I hope its a April Fools, falling into the sponsor trap, the sponsor in question and to top it off the cardinal sin of interrupting content for said garbage sponsor. Thumbs down :(
@@dknowles60That wasn't directly Boeing's fault. More the mechanic who fixed the tailstrike improperly. Well, that was a Boeing employee I think, but still. No construction mistakes or anything.
@@simonriley3584 wrong from your Fed Gov Faa and NTSB Boeing was paid very big dollars to fix that Plane right , Boeing did not even do the Repair to Boeing standards
MD was a cool company, but their executives should've been canned. Bringing them into Boeing ruined the company, bunch of bean counters with minimal regard for safety. We know what they did to the MD safety record and we've now seen that spill over into Boeing.
Actually it’s more the opposite. MD executives essentially took control of Boeing and they have struggled ever since. Correct about bean counters. Now every program at Boeing is a mess.
@@dknowles60 Although a tragic mistake, I can't really equate that to the other eithers that started to come much later. That seemed much more off a 1 off situation.
And the F-15 is entering its 49th year in service, and a new version was just released, probably guaranteeing a 70 year life. Amazing for a commercial jet, but this is a fighter. A fighter that is still formidable, and is undefeated in combat.
Douglas was fine by itself. It was when it merged with McDonnell that the quality of the planes began to take a nosedive, if you'll pardon the pun. The worst thing Boeing ever did was to buy out McDonnell-Douglas, and allow their executives to remain in positions of power. Boeing was once a great company that really took pride in their work. Now it's all about cuuting corners and substandard product. The MAX was clearly a McDonnell-Douglas product, not a Boeing product. The best thing for Boeing to do is leave Chicago, go back to Seattle, dump all M-D execs and get back to basis, in other words, making real Boeing planes.
The cost cutting exercise around the MAX is scandalous. Aribus' next gen narrowbody to replace the a320 was a ground up rebuild. The MAX was trying to continue to use a 40 year old air frame design. To accommodate the bigger engines they had to move the engines forward, and in doing so altered the centre if thrust. This would have been OK had there not been the software issues.
@@dahorn100011 yup. Like I said, the MAX was an M-D creation, not a Boeing creation. That's why it sucks ditch water! Get rid of the M-D execs, and that would go a long way toward improving things.
@@magnustan841 MD business culture and core values run the Boeing Company..................cost, schedule and shareholder value over quality & safety. Dennis Muilenburg was once a Boeing engineer and he sold his soul for executive management. Muilenburg didn't oversee the design of the 737 MAX, that was done by former CEO James McNerney! McNerney groomed Muilenburg and once McNerney retired Muilenburg became CEO....................the MAX was fully developed and had it's first flight 6 months after Muilengurg became CEO.
I did a internship at McDonnell Douglas in the late 80s and the MD-12 was gaining ground. Also what hardly is ever mentioned is that there were also going to be 2 more variants of the MD-11. One version was going to have a longer fuselage. The other was going to experiment with a seating configuration in the belly to the wing section most likely coach/economy. The mock up of the MD95 was going to be turboprop, engine still mounted on the rear but twin propellers on each side......
It was called the "Propfan" concept. More fuel efficient than high by-pass turbofans at the time but a a marketing disaster. Way too noisy than even old turbojets and they reminded passengers of old propeller planes (like the DC-3) that their grandparents used to fly in.
I worked at McDonnell Douglas. Management there was of very low quality. And really low class people. That poor culture was most likely transferred to Boeing. The effects of that we observed recently. The engineering mistakes they did with 737 were appalling. And they tried to cover everything up - starting with the CEO. That should tell you everything. I don't feel comfortable flying on Boeing planes - designed and manufactured after their merger with McDonnell Douglas.
The giant "Fly DC Jets" neon sign is maintained as a landmark at the old Douglas factory in Long Beach, California. The building is now used by Mercedes-Benz.
The C-17 Globemaster III cargo military quad jet: after the merger, Boeing had continued the C-17 project McDonald Douglas originally had. The former hanger assembly building is still here at the Long Beach Airport in California, including the former assembling building (now owned by Mercedes Benz North America) for the MD-80/95/717 with the neon sign that says “Fly DC Jets!”.
Yes, the city of Long Beach surprisingly fought to keep the sign and made sure it is completely functional. Mercedes Benz wanted to remove the sign...I believe 🤔
@@darkpepsi As a Messier-Bugatti landing gear engineer, I was lucky enough to stay in Long Beach in 1996 to work on initial projects for the MD-XX, by the very moment of the merger with Boeing. I worked at Carson street buildings. I could see this sign every day commuting from the Marriott hotel Long Beach to Douglas. I worked with Willy Bohringer, Dan Gargas, Anabelle Sandan...
Although the DC-3 is right up there, greatest contribution was probably the DC-8. There’s a story of how the DC-8 offered an advantage over the 707, because the DC-8 had 6-abreast seating, the Boeing only had 5. Pan Am, who was a major launch customer for both types, asked Boeing to widen the 707, otherwise they would flock to buy DC-8s. If that was the case, all the other airlines would be knocking on Douglas’ door. Boeing did widen the 707, producing the 707-320 Intercontinental and the rest is history. Boeing dominated and dominated and dominated until Airbus came along. So you could say the DC-8 made a substantial unknown contribution to the duopoly we see today.
