For all the electric motor downers here sailors like Lin and Larry Pardey sailed for 30 years without an engine. If your situational awareness, or lack thereof, gets you into situations where only an engine will save you then sooner or later the engine will fail. I know black swan events happen however in most cases proper route planning and seamanship are better safety companions than an over reliance on an engine no matter what the fuel source.
Yeah well the places they go thats not always possible, its quite possible to get a super efficient low emission diesel motor instead of using something that possible could let you down in the worse possible time.
They have only done one small trip with the new system. With all the planing it still didn't work. Luckily there was a dock to tie up to and not a reef to be pushed onto. The sailers who sailed the world without engine, went past most of Australia, Indonesia and anywhere along the equator. You can't safely sail these areas without an engine. Strong currents and sometimes no wind for days, deep water till you hit the reef. No planing will get you in over a bar and up a river in Borneo without an engine. We try to always sail and have sailed 20,000+m through these regions. All up we would have spent less than $1000 on diesel. I'd rather do that than miss out on some of the best cruising grounds.
Ok How many got stuck in bad weather or no weather at all just sitting Idle for days or weeks? ? Your only mentioning "Lin and Larry Pardey" Im not a sailor but soon will be. I am however a engineer and the electric motor is 10 years away from being perfect for a boat. It needs all the associated charging to come up to par (wind,Solar and sea charging)
I don’t usually comment on channels, but I feel I have to. You guys are fabulous and what you do is amazing, going electric seems to work fine for what you do and you clearly check all the angles. Why do all those people negative about electric motors have to gravitate around your channel to spit their frustration while being stuck behind their desks instead of living the dream, is something that eludes me. There should be enough channels with Diesel engines to keep them happy, but no they have to tell you about how they know how it won’t work. Well in the meantime it works :-) ... which I guess adds to the frustration. Keep going, there are people that love you ,respect you and admire you, but I guess any sunny day has its loads of bugs flying around ;-) keep the fun going and ignore the bugs
I have been watching you since the beginning of your adventure. Back then the naysayers were telling you it would never work, that you would give up and go back to mom and dad. You proved them all wrong but it seems that a large number of people who love to hear themselves talk just don"t get it. Push on kids, Do not be discouraged, I love what you are doing. Push the envelope. Try new things, screw the box, think outside of everything. If you don"t find the answer you will inspire someone who will.
You guys are early adopters - the type that humanity has needed to move on from the stone age! Love the electric motor thing which with the lithium batteries and some proper cooling (get a bigger fan direct drive from the motor!) will give you enough range. With a wind generator you'd be able to charge nite time too. Congratulations!
Well done Dan and Kika, great system that you've put together working well! Completely sold on electric motors for sail boats, showing how it can be done and used for what motors should be used for (on a boat that's mainly for sailing.) Thank you!
Go for it., Let the nay-sayers have their say but do NOT let them steal your dream. They are not making the decisions you two have nor are they going on anything other than armchair adventures. As you get more proficient in sailing techniques and live aboard experiences, you'll be able to handle more and more challenges. You've come a long way and have so much farther to still go. Enjoy the journey. Continue to live your dream.
I'm always SO happy when I see a new video from you guys! You're such inspirations. Also, Kika, I'm still VERY stoked for the ladies night videos! Can't wait for the first one. Much love you two! -Maya
Great video thanks for showing us how Uma pushed beeker through it paces in an extended sailing session. Great to have such an awesome lithium battery bank to support Uma now. Another super shout out to Last Catamarans for all the Uma Angel support for access to their shop to make so much of this refit happen. Cheers!
We are excited about your testing, and the data is proving positive! Cooling isn't a problem,...not for a pair of Steppers like your selves . Safe travels.
Keep in mind that you can water cool the field windings but the armature still heats from resistive heat loss and magnetic hysteresis losses from the changing magnetic field in the iron. Consider making openings in the end plate of the motor to force air through the motor, like is commonly done with an electric drill. A blower will push more air through the small spaces than a fan.
I love the story so far. I just found you guys, and I'm getting some good ideas from your travels. I can't see what happens. I haven't gotten to the current videos, yet, but I have some thoughts. Adding some aluminum cooling fins to the motor, and routing your venting fans to pass over the motor would do a lot for increasing the thermal efficiency of the system. Instead of running water cooling lines over the motor, you could make a copper coil and blow the air from one of the vent fans through the copper coil to help cool the air before it passes over the motor. Happy sailing.
I just found your channel. I enjoy your chemistry. You are very knowledgeable about the things you research. I want to mention some things for you to ponder - you don't have to explain it. I apologize if you've already covered them. Think about the heat your motor transfers to the cradle. Baked fiberglass is no fun. LiFe batteries allow a safe 80% draw without damage. When you say you drew 25%, was that of total capacity, or 'usable' [80%] capacity. All my best to you, Kika & Dan.
Hey guys! I found your channel a couple of weeks ago and I love what you are doing. I love electric motors and I own an electric car myself. About your problem with the motor heating, you may solve this either by replacing your motor for a larger one or by adding a 2:1 reduction. It seems counter intuitive, but the reduction will enable your motor to reach higher torque with lower current. Because that, you car reach higher speeds because the motor will work within its optimal performance envelope, with lees heat. I know you guys had a noisy unpleasant experience with the chain transmission, but I think that was mostly due to the old Diesel transmission than the chain itself. I hope my comments may be useful. I plan to get my own electric sailboat someday. Thanks for being my inspiration. Cheers!
First off, Kiki's hair IS amazing! Dan, nice work on the motor! I bet that was cool to run that long and have it not freak out. Great video. Kiki - how do you hold that camera so steady? I seriously thought it was locked off. Anyhoo, thanks for the hang on the boat! F
Love the electric motor. We use a trolling motor on our 22 foot trailer able yacht. Liquid cooling seems like it would be a good upgrade to keep efficiency up. Keep it up guys.
my trolling motor does 3 knots. my solar panel charges it about as fast as it drains. It was $300...26 foot Grampian. great lakes....what did I leave out... 1 deep cycle battery, I've never drained it all the way. that's my back up motor, usually I use my 4.5 horse single cylinder mercury, I used $30 in gas for this entire summer. I love sailing.
As one who has built a couple electric cars, and an electric outboard for my 26ft sailboat, I would add what some have said about cooling and temp, the motor is getting too hot, those forklift motors are great for short-term use, and for our cars, batteries never lasted more than an hour, so was never a concern. OEM cars use more efficient motors and cooling and can run forever. Cooling the outside of the case isn't effective for this motor, you need to pass cool air inside the motor past the rotor windings. The salty air is a concern, but don't waste time on water cooling the outside. Best is to use a permanent magnet motor with built-in water cooling. Keep up the great work, love to watch the videos.
No wind and a 3+ knot current against you is why you need a strong reliable motor that can push the boat for hours without resting. Between islands, reefs or crossing bars is a lot different to a canal or river. My Yanmar 30hp only uses ~2 litres per hour at 6 knots, so it's very economical and can run for days on a single tank.
Great test run guys! Remember the sun delivers 8.000 times more energy to Motherwell Earth than we use. So going electric is the way forward! We all Will be following your example in the next years to come. Also the sceptics! Cheers from Rotterdam, the Netherlands.
the engine on your dingy could have gotten you that extra bit while towing from the front but not being in a rush is always an advantage. Love your videos very much they have helped to get me through a rather awful time. I was wondering how you two like your new electric motor set up. is it working better than this old motor? Hope you are both doing well take care!
