#OldSchool #TTRPG #DungeonsAndDagons #DnD #Tonisborg #Arneson #Gygax In this video, I FINALLY flip through The Lost Dungeon of Tonisborg book and talk about it a bit.
Well I don't know who Griff is but that is the sign of an extremely weak and fragile individual. Send them a box of tissues with smiley faces printed on them.
I block people when I get tired of all the infighting. It isn't even out of anger. Sometimes you just have to let go of the "I am right" and consider the other option of "am I correct?" I am not in the drama so I opt to figure out who is stirring shit. I did the same thing with all the woke kids. Once I realized telling them to block me would end all my issues life was good again. they all just went away. Every once in a while one will come around and call me a R, or a N, or a Boomer. I don;t even reply and go stright for the block. Then the BROSRs showed up and they caused trouble and acted like ass hats. A determined Blocking Campaign ensued. They all hate me and I can give a snot because my feed is calm now. Frankly, if Venger wants to put up his farewell post and he feels Shadowdark is part of the cause of his ailments, just let him. I disagree because people who buy Shadow dark seem to buy my dungeon book to use with it. I have this hunch I've gotten hundreds of dollars from Shadowdark gamers looking for a dungeon to play with their rules. Yet, do I really care if Venger says it's a bad influence? Nope, not one bit. He is entitled to his views. For myself, once I realized that half of my online fights were with snarky 14 year olds I really had to step back and ask what my win win scenario is. My win win scenario is to make good RPG material and grow my company and the convention. We usually lose money running the convention, but it's fun as hell to get everyone together. To me, that is a win. There is that amygdala lizard brain reaction that can happen with online BS where you just feel yourself going all out rage mode. The trick is in seeing when that lizard brain is trying to take over and realizing you need to step away from the keyboard. I've been working on that a lot. An odd perspective is when you realize that maybe it doesn't make a difference if you are right or not. Where is your long term win scenario? Cheers.
Honestly, I'm not reading all of this. But I'll say it's easy for you to say all of this when you didn't have Pundit trying to wreck your name by calling you an anti-semite, causing this stuff to reach all the way to Kelsey's circle of friends and her discord just before a Kickstarter. You didn't have Pundit's co-host making fun of your ethnicity for a year either. So kindly mind your own business if you don't care about it so much. I was fair to your book here despite your cowardice and attempts to make adhere to rules you do not place on your buddy pundit or venger. or Ryan David.
@@griffithmorgan4966 As someone involved in the drama, I'll tell you it does hit a bit different when people have to get literal lawyers involved and deal with attempted doxing and real life harassment over it.
Thanks for the kind words. I will disagree with you on my rules in that CHAINMAIL is very deeply infused into the ZED rules throughout. In fact the original Champions of ZED rules from which this was revised had used the CM combat system (basically as elaborated in my OD&D with CHAINMAIL booklet), but this version relies on the D&D draft combat mechanic.
I think there are just different ways to go about it I guess. People disagree with how I have implemented chainmail into the 3LBBs and the Alternative Combat System. I guess I own the originals and have made my own clone so for me I didn't back the KS for the rules. Thanks for the comment.
@@TheBasicExpert Champions of ZED (2013) uses 2d6 for combat and allows a choice of either a CHAINMAIL mass combat table emulator or Fantasy Combat table emulator. The ZED Tonisborg revision switched to the D&D draft method of subtracting level and AC from 20 and rolling a d20 to hit.
Those who need a denouncement might not be the target audience. But for those that do can now breathe easy I have this I think it's' a fun look at the history of the game.
I think it's interesting that there are so many diagonal passages, and how the maps are kind of long and narrow. The maps remind me more of RL cave maps than most dungeon maps do.
Thank you for saying modern sensibilities are stupid. There’s been an ever growing trend in recent years of “Presentism” used to criticize people and their works, not only in the TTRPG world but in all creative works. These criticisms by “modern audiences” and their ever changing purity tests. The ability to objectively study these works has been lost in the western educational systems.
Oddly they've never noticed that the so-called modern audience never seems to appear. Everything designed for the so-called modern audience fails because that consumer bracket by and large doesn't exist
I got Tonisborg as well, quite like it! As you say, the disclaimer is silly but certainly not the most egregious example, though I agree with you and Rob Kuntz's WotC letter about the nature of those types of things in general. Have you talked anywhere about that idea Moldvaian Revisionism that I could check out? If not that may be a neat video idea. I started in 3.5 as it was the current edition when I started playing, but have gone back to try out all the older stuff, and I'd love to know what sort of things might have been distinct about OD&D relative to the Basic editions that may have become muddled in the aftermath.
