PRONTO! SBINALLA! Opinions on Why Sebastian Vettel Never Won with Ferrari
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- A German. In a Ferrari. Nostalgia intensifies.
After a rubbish 2014, Sebastian Vettel went to Ferrari to try and emulate his hero. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. It just ended up not being the fairytale that he wanted.
So then... How did it all go wrong? Let's look at how the seasons unfolded where he could have dented Lewis Hamilton's numbers in the record books, and what was also going on behind the scenes.
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Now with added stats! Sorry about that. Having one of those days. Also he won at Singapore in 19. Rip.
We all have em, there's just no video archive. I made a video of it snowing today.
I was thinking the same. Germany 2018 was a big kick in the teeth.
Ferrari burned through three world champions (edit: post-Schumacher), one of whom was the last driver to win the title with them. They're now in their second longest title slump for drivers and are on the cusp of making a new record slump on the constructors side. This isn't just a failure to capitalize on having a driver like Seb (or Fernando, or Kimi), this is an internal culture issue that still hasn't been overcome, despite all of the management changes.
More than 3. Vettel, Alonso, Mansel, Prost, Raikonnen (2014).
@@eternal_trashero mansel and prost came before schumacher. The 3 hes talking about are the people who were post schumacher
2014? Wtf @@eternal_trashero
@@ALPHABYTE64 Raikonnen won with Ferrari in 2007 but that 2014 car just didn't do him good.
@@eternal_trashero 2014 Car was trash, but Raikonen was destroyed by Alonso
I think it went wrong, because Seb overestimated Schumi’s influence (which was massive, don’t get me wrong) and underestimated Todt and Brawn’s influence in the title years. He thought a driver alone could make the difference. Schumi had Todt when he arrived at Ferrari. Seb really had no one.
That and the final blow being Marchionne's death ended the support he had
This. Jean Todt and Ross Brawn led the team well, and they fought hard to keep Luca diM from causing too many problems. Sen also did not seem to have the same confidence Michael did. There were lots of moments throughout his career where he got rattled and his race craft would not be reflective of a 4 time WDC. Theres no way you can be that way and survive at Ferrari. I think despite less results, Kimi did seem to weather it better because of his attitude. When Seb started getting real heavy into environmental issues, I gave up on him, his heart wasn’t in it anymore.
@@fuller9xI agree this death doesn’t get talked about enough
The politics shifted completely at Ferrari after this
In another reality Seb would have demanded that Newey and Horner were to be signed with him. Maybe then Seb would have achieved his dream.
I believe that getting rid of Arrivabene was very detrimental to the drivers. He was a business guy, but very keen to separate the racing from the politics, and they undermined him out of the door.
We can't forget that Vettel was persuaded to make the switch to Ferrari by a team structure that was thrown in the dumpster before he even got there, as many other people have pointed out in videos of the past. Vettel thought he was getting one package, and then landed in the middle of another. The fact that he was as successful as he became with that in mind is honestly pretty good.
Seb won the 2019 Singapore race, but other that you were on point!!
I was at Hockenheim in 2018 as a Vettel fan… In my opinion he wasn’t the same after that specific race. I think it took a hefty toll on his mental and the rest of unfortunate happenings in 18 and then 19 ensured he never got that swagger back. Until he left at least. By the end of 18 he must have been so endlessly disappointed by Ferraris antics, and as a harsch competitor probably also blaming himself for the few mistakes he had to account for.
I’m really looking ahead to seeing seb in wec next year. One can dream of Alo Ver vs Seb Ham.
And also I think it’s quite funny (as well as sad) that Leclerc is experiencing the very same Ferrari-Experience that Vettel had gotten. He probably was confused at Sebs performance in the end. Now he understands very well lol.
The crash of Hockenheim was in 2018.
My mistake
Vettel needed guided like a child otherwise he would scream on the radio like a child and spin his car. Without the guidance of an adult Vettel began to campaign against oil even though he was sponsored by an oil company.
He never properly recovered from Japan 18 tbh.
unlike say Verstappen?@@therealquaid1694
I remember Rocky, his race engineer at Red Bull coaching him and guiding him through everything he needed to do. That kept him focused on driving. With the incompetent fools on the Ferrari pitwall doing their worst, Seb could no longer focus on what he did best and the mistakes crept in. Germany 2017 destroyed what confidence was left in him.
2018* but true
@@hamdanali2036 I meant 2018 yes. Thanks!
Vettel couldn’t handle the pressure of a genuine title fight. 2010 he won when no one expected him to win, 2011 and 2013 red bull were unbeatable and he dominated 2012 after the return to 2011 tyres. When he had the title pressure he crumbled as much as the team did, sure the team could’ve done better, but vettel’s mistakes were just as bad.
Vettel needed guided like a child otherwise he would scream on the radio like a child and spin his car. Without the guidance of an adult Vettel began to campaign against oil even though he was sponsored by an oil company.
Hamilton and Mercedes get a lot of grief for the dominant years (especially post Rosberg). Many overlook the fact that Vettel had a competitive car in some of those seasons, but made unforced errors that made life much easier for Hamilton (and Mercedes).