I think running the cooling lines on the electric motor is a very good idea, the cooler you can keep it the better it is going to work. Although I think the best route is going to be to have a fresh to raw type setup like you have on a petrol engine with a sea strainer and all that jazz. Really all you need is a tank for the coolant, and then have a larger diameter tube run through it this will prevent the system from clogging. I might pop off a drawing of what I have in mind and send it to you.
I did not know until yesterday that you are all electric. That is fantastic. Very quiet, best packaging and reliability. And you can have a generator for more Range. I wonder why not all boats have electric motors driving the prop, with a diesel generator providing electricity and heat for all kinds of uses onboard.
Great test for the new setup! Personally I'd stay away from liquid cooling. I just get very nervous getting liquid of any type around electricity. Even if it IS dc. I'd try ducting first. A simple plywood box around the motor that you connect the fan on. You air closer to where it's needed for cooling. I'd also install a sending unit and readout around the helm, preferably with an adjustable alarm. I'm following your progress closely so "hopefully" I don't make mistakes that cost me. $$$$$ 😎
Dan, with the motor getting around 200 degrees, you might want to install a thermal barrier mat between the fiberglass mount and the motor mounts. This will give you some thermal protection between the motor and the hull mounts. Also mounting some cooling fins with some forced air would also help.
So I know these videos are delayed but if you are thinking about liquid cooling you might be able to do it passively. Ie warm water rises... , as the water wrapped around motor (i guess in a coil or some other type of heat exchange) rises it siphons in cool water thus taking heat from motor with it as it exiting the boat...keep hot side physically high, cool side low... I use this principle to heat my hot water for my house in the winter when my outdoor wood boiler is running and works great and saves me from running another water pump on my hot water heater. Love yalls diy stuff!
I was just thinking... You're good with fiberglass: mount a fan blade to the front of the motor where the shaft exits and build a fiberglass shroud around the motor with exhaust outlets you vent outside. That, along with heatsinks / fins on the exterior might keep you cool. :)
To cool your motor more efficient you can bolt om aluminium cooling fins directly to your motor. Also direct the airflow directly over the motor. That is more efficient than just ventililating your enginebay.
Saw you hauling anchor chain by hand..obviously no anchor winch at present. An interim or emergency solution is a two chain hooks spliced to two separate lines led back to a sheet or other winch. Two because they are used turn and turn about without the need to secure chain between each retrieval.😁
Thank you guys, and Gals .. been house bound since 2004. Going nuts .. Now you have inspired me to get the hell out of Australia. Give up the house dream.. something that Australians no longer dream about or aspire to since the Asian and Indian buy up of all our real estate. ( so sad we sold out our culture ) ..
I think you should play with the prop pitch to make sure you get the best efficiency from the electric motor. Also, realize that you have an outboard motor sitting on a mount doing nothing. A more creative mount could make the dinghy motor available for main engine power.
You guys could get a gas generator to for emergencies to power your motor. That's actually how a lot of high end hybrids cars work. That way you get the best of both worlds when you need it. Also a gas generator is probably easier to service than a diesel motor and services duel purpose to charge your batteries.
Might I suggest finding out “once again” how far the batteries can be depleted. From my experience with lithium ion batteries in RC once down to 0 percent the battery is done. I usually go to 20% available and recharge. The other thought would be a stern bracket for your dingy motor to be used in an emergency. Thank you for the segments. Your presentation and videography is excellent.
I'm wondering if adding aluminum or copper heat sink fins to the motor casing would help dissipate the heat. And you could use copper coils and circulate sea water through those fins.
Two thoughts: 1) I worry about 300F real close to your fiberglass hull more than I do the motor itself. How much heat is being conducted to your hull through the mounts? Are your mounts temperature safe? I seem to recall that your batteries are self-protecting, so you should be safe. 2) As a first step, I would improve the air-cooling of the motor by wrapping with sheet aluminum, and extending the aluminum sheet off the motor into fins: a simple radiator. That, combined with your compartment fan would dissipate a lot of heat. Others have suggested water cooling to create hot water for bathing. A great idea, but gets complicated quick when you are sure not to overheat your holding tank, etc. Can't wait to see how you work this out. Good luck, fair winds, and safe travels.
They could just attach cpu cooling fins. I have PC's that use passive cooling for the video cards and I've seen the cooling fins being sold as individual parts. I've even seen copper fins every now and then.
My concern is the battery terminals melting and acting like a fuse, are they still using the lead acid or lithium, have not caught up on all the changes. I personally do not like the dual battery requirement to generate a field that allows the motor to work, a ETEK style permanent magnet is better. This style or the MANTA would be 75% more efficient th-cam.com/video/t9Uog4udldQ/w-d-xo.html
I was thinking the same thing strap aluminum fins to motor and duct the fan to pull over them should greatly improve heat dissipation. Props to you for going with electric motor and sharing your thoughts and experiences.
Could you put a permanent fan on the other side of the motor (to that visible shaft) either to suck air away from the engine compartment or push fresh air in?
Fans take current , are noisy and the cooling relies on air temp that can be quite high above outside down below on a sun drenched boat , plus then the heat can be uncomfortable for the people . I say a simple coil wrapped around the motor with a tiny pump to raw water to cool it . Water temp is more stable , quieter and not so invasive .Could use the old engine intake and any drain through hull . Maybe out a cockpit drain so you have visual confirmation of flow . I would then put a few fans to cool the batteries on a stat . As the batteries go dead the current and heat will spike in both the motors and the batteries , and the cables but the cables should be OK as they were sized properly . Many store bought electric boat motors are submersible for the natural cooling it provides . That is also why submersible pumps at your home last longer .
Great vid. So glad you're promoting the message about not being in a hurry. You must have pretty thick skin to put up with all those who poo poo'd the electric using the justification of having to get to a destination in a hurry. Stay safe! :-)
Use thermal paste when attaching water cooling tubes, it really helps transfer heat and dissipate it. Maybe even add cooling fins to the water cooling as well. Can never have too much cooling on electric motors. (Unless it’s like waaaay cold)
I'm just trying to think of how you could get more revs from you Propshaft as compaired to the Engine Revs. But then you have the Prop itself and possibility of cavitateing the prop. Or getting a higher thrust production prop. I've said it in the past, that max speed of six knots gives me the heebies. F.W.F>S.
Sold lift trucks and other heavy equipment for many years. Yours is a novel idea. Normally I would not be very concerned about the motor heat as I would be about draining into the deep cycle of your batteries. By that I mean the last 20ish percent of power. The reason for that is that it creates heat which tends to boil off water in the cells warping the zinc plates and throwing off acid ratios. If you are forced to use this power often you will kill your battery life. Suggest getting a meter to check acid levels every so often. Torque in pushing against waves to windward will be interesting. I'll try to be positive and keep my fingers crossed it works out. Happy trails
Good stuff.. I love it .. We use victron too and .. had the same prediction at the first time. The Victron does predict the power correct if it’s set correct so maybe you can adjust something or it needs to learn. Another thing to think about is that the Tide does delay up on rivers..
I would consider enclosing one end of the motor in a sealed box and venting that with the inline fan so that cooling air is draw *through* the motor rather than blown over it.
