The only baffling thing to me is that only 4 "aesthetics" were used for every single one I expected them to add more the further you got into the game, like imagine endgame ones with the Space Colony ARK aesthetics... Really missed opportunity.
Plus it confuses me on why the city levels are new when they’re literally pulled from Sonic’s memories, why couldn’t they just have them be called Skyscraper Scamper since the levels look identical?
@@calebproductions1264 The level types are not named in-game AFAIK, so that'd be on the fans not recognizing the "highway" ones as Skyscraper Scamper. But to be fair they aren't as obvious as the others.
@@calebproductions1264 It's probably a combination of City Escape and Speed Highway amd Skyscraper Scamper but with new layout. Also 1-7 is probably a bit of Westopolis. You know, the tanks ans helicopters
@@richardperaza5083 Idk why that one stage in particular has such a hard S rank. I wonder if the devs thought it'd be funny just to just make the second cyberspace level a Mr. Perfect run.
Happened to me too, it's because the levels use some layouts from older games but a lot of them are not the exact same level, they add some new level sections too.
Hopefully making the cyber space levels will help educate the new level designers in Sonic Team on what is interesting and fun to play through. The original Cyber Space stages are neat too - I really like the skateboarding one.
The completely original stages have some really great level design, especially 4-2. It gives me faith that Sonic Team can still make well designed linear stages.
Hot take but I'm actually totally cool with Cyberspace reusing layouts. If it was the only thing in the game it would be unacceptable, but as a side activity to the main open world gameplay it's actually really cool playing through a level and being like "This seems familiar...wait I know this one!" Specifically playing the SA2 levels with boost gameplay was such a unique experience. A real meshing of the different eras of the series that made things feel more connected than they've been for a long time.
@@monovailable tbh the theming is my only major complaint with these stages. I think having only four themes across the whole game is a little weak. Especially when three of those four themes have already been massively overdone in the franchise. It would've been cool to see themes reappear that we haven't seen in awhile. Like Red Mountain from SA1 or Rail Canyon from Heroes.
@@monovailable Oh yeah definitely that part of it is cool. I'm just saying I would've liked to have seen more settings than the four to really mix things up. It might've been cool to match theming to each overworld. So Kronos Island could have all the grassy green levels like Green Hill, Green Forest, Angel Island. Ares Island could have desert levels like Savannah Citadel, Pyramid Cave, Rail Canyon, Sandopolis. Chaos Island could have volcanic/lava levels like Red Mountain, Lava Reef, Crisis City. And so on.
@@smoogieboogie1694 oh yeah that would've been awesome. It would've been cool to see Final Rush/Final Chase as one of the actual levels, just with different layout. I really liked the space themes. They could've been on Ouranos Island as a neat bit of foreshadowing lol
Personatly, I'm cool with seeing Adventure 2 stages and Generations classic stages because they give us the opportunity to see how do these stages translate into boost levels(even though there is a Sonic Generations mod that allows us to play the classic stages but that's not official so that doesn't count)
PS : "SEGA managed to implement Adventure Era stages into Boost levels and that’s amazing." you should not be congratulating SEGA, it's Sonic Team you should congratulate
I think the idea of past stages coming back as bonuses would be cool, but the Generations level themes just feel a little pander-y. I think it'd probably be cooler if they just used a wholly original cyberspace theme or something. Still fun tho
There are 3 outlooks you can have while playing cyberspace levels. "Oh, This is new!" "Seen this before..." "Oh! Seen this before!" Its a little frustrating that they recycled so much, but the fact they went out of their way to pull more obscure levels is nice. Hell, Rooftop Run Act 2, a Bonus stage from Unleashed, is one of the layouts.
The same can be said with Dragon Road Act 3, or any of the SA2 And Unleashed levels we never saw again until this point, like Metal Harbor, Green Forest, Sky Rail and Savannah Citadel!!!
Well it's not a straight up port at least, they remade the levels from the ground up. Even if I recognize the levels they still feel different enough. *I don't encourage them doing this from here on, but still, fwiw, it's fine.*
As someone who does not own PS/XBox Sonic games, this gave me a chance to experience those popular levels. I was very happy with my time playing through these levels!!
Hard to beat the aestetics of Unleashed. I kind of wish they had used assets more close visually to the origin stage rather than green hills. Still, most of the cyberspace levels are pretty fun.
The existence of Generations act 2 Chemical Plant 3D and 2D being seperate stages means a boost level can have 2 different cyber space level With that in mind Cyber space 1-3 is the 2D section of Windmill Isle.
These reused stages were implemented just right. They're built so that they don't overstay their welcome or take much longer than necessary. That way, replaying them to complete the missions never feels like a chore.
Something else I have noticed is that they don't just reuse previous levels for cyberspace. Somewhere in the third island hub there is a rail grinding section that is almost exactly like windmill isle act 3. Just thought it was something interesting and makes me wonder if there are any other sections of the islands that are reused from previous games.
There's something thats so nostalgical and somber about these cyberspace levels. I guess its because as a kid I played through all these levels, and now I'm an adult playing through these fun remixes. Its this feeling of "wow im suddenly very aware of my age now". great video :)) these stages are so fun
Honestly did anyone get the impression that this game feels like Unleashed 2? Boost Sonic, Collecting items to progress the story, combat gameplay with rpg leveling up and a reference to Dark Gaia.
Windmill Isle act 3 also one of the stage's inspiration. The 2D rail sunset green hill paint. Also the drift level took inspiration from the Mazuri drift act.
Now that I think about it, both of the SA2 shadow stages being here are kinda contextualized in the story, if you think about it. Sonic actually HAS been to radical highway before, in Generations 3DS. So he could just be remembering all that. This possibly implies that both versions of Sonic Generations are canon to some degree, which I don't think that actually interferes with anything. Makes sense to me. And for Sky Rail, if you look at the map of the levels in Sonic Adventure 2, the only quick way to get over to Eggman's desert base is through the pumpkin hill/sky rail area. When Shadow went through sky rail, and was chasing the tornado, he only sees Tails in it. In addition, the old E3 2000 trailer shows sonic in sky rail. On top of that, Shadow starts off the level "directly in pursuit" of the tornado, and at the end of the level he has to wait for it to catch up. Implying that running through sky rail on foot is faster for Shadow/Sonic than taking the tornado. What I'm implying here is that Sonic never actually took the tornado to get to the pyramid base and went there on foot, because its faster and more fun for him. Meaning that Sonic actually went through the same level as Shadow, just at a slightly different time. And iirc it had already been theorized for a while that sky rail was originally meant to be a Sonic stage, but was changed to a Shadow stage to give the dark story some more balance in its gameplay types, and to give Shadow some screentime with less tension and internal conflict. So both of them are actually locations that makes sense for Sonic to remember.
I'll be honest, as soon as I got to 3-6 and realized it was Rooftop Run Act 2 from Unleashed, I instantly got ptsd from how many times I died when I was younger.
those launchers man wtf The iconic part of rooftop run was the narrow alley side-stepping and the aqueduct chase They instead recreated the worst part!!!
The DLC version of that stage was worse, if you’re going for an S rank in that stage you better have a lot of lives because most of the DLC stages in Sonic Unleashed don’t fuck around, especially Dragon Road.
Man as much as I like the cyberspace levels, it's kind of a bummer that it's mostly recycled from older Sonic games. Thanks for making this video, I was curious as to how similar the levels were to the older games!
This is such a good video, thank you for putting these together. I'm less familar with Generations and Unleashed than I am SA2, so I had kind of a funny sensation playing the game and near-instantly recognizing the SA2 levels, and then watching this and just seeing Frontiers levels when I'm watching you play the zones they're referencing 😋
After thinking about this for a while, something clicked as I'm watching these comparisons. If Cyberspace was indeed pulling memories from Sonic's mind, then clearly, Sonic remembers Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Sky Sanctuary, and whatever the hell the City thing was the most out of any Zone in his life, the AI behind reconstructing these locations had the highest success and accuracy rate. However, given that it is clear that Sonic also remembers a few stage layouts quite well, but NOT the locations, the AI simply attuned what it believes to be the closest fitting locale for that layout. As for the ones Sonic wasn't present in (such as Shadow's stages), most likely they were pulling from other people's memories to fill in the gaps.
