software worked back then, but since it was very early days, it was probably like choosing between VHS and Betamax, and this time Sony picked right.
Dude, this video is an EXCEPTIONAL resource of Saturn info. And very eloquently narrated as usual. A+ material. Cheers buddy.
10:35 - Aw, I was hoping to hear the subsequent "Game over yeeeeah!"
excellent work, as usual, thanks again for the contribution to the sega knowledge. Greetings from Argentina.
Great video slx. Thanks for using your platform to make these tid bits common knowledge
I Have a Brazilian Tec Toy White Saturn with mod chip. I bought very cheap 11 years ago and works pretty fine. In the future you could talk about the best methods to burn cds and the best way to preserve the optical lens. By the way, love the videos, Regards from Brazil!
7:50 I use a Genesis 2 RGB to Component cable from HD Retrovision running into a RetroTink 2X and then a mCable. Zero lag, but to get 1080p upscaling you have to have smoothing on. I love how crisp and clean the RetroTink + mCable make the Saturn look, but if you need the blocky pixel look, seek other options, though the Component cables at 240p still look amazing next to composite.
The HD Retrovision Genesis 2 cable is what I use for my Saturn, Genesis, and even my PC Engine via a Terra Onion Super SD System 3 (the PC Engine version of the Mega SD). This works great if you have nowhere to stick SCART.
I'm glad you are not dismissing emulation like some other people do. Retroarch for Saturn emulation also works pretty well.
I had the same problem with Outrun, Afterburner 2 and Space harrier. All didn't work on a white Japanese model 2 saturn. I bought a grey model 1 Saturn and no problem at all and now it works like a charm.
That means there's a problem with the motherboard in that white model that is causing a problem with the game. certain motherboard revisions also cause problems with the American and Pal versions of Need for Speed and maybe other games that no one noticed yet.
Sega! The Japanese Sega Saturn ads were great!
Great video. When I bought the black arcade stick, the first thing I did was swap out the ball top. I finally ordered the HSS-0104 stick today and I can't wait to try it out, since most of my Saturn library consists of arcade ports, mainly fighters.
Great job on the video SLX. I would warn about the Level Hike cable and its variable lag is been shown to have. It's not designed for gaming really. The Rad2X you showed off is the perfect entry level solution for video output.
Glad I stumbled upon this today. Just got a Saturn from Japan and have wanted to get a copy of OutRun for it. Happy to know I won’t be wasting cash when I get a copy!
This was a smart idea. Learned a lot, thanks!
Your channel is amazing. Best place for Saturn on TH-cam
Thanks for showing me my Magic Knight Rayearth is worth $1500. That, along with my Panzer Dragoon Saga being worth $1500. Holy schnikeys. I'm going to have to see what other gold I bought back in 1997, lol.
I love this type of video
i learned that the memory card plus cartridges were unreliable the hard way
We all did.
@@ronindebeatrice The biggest OOF I made when I started my Saturn collecting back in 2002/03.
14:12 lol the crazy damage Jacky busts out with just a crouch jab and 2 kicks
7:10 "Be cautious of what you jam into your [...] slot."
Wise words.
Ridiculously good video. Thanks for touching on hdmi cables for saturn.
Hahahha Love Segata choking out some kid at the end!!!🤣🤣👍 Great video as always!!
I recently got my first Saturn in yesterday. I played it at a friends house when I was a kid.....I'm still youngish. But man seeing this brick on my TV stand is amazing. Though I forgot to get a game so Virtua Cop 2 is on it's way but the main reason I got it was that it was a model 1 and I ordered a Fenrir.
Man you really the sega lord, great work!
Great video! I remember having a card that you could slot into the back of your Saturn, that would allow you to watch v-cds. The only one I ever had was the Street Fighter manga cartoon. Had some awesome games for that computer.
Shout out from 🏴
Great video as always and enlightening information! Well done, sensei!
Before buying an expensive device to hook your Saturn to a modern TV, try and borrow one and see for yourself how much better (if any) it does vs simply plugging the Saturn into legacy ports on your TV. Many modern TVs have great internal hardware for converting the signal to the display’s native resolution. Of course, many don’t. And some don’t even have a legacy port at all. But you might be spending money on a device merely does what the TV itself is quite capable of doing.