Many people saying the problem is solely on Vettel, never looking at the bigger problem in the scuderia Ferrari themselves
hmmmm you could only really say Vet 'shouldve' won in 2017
All anyone really needs to do is look at how many years Ferrari has failed to win even with a competitive car and a World Champion/potential champion driver to see that Vettel was far from the problem. Yes he made mistakes, but if Ferrari had been putting the amount of effort Seb was into winning, I don’t think Hamilton would be a 7 time Champ, sorry not sorry.
@@CClaudio21they went as far as to run an illegal engine to help Seb and he still couldn’t get the job done. Take off the rose tinted glasses and realise that Seb bottled big time when he got close.
@@rhyswheeler858 I would agree if at least Ferrari still win a title post 2008. However, they hasn't
So the problem either lies in Ferrari never hired a good driver to carry them since then, or Ferrari as a team is messed up
I mean, it's easy to just blame the Ferrari driver when you ignore the bigger problem in the organization themselves
Ferrari took a break from being themselves when Brawn,Todt and Shumacher were in. After they all left, they went back to being what they were in the 2 decades or so before this era.
On the spinning, I think I remember Brundle saying that Vettel was the best at counterintuitively adding power mid corner to charge the blown diffuser and increase rear grip during his championship years. Could that muscle memory during his early F1 years have contributed to his later heavy right foot?
Nah it's not that. Vettel said it was because of "downforce holes" whatever that is. Guys a moron.
His driving style was always rear-sensitive, it was a case of the stars aligning with the way that blown-diffuser car behaved. Plus I think he had a knack with cold tires at the start. Without the blown diffusers and with a car that now behaves differently, we saw how he fared against Ricciardo (another driver who I like but who also seems to be very setup-sensitive)
The main thing lacking in seb's ferrari stint was the three-legged stool. You need a driver, team principle, and technical director all working in harmony with each other. That just simply was not there.
Martin Brundle is 64 today.
His career behind the wheel & in the coms box needs a video
The ground zero was that one mistake at Hockenheim. His mentality was never the same until 2022 where we got a glimpse of who he was before. He went from the fiery annual challenger to Lewis Hamilton bar 2016 to beaten down with Grand Prix riddled with mistakes. Ferrari definitely did not have the same support system Red Bull did, and he suffered for it, as he clearly couldn't pull himself out of that funk until he announced his retirement. I often wonder if retirement being on the horizon gave him a brevity of sorts because he was embroiled in the best battles in 2022, easily. One note I want to say is that he won his final race in 2019 in Singapore.
You could see the mans mentality completely change immediately when he exited the car. He was fully self defeated at that moment. Complete mental collapse internally.
@@TANGYHATCHY Man, I couldn't imagine having to be your own strategist IRL in a Grand Prix. F1 teams these days are built on everyone at the races having one or two jobs MAX. The driver is just supposed to drive, I couldn't imagine having to be his own shot caller and strategist on top of it. Mentally taxing for sure.
Vettel needed guided like a child otherwise he would scream on the radio like a child and spin his car. Without the guidance of an adult Vettel began to campaign against oil even though he was sponsored by an oil company.
While it's easy to be overdramatic about these things, I don't think there's any question that losing the 'Fight For Five' knocked a lot of stuffing out of Vettel. Unlike the year before, Ferrari were strong enough across the season to see that championship through. Vettel's mistake while leading at Hockenheim turned the tide and from there, barring Spa, his form went through the floor to the point that even post-prime meme years Raikkonen was suddenly better.
The idea of Ferrari being a competent and well-run organization is kind of a myth. The only part of the modern era where that was the case was the 10 or so years that Schumacher, Todt, Brawn et al were there. Even looking at years where they were in title contention (going back as far as 1982) they always seemed to find a way to fuck things up or, in the case of 1990 it was only the talent of one driver that managed to keep them in the title race.
Basically, the Italian team was at its best when they got rid of the Italians.
@@JohnSmithShields My wife is Italian so I have to be careful what I say here, but it's no coincidence that Italian politics is a perpetual shit show
We have to add in at least a dash of the Itallian press meddling as a contribution.
In 90s and 2000s but look at Italian Goverment, just xd
@@senorsoupepolitics is shit show everywhere
2015 was an amazing season where Vettel easily destroyed his teammate and basically did what Ricciardo did in 2014, being the only non-Merc winner with 3 wins - probably one of Vettel's best ever seasons. 2016 was a bit back down to earth as Kimi matched him in qualifying and was generally closer to him that season, and Vettel nearly lost to an 18-year-old who did the first 4 races in a Toro Rosso. 2017 was a return to form, and despite what Hamilton fans say, Vettel did NOT bottle the 2017 title, he did very well to lead the championship as long as he did and it was mainly reliability and Mercedes getting stronger in the second half that did it.
2018 onwards for me was the beginning of Vettel's downfall and why I don't rate him quite as highly as other multiple WDCs. IMO 2018 was the title that he bottled, as he made mistakes in Baku, France, Germany, Monza, Suzuka and COTA which lost him a lot of points to Hamilton, who probably had his best ever season that year. And then Leclerc who was new to Ferrari, immediately matching him and winning more races and scoring more points in 2019, and 2020, although perhaps could have been caused by Vettel having a lack of motivation following the news of him leaving before the start of the season, it was a very poor season and Leclerc was far better than him. And I felt he didn't beat Stroll as convincingly as I thought he would in 2021, although I felt he had a better 2022.