Finnair and Douglas were like bread and butter: DC-3 was beautiful plane which still even today flies over Helsinki in nice summer days to remind us from early days of commercial air travel. DC-8 opened route between Helsinki and New York. DC-10-30 as ER-conversion flying from Helsinki to Tokyo was at time in the early days of the eighties first Non-Stop service between Europe and Asia with flight time of 15 hours over North Pole also the longest. DC-9-15 which we called "tumppi-ysi" (cigarette stump-niner) was a marvelous plane. It was like fighter jet with engines for larger variant and when flying short domestic routes with light loads, it truly had some vertical speed. And then there was MD-11, the plane that in the end I believe had only handful of true friends in Airlines like who really understood how great plane it actually and really was when not giving too much attention to operation economics (fuel burn and maintenance of extra engine). Many pilots at Finnair considered it as the best commercial plane in the world. It was like downgrade when A340-300 came to replace it before A350-900 could arrive to fleet. And things could have ended with completely different path: When need for long range plane came as to avoid Soviets high air tariff and requirement for stopover, Finnair actually was looking in the seventies towards to 747SP. Boeing was very keen to sell the type but not just that but complete fleet. From future plans, 757-200 was plane that really interested Finnair, but 737 didn't. 747SP was quickly forgot when guys from Douglas offered to add extra tanks to DC-10-30 to make it fly the route as needed.
Yeah, as a MD11 (sim) pilot I can confirm that this was very automatic and futuristic plane, especially when you see when MD11 was build. I agree that the fuel economic is no the best, it's good but compare to GE90 it's not that economic. For finall words, for me, the MD11 was a great airplane, just overrated. Intresting think is that most of airlines that bought MD11 became addicted to it for a long time, that says a lot about this plane❤️👍.
There's a joke that I first heard regarding an automotive merger, but which also fits for MDD. "How do you pronounce McDonnell-Douglas? The 'Douglas' is silent." Notice that after the merger, they never developed a new commercial airplane ever again. The DC-9 and DC-10 were designed before the merger, after which they just continued to stretch and update them until the end. I'm lead to understand that most of the MDD management came from the McDonnell side, and they brought with them an aversion to risk which comes from those sweet sweet cost-plus government contracts. Like Lockheed, they weren't used to spending billions on designing an airplane and then selling it on the market. They were used to selling an airplane, having a take-it-to-the-bank contract, and then getting started on making airplanes. They walked into that merger with a huge pile of F-4 money, and promise of massive F-15 money that no one in Earth was going to compete with them for. Douglas had spent a ton making the DC-10, trying to beat Lockheed and Boeing, and coming out of the merger it was time to split that market 3 ways and fingers crossed that enough pie came in. Well the pie mostly went to Boeing, and that taught the McAir people that this free market commercial stuff is for squares. So they decided to play it cheap and phone it in, developing no new airframes even as the fresh new 757, 767, 777, and all of Airbus sprang up around them. By some accounts they took the cheapskate strategy all the way to the 737 Max (after ANOTHER merger saw the conservative McDonnell people take the top floors and big desks). If it weren't for the 787, I would truly call those people a cursed plague. Bonus points for anyone who knows which car company the joke was originally about.
I knew it. I don’t know a thing about cars but I knew that Chrysler and Daimler Benz had a very messy merger around the same time as McDonnell Douglas and Boeing.
The DC9s are my absolute favorite family of planes ever built,so thank you so so much McDonnell Douglas for gives us a timeless beautiful aircraft and your legacy lives on in the 717s/MD95s 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙
No mention of the failures of the DC-10 which led to 100's of deaths.. The culture of McDonnell Douglas was profit-driven with less attention to passengers safety. That culture was transferred to Boeing when the two companies merged and eventually led to the failures of the 737 max program.
I've worked for them all Boeing, northrup,lockheed martin,raytheon,mcdonnell Douglas was far and away the best company I ever worked for and made the best acft hands down
Too bad the DC-10 had such an awful safety record that even the updated MD-11 with name change couldn't save the company. Personally I preferred the L-1011 ...
you know the Dc 10 30 had a very good Safety Record. you know the 737 max has had more accdents per hour flowen. you know the 737 max is still grounded in china
The MD-11 had problems of its own. They failed to meet their range and fuel efficiency targets, which was a big problem because several carriers were planning on pushing the range to its maximum. It also had some unique safety issues, mostly related to the undersized horizontal stab and reduced static stability (both to try and hit that fuel burn target). In some conditions, accidentally bumping the flap/slat handle could take that stability margin away completely, causing some uncontrolled pitch movements that actually resulted in fatalities in flight from people being thrown around. The low elevator authority also gave the MD-11 the highest landing speed of any contemporary airliner, coming over the fence at like 170. That was compounded by a less than ideal landing gear configuration and structure which made the plane prone to bounces on landing, and prone to breaking a wing clean off if the bounce was not handled exactly right. I personally love the MD-11, it's one of my favorite airliners ever, but objectively it just wasn't there with the competition.
The DC-10's safety record was due to non - manufacturer fault. The Cargo door on the DC-10 in Paris was found to not be closed/locked correctly. Redundancy in cockpit warning systems with a latch design change cured that in addition to training ground crew on close and lock procedures. Remember Boeing 747 over Hawaii had the same problem ... fortunate for the 747 pilots were able to fly her back to Honolulu with a huge hole in the fuselage. 2nd poor situation for DC-10 was Chicago. The engine fell off on take off. Later to be found an airline maintenance fault in engine change out procedures. 3rd was Sioux City, Iowa. That was an engine turbo fan blade that came loose severing hydraulics. Engine manufacturer. The pilot of that aircraft survived along with many passengers. Unfortunately on final approach lost lift and experienced a fatal landing for some. Every aircraft model flying has experienced some fatalities. So, I don't believe its fair to blame a safety record. If that were the case, there would be no record that wasn't the size of a phone book for automobiles!
