From having a covert best friend I found her top 5 signs were 1. Victim mentality 2. Constantly put others down 3. Always tried to dominate others to feel secure 4. Moody 99% of the time 5. Didn’t seem to have an adult understanding of empathy, love, morals I’ll give you another 5 for free 6. Was very paranoid would ask questions in multiple ways to see if you gave same answer 7 jealous of other friendships 8. Materialistic 9. Poor relationship with family 10. She would twist my words and try to convince me the false reality was real
I would disagree with few you listed, 6. asking questions in different ways to see if you get the same answer is actually a technique used for interrogations (police, military etc) 8. Not necessarily, some can be surface level, unless you mean it´s the only thing they seek. 9. The family could be toxic and you made the decision to remove yourself from a toxic space. 10. Ahh well maybe, I´ve dealt with this one, and what I´ve done was call her out on it, bring up a past memory where both know you were right about and then make it clear that your memory is just fine, watch how fast she´ll shut up or she´ll bring up another topic, if she does she knows she´s wrong about it and her little game won´t work with you. Then ask her about the new topic and don´t dwell on your W... 11. Taking advantage of others for personal gain. 12. Resistance to change. Unable to self reflect/improve (because they see nothing wrong with themselves) 13. Sensitive to critique 14. Never/always (Extreme words like “Always” and “Never” can also hurt others. When talking to relationship partners, for example, using these extreme terms to prove your point immediately puts someone else on the defensive, and downplays or ignores the work that they did (or did not) do.) 15. Seeing things black/white 16. A tendency to put themselves down ( so you can lift them up) .......
@@Proposal12 well you can disagree with whatever you like that’s your personal experience and as she is NOT the police it is not normal behaviour to interrogate people like she is the police and that they owe her explanations to their personal lives.
@@Proposal12 she does only seek material things everything comes back to how much more she has than others treating people as objects based on social status, looking down on others because of wealth
For me, the covert narcissist comes across as a people pleaser. They like to be in the spotlight to get the validation that they crave for, as other narcissists but at the same time, they pretend to be humble, simple, generous, over giving. The covert narcissist will take time to build a relationship/friendship with you. During this period, they will show their admiration and their devotion by helping you with everything that is you need. They will try to convince you that you are soulmates and that they understand you deeply. At the same time, you will see them being overly altruistic, maybe helping society by engaging in charities, activism. They feed the poor, take care of the homeless. All this makes you think how lucky you are for having met such a beautiful soul. You want to be by their side for ever. However, soon you notice how much they enjoy being invited in galas to talk about their achievements. But they don’t admit that. They still play the humble guy who doesn’t want all this. Who is beyond money, beyond fame and recognition, who wants to share the floor with other people. But their acts don’t match their words. You come to realise that this selfless soul is actually doing whatever it takes to be in the centre of attention. When you do something together be it at work or at home, they want to control everything about it. They just exerce their control in a more polite and implicit way, making you believe that your voice was heard whereas in reality you did what they wanted you to do. Covert narcissists have a smooth way of leading you on. They don’t shout, they don’t give orders. They are master actors. They convince you that you are together in this. What makes them a narcissist is that when the time comes for them to use you in order to draw certain benefits, they will do it without a second thought and you are not going to believe in your eyes. And when you stand up for yourself and raise your voice against them calling them for their phony identity, then you will see their rage for the first time and the mask will fall. Covert narcissists manipulate less with rage/exhibiting superiority and more with people pleasing behaviour/playing the eternal victim. They are not aggressive as overt narcissists. They are more cunning. What they both have in common is self-centered ness and lack of empathy. In the case of coverts, it will take you longer to find out.They knew what they wanted to get out of you from the beginning. They created a whole theatre play to fool you about who they are and their true motives. You will trust them with all your heart but when the time comes for them to prove their loyalty by choosing your bond over their personal gain, they will choose the latter with no remorse, without even taking any responsibility. Unlike the overt narcissist, they will have an eloquent excuse for doing so, rationalizing why they had to f@ck you over. They will pretend to be sorry about it because this is something that matches the image of modesty that they want to project but in reality they are not sorry at all. You will see them partying with your own money when they said they didn’t have enough to pay you back. You will see them being unfair and untrustworthy to other people as well. When the mask of the victim will fall, you will see the cruel smile of a perpetrator who managed to get what they want without deserving it. If you decide to unmask them run for your life. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done Metaspyhub@gmail. com,,
To add to this video and your comment, they're very needy and obsessive from the beginning (example: wants to follow you everywhere, calling you all day, praises you a little too much, telling you that they look up to you without truly knowing who you are), childish/irresponsible (which explains why they're constantly complaining because even the simplest things don't come easy to them). You'll repeat yourself a lot when talking to them (as if you're talking to a toddler by walking them through the conversation, because they're lacking comprehension skills), nothing seems to be going right for them in their lives (literally). They don't know how to laugh at themselves and take life too seriously, thinks everyone's jealous of them but it's the opposite. "Everyone" either loves them or can't stand them. They jump into things without thinking them through but would pass it off as they were just trying to "help" someone.
The are nice to you when other people are around or when you go on double dates.. if you are alone with them it’s questioning that has a paranoid critical view but called “communication,” it’s back handed compliments, its Helpful criticism and if you get even annoyed by their behavior watch out! They will blow up all over you.
Wow , I just got out of what I believe was a convert narcissistic relationship, what you wrote is EXACTLY what he was - to the t!!!! I appreciate this so much, still feel like my compass is off, and I am trying to get my life back in order. Thank you !!!
Withdrawal from the world doesn't necessarily mean it's due to narcissism... Narcissistic abuse for EVER and A DAY can cause the same. The world is dangerous when you realize you don't have boundaries to keep yourself safe.
There's an audiobook, Complex PTSD, on TH-cam which talks about one type of person who've had a crappy childhood who isolate as a result: they are people who believe others are dangerous ... and can find great solace in being alone ... but at same time are hiding & concealing their wounds from themselves. He says it can be difficult for them to go to therapy, or decelop a healing intimacy, but he mentions a few other healing modalities ....
My thoughts too. Withdrawal does not equal narcissism necessarily. It can also be about withdrawing from volunteering for narcissistic abuse, and developing better boundaries for functioning in a world full of narcissists!
Absolutely agree. When you’ve experienced narc or toxic people most of your life and then the lightbulb goes off, of course you now will develop a need to shut off the world. At least for awhile while your healing.
I would say the first sign will come from your own gut feeling which will send signal to your body telling you that this person doesn't make you feel comfortable being around him/her. The fact that you are already asking this question should alert you to be careful. Something will feel off and you won't know what it is exactly. Covert narcissists can act very charming in the beginning but there will be often also present underlying sense of superiority about them. That sense is actually deriving from them feeling insecure about themselves, so they tend to quietly degrade others in order to feel better about themselves. On the other hand if covert narcissist feels that you are above his league, he will act like your servant, trying to please you - almost annoying in a way. But make no mistake. If you decide to stay in a relationship with him, he will downgrade you and abuse you like all the others. Because in his mind, if you love him, he thinks you are unworthy of him. Covert narcissists hate themselves so if someone loves them, than they think this person is worth less than them and that they can do better. Other sign to look for is any kind of judgment towards others. If he criticises other frequently, he will more likely criticise you as well once he gets more comfortable around you. Pay attention to how he treats people that are dependent on him as well. Narcissists hate those especially if they can't get anything of of that for themselves. Additionally, Infidelity in marriages is not limited to men; women can be just as likely to cheat. If you suspect your wife of being unfaithful, it's important to observe her behavior discreetly. One of the key ways to identify possible infidelity on social platforms is by closely monitoring how she behaves online. Some common signs include spending excessive time on apps without a reasonable explanation and becoming overly defensive when questioned about it. If her behavior has changed recently and she continues to spend more time on social media, it may be time to take action. With the assistance of a private investigator, such as METASPYHUB@GMAIL. COM, you can uncover who she’s communicating with and what is occupying her time on these platforms.
I would add a footnote to number three. In addition to the eye-rolling and cutting you off in conversation, if, perchance you were talking about something positive that happened to you, they will take a moment to pop your balloon, then, of course go back to hijacking the conversation.
Had he actually listened to me and gotten to know me mine would have known that cutting me off, especially aggressively, shouting me down and talking over me are MAJOR triggers for me going back to early childhood. But doing these things made it so much easier to walk away. No contact. Last conversation after (deliberately) going quiet and agreeing w him to be able to extricate myself from this bile I hung up the phone and said out loud, "you just made that decision easy dude.". Not a word from me after that.
On point 5. There's another layer to that. Sometimes they're great at doing the things a friend would do. Sometimes even to a degree of overcompensation. The difference with them? They're keeping score. They remember each and every thing they did for you. Its all transactional.
So great about the yawning, Richard! I have never heard anyone mention it. I had a friend however (for decades, I hardly dare to admit it) who would call me and talk about herself, her life, the lives of her grown children, her plans to write a book, her connections, her opinions, non-stop, finally running out of steam and coming to the point of "And with you - everything o.k.?" I would feel provoked to jump out of my paralyzed state and tentativly start a sentence, maybe two...I could hear by her sudden silence that she had already checked out. And then she would YAWN, noisily, without shame, again and again. I would feel embarrassed for burdening her with my existence, and would keep everything very brief. Invariably she would cut things short anyway. She really had to go now, this call had gone on way too long, she had to get on with her important life - insinuating that the delay was all my fault. I always felt horrible afterwards, smacked, humiliated, used. There came a point where I called her on her bullshit, in regard to a particular issue. How did I dare to question her motives! I have never heard from her since. But yes, the YAWNING....so maddening.
Just give them a taste of their own medicine and test them and how they react. I had a similar experience, known him 30 yrs and yet always had the feeling he never really knew who I was what I did at work or my interests etc. strange
I had a friend exactly like this. I just stopped answering her calls. I felt completely drained after speaking to her. She’s totally unaware. The yawning pissed me off tho🙄
Yep , my ex did that , i knew why as i had done research , example , why does my husband do this etc ? I already knew , i just sussed it , but the answers already confirmed what i thought
I have faced the same devaluation by yawning multiple times .At first was very annoying but then l started to just ignore or tease them by saying something that could made them wonder if the comment was about them or not, or yawning too at them😁mouahahaha😁
@troll23 - man I really felt that. I’ve been there, feeling awful for being a burden with having talked a few sentences worth interjecting in a hour long conversation where someone was doing most of the talking… if I ever yawned, I would immediately apologize but how ironic - listening for long periods of time and we are not the ones yawning? I’ve cut a lot of ppl out of my life who are like this, but still deal with family members that do this. The yawning, I wonder, is an unconscious act to move the conversation back to them. Bcs if I see that, I would recognize, oh this person is tired, I won’t keep them… or I’ll say, oh are you tired? Rough night? Bringing the conversation back towards them. But if we were legit tired and say we yawn, they wouldn’t ask anything about It. They don’t pick up on those body queues. I guess that is the lack of emotional empathy.
I've been with my narcissistic husband for 10 years now. I'm so sorry you had to divorce. I'm going to have to do the same thing looks like. You hope they will do better but they don't think they need to! So they don't! Praying for you.
If you can go 10 years, you should be teaching the class. Really. That's an idea for something brilliant either way it goes with yall. Teach a class on how to stay married to a narc woman - expert speaking after 10 years. Encouragement and best wishes. I feel for you.
I've been accused of being one. By my brother. Only I'm an introvert. I don't have the need for applause on a daily basis. He does. I don't brag about knowing so and so. He does. I can't really tell my brother about things I've experienced. Because he retells other peoples' stories. Pretending they're his own. I suppose he's a narcissistic mythomaniac... 🙄
I know one, my ex. He never wanted to be around people he was able to control his image or he felt they were superior. He always hang out with the same people or his family who are worst than him. He could be all day scrolling or talking on the phone but didn't leave the house because everyone was stupid and underneath him.