I think Id be looking at some shielding to protect the hull because thats still pretty hot ,,, and it sounds like you understand the benefits cooling would have on the motor efficiency so I will leave that alone Pearson 365s with the stock WB 4108 come with two 4" hose engine blower which runs both sides of the fuel tank and exits aft of the lazarette with what look like 2 low profile dorade vents. All that matters is you make the best of the hose area for best CFM have a good one
Diesels don't run at 300 degrees F. They run 150 to about 200. I know of diesel propusion engines like the Cat. 3208 with over 16,000 hours pushing 25 to 35 tons with no major repairs. Cool that electric motor! Get it proped right and that alone will help the motor run cooler longer. Do you have a generator on board? It can supliment the batteries and increase running time dramaticaly. I hope your prop shaft is not coupled directly to the electric motor. Those forklift motors were not designed with thrust bearings. Be prepared for multiple bearing failures if you don't connect the prop shaft to a thrust bearing or a transmission and take the stress off the electric motor's shaft bearings. What lubricates the electric motor's shaft bearings? Moving 5 to 8 tons is asking a lot from that repurposed forklift motor. It never had to work that hard in fork lift. Now that I've raised some ugly issues I want you to know I want you to be safe. You're my favorite sailing channel and I wish you two the best. If you don't have a genset, get one. At least it could save you in an emergancy.
I lost my butt investing in a marine electric propulsion company and they are now gone, but they did have some really cool concepts. I sure will have electric in any boats I ever sail. Right now, I just have a trolling motor on a 18 footer, but I have a steel ketch to refit and sail one day. One cool concept was regenerative motor sailing. They had a computer switch between drive and charge in a seaway. They installed some, It would be interesting to know if it really worked. Thanks for all the info! Fair winds!
I know it’s heresy but have you considered adding a genset to the equation? I’d be worried about being off a lee shore with depleted batteries and broken rig. My diesel tank gives me 300 miles of auxiliary comfort. 15 miles seems awfully thin.
You could have launched the dinghy and used it to tug her up the river but you are going to need more than that if you get dismasted and blown towards rocks. You need a bigger motor and some more batteries plus a way to use the outboard in emergencies if you want to stay safe.
Motor heath, would suggest to search for a forced ventilator, which can be driven by the electric motor itself. You probably can find one which fits in the elevator industry . Just blowing air into the rotor will cool it down significantly ,
Dan I think your thoughs about liquid cooling are right direction. Even weekest liquid cooling is better then air because it is isolator. Getting liquid cooling is MUCH more quiet then fan cooling. Computer geeks use liquid because it is less annoing. Plus fact that you can use car cooling liquid which has temperature of boilng up to 223°F. I would recomend oil cooling because you can get boilin point at 572 F or more (even if oil is much worse conductor then water) but when your fluid coat woud leak, oil should not demage your engine. Oil is used in condensator as isolator. Use working solutions, heat to oil, oil to (air or water). Like in a car.
Hay guys, Great video, thanks for sharing. Suggestions - mount that blower up on the cockpit cowling, route the duct down and blow cool air on the motor. Will do much more cooling of the motor and also help cool compartment. Also, mount a retractable outboard motor bracket on the transom so you can use that nice dinghy motor to assist when needed. Can save your bacon or just help out during long runs. Cheers, John H. B.C. Canada
To lazy to read all the comments so here are a few thoughts. Maybe with a closed loop system you could use the heat you are generating with the motor to heat up water for showers? OR You should be able to design a self circulating system with sea water to help keep the temps down, make physics do the work in stead of losing energy to a pump. Based on watching your channel your sailing skills show that you obviously don't "need" the motor. Keep experimenting!
Dan, it may be that the program is set up for lead acid batteries, looking at a max/perferred 50% discharge. Run for 1 hr. use 25%= 1hr at 25% left....
I guess if you can't change that parameter you might want to put a conversion formula on your chalkboard...75%=2/3 power remaining, 50%=1/3 power remaining, but that will vary with % throttle... ah-oh, this is getting complicated... or you spend the time and work it out mathematically and create your own power curve...have fun with that...
So lots of posts on the pros and cons of electric motors . To be clear electric motors are by far the best , quiet , efficient , powerful and low maintenance . It is the batteries that suck . No one really has any problem with the motor , barring Uma that made their own set up and they nearly have it . I think the best set up is electric with a gen set that can extend range and run other stuff as needed like water makers or recharge batteries while on the hook after a spell of bad weather . Solar these days can run just about everything , but it is short on running propulsion . In an ideal world the gen set is rarely needed but there if you want to explore a river or canal . .
Do you have permanent magnet motor? If you have, it is especially important to keep the engine cool because otherwise the magnets get demaged. Maybe a smaller prop diameter would help.
I would think a blower pushing fresh air around the motor would help a lot.. The only time you should really need that much amperage though is to get into a difficult harbor in difficult conditions. Have you looked into a more efficient DC motor? And have you researched the prop size and pitch that will work best with the motor's torque and efficiency RPM curve? You might be able to pick up considerable efficiency with just a different prop.
With the open ended shaft of the rotor, would it be worthwhile to insert a shaft with a fan? Understanding that you are loosing a fair amount of power because of heat, would this help offset the loss?
Adding water cooling would be the best, but consider some aluminum heatsinks. You can make your own for very little$. Just get some Alum sheet and either make 'donuts' to wrap around the motor or bend into a many pointed star to go around and fasten. Use a heat conductive grease like that used to on computer heat sinks. Then with only the blow motor you have making some circulation you should see a drop in temp. Even more air flow will show better results.
Hi guys, I was just hoping I could ask some questions please I am a super duper MAGA huge fan if that helps you decide if I can 😇 1/ where did the term "Elected beke" come from 2/ Are you intending on replacing your foot rail? 3/ Does your new dinghy cover the 2nd route in and out of your cabin in case of fire and such or is there a way around this problem I don't know about (which is likely as I'm yet to own a boat)! Also Id just like to take this opportunity to tell you what a huge inspiration you are to me I love that you have a realistic boat for your needs and you just pretty much went I know you did a lot of work first but you still went asap! Your cool 😎
I would take a wild guess that the hotter you run the motor the shorter its life. Id put a few turns of water pipe on it with an electric pump - precautionary principle... 50% is the max you can draw out right, as with leadacid, unless you are desperate... Always good to see your vids ..
@@SailingUma oh cool, or is that hot! Oh wow pretty funky batteries! Havent heard of such a deap cycle before. Interesting to see how they go. Should be pretty reliable id imagine. I like reading all the ideas people gave to improve the efficiency. There is a lot of care and concern out there. Its a fun and inspiring project obviously. We would all have our own concoction of cooling gizmos and monitors stuck on the motor ha ha. Perhaps the batteries or cables may need cooling too? But it will all come out in the wash as its tested to its limits. All great fun.
The difference in "time remaining" may be caused by the rate of your drains. If you had a "100 amp" rated battery bank, that's 100 amps taken over 20 hours. The same battery bank might only be good for 60 amps if drained in eight or ten hours, and 40 amps if drained in an hour or two. Under heavy load the internal battery chemistry interfers with itself and prevents full power from being available.
If we had lead acid yes, But with Lithium, they don't rate them like that. 100A mean 100A no matter how fast you discharge them. 1A for 100hr or 100A for 1 hr, doesn't matter. The problem we found was that the battery monitor was set to a 50% discharge limit.
Even with lithium, there is some curve. I don't see any mention of it from Battleborn but CALB rates their 180ah cells at the 0.3c discharge rate, reducing them to 90ah @ 0.5c ! That's literally cutting the capacity in half. Your mis-set meter may not be the whole issue, try asking BB for some capacity-vs-load ratings, every manufacturer has them.
Same as last time. Our projects are 90% planning 7% try and fail and only about 3% actually doing. We usually only show that last 3%. When we do the work, you'll see it in a video. Promise.