Douglas' biggest contribution was absolutely without a shadow of a doubt the DC-3. It served not just as a passenger hauler but also was one of many important planes during world war II. Its military variant, the C-47 played a vital role in the D-day raids. And nowadays? Those same planes are still in the air. Some have even been upgraded from their P&W R1830 radial engines to turboprops by a company named Basler and still fly regular cargo and wildfire fighting services.
it seems like ever since the 2 companies merged boeing became a big mess, the whole fiasco with the 737 max and now production issues with the 787, i used to be a boeing fan mainly because of the 747, 727, early variants of the 737, 707, you know what i mean, the older boeing jets but i’m now more of a Airbus fan because they care about safety and not money
Fun fact: since McDonnell Douglas and Boeing merged, Boeing’s logo changed. You can see a similarity between the McDonnell Douglas and the Boeing logo.
Not many countries own or flown the F15 ....The most one pilot or two? only enjoy.... The DC6 is operated through out the world from passenger travel to cargo carriers. It have a long life and still soldier On. I trust it is a niche more useful than the DC3.
I think DC - 3 is the had one of the biggest influences in aviation history, But MD - 11 design is the best ! Manufacturing aside, I think boeing - MD merger still affect poorly until today. Some exec that brought to boeing may be a reason for boeing's crisis today.
I think it's too difficult to say which one is better than others really because they all have their place and they have all helped to make aviation and fast travel what it is today.
The rot and downgrading of Boeing began with the integrated of McDonnell Douglas senior management. Boeing was once a world leading engineering corporation that suffered by idiots with MBA's from MD being foistered upon them. Bean counters overrode decisions by engineers, experienced quality control staff left in disgust after safety recommendations were ignored. This was evidenced in Congressional investigations as a result of the 737 MAX debacle. The quality control at the South Carolina 787 production facility was found to have serious deficiencies. Fuselage gaps exceeding tolerances, poor surface treatment of internal fuselage barrell sections, forward pressure bulkhead and door frame issues are just a few! The FAA was correct in cancelling Boeing's delivery certification as well as grounding the 737 Max pending redesign of critical flight control systems. Many a business school graduate have written dissertations on the poor business practices at Boeing. Strangely enough their total business culture slowly changed after the MD merger for the worse. The bean-counters and their shortcuts have cost Boeing tens of billions in profit and many more billions in lost orders - not to mention their reputation.
my dad worked here he designed planes he worked mechanically his mind attentive to details .. he enended up the night shift due to lack of skills dealing with people ....boeing took over he still worked for decades under boing he told me some things .. he really told me many things in many years but during his his life he definitely was not close to people he disappeared two years ago after getting mad about something i havent heard from him in two years ...my sistersaid he talked once to her last year said he cant walk his talking is going now all his family hasnt seen or heard from him in a year ...but oh he told me he was the only one who was working on the saftey of the airplanes who knew how to solve and he at 82 was still hand on then over the next years eventually pushed out so he knew tge other guys he trued to train were worthless they were nit understanding the seriousness he knew he said secrets it was scarey oh he gave me heads up many decades ago shared small things so not surprised of any of this
I do wish that the MD11 had found more success in the passenger variant market. Boeing sort of "ruined" commercial aviation when it comes to trijets. The 777 was a triumph to be sure, but it rendered MD11, DC10 and L1011 obsolete due to their less efficient trijet configuration. At least while plane-spotting we can still see many freighter variants. Another great video by LONG HAUL by Simple Flying. Keep up the top notch work!
I would put the blame on ETOPS rather than the 777, as all Boeing did was take advantage of the lessened restrictions on 2 engined aircraft operations.
Doesn't really matter that you liked Tri jets. It was always stop gap towards twins. Tri was just a stop gap measure until the engine technology evolved. The 777 was hardly the first. The A300 and 767 came well before. Not only the engine power and efficiency, an engine sitting on top of the plane greatly reduces aerodynamic efficiency of an airplane.
I often wonder what would happen to McDonnell Douglas if DC-10 was redesigned as twin-engine plane with new tail, engines, and perhaps wings. That would allow the company to compete with Boeing 777 and Airbus A330 more effectively instead of upgrading DC-10 to MD-11...
the C-17 had development issues and had to have the wing redesigned after failing the load test of the wing. Most folks would prefer to remember the good but all companies (Boeing included) like to gloss over the failures.
The MD-95 is not a shortened variant of the MD-90. But they indeed planned shorter and longer variants of the MD-90. The MD-90-10 and MD-90-50. Also for the 717 there were studies for a 717-100 and 717-300. Not building the stretched 717-300 was a big mistake by Boeing IMO.
Hey long haul. Thanks for switching back to long haul from takeoff. It's much better. However is it possible to get the previous long haul logo back it looks so much better than the previous. The back and white one is what I'm talking about. It works so much better with the name and the previous dark colour sets of the previous videos sigh as the air force one video
More to current commercial aviation would be British aviation master plan/policies from 1943 onwards, The broad based plans ranging from-commuter/regionals to intl long haul routes and a/c specs was very impressive.
Interesting video, apologies for the negative comment, but I couldn't avoid being concerned about what you're promising by using a VPN. Please do some deeper research on the matter, once you're advertising it you're being responsible for it.
What would it be if Toyota buys Fokker? Probably if Toyota buys Fokker, it end up with Fokker having Qantas as their number one customer of Fokker. All this ends up with Boeing being in third place as Airbus took 2nd place and Fokker being owned by Toyota be in 1st place so what end up with Qantas from Australia having a 100% Fokker fleet because it makes Toyota Fokker’s parent company, might put Boeing out of business.
MDs biggest contribution is probably the F15 and F18 Super Hornet fighters. Decades after their introduction they are still vital parts of our defense and that of our allies. Variants of both are still being produced while production of the F22 has already ended. Go figure.
So far as commercial jets were concerned, they probably only had one really successful model - the DC9 and it's successors, which ended up dominating a certain sector of the market. Failing to adequately develop, and then leaving it, possibly because the larger versions competed with the 737 cash cow, appears to be yet another big mistake - one, if Airbus develops the dash 500 version of the A220 can avoid.