I feel like this perfectly showcases the problem with cyberspace Even though it's the same level there is a visible speed difference between sonic in unleahsed and this game because the camera is slower and alot less dynamic as well as sonic's animations being stiffer and looking weightless
@@xscythe67 I’ve been hearing that a lot but I don’t see the resemblance Although there was a specific turn that reminded me of that stage Edit: okay, the second part definitely reminds me of Lethal Highway now
I know I should probably be talking about how lazy Sega is for doing this but honestly the Cyber Space levels reusing level design from previous games is really cool. Especially when it’s levels that were originally from non-boost games or Classic Sonic Generations levels because we get to see how these levels that weren’t designed around the boost formula translate into the boost formula (Sky Rail in particular works really well as a boost stage)
I remember playing through these particular levels that I would see if I could take the alternate paths from their original games and be giddy knowing the devs were expecting players to do so. When I went through Green Hill Zone Act 2, my first though was "can I still stomp down at the Buzzer bridge to the faster path towards the end?" That's when I knew the level designers paid careful attention to what works for each path (and what helps get S-Rank). Seriously, The moment I recognized the starting layout of Chemical Plant Act 2 I immediately jumped to the left path.
These cyberspace levels are coming from his memories, so it makes sense. In fact I never noticed that they shared similar level design except for maybe one or two levels. Is it lazy? I dunno. I just wish there were more than 4 level themes overall.
I think the funniest thing to happen to me was when I was playing 1-7 and my sister walked in. She's not a huge Sonic fan, yet she looked at me play and said "That's based on City Escape, isn't it?"
Everyone upset that they reused old stages is forgetting one thing: This is an OFFICIAL Sonic Team game that has successfully implemented the boost mechanic into classic Adventure style stages. I see this as an absolute win
They just had to make the boost less powerful than it was in previous games… I see the boost in Frontiers as like the 3D counterpart to the drop dash. A instant burst in speed to keep momentum.
I really wish that there were more level themes in Frontiers, cause most of the stages were themed like Greeen Hill and Chemical Plant, with a few looking like Sky Sanctuary or City themed
As far as I know the Cyberspace is Eggmans memory These are the most memorable stages for him: Green Hill: his first fight with Sonic Chemical Plant: Idk probably his favourite base that isn't in space Sky Sanctuary: His almost victory against Sonic, Tails and Knuckless and probably he thought Sinic was dead then (after the fight with Mecha Sonic) City: What if this is the city of his childhood? Make me think. Will we ever get a game about Eggman before he met Sonic? His childhood, how he learnt about the Emeralds Probably after the Colony ARK kaboomed he was younger than Maria. About 4 years I think. He probably was abandoned by his parents and raised in this City in an Orphanage. He was a very smart kid and was proud of his Grandpa he never saw, but heard about. He wanted to be like him. Because of his overweight, his smartness and because Gerald Robotnik became the enemy of the United Federation he was bullied by the other kids and called Eggman. One day he made an early prototype of the badnik (a Motobug, an Egg Pawn, or one of these things in the Sonic Movie) and attacked a kid. He ran away from the Orphanage. He travelled across the world, became evil and found his goal. He no longer wanted to be a scientist. He wanted revenge. He wanted to rule the world. He became popular. He was the Number 1 scientist who came out of nowhere. He was a millionaire. Then he finally had enough power to revenge. He found his bullies and killed them. Then he broke in his orphanage and killed some people. He killed the director that let the kids bully him back then. Then he saw a girl bullied by others. She looked like Sage and would later inspire him for making SAGE. Eggman decided to adopt her. Over time he became nicer, forget his evil side and lived a normal live despite leading Robotnik Industry and creating Goodniks. Again he wanted to become like Gerald when he was good and tried to find out what he did. Eggman made many expedition, found South Island and learned about ARK. G.U.N. found him and tried to kill him for destroying the Orphanage and trying to make experiments like Gerald. He escaped but SAGE was accidentally kill it. He lost his believe in humans, fired all his workers and got depression. One day he found a document of Gerald about the Chaos Emeralds. He had much money and Metal left, so he escaped to make a base on South Island and find the Emerlads. He build Scrap Brain Zone and tried to make a second space colony called Death Egg. Then he met Sonic on South Island. Sonic came up with the name Eggman and Eggman remembered how the kids called him Eggman. Sonic defeated Eggman (Sonic 1) but Eggman survived. Then the other games happen. To make kt short Eggman forgot Sage and humanity and over the time he get obsessed with the idea to defeat Sonic.
The "Eternal Highway Zone" had the best aesthetic. It was nostalgic and original. Sega should've used that design for all of the game's cyberspace levels. It matches Sonic's character.
Sonic Veteran's will handle sonic really good because they are familiar with the layout of the Cyberspace Levels because its been CTRL + C then CTRL + V
It is refreshing to see sonic levels that are non linear and have multiple paths you can take in 3D. Even if they are just recycled from adventure 2 I’d still take remakes of adventure 2 levels over whatever sonic forces did. I wouldn’t mind seeing more adventure 2 styled levels moving forward since they are fairly fun to run though again. I really hope sonic team did this as an exercise in good level design and how the levels from unleashed and adventure really are
Sonic Team doesn't want to acknowledge Sonic Adventure 1's existance. Sonic Adventure 2's Sonic levels were far more linear than the ones from Sonic Adventure (Speed Highway, Skydeck, Red Mountain...). Sonic Adventure 1's Sonic controls are more fluid than Adventure 2.
@@saricubra2867 considering that the Knuckles prequel short and his storyline from Frontiers draws heavily from SA1 (both even have Tikal in) the idea of Sega 'not wanting to acknowledge the existence' of SA1 is pretty laughable. It was also represented in Generations which is only three main series games ago.
It's insane to me that people are accepting and even praising the blatant and cheap reuse of multiple old level designs... If any other company or franchise did this, they would be laughed out of the room. But because this is sonic, people just accept it...
There’s two sides that I have on the cyberspace levels, on one hand it is incredibly lazy and uninventive that the level designs are mostly reused as well as the themes, however, on the other other hand, it makes sense to introduce new sonic fans to good level design even if it’s just in chunks, so when the next game eventually rolls around, there might be brand new level design that is on par with what generations and unleashed had to offer. In a sense, it’s sort of like a soft reboot.
I think it'd have been to keep the number of the cyberspace level on the screen while you play the footage as well. Man when you compare the speed and physics of the gens level, it just looks so much worse, like they had to change the curves of the slopes just because they could'nt work.
I played the whole game having played Sonic Adventure 2 and generations before multiple times. I did feel that feeling of deja vu, but never guesses the level design was exactly the same. Very interesting what they did.
@@game84cube Most of the levels on the last island are original. I think only 2 out of the 9 there are reused layouts. They’re actually some of the best levels in the game, so it really makes me wish Sonic Team could have had the resources to make more of those instead of making worse versions of great old level designs.
Guys, think about it this way; we got 30 forces size (length wise) stages, where 11 are unique and 19 are redos. The stages are designed better (and more open, at least compared to the last 10 years) so we get 11 decent stages in the game for those who want, plus updates on adventure 2 stages. I won't say SEGA should be able to get away with this obviously, but at least its a step in the right direction.
You know what? It really speaks numbers of the Generations level design when even with worse controls when compared to that game, it still managed to feel fun.
