As one of the 4 people.... I agree with you on pretty much all counts, I think most people gravitate towards this style of playing D2 if they do catch the bug. I think you'd probably go insane otherwise! I meant, it's over 20 years old. I have made an elementally-augmented physical build before, a lightning-bowazon using various jewels and charms. You can actually get 'good enough' lightning and physical bow damage, though we're talking in terms of /p1. Lightning damage can spawn even on rings and boots, negligible though it is. I also made a physical/fire Ranger paladin build using Widowmaker and Kuko with Griz helm/armor socketed with fire damage jewels and fire facets, as well as fire damage/max damage charms. That was quite a bit of fun. Both w/o using Infinity, and both underpowered. I think what I'm saying is that despite hybrid builds and weird builds being pushed further and further down the totem pole, is that in single player it doesn't matter to an extent. It matters because the cookie cutter builds are always nagging at you, sure, but it's not as if anything is forcing you to use them. It's true that the PvM balance in D2 has been severely messed with negatively yet again for the tippy-top builds, and lots of mid-quality builds becoming perhaps overly strong. But it's nice that so many other previously highly niche builds (Dragon Claw, Fend, Maul, Fire Traps, etc.) have become feasible without an extreme investment of super high quality items. If only they could have resisted the urge to buff all the good builds at the same time, too. Part of the fun for me, just as it is for you, is perfecting the hybrid build as best you can. Literally for years, off and on, I've tried to theorycraft a Barb that uses Bash/Stun/Conc/Double Swing because they all share synergies. Haven't figured it out yet, but I'm sure there's an optimal skill layout and item selection. Same goes for a Sac/Redemption/Holy Bolt/FoH Paladin for undead areas. I wonder if that ones actually possible now that FoH was buffed. Haven't looked. It can't be denied that the genie can't be put back in the bottle, and once you've got Infinity and Sunder charms are you really *not* going to use them when thinking up builds? Maybe the way forward has to be implementing this overpowered equipment to even more niche hybrids that were previously impossible prior to item/skill changes of D2R 2.4. I've yet to try but it might be interesting to feed Chatgpt some information and then ask it to come up some supremely niche builds for inspiration... P.S. One build I'm sorry to see changed so much is the Pstrike sin. No idea why the Blizz team decided they wanted to turn that build into the D2 equivalent of an atom bomb. Pre-D2R changes it was an incredibly fun and challenging build to use in hell, w/ or w/o having access to a larger stash. Now, the dance of strategy required to crowd control monsters with CoS and MB to make up for the somewhat lackluster elemental damage is not really there in the same way. Same can even be said for the Fendazon despite myself enjoying the faster attack speed, when you attacked super slowly you had to be incredibly precise with your positioning w/ decoy lest yourself stuck slowing stabbing.
Thanks for the comment. Yeah, like I mention in the video, I think they made a lot of positive changes. For example, I think their buffs to a lot of weaker skills that were used almost never (or only by the most masochistic off-meta youtubers) were good. It's nice to see blade sins, fire druids, fire trappers, fire claw druids, fendzons, etc. None of these builds are meta, but at least now they are viable to the point of being fun to play. These are the kinds of changes I like. (Totally agree about the phoenix strike assassin though... it's actually a build I had always wanted to make, now I want to stay away from it.) I also think some item additions/changes they made were good. I like flickering flame, I like that you can make an insight in a bow, I like the changes to the A5 mercenary, I like plague although I haven't made one. For me, a lot of the fun of D2 single player was me saying to myself, for example, "I'd like to make a javazon... but how do I get around immunities since I don't have infinity?" Or, "how do I make an enchantress without being able to make dreams/infinity?" And then I would go figure that out, and that careful balancing of tradeoffs is what made the game fun for me, and what made some of my builds a bit creative. Now, there are really no tradeoffs to make, just go for broke on a single element, and since everyone can make every runeword even on single player, the only excuse for having a less-than-perfect build is because you're poor. So now, a lot of my D2 LoD builds are outdated. They were balanced around a meta without infinity, dream, fortitude, spirit, sunder charms, etc. And as I move everything over to D2R, my builds that were optimal in one version of the game's balance are not optimal in the new D2R balance. And that's fine in itself, the problem for me comes in discovering that the new balance doesn't feel quite as creative. But maybe I just have to get my head right. I haven't actually made a new character in a while. I can't think of a really fun one I want to make.
A good case in point was the Holyfire Bowadin build with Demon Machine that I made before sunders were a thing and I had to swap from Holyfire to Holyfreeze making it more dynamic to play... physical rainbow facet would be sick! (with a buff to necro magic skills!) maybe you could run around and showcase some interesting builds while you speak, or speak over that footage?