To me, 2014 and 2018-21 are seasons where I would have expected a 4xWDC to have performed better. I just felt that he made too many mistakes particularly at Ferrari, but I would say had he been at his absolute best, Ferrari only gave him one opportunity to fight for the title, and haven't been on the ball for the most part of 15 years now. The same will probably happen to Leclerc.
He cracked a few times in 2017 (Baku and Singapore), but that was nowhere near the level that Ferrari went to bottle their best title charge in years (those three Asian races were a disaster-class).
I'd also agree that Lewis' best year was 2018, that Ferrari (when they weren't adding upgrades that slowed it down) was the real deal, especially in the first half of the season, despite some people now thinking that Mercedes was quicker by a mile throughout 2018.
100% agree about 2017
@@XiphactinusSingapore was completely on Seb. Cutting across like that without being fully sure of where everyone is behind you is always a no go. Suzuka was an equally big bottle job from Seb too. He believed everyone would move out of his way because he drove a Ferrari and was wrong. He wasted two prime opportunities and resorted to beating Lance Stroll to gain some sort of confidence back.
@@rhyswheeler858 I said he cracked at Singapore in 2017 though.
When I mentioned the Asian races, I meant Singapore (his fault), Malaysia (issue meant he started from the back when the Ferrari had the pace to win), and Japan (engine blew up, and Hamilton won that race) 2017.
I also agree that Japan 2018 was his fault, so there was some level of misunderstanding present in your comment.
@@Xiphactinus I couldn’t 100% remember if Suzuka was the same year as Singapore, that was why I mentioned them both. Singapore was a mistake I’d expect Lance Stroll or Logan Sargent to make, not a four time world champion.
The Monza 2019 'sBinnala' incident is more the 'He Came Back On the Circuit Like an Idiot' incident
That Mercedes car was a behemoth. Hamilton was crazy consistent, and Ferrari had constant in-fighting, issues with strategy.. Seb was doomed to fail, but he really tried his best. Mistakes are always there in the best drivers. Senna at Monaco, Hamilton at Baku ‘21.. and so on.
Vettel made an unacceptable amount of mistakes
@@ciarankelmanhe definitely did, just like Leclerc did in 2022. There’s a lot of rose tinted takes in this comment section forgetting that vettel bottled the title two years in a row due to his own errors.
@@rhyswheeler858 2018 yes. 2017 is more to reliablity issue post-singapore (Vettel hasn't making mistake all that much in that year)
@@rhyswheeler858Leclerc made TWO (2) errors in 2022, which cost him a total of 25 points.
@@barcafan94and Ferrari's antics cost him at least 40 more
The huge difference between Schumacher and Vettel at Ferrari is that Schumacher had the non-Italian Ferrari support of team principal Todt, technical director Brawn (from Benneton), and designer Bryne (from Benneton). Ferrari was built around Schumacher both technically and management, that didn't happen with Vettel.
Ferrari's strategy call which he always doubted, Competing against a superior Mercedes machine, Crew mistakes and to take all roles in his shoulder was too much for him to handle and he was not completely focusing on his driving
The problem was definitely much more on the team side for Seb. Constant turmoil. Fingers crossed Fred settles things down and Charles and Carlos. Very hard to win consistently for Seb, possibly also didn't have the design team as focused as at Red Bull.
To me when I speak of Vettel I state 2 parts. The 1st part of his career was this young, hungry, talented driver who was a go-getter, but starting in 2014, part2, he fell victim to his own success when he stopped having the best car (not saying his success was all about the cars he drove (newey the goat)) Vettel therefore needed to dig deeper than he had before to compete for wins, but somewhere along the way he got used to having very little struggle and when he was faced with adversity he unfortunately succumbed to it.
Spoken by someone who doesn't know anything about Vettel.
Vettel ever since he's been in the sport, has always been a very commitful worker. James Allison in 2015 when Seb joined Ferrari stated that the only driver that he has seen with the same work ethic as Vettel was Schumacher.
The problem was him as well, he in 2018 and 2019 did more unforced errors in those two seasons than in his entire previous seasons combined. But the PACKAGE that is the TEAM, CAR, MANAGEMENT, STRATEGY, PITSTOPS was never better than Mercedes. In 2018, he should've had a lot more points, but he would've never beaten Hamilton... In that same year you saw Mercedes giving up TWO wins from Bottas to give it to Hamilton (Germany and Russia), meanwhile in that same year, Ferrari allows Kimi to FIGHT Vettel and constantly made blunders when switching their cars, in fact, this happened in Germany 2018 and was most prominently shown in Monza. Why did Ferrari put Seb at the front of the field IN QUALYING when he was the one fighting for the championship and therefore would be the one to get a tow from Kimi to get pole and thus an easier job at winning the race and thus the championship battle?
For me it wasn't Germany 2018... That was probably Vettel's least blamable mistake, he had DRY tyres on a DAMP track and also had front wing damage, it was a small mistake (going off-track) that was just done in the worst part of the track at the worst time.