I’m leaving this channel. When I was going through my discard and rumination phase, I found help on Prof. Sam Vaknin’s videos. He can’t lose his Chanel on TH-cam because of you. You are causing a great harm to people that need to understand about narcissistic abuse.
His envy of Sam has reached a boiling point. He is trying to erase him so he can present himself as the worlds leading expert. So please join the growing movement in exposing this "Man" as the fraud he is.
Oh my goodness, this explains my ex so well. He could talk about himself and his situations for ages with enthusiasm and gestures, however when I spoke, he glazed over, looked bored and crossed his arms. Got angry over literally nothing and picked fights, I was then left feeling like I had emotional whiplash. Wish I had seen your videos sooner!
This is really great! This is actually the way my mom was! I finally realized it was my early training and it was what caused me to believe that "walking on eggshells" was actually a part of true human relationships.... So much so, that I would be under the impression that if I wasn't "walking on eggshells", it must not actually be a truly emotional connection..... I'm very, very gladly realizing all of this! I really wish I would have known a lot more a lot sooner!
And use emotional manipulation tactics to control those around them. They may also gaslight or project their own flaws onto others. Despite appearing insecure, they have a strong sense of entitlement and can become resentful or angry when their needs are unmet.
You are right about everything you are saying, I have seen it all. LOL The covert narcissists I have known tend to cry when confronted about how they have acted. They cannot lash out overtly so they cry and play the victim instead. And, you are absolutely right, they don't listen or respond to us. As soon as the covert narcissist is not the center of attention anymore they change the subject as soon as possible. You are so right about the eye-rolling, which is a show of contempt. The covert narcissist only does good things for others if it will elevate the narcissist in some way. They have to have a good feeling, they are not the kind of people who will take care of a sick person as minimally as possible.
Yes, yes, yes! I know a particular covert narcissist who is terrible at listening and rudely interrupts to catch back up and then just shrugs her shoulders and goes back to not listening (I'm the one doing the listening and observing); who rolls her eyes as soon as someone else starts talking; jumps right into defense mode if questioned about anything; and has no friends. This list is spot on with what I've observed too.
I suffered at the hands of one of these for the last ten years and am now divorcing. You feel called to help "save them" from their sadness and sorrow, but then they suck you into their black hole and try to never let you go. Mine was also very possessive of me, controlling, and emotionally abusive once he had me living with him.
There are many different signs. These include spending time on phone that was not spent previously, withholding sex from you, withdrawing in communication with you, agitation or anger over Petty stuff or making up situations to get angry or agitated over, lying, being secretive in any way, randomly spending more time caring for and pampering oneself such as putting on makeup or wearing cologne or coloring hair etc. Any type of changed behavior that is not aimed at pleasing or benefiting your relationship. With all of that though, follow your gut. your gut is telling you that something isn't right and it's telling you that this could or is happening, therefore listen to it. Just Free yourself from all of it! Run and don't look back. Go 100% no contact. The mental and emotional abuse is not okay at all! Do not bring anything up to her. Don't try to rationalize or have a conversation about anything. Don't let her know that you know she's in narcissist. All of that can cause a narcissistic rage. If you have not yet witnessed one of those just trust me that you don't want to! A narcissistic rage is beyond any rage I have ever seen or witnessed in my entire life. I am an army combat veteran and served front lines for a year and afghanistan. I have abuse going back from as long as I can remember, the first time in my personal memory is 2 years old. With everything I have been involved in, and my rape, other sexual abuse, their physical abuse, etc in narcissistic rage is by far the worst! If you need to contact your local police department and start a new contact order. No one can protect you like you can! free yourself from it all and move forward in your life. The minute you run and go no contact is the minute your life begins again. If need be seek out professional help. Therapy is the best thing I did for myself. The best gift I gave to me! The abuse is so deep and overwhelming that having a professional guide you through the steps of the healing process is extremely beneficial! Just remember, there is great strength in asking for help. There is great lack and strength or no strength at all in putting on a mask and hiding behind the opinions of society and pretending that you are okay! As human beings we all witness A Time In our lives where we are not okay! Those that heal, move past, and move forward, and have a brighter future are those who ask for help and do the work that is needed through the help! I'm so sorry you are going through this and I wish you the very best! Good luck! Always remember that you are stronger than you believe you are, you are worthy and deserving of better and always, and you are enough just the way you are and who you are today! Take this time for you! Get yourself again. Fix that meal that you're all time favorite, rent that movie you've been wanting to see, have a guys night out with your best friends, remodel a room in your home, go purchase that item you've been wanting to for so long, just do for yourself! Self-acceptance, self-love, and being able to forgive yourself is far more important than what anyone else can give to you! Believe in who you are! You deserve nothing less than that! You're not alone! Feel free to tag me in any other questions that you have! I'll help if I can. Additionally you can hire a cyber expert to help you get remote access to their phone so you can track them and monitor all of their activities without them knowing. You may locate the top cyber specialists locally at Metaspyhub@gmail. com, where you can engage a well-trained professional to assist you..........
I so appreciate your humility in sharing how this relationship snuck in. The examples you gave were spot on what I have often observed myself and wondered about. I could listen to this content over and over and learn something new. Thank you so much for all you do to help us. Because, you have made such a difference in my journey to healing.
He's just been outed as a fraud. He is trying to sabotage the worlds leading expert Sam Vaknin. He is attempting to steal his work and present it as his own work. FRAUD ALERT
I met someone who has precisely all these characteristics and one more: addiction to cigarettes and substances. He was the rudest person I’ve probably met but when he needed me (on a couple of occasions) he used that false image of kindness and generosity. I’m not afraid to say that when it comes to fiction films and novels, they are perfectly pictured as the vampire, the monster, the serial killer, the demon, you name it. They are toxic people who have this type of docile and friendly nature but in reality, they are horrible individuals.
ditto. I've literally been bombarded with messages and emails by said family member this morning and yesterday, and then this video came up on my feed.
He's just been outed as a fraud. He is trying to sabotage the worlds leading expert Sam Vaknin. He is attempting to steal his work and present it as his own work. FRAUD ALERT
Thx Richie. In my experience dealing with both covert & over narcs, I’ve found covert to be far more pernicious. Overt narcs can be spotted more easily; whereas a covert who has an extroverted personality won’t withdraw from the external world, despite the external cognitive dissonance. The ending of the relationship you mentioned was bound to happen, especially since you’ve properly reboundaried (prob not an actual word :-) yourself. I enjoyed the collaborations you 2 did, but the simple fact is that a leopard can’t change his spots.
@@RICHARDGRANNONas always Richard. I am reeeaally learning a lot. I’ve just about fully learned grandiose from you and others. However, I am just now beginning to realize that my ex wife was a covert and I’m really blown away. They are so much harder to see than the grandiose. You’re awesome man. If I met you I’d definitely buy you a pint brother 🍺 cheers from the US
If you are a true therapist, you’ll let Sam Vaknin work on yt. You could only dream to be as insightful and gifted as he is. His videos save lives and you are aware of it. Let go of the vendetta, start caring.
His envy of Sam has reached a boiling point. He is trying to erase him so he can present himself as the worlds leading expert. So please join the growing movement in exposing this "Man" as the fraud he is.
@@malgorzatawojtys9846 This POS fraud Sam Vaknin wannabe Richard Grannon has been putting strikes on Sam's video's and he cannot upload anymore content. Grannon is trying to eliminate Sam so he can pass himself off as the worlds leading expert. It appears that his envy and jealousy of Sam has hit a boiling point and now he is trying to sabotage Sam Vaknin. Please do not have anything to do with Richard Grannon, he is a fraud. Warn all of your friends. I
It seems like there is a ‘narcissistic pandemic’ and I’ve withdrawn from society bcs I’m seeing this everywhere. I did date someone like this, very passive aggressive, very self centered, very self withdrawn. Very victim mentality. And I have to check my own behavior. I attempt to be kind and compassionate and it absolutely hurts my heart when I see these signs. I’ll be listening and supporting their conversation and as soon as I start talking about my life, they start to look away, the eyes glaze over…. But once I start talking about them again and their life, they become engaged again. It’s so odd and disheartening to me. So many members of my family and in the community are like this. It’s caused me to limit my engagement with anyone who does this and It’s sad, bcs even when we try to be emotionally responsible and explain what this behavior makes us feel, they are passive aggressive with their gas lighting. Thank you, Richard! You’ve really helped me understand what is transpiring in todays society as Narcissistic behaviors to look out for and either go no contact or limit interactions with.
Yes, it is a pandemic, most people are like this, it is very disheartening. But then there are channels like this one, and it is soothing to the soul. Thanks for your comment!
I came here to validate my feelings of resentment towards certain people around me. But I found myself identifying with the behavioral patterns instead. I got some serious reflecting to do. Thank you for sharing.
A shame you and Sam are at odds and now the man who taught me more about narcissism than anyone on YT including yours has been forbidden to post new material thanks your strikes against his channel. Thanks a lot. Two people who claim to know how to combat narcs combat each other . Nice. Very mature and instills hope for us all
Thank you Richard. I live with covert narcissist and you nailed the signs of this exhausting to the point of slowly killing intimate partner, disorder. Far more dangerous than overt narcissist. ❤
He's just been outed as a fraud. He is trying to sabotage the worlds leading expert Sam Vaknin. He is attempting to steal his work and present it as his own work. FRAUD ALERT
Yep.. This is no run of the mill narcissist these men are blatantly heartless and out to destroy in a very psychological way. The laws are catching up.
This has to be my FAVORITE review of the covert narcissist. I must be at a really healing point in my experience (I'm leaving them finally) but Richard kept making me laugh! "They are TERRIBLE listeners! " 😂
Please note that those with ADHD can also display some of these traits so these are not exclusive to covert narc and do not mean someone is a CN. For example being quick to frustration when they zone out during a conversation - some people who feel shame about their neurodiversity makes them get annoyed with themselves due to the shame which may, if they are not self aware or a little less experienced/mature, be expressed in a way that makes the other person presume that it is about them/their story etc. So before jumping to conclusions that someone 'must be' a narcissist being a safe person yourself and having conversations around neurodiversity and exploring this topic together may help the other person to realise that actually they have ADHD (which is linked to childhood trauma - specifically separation anxiety by the looks of it). You being another person who has listened to unbalanced social media posts about people being 'toxic' so you should 'cut them out' is creating a lose/lose situation and is deeply traumatising for both parties regardless of this being the latest trend to do and the drop of a hat for some sadly. Relationship management skills, trauma awareness, diversity of needs and neuro-makeup and empathy should really be focused on.
Thank you Richard, for helping me conceptualize the narcissist not as a monster, but as an injured child doing what needs to be done to survive. That mindset being necessary to get past the victim mindset. Watching you feed Sams ego was hard to watch, even if the banter was enjoyable.
You described the first man I married. He chose to never consummate the marriage. Also put me down every single day, He claimed I was fat-I was 5’8” and weighed 123. Miss America that year was5’8” and weighed 126. I could never please him-even though I waited on him. He never allowed me to use a vehicle to buy groceries. I worked teaching at a college and tried very hard. He had no friends and gave no presents.
WTF! Why marry if you're not gonna do the nightly? and everything else you mentioned. i sometimes wonder if im narcissistic but id rather hug my lady to sleep than never even touch her, i want kids dammit! why "commit" to not commit!
A lot of your fans would appreciate a response on the copyright strikes against Dr. Sam Vadkin. It's really painting you in a terrible way and if it's true, you are destroying the TH-cam community. Sam's material is of the utmost importance and relevance. You don't need to punish a vulnerable community.