One of the best episodes, thanks man!
Thank you for covering the oddities of Sega Ages OutRun. I own the 1050A revision since I have a JP white Saturn. I didn't want to take any risks. From some digging I've done - only Japanese white Saturns have this issue with the 1050 version, but even then it depends on the motherboard VA revision. I believe all US/EU model 2 mobos are safe. Saturn has tons of VA mobo revisions compared to the Genesis.
The issue does come down to the motherboard revision. If your Saturn is a VA0-9, then both Sega Ages Outrun AND Space Harrier should work fine. The VA10 and onwards units integrate the sound hardware into a single IC, which causes issues with the first prints of those games. The Saturn wasn't produced for the western market for long, so there probably aren't that many problem consoles outside of Japan.
@@AceTrainerX3 the is definitely reassuring. I’m in Japan currently and just bought this game but I couldn’t open the game to check the disc code. Looking at it now it ends with an A but I use a US model 2VA7 so this means I should be good!
Just wanted to toss this out because it was really helpful to me. If you add timestamps, TH-cam will automatically put breaks in the timeline. Even if you don't want to timestamp the whole video, you can do important things like the close-up of the Gameshark pins vs. Sega memory card. I always have comments where people totally miss something important that I did actually mention, it just went by fast and they missed it.
I was literally just trying to figure out which Saturn emulator to use a couple of days ago. Your video just answered my question. thanks!
It truly comes down to software in most cases. If a system has the best stats but has Garbage games, it will fail. You are correct on every point here. Even the US fight stick. It uses membrane contact and a dome stick, and the sticks tend to bend. I have thought meany times about pad hacking mine into a new shell with Sanwa parts. Maybe one day soon.
Sega Ages Space Harrier supposedly has a similar issue to Outrun were there are two different versions and the older one fails on some Model 2s. I also have two versions of Altered Beast for PC Engine CD-ROM² where the newer one works with the Super System Card and the older one does not. The newer one has a large black dot printed on the disc near the title but the case and art don't have any difference I can see. The ring code is different, of course, but I can't recall off hand.
I use a RGB cable from Retro Gaming Cables with my OSSC in Line 3x mode and it makes Saturn games look gorgeous! Although if you only wanna play Sega Saturn the RAD2X is probably the best value. Great video as always SLX!
Another top video slx! I was one of those that emailed you a couple years back about outrun not working on my jp model 2. I ended up getting a second white Saturn after that and it works perfectly. I guess some of the model 2s just can’t play the game
that earthworm jim 2 was madness..i paid just $70 for a perfect copy..not sealed ok but $1500..lol...no way!!!! xD
I just checked Sega Retro along with various forums, and I can confirm that Sega Ages: Outrun does have some issues with certain Saturn consoles. Specifically, the VA10 and onward motherboards (and possibly the VA6/7) consolidated the sound block(which controls the CD Drive) into a since IC to reduce costs. This bugged out some 68000 commands, and any games that use those commands will lock up the Saturn. The first print versions of Outrun *and* Space Harrier are known to trigger this bug, so be on the lookout if you plan on collecting those two discs.
your videos are great and as a fellow SEGA fan I salute you
Another great video SLX! Just got into the Saturn thanks to you and I am loving every minute of it. Was always curious about how to play repros on my Japanese saturn so this video was quite helpful....now wondering where I can go to find repros outside of Etsy. Your tip on psuedo saturns is awesome but wondering if sellers show pictures of the actual boards to check for bevels and such.
16:38
My favourite part of this is that today, 3 years later, that misconception is very much alive and doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon.
So many people talk about Saturn emulation as this thing that barely works and/or requires cutting edge hardware to even work, when the real case is that as long as your PC was made around 2014-15, you will run most of the library without any issues whatsoever. Hell, I would argue that N64/PS2 emulation is in a way worse spot comparatively speaking, even if they have gotten much better in the last few years.
I think this channel deserves more subs.
The Ascii arcade stick for the saturn is by far the best stick for the system....i will even use it on my dreamcast...very solid and well made
My saturn is hooked up to the retrotink 2x scart and it looks fantastic
@@AlfaRomeoQ I'd rather play on a CRT via RF than most other options on a HDTV, tbh. Zero lag more than makes up for compromised audio/video.
