I have both a gravel bike and XC MTB. I'd agree with pretty much everything said here. I'd add that I can take my gravel bike downhill on most of what I can do on the XC MTB. The difference is speed and confidence. On the gravel bike the key is to keep the downhill speed really slow and focus like a laser on picking your line through the rough stuff. It's different kind of riding than on the XC bike where I can take the same downhill faster and with more comfort/confidence and not pay quite as much attention to every little rock or bump. Uphills on the gravel bike, I can almost do the same trails as the XC MTB, but not quite. The rougher the trail gets, the more advantage the XC MTB has in general. That said, I spend more time on the gravel bike because I live in an area with lots of only moderately rough desert FWD trails through valleys and hills and the gravel bike is just faster and lighter for long distance rides. Way less fatiguing on all but the roughest trails. But, there are also some pretty epic mountain trails around here too... that's when I turn to the XC MTB most of the time (but not all).
Excellent review! The only thing that keeps me from buying a gravel bike is my 29er hardtail. I use it as my "go anywhere/exploring" bike. I'm not saying it's superior to a gravel bike, but it does fill that role, at least for now! Road, gravel road, single track, and bike path? Check, check, check, and check. Will I buy a gravel bike someday? Probably.
Thanks for putting this video together, I've been going round in circles trying to decide which bike type will be more appropriate, this has helped me decide, cheers
I agree on this one... i went with my friend on a mountain bike trail.. the downhill was quite terrifying on a gravel bike. The lack of suspension made me tired and you cant go fast.
If you own a really good xc hardtail then that would be the go to bike. Road/gravel/singletrack rock'n'roots does it all. Good video and keeps the debate going!
I have a very good mtb, but I still miss my CX (ok, not gravel) because, as you say, the gravel variety gives you more scope for a ride, I like to have the opportunity to go out with one ride in mind then change and choose to do something different. I think that with a gravel / cx bike you can improve your riding as it forces you to read the trail and adjust speed, line etc. I think I recognised some of those trails as well, looks like some stuff I rode during the MADORC a few years back :)
Good video and I totally agree with your points on having both is the best. I have an Orbea Occam trail bike and just bought an Orbea Terra gravel bike a couple of months ago. I love them both for the same reasons you explained. If I could have just one bike I would keep the Occam as I could use it with a skinny tire wheel set as a ‘gravel bike’ as I used to do it before the Terra. But after putting 1000km in the Terra I can say I was totally wrong when I thought that a mountain bike with skinny tires is pretty much the same as a gravel bike. Yes, you can ride an MTB as a gravel bike but riding a gravel is a totally different experience that will even improve you technique if you ride it on single trails. If you can afford having both then just do it you won’t be disappointed.
Very similar reasons though my bikes are a fair bit cheaper! I have a decent but workhorse Gravel bike that I do Club Runs, and mixed rides ie road and gravel/mud depending on time of the year! Which I do from my doorstep. The MTB is a mid end Full Suspension Trail beastie and is my “Sunday Best” which generally I take to some trails by Car/train and do more intense day out on it. At the moment the Gravel bike is getting all the love! I’d also agree that there are trails one can do on the Gravel bike but aren’t much fun really, since your having to pick your way around rocks and what not!
A hard tail literally does everything. Not very well in some cases but you don't worry about a mountain bike. You worry about a gravel bike when you're smashing off exposed rocks at speed
Good video. Personally, it all depends on were you ride....If you do a mix of road, and light trails, forestry, etc then the Gravel bike is an excellent choice - and pretty versatile. If you prefer something more gnarlier, then its the MTB.....even though it's not as good on the road - unless you drive to were you are riding.
Gravel or all road bikes are really for getting significant distances done on mixed road quality between tarmac and gravel. There's a trend to start calling them all road bikes now as for cross country riding they just can't compete with a hard tail mountain bike
@@KOL630 yes and also gravel bikes are more of a work worse. They can be used for urban city commuting, ripping the trails, single track, fire road gravel riding, bike packing, touring....list goes on
@@brosettastone7520 MTB can do urban city, gravel, rough gravel and super tough terrain. Gravel Bikes can do urban city, gravel and rough gravel then when it comes to super tough terrain eaither the biker falls over 15 feet by hitting a big rock or the tires explodes or worse the bike falls apart and your left looking like the clown in a circus riding on one tire all this is happening while your yelling oh shit! And the list stops there. Lol
Good video! I sold my gravel bike recently, was just too tricky and uncomfortable on the rides I do (loose rock, splippy forest tree roots) was too much of a compromise, and just wasn't having fun, hitting rocks and feeling the jarring through the frame and wheels, my mechanical sympathy took the better of me - Having spent years on my MTB Full Susser riding to the trails, I am happy to continue doing this - But, was good for the short time owing it, and in this mad era of bike prices, and the "gravel" buzzwords, I made money on selling it :D
I own an S-Works full suspension XC bike, which weighs 9.6kg (lighter than most gravel bikes). It’s comfy, fast and versatile. The hardtail version weighs 7.6kg
Nice one! I only have a Gravelbike right now but I can confirm everything you noticed about the Gravelbike. Real rough stuff can be quite terrifying, especially downhill but at a certain point when it gets smoother you start speed tripping rather quickly. Btw, I'd be very interested to see how a Gravelbike would perform against a Hardtail, since I wonder if I should start saving up for one.