It was MONZA 2018 where everything started to fell appart.
And then let's also mention JAPAN 2018. Where they PUT VETTEL ON INTERS on a DRY TRACK for qualifying while they give Kimi softs, and Mercedes also used softs to set a lap on the 1st run of Q3. What happened? Seb with inters would never be able to put a time against Soft slick tyres on a dry track, and by the time he came into the pits to put slicks... It started to rain, and he was now with slick tyres on a damp track and because of that got a horrible qualifying result.
Oh, want another Ferrari blunder in 2018? Austria... Where he had a grid penalty for blocking Sainz, and who do you think is responsible to warn the drivers that there's one coming from behind on a fast lap? The team... And they failed that. On a weekend where he could've won with the Mercs suffering heating problems and had to settle for 3rd behind Kimi and Max who started way ahead of him in the grid.
Singapore 2018... again, Ferrari with an INSANE, or rather at this point it's common for them, strategy that made Vettel go from 2nd and fighting Hamilton for the lead after the 1st stint... to make him finish 3rd ... 40 seconds behind Hamilton and behind Max in 2nd.
He sure did mistakes in 2018, but the team was equally at fault. They kept making blunders that put too much pressure on him.
That crash at Hockenheim was inexplicable and sealed it for me that Seb was washed.
Seb was top class! In 2018 he only made one big mistake but we all know that we still would have lost the title even without that. In 2017 it all went down to Singapore where no one was to blame. It wasn't meant to be. The competition was just better and especially more reliable.
Yeah and Seb was battling the prime Lewis back in 2017-18. The whole Merc operation was 100% behind him as well.
It wasn't some much Hockenheim to blame, it was many, many skirmishes and spins that derailed his 2018 campaign. France, Baku, Austria, Monza, Japan, COTA... you can't win a championship like that
I know this is motorbike racing but a video you should totally do is the 2023 AMA Supercross season considering how the two main contenders were taken out of the championship agonizingly close
It went wrong for Seb as soon as he signed on the dotted line 😂
Vettel should've won in 2016 at both Australia and Canada but Ferrari bottled the strategy. He would've won Spain if he had the same strategy as Raikkonen had that race. Austria was a podium lost due to tyre failure.
Singapore - Data and simulations show he probably could've won if he didn't have the suspension issue in qualifying.
Both Vettel and Raikkonen had 4 DNFs in 2016. Vettel technically 4 DNF's as Bahrain was a DNS.
Despite Raikkonen winning the qualifying battle Vettel was still clearly better in the races more often than not. Seb was the fighting for wins against Mercedes at some races, not Kimi. The points gap was closer than it probably should have been.
Where did it all go wrong for Seb at Ferrari?... I would say Monaco 2014.
News leaked out afterwards that Vettel had a meeting with someone from Ferrari that weekend (one of the people who would later that summer launch a coup & take over the running of Ferrari). As both Vettel & Alonso were under contract at their existing teams for 2015, the news quickly faded away (there were the usual denials, and people assumed they were discussing possibilities for 2016). But I remember being a bit suspicious.
A few races later (around Silverstone?) reports that Vettel had a performance-related exit clause in his RB contract began. If he failed to score enough points by the end of the summer he could terminate his contract for 2015. For me that was the missing piece of the puzzle - Vettel's form had not improved (indeed it had slumped) and I was convinced at the time (& ever since) that Vettel was deliberately under-scoring to be able to activate the exit clause.
By the autumn other pieces fell into place. The coup at Ferrari happened and the name from Monaco popped up as part of the new management. The new team boss played Alonso like a maestro and baited him into quitting in a heated meeting, saving Ferrari the expense (and embarrassment) of repeating what they had done 5 years earlier and paid a fortune (€30m+?) to buy Raikkonen out of his 2010 contract to make room for Alonso.
And after months of denial, RB finally confirmed Vettel's exit clause existed. (Coincidentally, Vettel's form improved significantly after the reported exit deadline passed.)
This is all circumstantial, no smoking gun or confirmation has ever been found (as far as I know). But I'm convinced that at that Monaco meeting Vettel agreed with those plotting the coup to move to Ferrari, and ensure that he would be in position to activate his performance exit clause. It seems highly likely the existing Ferrari team management were unaware of this. There's no knowing who approached who first, but I suspect it was not Vettel who initiated the scheme. For years it has been widely thought that Vettel had some sort of long-term agreement with Ferrari, an expectation that he would go there eventually as Schumacher had done. Seems likely that Ferrari were aware of the general terms of his RB contract, and someone there identified the opportunity for him to make an early exit at a time which fitted their own plans.
That 2014 red bull was garbage and unreliable, so it’s a bit harsh to think Seb did that deliberately. It’s an interesting story though, I think alonso bought too much into the hype around a McLaren Honda car and thought it’d be 1988 all over again and that turned his head, but I could be wrong.
The 2014 Red Bull was also the 2nd fastest car of the season from start to finish, regularly on the podium and the only car to beat the Mercs with 3 wins... but that was of course with Ricciardo driving. Not a bad car at all.