Sure love Sonic Team's excuse for reusing level layouts and Gens' level themes is that it's "Sonic's distorted memories!!!!" when the last couple are primarily brand new, some are ones you played as Shadow in the OG, and the 4th level theme is a brand new city vaguely resembling Speed Highway
Lazy or not this is a definite love letter to the fans for how they implemented old stages as boost levels. Especially the adventure stages. I swear I felt my inner child remembering the routes despite how different it looked. I applaud them. 👏
A lot of people compare Frontiers to Unleashed and I get why cause of the different collectables, Combat and Boost stages but it also has things from the adventure era like the spamable spin dash and multiple playable characters and They nailed it!
one thing i dont understand,these cyberspace levels are inspired in old levels,because in the lore,they are based in Sonic's memory. THEN WHY ARE SHADOW'S STAGES HERE?
This footage greatly demonstrates how much MASSACRED the levels are in Frontiers compared to originals like holy hell: Missing slide/duck move, dash not being able to destroy obstacles and enemies anymore also removes key features from some levels, missing QTE and air tricks from Unleashed/Generation levels, badly recreated tarsan stunts from green forest, no more moving platforms from marble garden in 2-7, missing enemies like electrocuting Spinners and SO much more! It really shows how much of a bad idea is to rip off levels from other different games, since they were made only for those games - each with their own design philosophies in mind. Identity is perhaps the most important thing in game design and this is exactly what Frontiers is deprived from. Props to the author for putting effort in this video btw! Great edit👍
I never understood one fact about two of these levels… all of them are taken FROM SONIC’S MEMORIES, some as the Act 1 and Act 2 from Gens can be explained like they’re saying Classic and Modern Sonic are back to one Sonic again. But Radical Highway and Sky Rail? We know those are SHADOW levels, Sonic wasn’t there before, how does he remember that?
Honestly Sonic is such an adventurer that I can hand wave that away as "He probably went there at some point and we just didn't see it". He does technically go there in the 2 Player mode of SA2, though that's hardly canon lol. I have more of an issue with the classic Sonic stages from Generations, since they've been saying that Classic Sonic is either from an alternative timeline created by the events of Generations or just straight up another Dimension. Sonic having these memories means the Mania timeline still ultimately goes through the exact same modern events in order for Frontiers to work, which also means that Mania Sonic lived through the events of Forces twice. Ugh, Sonic continuity makes my head hurt sometimes, best not to overthink it.
The memories thing is just an excuse to put no effort into the cyberspace levels. They can't even bother remembering that some of these stages weren't played by Sonic.
@@charms7232 Indeed, that is the cold truth behind it. At the same time, I wish they went further with it. Only really using levels from SA2, Unleashed and Generations? Come on. How about some Heroes or Rush levels, or even some 06 levels? Copying stage design sucks, but if you're going to do it you might as well reference more than 3 games.
Plus the highway stages being new make no sense, since it completely defeats the purpose of the context to the story where Cyberspace pulled Sonic’s memories and everything he remembers is played again. Also get rid of Green Hill and Chemical Plant and replace them with Frog Forest and Dragon Road.
I think that reusing the level designs is actually much more clever than simply remaking a level one-for-one. For instance, many of the levels that were "reused" had portions of them taken out and moved to other levels. That would require them to look at the old levels and find a way to recreate the levels in unique ways that didn't just make them 1-to-1 copies. While I do have a few issues with these Cyberspace levels, I wouldn't exactly call them "lazy." P.S. - One thing I noticed is that while Sonic supposedly knows each of the areas he's going through, a few of them (as shown by the video) are ones that only Shadow went through in SA2. I guess they overlooked that part :)
i always though the adventure formula and boost formula arent THAT different, just adventure is sometimes more "tight" especially in SA1, but SA2 are very hallway levels, thats why it works well with boost... overall boost is just an instant and permanent spindash.... they just nedded better turning when perform it to make it work perfect with SA2 levels... hope this inspired the level designers for a future games, and expand more the level design with new things that surprise us... and just hoping they made the stages a bit longer...
I know people would call it lazy, but it's just like in the song "LIVE AND LEARN Hanging on the edge of tomorrow LIVE AND LEARN By the works of yesterday" Also it make sense for lore. I don't played it to end, but I think the Cyberspace was created by Eggman's memory. Not the void itself but the layout. Eggman remembered a few things and his memory messed it up a bit.
Well at least there was a story reason for this. And since Sonic has been to Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Sky Sanctuary and City areas the most, those areas are engraved in his brain.
I feel like the fact there isnt more than 4 lvl themes is because of how small the team was for the game only being 60 i think the next game if they do have these kinda lvls we hopefully will have more themes to go with
Naw 60 employees working on this game isn’t the problem, it’s that they could’ve just simply not reuse Green Hill and Chemical Plant for the millionth time and replace them with 2 other old stages we haven’t had yet, not wasting their time making garbage like tsr, colors ultimate, and origins, and simply not become lazy and fix a lot of shit in this game.
What interests me is that there's a slide mechanic but to my knowledge, even after beating the game, not once even in these stages where it could be used is that mechanic ever needed or used...
For me, I'd take reusing good levels in the past over creating new, but boring and dull levels like Forces did. I just wish it wasn't overpopulated with the first 3 Generations locations, even if I understand why they did it like this.
So when I was playing frontiers for the first time I was playing through cyber space stages and was like some of these stages feel so familiar where have I played this before
People call it lazy or dumb to reuse level designs if you’ve recognized them but they already explain why most of them seemed familiar to sonic, despite the way they look. It’s all from his memory so the Cyberspace used that on him.
Yes the aesthetics are lazy but the actual level designs? In casw it wasn’t noticeable, they had to go out of their way to alter these levels whether it was moving up a specific set piece, rearranging things out of order, or completely cutting a chunk out and merge what’s left together. That’s not laziness. That took actual effort to do.
man... After this I have such a weird feeling... I almost wonder if it was harder to reconstruct them rather than just reuse some of them. And honestly I dislike the aesthetic aswell so it feels like whatever effort there was in remaking atleast some of the more recent boost levels was wasted... The greenhill act 2 comparison really does put it into perspective. They both have the greenhill zone aesthetic but look at how much more there is going on for the original. The grass feels so vibrant and colorful. The terrain feels less standardized and is just rough and course and feels like it's part of nature. Just look at the loop de loop at 2:19 there's patches of the road kinda making there way into the grass. The checkboard pattern on the sides also seem to sit higher and kinda feel like it's holding the dirt in like it's a brick wall kinda keeping it contained. The cave aesthetic being gone and being an open view to the cyberspace level during the rail section also just really put's it into perspective how the same concept with a difference in execution can really change something. There's a part of me that hopes that a modder will be able to pull something where you can like replace the cyberspace levels with their originals to some extent? I think the idea of cyberspace is good and I kinda like the concept of going down memory lane... But I feel like generation pulls off that idea waaaaaaay better and add's so much polish where as the cyberspace levels feel lacking? They just don't have any of the pizzaz the original had even when they aesthetics line up. I get that you could even argue that's the point of this aesthetic where everything is copy and pasted from his memmory and cyberspace is building a rough outline with hacked up and chopped of assets so to speak to potentially save on power... But it just feels like it lacks the energy the originals had and I just can't bring myself to enjoy it as much.
I looked very carefully, and these levels might seem familiar 1-3 has segments of sweet mountain 2-3 rooftop run act 1 3-4 windmill isle act 3 3-5 Savannah citadel act 2 4-2 could be speed highway or Empire city act 3 4-3 tropical jungle 4-4 new? 4-5 new? 4-7 through 4-9 new?
I gotta say, for all the reused level aesthetics being Green Hills, Chemical Plants, Sky Sanctuaries, and random cities, they did a good job mapping each theme to each layout's original stage. Only ones I'm iffy about are Green Forest (hills and forests are pretty different themes lmao) and especially Savannah Citadel (part of me thinks using the Forces Green Hill would've worked better if they had to pull from A Green Hill at all since the sand would've looked like barren land). I do wish they had more level themes at all, though. They're reusing City Escape's layout from SA2 when Generations, where they clearly pulled most of the other themes, literally has City Escape as well, so what was stopping them from pulling that one? Could've even pulled in Seaside Hill for Windmill Isle (and maybe Dragon Road?) to avoid being too Green Hill y. Also it makes no sense lore-wise for modern Sonic to go through Gens' Classic Sonic's stages. Or Shadow's SA2 stages, for that matter.