McDonnell Douglas had a shot at survival if they gave the MD-11 a clean-sheet wing, more powerful engines, refined its flight controls and stretched that plane and its payload into 747 territory. Instead it was the bean-counters, squirrely LSAS software on the MD-11, its executives that ran the company (and literally some of its planes) into the ground.
Douglas and Boeing were rivals since the 30s. The nail in MDAs coffin came at one instance in the 90s. MDA proposed a military version of the DC10 that likely would have saved it from bankruptcy. At the same time Boeing submitted a proposal for the militarized 747 BUT the written Boeing proposal was completely BLANK, ie, it didn't have any plan. Page after page of Boeing's proposal were BLANK I believed MDA would figure that out To my dismay MDA fell for Boeing's fraudulent "proposal" and dropped out of the competition. "Paper airplanes" are always better and cheaper than ones you really have to build. All I could do was sit back quietly and wait for MDA to close up shop. Five years later MDA did close and was taken over by Boeing. Boeing then officially and very spitefully renamed MDA "McDonnell Aircraft Corporation a Wholely Owned Subsidiary of the Boeing Aircraft Corporation." Too bad.MDA had been the only company I didn't have to kick in the ass to get them to do things right. On the other hand, I once had to tell a Boeing chief engineer to say out loud in his car on his way home what he had said to me then and NEVER say it again. He had said to me regarding a system 'why do we have to build it right? We're ((the US) are never really going to use it anyway.' Later Boeing moved its headquarters from Seattle to Chicago which shed much of it's obligations to its employees who could not afford and did not desire to relocate.
Funny how you didn't mention the DC-10's bad reputation. When pepple with foreign accents narrate videos about american companies, I have to wonder how much do they really know about these companies ? Most times, you can tell by the content, that they didn't do in-depth research before posting things. Someone born in the United States, who is familiar with these companies, should do the narration.
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Um... You do know it's April Fool's day... right?
I hope its a April Fools, falling into the sponsor trap, the sponsor in question and to top it off the cardinal sin of interrupting content for said garbage sponsor. Thumbs down :(
this is a #ad not a april fools joke
You just earned yourself a dislike and I will never watch your channel again for including an advert in your video
@@edmundtan4577 Don't worry, the other channel is doing the same garbage thing to its viewers, they don't care!
McDonnell Douglas lives on today... It is DESTROYING Boeing.
Boeing did it to then selfs. Jal 123 says it all
@@dknowles60That wasn't directly Boeing's fault. More the mechanic who fixed the tailstrike improperly.
Well, that was a Boeing employee I think, but still.
No construction mistakes or anything.
@@simonriley3584 wrong from your Fed Gov Faa and NTSB Boeing was paid very big dollars to fix that Plane right , Boeing did not even do the Repair to Boeing standards
@@dknowles60 Boeing had the right procedures. You said it yourself, the mechanics didn't carry them out properly. Not Boeing's fault as a company.
@@simonriley3584 Boeing was their boss, they fail to do their job right, it is boeings fault in the End like the NTSB said
MD was a cool company, but their executives should've been canned. Bringing them into Boeing ruined the company, bunch of bean counters with minimal regard for safety. We know what they did to the MD safety record and we've now seen that spill over into Boeing.
Actually it’s more the opposite. MD executives essentially took control of Boeing and they have struggled ever since. Correct about bean counters. Now every program at Boeing is a mess.
@@johniii8147 that’s what he said
True, true and true. The 737-MAX disaster and 787 Dreamliner quality control issues are all due to the ex-MD execs and their cost cutting attitude.
@@johniii8147 boeing was a mess long befor the merger. JAL 123 says it all
@@dknowles60 Although a tragic mistake, I can't really equate that to the other eithers that started to come much later. That seemed much more off a 1 off situation.
The DC-3. It's been in the air now in continuous service for almost 90 years.
and there is no boeing that has been is service for apx 74 years
@@dknowles60 but Douglas doesn’t even exist anymore…
@@EvanAviator facts remain the same Boeing planes don't last except for the b 52 and kc135
And the F-15 is entering its 49th year in service, and a new version was just released, probably guaranteeing a 70 year life. Amazing for a commercial jet, but this is a fighter. A fighter that is still formidable, and is undefeated in combat.
@@EvanAviator but the DC3 is still flying
Do the rise and fall of Fokker next !!
We need this, Anthony Fokker has shaped American aviation
Why does Fokker sounds like F**ker to me
TH-cam will demonetize it because youtube will think its fucker instead of fokker
Fokker's decline in a nutshell: they got fokked
@Riley M. Hughes wait a minute.
I believe the greatest accomplishment was the F-15 fighter. Still a world class, formidable fighter almost 50 years later.
And the only fighter in history that has a 0 kills against record. The Eagle is undefeated in air combat. In any Air Force that flies it.
Douglas was fine by itself. It was when it merged with McDonnell that the quality of the planes began to take a nosedive, if you'll pardon the pun. The worst thing Boeing ever did was to buy out McDonnell-Douglas, and allow their executives to remain in positions of power. Boeing was once a great company that really took pride in their work. Now it's all about cuuting corners and substandard product. The MAX was clearly a McDonnell-Douglas product, not a Boeing product. The best thing for Boeing to do is leave Chicago, go back to Seattle, dump all M-D execs and get back to basis, in other words, making real Boeing planes.
The cost cutting exercise around the MAX is scandalous.
Aribus' next gen narrowbody to replace the a320 was a ground up rebuild. The MAX was trying to continue to use a 40 year old air frame design. To accommodate the bigger engines they had to move the engines forward, and in doing so altered the centre if thrust. This would have been OK had there not been the software issues.