The truth about the 5 things you bring to a friendship that are not in your friends is absolutely brilliant. It describes so many of the crappy people I used to call friends. They just gave nothing and talked about themselves and never listened to me. I only had a monologue from them. They always within seconds turned the attention back to themselves and what they had to say. And I got very tired of it. I don't tolerate it anymore. No company is better than bad company
Sam says boys are girls and only different because of their conditioning. Don't agree at all. I see girls and boys and they are naturally born different it's in their genes. So I don't hang on his teachings anymore
I finally am making a hard decision to cut out a ‘friend’ that I later realised was high on the covert narcissism scale. You’re absolutely right that these people cannot do adult horizontal mature relationships, you cannot even have mature discussions with them about relational issues…They can’t do it or maybe they just don’t want to do it, probably both. I’m on the final stage of cutting them off, and this week I’m letting go of them for good… I thought he could change with time but I was wrong, the passive aggression has always been there and tbh I put up with it for a while because it wasn’t always directly aimed at me (and I thought he was a fundamentally good person but had a bit of a arsy side) and the guy is pretty funny however sadly now I no longer am willing to tolerate his infantilism and want him out of my life. These people are very vindictive and spiteful people, they pose as your friend, use you for what they need/want and are extremely petty and venomous people. He would always talk in doublespeak whereby nearly every ‘meaningful’ sentence had a alternative meaning that was discreetly concealed and packaged to be elusive enough for him to disregard responsibility if held to account and obscure enough that he could discount your claim upon opening the packaged message (which he wanted me to get btw or fly under the radar whereby he’s insulting me whilst being amicable) and invert it so as to make out you’re the ‘bad’ friend etc (I’m sure you all know the script…). I’m sure there will be smear campaigns and he will tell everyone sensitive information I confided in him when I trusted him but I’m more than willing to go through all that to get such a corrosive person out of my life for good. Amen!
Owen you comment was very well written 👏🏻 I can empathise, right now I’m enduring the phase where my confidences to the narc are now being exposed and it’s not good, however, im only seeing positives as once the drama is over there are no more holds or living in fear of this exact thing being exposed over me and I’m free to move onwards with my life sans them. Obviously with a lot of lessons learnt along the way. All the best with your endeavours x
@@theoriginal7727 Thank you for your comment validating my experience with the covert narcissist husband. The only acceptable topic for conversation are: politics, sports and his dissatisfaction with life. If I make attempt to set the boundaries or God forbid, I have a request, he gets angry and passive aggressive.
@@BlowinFree Thank you, it took me a long time to put the patterns together and consider that maybe this person wasn’t the person I kept telling myself they were (who I wanted to believe they were) and then gradually things have become more apparent and clear. Best of wishes to you and keep strong!
Richard, could you please stop your bogus strikings of Vaknin’s videos? He helped me deal with my psychopathic narcissistic father’s gaslighting when I started remembering being raped at age 6 by my borderline mother’s lover with her active complicity. Preventing people who need it from getting useful content is absolutely not healthy boundaries. Thank you.
@@clararob9869 How the hell could someone know that someone they have never met is a narcissist? Do you have a secret technique no psychologist on Earth knows about?
Thank you so much. Once I pointed out I was the one over five years of driving in wind, rain and snow to go visit him and his answer was well. You only came when you wanted to, and it was always to rescue him from some pain or sickness or need, but it still wasn’t enough as everything else. Thank you so so much.
Can you please do a video about how withdrawing & isolating is a result of narcissistic abuse? A lot of what is mentioned at the beginning of this video overlaps with what empaths experience after years of dismissal, invalidation & being silenced.
Ok Richard, we all got the point! It does not make you look like the smarter one to keep bashing you know who. We all know who he is and for a long time now - we'll choose to either listen to him or not. Thanks for the additional signs of Covert Narcissism, that helped. Now it's time to put it to rest. Hurtful, Painful, I agree. As you say MOVE ON!
#3 & #4 occurred frequently, for decades, literally, in my 36 year marriage. I would be talking with or to my ex, but he was usually absorbed in his phone screen. Sometimes the tv, but more often his phone. He wouldn't even look at me while I spoke. Sometimes he's yawn. But at some point, he'd pull that bit-- "What was that? What were you saying?" and I'd either have to repeat myself, or just say "Never mind, you weren't listening anyhow." His reply to that? "But you're always talking!" As the years rolled on, I would stop and say, "You haven't heard a word I just said, have you?" (This often occurred also later on if I would remind him that, yes, I absolutely DID tell you that this morning/yesterday/ an hour ago.) His response? "But you say so much!" In the last year we were together, as I was deciding how to end the marriage and file for divorce (more going on here than just ignoring me, we had a 36 year history of his behavior and abuse), I would be sitting in the same room with him, speaking to him, noticing that I might as well be a part of the furniture, because he wasn't looking at me or even paying attention. I started doing this thing where I would stop mid-sentence, and not say another word. Just stop even trying to communicate. His response? He'd either look at me MINUTES after I'd stopped, and say, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear you", (were in the same damn room 5 feet apart!) Or, he'd finally look up from his phone and look at me and I would say "Oh never mind. You don't care anyway." Or, he would just go on scrolling through his phone as if he were the only one in the room, at which point, I would get up and leave the room, without another word. That made me cry a few times, silently, away from him, somewhere else. But soon after that I stopped feeling hurt about it and realized, that was my answer. This is how much I matter to him. Of course, I recognize how much I'd mattered to him 20 years prior when he was cheating on me for nearly a year while I was home taking care of our young kids and basically treating him like a king when he was home. But back then I was going and dumb and afraid to leave him-- because he wouldn't leave and threatened to take the kids away from me if I did. So I stayed. I'm free now, and healing and a whole lot happier.
The first two items on Richard’s list are actually HEALTHY survival techniques for this lady, post narcissistic abuse. After my every move being criticized and questioned, after every fabric of my being was criticized, I am quite happy self-centered and free of unnecessary, unsolicited, criticism. Yes. I will not tolerate criticism at all. ) On my channel trolls are removed without notice.) Soooo if you are a man dating a woman who has the FIRST TWO items going on, dig deeper. She may be pure gold.
Richard - I watched one of your videos last night and it was very very eye opening, thank you for the content. I also watched a Sam Vaknin video on the same subject and it was also life changing information. I don’t understand the feud between you two but please don’t force Sam to remove videos from his page that are helping lots of people. I would like to watch you both.
Richard Grannon please stop fighting Prof. Sam Vaknin . I have been listening both of you for years to understand toxic behaviours and could see that you where at many parts learning from him. His content is desparately needed .
Thank you for clearly explaining traits of a covert narcissist and for your honesty.......my mum is a covert narcissist and even though I have done lots of therapy (I do not have her in my life anymore) and am continuing to work on myself, I still occasionally have narcissists/abusive people slip under my radar and into my life. I can recognise it and let go of them but sometimes I'm like......really? Have I just let one in again??
He's just been outed as a fraud. He is trying to sabotage the worlds leading expert Sam Vaknin. He is attempting to steal his work and present it as his own work. FRAUD ALERT
Hey Richard - no need to be embarrassed - you are in the trenches with the rest of us! I am glad you recognized what was happening! I think your experience is valuable - I hope it helps you as well as others the next time you run into someone who doesn’t know how to relate in a healthy way.
They will also do ANYTHING to steal attention or divert attention to them INCLUDING chatting to the person you told them you're interested in, telling total strangers about past personal dramas / or traumas, talking louder over you so only they are heard... randomly dancing in the middle of a restaurant (yes I've witnessed these things!) They don't care who they embarrass, they have zero sympathy, attention span, or consideration to give unless they will gain from it. They don't think twice about ruining relationships between others for their own gain / control! Run from these people!!!
Mine do not eye roll. He actually smiles and has that smirk on his face. I have come to the conclusion that there is no use, at all, to talk these people on emotional level. What is very useful is to be aware about who these people are, what is their mindset. It is absolutely exhausting and will drive someone crazy to try to understand them or even try to level with them to communicate. Save yourself, save your effort. You cannot understand what is not understandable. These are very broken people who coerce others to go down with them to “their other worldly reality”. Their mindset is ME, MY WORLD, MYSELF. This is deeply ingrained in them. If you know this clearly, You do not exist!!! Thanks to this channel and Vaknin’s!❤
Dear God... 35 year old male here, this is so on point I wanna cry... I am in complete denial still because I dont want to believe good chunk of my life has been a lie(relationships with them) but last year of my life has been so eye opening I cant deny the facts. And without the internet I dont think I would have realized what kind of people I have been surruounded with, from immediate family to coworkers... Its like am a magnet for them and reading about this for months and reflecting on myself and my life of course I am magnet for them, I have been raised by them to support them and their egos.
Hey, no shame!! I was also 35 when I finally found an excellent therapist, critically examined all my relationships, and cut contact with all the toxic people I’d accumulated - it was like plucking off ticks after a really challenging hike. And I’ll tell you, there weren’t many people left! I am proud of you for your courage and emotional maturity in facing this and dealing with it. The rest of your life is going to be so much better. I mean, you could have done this at 65, right?! 😎
I feel the same ..im ashamed of how I've supported people's ego's who actually didn't care about me at all and diminished myself , to get validation and attention and connection . You're not alone .I now stop trying to get connection from the wrong people .
Lol on the listening thing, my mom is the narc and you couldn't pay her to pretend to care while you're talking. My siblings won't believe me that our mom is a narc, to them she's just an introvert, selfish, weird (maybe autistic), socially awkward, traumatized from her childhood and always down on her luck. But they believe she's a good person, innocent, a victim, or even oblivious and when she rages it's bc she's insecure, or crazy. But they don't believe she's ever malicious or knows she's hurtful. I no longer believe that bc I have tried with her for years. If a good person does something that causes harm and is made aware of it, they will want to change! Not her, not ever.
after being in a relationship with one of these people, they are just, SO CONFUSING to deal with, they give you silent treatment and leave you confused, their level of passion aggressiveness is on a whole other level.
If you don’t stop trying to get Vaknin’s channel deleted for the copyright claims, we will have TH-cam audit each and every one of your videos for the very same and more. We’ve already reached out to TH-cam and they know what you’re up to. Don’t risk your channel over this. Keep making your money on here and move on.
I've suspected for a long time that my soon-to-be ex-wife might be a narcissist. This video helps clarify things because she checks a few things off this list and other points mentioned by commenters here : 1. Hyper-sensibility to criticism/no self-criticism or self-awareness 2. Quick to exasperation for little things 3. Victim mentality 4. Passive aggression 5. Constantly trying to seek validation/to be the center of attention 6. Putting me down in public That's a bitter pill to swallow.
I hope you and Sam Vaknin patch things up. These volleys are interesting and somewhat entertaining, but your collaborations are truly excellent, and I hope will happen again.
His envy of Sam has reached a boiling point. He is trying to erase him so he can present himself as the worlds leading expert. So please join the growing movement in exposing this "Man" as the fraud he is.
“Not listening” with a caveat. They can listen when they want to. When they don’t want to, they employ verbal abuse tactics. Verbal abuse is any action or words meant to cut off communication. An action would be “not listening” , yawning, walking away. Words include “You’re just trying to start a fight” when I brought up something needing resolved (in a respectful way and tone). Was married 30 yrs to covert narc so I’m an Expert. Thanks, Richard!
To hear that even those who's WORKING with this admits that they gets "fooled" is actually nice to hear :-) Gives atleast me room to just pat myself on the shoulder and not be to hard on myself if I end up with more Narcissisic "friends" again^^
They target compassionate sensitive enpaths which I won't change but certainly have a stronger narc radar now and have no qualms abouts cutting them off!
Passive aggressiveness is the main reason I started looking at your channel. Ignoring me because I did who knows what! Yawning when I’m talking or just talking over me!
Great content as usual. Having been around people with strong narcissistic traits my entire life I could tell how manipulative and passive aggressive Sam is even only through the short interactions he has had with you and others on youtube.