Class H is plenty. 900V F1 hybrid motors are Class H.... Be aware that there is a temperature/time ageing characteristic on insulation systems though. On brushed motors, keeping an eye on your brush temperatures is often the limiting factor.... Blowing air is a great plan though, doesn’t need much.
You guys rock! I'm sure having some hard numbers on the engine feels good and a 15 mile radius is great! How long would it take to charge 75% of your battery capacity on an average sunny day? Also I'd like to officially vote for Dan to grow his hair out!😁😎
I don't know what solar panels they have but if it's around 300W (rough approximation from the image on their website) they would need 50 hours of direct sunlight to charge 75 percent of the battery bank capacity. So, if it's contentiously sunny and they spent their days adjusting the panels to align perfectly throughout the day the shortest time would be about a week.
We don't really plan on using solar to charge from such a deep discharge. In reality, we sail everywhere, and use our motor VERY sparingly. We would normally use about 5-10% from off shore to anchored, that we can get back in a day or two of good sun, and that includes our daily loads (fridge, laptops etc). If we needed to motor longer we'd just tie up to a dock for the night and charge back up. We can fill our bank from 25% in about 8-10hr. In the long run, we're hoping to get good regen, so if we need to motor out from anchorage to ocean a long way, we can then sail for a few days and charge back up. But that may require a different motor altogether.
Dan, I've been following you since you started. You have made some great strides in preparing your boat to really do some sailing. I only have one thing I'm trying to understand. What is your objective. Work on a boat or sail. I'd love to talk to you guys but not on TH-cam. I have a lot of experience technically and sailing. I've restored two boats. A 32 and a 37 foot sailboat. I'm probably wasting my time, but I have offered.
Sailing Uma With 4 days to top up without (that's with sun) a doc. It could be dangerous to sail Asia and around the equator (common to have little or no wind for a day or 3, as you can be near reefs, strong currents, no wind. = no boat. Often to deep to anchor there till your on the reef.
Richard dackas .... this system is great for afternoon sails or going out for a day on the weekend. But would not work for long distances. I suggest they up the dingy outboard to 25hp so the sailboat can be towed....... for coastal cruising.
You might investigate retrofitting some PC liquid cooling hardware for your motor casing. It's possible you could liquid cool the motor for very little current draw.
I'm going through an electric conversion right now on my Pearson. Two 10kw motors on the shaft for 20kw peak output. Rarely will I run at peak (if ever); the two 10kw motors won't work as hard and won't run as hot, thus no need for liquid cooling. I really hope to avoid the thermal efficiency issue. My boat is a P35, slightly smaller and lighter than your P365. By the way, I totally envy your battery config. Still drooling.
Sounds like you might have one of the kits from Electric Yacht? They make some quality stuff. 20kW will probably cause cavitation long before you peak out. But agree with the lack of cooling needed. A motor upgrade is on our list.
Sounds like the motor has inverter duty windings, this gives a bit of a false sense of security because although the windings can take the heat the bearings almost certainly will not. Especially when thrust loads are being exerted on them. Only a true thrust bearing will protect the motor from those loads (no matter what the manufacturers say) at the very least I would add a couple heat sink bands to the motor to help reduce the heat. Most motor shops will have these readily available. I'm in the process of upgrading to electric propulsion on my sailboat. I have a dedicated outboard for backup. Putting a outboard mount on the stern and using the dinghy motor would provide the same effect.
I don't know if you ever read these comments, but if you can charge your batteries while running they will last longer. Taking them down so much shortens the life of them. Plus you have more power from fully charged batteries, and much less as the percentage goes down
Hi guys!! Welcome to Lauderdale! We’re just down the river from you (we’re in your video at 14:07🤗) Saw you were at Sailorman too. Would love to grab a beer with you this weekend if you’re still in town!
I know that for radio controlled vehicules, we can buy heatsink to keep our motor cool, I dont know if they make heatsinks for that size of motor... but that could be an idea, coupled with a fan, it definitely keep the motor cooler, but I dont know how much cooler it would keep it...
Good test of batteries and motor run time, decent. Have you tested running the motor( slowly) on the solar alone so that you could work you way thru the doldrums and the like? Could you attach a fan blade to the motor shaft for direct cooling or would that draw away power from the motor drive? Cheers Warren
Just some thoughts that come to mind: - Is your motor rated for continuous duty? If not, it may only be rated for 15 minute intervals. - Increased temperatures reduce the life expectancy of a motor. The less you heat your motor, the longer it will last. - Are there any electronics in the motor compartment that could be damaged by increased temperatures? 200+ degrees is a lot of heat in a small space.
Curious as to why you did not anchor and wait for slack water? Curious also as to your motives and objectives going 'electric'.? How much current does all the monitoring electronics draw. Is there some protective device in case of a fouled prop..sheer pin or the like?
The winding's insulation might handle the temp but i'd be worried about the bearing temp and what its going to do to the grease. 268 deg f, heck you could boil water on that motor, the bigger the part the more it expands. like .001" for every 100 deg you go up in temp. Please use some type of cooling.
What a fantastic video do you think 2 more solar panels will help you could make them so they fold down each side of the 2 you already have ? Thanks again Grimsby uk
in an engine cooling scenario its always best to simply go with the best cooling solution, as it eliminates the possibility and worry of an overheat. Ambient temperatures is a real issue, The heat from the air as well as the reflected heat from the engine itself. do yourselves a favor and switch to the water cooling.
Hey guys, how are you doing ? Why don't you figure it out a way to use a heater exchanger or just wrap your motor with narrow copper tubes and heat a water tank for shower ? Cheers
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For all the electric motor downers here sailors like Lin and Larry Pardey sailed for 30 years without an engine. If your situational awareness, or lack thereof, gets you into situations where only an engine will save you then sooner or later the engine will fail. I know black swan events happen however in most cases proper route planning and seamanship are better safety companions than an over reliance on an engine no matter what the fuel source.
I was in the process of this kind of comment referring to the Pardey’s when I saw your comment. Very well said!👍
Yeah well the places they go thats not always possible, its quite possible to get a super efficient low emission diesel motor instead of using something that possible could let you down in the worse possible time.
They have only done one small trip with the new system. With all the planing it still didn't work. Luckily there was a dock to tie up to and not a reef to be pushed onto. The sailers who sailed the world without engine, went past most of Australia, Indonesia and anywhere along the equator. You can't safely sail these areas without an engine. Strong currents and sometimes no wind for days, deep water till you hit the reef. No planing will get you in over a bar and up a river in Borneo without an engine. We try to always sail and have sailed 20,000+m through these regions. All up we would have spent less than $1000 on diesel. I'd rather do that than miss out on some of the best cruising grounds.
Ok How many got stuck in bad weather or no weather at all just sitting Idle for days or weeks? ? Your only mentioning "Lin and Larry Pardey" Im not a sailor but soon will be. I am however a engineer and the electric motor is 10 years away from being perfect for a boat. It needs all the associated charging to come up to par (wind,Solar and sea charging)
JED!! PM us your address. You my friend, get a free t-shirt!
I don’t usually comment on channels, but I feel I have to. You guys are fabulous and what you do is amazing, going electric seems to work fine for what you do and you clearly check all the angles. Why do all those people negative about electric motors have to gravitate around your channel to spit their frustration while being stuck behind their desks instead of living the dream, is something that eludes me. There should be enough channels with Diesel engines to keep them happy, but no they have to tell you about how they know how it won’t work. Well in the meantime it works :-) ... which I guess adds to the frustration. Keep going, there are people that love you ,respect you and admire you, but I guess any sunny day has its loads of bugs flying around ;-) keep the fun going and ignore the bugs
You've done so much work in and out of your boat it's almost like it's new.