Amen!
@@dahorn100011 yup. Like I said, the MAX was an M-D creation, not a Boeing creation. That's why it sucks ditch water! Get rid of the M-D execs, and that would go a long way toward improving things.
The MAX is made by Boeing, but you really think MD executives were involved? Was Dennis Miullenberg from MD?
@@magnustan841 MD business culture and core values run the Boeing Company..................cost, schedule and shareholder value over quality & safety. Dennis Muilenburg was once a Boeing engineer and he sold his soul for executive management. Muilenburg didn't oversee the design of the 737 MAX, that was done by former CEO James McNerney!
McNerney groomed Muilenburg and once McNerney retired Muilenburg became CEO....................the MAX was fully developed and had it's first flight 6 months after Muilengurg became CEO.
I did a internship at McDonnell Douglas in the late 80s and the MD-12 was gaining ground. Also what hardly is ever mentioned is that there were also going to be 2 more variants of the MD-11. One version was going to have a longer fuselage. The other was going to experiment with a seating configuration in the belly to the wing section most likely coach/economy. The mock up of the MD95 was going to be turboprop, engine still mounted on the rear but twin propellers on each side......
There did produce a special MD-80 with a sort of hybrid jet/turboprop didn’t they? But it got canned over development issues.
@@magnustan841 Could have, but it was before my time there
It was called the "Propfan" concept. More fuel efficient than high by-pass turbofans at the time but a a marketing disaster. Way too noisy than even old turbojets and they reminded passengers of old propeller planes (like the DC-3) that their grandparents used to fly in.
Did you grow up in Long Beach/SoCal?
@@_BusterHighmen yes I did..
I worked at McDonnell Douglas. Management there was of very low quality. And really low class people. That poor culture was most likely transferred to Boeing. The effects of that we observed recently. The engineering mistakes they did with 737 were appalling. And they tried to cover everything up - starting with the CEO. That should tell you everything. I don't feel comfortable flying on Boeing planes - designed and manufactured after their merger with McDonnell Douglas.
This idiot had obviously been fired for incompetence or worse
No body Hog tine Boeing and Forced Boeing to Buy McDonnell Douglas
IMO modern Boeing is pretty much just McDonnell Douglas with the Boeing name.
Their most important aircraft would have to be the Dakota (aka DC-3).
I trust the DC6 is on par with DC3...Truly a work horse.
I love Long Haul videos
Same
The giant "Fly DC Jets" neon sign is maintained as a landmark at the old Douglas factory in Long Beach, California. The building is now used by Mercedes-Benz.
The C-17 Globemaster III cargo military quad jet: after the merger, Boeing had continued the C-17 project McDonald Douglas originally had. The former hanger assembly building is still here at the Long Beach Airport in California, including the former assembling building (now owned by Mercedes Benz North America) for the MD-80/95/717 with the neon sign that says “Fly DC Jets!”.
Yes, the city of Long Beach surprisingly fought to keep the sign and made sure it is completely functional. Mercedes Benz wanted to remove the sign...I believe 🤔
@@vistalite-ph4zw Yes you are correct. Long Beach fought it and now it is now protected as a historical site/sign.
@@darkpepsi As a Messier-Bugatti landing gear engineer, I was lucky enough to stay in Long Beach in 1996 to work on initial projects for the MD-XX, by the very moment of the merger with Boeing. I worked at Carson street buildings. I could see this sign every day commuting from the Marriott hotel Long Beach to Douglas. I worked with Willy Bohringer, Dan Gargas, Anabelle Sandan...
Although the DC-3 is right up there, greatest contribution was probably the DC-8. There’s a story of how the DC-8 offered an advantage over the 707, because the DC-8 had 6-abreast seating, the Boeing only had 5. Pan Am, who was a major launch customer for both types, asked Boeing to widen the 707, otherwise they would flock to buy DC-8s. If that was the case, all the other airlines would be knocking on Douglas’ door. Boeing did widen the 707, producing the 707-320 Intercontinental and the rest is history. Boeing dominated and dominated and dominated until Airbus came along. So you could say the DC-8 made a substantial unknown contribution to the duopoly we see today.
I trust the DC6 is the game changer!...
Finnair and Douglas were like bread and butter: DC-3 was beautiful plane which still even today flies over Helsinki in nice summer days to remind us from early days of commercial air travel. DC-8 opened route between Helsinki and New York. DC-10-30 as ER-conversion flying from Helsinki to Tokyo was at time in the early days of the eighties first Non-Stop service between Europe and Asia with flight time of 15 hours over North Pole also the longest. DC-9-15 which we called "tumppi-ysi" (cigarette stump-niner) was a marvelous plane. It was like fighter jet with engines for larger variant and when flying short domestic routes with light loads, it truly had some vertical speed. And then there was MD-11, the plane that in the end I believe had only handful of true friends in Airlines like who really understood how great plane it actually and really was when not giving too much attention to operation economics (fuel burn and maintenance of extra engine). Many pilots at Finnair considered it as the best commercial plane in the world. It was like downgrade when A340-300 came to replace it before A350-900 could arrive to fleet.
And things could have ended with completely different path: When need for long range plane came as to avoid Soviets high air tariff and requirement for stopover, Finnair actually was looking in the seventies towards to 747SP. Boeing was very keen to sell the type but not just that but complete fleet. From future plans, 757-200 was plane that really interested Finnair, but 737 didn't. 747SP was quickly forgot when guys from Douglas offered to add extra tanks to DC-10-30 to make it fly the route as needed.
Yeah, as a MD11 (sim) pilot I can confirm that this was very automatic and futuristic plane, especially when you see when MD11 was build. I agree that the fuel economic is no the best, it's good but compare to GE90 it's not that economic. For finall words, for me, the MD11 was a great airplane, just overrated. Intresting think is that most of airlines that bought MD11 became addicted to it for a long time, that says a lot about this plane❤️👍.
