There is a hard limit of 100 client states per game and only European vassals can be part of the HRE, so that wont really be possible with this strategy.
Doesn't "The Grand Palace of Bangkok" great project give you +50% Vassal force limit contribution at rank 3? Don't think it has any requirements either.
Can you completely balkanize Europe, like make it all one province minors? There are 827 provinces in the European continent. The limits for clients states is 100 in any game. The total number of country tags in the game is just less than 1000, and looking at the wiki, less than 300 of those seem to be in the European continent. So to truly balkanize Europe you would have to "forcibly migrate" other country to europe. When you are a republic if you make and abuse trade cities, you could get another 100 tags maybe. Colonial nations also have 100 tags and could be abused and migrated though some should probably be left in the new world. Could be an interesting challenge to try to make the most princes possible by trying to completely balkanize Europe.
An interesting interaction with this: it seems possible to stack "liberty desire from subject development" reductions. For example: Dominate NA mission for Norway: 33% Austrian archduchy: 33% (seems it just needs a culture drift) Influence ideas: 10% Naval/expansion policy: 25% I have never looked at whether this caps and at what point. Pdox *probably* capped it though. Probably...though negative liberty desire from dev would be funny. Still the above already sums to 100%, and there are other sources (alternative weaker missions, age of rev ability, etc). As long as this doesn't cap too far below 100%, you could probably run your 7-9 vassals (possibly more with strong duchies and going a bit over your limit) with 1000-2000 development each and have very manageable LD (since you're still getting FL and such from them. This is just theorycraft at this point though. Unfortunately, it's a lot harder to extract income from subjects other than colonial nations. You only get their tax income, plus trade if you use "divert trade". This creates weird interactions like you want them to have temples/cathedrals and manufactories, but workshops in their provinces don't directly benefit you, while (if you're doing what's going on in this video) military buildings will...especially force limit. Or you just do that setup TheStudent did with trade protectorate spam that you commented on, that should let you pay for the troops and fits the theme.
Did you know its possible to form mamluks without being muslim or being independent. I just learned it 2 days ago. If you switch to maghrebi culture, you can take the berbery iqta tier 1 govt reform. Then once you own cairo and make sure that mamluks dont exist, you can form cairo. Also the middle option of the barbary iqta govt reform gives you 50x the manpower of all your subjects development. So hypothetically if youre hre emperor and have colonies you can basically print manpower every few years
There is a gov reform (that you get by forming Mossi in an event) that gives you 1000 manpower per manpower dev in your primary culture provinces (stacking with manpower modifiers) and if you do an Arabian mission whilst being a tribal federation as you also get access to the tribal allegiance and get to max every 20 years if you have enough primary culture provinces you'll also get 3 years of manpower and 18 cav. Although as Arabia is an end game tag you need to start as a tribal federation (either najd so you can form Arabia without being at the needed admin tech or the qoyunlos for their missions), form Arabia, grab the mission, form aoteora viti or Hawaii and than form Mossi for the gov reform
I will need to take a look at that, Mamluks already wasn't a bad pit stop as it was a formable that wasn't an endtag, but especially with the new content and well this, that could get really insane really quickly.
Forming Viti or Hawaii doesn't reset the endtag condition I am afraid, when you form an endtag the game gives you the flag 'was an endtag' and forming Viti or something of that nature doesn't remove the flag. Basically, without exploits, that unfortunately doesn't work.
Technically; I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, you could make 99 “Large” new world colonies if you vassalize colonial tags then integrate them while they have their own colonial tags.
Yes: my issue with new world colonies is I consider more then 1 colonial nation per area an exploit. Not because of any game mechanic reason, but personally because its too strong. I know, very arbitrary but I have to draw the line personally somewhere. If you are happy using it, go right ahead!
I think it would be interesting to have a comparison between a run with all those nations switches trying to stack modifiers and a run full min Max with development and more focussed. I am not sure which one will be on top because nation forming may stack modifiers but you spend a lot of mana to do it that otherwise you could use it on improving your nation.
Oh in a 1v1 final country comparison where we take the two countries and put then in an MP war.... The fully min max one wins easily. You waste so much time running around for modifiers and stuff, you are just better off... not doing it 99% of the time. These things are just for fun, and a lot of the time, these things are harder to do then a world conquest.