@@AlfaRomeoQ I used to have my Playstation hooked up to a sony trinitron through scart but my trinitron broke around the start of the lockdown so I haven't had the chance to get another one
I can confirm that my Japanese copy of Outrun works on my Japanese model 1 Saturn but not on my Japanese model 2. Space Harrier is the same. This is a pain since my model 2 is my main Saturn. I need to get a copy of the P1K rom and burn a disk sometime. Those two games are the only ones I am aware of with this problem; certainly they are the only ones I've come across.
Thank you for mentioning SSF and emulation. I used SSF years ago and thought it ran flawless on a 2007 laptop
Saturn players should also look into the Retrotink 2X Pro for playing on a HDTV. You can use your existing cables to connect to it. Soon there will be a 2X mini with a lower price point and focus on composite/S-Video, lowering the cost barrier for usage. The RAD 2X is the same device just made into a single cable.
I really enjoy the black US/euro stick for playing panzer dragoon. I think the lack of microswitches, the small resistance and the big ball are good for simulating what could be a plane joystick.
"I think the argument isn't so much 'which hardware was more powerful' but 'which developer actually *had the skill to make the most impressive games'?"*
Holy shit, THANK YOU. The hardware arguments are always so stupid - for _every generation._ Why the hell do so many people discount the _talent behind the games they play_ so damn much? Do they just completely ignore the credits in their games? They think these machines just _will_ software into existence, lol?
ffs, not enough people will say something like this. Once again, you're proving to just be more thoughtful than 99% of schmucks covering games out there these days, SLX :)
I bought a Saturn that had what was left of a cart stuck in the slot. Only the PCB was left, all the plastic was missing. I am guessing that it broke when someone was attempting to remove the very stuck cartridge. Whatever cart it was (I believe) did region unlocking as the sole game that came with that system was a Japanese one. I managed to remove it carefully with a pair of pliers and the slot still works, but it definitely was a learning experience.
Be cautious of what you jam into the Saturn’s catridge slot... lesson learned....
Instructions unclear. Penis accident has occurred.
Great episode. One thing I did want to comment on was the power difference between the PS1 and Saturn.
I think a key difference here is how poor sega's third party development tools were at launch. Many programmers had to reverse engineer the system or write their own software to get the console to display 3d proficiently.
Some speculate sega kept the best software for internal projects because they didn't want to be outshone by third party Western developers.
Most developers didn't get access sega's revised and more powerful development software until late 95 / early 96, which meant we only ever really saw "2nd generation" software on the saturn. By this point most gamers had moved onto the PS1 or N64, so developers dropped saturn development- this is backed up by how little software was released on the saturn in 97: the console was on life support.
I always felt that the saturn was not on the market long enough to actually see the full potential of what the console could do with mature software. Look at PS1 games like Wip3out or R4- they looked almost as good as some PS2 games.
Although the saturn had a good run in Japan, these were mainly low budget games like fighters, shooters and J-RPG's.
As much as I love the saturn, I can't look past all the wasted potential.
With regards to CD burning, my understanding was that the CD copy protection and region lock are two separate things; that the Action Replay cart removes the region lock but a mod chip is required to remove the CD copy protection. Unless that has changed since I got my mod chip and Action Replay cart 15 years ago.
Another great video. Even back in the day I wasn't a fan of 3rd party accessories and didn't use them much if at all so my original hardware is still doing fine.
As for the discussion between which is the most powerful, the Saturn or the PS1, I think it's fair to say that both machines produced incredible titles, some of which couldn't appear the same way on both machines, but it certainyl felt more of a victory to the underdog that was that Saturn when it produced something special. Great video.
06:39 I have one of the modern red combined RAM expansion and memory card cartridges with PseudoSaturn on it. It didn't originally have the bevel, but I took a dremel and ground it down to a bevel.
I mean, Sega Saturn had the best Need for Speed 1. Imagine if 2 or Hot Pursuit were on the Saturn?
and had the best street racer
@Karl Burnett i don't know, it's kinda laggy compared to the ps1 and saturn versions.