Classic Sonic is Modern Sonic from the past Sonic went through Radical Highway in Generations 3DS Sonic was going to go through Sky Rail originally in SA2, so who’s to say he never visited?
@@UltraSTH Classic Sonic was Modern Sonic until Generations itself happened, meaning Modern still never visited the actual Classic layouts of the stages themselves. (Remember: the events of Generations themselves felt weird to the Classic crew as well according to Classic Tails, meaning they aren't part of the existing past of Modern, as otherwise Modern Sonic AND Modern Tails would've remembered these events) The canonicity of Gens's 3DS port is already questionable as is. And if we never KNOW he actually visited, then it's safe to say he hasn't.
Replace Green Hill and Chemical Plant with Marble and Emerald Hill, add in Hill Top, Grand Metropolis, Casino Park, Windmill Isle, Savannah Citadel, and Cool Edge, and just name the city levels Skyscraper Scamper since they look identical to it.
@@calebproductions1264 Honestly, if they add the ressources to model them, yea I'd have taken that lineup. Most of them would need an upscale at the very least, if not brand new models (Marble [the only existing ones are Minecraft and Lego], Emerald Hill and Hill Top [I highly doubt they're taking these ones from Roblox of all places], Grand Metropolis [hasn't been seen since the GameCube]). With minor tweaks, the city levels could easily pass as Skyscraper Scamper (if they weren't already). Only one that could be done easily is Casino Park, thanks to Team Sonic Racing, of all things.
I mean cyberspace is supposed to be taking the layout from Sonics memory, so it kinda makes sense that the levels are laid out similarly to older places he’s visited. The only issue with that is that some of the levels copy Shadow’s stages and not Sonic’s
Even though their Aesthetics were gutted, I think Green Forest and Metal Harbor both were represented pretty well all things considered City Escape though... Yikes what a faceplant
You know, I was right there with everyone else talking about how this game reusing level design was bad, but after playing the game, it made for a surprisingly fun experience to try and guess which came from where. That might just be because this is my first time picking up a Sonic game in about a decade, so I've had time to forget a lot of stuff. I can see why long time Sonic fans would not get as much enjoyment out of it as me.
The only baffling thing to me is that only 4 "aesthetics" were used for every single one
I expected them to add more the further you got into the game, like imagine endgame ones with the Space Colony ARK aesthetics... Really missed opportunity.
Plus it confuses me on why the city levels are new when they’re literally pulled from Sonic’s memories, why couldn’t they just have them be called Skyscraper Scamper since the levels look identical?
I like to think frontiers will have a sequel just like botw and the will add throwbacks to other games, like sonic adventure, colors and heroes.
@@calebproductions1264 The level types are not named in-game AFAIK, so that'd be on the fans not recognizing the "highway" ones as Skyscraper Scamper. But to be fair they aren't as obvious as the others.
@@calebproductions1264 It's probably a combination of City Escape and Speed Highway amd Skyscraper Scamper but with new layout.
Also 1-7 is probably a bit of Westopolis. You know, the tanks ans helicopters
if they had an aesthetic for each island cyberspace levels it would probably be more memorable cus I literally cant remember any of the level numbers
HOW DID I NOT RECOGNIZE 1-2 AS WINDMILL ISLE, I'VE PLAYED THAT STAGE SO MANY TIMES!
Probably bc you were so focused on the S rank you forgot
@@richardperaza5083 Idk why that one stage in particular has such a hard S rank. I wonder if the devs thought it'd be funny just to just make the second cyberspace level a Mr. Perfect run.
Happened to me too, it's because the levels use some layouts from older games but a lot of them are not the exact same level, they add some new level sections too.
Dude same I was so focused in getting that S rank I didn't recognize it
Me toooo. Just yesterday I was trying to see if I could recognize the stages these were based on and 1-2 had me scratching my head for so long!
Hopefully making the cyber space levels will help educate the new level designers in Sonic Team on what is interesting and fun to play through. The original Cyber Space stages are neat too - I really like the skateboarding one.
The completely original stages have some really great level design, especially 4-2. It gives me faith that Sonic Team can still make well designed linear stages.
The skate boarding one is metal harbor. Started listening to the og music from each stage in this game. Need a mod for that
@@trashboat5388 They're talking about one of the last City Cyberspace stages where you're on a skateboard at the start and end
@@yetanotherhankhill1032 yep, thats the one - its the only one ive gone back to in arcade currently
How to make 1 minute levels or less? I doubt it. They even shortened the SA2 levels. City Escape is about 2 and half minute level
Hot take but I'm actually totally cool with Cyberspace reusing layouts. If it was the only thing in the game it would be unacceptable, but as a side activity to the main open world gameplay it's actually really cool playing through a level and being like "This seems familiar...wait I know this one!"
Specifically playing the SA2 levels with boost gameplay was such a unique experience. A real meshing of the different eras of the series that made things feel more connected than they've been for a long time.
also seeing familiar layouts but with different areas is cool. Metal Harbour, but inside of Chemical Plant, is awesome
@@monovailable tbh the theming is my only major complaint with these stages. I think having only four themes across the whole game is a little weak. Especially when three of those four themes have already been massively overdone in the franchise. It would've been cool to see themes reappear that we haven't seen in awhile. Like Red Mountain from SA1 or Rail Canyon from Heroes.
@@smoogieboogie1694 oh yeah definitely, but I still hold my point that seeing familiar layouts in different contexts is honestly really cool
@@monovailable Oh yeah definitely that part of it is cool. I'm just saying I would've liked to have seen more settings than the four to really mix things up. It might've been cool to match theming to each overworld. So Kronos Island could have all the grassy green levels like Green Hill, Green Forest, Angel Island. Ares Island could have desert levels like Savannah Citadel, Pyramid Cave, Rail Canyon, Sandopolis. Chaos Island could have volcanic/lava levels like Red Mountain, Lava Reef, Crisis City. And so on.
@@smoogieboogie1694 oh yeah that would've been awesome. It would've been cool to see Final Rush/Final Chase as one of the actual levels, just with different layout. I really liked the space themes. They could've been on Ouranos Island as a neat bit of foreshadowing lol
I find it crazy how Sonic Unleashed levels look SO MUCH better in most cases than the cyberspace levels, at least visually
And also that unleashed is two console generations behind frontiers
Timestamps:
0:00 - 1-1: Windmill Isle Act 1
0:47 - 1-2: Windmill Isle Act 2
1:51 - 1-4: Green Hill Act 2 (3D)
2:58 - 1-5: Chemical Plant Act 2 (3D)
3:51 - 1-6: Green Hill Act 1
5:18 - 1-7: City Escape (SA2)
6:16 - 2-1: Green Hill Act 2 (2D)
7:00 - 2-2: Dragon Road Act 3
7:48 - 2-4: Radical Highway
8:41 - 2-5: Sky Sanctuary Act 2 (2D)
9:38 - 2-6: Sky Rail
11:24 - 2-7: Sky Sanctuary Act 1
13:02 - 3-1: Green Forest
14:43 - 3-2: Savannah Citadel Act 1
15:58 - 3-3: Sky Sanctuary Act 2 (3D)
17:43 - 3-6: Rooftop Run Act 2 (Unleashed)
19:52 - 3-7: Chemical Plant Act 2 (2D)
21:27 - 4-1: Metal Harbor
23:02 - 4-6: Chemical Plant Act 1
3-5 Babylon Garden or Speedhigway drift section
4-9 is City escape the Board section
3-5 Could also be the Savannah Citadel Drift Mission.