@@davidarthur That would be pretty awesome! Thanks man - that would be very helpful and I'd definitely concider your opinion in this regard when it comes to a purchasing decision. Also, this video is a great reference point for a followup.
For me, I like having both a gravel bike and hardtail XC MTB. It's just fun to have the variety. Sometimes I like just switching them up for the hell of it. I don't really ride trails so technical that the XC can't handle it, but I do get on some that the gravel bike is way out of its element (and my comfort zone). That's when I use the XC MTB most often. Otherwise, I tend to ride the gravel bike more just because it is lighter, snappier handling, and I can put the miles under it faster (assuming the trail is not too horrible).
Thanks for the video! I spent so much time with research and it seemed like the gravel bike is the better mtb. I ride a lot through the forest and thought a gravel bike can do the same and be even better but now I see, that my Hardtail was the right choice.
Currently my only bike is a gravel bike. I will get a Lux, and an aero road bike over the next two or so years. In the mean time, 650b wheels with 47c WTB Senderos do rather well on the trail, depending on how hard/long you want to push it, and 28c Conti 5000 TLR's keep Pace with my roadie pals on pave. Does it rule them all, no, but it can stretch a fair bit in any direction you have the resolve to push. Nice vid!
Fantastic review and explanation. I ride both bikes roughly 100km a week each. Just one addition, coming from mountain biking I actually enjoy riding the gravel bike on rough single tracks and enjoy the excitement. It feels fresh that the bike has a limit and that this limit is easy reachable on single trail declines that are laughable on the mountain bike. Please understand just as an addition for fellow mountain biker not as a criticism for what you said. 😊
Gravel bike is only for travel adventures on smooth contry roads, when paved roads aren't an option.. single tracks, technical stuff, obstacles and mud.. are way better and more enjoyable on the mountain bike. Nice video tks for producinig it! ;)
Your analysis is spot on! I’m having a mix decision choosing one for the Leadville 100 mtb so I’m debating either hacking the gravel with a 40mm fork or putting on a compact aero bar on the mtb. You input will be greatly appreciated ;)
This is probably the most helpful video ive watched. I was torn between the grail and the nueron for my commute to work which can be all road or 50/50 depending on which route I want to take. I definitely think the grail will be the better choice especially with the 600ft of climbing on the way home from work lol
Not sure if It’s fair to compare a full suspension XC bike with a no suspension Gravel bike . But watching this certainly helped me make up my mind . As I live in B.C. a gravel bike has limited use unless one is bike touring . As off-road XC here is mostly single track . So instead of buying another bike , I’ll put that money into tricking out my base model Epic Comp .
The struggle is real... so buy both... I did... well road and MTB at least. I have a Tarmac Expert SL6 and a Stumpjumper Expert 27.5... love being able to ride any dirt and any road. Provides endless possibilities, and is quite a joy:-)
Hi David! If you give 10 out of 10 points to the Canyon Lux for off-road performance, how much would you give to the Grail? And my real question is, how much would you give to the OPEN WI.DE? Does it stand closer to the Grail and it is just slightly better than the Grail or is it really closer to a MTB?
It really depends on the terrain! On mtb trails the Grail just can't keep up, but on mild trails the gap is much narrower. It really comes down to how challenging the trails are and how much you want to challenge yourself by riding them at high speed. The Open Wide I rode with fat 650b tyres is impressively comfortable and better when riding mainly off-road bumpy trails than the Grail, which is really built for speed on smoother gravel
@@davidarthur Thanks for your reply David! I hoped that the WIDE is better on bumpy trails than the Grail, but by how much? Right now I have a 3T Exploro, which with 650b wheels and 2.0" tires I did not find comfortably enough on bumpy roads. In fact it is many times scary... Would it make the upgrade worth for WIDE's 2.4" tires? Not a cheap one, that's why I am hesitating... My 29er Specialized Epic has 2.3" tires, so if that is good enough will the WIDE be OK?
Just getting into biking and I'm torn, because I don't really know what surface I'll like most. I feel like the MTB looks way more fun off-road even when there's only a few small roots. But I also want to commute on a bike around 5 miles.. so maybe I need a gravel bike. I don't know... tough decision, luckily they are both out of stock everywhere for now so I might go and check out some trails on foot to decide.
Dude this is the exact same problem I have been having! I want to be able to ride on the road like a road bike but I also want to be able to do proper downhill trails too... So annoying haha, If bikes weren't so expensive I could get 2 but, they are.
To get the very low gears on the Grail, suggest you look into fitting the (unsupported) 11-42 cassette, if you are willing to avoid crosschaining the small chainring with the smaller cogs. I have ordered a 2X GRX gravel bike (the Norco XR C3), and will be doing just that. A bike shop told me they are actually selling bikes like that.
@@davidarthur I'd be very interested in your experience. I've had a bit of a setback, and won't be able to have a test ride for a couple of weeks at minimum - had a bad fall off my MTB and have to rest up. 🤪 Just btw, even if you do crosschain, I don't think the chain necessarily falls off straight away - I saw a comment from someone who said it "just works", as if they were ignorant of the risk.
@@davidarthur thanks! Btw, I can't seem to see shift indicators on the hoods. Are there any? If not, I'm cancelling my order. Even without the crosschaining issue, I love shift indicators. EDIT: no shift indicators, and I have cancelled my order. I know there is probably a way to tack something on, but I was on the fence as to whether I needed a new bike, and this little hiccup has swayed me the other way. I'll keep two bikes - road & MTB, and will now investigate bike storage options, to free up space at home.