The biggest difference I can think of is that Moldvay introduced race-as-class. That drove most of us to AD&D. It's weird to me that B/X is the most cloned version today.
@@jasonjacobson1157 yeah, and I guess the thief being included in the core rulebooks, instead of a supplement. I'm sure there's other idiosyncrasies in the gameplay rules and stuff but it's definitely things that are small enough that I didn't notice it offhand. I wasn't sure if he might've also meant questions of play style or GMing style too that were assumed to go back to OD&D and didn't really.
No I disgree with Griff that that is how the game is to be played. I think Chainmail is a requirement to fill in the gaps of 0e. Griff disagrees despite 0e referencing chainmail all over in the 3LBBs. The GM fiat idea arises, as far as a retro active view of the game, from the perceived holes in 0e. Those holes are mostly clarified by Chainmail which is why I feel viewing the game as a GM fiat game as historically incorrect.
@@dallasfavel4817 you're a slack jawed, mouth breathing troglodyte who is so pathetic and weak with spindly arms you need authors to warn you about what is in a book so you don't feel negative emotions from words. Go pound sand.
Griff has be blocked on X so it's funny because I recorded it last week. Haha. Hi Griff!
@@TheBasicExpert it doesn't take much for him to block somebody
Well I don't know who Griff is but that is the sign of an extremely weak and fragile individual. Send them a box of tissues with smiley faces printed on them.
I block people when I get tired of all the infighting. It isn't even out of anger.
Sometimes you just have to let go of the "I am right" and consider the other option of "am I correct?"
I am not in the drama so I opt to figure out who is stirring shit.
I did the same thing with all the woke kids. Once I realized telling them to block me would end all my issues life was good again. they all just went away. Every once in a while one will come around and call me a R, or a N, or a Boomer. I don;t even reply and go stright for the block. Then the BROSRs showed up and they caused trouble and acted like ass hats. A determined Blocking Campaign ensued. They all hate me and I can give a snot because my feed is calm now.
Frankly, if Venger wants to put up his farewell post and he feels Shadowdark is part of the cause of his ailments, just let him. I disagree because people who buy Shadow dark seem to buy my dungeon book to use with it. I have this hunch I've gotten hundreds of dollars from Shadowdark gamers looking for a dungeon to play with their rules. Yet, do I really care if Venger says it's a bad influence? Nope, not one bit. He is entitled to his views.
For myself, once I realized that half of my online fights were with snarky 14 year olds I really had to step back and ask what my win win scenario is. My win win scenario is to make good RPG material and grow my company and the convention. We usually lose money running the convention, but it's fun as hell to get everyone together. To me, that is a win.
There is that amygdala lizard brain reaction that can happen with online BS where you just feel yourself going all out rage mode. The trick is in seeing when that lizard brain is trying to take over and realizing you need to step away from the keyboard. I've been working on that a lot.
An odd perspective is when you realize that maybe it doesn't make a difference if you are right or not. Where is your long term win scenario?
Cheers.
Honestly, I'm not reading all of this. But I'll say it's easy for you to say all of this when you didn't have Pundit trying to wreck your name by calling you an anti-semite, causing this stuff to reach all the way to Kelsey's circle of friends and her discord just before a Kickstarter.
You didn't have Pundit's co-host making fun of your ethnicity for a year either. So kindly mind your own business if you don't care about it so much. I was fair to your book here despite your cowardice and attempts to make adhere to rules you do not place on your buddy pundit or venger. or Ryan David.
@@griffithmorgan4966 As someone involved in the drama, I'll tell you it does hit a bit different when people have to get literal lawyers involved and deal with attempted doxing and real life harassment over it.
"...modern sensibilities are stupid..." Bravo sir. Bravo😂
3:15 Our modern sensibilities change every couple of months so of course no one from the past will meet these standards.
Thanks for the kind words. I will disagree with you on my rules in that CHAINMAIL is very deeply infused into the ZED rules throughout. In fact the original Champions of ZED rules from which this was revised had used the CM combat system (basically as elaborated in my OD&D with CHAINMAIL booklet), but this version relies on the D&D draft combat mechanic.
I think there are just different ways to go about it I guess. People disagree with how I have implemented chainmail into the 3LBBs and the Alternative Combat System. I guess I own the originals and have made my own clone so for me I didn't back the KS for the rules. Thanks for the comment.
So did the original version only use D6s and it was revised here to the ACS?