@@Houndlock643 Yea I thought it was pretty similar too
@@Houndlock643 I never played colors, but I thought 3-5 would be from there, you even have the shiny particles.
@@GunravelT Nope. Go check out the stage Im taking about. Its a Day Stage and youre essentially drifting to the finish line.
I don’t care if it looks lazy, Sonic Team managed to implement Adventure Era stages into Boost levels and that’s amazing.
Personatly, I'm cool with seeing Adventure 2 stages and Generations classic stages because they give us the opportunity to see how do these stages translate into boost levels(even though there is a Sonic Generations mod that allows us to play the classic stages but that's not official so that doesn't count)
PS : "SEGA managed to implement Adventure Era stages into Boost levels and that’s amazing." you should not be congratulating SEGA, it's Sonic Team you should congratulate
It’s not that hard to do
This prove we can have adventure style levels with boost sonic
I think the idea of past stages coming back as bonuses would be cool, but the Generations level themes just feel a little pander-y. I think it'd probably be cooler if they just used a wholly original cyberspace theme or something. Still fun tho
There are 3 outlooks you can have while playing cyberspace levels.
"Oh, This is new!"
"Seen this before..."
"Oh! Seen this before!"
Its a little frustrating that they recycled so much, but the fact they went out of their way to pull more obscure levels is nice. Hell, Rooftop Run Act 2, a Bonus stage from Unleashed, is one of the layouts.
The same can be said with Dragon Road Act 3, or any of the SA2 And Unleashed levels we never saw again until this point, like Metal Harbor, Green Forest, Sky Rail and Savannah Citadel!!!
I didn't have an "oh! I've seen this before!" But I did have an "Oh! I've FELT this before!"
I quickly recognized Sky Rail's layout in one of these stages, and I've not played SA2 in two years.
@@sonicstar917 sky rail was the one that actually gave me that moment.
Well it's not a straight up port at least,
they remade the levels from the ground up.
Even if I recognize the levels they still feel different enough.
*I don't encourage them doing this from here on, but still, fwiw, it's fine.*
As someone who does not own PS/XBox Sonic games, this gave me a chance to experience those popular levels. I was very happy with my time playing through these levels!!
You can get these games on pc
Hard to beat the aestetics of Unleashed. I kind of wish they had used assets more close visually to the origin stage rather than green hills. Still, most of the cyberspace levels are pretty fun.
Green Hills looking a lot more like Savannah Citadel right now
Also, I came here to double check my memory, and I’m so sad, there’s no Sonic Rush stages
hahaha u funni
i don't even mind all the reused stuff. i just wish they maybe had more variety to which stages they picked
The existence of Generations act 2 Chemical Plant 3D and 2D being seperate stages means a boost level can have 2 different cyber space level
With that in mind
Cyber space 1-3 is the 2D section of Windmill Isle.
These reused stages were implemented just right. They're built so that they don't overstay their welcome or take much longer than necessary. That way, replaying them to complete the missions never feels like a chore.
Something else I have noticed is that they don't just reuse previous levels for cyberspace. Somewhere in the third island hub there is a rail grinding section that is almost exactly like windmill isle act 3. Just thought it was something interesting and makes me wonder if there are any other sections of the islands that are reused from previous games.
In 1-3 (or was it 1-4? The city level) remimds me Speed Highway Act 1 for classic Sonic in Generations
@@timgorg1919 1-3 is an original level (so it might be the one you're talking about)
1-4 is a 3D portion of generations greenhill
There's something thats so nostalgical and somber about these cyberspace levels. I guess its because as a kid I played through all these levels, and now I'm an adult playing through these fun remixes. Its this feeling of "wow im suddenly very aware of my age now". great video :)) these stages are so fun
9:43 How does Sonic remember Sky Rail if he never been there?
He doesn't. What they say in the story is just a lame excuse for reusing levels.
We know that tails at least flew through the area. Maybe sonic did do sky rail but we just never saw it.
Honestly did anyone get the impression that this game feels like Unleashed 2?
Boost Sonic, Collecting items to progress the story, combat gameplay with rpg leveling up and a reference to Dark Gaia.
Eggman and Sage's relationship also gave me big Sonic and Chip vibes.
Yes! And that may be why I enjoyed it so much, it's my second favorite Sonic game, Unleashed still holds that place
Thought I was the only one thinking that
The main difference here
Sonic can transition between speed and combat seamlessly
or use both.
Basically, Sonic Frontiers is a new Sonic Unleashed
And Sonic Forces is a new Sonic 2006
Windmill Isle act 3 also one of the stage's inspiration. The 2D rail sunset green hill paint. Also the drift level took inspiration from the Mazuri drift act.
Aww, no mention of the half-rep that Windmill Isle 3 got? 3-4 was one of my favs!
Now that I think about it, both of the SA2 shadow stages being here are kinda contextualized in the story, if you think about it.
Sonic actually HAS been to radical highway before, in Generations 3DS. So he could just be remembering all that.
This possibly implies that both versions of Sonic Generations are canon to some degree, which I don't think that actually interferes with anything. Makes sense to me.
And for Sky Rail, if you look at the map of the levels in Sonic Adventure 2, the only quick way to get over to Eggman's desert base is through the pumpkin hill/sky rail area. When Shadow went through sky rail, and was chasing the tornado, he only sees Tails in it. In addition, the old E3 2000 trailer shows sonic in sky rail.
On top of that, Shadow starts off the level "directly in pursuit" of the tornado, and at the end of the level he has to wait for it to catch up. Implying that running through sky rail on foot is faster for Shadow/Sonic than taking the tornado.
What I'm implying here is that Sonic never actually took the tornado to get to the pyramid base and went there on foot, because its faster and more fun for him. Meaning that Sonic actually went through the same level as Shadow, just at a slightly different time.
And iirc it had already been theorized for a while that sky rail was originally meant to be a Sonic stage, but was changed to a Shadow stage to give the dark story some more balance in its gameplay types, and to give Shadow some screentime with less tension and internal conflict.
So both of them are actually locations that makes sense for Sonic to remember.
I'll be honest, as soon as I got to 3-6 and realized it was Rooftop Run Act 2 from Unleashed, I instantly got ptsd from how many times I died when I was younger.
those launchers man wtf
The iconic part of rooftop run was the narrow alley side-stepping and the aqueduct chase
They instead recreated the worst part!!!
That was my exact reaction to 3-6 too!!! before I realized what it was, I was like "wait a minute, why do i suddnely feel like i'm in danger??"
The DLC version of that stage was worse, if you’re going for an S rank in that stage you better have a lot of lives because most of the DLC stages in Sonic Unleashed don’t fuck around, especially Dragon Road.
Interesting. SEGA should mash all levels together to make alternate routes
Man as much as I like the cyberspace levels, it's kind of a bummer that it's mostly recycled from older Sonic games. Thanks for making this video, I was curious as to how similar the levels were to the older games!
This is such a good video, thank you for putting these together. I'm less familar with Generations and Unleashed than I am SA2, so I had kind of a funny sensation playing the game and near-instantly recognizing the SA2 levels, and then watching this and just seeing Frontiers levels when I'm watching you play the zones they're referencing 😋
Wrecking my old nemesis, Metal Harbor, despite having these controls was one of the most cathartic moments I had in the Sonic franchise.
the best part is that it is technically the whole level of metal harbor
@@JReds-bw9kg srsly, and the controls are an improvement over SA2's in comparison.
After thinking about this for a while, something clicked as I'm watching these comparisons. If Cyberspace was indeed pulling memories from Sonic's mind, then clearly, Sonic remembers Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Sky Sanctuary, and whatever the hell the City thing was the most out of any Zone in his life, the AI behind reconstructing these locations had the highest success and accuracy rate. However, given that it is clear that Sonic also remembers a few stage layouts quite well, but NOT the locations, the AI simply attuned what it believes to be the closest fitting locale for that layout.
As for the ones Sonic wasn't present in (such as Shadow's stages), most likely they were pulling from other people's memories to fill in the gaps.