Oh that's a shame! Shimano does offer optional optical gear indicators on its Tiagra, Claris and Sora shifters though bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technologies/component/details/optical-gear-display.html
Gravel vs xc mountain bike is an interesting question and think gravel bikes are mainly for roadies who like going fast on a mixture of terrain. I currently own a gravel bike a Revolt Advanced 0 and love it to bits and rarely ride my road bike these days but am quickly discovering the limitations of gravel bikes when the trails get rough and technical so if you already own a mountain bike and aren't interested in going fast on roads then the mountain bike is all you really need plus in reality there isn't much difference between a gravel bike and a xc hardtail other than the handle bar, gearing and tyres.
What I’m seriously looking for is lightweight, 17 pounds racing cross country bike, all in with top-of-the-line equipment. To be used as a gravel bike a mountain bike and do something crazy like the dirty Kanza. I’m tempted to put all money into one bike rather than splitting money into two, because 17 pounds is mighty expensive. I’ll need that to go up Road to the sun in glacier national Park
This is a test on a short ride, 30K Would like to see if you did a test with is 300K. I think for bike packing ( what I intent to do this summer) A gravel bike is the way to go. You left out the comfort aspect, riding for days is not what you want to do with a mountainbike right? A graves bike has more comfort, witch is essential for me for longer rides.
How much do you spin out on the mtb when your on the road please I really can’t make up my mind what I would like and to me it’s all about spinning out which I like I might do on the mtb with such a small front chainring ?
I have both but if I must have one it would be the gravel bike because you can go (almost... ) even on the most difficult trails that are meat for MTB, just more carefully or walk the impossible bits. To get to any place just by car is a commitment and if you ride to the trail on a MTB you get exausted before hitting the trails. So more flexibility and more time riding than actually driving would make me choose the gravel bike
I have both. A older gravel bike with a bit more tire clearance and road gearing. And a XC hardtail. I mainly use the gravel bike. The mtb is my winter bike and for when I want to switch things up.
Gravel Bike = Ride long over everything and just be free MTB = Plan how to bring you bike somewhere to have much fun like snowboarding and go home after and clean your 2000$ suspension
if i had to pick one it would be the mtb (notably an xc or cross country) - since the roadb is creeping into mtb territory visa vie the gravel bike - but it really is heading toward the end goal of mtb (suspension, geometry, braking), so since the mtb is already at the end goalpost, i'll take it - it's fully evolved, and the road and gravel are still catching up.
How about a Full Rigid MTB? with a downsized fork, negative stem and flat bars to lower the cockpit and achieve somewhat of an aero aggressive position.
Being a roadie I bought a MTB for exploring new trails etc and I hated it!!! Too heavy, slow to name a couple of reasons. I will be getting a gravel bike in the near future as like you said It suits my lifestyle better for commuting and the tracks I have locally. Great vlog and comparison 👍
Thanks! Interesting to hear you found the mtb too heavy, I know what you mean - coming from a road bike they can feel very slow! What gravel bike are you looking at?
david arthur my MTB was a cube and it was an solid bike so would be tempted with one of their Nuroad Pro Gravel bike. There’s a good chance I’ll be using the C2W scheme too
Look around for a last season top line hard tail MTB , got one myself and it’s 9kg, so about the weight same as the gravel and with something like Rekon race tyres on its not that much slower and much more versatile for exploring. Had a gravel bike and started to feel limited by its capabilities.
@@Countrystock - I bought the Cube Nu road Pro last October and it is a quality ride, done alot of off road on it and it handles everything i throw at it. The only thing i swapped out was the drop bars as the stock ones were too narrow.
I just bought a gravel bike. My Trek Elite 9.8 mountain bike is starting to show its age but I'm gonna keep the bike for the occasional ride in the woods. For my type of riding I believe a gravel bike is more suited.
Jones, Surly, Salsa, Kona style adv/bikepacking do-it-all bikes with alt style Jones ish h/bars and fast rolling 2.10-2.35 XC tyres. One bike. Loads of disciplines inc week long holidays, ride to work and off road capable.
I have both and over mixed terrain on each bike there isn’t much difference, gravel is slightly faster over a 60k route and is obviously better on flats, however My Xc bike is more comfortable, safer more versatile and capable if I want to deviate off route and explore and the gear range of the XO1 12 speed make life easier.
Hardtail is the one that gets most of a competition from Gravel bike these days. I hear it from salesmen all the time - they ask what bike i'm having and as soon as they hear it's FS XC they say: "awww...if it was hardtail - i'd say it no longer makes sense vs gravel, but with FS - not so sure"... I too feel that hardtails might be replaced by gravel bikes more and more, especially with ones that have some form of fork/damping..
For me, control is best. Difference on gravel/road vs mtb is the handle design and non suspension. The position of hand on gravel makes it harder to control compare to mtb especially on hard turns, mtb is better on that part. I am using bike for commute and sometimes in traffic. I want to be on my break at all times and good for hard turns.
There is plenty of flat terrain, roads, light gravel, dirt roads around me that I ride, and I like to do 70-100km+ rides, Gravel bike would be great around here, but.. Would, for example Canyon lux here, or Cannondale Scalpel full sus bike with 100mm travel be so much slower on the flats with closed suspension for bikepacking, that you would end up ~2h later for a train or sunset? and that much sluggish to totally exclude the possibilty to sometimes go to mountains and singletracks here and there, from time to time? and for this have the second bike?