And Renault did a much better job with their PU that year than Ferrari had. The Mercedes PU was far ahead - they were the only maufacturer fully utilising the MGUH and had an ignition system which allowed them to run the engine leaner, saving fuel and thus weight in races. (Merc's advantage that year was not simply more power, they arguably the most aerodynamically efficient chassis and being able to run with lower fuel loads was a huge advantage.) But that RB were comfortably ahead of all the Merc customer teams shows that they must have had a good chassis. As for unreliable - 5 retirements is pretty good, same number as Mercedes.
Riccardo never repeated a season like that again. It was a one off imo@@ibex485
I think ultimately the reason why the Seb/Ferrari combination failed was because the Hamilton/Mercedes combination from 2014 to 2020 was just that good and almost impossible to beat. In 2017 and 2018 It always felt like to me that Vettel and Ferrari had to be at 100% all of the time and never put a foot wrong if they wanted to beat Hamilton/Mercedes but Hamilton/Mercedes were always super fast and super consistent... Like a well oiled machine as you said in the video! So Ferrari politics and Vettel mistakes aside, I think Vettel emulating Schumacher was just never meant to be as long as Hamilton and Mercedes were there.
Also like others have mentioned, Vettel binning it at Hockenheim 2018 was the beginning of the end for Seb. He never felt like the same driver after that to me.
But here comes Vettel at Belgium 2018 was a consolation race win because he already bottled the title in Germany
8:15
Not giving your title contender the best possible opportunity, sounds like ferrari all right 😂
Back in 2014, Vettel surprised the world by signing with Ferrari, which put Alonso in an awkward situation. His only option was to go back to McLaren, who had been massively off the pace and were about to lose their only asset, their Mercedes engines. Alonso would have wanted to stay with Ferrari, but he overplayed his hand. Vettel struggled in 2014 as he couldn't live with the Red Bull's lack of rear downforce. The Ferrari seemingly suited his driving style better and he performed very well in 2015 and 2017. Vettel himself said Monza 2018 was the turning point, when the team favored Räikkönen in qualifying for whatever reason, after which Vettel spun on the opening lap. I think the actual turning point was Hockenheim, where he slid off while leading. At that time, Hamilton was catching him on a damp track, and he could have won the race even if Vettel hadn't made that mistake. Vettel's driving on the damp track was quite poor, though, as he'd ran wide several times before his ultimate mistake. It seems Ferrari immediately lost faith in him, which led to their bizarre actions at Monza, quickly followed by replacing Vettel's ideal number-2 driver by the promising Leclerc. 2019 could have been an epic season for Ferrari, with two fast drivers and an overpowered engine, but it just didn't, as the chassis was poor.
Hello Aidan: Thank you very much for all of these videos. Merry Christmas and very Happy New Year to you and all of your family.
I heard a rumour that some people at Ferrari including Arrivabene actually wanted to fire Seb and keep Kimi alongside Leclerc for 2019 and that Sergio Marchionne never wanted Vettel at and that Marchionne was upset at having a driver in Vettel forced onto to him by Montezemelo who put the wheels in motion for Vettel to Ferrari.
Considering his immature antics in 16 and 17, not surprising. Bro was making a case for himself to get sent to Nascar of all things with his attitude.
there also was a BBC article by Andrew Benson that said Marchionne didn't want Seb in the team
@@HeracrossYTandrew benson is a tosspot
@X2Lazy2WinX I lost a ton of respect for him over the F you Charlie bullcrap, warmed up to him a bit throughout 2017, but then he just had to become a political activist, and totally lost all respect I had for him.
@@X2Lazy2WinXNASCAR fans probably wouldn't have liked him once he started acting immature.
Sebs spins not being a new thing is a good point you highlight that many ignore in favor of dogpilling on Ferrari, which, to be fair, Ferrari earned.
Even at RB, he made those title fights in 2010 and 2012 much harder than they should have been with weird little errors (Turkey 2010, Spa 2010, Malaysia 2012, Monza 2012 if not for the retirement, nearly binning it behind the safety car in Abu Dhabi 2012, etc). Demonically quick but somewhat error prone, he was Hakkinen to Hamilton's Schumacher. And when you sign a guy like that, you live and die by his high speed/errors.
You can blame Seb, but realistically had Ferrari backed him up properly instead of being the mess that they are, he likely would've brought them the title even with those errors. I mean having your championship fighting driver give the tow to his teammate who's clearly not in the fight for the title is the kind of idiocy you only see at Ferrari.
@@mrgalaxy396Vettel needed guided like a child otherwise he would scream on the radio like a child and spin his car. Without the guidance of an adult Vettel began to campaign against oil even though he was sponsored by an oil company.
@mrgalaxy396 ...Also, this Hakkinen and Schumacher comparison is disingenuous imo. Hakkinen did not win double-digit races in a season and almost lost a title to Eddie Irvine of all people. Oh, and let's not forget how short his run at the top really was compared to Vettel who spent 11 years straight top 5 in the title.
In Hakkinen’s defence he was racing with brain damage since his 1995 crash.
The McLaren of that time was also a fragile beast.
Ferrari isn't so much the team where great champions go for the crowning glory of their careers, as the team which brings the careers of great champions to a crushing end. 😞
I remember being on the most miserable vacation during the 2018 Italian GP in Monza. I wanted Kimi to win that race so bad.