I feel like this perfectly showcases the problem with cyberspace
Even though it's the same level there is a visible speed difference between sonic in unleahsed and this game because the camera is slower and alot less dynamic as well as sonic's animations being stiffer and looking weightless
No power boost
@@miadatenshi9903what?
3-4 is Windmill Isle Act 3
3-5 is Savannah Citadel Act 2 (or Wisp Circuit from TSR)
4-5 is Cool Edge Act 4 + Dragon Road Act 1
4-9 is Lethal Highway apparently
4-9 is actually Lethal Highway's bike sections but with a city escape skateboard
@@xscythe67 I’ve been hearing that a lot but I don’t see the resemblance
Although there was a specific turn that reminded me of that stage
Edit: okay, the second part definitely reminds me of Lethal Highway now
I know I should probably be talking about how lazy Sega is for doing this but honestly the Cyber Space levels reusing level design from previous games is really cool. Especially when it’s levels that were originally from non-boost games or Classic Sonic Generations levels because we get to see how these levels that weren’t designed around the boost formula translate into the boost formula (Sky Rail in particular works really well as a boost stage)
I would agree but what we have in frontiers is such a bad example of boost the boost formula that it feels more like playing adventure
I've never played Generations, but I definitely want to at some point. Especially since 3-3 is one of my favorite levels in Frontiers.
Oh, it's definitely worth playing.
You defo should play Generations. It's like a game which only has Cyberspace levels but the levels are longer and Sonic controls way better.
Interesting to see the DLC levels of Sonic Unleashed here
Ikr, wasn't expecting that at all!!!
Those aren’t DLC, they’re the regular extra acts already within the base game.
I remember playing through these particular levels that I would see if I could take the alternate paths from their original games and be giddy knowing the devs were expecting players to do so. When I went through Green Hill Zone Act 2, my first though was "can I still stomp down at the Buzzer bridge to the faster path towards the end?" That's when I knew the level designers paid careful attention to what works for each path (and what helps get S-Rank). Seriously, The moment I recognized the starting layout of Chemical Plant Act 2 I immediately jumped to the left path.
These cyberspace levels are coming from his memories, so it makes sense. In fact I never noticed that they shared similar level design except for maybe one or two levels. Is it lazy? I dunno. I just wish there were more than 4 level themes overall.
you can write an excuse in the story for anything
However there are References to Shadow's Zones. So... How does sonic have memories of places he's never been?
I have no idea-
@@WindyREDPanda Sonic just caught the cyberspace levels from the internet
@@jumpstar64 the reason is because they couldn't be bothered making their own levels
"You are not the one in control" Ah, the mantra of Sonic Forces
Technically it's "Where we manage, record and control" but yeah
2-3 is the the 2D sections of Rooftop run right before you do the sky dive
I think the funniest thing to happen to me was when I was playing 1-7 and my sister walked in. She's not a huge Sonic fan, yet she looked at me play and said "That's based on City Escape, isn't it?"
Everyone upset that they reused old stages is forgetting one thing: This is an OFFICIAL Sonic Team game that has successfully implemented the boost mechanic into classic Adventure style stages. I see this as an absolute win
Same!!!
They just had to make the boost less powerful than it was in previous games… I see the boost in Frontiers as like the 3D counterpart to the drop dash. A instant burst in speed to keep momentum.
I really wish that there were more level themes in Frontiers, cause most of the stages were themed like Greeen Hill and Chemical Plant, with a few looking like Sky Sanctuary or City themed
As far as I know the Cyberspace is Eggmans memory
These are the most memorable stages for him:
Green Hill: his first fight with Sonic
Chemical Plant: Idk probably his favourite base that isn't in space
Sky Sanctuary: His almost victory against Sonic, Tails and Knuckless and probably he thought Sinic was dead then (after the fight with Mecha Sonic)
City: What if this is the city of his childhood?
Make me think. Will we ever get a game about Eggman before he met Sonic?
His childhood, how he learnt about the Emeralds
Probably after the Colony ARK kaboomed he was younger than Maria. About 4 years I think.
He probably was abandoned by his parents and raised in this City in an Orphanage.
He was a very smart kid and was proud of his Grandpa he never saw, but heard about. He wanted to be like him.
Because of his overweight, his smartness and because Gerald Robotnik became the enemy of the United Federation he was bullied by the other kids and called Eggman. One day he made an early prototype of the badnik (a Motobug, an Egg Pawn, or one of these things in the Sonic Movie) and attacked a kid. He ran away from the Orphanage.
He travelled across the world, became evil and found his goal. He no longer wanted to be a scientist. He wanted revenge. He wanted to rule the world. He became popular. He was the Number 1 scientist who came out of nowhere. He was a millionaire. Then he finally had enough power to revenge. He found his bullies and killed them. Then he broke in his orphanage and killed some people. He killed the director that let the kids bully him back then. Then he saw a girl bullied by others. She looked like Sage and would later inspire him for making SAGE. Eggman decided to adopt her. Over time he became nicer, forget his evil side and lived a normal live despite leading Robotnik Industry and creating Goodniks. Again he wanted to become like Gerald when he was good and tried to find out what he did. Eggman made many expedition, found South Island and learned about ARK. G.U.N. found him and tried to kill him for destroying the Orphanage and trying to make experiments like Gerald. He escaped but SAGE was accidentally kill it.
He lost his believe in humans, fired all his workers and got depression. One day he found a document of Gerald about the Chaos Emeralds. He had much money and Metal left, so he escaped to make a base on South Island and find the Emerlads. He build Scrap Brain Zone and tried to make a second space colony called Death Egg. Then he met Sonic on South Island. Sonic came up with the name Eggman and Eggman remembered how the kids called him Eggman. Sonic defeated Eggman (Sonic 1) but Eggman survived. Then the other games happen. To make kt short Eggman forgot Sage and humanity and over the time he get obsessed with the idea to defeat Sonic.
@@timgorg1919 I don't think that person asked for your fanfiction.
@@sassymetalsonic5870 It is a seven month old comment
@@timgorg1919 So?
@@sassymetalsonic5870 And I explained my view on this 7 months ago.
The "Eternal Highway Zone" had the best aesthetic. It was nostalgic and original. Sega should've used that design for all of the game's cyberspace levels. It matches Sonic's character.
It’s like they thought “We’re gonna make the best 3D sonic game & we’re gonna do it by including levels from 3 of the best 3D sonic games.” Genius
Sonic Veteran's will handle sonic really good because they are familiar with the layout of the Cyberspace Levels because its been CTRL + C then CTRL + V
I’m actually glad I wasn’t the only one who realized the references. Although, I am actually glad I wasn’t the only one who realized the references.
It is refreshing to see sonic levels that are non linear and have multiple paths you can take in 3D. Even if they are just recycled from adventure 2 I’d still take remakes of adventure 2 levels over whatever sonic forces did. I wouldn’t mind seeing more adventure 2 styled levels moving forward since they are fairly fun to run though again. I really hope sonic team did this as an exercise in good level design and how the levels from unleashed and adventure really are
Sonic Team doesn't want to acknowledge Sonic Adventure 1's existance.
Sonic Adventure 2's Sonic levels were far more linear than the ones from Sonic Adventure (Speed Highway, Skydeck, Red Mountain...). Sonic Adventure 1's Sonic controls are more fluid than Adventure 2.
@@saricubra2867 considering that the Knuckles prequel short and his storyline from Frontiers draws heavily from SA1 (both even have Tikal in) the idea of Sega 'not wanting to acknowledge the existence' of SA1 is pretty laughable. It was also represented in Generations which is only three main series games ago.
When I noticed Metal Harbor, I started grinning from ear to ear. My boy was back!
Too bad the phoenix didn't rise with it.
It's insane to me that people are accepting and even praising the blatant and cheap reuse of multiple old level designs...