The problem with gravel bikes is, even if you choose a very gravel biased route, at some point in it there may be even a short section of ruts/holes/roots, and over that few hundred metres you pretty much give away all the time advantage over a 29er, as you have to slow right down. So the main advantage actually lies in the fact that you can maintain better speed on tarmac between offroad sections.... In which case its a road bike.... 🙄 Also, over a few hours riding, the 29er won't smash you up and leave you feeling battered.
Bit difficult to compare in my eyes. Handling of the bike on different surfaces is greatly effected by tire width and tire pressure. Difference between 35 mm at 3.5 bar and 47 mm at 2.1 bar is huge.
Ive been thinking of building up a carbon Chinese hartail mtb frame with a 2 x 12 28/38 drivetrain and lightweight sid forks along with my carbon 1260gram wheels with some 2.00 thunder Burts and flatbars. I could race in gravel races , and stil race many xc races just fine, while having a wider gear ratio than 1 12 system yielding faster top end and slightly lower gearing as well. Seems like a great way to have an all around bike pretty capable in both arenas. I'd only really need to change to say, 2.25 or 2.3 tires to run a littlw lower pressure for some xc courses.
I would say a mountain bike if you plan on riding faster down rougher, steeper surfaces and a gravel bike if you are mostly riding smooth harder packed surfaces.
I think a lightweight 29er hardtail would be a more versatile machine. With pumped up summer tyres and a locked out fork it could handle roads and gravel really well and then you can unlock the fork and lower the pressures to attack something more technical. I think a lot depends on where you live. Here is Spain you can find miles of interconnecting roads and farm tracks that are dry for months at a time and are well suited to a gravel bike. But maybe not so much in West Yorkshire where the hills can be steep, rocky and slippy. But, in general, choice is a good thing 😃
Don't buy an XC bike. The lighter weight seems alluring if you're a weight weenie, but you will face the same problem that a gravel bike tends to have. You will be extremely limited on what you can do. If anything, just get a 130mm fork/115-120mm rear suspension trail bike. It's the best of both worlds.
MTB can do gravel rough gravel and super tough terrain. Gravel Bikes can do gravel and rough gravel then when it comes to super tough terrain eaither the biker falls over 15 feet by hitting a big rock or the tires explodes or worse the bike falls apart and your left looking like the clown in a circus riding on one tire all this is happening while your yelling oh shit! Lol
XC bike all the way. An XC can do everything a gravel does + more. A gravel definitely has its place. But if i had to have 1 bike to rule them all it'd be an XC hardtail.
If you're undecided between MTB and road bike; surely a lightweight XC hard tail MTB 29er ticks all boxes?? Does both jobs in my opinion. Also, high centre of gravity on the gravel bike is a big draw back when hitting the twisty bits.
Maybe but does depend on terrain. I love hardtails but not as much as full sussers for the smooth ride in the rough stuff. I might try and get a 29er so I can do a followup test
@@davidarthur A competent rider will tackle most terrain usually thought be only to be rideable on a full susser. Like to see what see what think of a XC hard tail. How about a timed lap on all three to compare??
My back usually complains after a while on a hardtail! ;) Timed testing would be good but I’m hesitant because there are so many variables with timed testing
So, an mtb is better mtb and a gravel bike is better at gravel. Very enlightening. At least you could include your timing to inject some purpose to this video.
how about on a freaking ugly main road? i just want to ride comfortable on the road since the road here isnt that nice. my ass hurts morst of the time and i always have to look down and up looking for bumps.
I am currently having this debate with my idiotic friends. A mountain bike is better for extreme terrain but a gravel bike Is much more efficient on road so if you want to do a combination of distance in road and off road the a gravel bike is the one. I have a Canyon grail and it’s brilliant on surprisingly rough terrain and very quick on road too. I love it. Much more comfy on the body than a full on road bike too.
Why would you want a gravel bike in a country that has no gravel roads?? I've got, gravel, mountain, fat, city, and vintage bikes, each has its place/time here in Michigan, we have almost as many gravel roads as paved, many MTB trails, I've ridden all the bikes on each, WHY? I found out each bike has it place thats why you always need more bikes.. gravel roads are safer then paved roads so I sold my road bike.. I ride the gravel bike hundereds of miles on snow pack gravel in winter training for MTB..
I own LUX CF SL 7.0 (w Fox 34 SC up front almost downCountry version of MTB) amazing machine for trails and raught terrain, it is realy fast on that kind of terrain. I feel like bike forces me to push and go fast. But it is slow and heavy on gravel specialy on uphills. I am in big dilema if I add Grail AL or CF SL 7.0 for more fast uphill riding or just sell LUX and buy myself topend hardtail.
Gravel bikes are a pointless marketing ploy. I've done "Gravel Rides" on a 22lbs full suspension XC and kept up just fine on the paved and smooth gravel roads, and left the Garvel bikes behind when it got a little rougher. If you look at most of the new gravel bikes being shown off at bike shows they are just turning into XC bikes with drop bars.
Who would have thunk it???? Some of these videos are a bit daft. The whole point of these gravel/all road bikes is to give cyclists the options to get away from paved roads due to them being killing fields. You can go down tow paths, gravel paths, etc. For the majority of people the gravel bike would be most useful
I ride my road bike on gravel that the gravel bikes excel at. So it really seems like it's a bike without a purpose. Put semislicks on a mountain bike and you're better off.