The MD 11 And The DC10 Are My Favorite Aircraft!
L1011 is was way better
Anyone else just randomly love the nose of the the DC-10?
Oh yes I love it
@@justkiddin5408 Love it.
Love watching all your long haul videos, they are so captivating and insightful!♥️
There's a joke that I first heard regarding an automotive merger, but which also fits for MDD.
"How do you pronounce McDonnell-Douglas? The 'Douglas' is silent."
Notice that after the merger, they never developed a new commercial airplane ever again. The DC-9 and DC-10 were designed before the merger, after which they just continued to stretch and update them until the end. I'm lead to understand that most of the MDD management came from the McDonnell side, and they brought with them an aversion to risk which comes from those sweet sweet cost-plus government contracts. Like Lockheed, they weren't used to spending billions on designing an airplane and then selling it on the market. They were used to selling an airplane, having a take-it-to-the-bank contract, and then getting started on making airplanes. They walked into that merger with a huge pile of F-4 money, and promise of massive F-15 money that no one in Earth was going to compete with them for. Douglas had spent a ton making the DC-10, trying to beat Lockheed and Boeing, and coming out of the merger it was time to split that market 3 ways and fingers crossed that enough pie came in. Well the pie mostly went to Boeing, and that taught the McAir people that this free market commercial stuff is for squares. So they decided to play it cheap and phone it in, developing no new airframes even as the fresh new 757, 767, 777, and all of Airbus sprang up around them. By some accounts they took the cheapskate strategy all the way to the 737 Max (after ANOTHER merger saw the conservative McDonnell people take the top floors and big desks). If it weren't for the 787, I would truly call those people a cursed plague.
Bonus points for anyone who knows which car company the joke was originally about.
Is the original joke about Chrysler and Daimlerbenz by any chance?
@@tiramisu7544 Nailed it.
I knew it. I don’t know a thing about cars but I knew that Chrysler and Daimler Benz had a very messy merger around the same time as McDonnell Douglas and Boeing.
The DC-3 has always been my favorite aircraft. Still hoping to one day own one.
You can fly one on Microsoft Flight Simulator. The new iteration of the sim game is absolutely stunning.
I've watched to 1:35 and you skipped over probably one of the most crucial planes, That being the Douglas (SBD) Dauntless
The DC9s are my absolute favorite family of planes ever built,so thank you so so much McDonnell Douglas for gives us a timeless beautiful aircraft and your legacy lives on in the 717s/MD95s 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙
No mention of the failures of the DC-10 which led to 100's of deaths..
The culture of McDonnell Douglas was profit-driven with less attention to passengers safety. That culture was transferred to Boeing when the two companies merged and eventually led to the failures of the 737 max program.
That is total BS.
I've worked for them all Boeing, northrup,lockheed martin,raytheon,mcdonnell Douglas was far and away the best company I ever worked for and made the best acft hands down
Too bad the DC-10 had such an awful safety record that even the updated MD-11 with name change couldn't save the company. Personally I preferred the L-1011 ...
you know the Dc 10 30 had a very good Safety Record. you know the 737 max has had more accdents per hour flowen. you know the 737 max is still grounded in china
The MD-11 had problems of its own. They failed to meet their range and fuel efficiency targets, which was a big problem because several carriers were planning on pushing the range to its maximum. It also had some unique safety issues, mostly related to the undersized horizontal stab and reduced static stability (both to try and hit that fuel burn target). In some conditions, accidentally bumping the flap/slat handle could take that stability margin away completely, causing some uncontrolled pitch movements that actually resulted in fatalities in flight from people being thrown around. The low elevator authority also gave the MD-11 the highest landing speed of any contemporary airliner, coming over the fence at like 170. That was compounded by a less than ideal landing gear configuration and structure which made the plane prone to bounces on landing, and prone to breaking a wing clean off if the bounce was not handled exactly right.
I personally love the MD-11, it's one of my favorite airliners ever, but objectively it just wasn't there with the competition.
The DC-10's safety record was due to non - manufacturer fault. The Cargo door on the DC-10 in Paris was found to not be closed/locked correctly. Redundancy in cockpit warning systems with a latch design change cured that in addition to training ground crew on close and lock procedures. Remember Boeing 747 over Hawaii had the same problem ... fortunate for the 747 pilots were able to fly her back to Honolulu with a huge hole in the fuselage. 2nd poor situation for DC-10 was Chicago. The engine fell off on take off. Later to be found an airline maintenance fault in engine change out procedures. 3rd was Sioux City, Iowa. That was an engine turbo fan blade that came loose severing hydraulics. Engine manufacturer. The pilot of that aircraft survived along with many passengers. Unfortunately on final approach lost lift and experienced a fatal landing for some. Every aircraft model flying has experienced some fatalities. So, I don't believe its fair to blame a safety record. If that were the case, there would be no record that wasn't the size of a phone book for automobiles!
Douglas' biggest contribution was absolutely without a shadow of a doubt the DC-3. It served not just as a passenger hauler but also was one of many important planes during world war II. Its military variant, the C-47 played a vital role in the D-day raids.
And nowadays? Those same planes are still in the air. Some have even been upgraded from their P&W R1830 radial engines to turboprops by a company named Basler and still fly regular cargo and wildfire fighting services.
it seems like ever since the 2 companies merged boeing became a big mess, the whole fiasco with the 737 max and now production issues with the 787, i used to be a boeing fan mainly because of the 747, 727, early variants of the 737, 707, you know what i mean, the older boeing jets but i’m now more of a Airbus fan because they care about safety and not money
MD-11 KLM at Schiphol were like sunshine in the morning, lovely🥰
Award given for sneakiest mid video ad insertion
I'm got a thing for McDD jets at the moment, perfect timing.