I have a question. What if we have a portugal as vassal with them having a colonial nation in every region on top of us having colonial nation in every region. (so there is andalusian brazil and portugesse brazil, portugesse mexico and andalusian mexico you get the idea) since portugal would have buffs to their forcelimit from their colonies they would have more forcelimit which would mean our modifier for their forcelimit would gives us even more forcelimit right? ofc portugal would have 0 modifiers for extra vassal forcelimit but it still would be quite something
we would gain buffs to our FL from Portugal, but given that Portugal is unlikely to be getting over 325% Vassal FL contribution, we would be better off math wise cutting out the middle man, and just annexing Portugal from a purely FL question.
much easier and comparable would be majapahit or ayutthaya - MAJ for forcelimit AYU for huge vassals with very little liberty desire. Majapahit gets 100% from NIs and 100% from mandala reform. Not going for horde first opens for holy trinity of influ+merc+eplo/expa - Your client states colonize on their own and can and will form multiple colonial nations. You can easily get 5 australias, each when maxed giving 40 forcelimit just for existing. You have also easy time going for shogunate though it will probably cost mandala so -100%FL
Majapahit or Ayutthaya are the other two options, certainly, they have the 100% FL gov reform too. Client states unfortunately won't colonize, same for vassals, as the weight to take colonial ideas is -1000 if you are subject. As for getting multiple colonial nations in the same area... Yeah that is really OP and very much broken, shame I consider it an exploit personally, but you are welcome to go right ahead!
I think I got one who lived for more thant 85 years. And I saw the starting ruler of Milan live up to 90-91. With the x10 mod I got one who lived for more than 200 years but that is cheating.
impressive modifier but I pretty much only play mp now. FL is only as useful as the manpower you have to field it. I have toyed with a custom nation build that stacks this and has a lot of banners in theory.
A fellow MP enjoyer, fair enough. Of course, manpower is very necessary, but FL helps you still since running 200 is easier done when your not actually over FL. Of course don't this in multiplayer unless that multiplayer is with some friends and your goofing around, you will just die to anyone with actual quality.
so with this set up, if i get riga do its missions and get 35 dev (1 mission alr give 11 on top of 11 they start with), their force limit will be around 15? Meaning i get 7.75 from march, and 155% of their force limit mult by another 675%? Thats 7.75 + 15*1.55*6.75 right?
It would come to 7.75+15*1.55 assuming their total FL will be 15. Not sure where you got the other 675% from, the 675% is just your modifier that gets converted into the 7.75 and the 1.55
Their is nothing more annoying than vassels killing the ottoman rise autonomy rebels especially when we not at war with him. Also that auto siege button is stupid cause my own troops with unoccupied neutral nations from rebels.
ew, the audio on this one is extra echoy. The pope video is an improvement, I'm hoping you just took your rugs out of the room for cleaning or something.
That's weird, in my editing software the audio is pretty much fixed. I haven't got any other comments on it, weird that you noticed things though, since pretty much nothing got changed between those two videos. I am home for Christmas, but I had the same issues while at uni as well. I mean I will keep an out for the audio stuff as always to be clear, but I haven't seen any new issues personally.
Broken but the real limit to filling this force limit will be the amount of CPUs of your computer as Florryworry had shown :)
Understandable, next video we stacking CPU cores!
That was a fun one! I should be back with a touch more free time, so more videos coming soon.
Don't forget to increase your vassal tax efficiency so you could afford to have the entire Soviet Red Army.
That can be actually useful in this case, for sure!
Lend lease moment
sounds like a new challenge for budgetmonk
conquer the world and have every province be 50+ dev
Playing on VH may be easier as the AI will dev for him
There is a hard limit of 100 client states per game and only European vassals can be part of the HRE, so that wont really be possible with this strategy.
I got songhai as a vassal and as an HRE member. I just had to make it small enought and get a land connexion throught caucasus and egypt...
@@jako3015 yeah thats why I said you should focus on normal vassal tags, as the 99 client state limit is a thing
Wow I can’t believe Lemon would be endorsing the decentralised form of the HRE
Its 'decentralised' in a very... unique way.
Doesn't "The Grand Palace of Bangkok" great project give you +50% Vassal force limit contribution at rank 3? Don't think it has any requirements either.
Yes it does, and I missed it. Well spotted!
To be honest - I'd love to see guides done this way made by you
Aw thanks, I did make 5 mini ones a while back, so they are certainly conceptually on the agenda. Thanks for the feedback!
The format of this video was just perfect, more of this please!!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed!
@@LemonCake101 it's given me a few campaign ideas, recently your videos inspire what I play next. You and the Student both do that really well!
@@aeryka ah thanks, always good to hear!
Can you completely balkanize Europe, like make it all one province minors? There are 827 provinces in the European continent. The limits for clients states is 100 in any game. The total number of country tags in the game is just less than 1000, and looking at the wiki, less than 300 of those seem to be in the European continent. So to truly balkanize Europe you would have to "forcibly migrate" other country to europe. When you are a republic if you make and abuse trade cities, you could get another 100 tags maybe. Colonial nations also have 100 tags and could be abused and migrated though some should probably be left in the new world.