You don't have to spend the first couple of minutes telling us what you are going to do, the video title and the images on screen tells us that. Just get on with it, it is a video, not a written article., you don't need to explain what you are going to do, we can see it.
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I have both a gravel bike and XC MTB. I'd agree with pretty much everything said here. I'd add that I can take my gravel bike downhill on most of what I can do on the XC MTB. The difference is speed and confidence. On the gravel bike the key is to keep the downhill speed really slow and focus like a laser on picking your line through the rough stuff. It's different kind of riding than on the XC bike where I can take the same downhill faster and with more comfort/confidence and not pay quite as much attention to every little rock or bump. Uphills on the gravel bike, I can almost do the same trails as the XC MTB, but not quite. The rougher the trail gets, the more advantage the XC MTB has in general. That said, I spend more time on the gravel bike because I live in an area with lots of only moderately rough desert FWD trails through valleys and hills and the gravel bike is just faster and lighter for long distance rides. Way less fatiguing on all but the roughest trails. But, there are also some pretty epic mountain trails around here too... that's when I turn to the XC MTB most of the time (but not all).
Excellent review! The only thing that keeps me from buying a gravel bike is my 29er hardtail. I use it as my "go anywhere/exploring" bike. I'm not saying it's superior to a gravel bike, but it does fill that role, at least for now! Road, gravel road, single track, and bike path? Check, check, check, and check. Will I buy a gravel bike someday? Probably.
Thanks for putting this video together, I've been going round in circles trying to decide which bike type will be more appropriate,
this has helped me decide, cheers
I agree on this one... i went with my friend on a mountain bike trail.. the downhill was quite terrifying on a gravel bike. The lack of suspension made me tired and you cant go fast.
If you own a really good xc hardtail then that would be the go to bike. Road/gravel/singletrack rock'n'roots does it all. Good video and keeps the debate going!
I have a very good mtb, but I still miss my CX (ok, not gravel) because, as you say, the gravel variety gives you more scope for a ride, I like to have the opportunity to go out with one ride in mind then change and choose to do something different.
I think that with a gravel / cx bike you can improve your riding as it forces you to read the trail and adjust speed, line etc.
I think I recognised some of those trails as well, looks like some stuff I rode during the MADORC a few years back :)
Good video and I totally agree with your points on having both is the best. I have an Orbea Occam trail bike and just bought an Orbea Terra gravel bike a couple of months ago. I love them both for the same reasons you explained. If I could have just one bike I would keep the Occam as I could use it with a skinny tire wheel set as a ‘gravel bike’ as I used to do it before the Terra. But after putting 1000km in the Terra I can say I was totally wrong when I thought that a mountain bike with skinny tires is pretty much the same as a gravel bike. Yes, you can ride an MTB as a gravel bike but riding a gravel is a totally different experience that will even improve you technique if you ride it on single trails. If you can afford having both then just do it you won’t be disappointed.
Very similar reasons though my bikes are a fair bit cheaper! I have a decent but workhorse Gravel bike that I do Club Runs, and mixed rides ie road and gravel/mud depending on time of the year! Which I do from my doorstep.
The MTB is a mid end Full Suspension Trail beastie and is my “Sunday Best” which generally I take to some trails by Car/train and do more intense day out on it. At the moment the Gravel bike is getting all the love!
I’d also agree that there are trails one can do on the Gravel bike but aren’t much fun really, since your having to pick your way around rocks and what not!
Yes I have been spoilt with these two! But they are both going back soon.
A hard tail literally does everything. Not very well in some cases but you don't worry about a mountain bike. You worry about a gravel bike when you're smashing off exposed rocks at speed
Good video. Personally, it all depends on were you ride....If you do a mix of road, and light trails, forestry, etc then the Gravel bike is an excellent choice - and pretty versatile.
If you prefer something more gnarlier, then its the MTB.....even though it's not as good on the road - unless you drive to were you are riding.
Couldn’t agree with you more
Gravel or all road bikes are really for getting significant distances done on mixed road quality between tarmac and gravel. There's a trend to start calling them all road bikes now as for cross country riding they just can't compete with a hard tail mountain bike
Gravel bike where road bikes can’t go, mountain bike where gravel bikes can’t go!?
This is a good summary. Also gravel bikes can go on road more efficiently than MTB’s 👌🏼
@@KOL630 yes and also gravel bikes are more of a work worse. They can be used for urban city commuting, ripping the trails, single track, fire road gravel riding, bike packing, touring....list goes on
@@KOL630 😆
@@brosettastone7520 MTB can do urban city, gravel, rough gravel and super tough terrain.
Gravel Bikes can do urban city, gravel and rough gravel then when it comes to super tough terrain eaither the biker falls over 15 feet by hitting a big rock or the tires explodes or worse the bike falls apart and your left looking like the clown in a circus riding on one tire all this is happening while your yelling oh shit! And the list stops there. Lol
Good video! I sold my gravel bike recently, was just too tricky and uncomfortable on the rides I do (loose rock, splippy forest tree roots) was too much of a compromise, and just wasn't having fun, hitting rocks and feeling the jarring through the frame and wheels, my mechanical sympathy took the better of me - Having spent years on my MTB Full Susser riding to the trails, I am happy to continue doing this - But, was good for the short time owing it, and in this mad era of bike prices, and the "gravel" buzzwords, I made money on selling it :D
I own an S-Works full suspension XC bike, which weighs 9.6kg (lighter than most gravel bikes). It’s comfy, fast and versatile. The hardtail version weighs 7.6kg
Do you commute to work by car?