I’m wondering if Richard is actually referring to another notable friend he recently parted ways with. SV makes no attempts to hide his narcissism, in fact he’s built his entire brand around it. The other friend, although it pains me to say it as I enjoy his content, may actually be the one who slipped past Richard’s narc radar. 😕
I'm not including any names bc why feed the beast. But... 💯. Easy to see that building in videos. I've been waiting for the bubble to burst. Makes a great teaching tool via example in real time. Sorry Richard had to be the sacrificial lamb on that lesson though 🤣
@@angelam81 absolutely a great teaching tool, almost right out of a textbook. What astounds me, though, is how the majority of the followers of the unnamed person refuse to recognize what is happening before their very eyes, even after watching the guy for years and presumably learning a ton about narcissism. Many of them are now actively participating in the smear campaign. Sad all around.
You've been such a help to me in the past recovering - self-awareness, boundaries to list a few. I guess the reminder lesson here is, "When you play with matches, you get burned." Best to you and this small hiccup in your friendship life. 💛
I tend to withdraw alot from people and the world but thats normally to have time for myself to recover and replenish my energies. Especially if been around alot of demands plus i suffer from depression. I tend not to dump on other's and sort it through myself. We all need that healthy withdrawal though 💚
Very interesting. Mum is a Covert, a sibling is overt, they live together now & covert is queen bee. She / Covert parent, owns the house & is fully retired. E.g. retired from cooking, from grocery shopping, from driving , from mowing the lawn etc. The over daughter does everything now & is essentially the slave. Oh & the scapegoat ( I left the dysfunctional family unit many years ago which caused an implosion of the remaining members of the dysfunctional family, while Having been completely ignorant of Narcissism, at the time of, " What is wrong with these people " lol ). So I completely agree with this as I've seen it over & over again. Throughout the earlier years. Thankyou Richard. Another great video.
Hey Richard I'm disappointed to see you are trying to take down Sam. I like you both and you both contribute good things. But please don't try to erase him. No one cares about petty personal spats. We care about intellectual content and help. Please put it aside. You both have alot of fans and there's no need for ego wars.
I would rather listen to Richard any day than the other you refer to who's made a whole brand out of being an overt Narcissist and regarding everyone beneath them.
His envy of Sam has reached a boiling point. He is trying to erase him so he can present himself as the worlds leading expert. So please join the growing movement in exposing this "Man" as the fraud he is.
@@DaleJay667 EXACTLY thank you! People can "like" (or not) whoever they want. It doesn't disqualify opposing viewpoints nor justify censorship. In this case what's far worse and frankly concerning to me is that so many people would rather stand behind a celebrity rather than seek insight (however disagreeable) from a true master in the field. It also is disturbing to me the level of dishonesty people are privy to instead of the opposite. Though, sadly, it's not surprising.
I like them both... nobody is perfect and what is special about these guys is they have overcome what seems an impossibility and are able to enlighten those of us involved in the fascinating world of mental illness... from experience !!
Richard. Thank you for explaining these pointers. Experience shared is experience gained. I notice Covert Narcissism runs parallel to the symptoms of C-PTSD. It would be interesting to make a video on how to separate and differentiate between the two. Thanks' for all your informative work. 🙂
Hi Richard, I've watched all the other channels on Covert/Vulnerable Narcissism and your description is by far the best, spot on and summed it up in less than 10 minutes. My mother was a vulnerable narcissist and all that you've just described was her. Except she wouldn't yawn when listening to you, she would nod and smile, but you could see like a shutter close down behind her eyes. When you asked her 'Well what did I just say'? She couldn't confirm and get frustrated and turn round and blame me! Also, vulnerable narcissists are easily impressed by grandiose/malignant narcissists or anyone who's very overpowering. My diagnosis is Covert Narcissists would like to be like that but they just know they haven't got in them? Anyway I've duly subscribed. 👍🏻🤗
@@RICHARDGRANNON geez 🙄 where did all these trolls come from?! Oh who cares. I say…let ‘em come! Really it bumps you in the algorithm & you reach more people who need to see these videos 😆
I think he does. He has even created courses based on it, which he is selling to victims of narcissistic abuse. I can understand him being unhappy about some of the things Sam has been saying about him in recent videos, but it is that which they need to address. Trying to get Sam's channel closed down is not a proportioate response, and adversely affects all the people who would benefit from the educational content on Sam's channel.
@@heatherlloyd8207 Where are these videos of Sam saying anything about Gammon? I'm subscribed & follow Sam on other platforms, I never saw anything? Other than his posts showing his channel/work is under attack & some correspondence with a non replying Gammon I've not seen anything else?
@Dale Jay I'll try once more with just a couple of examples. In the first few minutes of the last published video, "Narcissist Pays Heavy Price ... " he refers to his "former fake friend" with his "rather limited intelligence." Although he doesn't name him, he has identified his "fake friend" as G, 43 minutes into an earlier video "Narcissist's Betrayal Fantasy: Painful Mommy Separation." Also watch "How to Resolve (T)horny Issues" from about 1 min 30. What he suggests at 2 min 25, was subsequently set up, link under 'Community' heading on Vaknin's channel 3 weeks ago.
The points listed in this video are by far the most accurate description of covert narcissim in my own personal experience with one. Particularly the withdrawal and them being a terrible friend!
Thank you for your immensely helpful and inspiring videos . Top man 👏. In my three significant experiences with coverts they all presented as victims of abuse eg Exes, parents etc telling me pity ploy tales from the very beginning, testing my sympathy / empathy. A red flag 🚩
He's just been outed as a fraud. He is trying to sabotage the worlds leading expert Sam Vaknin. He is attempting to steal his work and present it as his own work. FRAUD ALERT
Thank you so much for this! I am dealing with someone at work, and the conversation you described at about the eight minute mark is exactly how conversations have gone with him for the past 10 years and they have driven me insane
Please don't damage the TH-cam channel of Sam Vaknin, because we need that videos. i don't know what happened between you 2, and honestly i don't care and is not my problem either, but nobody else must pay for the issue that occurs, the channel is very very very important for the audience, think about this carefully, thank you.
The not listening thing is bang on. Couldn’t put my finger on it! I’d have to listen to the most boring retelling of their daily routine/ailments. As soon as I would mention my day the reply would be “oh” IF they didn’t cut me off first with something unrelated. What does OH mean?!?!? I couldn’t understand why I was slowly losing my mind.
Richard please do more videos on convert narcissists. I think there are just as many coverts out there as there are overts. They are just as dangerous cause they sneak under the radar and as you say, are hard to detect until you work the code out. My mother is a covert and my lord, it has changed my world working that out. It’s not me, it’s her!!!!!!
Thank you so much for saying that even you were fooled by a covert narcissist. I am a therapist myself and I was pulled in for 17 years by a covert narcissist. Your videos have been IMMENSELY helpful to me!
This is the best explanation I've heard describing covert narrcisim and that's my ex, bang on! It's subtle and it's a head fuck. I take responsibility for my part, I'm a co dependant so of course I saw the wounded little lad in him and i wanted to give him all the love he never had! What a fool I was. But it's a year on, not always no contact but more or less and the more work I do on my self the less inclined I am to reach out to negative people and I just keep reminding myself that I never felt loved by him. I went back into a 12 step programme and read everything I could about co dependancy and now I'm really understanding bounderies but I'm still vulnerable at times, its hard wired but I know it can be unwired. My shamanic practice helps as does seeing a homeopathic practitioner. Bottom line guys and gals, it's all about self love and stacks of it. From a song by Francis Dunnery..... 'Follow the grief trail home' Thanks Richard.
A big tell for covert narc is if they quickly close " space" between you and try to manufacture a " bond" that seems unnaturally fast [ once you see how immoral and pathetic they are they lose advantage] . Speed is the cloak they wear . As far as Sam goes, I don't know how you put up with him for so long, always felt a wierd Jealousy/dominate undercurrent from him towards you while you seemed genuinely kind and deferential.
Withdrawal can be caused by depression alone. It can be a symptom of so many things. Even good people can withdraw from time to time depending on their state of mind and what they're going through.
Well! That's a way of addressing it! And it absolutely coincides with a personal experience happening just now. I guess the "eye rolling" was the keyword for me.
After this video, i had a feeling my pal was not listening properly, just waiting for me to finish what I was saying so she could turn it back on her subject. I find it really rude and it is happening more often. We have just had a falling out because she wanted me to lend her money for a afternoon out we were supposed to have. I don't borrow or lend money and felt quite let down as I wanted to go out, in the end I said I would have to cancel. I was then subjected to the silent treatment, I am glad that I no longer have contact with her.
For years I wondered why I am the one who takes the initiative to pick up the phone to call freinds and then have to listen to them ramble for an hour ,not let me speak, and dare I jump in for 30 seconds to share then it's back to them. I almost exclusively pick these for freinds, but no more. I am woke. I see what I never saw before. Now I will search for "normal" freinds.
From having a covert best friend I found her top 5 signs were
1. Victim mentality
2. Constantly put others down
3. Always tried to dominate others to feel secure
4. Moody 99% of the time
5. Didn’t seem to have an adult understanding of empathy, love, morals
I’ll give you another 5 for free
6. Was very paranoid would ask questions in multiple ways to see if you gave same answer
7 jealous of other friendships
8. Materialistic
9. Poor relationship with family
10. She would twist my words and try to convince me the false reality was real
11. Constant need for validation
Well done… very good list… missing 12. sense of entitlement 👌
I would disagree with few you listed, 6. asking questions in different ways to see if you get the same answer is actually a technique used for interrogations (police, military etc)
8. Not necessarily, some can be surface level, unless you mean it´s the only thing they seek.
9. The family could be toxic and you made the decision to remove yourself from a toxic space.
10. Ahh well maybe, I´ve dealt with this one, and what I´ve done was call her out on it, bring up a past memory where both know you were right about and then make it clear that your memory is just fine, watch how fast she´ll shut up or she´ll bring up another topic, if she does she knows she´s wrong about it and her little game won´t work with you. Then ask her about the new topic and don´t dwell on your W...
11. Taking advantage of others for personal gain.
12. Resistance to change. Unable to self reflect/improve (because they see nothing wrong with themselves)
13. Sensitive to critique
14. Never/always (Extreme words like “Always” and “Never” can also hurt others. When talking to relationship partners, for example, using these extreme terms to prove your point immediately puts someone else on the defensive, and downplays or ignores the work that they did (or did not) do.)
15. Seeing things black/white
16. A tendency to put themselves down ( so you can lift them up)
.......
@@Proposal12 well you can disagree with whatever you like that’s your personal experience and as she is NOT the police it is not normal behaviour to interrogate people like she is the police and that they owe her explanations to their personal lives.