@@TheBasicExpert Champions of ZED (2013) uses 2d6 for combat and allows a choice of either a CHAINMAIL mass combat table emulator or Fantasy Combat table emulator. The ZED Tonisborg revision switched to the D&D draft method of subtracting level and AC from 20 and rolling a d20 to hit.
@@danielboggs2013 Sounds cool.
Those who need a denouncement might not be the target audience.
But for those that do can now breathe easy
I have this I think it's' a fun look at the history of the game.
Got a copy of the paperback version a couple of weeks ago. Highly recommended if you are into OSR or OSR adjacent gaming.
I think it's interesting that there are so many diagonal passages, and how the maps are kind of long and narrow. The maps remind me more of RL cave maps than most dungeon maps do.
currently reading this, LOVE IT
3:50 its not Evil Hat's denunciation of Lovecraft in Fate of Cthulhu.
@@mercuriusaulicus that was the game I was thinking of.
@@TheBasicExpert Trail of Cthulhu has its own hit piece on Lovecraft, as well.
Thank you for saying modern sensibilities are stupid. There’s been an ever growing trend in recent years of “Presentism” used to criticize people and their works, not only in the TTRPG world but in all creative works. These criticisms by “modern audiences” and their ever changing purity tests. The ability to objectively study these works has been lost in the western educational systems.
Oddly they've never noticed that the so-called modern audience never seems to appear. Everything designed for the so-called modern audience fails because that consumer bracket by and large doesn't exist
I backed it, but it's on my reading pile. I am glad I picked up the paperback version. I am also pro smith sewn.
I got Tonisborg as well, quite like it! As you say, the disclaimer is silly but certainly not the most egregious example, though I agree with you and Rob Kuntz's WotC letter about the nature of those types of things in general. Have you talked anywhere about that idea Moldvaian Revisionism that I could check out? If not that may be a neat video idea. I started in 3.5 as it was the current edition when I started playing, but have gone back to try out all the older stuff, and I'd love to know what sort of things might have been distinct about OD&D relative to the Basic editions that may have become muddled in the aftermath.
Moldvayian Revisionism would be an interesting topic. Though I should probably tag team Clerics Wear Ringmail as he coined the term I believe.
The biggest difference I can think of is that Moldvay introduced race-as-class. That drove most of us to AD&D. It's weird to me that B/X is the most cloned version today.
@@jasonjacobson1157 yeah, and I guess the thief being included in the core rulebooks, instead of a supplement. I'm sure there's other idiosyncrasies in the gameplay rules and stuff but it's definitely things that are small enough that I didn't notice it offhand. I wasn't sure if he might've also meant questions of play style or GMing style too that were assumed to go back to OD&D and didn't really.
Cool book, hated the trigger warning at the beginning.
When I helped write it I was literally thinking that I consider the founding of the United States to be a freedom movement.
I just got this the other day
The GM fiat thing, this is using old school rules as is and having to make rulings?
No I disgree with Griff that that is how the game is to be played. I think Chainmail is a requirement to fill in the gaps of 0e. Griff disagrees despite 0e referencing chainmail all over in the 3LBBs. The GM fiat idea arises, as far as a retro active view of the game, from the perceived holes in 0e. Those holes are mostly clarified by Chainmail which is why I feel viewing the game as a GM fiat game as historically incorrect.
@@TheBasicExpert gotcha, thank you
So what happened with those fighters? Rout? TPK? Tense negotiation?
One hireling was killed and a PC was nearly killed. They ran away.
@@TheBasicExpert RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!
Good times.
We get to see the table of contents only after 5 minutes?
Man, this is a 10 minute video at best.
You can pause.
I was going to ask if you were going to Arnecon but I guess if the TO blocked you on twitter the answer is snap no. Lol.
Yeah I won't be there. Being a Dad makes it hard to get away too.
@@TheBasicExpert all good. I'm running od&d and picked up Wightbox as a nice goto for resolving ambiguity. Very well thought out.
Ew, dude. Review the book. Trigger warnings exist.
They shouldn't. You're ew.
@TheBasicExpert dude you're afraid of trigger warnings and think 'product of their time's an excuse for stuff. Shush.
@dallasfavel4817 Shut up you dumb gross nerd. I didn't fill out a consent form checklist for your cringe and stupidity.
@@TheBasicExpert you felt pretty comfortable spouting stupidity in the first minute of your video. The consent is implied.
@@dallasfavel4817 you're a slack jawed, mouth breathing troglodyte who is so pathetic and weak with spindly arms you need authors to warn you about what is in a book so you don't feel negative emotions from words.
Go pound sand.