Nice one! I only have a Gravelbike right now but I can confirm everything you noticed about the Gravelbike. Real rough stuff can be quite terrifying, especially downhill but at a certain point when it gets smoother you start speed tripping rather quickly. Btw, I'd be very interested to see how a Gravelbike would perform against a Hardtail, since I wonder if I should start saving up for one.
A hardtail or even rigid mountain bike would be a good, and possibly fairer, comparison with a gravel bike. I might try and do that in the future
@@davidarthur That would be pretty awesome! Thanks man - that would be very helpful and I'd definitely concider your opinion in this regard when it comes to a purchasing decision. Also, this video is a great reference point for a followup.
For me, I like having both a gravel bike and hardtail XC MTB. It's just fun to have the variety. Sometimes I like just switching them up for the hell of it. I don't really ride trails so technical that the XC can't handle it, but I do get on some that the gravel bike is way out of its element (and my comfort zone). That's when I use the XC MTB most often. Otherwise, I tend to ride the gravel bike more just because it is lighter, snappier handling, and I can put the miles under it faster (assuming the trail is not too horrible).
Thanks for the video! I spent so much time with research and it seemed like the gravel bike is the better mtb. I ride a lot through the forest and thought a gravel bike can do the same and be even better but now I see, that my Hardtail was the right choice.
Currently my only bike is a gravel bike. I will get a Lux, and an aero road bike over the next two or so years. In the mean time, 650b wheels with 47c WTB Senderos do rather well on the trail, depending on how hard/long you want to push it, and 28c Conti 5000 TLR's keep Pace with my roadie pals on pave. Does it rule them all, no, but it can stretch a fair bit in any direction you have the resolve to push. Nice vid!
Thanks! Agree one gravel bike can do so much you don’t really ‘need’ any other bikes. But more bikes is always good :)
Fantastic review and explanation. I ride both bikes roughly 100km a week each. Just one addition, coming from mountain biking I actually enjoy riding the gravel bike on rough single tracks and enjoy the excitement. It feels fresh that the bike has a limit and that this limit is easy reachable on single trail declines that are laughable on the mountain bike. Please understand just as an addition for fellow mountain biker not as a criticism for what you said. 😊
Thanks for sharing!
Your advice is of course for those that ride a bike for speed, but some of us prefer comfort and stability
I would keep the mtb with the grail's tires, that would make a perfect combo. Excellent video.Thanks.
Gravel bike is only for travel adventures on smooth contry roads, when paved roads aren't an option.. single tracks, technical stuff, obstacles and mud.. are way better and more enjoyable on the mountain bike. Nice video tks for producinig it! ;)
Your analysis is spot on! I’m having a mix decision choosing one for the Leadville 100 mtb so I’m debating either hacking the gravel with a 40mm fork or putting on a compact aero bar on the mtb. You input will be greatly appreciated ;)
This is probably the most helpful video ive watched. I was torn between the grail and the nueron for my commute to work which can be all road or 50/50 depending on which route I want to take. I definitely think the grail will be the better choice especially with the 600ft of climbing on the way home from work lol
Not sure if It’s fair to compare a full suspension XC bike with a no suspension Gravel bike . But watching this certainly helped me make up my mind . As I live in B.C. a gravel bike has limited use unless one is bike touring . As off-road XC here is mostly single track . So instead of buying another bike , I’ll put that money into tricking out my base model Epic Comp .
The struggle is real... so buy both... I did... well road and MTB at least. I have a Tarmac Expert SL6 and a Stumpjumper Expert 27.5... love being able to ride any dirt and any road. Provides endless possibilities, and is quite a joy:-)
The perfect two bike setup by the sounds of it :)
Hi David! If you give 10 out of 10 points to the Canyon Lux for off-road performance, how much would you give to the Grail? And my real question is, how much would you give to the OPEN WI.DE? Does it stand closer to the Grail and it is just slightly better than the Grail or is it really closer to a MTB?
It really depends on the terrain! On mtb trails the Grail just can't keep up, but on mild trails the gap is much narrower. It really comes down to how challenging the trails are and how much you want to challenge yourself by riding them at high speed. The Open Wide I rode with fat 650b tyres is impressively comfortable and better when riding mainly off-road bumpy trails than the Grail, which is really built for speed on smoother gravel
@@davidarthur Thanks for your reply David! I hoped that the WIDE is better on bumpy trails than the Grail, but by how much? Right now I have a 3T Exploro, which with 650b wheels and 2.0" tires I did not find comfortably enough on bumpy roads. In fact it is many times scary... Would it make the upgrade worth for WIDE's 2.4" tires? Not a cheap one, that's why I am hesitating... My 29er Specialized Epic has 2.3" tires, so if that is good enough will the WIDE be OK?
Just getting into biking and I'm torn, because I don't really know what surface I'll like most. I feel like the MTB looks way more fun off-road even when there's only a few small roots. But I also want to commute on a bike around 5 miles.. so maybe I need a gravel bike. I don't know... tough decision, luckily they are both out of stock everywhere for now so I might go and check out some trails on foot to decide.
Dude this is the exact same problem I have been having! I want to be able to ride on the road like a road bike but I also want to be able to do proper downhill trails too... So annoying haha, If bikes weren't so expensive I could get 2 but, they are.
I drove the Blackadder teambike from Bulls with top gear for 7 years and just ordered the grail cf. Can't wait to experience the gravelbike.