I think I've only played NFS 2: Hot Pursuit, it came with my GameCube when I got it a few months ago, but it's an awesome game!
Karl Burnett sounds like someone hasn’t played the Java version of Need for Speed for the phones of the early 2000s
@Karl Burnett 3DO version is a very different beast with its own physics model, it's unique, I'll give it that. Other versions were much more arcady. I remember that 3DO one had higher resolution graphics than PS1 which had very grainy low res visuals but with much better framerate though, not sure how Saturn one compares
11:25 "It's Rage Racer! RAAAAAAAGE RACEEER!"
Nice one! Thank you!
Later releases of the saturn had an under utilised chip removed to cut costs. Outrun was the biggest offender of using it. The Japanese versions of the saturn were the only ones affected as the build dates when much later than the western versions. The p1k version was re written to run without the missing chip.
2 chips were combined into one, the SCSP and Motorola 68EC000. Combining functions into fewer chips saves costs. Console makers have been doing this for decades. Saturns with VA10 and later motherboards are affected. This includes some white Saturns, and even some late USA Saturns. You can tell by the serial number. The first digit (or 2) will be the manufacturer code, the second will be the year, such as 6 for 1996, the 3rd digit will be motherboard type..0-9 is good, but a letter means VA10 or later board. The combined chip introduced a bug which affects early Outrun & Space Harrier discs. The games were re-released with revised code to get around the problem.
@@jeremyf9124 I have a late saturn with a revised outrun p1k disc. Didn't realize space harrier was also affected.
Lots to say about one of the most mysterious consoles. It is a console shrouded in mystery, it always has been. I own my original I got right after surprise launch in 95. Yes. I learned the hard way. Be careful and mindful of what you put in any retro system. With these new modern repro carts I destroyed a 32x. The square edges destroy and crush pins.i file a slight bevel on them with a file.even a slight bevel helps tremendously. I took the rgb scart route with a relatively cheaper upscale. Make sure it is an upscaler and not just a hdmi adapter! But if you get a decent one,it will make the image a lot cleaner!!! I recommend some sort of upscaler. Fortunately mine only goes out for about 1 second when switching resolutions. Not to bad but as Sega Lord X said,some take much longer to switch resolutions. I do recommend a pseudo Saturn cart. I recently switched from my action replay to the pseudo Saturn. The reason was now I can play back up cds. .It loads up another boot program that ignores security and region code,where as replay only bypasses region. I do keep my action replay though because with my video card I can watch CD movies with it. Its really a novelty but its kinda cool. I might be able to play movies with the pseudo,if so I havnt figured it out yet.
5:21 The Hori Real Arcade VF stick is good too for shooters, and might be found cheap sometimes. Only 3 or 4 buttons though. I think it has microswitch joystick.
Now i have to watch the Sega Saturn commercial.
Unfortunately the framemeister isn't in production anymore, and it's tough to find listings under $650. On the other hand, the OSSC has become cheaper lately, running around $140 on videogameperfection rather than $200.
A crt is like 20€ and better than any scaling device
I modded mine with no prior experience. It was an easy and satisfying experience.
Thx for clarifying some myths....
Still the OSSC deserved to be better highlighted... Just my opinion... Keep up the great work
15:25 I like that it says it has none or all of the features lol
Not making a war console here, just a curiosity. Another problem i think with Saturn vs PS, is the use of Quad, instead of Triangles in PS to render the 3D. Another problem is the textures, is much more blocky than the PS1 and even today i don't know why. So the graphics are much more pixelated in TV. I remember seeing a lot of games(and not seeing the console) and I knew its a Saturn, just for the blocky presentation. i Love the Saturn and PS1. I'm sorry if I bothered you guys.
Another point to make about PS1 vs Saturn game quality, is multi-platform titles. Developers are always going to take the path of least resistance, to make their release date. The PS1's elegant design meant it was going to be the lead platform for many multi-plats.
Two Thumbs Up, Sir! Good stuff. =)
Its here....another video we need in these crazy times.
Stay safe gamers and sega people.
Does anyone think we will get a Saturn or dreamcast compilation ever on current or next generation?
Owning the Sega Saturn is questionable in of itself!! The console was behind the curve and it got found out by the new kid on the block - The PSX!