Could be an interesting challenge to try to make the most princes possible by trying to completely balkanize Europe.
An interesting interaction with this: it seems possible to stack "liberty desire from subject development" reductions. For example:
Dominate NA mission for Norway: 33%
Austrian archduchy: 33% (seems it just needs a culture drift)
Influence ideas: 10%
Naval/expansion policy: 25%
I have never looked at whether this caps and at what point. Pdox *probably* capped it though. Probably...though negative liberty desire from dev would be funny. Still the above already sums to 100%, and there are other sources (alternative weaker missions, age of rev ability, etc). As long as this doesn't cap too far below 100%, you could probably run your 7-9 vassals (possibly more with strong duchies and going a bit over your limit) with 1000-2000 development each and have very manageable LD (since you're still getting FL and such from them. This is just theorycraft at this point though.
Unfortunately, it's a lot harder to extract income from subjects other than colonial nations. You only get their tax income, plus trade if you use "divert trade". This creates weird interactions like you want them to have temples/cathedrals and manufactories, but workshops in their provinces don't directly benefit you, while (if you're doing what's going on in this video) military buildings will...especially force limit. Or you just do that setup TheStudent did with trade protectorate spam that you commented on, that should let you pay for the troops and fits the theme.
Oh, I do wonder if its capped! Since if it isn't, 9 Giga Vassals would be an amazing run.
As for the income part: yes, its a lot harder. You will be losing out on a lot of money directly, so you will have to rely on trade more then ever.
How to play with vassal force limit contribution optimally:
Step 1: Create lag
Done, congratulations!
Honestly... yes.
Did you know its possible to form mamluks without being muslim or being independent. I just learned it 2 days ago. If you switch to maghrebi culture, you can take the berbery iqta tier 1 govt reform. Then once you own cairo and make sure that mamluks dont exist, you can form cairo.
Also the middle option of the barbary iqta govt reform gives you 50x the manpower of all your subjects development. So hypothetically if youre hre emperor and have colonies you can basically print manpower every few years
There is a gov reform (that you get by forming Mossi in an event) that gives you 1000 manpower per manpower dev in your primary culture provinces (stacking with manpower modifiers) and if you do an Arabian mission whilst being a tribal federation as you also get access to the tribal allegiance and get to max every 20 years if you have enough primary culture provinces you'll also get 3 years of manpower and 18 cav.
Although as Arabia is an end game tag you need to start as a tribal federation (either najd so you can form Arabia without being at the needed admin tech or the qoyunlos for their missions), form Arabia, grab the mission, form aoteora viti or Hawaii and than form Mossi for the gov reform
I will need to take a look at that, Mamluks already wasn't a bad pit stop as it was a formable that wasn't an endtag, but especially with the new content and well this, that could get really insane really quickly.
Forming Viti or Hawaii doesn't reset the endtag condition I am afraid, when you form an endtag the game gives you the flag 'was an endtag' and forming Viti or something of that nature doesn't remove the flag.
Basically, without exploits, that unfortunately doesn't work.
@@LemonCake101 ohhh ok
@@Herpestesichneumon yeah if you could reset end tags, my videos would all be around 10 min longer
Technically; I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, you could make 99 “Large” new world colonies if you vassalize colonial tags then integrate them while they have their own colonial tags.
Yes: my issue with new world colonies is I consider more then 1 colonial nation per area an exploit. Not because of any game mechanic reason, but personally because its too strong. I know, very arbitrary but I have to draw the line personally somewhere. If you are happy using it, go right ahead!
liberty desire might be a fun one to see. I would suggest Ligor.
Liberty desire is a weird one, as having -1000 is the same as having -2000 is my issue.
also I think you missed the grand palace of bangkok, for another 50%
@@LemonCake101 one way to do it could maybe be to compare the size of vassal you could keep loyal instead of the liberty desire directly
@@Aaaa-gs7ww yeah that's a good one. "what is the biggest vassal you can keep compared ot your size"
@@RisingChaosWriting - I have, well spotted!
I think it would be interesting to have a comparison between a run with all those nations switches trying to stack modifiers and a run full min Max with development and more focussed.
I am not sure which one will be on top because nation forming may stack modifiers but you spend a lot of mana to do it that otherwise you could use it on improving your nation.
Oh in a 1v1 final country comparison where we take the two countries and put then in an MP war....
The fully min max one wins easily. You waste so much time running around for modifiers and stuff, you are just better off... not doing it 99% of the time.
These things are just for fun, and a lot of the time, these things are harder to do then a world conquest.