To get the very low gears on the Grail, suggest you look into fitting the (unsupported) 11-42 cassette, if you are willing to avoid crosschaining the small chainring with the smaller cogs. I have ordered a 2X GRX gravel bike (the Norco XR C3), and will be doing just that. A bike shop told me they are actually selling bikes like that.
That's an interesting bit of insight, thanks for sharing, will have to try that
@@davidarthur I'd be very interested in your experience. I've had a bit of a setback, and won't be able to have a test ride for a couple of weeks at minimum - had a bad fall off my MTB and have to rest up. 🤪
Just btw, even if you do crosschain, I don't think the chain necessarily falls off straight away - I saw a comment from someone who said it "just works", as if they were ignorant of the risk.
Ouch heal up quick!
@@davidarthur thanks! Btw, I can't seem to see shift indicators on the hoods. Are there any? If not, I'm cancelling my order. Even without the crosschaining issue, I love shift indicators.
EDIT: no shift indicators, and I have cancelled my order. I know there is probably a way to tack something on, but I was on the fence as to whether I needed a new bike, and this little hiccup has swayed me the other way. I'll keep two bikes - road & MTB, and will now investigate bike storage options, to free up space at home.
Oh that's a shame! Shimano does offer optional optical gear indicators on its Tiagra, Claris and Sora shifters though bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technologies/component/details/optical-gear-display.html
Gravel vs xc mountain bike is an interesting question and think gravel bikes are mainly for roadies who like going fast on a mixture of terrain. I currently own a gravel bike a Revolt Advanced 0 and love it to bits and rarely ride my road bike these days but am quickly discovering the limitations of gravel bikes when the trails get rough and technical so if you already own a mountain bike and aren't interested in going fast on roads then the mountain bike is all you really need plus in reality there isn't much difference between a gravel bike and a xc hardtail other than the handle bar, gearing and tyres.
Excellent video! I had a feeling your conclusions would match my expectations.
What I’m seriously looking for is lightweight, 17 pounds racing cross country bike, all in with top-of-the-line equipment. To be used as a gravel bike a mountain bike and do something crazy like the dirty Kanza. I’m tempted to put all money into one bike rather than splitting money into two, because 17 pounds is mighty expensive. I’ll need that to go up Road to the sun in glacier national Park
What did you decide?
This is a test on a short ride, 30K Would like to see if you did a test with is 300K. I think for bike packing ( what I intent to do this summer) A gravel bike is the way to go. You left out the comfort aspect, riding for days is not what you want to do with a mountainbike right? A graves bike has more comfort, witch is essential for me for longer rides.
Post-lockdown that would be a good test
How much do you spin out on the mtb when your on the road please I really can’t make up my mind what I would like and to me it’s all about spinning out which I like I might do on the mtb with such a small front chainring ?
I have both but if I must have one it would be the gravel bike because you can go (almost... ) even on the most difficult trails that are meat for MTB, just more carefully or walk the impossible bits. To get to any place just by car is a commitment and if you ride to the trail on a MTB you get exausted before hitting the trails. So more flexibility and more time riding than actually driving would make me choose the gravel bike
99% of bike owners don't compete and a second here or there is an irrelevance.
I have both. A older gravel bike with a bit more tire clearance and road gearing. And a XC hardtail. I mainly use the gravel bike. The mtb is my winter bike and for when I want to switch things up.
Gravel Bike = Ride long over everything and just be free
MTB = Plan how to bring you bike somewhere to have much fun like snowboarding and go home after and clean your 2000$ suspension
if i had to pick one it would be the mtb (notably an xc or cross country) - since the roadb is creeping into mtb territory visa vie the gravel bike - but it really is heading toward the end goal of mtb (suspension, geometry, braking), so since the mtb is already at the end goalpost, i'll take it - it's fully evolved, and the road and gravel are still catching up.
How would the Dual Sport 4 be in comparison with Gravel / Mountain?
How about a Full Rigid MTB? with a downsized fork, negative stem and flat bars to lower the cockpit and achieve somewhat of an aero aggressive position.
Being a roadie I bought a MTB for exploring new trails etc and I hated it!!! Too heavy, slow to name a couple of reasons. I will be getting a gravel bike in the near future as like you said It suits my lifestyle better for commuting and the tracks I have locally. Great vlog and comparison 👍
Thanks! Interesting to hear you found the mtb too heavy, I know what you mean - coming from a road bike they can feel very slow! What gravel bike are you looking at?
david arthur my MTB was a cube and it was an solid bike so would be tempted with one of their Nuroad Pro Gravel bike. There’s a good chance I’ll be using the C2W scheme too
Look around for a last season top line hard tail MTB , got one myself and it’s 9kg, so about the weight same as the gravel and with something like Rekon race tyres on its not that much slower and much more versatile for exploring. Had a gravel bike and started to feel limited by its capabilities.
@@Countrystock - I bought the Cube Nu road Pro last October and it is a quality ride, done alot of off road on it and it handles everything i throw at it. The only thing i swapped out was the drop bars as the stock ones were too narrow.
@@ronaldomac566 Thx for that it great to hear from an owner of one. 👍
I just bought a gravel bike. My Trek Elite 9.8 mountain bike is starting to show its age but I'm gonna keep the bike for the occasional ride in the woods. For my type of riding I believe a gravel bike is more suited.
Jones, Surly, Salsa, Kona style adv/bikepacking do-it-all bikes with alt style Jones ish h/bars and fast rolling 2.10-2.35 XC tyres.