13:55 I forget how VF2 music is masterpiece,like 70s jazz-fusion with Chinese traditional melodies.
Find you a woman that loves you the way SEGA Lord X loves Sega Saturn... and I will tell you that you found the ONE!
Is it crazy that I still have my launch day US Sega Saturn, and never once used the Cartridge slot? Never bought any sort of memory expansion, and remember ignoring it when I found out it wasnt a Genesis/32x Cartridge slot. lol
I very much agree with your take on the power comparison between the Saturn and PlayStation. Sadly it feels a little unfair because the PlayStation seemed to have so much more 3rd party support overall to analyze, access and draw conclusions from, especially from western developers regarding its power. You have games like Omega Boost and Disruptor both which run at 60, Wipeout 3, Tekken 3, Crash and Spyro series, Colony Wars series, Gran Turismo 2, Chrono Cross etc. It's hard to find at least for me, Saturn games that we could use for comparison, even indirect comparison. But I still need to invest alot more time into Saturn gaming.
It's as you said though, talented devs make both of them shine, and they both released in 94? So they're in-arguably competitive with each other.
Alright, there's a myth that I need to bust.
In the Hunt on the Saturn is exactly the same as the arcade original, especially when compared to original M92 arcade pcb/hardware. IT IS THE ARCADE ACCURATE version.
They both suffer from tons of slowdown in the same places.
The Playstation version runs much faster, and the comparisons I hear are usually done with emulated versions of the arcade roms which also runs faster.
The Saturn version also has more of the arcades animation. In my experience though, it still slows down more than the arcade in places.
@@SegaLordX Honestly though seems like the same to me, I also have the M92 board and it's pretty much the same slowdown wise. That last stage is impossible to 1cc on the PS1 version due to itsx lack of slowdown.
@@SegaLordX Here's a good indication of how the board actually runs, not my video. You can clearly see the massive amount of slowdown here.
Most people draw comparisons to the emulated version of the arcade game on Mame.
th-cam.com/video/SQJC2RXIzgM/w-d-xo.html
Saturn in the hunt also had some wierd bug when booting from bios and a controller connected, it would freeze (at least my pal copy did) most of the time.
In "PAL Land" In the Hunt and Mortal Kombat 2 slowdown was (17%) worse!
@@SegaLordX Someone... should do a video about these wierd saturn hardware/software problems and nuances, like the Pal Croc bios boot bug in its almost like "Rayman" glory!
Thanks for the information. 😀👍🎮
The Retroarch core Kronos isn't bad for Saturn emulation
I'd recommend backing up Saturn games to the CHD format to save storage space too
Some of the developers from travelers tales, the people that made Sonic R. Said that the SEGA Saturn was more powerful than the PS1.
02:12 Carded G1 minibots! Noice.
Been loving your videos! I’ve been a Mednafen user and evangelist for years now. It’s so good! I have a tech question: what settings do you prefer for your visuals? I normally use the “goat” shader and the “supereagle” special settings together and the results look surprisingly sharp and upscaled nicely on 1080p screens. Any configuration tips?
Yeah the saturn is an interesting console in the fact that before you even get into it that it's smart to do a bit of research on it because there's quite a bit to learn
Thanks for letting us know about the Japanese arcade stick being loads better. I might try to take the shell from the US one and put Japanese parts inside. Then it might get some use.
Those Sega ads are hilarious
No love for Yaba Sanshiro?
Yeah I've got it on an Nvidia shield and it pumps out hd 60hz gameplay. Best way to play. I backed all my CDs onto an SD card and it beats the original hardware in terms of convenience and performance. I've tried retroarch, but it seems a little behind in terms of save states, and maybe transparency. Yaba Sanshiro seems to convert most meshes to transparency if I remember correctly.
There were complaints from developers that they simply didn't have the same development libraries that Sega's first-party teams had, which meant they had a harder time getting acceptable performance or good visuals out of the Saturn. The PlayStation was favoured across the industry and had the sales figures to back it up, so most cross-platform titles were ported from the PlayStation and not the other way around. That was difficult enough, without trying to code to the strengths of the Saturn without any real help from Sega... so there's little wonder that a lot of these games looked worse.