@@Proposal12 she does only seek material things everything comes back to how much more she has than others treating people as objects based on social status, looking down on others because of wealth
For me, the covert narcissist comes across as a people pleaser. They like to be in the spotlight to get the validation that they crave for, as other narcissists but at the same time, they pretend to be humble, simple, generous, over giving. The covert narcissist will take time to build a relationship/friendship with you. During this period, they will show their admiration and their devotion by helping you with everything that is you need. They will try to convince you that you are soulmates and that they understand you deeply. At the same time, you will see them being overly altruistic, maybe helping society by engaging in charities, activism. They feed the poor, take care of the homeless. All this makes you think how lucky you are for having met such a beautiful soul. You want to be by their side for ever. However, soon you notice how much they enjoy being invited in galas to talk about their achievements. But they don’t admit that. They still play the humble guy who doesn’t want all this. Who is beyond money, beyond fame and recognition, who wants to share the floor with other people. But their acts don’t match their words. You come to realise that this selfless soul is actually doing whatever it takes to be in the centre of attention. When you do something together be it at work or at home, they want to control everything about it. They just exerce their control in a more polite and implicit way, making you believe that your voice was heard whereas in reality you did what they wanted you to do. Covert narcissists have a smooth way of leading you on. They don’t shout, they don’t give orders. They are master actors. They convince you that you are together in this. What makes them a narcissist is that when the time comes for them to use you in order to draw certain benefits, they will do it without a second thought and you are not going to believe in your eyes. And when you stand up for yourself and raise your voice against them calling them for their phony identity, then you will see their rage for the first time and the mask will fall. Covert narcissists manipulate less with rage/exhibiting superiority and more with people pleasing behaviour/playing the eternal victim. They are not aggressive as overt narcissists. They are more cunning. What they both have in common is self-centered ness and lack of empathy. In the case of coverts, it will take you longer to find out.They knew what they wanted to get out of you from the beginning. They created a whole theatre play to fool you about who they are and their true motives. You will trust them with all your heart but when the time comes for them to prove their loyalty by choosing your bond over their personal gain, they will choose the latter with no remorse, without even taking any responsibility. Unlike the overt narcissist, they will have an eloquent excuse for doing so, rationalizing why they had to f@ck you over. They will pretend to be sorry about it because this is something that matches the image of modesty that they want to project but in reality they are not sorry at all. You will see them partying with your own money when they said they didn’t have enough to pay you back. You will see them being unfair and untrustworthy to other people as well. When the mask of the victim will fall, you will see the cruel smile of a perpetrator who managed to get what they want without deserving it. If you decide to unmask them run for your life. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done Metaspyhub@gmail. com,,
To add to this video and your comment, they're very needy and obsessive from the beginning (example: wants to follow you everywhere, calling you all day, praises you a little too much, telling you that they look up to you without truly knowing who you are), childish/irresponsible (which explains why they're constantly complaining because even the simplest things don't come easy to them). You'll repeat yourself a lot when talking to them (as if you're talking to a toddler by walking them through the conversation, because they're lacking comprehension skills), nothing seems to be going right for them in their lives (literally).
They don't know how to laugh at themselves and take life too seriously, thinks everyone's jealous of them but it's the opposite. "Everyone" either loves them or can't stand them. They jump into things without thinking them through but would pass it off as they were just trying to "help" someone.
The are nice to you when other people are around or when you go on double dates.. if you are alone with them it’s questioning that has a paranoid critical view but called “communication,” it’s back handed compliments, its Helpful criticism and if you get even annoyed by their behavior watch out! They will blow up all over you.
Wow , I just got out of what I believe was a convert narcissistic relationship, what you wrote is EXACTLY what he was - to the t!!!! I appreciate this so much, still feel like my compass is off, and I am trying to get my life back in order. Thank you !!!
Thank you. This text is very useful.
Withdrawal from the world doesn't necessarily mean it's due to narcissism...
Narcissistic abuse for EVER and A DAY can cause the same. The world is dangerous when you realize you don't have boundaries to keep yourself safe.
Exactly
There's an audiobook, Complex PTSD, on TH-cam which talks about one type of person who've had a crappy childhood who isolate as a result: they are people who believe others are dangerous ... and can find great solace in being alone ... but at same time are hiding & concealing their wounds from themselves. He says it can be difficult for them to go to therapy, or decelop a healing intimacy, but he mentions a few other healing modalities ....
My thoughts too. Withdrawal does not equal narcissism necessarily. It can also be about withdrawing from volunteering for narcissistic abuse, and developing better boundaries for functioning in a world full of narcissists!
Absolutely agree. When you’ve experienced narc or toxic people most of your life and then the lightbulb goes off, of course you now will develop a need to shut off the world. At least for awhile while your healing.
Agreed
I would say the first sign will come from your own gut feeling which will send signal to your body telling you that this person doesn't make you feel comfortable being around him/her. The fact that you are already asking this question should alert you to be careful. Something will feel off and you won't know what it is exactly. Covert narcissists can act very charming in the beginning but there will be often also present underlying sense of superiority about them.
That sense is actually deriving from them feeling insecure about themselves, so they tend to quietly degrade others in order to feel better about themselves. On the other hand if covert narcissist feels that you are above his league, he will act like your servant, trying to please you - almost annoying in a way. But make no mistake. If you decide to stay in a relationship with him, he will downgrade you and abuse you like all the others. Because in his mind, if you love him, he thinks you are unworthy of him.
Covert narcissists hate themselves so if someone loves them, than they think this person is worth less than them and that they can do better. Other sign to look for is any kind of judgment towards others. If he criticises other frequently, he will more likely criticise you as well once he gets more comfortable around you. Pay attention to how he treats people that are dependent on him as well. Narcissists hate those especially if they can't get anything of of that for themselves.
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I would add a footnote to number three. In addition to the eye-rolling and cutting you off in conversation, if, perchance you were talking about something positive that happened to you, they will take a moment to pop your balloon, then, of course go back to hijacking the conversation.
Oh so true.
They will jump on any word you manage to mention, fully explaining their experience of that, then go off on a tangent. You are just providing fodder.
True! It never fails!
Had he actually listened to me and gotten to know me mine would have known that cutting me off, especially aggressively, shouting me down and talking over me are MAJOR triggers for me going back to early childhood. But doing these things made it so much easier to walk away. No contact. Last conversation after (deliberately) going quiet and agreeing w him to be able to extricate myself from this bile I hung up the phone and said out loud, "you just made that decision easy dude.". Not a word from me after that.
German men😂
Eye rolling, smirking, walking ahead of you, gaslighting,blame shifting, can’t listen. They are puddles, no depth It’s unbelievable
On point 5. There's another layer to that. Sometimes they're great at doing the things a friend would do. Sometimes even to a degree of overcompensation. The difference with them? They're keeping score. They remember each and every thing they did for you. Its all transactional.
So great about the yawning, Richard! I have never heard anyone mention it. I had a friend however (for decades, I hardly dare to admit it) who would call me and talk about herself, her life, the lives of her grown children, her plans to write a book, her connections, her opinions, non-stop, finally running out of steam and coming to the point of "And with you - everything o.k.?" I would feel provoked to jump out of my paralyzed state and tentativly start a sentence, maybe two...I could hear by her sudden silence that she had already checked out. And then she would YAWN, noisily, without shame, again and again. I would feel embarrassed for burdening her with my existence, and would keep everything very brief. Invariably she would cut things short anyway. She really had to go now, this call had gone on way too long, she had to get on with her important life - insinuating that the delay was all my fault. I always felt horrible afterwards, smacked, humiliated, used. There came a point where I called her on her bullshit, in regard to a particular issue. How did I dare to question her motives! I have never heard from her since. But yes, the YAWNING....so maddening.
Just give them a taste of their own medicine and test them and how they react. I had a similar experience, known him 30 yrs and yet always had the feeling he never really knew who I was what I did at work or my interests etc. strange
I had a friend exactly like this. I just stopped answering her calls. I felt completely drained after speaking to her. She’s totally unaware. The yawning pissed me off tho🙄
Yep , my ex did that , i knew why as i had done research , example , why does my husband do this etc ? I already knew , i just sussed it , but the answers already confirmed what i thought
I have faced the same devaluation by yawning multiple times .At first was very annoying but then l started to just ignore or tease them by saying something that could made them wonder if the comment was about them or not, or yawning too at them😁mouahahaha😁
@troll23 - man I really felt that. I’ve been there, feeling awful for being a burden with having talked a few sentences worth interjecting in a hour long conversation where someone was doing most of the talking… if I ever yawned, I would immediately apologize but how ironic - listening for long periods of time and we are not the ones yawning?
I’ve cut a lot of ppl out of my life who are like this, but still deal with family members that do this.
The yawning, I wonder, is an unconscious act to move the conversation back to them. Bcs if I see that, I would recognize, oh this person is tired, I won’t keep them… or I’ll say, oh are you tired? Rough night? Bringing the conversation back towards them. But if we were legit tired and say we yawn, they wouldn’t ask anything about It. They don’t pick up on those body queues. I guess that is the lack of emotional empathy.
You described pretty much my wife, lucky me, after 10 years I finally gave up all hope and decided I am going to divorce her.
You can be happy without someone like her to constantly drag you down. There's life beyond that dysfunctional relationship.
Same and same after 20 years
I've been with my narcissistic husband for 10 years now. I'm so sorry you had to divorce. I'm going to have to do the same thing looks like. You hope they will do better but they don't think they need to! So they don't! Praying for you.
If you can go 10 years, you should be teaching the class. Really. That's an idea for something brilliant either way it goes with yall. Teach a class on how to stay married to a narc woman - expert speaking after 10 years. Encouragement and best wishes. I feel for you.
Same. Except I'm going on 18 years and on top of it he's a drug addict and has now had an affair. I might as well join the circus.
I don't know any narcissists who are withdrawn --- they need people too much for their supply.
Exactly! Brilliant point! 👍👍👍
Cause they are covert.
They seem normal regular people from the outside.
I've been accused of being one.
By my brother.
Only I'm an introvert.
I don't have the need for applause on a daily basis.
He does.
I don't brag about knowing so and so.
He does.
I can't really tell my brother about things I've
experienced.
Because he retells other peoples' stories.
Pretending they're his own.
I suppose he's a narcissistic mythomaniac... 🙄
I know one, my ex. He never wanted to be around people he was able to control his image or he felt they were superior. He always hang out with the same people or his family who are worst than him. He could be all day scrolling or talking on the phone but didn't leave the house because everyone was stupid and underneath him.
I’m leaving this channel. When I was going through my discard and rumination phase, I found help on Prof. Sam Vaknin’s videos.
He can’t lose his Chanel on TH-cam because of you. You are causing a great harm to people that need to understand about narcissistic abuse.
His envy of Sam has reached a boiling point. He is trying to erase him so he can present himself as the worlds leading expert. So please join the growing movement in exposing this "Man" as the fraud he is.
100%
are you flying monkeys?
Oh my goodness, this explains my ex so well. He could talk about himself and his situations for ages with enthusiasm and gestures, however when I spoke, he glazed over, looked bored and crossed his arms. Got angry over literally nothing and picked fights, I was then left feeling like I had emotional whiplash.
Wish I had seen your videos sooner!
This is really great! This is actually the way my mom was! I finally realized it was my early training and it was what caused me to believe that "walking on eggshells" was actually a part of true human relationships.... So much so, that I would be under the impression that if I wasn't "walking on eggshells", it must not actually be a truly emotional connection..... I'm very, very gladly realizing all of this! I really wish I would have known a lot more a lot sooner!
And use emotional manipulation tactics to control those around them. They may also gaslight or project their own flaws onto others. Despite appearing insecure, they have a strong sense of entitlement and can become resentful or angry when their needs are unmet.
You are right about everything you are saying, I have seen it all. LOL The covert narcissists I have known tend to cry when confronted about how they have acted. They cannot lash out overtly so they cry and play the victim instead. And, you are absolutely right, they don't listen or respond to us. As soon as the covert narcissist is not the center of attention anymore they change the subject as soon as possible. You are so right about the eye-rolling, which is a show of contempt. The covert narcissist only does good things for others if it will elevate the narcissist in some way. They have to have a good feeling, they are not the kind of people who will take care of a sick person as minimally as possible.
Glad you found the content useful, Thanks for watching 😎
Yes, yes, yes! I know a particular covert narcissist who is terrible at listening and rudely interrupts to catch back up and then just shrugs her shoulders and goes back to not listening (I'm the one doing the listening and observing); who rolls her eyes as soon as someone else starts talking; jumps right into defense mode if questioned about anything; and has no friends. This list is spot on with what I've observed too.
I suffered at the hands of one of these for the last ten years and am now divorcing. You feel called to help "save them" from their sadness and sorrow, but then they suck you into their black hole and try to never let you go. Mine was also very possessive of me, controlling, and emotionally abusive once he had me living with him.