I have been watching you since the beginning of your adventure. Back then the naysayers were telling you it would never work, that you would give up and go back to mom and dad. You proved them all wrong but it seems that a large number of people who love to hear themselves talk just don"t get it. Push on kids, Do not be discouraged, I love what you are doing. Push the envelope. Try new things, screw the box, think outside of everything. If you don"t find the answer you will inspire someone who will.
You guys are early adopters - the type that humanity has needed to move on from the stone age! Love the electric motor thing which with the lithium batteries and some proper cooling (get a bigger fan direct drive from the motor!) will give you enough range. With a wind generator you'd be able to charge nite time too. Congratulations!
World needs more pioneers such as you two. That drives the development further.
Well done Dan and Kika, great system that you've put together working well! Completely sold on electric motors for sail boats, showing how it can be done and used for what motors should be used for (on a boat that's mainly for sailing.) Thank you!
Keep forging the path, guys! Really cool to see you put her to the test.
Go for it., Let the nay-sayers have their say but do NOT let them steal your dream. They are not making the decisions you two have nor are they going on anything other than armchair adventures. As you get more proficient in sailing techniques and live aboard experiences, you'll be able to handle more and more challenges. You've come a long way and have so much farther to still go. Enjoy the journey. Continue to live your dream.
I'm always SO happy when I see a new video from you guys! You're such inspirations. Also, Kika, I'm still VERY stoked for the ladies night videos! Can't wait for the first one. Much love you two! -Maya
Man, I wish I had your technical knowledge!!
Dan's the man!!!
Great video thanks for showing us how Uma pushed beeker through it paces in an extended sailing session. Great to have such an awesome lithium battery bank to support Uma now. Another super shout out to Last Catamarans for all the Uma Angel support for access to their shop to make so much of this refit happen. Cheers!
We are excited about your testing, and the data is proving positive! Cooling isn't a problem,...not for a pair of Steppers like your selves . Safe travels.
Keep in mind that you can water cool the field windings but the armature still heats from resistive heat loss and magnetic hysteresis losses from the changing magnetic field in the iron.
Consider making openings in the end plate of the motor to force air through the motor, like is commonly done with an electric drill. A blower will push more air through the small spaces than a fan.
I love the story so far. I just found you guys, and I'm getting some good ideas from your travels. I can't see what happens. I haven't gotten to the current videos, yet, but I have some thoughts. Adding some aluminum cooling fins to the motor, and routing your venting fans to pass over the motor would do a lot for increasing the thermal efficiency of the system. Instead of running water cooling lines over the motor, you could make a copper coil and blow the air from one of the vent fans through the copper coil to help cool the air before it passes over the motor. Happy sailing.
I just found your channel. I enjoy your chemistry. You are very knowledgeable about the things you research. I want to mention some things for you to ponder - you don't have to explain it. I apologize if you've already covered them. Think about the heat your motor transfers to the cradle. Baked fiberglass is no fun.
LiFe batteries allow a safe 80% draw without damage. When you say you drew 25%, was that of total capacity, or 'usable' [80%] capacity. All my best to you, Kika & Dan.
Hey guys! I found your channel a couple of weeks ago and I love what you are doing. I love electric motors and I own an electric car myself. About your problem with the motor heating, you may solve this either by replacing your motor for a larger one or by adding a 2:1 reduction. It seems counter intuitive, but the reduction will enable your motor to reach higher torque with lower current. Because that, you car reach higher speeds because the motor will work within its optimal performance envelope, with lees heat. I know you guys had a noisy unpleasant experience with the chain transmission, but I think that was mostly due to the old Diesel transmission than the chain itself. I hope my comments may be useful. I plan to get my own electric sailboat someday. Thanks for being my inspiration. Cheers!
Really great episode with a lot of important information, thanks for documenting this experience!!
First off, Kiki's hair IS amazing! Dan, nice work on the motor! I bet that was cool to run that long and have it not freak out. Great video. Kiki - how do you hold that camera so steady? I seriously thought it was locked off. Anyhoo, thanks for the hang on the boat! F
Thanks! Our camera actually has stabilization built in, which helps, but practice also makes better ;)
Love the electric motor. We use a trolling motor on our 22 foot trailer able yacht. Liquid cooling seems like it would be a good upgrade to keep efficiency up. Keep it up guys.
my trolling motor does 3 knots. my solar panel charges it about as fast as it drains. It was $300...26 foot Grampian. great lakes....what did I leave out... 1 deep cycle battery, I've never drained it all the way. that's my back up motor, usually I use my 4.5 horse single cylinder mercury, I used $30 in gas for this entire summer. I love sailing.
As one who has built a couple electric cars, and an electric outboard for my 26ft sailboat, I would add what some have said about cooling and temp, the motor is getting too hot,
those forklift motors are great for short-term use, and for our cars, batteries never lasted more than an hour, so was never a concern. OEM cars use more efficient motors
and cooling and can run forever. Cooling the outside of the case isn't effective for this motor, you need to pass cool air inside the motor past the rotor windings.
The salty air is a concern, but don't waste time on water cooling the outside. Best is to use a permanent magnet motor with built-in water cooling.
Keep up the great work, love to watch the videos.
Plenty of boats end up on the beach with engines. Sailing takes thought and planning, just a different set of parameters now.
Someone gets it ;)
No wind and a 3+ knot current against you is why you need a strong reliable motor that can push the boat for hours without resting. Between islands, reefs or crossing bars is a lot different to a canal or river. My Yanmar 30hp only uses ~2 litres per hour at 6 knots, so it's very economical and can run for days on a single tank.
You two are the best! Great entertainment and functional mix. Thanks. Stay safe. Love one another dearly!
Great test run guys! Remember the sun delivers 8.000 times more energy to Motherwell Earth than we use. So going electric is the way forward! We all Will be following your example in the next years to come. Also the sceptics! Cheers from Rotterdam, the Netherlands.
the engine on your dingy could have gotten you that extra bit while towing from the front but not being in a rush is always an advantage. Love your videos very much they have helped to get me through a rather awful time. I was wondering how you two like your new electric motor set up. is it working better than this old motor? Hope you are both doing well take care!
I think running the cooling lines on the electric motor is a very good idea, the cooler you can keep it the better it is going to work.
Although I think the best route is going to be to have a fresh to raw type setup like you have on a petrol engine with a sea strainer and all that jazz.
Really all you need is a tank for the coolant, and then have a larger diameter tube run through it this will prevent the system from clogging.
I might pop off a drawing of what I have in mind and send it to you.
I did not know until yesterday that you are all electric. That is fantastic. Very quiet, best packaging and reliability. And you can have a generator for more Range. I wonder why not all boats have electric motors driving the prop, with a diesel generator providing electricity and heat for all kinds of uses onboard.
Great test for the new setup! Personally I'd stay away from liquid cooling. I just get very nervous getting liquid of any type around electricity. Even if it IS dc. I'd try ducting first. A simple plywood box around the motor that you connect the fan on. You air closer to where it's needed for cooling. I'd also install a sending unit and readout around the helm, preferably with an adjustable alarm. I'm following your progress closely so "hopefully" I don't make mistakes that cost me. $$$$$ 😎
Dan, with the motor getting around 200 degrees, you might want to install a thermal barrier mat between the fiberglass mount and the motor mounts. This will give you some thermal protection between the motor and the hull mounts. Also mounting some cooling fins with some forced air would also help.