Vettel is a fair-weather driver. Always was.
47 out of his 53 wins were from the first row.
The remaining 6 wins were from 3rd on the grid.
He never won a race from 4th or lower on the grid.
And this I'm afraid sets him out from other multiple champions.
This means that when things were going his way and he controlled the race from the front he drove really well.
But if he hit snags and found himself in the middle of traffic...
Thats an absolutely fair and precise analysis of Seb's Ferrari journey. Thumbs up! 👍
Thanks! Great story. I only paid attention to results back then. There weren't all these channels. Peace.
great video.. keep it up.
Ferrari is like Roman society post Caeser, anyone can be the Emperor, but anybody else could be holdng the knife behind your back.
Would love to see a vid on Kimi at Mclaren. He should have got WAY more than what he managed to achieve there owing to the AWFUL reliability of the Mclaren Mercedes partnership at the time.
The Mobile Chicane did a video on him and Mc
J’aime beaucoup votre travail 😊
I think youre right and its a deeper statement than it seems a first. Its a mark of a true champion to know 'when its time'. Almost all dont, or sadly die trying to find out.
multi 21 multi 21 . ferguson was the greatest manager ever. could produce players from the academy, transfer top players and best strategy for the game . The new united managers are the exact opposite.
Remember guys 5k more subscribers until we get that Roberto Moreno story
Oh my sweet summer child… 😏
Bluey purple! ❤ So accurate.
It seemes the Ferrari board after sacking the Schumacher crew thought "We know now how to do this". Every next team principal was subortinate to the board on a short leash. The streetcar division is restricting the race team. In Enzo's days the streetcar division was there solely to provide the money for the scuderia.
100%. People perhaps forget or perhaps don't know the situation of 2005: Jean Todt was not just the Ferrari F1 team principal but also the head of Ferrari itself, under the FIAT group at the time.
Di Montezemolo,who had been the Jean Todt of the Lauda era and had himself brought Todt in with an open book, yet went over Todt's head to sign Raikkonen to replace Massa!
This pushed Schumacher to decide whether to stay with Kimi as teammate or leave to give Massa the chance to continue; so Di Montezemolo undermined Todt and pushed Schumacher out the door.
Initially following back-to-back titles in 07 and 08 for Raikkonen and Massa ,it seemed like the plan had worked with the Raikkonen/Massa/Domenicali approach.
However if we consider this is also the time their designer was selling blueprints to McLaren, their chief race mechanic was sabotaging their cars AND their chief test driver was telling McLaren (or at least, Alonso) secret tyre test data and setups all during 2007; it's very clear Ferrari was destroyed from within at that time.
@@OsellaSquadraCorse
Thanks for learning me new stuff.
@@OsellaSquadraCorseso it’s Di Montezemolo’s fault that Michael chickened out of competing with Kimi in the same car? Interesting take that 🤔
@@rhyswheeler858I mean, Ferrari also paid Kimi 30 million Euros to f*** off so that they can have Alonso. They seem to really not want great driver pairings like Schumacher/Räikkönen and Alonso/Räikkönen.
@@CyanRooper it was Schumacher’s decision to retire and not pair up with Kimi for 2007, Di Montezemolo wanted Schumacher and Kimi as the pairing but Michael chickened out.
Seriously, going there was where it went wrong. I'm always stunned by any driver worth their salt deciding to leave a team (especially a successful one) they know and love.
Barring the Brawn/Todt years, going there hadn't been good for anyone since the '70s, and even that's debatable. Even 2007 was more of a gift to Kimi than Ferrari earning it. (No Kimi fans, I'm _not_ saying that he didn't deserve to ever be a champ. In fact I saw that year as making up for losing it at McLaren. He was good enough. Ferrari weren't. In '07 they were bloody lucky that the "echoes'" of Brawn etc were still there.)
I've never seen Vettel win, and I'm sad about that. I didn’t watch F1 for 10 years or so, and my first race back as a fan was Russia 2019.
I feel ya, I started following after Britain that same year and I had to follow Vettel’s final win through the written live commentary on the F1 app because I couldn’t watch it on my phone yet.
We just need 4500 more soul’s before we get the most important almost man stories. Bobby M at Patrick Racing
Seb generally straggled to keep his cool under pressure (e.g. Canada 2011)...In the RB days it didn't affect him that much since a) he was in the best car and b) perhaps he was in a better mental state...In Ferrari he had to overcome this to put the perfect season together and challenge the monstrous Lewis-Merc combo, but he lost his marbles permanently....
Your flag in the background would make a great-looking car livery (I've no clue what the flag is, however lol).
Black Country flag. The Industrial Revolution and the modern world started here.
Aidan, thanks, solves that. The chain, color combination, and arrangement, are intriguing.
@@trickydicky2908 the chain is because of the chain making industry, (although we made a lot of other stuff, particularly leather in Walsall) and the colours are how the place was described: black by day because of the smoke, and red by night as that’s when the furnaces were turned on.
Leather in Walsall, locks in Willenhall, chains in Dudley (often referred to as the area’s capital), coal in Wolverhampton, enamel works in Bilston, steel in Wednesbury… some of it still happens today.