I usually take a year break from the game now and again, then star again. I also play single player classic 1.14. Listening to your vids while playing is a great way to waste my life. Thanks!
I watched the video too, and I too still love this game! And I mostly agree with you about Sunder charms and Infi, except for one point. In as much as what differentiates melee from casters is that there are fewer phys immunes, that some ele immunes can be broken while other cannot or are harder to, is what differentiates the four ele dmg types.
Hmm that's a fair point I hadn't really thought of. To me, cold is differentiated in that it slows enemies but is weaker. Poison works over time. As to fire and light... the main difference there is that lightning as a higher max but is more variable. (In addition to the differences in the mechanics of the skills applying these kinds of damage, of course). In my opinion, I think if some immunities can't be broken, there'd have to be some compensating benefit for using that type of damage. Maybe in the case of cold vs. light sorcs you could say okay, light sorcs can do everything with infinity, but cold sorcs are better with budget gear / magic finding early on (cheesing meph, AT runs, for example). But as to fire damage, there appears to be no compensating benefit. There are tons of fire immunes, they can't be broken, so pure fire sorcs are kinda dead in the water. I think it'd be fair to balance in the game along the lines you suggest, but I don't think it's fairly implemented in the game as it stands. Further, I think once the concept of breaking immunities is in the game, I think every damage type ought to have a somewhat equivalent ability to do that.
I still run Hybrid builds. FB/Orb or Nova/Orb builds. I only JUST started playing d2R a month ago since my PC couldn’t run D2R so I was stuck on Pluggy. When my old PC took a dump, I finally could justify the expense of getting a better PC. After 10yrs of Pluggy, 22yrs total of d2, I went into D2R offline at first to really experience the difference. First impression was obviously the graphics. Never realized how primitive D2 was until playing d2R. As for the game play and TZ, it was cool, something different after 10yrs. It was kinda nice being dirt poor again and not having 400 pages of GG end game gear to choose from with all the Hr to make anything. Been a while since I was excited to find a 20@res Vmagi lol. Anyways, I started as an Orb/FB since I had no sunders. 2 weeks later I was fully geared with all your typical MF gear and PVM gear. Even made a pally to farm torches. I decided to respec to try out the fire sunder/cold sunder I found. I went both full fire and cold builds. Blizzard being the better of the two IMO. In my testing, even on P7, imo, I killed faster with full tals set hybrid build (orb/FB). Maybe it’s just the way I play or that I hadn’t gotten an infinity yet but even after getting an infinity after a month, I still preferred my hybrid build for running TZ. I just felt safer and more confident. For killing anywhere in the game, Orb/Static/FB felt superior. Tele in, toss out an orb or glacial spike, static 4 times, and use orb/FB to finish off whatever on screen. I’m currently trying to farm more Ber runes in LK so I can try the whole self holding infinity Nova/Es build since that seems to be the endgame setup but for overall game play, I think and hybrid (tri spec) sorc with Orb/static/FB is still one of the best builds. You may clear certain areas faster as a pure build but if your running any TZ that the games gives you, Hybrid is still better, even with Subder charms. Also, sunder charms got me killed a few times where I normally wouldn’t. Being fire with fire sunder is super dangerous while farming D keys or cold/fire enchanted monsters with a cold/fire sunder. Using 7X 10% cold/fire Scs just to counter the sunder is annoying and you still kill the monsters slowly after breaking the immunity. So in conclusion, I still think Hybrid builds are useful. Only time I spec pure cold/fire is if I’m target farming. If/when I play on Bnet (unlikely since I live in Hawai’i and the Hawai’i Ping is awful) I’ll go Hybrid so I can continue farming anywhere and everywhere without worry.
I play a holy freeze paladin almost every ladder season, with azurewrath as my budget weapon right. And its not terrible, but without infinity its a bit of a slog and not as fun to play with. Which does ring with your statement, its extreamly fucking hard to get that ele dmg up as a mele elemental build. Like, every mele elemental build will be solid, you just need that infinity badly and till you get it you're better off playing a boring caster if you want some semblence of efficency
Dude, this level of activity is crazy. The king truly has returned.
These other D2 youtubers been slackin, and I'm comin for em
@@kruggers1329 10k subs by next week tell you what buster
LETS FUCKIN GOOOOO
Literally gasped while doing my laundry when you shouted me out haha. Thanks mate, you lil cutie
Good to know you're keeping things clean and tidy.
nice to see you upload dude
As one of the 4 people....
I agree with you on pretty much all counts, I think most people gravitate towards this style of playing D2 if they do catch the bug. I think you'd probably go insane otherwise! I meant, it's over 20 years old.