Fun fact: since McDonnell Douglas and Boeing merged, Boeing’s logo changed. You can see a similarity between the McDonnell Douglas and the Boeing logo.
I miss seeing those long, thin, narrow jets. They were always my favorite to watch take off and land
The DC_3 still is my favorite plane and its nostalgic to see some still flying today
Man the DC-8 & the DC-10 is my favourite…
Thank you very much for telling this part of aviation history! :-)
My dad is a retiree from Mc. Donell Mc. Donnell Duglas , Boeing 43 years !
4:00 love the geminijets md-90
MD bought Boeing with Boeing's money.
The F-15
The thrust to weight ratio is just insane.
Also an f-15 landed after pretty much lousing a entire wing in an air to air collision
As McDonnell Douglas their greatest achievement is probably the F-15 Eagle
Not many countries own or flown the F15 ....The most one pilot or two? only enjoy....
The DC6 is operated through out the world from passenger travel to cargo carriers. It have a long life and still soldier On. I trust it is a niche more useful than the DC3.
I think DC - 3 is the had one of the biggest influences in aviation history, But MD - 11 design is the best !
Manufacturing aside, I think boeing - MD merger still affect poorly until today. Some exec that brought to boeing may be a reason for boeing's crisis today.
The DC-9 was a great contribution. Also the sas nine. SAS.
Due to the merger Of MacDonald Douglas Boeing came to the max saga and I hate MacDonald Douglas as a commercial aircraft company
And the 787 design issues.
I think it's too difficult to say which one is better than others really because they all have their place and they have all helped to make aviation and fast travel what it is today.
I think that McDonnell Douglas's greatest contribution will remain the production of two formidable military jets, the F-15 Eagle & the F-4 Phantom.
I love Long haul by simple flying ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
The rot and downgrading of Boeing began with the integrated of McDonnell Douglas senior management.
Boeing was once a world leading engineering corporation that suffered by idiots with MBA's from MD being foistered upon them.
Bean counters overrode decisions by engineers, experienced quality control staff left in disgust after safety recommendations were ignored.
This was evidenced in Congressional investigations as a result of the 737 MAX debacle.
The quality control at the South Carolina 787 production facility was found to have serious deficiencies.
Fuselage gaps exceeding tolerances, poor surface treatment of internal fuselage barrell sections, forward pressure bulkhead and door frame issues are just a few!
The FAA was correct in cancelling Boeing's delivery certification as well as grounding the 737 Max pending redesign of critical flight control systems.
Many a business school graduate have written dissertations on the poor business practices at Boeing.
Strangely enough their total business culture slowly changed after the MD merger for the worse. The bean-counters and their shortcuts have cost Boeing tens of billions in profit and many more billions in lost orders - not to mention their reputation.
7:13 did they all go to the same logo guy?
my dad worked here he designed planes he worked mechanically his mind attentive to details .. he enended up the night shift due to lack of skills dealing with people ....boeing took over he still worked for decades under boing he told me some things .. he really told me many things in many years but during his his life he definitely was not close to people he disappeared two years ago after getting mad about something i havent heard from him in two years ...my sistersaid he talked once to her last year said he cant walk his talking is going now all his family hasnt seen or heard from him in a year ...but oh he told me he was the only one who was working on the saftey of the airplanes who knew how to solve and he at 82 was still hand on then over the next years eventually pushed out so he knew tge other guys he trued to train were worthless they were nit understanding the seriousness he knew he said secrets it was scarey oh he gave me heads up many decades ago shared small things so not surprised of any of this
Beautiful story of the 2 companies.
I do wish that the MD11 had found more success in the passenger variant market. Boeing sort of "ruined" commercial aviation when it comes to trijets. The 777 was a triumph to be sure, but it rendered MD11, DC10 and L1011 obsolete due to their less efficient trijet configuration. At least while plane-spotting we can still see many freighter variants. Another great video by LONG HAUL by Simple Flying. Keep up the top notch work!
I would put the blame on ETOPS rather than the 777, as all Boeing did was take advantage of the lessened restrictions on 2 engined aircraft operations.
Doesn't really matter that you liked Tri jets. It was always stop gap towards twins. Tri was just a stop gap measure until the engine technology evolved. The 777 was hardly the first. The A300 and 767 came well before. Not only the engine power and efficiency, an engine sitting on top of the plane greatly reduces aerodynamic efficiency of an airplane.
I often wonder what would happen to McDonnell Douglas if DC-10 was redesigned as twin-engine plane with new tail, engines, and perhaps wings. That would allow the company to compete with Boeing 777 and Airbus A330 more effectively instead of upgrading DC-10 to MD-11...
It doesn’t work that way. It required an entirely new program. They didn’t have the cash or risk appetite to go all in on a new program
MD was a Legend. F4, F15, F18 ... ❤
Don't forget about the C-17, plane is doing very well.
the C-17 had development issues and had to have the wing redesigned after failing the load test of the wing. Most folks would prefer to remember the good but all companies (Boeing included) like to gloss over the failures.
Md 11 and dc 9 and md 90 is my fave plane of Mcdonell Douglas
Why are you everywhere where I go?!
McDonnell ruined Douglas which subsequently is ruining Boeing...
nice one
The MD-95 is not a shortened variant of the MD-90.
But they indeed planned shorter and longer variants of the MD-90. The MD-90-10 and MD-90-50.
Also for the 717 there were studies for a 717-100 and 717-300. Not building the stretched 717-300 was a big mistake by Boeing IMO.