@Aidan Thanks. I learned something new.
Brings back memories.
Nailed ittt.
It doesn't help that Seb was known to need a rear end that was planted and was racing in cars that from the sounds of things weren't suited to his strengths.
Meanwhile Kimi liked a front end with bite. So maybe it was they were building the cars for Kimi from the start.
Regarding the Canadian GP of 2019, here is my take. Vettel certainly retained a place he would have lost by going off and I believe Lewis had to brake in avoidance, so I agree with the penalty Vettel got, but not when it was issued. It should have been issued during the race itself not applied afterwards
The only way that would’ve worked is if the stewards had given Seb a drive through penalty. The penalty was right call and they didn’t really have much choice in terms of how the penalty was served.
I think people's opinion on this will be based on how much they liked Vettel and how charitable they're willing to be. Did he get downright destroyed by Ricciardo? Was he trying to trigger a performance clause to leave for Ferrari? Is Leclerc just that much better or Marchionne's death ended Vettel's support? Did Stroll really match him or is it simply easier to extract the most out of a bad car than a good one?
Happens with every driver. If you liked him, he was a goat, if you didn't, it was just the car.
Tbf Leclerc seems to get a fair few free passes too. Like you say it depends on whether the person doing it is a fan or not.
Which I think leads to the question of why they're not fans.
As a Ferrari fan of over 30 years this is a painful trip down memory lane. The Ferrari calamities certainly didn’t do Seb any favours but I think he put a lot of pressure on himself. And the more it didn’t work out the more pressure he put on. I always thought Alonso would have done more with the car Seb had and probably been champion.
Alonso would be better than 2018 Vettel, maybe even champion, but that's debatable as Mercedes was the better car in the 2nd half of the season in most tracks and was a well oiled machine with 4 championships on the bounce before that season.
Alonso would however not perform as good as Vettel did in 2017. Vettel making that car fight for the championship as he did was already great enough. And if not for the reliability issues in Malaysia and Japan, he could've actually won the championship with the 2nd best car and package. Kimi on that same car BARELY even beat the two Red Bulls.
Bottas meanwhile on the 2nd Merc finished that 2017 season also with 300+ points. So yeah, that Mercedes had pace, and that pace kept getting better and better as the season progressed, while meanwhile, the Ferrari was stagnant for most of the season, and on any track that didn't had many slow speed corners, it would always get outpaced by the Mercs.
the two away legs after monza in 2017 and 2018 say alot
13:54 there’s no way that’s the photographers real name. OOGA BOOGA BOOGA
This culture of protecting specific drivers that has taken hold in F1 since Schumacher hurts the sport imo. It made it so even the best drivers are out of luck if they didn't happen to be the posterchild of some specific team. It's infuriating, for example, to see Leclerc so ridiculously overprotected in Ferrari while Vettel was and Sainz is left to eat all the shit, even when their performances on track (especially Sainz's) prove over and over that Leclerc is not better than them, he just happens to have his team's favor. The same thing happened with Hamilton v Alonso in 2007, Hamilton v Rosberg in 2014-16, Vettel v Webber in 2009-14...
Right now RB has Verstappen, Ferrari has Leclerc, Mercedes will have Antonelli, McLaren has Lando. If you are not these drivers, then don't even think about joining those teams unless you are literally a marketable, English 7 title winner like Hamilton.
The 2018 ferrari was such a good looking car
If you go to Ferrari because your hero is The Michael, you're going to have to bring the out of car stuff The Michael brought to Ferrari. My less charitable side would point out that having the FIA on side and tyres built specifically for your car helps, too.
When Red Said Preseason they’d Favour Seb and then LeClerc Crashed that Party.
That got me like "What?"
Every one points to 2017 and 2018, but I feel like in 2016 the seeds where put in place
It didn't so much go wrong I just think Vettel's flaws were exposed. Vettel was a great driver no doubt, he deserved to win the WDC, but he wasn't consistently on the same level as Hamilton or Alonso. Vettel is a good example of why stats are of limited use in judging how good a driver is. Vettel & Prost may have very similar basic stats but Prost was on a whole different level.
I think more than anything that Vettel overestimated his own capabilities against Schumacher's. Vettels commitment neither had come close to Schumacher's, nor he had his talent. If everything came together, Vettel could drive very fast indeed, but that doesn't mean that he could bring together by himself what's needed to win when it wasn't there in the first place.
But another aspect is the change of rules in 2014. I don't think that Vettel suddenly lost his speed in 2014, I think that the heavier turbo cars were the problem. As a result he couldn't take advantage of his talent as much as before, he wasn't able to adapt. Therefore he lost against Ricciardo in 2014. In a way similar to Schumacher's problem with the 2010-2012 rules: He had won all his titles when refuelling was allowed and when the tyres could be used heavily. All that was over, it wasn't possible to squeeze the most out of a mediocre car by sheer talent anymore - when you overdrove it, you wouldn't gain. And maybe your (or your parents') former success hinders you to adapt - you instinctly have to stick to what had worked, because you know that on that field you have an advantage.