I have made an elementally-augmented physical build before, a lightning-bowazon using various jewels and charms. You can actually get 'good enough' lightning and physical bow damage, though we're talking in terms of /p1. Lightning damage can spawn even on rings and boots, negligible though it is. I also made a physical/fire Ranger paladin build using Widowmaker and Kuko with Griz helm/armor socketed with fire damage jewels and fire facets, as well as fire damage/max damage charms. That was quite a bit of fun. Both w/o using Infinity, and both underpowered.
I think what I'm saying is that despite hybrid builds and weird builds being pushed further and further down the totem pole, is that in single player it doesn't matter to an extent. It matters because the cookie cutter builds are always nagging at you, sure, but it's not as if anything is forcing you to use them. It's true that the PvM balance in D2 has been severely messed with negatively yet again for the tippy-top builds, and lots of mid-quality builds becoming perhaps overly strong. But it's nice that so many other previously highly niche builds (Dragon Claw, Fend, Maul, Fire Traps, etc.) have become feasible without an extreme investment of super high quality items. If only they could have resisted the urge to buff all the good builds at the same time, too.
Part of the fun for me, just as it is for you, is perfecting the hybrid build as best you can. Literally for years, off and on, I've tried to theorycraft a Barb that uses Bash/Stun/Conc/Double Swing because they all share synergies. Haven't figured it out yet, but I'm sure there's an optimal skill layout and item selection. Same goes for a Sac/Redemption/Holy Bolt/FoH Paladin for undead areas. I wonder if that ones actually possible now that FoH was buffed. Haven't looked.
It can't be denied that the genie can't be put back in the bottle, and once you've got Infinity and Sunder charms are you really *not* going to use them when thinking up builds? Maybe the way forward has to be implementing this overpowered equipment to even more niche hybrids that were previously impossible prior to item/skill changes of D2R 2.4. I've yet to try but it might be interesting to feed Chatgpt some information and then ask it to come up some supremely niche builds for inspiration...
P.S.
One build I'm sorry to see changed so much is the Pstrike sin. No idea why the Blizz team decided they wanted to turn that build into the D2 equivalent of an atom bomb. Pre-D2R changes it was an incredibly fun and challenging build to use in hell, w/ or w/o having access to a larger stash. Now, the dance of strategy required to crowd control monsters with CoS and MB to make up for the somewhat lackluster elemental damage is not really there in the same way. Same can even be said for the Fendazon despite myself enjoying the faster attack speed, when you attacked super slowly you had to be incredibly precise with your positioning w/ decoy lest yourself stuck slowing stabbing.
Thanks for the comment. Yeah, like I mention in the video, I think they made a lot of positive changes. For example, I think their buffs to a lot of weaker skills that were used almost never (or only by the most masochistic off-meta youtubers) were good. It's nice to see blade sins, fire druids, fire trappers, fire claw druids, fendzons, etc. None of these builds are meta, but at least now they are viable to the point of being fun to play. These are the kinds of changes I like. (Totally agree about the phoenix strike assassin though... it's actually a build I had always wanted to make, now I want to stay away from it.)
I also think some item additions/changes they made were good. I like flickering flame, I like that you can make an insight in a bow, I like the changes to the A5 mercenary, I like plague although I haven't made one.
For me, a lot of the fun of D2 single player was me saying to myself, for example, "I'd like to make a javazon... but how do I get around immunities since I don't have infinity?" Or, "how do I make an enchantress without being able to make dreams/infinity?" And then I would go figure that out, and that careful balancing of tradeoffs is what made the game fun for me, and what made some of my builds a bit creative. Now, there are really no tradeoffs to make, just go for broke on a single element, and since everyone can make every runeword even on single player, the only excuse for having a less-than-perfect build is because you're poor.
So now, a lot of my D2 LoD builds are outdated. They were balanced around a meta without infinity, dream, fortitude, spirit, sunder charms, etc. And as I move everything over to D2R, my builds that were optimal in one version of the game's balance are not optimal in the new D2R balance. And that's fine in itself, the problem for me comes in discovering that the new balance doesn't feel quite as creative. But maybe I just have to get my head right. I haven't actually made a new character in a while. I can't think of a really fun one I want to make.
A good case in point was the Holyfire Bowadin build with Demon Machine that I made before sunders were a thing and I had to swap from Holyfire to Holyfreeze making it more dynamic to play...
physical rainbow facet would be sick! (with a buff to necro magic skills!)
maybe you could run around and showcase some interesting builds while you speak, or speak over that footage?
I usually take a year break from the game now and again, then star again. I also play single player classic 1.14. Listening to your vids while playing is a great way to waste my life. Thanks!