Hey long haul. Thanks for switching back to long haul from takeoff. It's much better. However is it possible to get the previous long haul logo back it looks so much better than the previous. The back and white one is what I'm talking about. It works so much better with the name and the previous dark colour sets of the previous videos sigh as the air force one video
Vast employment opportunities for technical and non-technical people, degreed or otherwise, providing a step-up open door for many.
By numbers, I would say the beautiful DC-10 was the most prominent contribution especially in the latter 20th century.
7:25, that's my cousin Luci.
The F-4 Phantom was / is a Great plane.
the history of british aviation would be a cool topic
More to current commercial aviation would be British aviation master plan/policies from 1943 onwards, The broad based plans ranging from-commuter/regionals to intl long haul routes and a/c specs was very impressive.
Am I crazy that I just found out that my grandpa’s relatives made those planes. Their last names are McDonnell
The VERY best product of Mcconnell Douglas is the 45+ yr old F15 program!
Interesting video, apologies for the negative comment, but I couldn't avoid being concerned about what you're promising by using a VPN. Please do some deeper research on the matter, once you're advertising it you're being responsible for it.
The paper noise for the notes is one of the most annoying things i have heard
I think MD's greatest contribution was the mercury & Gemini space capsules engineering
hands down...
*the legendary "Mad Dog" MD-80.*
Call Ryanair. See if O'leary will give you a 20 min Skype interview LOL he is a hilarious guy
Fun fact: MD actually bought Boeing, and convinced Boeing to pay for it.
What would it be if Toyota buys Fokker?
Probably if Toyota buys Fokker, it end up with Fokker having Qantas as their number one customer of Fokker.
All this ends up with Boeing being in third place as Airbus took 2nd place and Fokker being owned by Toyota be in 1st place so what end up with Qantas from Australia having a 100% Fokker fleet because it makes Toyota Fokker’s parent company, might put Boeing out of business.
McDonnell Douglas Should Need DC10 Max But Have Water Emergency Cargo fire,Fixing Button,Hydrolic Saved Button
F15 - the BEST fighter
DC3 - the BEST airliner/cargo aircraft
F4 PhantomII is great and.. still alive
... and YF23 , A12 - first 6 gen planes :)
It never really fell. It became Boeing, that was the time Boeing stopped being an engineer run company.
MDs biggest contribution is probably the F15 and F18 Super Hornet fighters. Decades after their introduction they are still vital parts of our defense and that of our allies. Variants of both are still being produced while production of the F22 has already ended. Go figure.
Wow!
They almost made an American A380!😮
The legend companies that change the world
I love the MD airplanes ✈️
So far as commercial jets were concerned, they probably only had one really successful model - the DC9 and it's successors, which ended up dominating a certain sector of the market. Failing to adequately develop, and then leaving it, possibly because the larger versions competed with the 737 cash cow, appears to be yet another big mistake - one, if Airbus develops the dash 500 version of the A220 can avoid.
Perhaps Boeing was off trying to merge with Lockheed Martin ?
5:19 to skip paid promotion
The DC-3 was the best and safest plane they built. Didn’t hear much about the DC-10 ?
The former CEO of Boeing, P. Condit had made the biggest mistake of his life and his career in Boeing. He ruined everything
McDonnell Douglas had a shot at survival if they gave the MD-11 a clean-sheet wing, more powerful engines, refined its flight controls and stretched that plane and its payload into 747 territory. Instead it was the bean-counters, squirrely LSAS software on the MD-11, its executives that ran the company (and literally some of its planes) into the ground.
The merger was the beginning of the slow fall for Boeing.
Douglas and Boeing were rivals since the 30s. The nail in MDAs coffin came at one instance in the 90s. MDA proposed a military version of the DC10 that likely would have saved it from bankruptcy. At the same time Boeing submitted a proposal for the militarized 747 BUT the written Boeing proposal was completely BLANK, ie, it didn't have any plan. Page after page of Boeing's proposal were BLANK I believed MDA would figure that out To my dismay MDA fell for Boeing's fraudulent "proposal" and dropped out of the competition. "Paper airplanes" are always better and cheaper than ones you really have to build. All I could do was sit back quietly and wait for MDA to close up shop. Five years later MDA did close and was taken over by Boeing. Boeing then officially and very spitefully renamed MDA "McDonnell Aircraft Corporation a Wholely Owned Subsidiary of the Boeing Aircraft Corporation." Too bad.MDA had been the only company I didn't have to kick in the ass to get them to do things right. On the other hand, I once had to tell a Boeing chief engineer to say out loud in his car on his way home what he had said to me then and NEVER say it again. He had said to me regarding a system 'why do we have to build it right? We're ((the US) are never really going to use it anyway.' Later Boeing moved its headquarters from Seattle to Chicago which shed much of it's obligations to its employees who could not afford and did not desire to relocate.
My grandfather worked for McDonald douglas
I wish Boeing brings back tri-jets like the beautiful DC 10 😢❤
DC 3 build in 1935 is still si service.
The Mercury capsule, a pioneering man-in-space project.
the greatest contribution was spraying airports and feilds with engine parts and cargo doors
Love MD 80/90
The Boeing-MD merger is the worst thing that happened to Boeing. Now, Boeing is MD on steroids.
Funny how you didn't mention the DC-10's bad reputation. When pepple with foreign accents narrate videos about american companies, I have to wonder how much do they really know about these companies ? Most times, you can tell by the content, that they didn't do in-depth research before posting things. Someone born in the United States, who is familiar with these companies, should do the narration.
So boing is long ago gone.boing is replace with all MD features Evan logo. What a talent.
Boeing merging with McDonnell Douglas is one of the biggest mistakes ever made in aviation history.
Douglas merging with McDonnell was also one of the biggest mistakes ever made in aviation industry. Two commercial giants are now ruined
Do the rise and fall lockheed next
lockheed still doing good today
Stonecipher was *HATED* at Boeing.