So I know these videos are delayed but if you are thinking about liquid cooling you might be able to do it passively. Ie warm water rises... , as the water wrapped around motor (i guess in a coil or some other type of heat exchange) rises it siphons in cool water thus taking heat from motor with it as it exiting the boat...keep hot side physically high, cool side low... I use this principle to heat my hot water for my house in the winter when my outdoor wood boiler is running and works great and saves me from running another water pump on my hot water heater. Love yalls diy stuff!
I was just thinking... You're good with fiberglass: mount a fan blade to the front of the motor where the shaft exits and build a fiberglass shroud around the motor with exhaust outlets you vent outside. That, along with heatsinks / fins on the exterior might keep you cool. :)
I’ve worked with forklift motors and they are pretty much built proof. They can be taxed beyond the limits stated.
To cool your motor more efficient you can bolt om aluminium cooling fins directly to your motor. Also direct the airflow directly over the motor. That is more efficient than just ventililating your enginebay.
Saw you hauling anchor chain by hand..obviously no anchor winch at present. An interim or emergency solution is a two chain hooks spliced to two separate lines led back to a sheet or other winch. Two because they are used turn and turn about without the need to secure chain between each retrieval.😁
That's how we got the huge hurricane anchor out 2 yrs ago after weathering Mathew on anchor. Takes awhile, but works great!
Great stuff guys! Thanks for the good practical experience!
Excellent episode and you found out some very good information about your motor and batteries!
Thank you guys, and Gals .. been house bound since 2004. Going nuts .. Now you have inspired me to get the hell out of Australia. Give up the house dream.. something that Australians no longer dream about or aspire to since the Asian and Indian buy up of all our real estate. ( so sad we sold out our culture ) ..
I think you should play with the prop pitch to make sure you get the best efficiency from the electric motor. Also, realize that you have an outboard motor sitting on a mount doing nothing. A more creative mount could make the dinghy motor available for main engine power.
You guys could get a gas generator to for emergencies to power your motor. That's actually how a lot of high end hybrids cars work. That way you get the best of both worlds when you need it. Also a gas generator is probably easier to service than a diesel motor and services duel purpose to charge your batteries.
Might I suggest finding out “once again” how far the batteries can be depleted. From my experience with lithium ion batteries in RC once down to 0 percent the battery is done. I usually go to 20% available and recharge. The other thought would be a stern bracket for your dingy motor to be used in an emergency. Thank you for the segments. Your presentation and videography is excellent.
I'm wondering if adding aluminum or copper heat sink fins to the motor casing would help dissipate the heat. And you could use copper coils and circulate sea water through those fins.
Just got home from work and happy to see a new video! Great way to start the day!
Two thoughts:
1) I worry about 300F real close to your fiberglass hull more than I do the motor itself. How much heat is being conducted to your hull through the mounts? Are your mounts temperature safe? I seem to recall that your batteries are self-protecting, so you should be safe.
2) As a first step, I would improve the air-cooling of the motor by wrapping with sheet aluminum, and extending the aluminum sheet off the motor into fins: a simple radiator. That, combined with your compartment fan would dissipate a lot of heat. Others have suggested water cooling to create hot water for bathing. A great idea, but gets complicated quick when you are sure not to overheat your holding tank, etc.
Can't wait to see how you work this out. Good luck, fair winds, and safe travels.
They could just attach cpu cooling fins.
I have PC's that use passive cooling for the video cards and I've seen the cooling fins being sold as individual parts.
I've even seen copper fins every now and then.
My concern is the battery terminals melting and acting like a fuse, are they still using the lead acid or lithium, have not caught up on all the changes. I personally do not like the dual battery requirement to generate a field that allows the motor to work, a ETEK style permanent magnet is better. This style or the MANTA would be 75% more efficient th-cam.com/video/t9Uog4udldQ/w-d-xo.html
I was thinking the same thing strap aluminum fins to motor and duct the fan to pull over them should greatly improve heat dissipation. Props to you for going with electric motor and sharing your thoughts and experiences.
@@frickandfracksicem its not permanent magnet? The batts are LiFePO4, sound pretty funky.
I love that electric motor. it´s a nice challenge. I recomend you to use an aluminium dissipator. It´s cheap and very efficient. Chears.
Doing research on an electric swap. Just bought my first boat and excited to see where it takes me.
Great test. Looking forward to the cooling solution. Lots of constructive comments/conversations.
Could you put a permanent fan on the other side of the motor (to that visible shaft) either to suck air away from the engine compartment or push fresh air in?
An extra fan great idea but will affect overall draw of the motor
Steve Jones Yes of course but external fan also takes current so...
Fans take current , are noisy and the cooling relies on air temp that can be quite high above outside down below on a sun drenched boat , plus then the heat can be uncomfortable for the people . I say a simple coil wrapped around the motor with a tiny pump to raw water to cool it . Water temp is more stable , quieter and not so invasive .Could use the old engine intake and any drain through hull . Maybe out a cockpit drain so you have visual confirmation of flow .
I would then put a few fans to cool the batteries on a stat . As the batteries go dead the current and heat will spike in both the motors and the batteries , and the cables but the cables should be OK as they were sized properly .
Many store bought electric boat motors are submersible for the natural cooling it provides . That is also why submersible pumps at your home last longer .
Great vid. So glad you're promoting the message about not being in a hurry. You must have pretty thick skin to put up with all those who poo poo'd the electric using the justification of having to get to a destination in a hurry. Stay safe! :-)
They poo poo it for safety reasons, read and comprehend.
Use thermal paste when attaching water cooling tubes, it really helps transfer heat and dissipate it. Maybe even add cooling fins to the water cooling as well. Can never have too much cooling on electric motors. (Unless it’s like waaaay cold)
I'm just trying to think of how you could get more revs from you Propshaft as compaired to the Engine Revs. But then you have the Prop itself and possibility of cavitateing the prop. Or getting a higher thrust production prop. I've said it in the past, that max speed of six knots gives me the heebies. F.W.F>S.
Why? Our sailboat can't go much faster in any condition. It's a displacement hull. Even with a 100hp diesel you won't get past about 8.5-9kts.
Sold lift trucks and other heavy equipment for many years. Yours is a novel idea. Normally I would not be very concerned about the motor heat as I would be about draining into the deep cycle of your batteries. By that I mean the last 20ish percent of power. The reason for that is that it creates heat which tends to boil off water in the cells warping the zinc plates and throwing off acid ratios. If you are forced to use this power often you will kill your battery life. Suggest getting a meter to check acid levels every so often. Torque in pushing against waves to windward will be interesting. I'll try to be positive and keep my fingers crossed it works out. Happy trails
We have LiFePo4's so no need to worry about acid levels.
Good stuff.. I love it ..
We use victron too and .. had the same prediction at the first time.
The Victron does predict the power correct if it’s set correct so maybe you can adjust something or it needs to learn.
Another thing to think about is that the Tide does delay up on rivers..
I would consider enclosing one end of the motor in a sealed box and venting that with the inline fan so that cooling air is draw *through* the motor rather than blown over it.
I think Id be looking at some shielding to protect the hull because thats still pretty hot
,,, and it sounds like you understand the benefits cooling would have on the motor efficiency so I will leave that alone
Pearson 365s with the stock WB 4108 come with two 4" hose engine blower which runs both sides of the fuel tank and exits aft of the lazarette with what look like 2 low profile dorade vents. All that matters is you make the best of the hose area for best CFM
have a good one
Diesels get about as hot as our little electric motor does. Also, with the air getting sucked out, nothing around it got very warm.