There are many different signs. These include spending time on phone that was not spent previously, withholding sex from you, withdrawing in communication with you, agitation or anger over Petty stuff or making up situations to get angry or agitated over, lying, being secretive in any way, randomly spending more time caring for and pampering oneself such as putting on makeup or wearing cologne or coloring hair etc. Any type of changed behavior that is not aimed at pleasing or benefiting your relationship. With all of that though, follow your gut. your gut is telling you that something isn't right and it's telling you that this could or is happening, therefore listen to it. Just Free yourself from all of it! Run and don't look back. Go 100% no contact. The mental and emotional abuse is not okay at all! Do not bring anything up to her. Don't try to rationalize or have a conversation about anything. Don't let her know that you know she's in narcissist. All of that can cause a narcissistic rage. If you have not yet witnessed one of those just trust me that you don't want to! A narcissistic rage is beyond any rage I have ever seen or witnessed in my entire life. I am an army combat veteran and served front lines for a year and afghanistan. I have abuse going back from as long as I can remember, the first time in my personal memory is 2 years old. With everything I have been involved in, and my rape, other sexual abuse, their physical abuse, etc in narcissistic rage is by far the worst! If you need to contact your local police department and start a new contact order. No one can protect you like you can! free yourself from it all and move forward in your life. The minute you run and go no contact is the minute your life begins again. If need be seek out professional help. Therapy is the best thing I did for myself. The best gift I gave to me! The abuse is so deep and overwhelming that having a professional guide you through the steps of the healing process is extremely beneficial! Just remember, there is great strength in asking for help. There is great lack and strength or no strength at all in putting on a mask and hiding behind the opinions of society and pretending that you are okay! As human beings we all witness A Time In our lives where we are not okay! Those that heal, move past, and move forward, and have a brighter future are those who ask for help and do the work that is needed through the help! I'm so sorry you are going through this and I wish you the very best! Good luck! Always remember that you are stronger than you believe you are, you are worthy and deserving of better and always, and you are enough just the way you are and who you are today! Take this time for you! Get yourself again. Fix that meal that you're all time favorite, rent that movie you've been wanting to see, have a guys night out with your best friends, remodel a room in your home, go purchase that item you've been wanting to for so long, just do for yourself! Self-acceptance, self-love, and being able to forgive yourself is far more important than what anyone else can give to you! Believe in who you are! You deserve nothing less than that! You're not alone! Feel free to tag me in any other questions that you have! I'll help if I can. Additionally you can hire a cyber expert to help you get remote access to their phone so you can track them and monitor all of their activities without them knowing. You may locate the top cyber specialists locally at Metaspyhub@gmail. com, where you can engage a well-trained professional to assist you..........
I so appreciate your humility in sharing how this relationship snuck in. The examples you gave were spot on what I have often observed myself and wondered about. I could listen to this content over and over and learn something new. Thank you so much for all you do to help us. Because, you have made such a difference in my journey to healing.
He's just been outed as a fraud. He is trying to sabotage the worlds leading expert Sam Vaknin. He is attempting to steal his work and present it as his own work. FRAUD ALERT
I met someone who has precisely all these characteristics and one more: addiction to cigarettes and substances.
He was the rudest person I’ve probably met but when he needed me (on a couple of occasions) he used that false image of kindness and generosity.
I’m not afraid to say that when it comes to fiction films and novels, they are perfectly pictured as the vampire, the monster, the serial killer, the demon, you name it. They are toxic people who have this type of docile and friendly nature but in reality, they are horrible individuals.
Thank you for so clearly describing the most difficult - - correction, the most impossible - - member of my family! This really helped.
Glad you found the content useful 😎
ditto. I've literally been bombarded with messages and emails by said family member this morning and yesterday, and then this video came up on my feed.
He's just been outed as a fraud. He is trying to sabotage the worlds leading expert Sam Vaknin. He is attempting to steal his work and present it as his own work. FRAUD ALERT
Thx Richie. In my experience dealing with both covert & over narcs, I’ve found covert to be far more pernicious. Overt narcs can be spotted more easily; whereas a covert who has an extroverted personality won’t withdraw from the external world, despite the external cognitive dissonance. The ending of the relationship you mentioned was bound to happen, especially since you’ve properly reboundaried (prob not an actual word :-) yourself. I enjoyed the collaborations you 2 did, but the simple fact is that a leopard can’t change his spots.
I had a covert narc gf always felt like I was the one doing wrong. Looking forward to this
Hope you gained value from the video 😎
@@RICHARDGRANNONas always Richard. I am reeeaally learning a lot. I’ve just about fully learned grandiose from you and others. However, I am just now beginning to realize that my ex wife was a covert and I’m really blown away. They are so much harder to see than the grandiose. You’re awesome man. If I met you I’d definitely buy you a pint brother 🍺 cheers from the US
If you are a true therapist, you’ll let Sam Vaknin work on yt. You could only dream to be as insightful and gifted as he is. His videos save lives and you are aware of it. Let go of the vendetta, start caring.
His envy of Sam has reached a boiling point. He is trying to erase him so he can present himself as the worlds leading expert. So please join the growing movement in exposing this "Man" as the fraud he is.
💯 💯
You are a flying monkey.
Leave his channel!! Grannon is a fraud. His envy and jealousy of Sam has hit a boiling point, and he can't take it anymore.
@@malgorzatawojtys9846 This POS fraud Sam Vaknin wannabe Richard Grannon has been putting strikes on Sam's video's and he cannot upload anymore content. Grannon is trying to eliminate Sam so he can pass himself off as the worlds leading expert. It appears that his envy and jealousy of Sam has hit a boiling point and now he is trying to sabotage Sam Vaknin. Please do not have anything to do with Richard Grannon, he is a fraud. Warn all of your friends. I
It seems like there is a ‘narcissistic pandemic’ and I’ve withdrawn from society bcs I’m seeing this everywhere. I did date someone like this, very passive aggressive, very self centered, very self withdrawn. Very victim mentality.
And I have to check my own behavior. I attempt to be kind and compassionate and it absolutely hurts my heart when I see these signs. I’ll be listening and supporting their conversation and as soon as I start talking about my life, they start to look away, the eyes glaze over…. But once I start talking about them again and their life, they become engaged again. It’s so odd and disheartening to me. So many members of my family and in the community are like this. It’s caused me to limit my engagement with anyone who does this and It’s sad, bcs even when we try to be emotionally responsible and explain what this behavior makes us feel, they are passive aggressive with their gas lighting.
Thank you, Richard! You’ve really helped me understand what is transpiring in todays society as Narcissistic behaviors to look out for and either go no contact or limit interactions with.
Glad you gained value from the video, Thanks for watching.
Yes, it is a pandemic, most people are like this, it is very disheartening. But then there are channels like this one, and it is soothing to the soul. Thanks for your comment!
Spot on. It’s an epidemic and the only way to cope is to isolate a lot.
@@Yayas_World29 same.
@@Yayas_World29 yep, and then you find yourself withdrawn and perhaps a little bit self-centred and then you think “oh, sh!te” 😊
I came here to validate my feelings of resentment towards certain people around me. But I found myself identifying with the behavioral patterns instead. I got some serious reflecting to do. Thank you for sharing.
A shame you and Sam are at odds and now the man who taught me more about narcissism than anyone on YT including yours has been forbidden to post new material thanks your strikes against his channel. Thanks a lot. Two people who claim to know how to combat narcs combat each other . Nice. Very mature and instills hope for us all
Okay shoshanim!
This is literally, by far, the best explanation I've ever heard in regards to covert narcissism...nailed it!! 🔨
Thank you Richard. I live with covert narcissist and you nailed the signs of this exhausting to the point of slowly killing intimate partner, disorder. Far more dangerous than overt narcissist. ❤
He's just been outed as a fraud. He is trying to sabotage the worlds leading expert Sam Vaknin. He is attempting to steal his work and present it as his own work. FRAUD ALERT
You are being slowly killed.
The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist-Debbie Mirza
Yep.. This is no run of the mill narcissist these men are blatantly heartless and out to destroy in a very psychological way. The laws are catching up.
This has to be my FAVORITE review of the covert narcissist. I must be at a really healing point in my experience (I'm leaving them finally) but Richard kept making me laugh! "They are TERRIBLE listeners! " 😂
Please note that those with ADHD can also display some of these traits so these are not exclusive to covert narc and do not mean someone is a CN. For example being quick to frustration when they zone out during a conversation - some people who feel shame about their neurodiversity makes them get annoyed with themselves due to the shame which may, if they are not self aware or a little less experienced/mature, be expressed in a way that makes the other person presume that it is about them/their story etc. So before jumping to conclusions that someone 'must be' a narcissist being a safe person yourself and having conversations around neurodiversity and exploring this topic together may help the other person to realise that actually they have ADHD (which is linked to childhood trauma - specifically separation anxiety by the looks of it). You being another person who has listened to unbalanced social media posts about people being 'toxic' so you should 'cut them out' is creating a lose/lose situation and is deeply traumatising for both parties regardless of this being the latest trend to do and the drop of a hat for some sadly. Relationship management skills, trauma awareness, diversity of needs and neuro-makeup and empathy should really be focused on.
Thank you Richard, for helping me conceptualize the narcissist not as a monster, but as an injured child doing what needs to be done to survive. That mindset being necessary to get past the victim mindset.
Watching you feed Sams ego was hard to watch, even if the banter was enjoyable.
You described the first man I married. He chose to never consummate the marriage. Also put me down every single day, He claimed I was fat-I was 5’8” and weighed 123. Miss America that year was5’8” and weighed 126. I could never please him-even though I waited on him. He never allowed me to use a vehicle to buy groceries. I worked teaching at a college and tried very hard. He had no friends and gave no presents.
Yuk
stingy with time and money
WTF!
Why marry if you're not gonna do the nightly? and everything else you mentioned.
i sometimes wonder if im narcissistic but id rather hug my lady to sleep than never even touch her, i want kids dammit!
why "commit" to not commit!
@@xerr0n some commit to ownership, not partnership
@@pysq8 that's still a very distorted way to use a marriage.
marriage is the announcement and wow for the team effort of making and raising kids
A lot of your fans would appreciate a response on the copyright strikes against Dr. Sam Vadkin. It's really painting you in a terrible way and if it's true, you are destroying the TH-cam community. Sam's material is of the utmost importance and relevance. You don't need to punish a vulnerable community.
The truth about the 5 things you bring to a friendship that are not in your friends is absolutely brilliant.
It describes so many of the crappy people I used to call friends.
They just gave nothing and talked about themselves and never listened to me. I only had a monologue from them. They always within seconds turned the attention back to themselves and what they had to say. And I got very tired of it. I don't tolerate it anymore. No company is better than bad company
100%
He's not interested in dealing with this. That says everything about the man.
What are you referring to?
Sam says boys are girls and only different because of their conditioning.
Don't agree at all.
I see girls and boys and they are naturally born different it's in their genes.
So I don't hang on his teachings anymore
I finally am making a hard decision to cut out a ‘friend’ that I later realised was high on the covert narcissism scale. You’re absolutely right that these people cannot do adult horizontal mature relationships, you cannot even have mature discussions with them about relational issues…They can’t do it or maybe they just don’t want to do it, probably both.
I’m on the final stage of cutting them off, and this week I’m letting go of them for good… I thought he could change with time but I was wrong, the passive aggression has always been there and tbh I put up with it for a while because it wasn’t always directly aimed at me (and I thought he was a fundamentally good person but had a bit of a arsy side) and the guy is pretty funny however sadly now I no longer am willing to tolerate his infantilism and want him out of my life. These people are very vindictive and spiteful people, they pose as your friend, use you for what they need/want and are extremely petty and venomous people. He would always talk in doublespeak whereby nearly every ‘meaningful’ sentence had a alternative meaning that was discreetly concealed and packaged to be elusive enough for him to disregard responsibility if held to account and obscure enough that he could discount your claim upon opening the packaged message (which he wanted me to get btw or fly under the radar whereby he’s insulting me whilst being amicable) and invert it so as to make out you’re the ‘bad’ friend etc (I’m sure you all know the script…).
I’m sure there will be smear campaigns and he will tell everyone sensitive information I confided in him when I trusted him but I’m more than willing to go through all that to get such a corrosive person out of my life for good.