If any other company or franchise did this, they would be laughed out of the room. But because this is sonic, people just accept it...
I love all of the level featured!!! (Well, MOST of them...)
that feeling when game from 2008 graphicly looks much more juicy that joke from 2023
There’s two sides that I have on the cyberspace levels, on one hand it is incredibly lazy and uninventive that the level designs are mostly reused as well as the themes, however, on the other other hand, it makes sense to introduce new sonic fans to good level design even if it’s just in chunks, so when the next game eventually rolls around, there might be brand new level design that is on par with what generations and unleashed had to offer. In a sense, it’s sort of like a soft reboot.
I hope the next game won't reintroduce new players again lol
Couldn't they introduce new Sonic fans to those old levels through remasters and put new stages in the new game instead?
@@DemonDethchase no, that would make too much sense
@@DemonDethchase I get that, but we don’t want another Sonic Colors Ultimate or Sonic Origins scenario again do we?
@@ThibautMahringer trust me they will.
I think it'd have been to keep the number of the cyberspace level on the screen while you play the footage as well.
Man when you compare the speed and physics of the gens level, it just looks so much worse, like they had to change the curves of the slopes just because they could'nt work.
watching gens and unleashed footage after playing frontiers makes you realise how slow he really is in frontiers
Cool video. I thought I got a weird sense of deja vu from some of these zones, and not just the aesthetics.
I played the whole game having played Sonic Adventure 2 and generations before multiple times. I did feel that feeling of deja vu, but never guesses the level design was exactly the same. Very interesting what they did.
You put more effort into making this than sonic team put into making cyberspace
Sonic team did but effort in cyberspace cause their are original ones
@@Jamyjams2009 yeah, like 4-3... I think. I swear, it reminds me of something, but I'm drawing a blank
@@game84cube Most of the levels on the last island are original. I think only 2 out of the 9 there are reused layouts. They’re actually some of the best levels in the game, so it really makes me wish Sonic Team could have had the resources to make more of those instead of making worse versions of great old level designs.
I swear this game is more generations than generations
Guys, think about it this way; we got 30 forces size (length wise) stages, where 11 are unique and 19 are redos. The stages are designed better (and more open, at least compared to the last 10 years) so we get 11 decent stages in the game for those who want, plus updates on adventure 2 stages. I won't say SEGA should be able to get away with this obviously, but at least its a step in the right direction.
There's less than 11 unique stages. Some just weren't covered in this video.
Neato!! ❤ nice comparisons here
You know what? It really speaks numbers of the Generations level design when even with worse controls when compared to that game, it still managed to feel fun.
I enjoyed unleashed levels with better(not perfect) control. And the moment i noticed "wow this is city escape!" Was amazing
Seeing as I missed out on Generations and the beefy console Unleashed titles, I'd find most of these new!
The first one of these that made me go like "Wait a minute... I've played this before..." Was green forest because of those platforms
Sure love Sonic Team's excuse for reusing level layouts and Gens' level themes is that it's "Sonic's distorted memories!!!!" when the last couple are primarily brand new, some are ones you played as Shadow in the OG, and the 4th level theme is a brand new city vaguely resembling Speed Highway
I didnt notice in any of them except greenhill act 2, the visuals kept the mental correlation from happening
Lazy or not this is a definite love letter to the fans for how they implemented old stages as boost levels. Especially the adventure stages. I swear I felt my inner child remembering the routes despite how different it looked. I applaud them. 👏
A lot of people compare Frontiers to Unleashed and I get why cause of the different collectables, Combat and Boost stages but it also has things from the adventure era like the spamable spin dash and multiple playable characters and They nailed it!
one thing i dont understand,these cyberspace levels are inspired in old levels,because in the lore,they are based in Sonic's memory.
THEN WHY ARE SHADOW'S STAGES HERE?
Don't forget that 2D rail level that it's inspired from Sonic Lost World (I think it's named Sea Bottom Segue)
Which one?
I get reminded more of Windmill Isle Act 3 from Unleashed (the extra act where you only grind rail).
I guess this is one way to get the most of your pre made assets...
This footage greatly demonstrates how much MASSACRED the levels are in Frontiers compared to originals like holy hell: Missing slide/duck move, dash not being able to destroy obstacles and enemies anymore also removes key features from some levels, missing QTE and air tricks from Unleashed/Generation levels, badly recreated tarsan stunts from green forest, no more moving platforms from marble garden in 2-7, missing enemies like electrocuting Spinners and SO much more!
It really shows how much of a bad idea is to rip off levels from other different games, since they were made only for those games - each with their own design philosophies in mind. Identity is perhaps the most important thing in game design and this is exactly what Frontiers is deprived from.
Props to the author for putting effort in this video btw! Great edit👍
I never understood one fact about two of these levels… all of them are taken FROM SONIC’S MEMORIES, some as the Act 1 and Act 2 from Gens can be explained like they’re saying Classic and Modern Sonic are back to one Sonic again.
But Radical Highway and Sky Rail? We know those are SHADOW levels, Sonic wasn’t there before, how does he remember that?
Honestly Sonic is such an adventurer that I can hand wave that away as "He probably went there at some point and we just didn't see it". He does technically go there in the 2 Player mode of SA2, though that's hardly canon lol. I have more of an issue with the classic Sonic stages from Generations, since they've been saying that Classic Sonic is either from an alternative timeline created by the events of Generations or just straight up another Dimension. Sonic having these memories means the Mania timeline still ultimately goes through the exact same modern events in order for Frontiers to work, which also means that Mania Sonic lived through the events of Forces twice.
Ugh, Sonic continuity makes my head hurt sometimes, best not to overthink it.
The memories thing is just an excuse to put no effort into the cyberspace levels. They can't even bother remembering that some of these stages weren't played by Sonic.
@@charms7232 Indeed, that is the cold truth behind it.
At the same time, I wish they went further with it. Only really using levels from SA2, Unleashed and Generations? Come on. How about some Heroes or Rush levels, or even some 06 levels? Copying stage design sucks, but if you're going to do it you might as well reference more than 3 games.
Plus the highway stages being new make no sense, since it completely defeats the purpose of the context to the story where Cyberspace pulled Sonic’s memories and everything he remembers is played again.
Also get rid of Green Hill and Chemical Plant and replace them with Frog Forest and Dragon Road.
You missed a few. 3-5 which is an Unleashed layout and 4-9 which is the start of City Escape from Adventure 2.
I think that reusing the level designs is actually much more clever than simply remaking a level one-for-one. For instance, many of the levels that were "reused" had portions of them taken out and moved to other levels. That would require them to look at the old levels and find a way to recreate the levels in unique ways that didn't just make them 1-to-1 copies. While I do have a few issues with these Cyberspace levels, I wouldn't exactly call them "lazy."
P.S. - One thing I noticed is that while Sonic supposedly knows each of the areas he's going through, a few of them (as shown by the video) are ones that only Shadow went through in SA2. I guess they overlooked that part :)
i always though the adventure formula and boost formula arent THAT different, just adventure is sometimes more "tight" especially in SA1, but SA2 are very hallway levels, thats why it works well with boost... overall boost is just an instant and permanent spindash.... they just nedded better turning when perform it to make it work perfect with SA2 levels... hope this inspired the level designers for a future games, and expand more the level design with new things that surprise us... and just hoping they made the stages a bit longer...
I know people would call it lazy, but it's just like in the song
"LIVE AND LEARN
Hanging on the edge of tomorrow
LIVE AND LEARN
By the works of yesterday"
Also it make sense for lore.
I don't played it to end, but I think the Cyberspace was created by Eggman's memory. Not the void itself but the layout. Eggman remembered a few things and his memory messed it up a bit.
Well at least there was a story reason for this. And since Sonic has been to Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Sky Sanctuary and City areas the most, those areas are engraved in his brain.
Copying Shadow's stage with distinctly Drum and Bass like beats was a really subtle but cool move.