I watched the video too, and I too still love this game! And I mostly agree with you about Sunder charms and Infi, except for one point. In as much as what differentiates melee from casters is that there are fewer phys immunes, that some ele immunes can be broken while other cannot or are harder to, is what differentiates the four ele dmg types.
Hmm that's a fair point I hadn't really thought of. To me, cold is differentiated in that it slows enemies but is weaker. Poison works over time. As to fire and light... the main difference there is that lightning as a higher max but is more variable. (In addition to the differences in the mechanics of the skills applying these kinds of damage, of course).
In my opinion, I think if some immunities can't be broken, there'd have to be some compensating benefit for using that type of damage. Maybe in the case of cold vs. light sorcs you could say okay, light sorcs can do everything with infinity, but cold sorcs are better with budget gear / magic finding early on (cheesing meph, AT runs, for example). But as to fire damage, there appears to be no compensating benefit. There are tons of fire immunes, they can't be broken, so pure fire sorcs are kinda dead in the water. I think it'd be fair to balance in the game along the lines you suggest, but I don't think it's fairly implemented in the game as it stands. Further, I think once the concept of breaking immunities is in the game, I think every damage type ought to have a somewhat equivalent ability to do that.
Regarding the sunder charms, did you guys enjoy playing hybrid builds? Honestly I never enjoyed any of the ones I tried
I still run Hybrid builds. FB/Orb or Nova/Orb builds. I only JUST started playing d2R a month ago since my PC couldn’t run D2R so I was stuck on Pluggy. When my old PC took a dump, I finally could justify the expense of getting a better PC. After 10yrs of Pluggy, 22yrs total of d2, I went into D2R offline at first to really experience the difference. First impression was obviously the graphics. Never realized how primitive D2 was until playing d2R. As for the game play and TZ, it was cool, something different after 10yrs. It was kinda nice being dirt poor again and not having 400 pages of GG end game gear to choose from with all the Hr to make anything. Been a while since I was excited to find a 20@res Vmagi lol. Anyways, I started as an Orb/FB since I had no sunders. 2 weeks later I was fully geared with all your typical MF gear and PVM gear. Even made a pally to farm torches. I decided to respec to try out the fire sunder/cold sunder I found. I went both full fire and cold builds. Blizzard being the better of the two IMO. In my testing, even on P7, imo, I killed faster with full tals set hybrid build (orb/FB). Maybe it’s just the way I play or that I hadn’t gotten an infinity yet but even after getting an infinity after a month, I still preferred my hybrid build for running TZ. I just felt safer and more confident. For killing anywhere in the game, Orb/Static/FB felt superior. Tele in, toss out an orb or glacial spike, static 4 times, and use orb/FB to finish off whatever on screen. I’m currently trying to farm more Ber runes in LK so I can try the whole self holding infinity Nova/Es build since that seems to be the endgame setup but for overall game play, I think and hybrid (tri spec) sorc with Orb/static/FB is still one of the best builds. You may clear certain areas faster as a pure build but if your running any TZ that the games gives you, Hybrid is still better, even with Subder charms. Also, sunder charms got me killed a few times where I normally wouldn’t. Being fire with fire sunder is super dangerous while farming D keys or cold/fire enchanted monsters with a cold/fire sunder. Using 7X 10% cold/fire Scs just to counter the sunder is annoying and you still kill the monsters slowly after breaking the immunity. So in conclusion, I still think Hybrid builds are useful. Only time I spec pure cold/fire is if I’m target farming. If/when I play on Bnet (unlikely since I live in Hawai’i and the Hawai’i Ping is awful) I’ll go Hybrid so I can continue farming anywhere and everywhere without worry.
Appreciate the thoughtful response my friend, I dig
More videos please
When I would get bored of d2 I would do a 1 char self found p8 on HC. No item transferring.
Lol i gotcha. My current masochist project is the rares/magics only zealer. Haven't worked on him in a long long time, though.
I dunno why I trust this guy's opinion, but all seems reasonaable and I like your voice
Heck, you don't gotta trust opinion, except to trust that it is my opinion. Then you have your own opinion about my opinion.
I play a holy freeze paladin almost every ladder season, with azurewrath as my budget weapon right. And its not terrible, but without infinity its a bit of a slog and not as fun to play with. Which does ring with your statement, its extreamly fucking hard to get that ele dmg up as a mele elemental build. Like, every mele elemental build will be solid, you just need that infinity badly and till you get it you're better off playing a boring caster if you want some semblence of efficency
Just git gud bozo
@DoubleBilly i cant I have a wife and kids ;_;
Kruggersss
Every build cant be the nuts. I have to be content with lower dps if i want to make lower dps choices.