Amen!
Owen you comment was very well written 👏🏻 I can empathise, right now I’m enduring the phase where my confidences to the narc are now being exposed and it’s not good, however, im only seeing positives as once the drama is over there are no more holds or living in fear of this exact thing being exposed over me and I’m free to move onwards with my life sans them. Obviously with a lot of lessons learnt along the way. All the best with your endeavours x
If you even TRY to talk about anything real, especially sharing/relationships, they absolutely go into a RAGE!
@@theoriginal7727 Thank you for your comment validating my experience with the covert narcissist husband. The only acceptable topic for conversation are: politics, sports and his dissatisfaction with life. If I make attempt to set the boundaries or God forbid, I have a request, he gets angry and passive aggressive.
Best of Luck - Love and Light to you !!
@@BlowinFree Thank you, it took me a long time to put the patterns together and consider that maybe this person wasn’t the person I kept telling myself they were (who I wanted to believe they were) and then gradually things have become more apparent and clear. Best of wishes to you and keep strong!
They are the trickiest to figure out
Richard, could you please stop your bogus strikings of Vaknin’s videos? He helped me deal with my psychopathic narcissistic father’s gaslighting when I started remembering being raped at age 6 by my borderline mother’s lover with her active complicity. Preventing people who need it from getting useful content is absolutely not healthy boundaries.
Thank you.
Flying monkey 🐒
@@clararob9869 Nice to meet you, I’m Charles.
@@clararob9869 You deleted your comment, but Richard highlighted it, apprently. Thanks, Richard!
@@charlesp.8555 I did not delete my comment... But nice try trying to make me out to be something I'm not how very narcissist of you 🤣🤣🤣
@@clararob9869 How the hell could someone know that someone they have never met is a narcissist? Do you have a secret technique no psychologist on Earth knows about?
Thank you so much. Once I pointed out I was the one over five years of driving in wind, rain and snow to go visit him and his answer was well. You only came when you wanted to, and it was always to rescue him from some pain or sickness or need, but it still wasn’t enough as everything else. Thank you so so much.
Can you please do a video about how withdrawing & isolating is a result of narcissistic abuse? A lot of what is mentioned at the beginning of this video overlaps with what empaths experience after years of dismissal, invalidation & being silenced.
Ok Richard, we all got the point! It does not make you look like the smarter one to keep bashing you know who. We all know who he is and for a long time now - we'll choose to either listen to him or not. Thanks for the additional signs of Covert Narcissism, that helped. Now it's time to put it to rest. Hurtful, Painful, I agree. As you say MOVE ON!
flying monkey?
Richard you're a G-d send! I'm sad about Vaknin but I will never stop watching your content.
Everything you say is right on point.
Hey what are you sad about vaknin for? What happened?
I see some people in the comments hating on Richard about this
#3 & #4 occurred frequently, for decades, literally, in my 36 year marriage. I would be talking with or to my ex, but he was usually absorbed in his phone screen. Sometimes the tv, but more often his phone. He wouldn't even look at me while I spoke. Sometimes he's yawn. But at some point, he'd pull that bit-- "What was that? What were you saying?" and I'd either have to repeat myself, or just say "Never mind, you weren't listening anyhow."
His reply to that? "But you're always talking!"
As the years rolled on, I would stop and say, "You haven't heard a word I just said, have you?" (This often occurred also later on if I would remind him that, yes, I absolutely DID tell you that this morning/yesterday/ an hour ago.)
His response? "But you say so much!"
In the last year we were together, as I was deciding how to end the marriage and file for divorce (more going on here than just ignoring me, we had a 36 year history of his behavior and abuse), I would be sitting in the same room with him, speaking to him, noticing that I might as well be a part of the furniture, because he wasn't looking at me or even paying attention.
I started doing this thing where I would stop mid-sentence, and not say another word. Just stop even trying to communicate.
His response?
He'd either look at me MINUTES after I'd stopped, and say, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear you", (were in the same damn room 5 feet apart!)
Or, he'd finally look up from his phone and look at me and I would say "Oh never mind. You don't care anyway."
Or, he would just go on scrolling through his phone as if he were the only one in the room, at which point, I would get up and leave the room, without another word.
That made me cry a few times, silently, away from him, somewhere else. But soon after that I stopped feeling hurt about it and realized, that was my answer. This is how much I matter to him.
Of course, I recognize how much I'd mattered to him 20 years prior when he was cheating on me for nearly a year while I was home taking care of our young kids and basically treating him like a king when he was home.
But back then I was going and dumb and afraid to leave him-- because he wouldn't leave and threatened to take the kids away from me if I did.
So I stayed.
I'm free now, and healing and a whole lot happier.
Omg your life was mine but I only lasted 13 years. I hope you're happy and enjoying yourself now xx
The first two items on Richard’s list are actually HEALTHY survival techniques for this lady, post narcissistic abuse. After my every move being criticized and questioned, after every fabric of my being was criticized, I am quite happy self-centered and free of unnecessary, unsolicited, criticism. Yes. I will not tolerate criticism at all. )
On my channel trolls are removed without notice.)
Soooo if you are a man dating a woman who has the FIRST TWO items going on, dig deeper. She may be pure gold.
Sam Vaknin is putting you on BLAST!!!!
there are so many flying monkeys!
@@HomeFromFarAway 🤡
@@HomeFromFarAwayit is ironic is it not
Richard - I watched one of your videos last night and it was very very eye opening, thank you for the content.
I also watched a Sam Vaknin video on the same subject and it was also life changing information.
I don’t understand the feud between you two but please don’t force Sam to remove videos from his page that are helping lots of people.
I would like to watch you both.
Totally agree.
Ok so I'm not the only one who sees this feud.
Would you please let Sam Vaknin doing his job, please!
Richard Grannon please stop fighting Prof. Sam Vaknin . I have been listening both of you for years to understand toxic behaviours and could see that you where at many parts learning from him. His content is desparately needed .
Agreed!
Thank you for clearly explaining traits of a covert narcissist and for your honesty.......my mum is a covert narcissist and even though I have done lots of therapy (I do not have her in my life anymore) and am continuing to work on myself, I still occasionally have narcissists/abusive people slip under my radar and into my life. I can recognise it and let go of them but sometimes I'm like......really? Have I just let one in again??
He's just been outed as a fraud. He is trying to sabotage the worlds leading expert Sam Vaknin. He is attempting to steal his work and present it as his own work. FRAUD ALERT
I don’t think we can live in a narc free world. They are everywhere. We have to interact with them at work..can’t avoid them.
Brilliant Richard - you’ve nailed it/ them
What's going on with Sam? Pretty insane to see that status update from his channel. What the fuck!
Hey Richard - no need to be embarrassed - you are in the trenches with the rest of us! I am glad you recognized what was happening! I think your experience is valuable - I hope it helps you as well as others the next time you run into someone who doesn’t know how to relate in a healthy way.
Not only do they yawn but they also keep looking at the clock when you are talking.
that is SO true, ie you have no value.
Or their phone
They will also do ANYTHING to steal attention or divert attention to them INCLUDING chatting to the person you told them you're interested in, telling total strangers about past personal dramas / or traumas, talking louder over you so only they are heard... randomly dancing in the middle of a restaurant (yes I've witnessed these things!)
They don't care who they embarrass, they have zero sympathy, attention span, or consideration to give unless they will gain from it. They don't think twice about ruining relationships between others for their own gain / control! Run from these people!!!
Mine do not eye roll. He actually smiles and has that smirk on his face. I have come to the conclusion that there is no use, at all, to talk these people on emotional level. What is very useful is to be aware about who these people are, what is their mindset. It is absolutely exhausting and will drive someone crazy to try to understand them or even try to level with them to communicate. Save yourself, save your effort. You cannot understand what is not understandable. These are very broken people who coerce others to go down with them to “their other worldly reality”. Their mindset is ME, MY WORLD, MYSELF. This is deeply ingrained in them. If you know this clearly, You do not exist!!!
Thanks to this channel and Vaknin’s!❤
PLEASE RICHARD. DONT BLOCK SAM VAKNIN FROM TH-cam. YOUR PROBLEMS ARE PERSONAL. WE NEEF THOSE VIDEOS AND HIS LECTURES.
Whoa... what happened?? Loved their videos together
i think this is a flying monkey
Dear God... 35 year old male here, this is so on point I wanna cry... I am in complete denial still because I dont want to believe good chunk of my life has been a lie(relationships with them) but last year of my life has been so eye opening I cant deny the facts. And without the internet I dont think I would have realized what kind of people I have been surruounded with, from immediate family to coworkers... Its like am a magnet for them and reading about this for months and reflecting on myself and my life of course I am magnet for them, I have been raised by them to support them and their egos.
Hey, no shame!! I was also 35 when I finally found an excellent therapist, critically examined all my relationships, and cut contact with all the toxic people I’d accumulated - it was like plucking off ticks after a really challenging hike. And I’ll tell you, there weren’t many people left!
I am proud of you for your courage and emotional maturity in facing this and dealing with it. The rest of your life is going to be so much better. I mean, you could have done this at 65, right?! 😎
I feel the same ..im ashamed of how I've supported people's ego's who actually didn't care about me at all and diminished myself , to get validation and attention and connection . You're not alone .I now stop trying to get connection from the wrong people .
Lol on the listening thing, my mom is the narc and you couldn't pay her to pretend to care while you're talking. My siblings won't believe me that our mom is a narc, to them she's just an introvert, selfish, weird (maybe autistic), socially awkward, traumatized from her childhood and always down on her luck. But they believe she's a good person, innocent, a victim, or even oblivious and when she rages it's bc she's insecure, or crazy. But they don't believe she's ever malicious or knows she's hurtful. I no longer believe that bc I have tried with her for years. If a good person does something that causes harm and is made aware of it, they will want to change! Not her, not ever.
after being in a relationship with one of these people, they are just, SO CONFUSING to deal with, they give you silent treatment and leave you confused, their level of passion aggressiveness is on a whole other level.
If you don’t stop trying to get Vaknin’s channel deleted for the copyright claims, we will have TH-cam audit each and every one of your videos for the very same and more.
We’ve already reached out to TH-cam and they know what you’re up to.
Don’t risk your channel over this.
Keep making your money on here and move on.
I only post material I own the intellectual copyright for. Which is one of TH-cam’s most basic rules by the way.
Absolutely shameful for copyright striking Vaknin and others.
when did that happen?
What happened?
flying monkeys
Hey, please explain the situation with Sam Vaknin. Thanks
I've suspected for a long time that my soon-to-be ex-wife might be a narcissist. This video helps clarify things because she checks a few things off this list and other points mentioned by commenters here :
1. Hyper-sensibility to criticism/no self-criticism or self-awareness
2. Quick to exasperation for little things
3. Victim mentality
4. Passive aggression
5. Constantly trying to seek validation/to be the center of attention
6. Putting me down in public
That's a bitter pill to swallow.
I hope you and Sam Vaknin patch things up. These volleys are interesting and somewhat entertaining, but your collaborations are truly excellent, and I hope will happen again.
His envy of Sam has reached a boiling point. He is trying to erase him so he can present himself as the worlds leading expert. So please join the growing movement in exposing this "Man" as the fraud he is.
“Not listening” with a caveat. They can listen when they want to. When they don’t want to, they employ verbal abuse tactics. Verbal abuse is any action or words meant to cut off communication. An action would be “not listening” , yawning, walking away. Words include “You’re just trying to start a fight” when I brought up something needing resolved (in a respectful way and tone). Was married 30 yrs to covert narc so I’m an Expert. Thanks, Richard!
To hear that even those who's WORKING with this admits that they gets "fooled" is actually nice to hear :-) Gives atleast me room to just pat myself on the shoulder and not be to hard on myself if I end up with more Narcissisic "friends" again^^
They target compassionate sensitive enpaths which I won't change but certainly have a stronger narc radar now and have no qualms abouts cutting them off!