It's too bad the cyberspace levels were fucking abysmal compared to Unleashed/Generations...
I had so much fun playing stages once it hit me it was a SA2 stage, don't mind the reuse at all because enough of them still felt new/unfamiliar.
I'm ngl I had the biggest stupidest smile my face when I got to the metal harbor recreation
I love the cyberspace graphics especially Sky Sanctuary and the city
TBH, I kinda wish there was more variety in where they pulled elements from.
Would've been cool to see stuff from Heroes or something
I also wanted that, and also seeing again Stages from SA1, Sonic '06 and even Shadow, that would have been so cool to see!!!
I feel like the fact there isnt more than 4 lvl themes is because of how small the team was for the game only being 60 i think the next game if they do have these kinda lvls we hopefully will have more themes to go with
Yknow if sega gives sonic team more members and a bigger budget
Naw 60 employees working on this game isn’t the problem, it’s that they could’ve just simply not reuse Green Hill and Chemical Plant for the millionth time and replace them with 2 other old stages we haven’t had yet, not wasting their time making garbage like tsr, colors ultimate, and origins, and simply not become lazy and fix a lot of shit in this game.
What interests me is that there's a slide mechanic but to my knowledge, even after beating the game, not once even in these stages where it could be used is that mechanic ever needed or used...
17:42 I’m sorry, you forgot both 3-4 AND 3-5, which both copy Unleash’s Windmill Isle 3 AND Savana Citadel Act 2?!
For me, I'd take reusing good levels in the past over creating new, but boring and dull levels like Forces did.
I just wish it wasn't overpopulated with the first 3 Generations locations, even if I understand why they did it like this.
In hindsight it especially sucks because now we also have a remaster of generations...
1-1 the final spiral shows how much SLOWER Frontiers is in cyberspace...oof
I dont find much issue with the adventure stages but dear god I wish they would stop reusing generation assets and stage design.
So when I was playing frontiers for the first time I was playing through cyber space stages and was like some of these stages feel so familiar where have I played this before
It is like these levels are being re-created from memory (In universe), but that memory is just a little off here and there.
People call it lazy or dumb to reuse level designs if you’ve recognized them but they already explain why most of them seemed familiar to sonic, despite the way they look. It’s all from his memory so the Cyberspace used that on him.
That doesn't necessarily make it not lazy, it just means they attempted to justify the reuse lol
Narrative speaking, you could theorise the cyberspace is using sonic memories the way our Dreams take reference of our daylife
That's, quite literally what it does. Sage flat out says so on Ouranos.
Yes the aesthetics are lazy but the actual level designs? In casw it wasn’t noticeable, they had to go out of their way to alter these levels whether it was moving up a specific set piece, rearranging things out of order, or completely cutting a chunk out and merge what’s left together. That’s not laziness. That took actual effort to do.
man... After this I have such a weird feeling... I almost wonder if it was harder to reconstruct them rather than just reuse some of them. And honestly I dislike the aesthetic aswell so it feels like whatever effort there was in remaking atleast some of the more recent boost levels was wasted... The greenhill act 2 comparison really does put it into perspective.
They both have the greenhill zone aesthetic but look at how much more there is going on for the original. The grass feels so vibrant and colorful. The terrain feels less standardized and is just rough and course and feels like it's part of nature. Just look at the loop de loop at 2:19 there's patches of the road kinda making there way into the grass. The checkboard pattern on the sides also seem to sit higher and kinda feel like it's holding the dirt in like it's a brick wall kinda keeping it contained.
The cave aesthetic being gone and being an open view to the cyberspace level during the rail section also just really put's it into perspective how the same concept with a difference in execution can really change something.
There's a part of me that hopes that a modder will be able to pull something where you can like replace the cyberspace levels with their originals to some extent? I think the idea of cyberspace is good and I kinda like the concept of going down memory lane... But I feel like generation pulls off that idea waaaaaaay better and add's so much polish where as the cyberspace levels feel lacking? They just don't have any of the pizzaz the original had even when they aesthetics line up. I get that you could even argue that's the point of this aesthetic where everything is copy and pasted from his memmory and cyberspace is building a rough outline with hacked up and chopped of assets so to speak to potentially save on power... But it just feels like it lacks the energy the originals had and I just can't bring myself to enjoy it as much.
Honestly, I see this mostly as a win. You get to play older levels with a completely new play style.
I looked very carefully, and these levels might seem familiar
1-3 has segments of sweet mountain
2-3 rooftop run act 1
3-4 windmill isle act 3
3-5 Savannah citadel act 2
4-2 could be speed highway or Empire city act 3
4-3 tropical jungle
4-4 new?
4-5 new?
4-7 through 4-9 new?
I gotta say, for all the reused level aesthetics being Green Hills, Chemical Plants, Sky Sanctuaries, and random cities, they did a good job mapping each theme to each layout's original stage. Only ones I'm iffy about are Green Forest (hills and forests are pretty different themes lmao) and especially Savannah Citadel (part of me thinks using the Forces Green Hill would've worked better if they had to pull from A Green Hill at all since the sand would've looked like barren land).
I do wish they had more level themes at all, though. They're reusing City Escape's layout from SA2 when Generations, where they clearly pulled most of the other themes, literally has City Escape as well, so what was stopping them from pulling that one? Could've even pulled in Seaside Hill for Windmill Isle (and maybe Dragon Road?) to avoid being too Green Hill y.
Also it makes no sense lore-wise for modern Sonic to go through Gens' Classic Sonic's stages. Or Shadow's SA2 stages, for that matter.
Radical Highway was in Generations 3DS, if you want to stretch it that far
Classic Sonic is Modern Sonic from the past
Sonic went through Radical Highway in Generations 3DS
Sonic was going to go through Sky Rail originally in SA2, so who’s to say he never visited?
@@UltraSTH Classic Sonic was Modern Sonic until Generations itself happened, meaning Modern still never visited the actual Classic layouts of the stages themselves. (Remember: the events of Generations themselves felt weird to the Classic crew as well according to Classic Tails, meaning they aren't part of the existing past of Modern, as otherwise Modern Sonic AND Modern Tails would've remembered these events)
The canonicity of Gens's 3DS port is already questionable as is.
And if we never KNOW he actually visited, then it's safe to say he hasn't.
Replace Green Hill and Chemical Plant with Marble and Emerald Hill, add in Hill Top, Grand Metropolis, Casino Park, Windmill Isle, Savannah Citadel, and Cool Edge, and just name the city levels Skyscraper Scamper since they look identical to it.
@@calebproductions1264 Honestly, if they add the ressources to model them, yea I'd have taken that lineup. Most of them would need an upscale at the very least, if not brand new models (Marble [the only existing ones are Minecraft and Lego], Emerald Hill and Hill Top [I highly doubt they're taking these ones from Roblox of all places], Grand Metropolis [hasn't been seen since the GameCube]). With minor tweaks, the city levels could easily pass as Skyscraper Scamper (if they weren't already).
Only one that could be done easily is Casino Park, thanks to Team Sonic Racing, of all things.
I mean cyberspace is supposed to be taking the layout from Sonics memory, so it kinda makes sense that the levels are laid out similarly to older places he’s visited. The only issue with that is that some of the levels copy Shadow’s stages and not Sonic’s
Even though their Aesthetics were gutted, I think Green Forest and Metal Harbor both were represented pretty well all things considered
City Escape though... Yikes what a faceplant
HOO boy that first part of windmill act 2 is a really good showcase of how jank cyberspace physics are.
Frontiers was my first sonic game as ive only played the 2d games on Megadrive and Gameboy advance so i dident know that these were not orginal stages
You know, I was right there with everyone else talking about how this game reusing level design was bad, but after playing the game, it made for a surprisingly fun experience to try and guess which came from where. That might just be because this is my first time picking up a Sonic game in about a decade, so I've had time to forget a lot of stuff. I can see why long time Sonic fans would not get as much enjoyment out of it as me.