Schumacher also had better management and technical crew around him (Todt, Brawn, etc)
It's so weird seeing a modern car without a halo. Some of the stills in this video just look off because of it.
Leclerc will get one of these videos aswell
Probably. Depends if I’m still around then
My theory is that Seb was never as good with the new gen v6 hybrids, vs the pre 2014 v8's. The torque characteristics of the hybrids were not to his liking, causing him to spin out through a sucession of unforced errors.
Old seb disappeared in Germany 2018. Winning at home would of been a massive boast for him n championship challengeHe was never the same since
He was never going to win that race, nor win the title no matter what happened
12:20 - *Jean Todt days
As a Vettel fan, it's heartbreaking that the ONLY F1 race I've ever seen live was 2018 Chinese Grand Prix, sitting right at the hairpin after the long straight and seeing Verstappen destroy his car.
Vettel won the 2019 Singapore Grand Prix buddy, it formed 3 in a row for Ferrari
Did you not read the pinned comment bud?
@@AidanMillward no sorry 😂😂😂 I wasn’t trying to be a dick btw I’ve just started watching your content and love it 👌🏻
I think you just solved the problem, every championship I can remember has been won by a team with good political position, mclaren in the late 10s with the dennis/whitmarsh bollocks were an absolute shit show, every time some internal political bullshit happens, that team seem to drop down the grid a bit or all the way
I mean, of course. It's the same thing in any team. A team that has itsmembers cooperating is the best team. Simple as
I'm not debating the 2019 Canadian GP, but Vettel did win the 2019 Singapore GP.
Binotto wanting to run Ferrari is like Adrian newey wanting Christian Horner’s job. No wonder they were nowhere in 2019, binotto should’ve stuck to building cars and arrivebene should’ve kept his job
The dancin 'orses hoped for an MS to drag them up with him, didn't get that...
My feeling is that the perception that Vettel was a god has much to do with Webber and the quality of his RedBull. In a nutshell, the RedBull was dominant, but Webber was not that good. And after partnering with Webber, all downhill for Seb.
The red bull was practically built around what Seb liked, just like it’s being done for max now. Seb had a lack of adaptability that killed him when he moved to Ferrari who gave both drivers an equal car to work with.
Yay!
Didn't Vettel win in Singapore 2019?
Yep
I miss Seb's angry radio messages
Vettel lost the team battle to Daniel.
Nuff said.
Why don't you do a video on Dave Walker
I know it's the only fair comparison but talking about the gap to Kimi is kind of useless since Kimi was just vibing and arguably was mainly there as a seat filler and wasn't expected to do anything
What happened to Seb? Ferrari. Ferrari is what happened to Seb. Same thing that's happening to Charles.
In all fairness, Ferrari didn’t tell Vettel to spin a million times
@@sanfordcurtis8242 there's a reason Ferrari haven't won any titles anymore since Lewis became world champion
@@hectornecromancer5308because Seb bottle 2017 and 2018 with the mistakes he made. Singapore and Suzuka killed his charge due to his errors.
@@rhyswheeler858 so that means Alonso and Leclerc also bottle it in 2010, 2012, and 2022?
So that means Ferrari has a problem in hiring a good driver?
@@hectornecromancer5308 Leclerc did to an extent, remember that he did a Vettel in france in 2022. I don’t think Charles is as good as people make him out to be. Alonso is an odd one to judge because of the change back to 2011 tyre regulations that suited red bull perfectly, and he had a worse teammate that Seb had which helped him.
How about the fall of Alonso? His battle with Schumacher was epic. Then nothing. The J damper was made illegal. Not sure why it helped him win. but without it, no wins.
I wouldn't say he exactly had a fall. Every year he's raced in F1, he's shown his talent. He made bad decisions on teams, but there was never a doubt that Alonso could win you a WC with the right equipment
Vettel career sumarrise one sentence. "We are fighting against Newey, not Vettel"
this is an easy one. vettel is a one dimensional driver like dany ric. vettel style at red bull was a car with a planted rear of the car. he could not or would not adjust his driving style. This is why he kept spinning so much. when charles showed up he sent vettel in retirement at aston martin. ric has the same problem at mclaren could not adjust his style to both cars. that is why mclaren dumped him.
Who knows what would've happened in Germany in 2018 had Ferrari let Vettel go past Kimi immediately when he got close to Kimi after Sebs pit stop
Turns out he emulated his hero The Nige.
in Russia 2020 he hitted the wall while spinning on the curb
I Need new glasses as thought you were dressed as a nun for a few seconds at the start
In the last decade or so, Ferrari wining a Championship (either driver or constructor) is kind of like Charlie Brown and the football.
S🅱️inalla!
the main thing that went wrong is Seb going to Ferrari in the first place.
The problem is, he went in alone.
Old man Michael wasn't alone when he stepped into the horses' cage. He brought his connections, and managed to mold the Prancing Horse to his (and his connections') liking.
He had many mistakes through his ferrari career, but tbh most of it has to do with ferrari being ferrari and not on seb himself. Of course some of the spins are just ugh but yeah the rest pretty much is just ferraris fault. Not making him clear number 1 und spa and germany for example. The more i think about it, the more blame i put on ferrari rather than seb