Passive aggressiveness is the main reason I started looking at your channel. Ignoring me because I did who knows what! Yawning when I’m talking or just talking over me!
Great content as usual. Having been around people with strong narcissistic traits my entire life I could tell how manipulative and passive aggressive Sam is even only through the short interactions he has had with you and others on youtube.
Me too, i could see that. Sam always has to be the "top dog" and gets frustrated when too much attention is on Richard.
I’m wondering if Richard is actually referring to another notable friend he recently parted ways with. SV makes no attempts to hide his narcissism, in fact he’s built his entire brand around it. The other friend, although it pains me to say it as I enjoy his content, may actually be the one who slipped past Richard’s narc radar. 😕
@@cosmicjourney1111 oh i see!!! i was wondering why he said it slipped past his radar, if that was Sam. That makes total sense.
I'm not including any names bc why feed the beast. But... 💯. Easy to see that building in videos. I've been waiting for the bubble to burst. Makes a great teaching tool via example in real time. Sorry Richard had to be the sacrificial lamb on that lesson though 🤣
@@angelam81 absolutely a great teaching tool, almost right out of a textbook. What astounds me, though, is how the majority of the followers of the unnamed person refuse to recognize what is happening before their very eyes, even after watching the guy for years and presumably learning a ton about narcissism. Many of them are now actively participating in the smear campaign. Sad all around.
You've been such a help to me in the past recovering - self-awareness, boundaries to list a few. I guess the reminder lesson here is, "When you play with matches, you get burned." Best to you and this small hiccup in your friendship life. 💛
I tend to withdraw alot from people and the world but thats normally to have time for myself to recover and replenish my energies. Especially if been around alot of demands plus i suffer from depression. I tend not to dump on other's and sort it through myself. We all need that healthy withdrawal though 💚
Very interesting.
Mum is a Covert, a sibling is overt, they live together now & covert is queen bee.
She / Covert parent, owns the house & is fully retired. E.g. retired from cooking, from grocery shopping, from driving , from mowing the lawn etc.
The over daughter does everything now & is essentially the slave. Oh & the scapegoat ( I left the dysfunctional family unit many years ago which caused an implosion of the remaining members of the dysfunctional family, while Having been completely ignorant of Narcissism, at the time of, " What is wrong with these people " lol ).
So I completely agree with this as I've seen it over & over again. Throughout the earlier years. Thankyou Richard. Another great video.
Hey Richard I'm disappointed to see you are trying to take down Sam. I like you both and you both contribute good things. But please don't try to erase him. No one cares about petty personal spats. We care about intellectual content and help. Please put it aside. You both have alot of fans and there's no need for ego wars.
I would rather listen to Richard any day than the other you refer to who's made a whole brand out of being an overt Narcissist and regarding everyone beneath them.
@@hazel9903 I'd rather have the 'choice' to listen to the person with most experience & qualifications in this field.
His envy of Sam has reached a boiling point. He is trying to erase him so he can present himself as the worlds leading expert. So please join the growing movement in exposing this "Man" as the fraud he is.
@@DaleJay667 EXACTLY thank you! People can "like" (or not) whoever they want. It doesn't disqualify opposing viewpoints nor justify censorship. In this case what's far worse and frankly concerning to me is that so many people would rather stand behind a celebrity rather than seek insight (however disagreeable) from a true master in the field. It also is disturbing to me the level of dishonesty people are privy to instead of the opposite. Though, sadly, it's not surprising.
I like them both... nobody is perfect and what is special about these guys is they have overcome what seems an impossibility and are able to enlighten those of us involved in the fascinating world of mental illness... from experience !!
This is very compelling. Thank you, Richard. I see no reason to disagree with you.
Clear, short, very informative = great video, as often with your work. A great thank you.
This is such an accurate video, I have seen all these traits in Coverts, thank you Richard for this very valid video., one to save❤
Oh boy o boy Richard.
What else would you expect from Sam. 🎉
Thank you !!! This helped me identify my ex wasn’t narcissistic ! I love how precise you are !!! My ex was a really good listener😊
Richard. Thank you for explaining these pointers. Experience shared is experience gained. I notice Covert Narcissism runs parallel to the symptoms of C-PTSD. It would be interesting to make a video on how to separate and differentiate between the two. Thanks' for all your informative work. 🙂
Hi Richard, I've watched all the other channels on Covert/Vulnerable Narcissism and your description is by far the best, spot on and summed it up in less than 10 minutes. My mother was a vulnerable narcissist and all that you've just described was her. Except she wouldn't yawn when listening to you, she would nod and smile, but you could see like a shutter close down behind her eyes. When you asked her 'Well what did I just say'? She couldn't confirm and get frustrated and turn round and blame me! Also, vulnerable narcissists are easily impressed by grandiose/malignant narcissists or anyone who's very overpowering. My diagnosis is Covert Narcissists would like to be like that but they just know they haven't got in them? Anyway I've duly subscribed. 👍🏻🤗
What do you mean, you’re not perfect?! 🤣 I love that you show your vulnerability. Helps me from making the same mistakes 😘 + you make me laugh ❤
Thank You For Watching Shadda
@@RICHARDGRANNON Please repky sam Vaknin. And allow him to post youtube videos.
@@alejandramarquez6804 Richard take credit for Sam Vaknin's work.
@@RICHARDGRANNON geez 🙄 where did all these trolls come from?! Oh who cares. I say…let ‘em come! Really it bumps you in the algorithm & you reach more people who need to see these videos 😆
@@ShaddaRose i am not a troll. Sam vaknin is the pioner of narcissim. He coined many of the word such narcissisitc abuse that richard use.
This is the epitome of my MIL. 28 years of being in her life now. She is a storm but I am my own personal storm shelter.
That number one trade could be misconstrued in people who have simply had enough of the world's bulshit
Very nicely said. Narcisst or not...some people just lack self awareness and respect.
I'm out of a narcissists energy...I find these videos help keep me on track. Thanks for your work.
Do you value the work of Sam Vaknin?
I think he does. He has even created courses based on it, which he is selling to victims of narcissistic abuse. I can understand him being unhappy about some of the things Sam has been saying about him in recent videos, but it is that which they need to address. Trying to get Sam's channel closed down is not a proportioate response, and adversely affects all the people who would benefit from the educational content on Sam's channel.
@@heatherlloyd8207 Where are these videos of Sam saying anything about Gammon? I'm subscribed & follow Sam on other platforms, I never saw anything? Other than his posts showing his channel/work is under attack & some correspondence with a non replying Gammon I've not seen anything else?
@Dale Jay I've tried twice to reply with details but each time my comment disappeared after posting.
@@heatherlloyd8207Hmmm thsts strange, thanks for trying anyway...
@Dale Jay I'll try once more with just a couple of examples. In the first few minutes of the last published video, "Narcissist Pays Heavy Price ... " he refers to his "former fake friend" with his "rather limited intelligence." Although he doesn't name him, he has identified his "fake friend" as G, 43 minutes into an earlier video "Narcissist's Betrayal Fantasy: Painful Mommy Separation." Also watch "How to Resolve (T)horny Issues" from about 1 min 30. What he suggests at 2 min 25, was subsequently set up, link under 'Community' heading on Vaknin's channel 3 weeks ago.
The points listed in this video are by far the most accurate description of covert narcissim in my own personal experience with one. Particularly the withdrawal and them being a terrible friend!
Thank you for your immensely helpful and inspiring videos . Top man 👏. In my three significant experiences with coverts they all presented as victims of abuse eg Exes, parents etc telling me pity ploy tales from the very beginning, testing my sympathy / empathy. A red flag 🚩
He's just been outed as a fraud. He is trying to sabotage the worlds leading expert Sam Vaknin. He is attempting to steal his work and present it as his own work. FRAUD ALERT
Thank you so much for this! I am dealing with someone at work, and the conversation you described at about the eight minute mark is exactly how conversations have gone with him for the past 10 years and they have driven me insane
Please don't damage the TH-cam channel of Sam Vaknin, because we need that videos. i don't know what happened between you 2, and honestly i don't care and is not my problem either, but nobody else must pay for the issue that occurs, the channel is very very very important for the audience, think about this carefully, thank you.
YES!^ Dr. Vaknin and his lectures are important. He has helped a lot of people...
100%
And another flying monkey.
@@Feber2001 And so has Richard.
Sorry I don't understand. How can Richard damage Sam Vaknins You Tube channel? Sam Vaknin is the best.
The not listening thing is bang on. Couldn’t put my finger on it! I’d have to listen to the most boring retelling of their daily routine/ailments. As soon as I would mention my day the reply would be “oh” IF they didn’t cut me off first with something unrelated. What does OH mean?!?!? I couldn’t understand why I was slowly losing my mind.
Richard please do more videos on convert narcissists. I think there are just as many coverts out there as there are overts. They are just as dangerous cause they sneak under the radar and as you say, are hard to detect until you work the code out. My mother is a covert and my lord, it has changed my world working that out. It’s not me, it’s her!!!!!!
Thank you so much for saying that even you were fooled by a covert narcissist. I am a therapist myself and I was pulled in for 17 years by a covert narcissist. Your videos have been IMMENSELY helpful to me!
This is the best explanation I've heard describing covert narrcisim and that's my ex, bang on! It's subtle and it's a head fuck. I take responsibility for my part, I'm a co dependant so of course I saw the wounded little lad in him and i wanted to give him all the love he never had! What a fool I was. But it's a year on, not always no contact but more or less and the more work I do on my self the less inclined I am to reach out to negative people and I just keep reminding myself that I never felt loved by him. I went back into a 12 step programme and read everything I could about co dependancy and now I'm really understanding bounderies but I'm still vulnerable at times, its hard wired but I know it can be unwired. My shamanic practice helps as does seeing a homeopathic practitioner. Bottom line guys and gals, it's all about self love and stacks of it. From a song by Francis Dunnery..... 'Follow the grief trail home'
Thanks Richard.
Keep moving forward, good on you for healing and taking steps forward for YOU
@@RICHARDGRANNON We also want Sam Vaknin videos. Please allow him to release his videos.
This is one of the best videos I've seen so thank you!
A big tell for covert narc is if they quickly close " space" between you and try to manufacture a " bond" that seems unnaturally fast [ once you see how immoral and pathetic they are they lose advantage] . Speed is the cloak they wear . As far as Sam goes, I don't know how you put up with him for so long, always felt a wierd Jealousy/dominate undercurrent from him towards you while you seemed genuinely kind and deferential.
Then you have a long way to go in developing a narc detector because this guy is fake af.
@@RunninQHsRock what an insightful comment you made, thanks for sharing 😊
so many glying monkeys
Withdrawal can be caused by depression alone. It can be a symptom of so many things. Even good people can withdraw from time to time depending on their state of mind and what they're going through.
Well! That's a way of addressing it! And it absolutely coincides with a personal experience happening just now. I guess the "eye rolling" was the keyword for me.
Spot On! Richard! With the friends remark!
Thank You so much Richard!! I learn a lot from your videos!!! So educating and helpful!!❤
5 out of 5. Thanks Richard, now I know I'm not crazy.
Please leave Sam alone and his channel xx
After this video, i had a feeling my pal was not listening properly, just waiting for me to finish what I was saying so she could turn it back on her subject. I find it really rude and it is happening more often. We have just had a falling out because she wanted me to lend her money for a afternoon out we were supposed to have. I don't borrow or lend money and felt quite let down as I wanted to go out, in the end I said I would have to cancel. I was then subjected to the silent treatment, I am glad that I no longer have contact with her.
For years I wondered why I am the one who takes the initiative to pick up the phone to call freinds and then have to listen to them ramble for an hour ,not let me speak, and dare I jump in for 30 seconds to share then it's back to them. I almost exclusively pick these for freinds, but no more. I am woke. I see what I never saw before. Now I will search for "normal" freinds.