Diesels don't run at 300 degrees F. They run 150 to about 200. I know of diesel propusion engines like the Cat. 3208 with over 16,000 hours pushing 25 to 35 tons with no major repairs. Cool that electric motor! Get it proped right and that alone will help the motor run cooler longer. Do you have a generator on board? It can supliment the batteries and increase running time dramaticaly. I hope your prop shaft is not coupled directly to the electric motor. Those forklift motors were not designed with thrust bearings. Be prepared for multiple bearing failures if you don't connect the prop shaft to a thrust bearing or a transmission and take the stress off the electric motor's shaft bearings. What lubricates the electric motor's shaft bearings? Moving 5 to 8 tons is asking a lot from that repurposed forklift motor. It never had to work that hard in fork lift. Now that I've raised some ugly issues I want you to know I want you to be safe. You're my favorite sailing channel and I wish you two the best. If you don't have a genset, get one. At least it could save you in an emergancy.
You should look into making a heat sync from an old car/truck radiator that the motor sits on and one above it.
Now you can invent a safe way to water cool the motor. Great video! Cheers!
I lost my butt investing in a marine electric propulsion company and they are now gone, but they did have some really cool concepts. I sure will have electric in any boats I ever sail. Right now, I just have a trolling motor on a 18 footer, but I have a steel ketch to refit and sail one day. One cool concept was regenerative motor sailing. They had a computer switch between drive and charge in a seaway. They installed some, It would be interesting to know if it really worked. Thanks for all the info! Fair winds!
www.multihulls.com/elec_wheel.html
Why is the cool company gone?
Long Story, but they tried to sue Toyota for patent infringement and lost their butt.
I know it’s heresy but have you considered adding a genset to the equation? I’d be worried about being off a lee shore with depleted batteries and broken rig. My diesel tank gives me 300 miles of auxiliary comfort. 15 miles seems awfully thin.
Looking forward to seeing how your future sails go. Cheers!
You could have launched the dinghy and used it to tug her up the river but you are going to need more than that if you get dismasted and blown towards rocks.
You need a bigger motor and some more batteries plus a way to use the outboard in emergencies if you want to stay safe.
Motor heath, would suggest to search for a forced ventilator, which can be driven by the electric motor itself. You probably can find one which fits in the elevator industry .
Just blowing air into the rotor will cool it down significantly ,
I think is a great idea - the motor shaft sticks out of the moto back plate, so a vent there and the forced air-cooling is ready.
Or just use sea water and Cooper pipes it would probably live a much longer life
Dan I think your thoughs about liquid cooling are right direction. Even weekest liquid cooling is better then air because it is isolator. Getting liquid cooling is MUCH more quiet then fan cooling. Computer geeks use liquid because it is less annoing. Plus fact that you can use car cooling liquid which has temperature of boilng up to 223°F. I would recomend oil cooling because you can get boilin point at 572 F or more (even if oil is much worse conductor then water) but when your fluid coat woud leak, oil should not demage your engine. Oil is used in condensator as isolator. Use working solutions, heat to oil, oil to (air or water). Like in a car.
Hay guys,
Great video, thanks for sharing.
Suggestions - mount that blower up on the cockpit cowling, route the duct down and blow cool air on the motor. Will do much more cooling of the motor and also help cool compartment. Also, mount a retractable outboard motor bracket on the transom so you can use that nice dinghy motor to assist when needed. Can save your bacon or just help out during long runs.
Cheers, John H.
B.C. Canada
To lazy to read all the comments so here are a few thoughts. Maybe with a closed loop system you could use the heat you are generating with the motor to heat up water for showers? OR You should be able to design a self circulating system with sea water to help keep the temps down, make physics do the work in stead of losing energy to a pump. Based on watching your channel your sailing skills show that you obviously don't "need" the motor. Keep experimenting!
The ICW tides can be a challenge to any type of engine, I've been at full throttle not timing my trips especially under narrow bridges.
Dan, it may be that the program is set up for lead acid batteries, looking at a max/perferred 50% discharge. Run for 1 hr. use 25%= 1hr at 25% left....
Yup! That's exactly how it's reading. Not sure I can change it though.
I guess if you can't change that parameter you might want to put a conversion formula on your chalkboard...75%=2/3 power remaining, 50%=1/3 power remaining, but that will vary with % throttle... ah-oh, this is getting complicated... or you spend the time and work it out mathematically and create your own power curve...have fun with that...
Dan..l. Have you re-set the Victron to Lithium? Had to re-set ours.👍
So lots of posts on the pros and cons of electric motors . To be clear electric motors are by far the best , quiet , efficient , powerful and low maintenance .
It is the batteries that suck . No one really has any problem with the motor , barring Uma that made their own set up and they nearly have it .
I think the best set up is electric with a gen set that can extend range and run other stuff as needed like water makers or recharge batteries while on the hook after a spell of bad weather . Solar these days can run just about everything , but it is short on running propulsion . In an ideal world the gen set is rarely needed but there if you want to explore a river or canal . .
Do you have permanent magnet motor? If you have, it is especially important to keep the engine cool because otherwise the magnets get demaged. Maybe a smaller prop diameter would help.
I think theirs is brushed motor, not the best choice for boats.
I would think a blower pushing fresh air around the motor would help a lot.. The only time you should really need that much amperage though is to get into a difficult harbor in difficult conditions. Have you looked into a more efficient DC motor? And have you researched the prop size and pitch that will work best with the motor's torque and efficiency RPM curve? You might be able to pick up considerable efficiency with just a different prop.
With the open ended shaft of the rotor, would it be worthwhile to insert a shaft with a fan? Understanding that you are loosing a fair amount of power because of heat, would this help offset the loss?
yehaa my uma fix . as always live free sail hard
Adding water cooling would be the best, but consider some aluminum heatsinks. You can make your own for very little$. Just get some Alum sheet and either make 'donuts' to wrap around the motor or bend into a many pointed star to go around and fasten. Use a heat conductive grease like that used to on computer heat sinks. Then with only the blow motor you have making some circulation you should see a drop in temp. Even more air flow will show better results.
Hi guys, I was just hoping I could ask some questions please I am a super duper MAGA huge fan if that helps you decide if I can 😇
1/ where did the term "Elected beke" come from
2/ Are you intending on replacing your foot rail?
3/ Does your new dinghy cover the 2nd route in and out of your cabin in case of fire and such or is there a way around this problem I don't know about (which is likely as I'm yet to own a boat)!
Also Id just like to take this opportunity to tell you what a huge inspiration you are to me I love that you have a realistic boat for your needs and you just pretty much went I know you did a lot of work first but you still went asap! Your cool 😎
I would take a wild guess that the hotter you run the motor the shorter its life. Id put a few turns of water pipe on it with an electric pump - precautionary principle...
50% is the max you can draw out right, as with leadacid, unless you are desperate...
Always good to see your vids ..
Our motor is rated to run at 356°F for 10,000+hrs. Bearings too. And we can discharge our batteries to almost dead with no harm, their LifePO4's.
@@SailingUma oh cool, or is that hot!
Oh wow pretty funky batteries! Havent heard of such a deap cycle before.
Interesting to see how they go. Should be pretty reliable id imagine.