I have a question. What if we have a portugal as vassal with them having a colonial nation in every region on top of us having colonial nation in every region. (so there is andalusian brazil and portugesse brazil, portugesse mexico and andalusian mexico you get the idea) since portugal would have buffs to their forcelimit from their colonies they would have more forcelimit which would mean our modifier for their forcelimit would gives us even more forcelimit right? ofc portugal would have 0 modifiers for extra vassal forcelimit but it still would be quite something
we would gain buffs to our FL from Portugal, but given that Portugal is unlikely to be getting over 325% Vassal FL contribution, we would be better off math wise cutting out the middle man, and just annexing Portugal from a purely FL question.
*The screams of a 1000 PCs can be heard in the distance*
And then there was silence... RIP the CPU's.
much easier and comparable would be majapahit or ayutthaya - MAJ for forcelimit AYU for huge vassals with very little liberty desire. Majapahit gets 100% from NIs and 100% from mandala reform. Not going for horde first opens for holy trinity of influ+merc+eplo/expa - Your client states colonize on their own and can and will form multiple colonial nations. You can easily get 5 australias, each when maxed giving 40 forcelimit just for existing.
You have also easy time going for shogunate though it will probably cost mandala so -100%FL
Majapahit or Ayutthaya are the other two options, certainly, they have the 100% FL gov reform too. Client states unfortunately won't colonize, same for vassals, as the weight to take colonial ideas is -1000 if you are subject. As for getting multiple colonial nations in the same area... Yeah that is really OP and very much broken, shame I consider it an exploit personally, but you are welcome to go right ahead!
@@LemonCake101 secret sauce: client states inherit Your idea groups (at the moment of establishing them)
@@pepeadamczyk2163 oh, I wasn't aware of that. Good to know!
Small question that I have always wondered how many years a ruler can live, the maximum that has happened to me is 73 years
There is no hard cap but yeah the chance of death really starts to hit pretty much 100%
I have seen shah rukh of the timurids die in 1490s one time. In 1444 shah rukh is in his 60s.
I think I got one who lived for more thant 85 years.
And I saw the starting ruler of Milan live up to 90-91.
With the x10 mod I got one who lived for more than 200 years but that is cheating.
The basically hard cap is ~90, ruler lifespan only increases the chance to get that high
@@phileascurtil5605 ah fair, with x10 mod +20% ruler lifespan is basically +200%
impressive modifier but I pretty much only play mp now. FL is only as useful as the manpower you have to field it. I have toyed with a custom nation build that stacks this and has a lot of banners in theory.
A fellow MP enjoyer, fair enough. Of course, manpower is very necessary, but FL helps you still since running 200 is easier done when your not actually over FL.
Of course don't this in multiplayer unless that multiplayer is with some friends and your goofing around, you will just die to anyone with actual quality.
@@LemonCake101 just 10 to 1 them 😏
@@LemonCake101 in the case of banners, if you take defensive, they would have to do 5-1 casualties to make the manpower lose even.
@@chinchillaruby4170 you could for a while!
so with this set up, if i get riga do its missions and get 35 dev (1 mission alr give 11 on top of 11 they start with), their force limit will be around 15? Meaning i get 7.75 from march, and 155% of their force limit mult by another 675%? Thats 7.75 + 15*1.55*6.75 right?
It would come to 7.75+15*1.55 assuming their total FL will be 15. Not sure where you got the other 675% from, the 675% is just your modifier that gets converted into the 7.75 and the 1.55
That's a lot of soldiers!
We do our best!
Their is nothing more annoying than vassels killing the ottoman rise autonomy rebels especially when we not at war with him. Also that auto siege button is stupid cause my own troops with unoccupied neutral nations from rebels.
The auto siege button is such an amazing idea so badly executed…
No Caddo or Russia? Literally unplayable
It’s time to route both
Giving away my secret gb tactic
Shh... GB is strong enough as it is, arguably too strong.
@@LemonCake101 the next game IS called victoria
@@jansatamme6521 oh I don't deny that, England certainly has historical reasons for being good.
@@LemonCake101 i do this for mp really good to have 500 extra forcelimit from eic and the rest with mil groups being resticted
@@knownothing3364 oh yeah, its even more insane if you have players on your colonies!
ew, the audio on this one is extra echoy. The pope video is an improvement, I'm hoping you just took your rugs out of the room for cleaning or something.
That's weird, in my editing software the audio is pretty much fixed. I haven't got any other comments on it, weird that you noticed things though, since pretty much nothing got changed between those two videos. I am home for Christmas, but I had the same issues while at uni as well. I mean I will keep an out for the audio stuff as always to be clear, but I haven't seen any new issues personally.
Hello Twitch👋🏻👋🏻
Hello!