I like reading all the ideas people gave to improve the efficiency. There is a lot of care and concern out there. Its a fun and inspiring project obviously. We would all have our own concoction of cooling gizmos and monitors stuck on the motor ha ha. Perhaps the batteries or cables may need cooling too? But it will all come out in the wash as its tested to its limits. All great fun.
The difference in "time remaining" may be caused by the rate of your drains. If you had a "100 amp" rated battery bank, that's 100 amps taken over 20 hours. The same battery bank might only be good for 60 amps if drained in eight or ten hours, and 40 amps if drained in an hour or two. Under heavy load the internal battery chemistry interfers with itself and prevents full power from being available.
If we had lead acid yes, But with Lithium, they don't rate them like that. 100A mean 100A no matter how fast you discharge them. 1A for 100hr or 100A for 1 hr, doesn't matter. The problem we found was that the battery monitor was set to a 50% discharge limit.
Even with lithium, there is some curve. I don't see any mention of it from Battleborn but CALB rates their 180ah cells at the 0.3c discharge rate, reducing them to 90ah @ 0.5c ! That's literally cutting the capacity in half. Your mis-set meter may not be the whole issue, try asking BB for some capacity-vs-load ratings, every manufacturer has them.
You two are the biggest boat project teases I have ever watched. What is going on with the head, galley, and deck? SHM
Same as last time. Our projects are 90% planning 7% try and fail and only about 3% actually doing. We usually only show that last 3%. When we do the work, you'll see it in a video. Promise.
Class H is plenty. 900V F1 hybrid motors are Class H.... Be aware that there is a temperature/time ageing characteristic on insulation systems though. On brushed motors, keeping an eye on your brush temperatures is often the limiting factor.... Blowing air is a great plan though, doesn’t need much.
You guys rock! I'm sure having some hard numbers on the engine feels good and a 15 mile radius is great! How long would it take to charge 75% of your battery capacity on an average sunny day? Also I'd like to officially vote for Dan to grow his hair out!😁😎
I don't know what solar panels they have but if it's around 300W (rough approximation from the image on their website) they would need 50 hours of direct sunlight to charge 75 percent of the battery bank capacity. So, if it's contentiously sunny and they spent their days adjusting the panels to align perfectly throughout the day the shortest time would be about a week.
We don't really plan on using solar to charge from such a deep discharge. In reality, we sail everywhere, and use our motor VERY sparingly. We would normally use about 5-10% from off shore to anchored, that we can get back in a day or two of good sun, and that includes our daily loads (fridge, laptops etc). If we needed to motor longer we'd just tie up to a dock for the night and charge back up. We can fill our bank from 25% in about 8-10hr. In the long run, we're hoping to get good regen, so if we need to motor out from anchorage to ocean a long way, we can then sail for a few days and charge back up. But that may require a different motor altogether.
Dan, I've been following you since you started. You have made some great strides in preparing your boat to really do some sailing. I only have one thing I'm trying to understand. What is your objective. Work on a boat or sail. I'd love to talk to you guys but not on TH-cam. I have a lot of experience technically and sailing. I've restored two boats. A 32 and a 37 foot sailboat. I'm probably wasting my time, but I have offered.
Sailing Uma With 4 days to top up without (that's with sun) a doc. It could be dangerous to sail Asia and around the equator (common to have little or no wind for a day or 3, as you can be near reefs, strong currents, no wind. = no boat. Often to deep to anchor there till your on the reef.
Richard dackas .... this system is great for afternoon sails or going out for a day on the weekend. But would not work for long distances. I suggest they up the dingy outboard to 25hp so the sailboat can be towed....... for coastal cruising.
You might investigate retrofitting some PC liquid cooling hardware for your motor casing. It's possible you could liquid cool the motor for very little current draw.
I'm going through an electric conversion right now on my Pearson. Two 10kw motors on the shaft for 20kw peak output. Rarely will I run at peak (if ever); the two 10kw motors won't work as hard and won't run as hot, thus no need for liquid cooling. I really hope to avoid the thermal efficiency issue. My boat is a P35, slightly smaller and lighter than your P365.
By the way, I totally envy your battery config. Still drooling.
Sounds like you might have one of the kits from Electric Yacht? They make some quality stuff. 20kW will probably cause cavitation long before you peak out. But agree with the lack of cooling needed. A motor upgrade is on our list.
Sounds like the motor has inverter duty windings, this gives a bit of a false sense of security because although the windings can take the heat the bearings almost certainly will not. Especially when thrust loads are being exerted on them. Only a true thrust bearing will protect the motor from those loads (no matter what the manufacturers say) at the very least I would add a couple heat sink bands to the motor to help reduce the heat. Most motor shops will have these readily available.
I'm in the process of upgrading to electric propulsion on my sailboat. I have a dedicated outboard for backup. Putting a outboard mount on the stern and using the dinghy motor would provide the same effect.
I don't know if you ever read these comments, but if you can charge your batteries while running they will last longer. Taking them down so much shortens the life of them. Plus you have more power from fully charged batteries, and much less as the percentage goes down
The dog looks good on you two.
Hi guys!! Welcome to Lauderdale! We’re just down the river from you (we’re in your video at 14:07🤗) Saw you were at Sailorman too. Would love to grab a beer with you this weekend if you’re still in town!
I know that for radio controlled vehicules, we can buy heatsink to keep our motor cool, I dont know if they make heatsinks for that size of motor... but that could be an idea, coupled with a fan, it definitely keep the motor cooler, but I dont know how much cooler it would keep it...
Good test of batteries and motor run time, decent. Have you tested running the motor( slowly) on the solar alone so that you could work you way thru the doldrums and the like? Could you attach a fan blade to the motor shaft for direct cooling or would that draw away power from the motor drive?
Cheers Warren
Just some thoughts that come to mind:
- Is your motor rated for continuous duty? If not, it may only be rated for 15 minute intervals.
- Increased temperatures reduce the life expectancy of a motor. The less you heat your motor, the longer it will last.
- Are there any electronics in the motor compartment that could be damaged by increased temperatures? 200+ degrees is a lot of heat in a small space.
Curious as to why you did not anchor and wait for slack water?
Curious also as to your motives and objectives going 'electric'.? How much current does all the monitoring electronics draw.
Is there some protective device in case of a fouled prop..sheer pin or the like?
Slack water in a river? um...........
Awesome episode!
The winding's insulation might handle the temp but i'd be worried about the bearing temp and what its going to do to the grease. 268 deg f, heck you could boil water on that motor, the bigger the part the more it expands. like .001" for every 100 deg you go up in temp. Please use some type of cooling.
I love your guys channel! I subscribe to about 4 other sailing channels you guys are the ones that made me ask my wife if I could be a patron of
Excellent video!
What a fantastic video do you think 2 more solar panels will help you could make them so they fold down each side of the 2 you already have ? Thanks again Grimsby uk
Dan I can see why your jealous, Kika does have the best hair 🌼🌸🌼
in an engine cooling scenario its always best to simply go with the best cooling solution, as it eliminates the possibility and worry of an overheat. Ambient temperatures is a real issue, The heat from the air as well as the reflected heat from the engine itself. do yourselves a favor and switch to the water cooling.
Don't forget to factor in your electric cooling fans in your overall battery draw down
Hey guys, how are you doing ? Why don't you figure it out a way to use a heater exchanger or just wrap your motor with narrow copper tubes and heat a water tank for shower ? Cheers
Yep she's a keeper she knows where the dogs mouth goes, I don't let dogs lick my face either.
you know that was fake news it is face to let dogs like you my dogs lick my face and im just fine