One bike.
Loads of disciplines inc week long holidays, ride to work and off road capable.
I have both and over mixed terrain on each bike there isn’t much difference, gravel is slightly faster over a 60k route and is obviously better on flats, however My Xc bike is more comfortable, safer more versatile and capable if I want to deviate off route and explore and the gear range of the XO1 12 speed make life easier.
Hardtail is the one that gets most of a competition from Gravel bike these days. I hear it from salesmen all the time - they ask what bike i'm having and as soon as they hear it's FS XC they say: "awww...if it was hardtail - i'd say it no longer makes sense vs gravel, but with FS - not so sure"... I too feel that hardtails might be replaced by gravel bikes more and more, especially with ones that have some form of fork/damping..
For me, control is best. Difference on gravel/road vs mtb is the handle design and non suspension. The position of hand on gravel makes it harder to control compare to mtb especially on hard turns, mtb is better on that part. I am using bike for commute and sometimes in traffic. I want to be on my break at all times and good for hard turns.
There is plenty of flat terrain, roads, light gravel, dirt roads around me that I ride, and I like to do 70-100km+ rides, Gravel bike would be great around here, but.. Would, for example Canyon lux here, or Cannondale Scalpel full sus bike with 100mm travel be so much slower on the flats with closed suspension for bikepacking, that you would end up ~2h later for a train or sunset? and that much sluggish to totally exclude the possibilty to sometimes go to mountains and singletracks here and there, from time to time? and for this have the second bike?
My thought suspension is must for rough terrain and a flat bar is more suitable for off road riding all days.. Suit me the best for my riding style..
I live in NYC which bike is suited for city streets, gravel or mountain bikes? Thanks
The gravel bike would probably suit you best
Hey do you know the handlebar diameter from the lux? Is it 31.8 mm? And the steam diameter🤔
Yes it’s a 31.8 bar and stem
The problem with gravel bikes is, even if you choose a very gravel biased route, at some point in it there may be even a short section of ruts/holes/roots, and over that few hundred metres you pretty much give away all the time advantage over a 29er, as you have to slow right down. So the main advantage actually lies in the fact that you can maintain better speed on tarmac between offroad sections.... In which case its a road bike.... 🙄 Also, over a few hours riding, the 29er won't smash you up and leave you feeling battered.
What if you tried wider 650b tires on the gravel bike. That's usually what is recommended for the rougher stuff. Might be closer to the MTB.
Bit difficult to compare in my eyes. Handling of the bike on different surfaces is greatly effected by tire width and tire pressure. Difference between 35 mm at 3.5 bar and 47 mm at 2.1 bar is huge.
A gentleman needs both the xc bike and the gravel bike
Correct answer.
Nordic gentleman needs also a fatbike for winter
Both nice bikes! Like you, I'd go both for the quiver! (Valla, Australia).
Great review and mirrors my experience.
As always, the answer boils down to; what do you need/want to use it for?
Do you have a link to this route at all?
i'll go for grail mostly for commuting and some bumpy road
What about confort posture on each? (Arms, back, neck, wrist)? Thx
That’s a great question. I think drop bars do offer more alternative position options over a mountain bike, but a mtb does have higher handlebars
Is that a L or M frame size for the Grail ? I’m about to buy on but i’m lost with sizes ..
It's a M. Sizing is tricky without trying before you buy. I'm 5'11" if that helps at all?
david arthur I’m 186 and 87 inner leg lengh .. so I think a L would be fine but I’m not sure ..
Yes does sound like the L would be a better fit
Can the handle bars be raised?
Ive been thinking of building up a carbon Chinese hartail mtb frame with a 2 x 12 28/38 drivetrain and lightweight sid forks along with my carbon 1260gram wheels with some 2.00 thunder Burts and flatbars. I could race in gravel races , and stil race many xc races just fine, while having a wider gear ratio than 1 12 system yielding faster top end and slightly lower gearing as well. Seems like a great way to have an all around bike pretty capable in both arenas. I'd only really need to change to say, 2.25 or 2.3 tires to run a littlw lower pressure for some xc courses.
I would say a mountain bike if you plan on riding faster down rougher, steeper surfaces and a gravel bike if you are mostly riding smooth harder packed surfaces.
I think a lightweight 29er hardtail would be a more versatile machine. With pumped up summer tyres and a locked out fork it could handle roads and gravel really well and then you can unlock the fork and lower the pressures to attack something more technical.
I think a lot depends on where you live. Here is Spain you can find miles of interconnecting roads and farm tracks that are dry for months at a time and are well suited to a gravel bike. But maybe not so much in West Yorkshire where the hills can be steep, rocky and slippy.
But, in general, choice is a good thing 😃
Thanks for the great content.
Don't buy an XC bike. The lighter weight seems alluring if you're a weight weenie, but you will face the same problem that a gravel bike tends to have. You will be extremely limited on what you can do.
If anything, just get a 130mm fork/115-120mm rear suspension trail bike. It's the best of both worlds.
My girlfriend saw me looking at those bikes.
Could you review the Canyon Exceed in comparison to the lux?
If I can get Canyon to send me one for review, yes :)
MTB can do gravel rough gravel and super tough terrain.
Gravel Bikes can do gravel and rough gravel then when it comes to super tough terrain eaither the biker falls over 15 feet by hitting a big rock or the tires explodes or worse the bike falls apart and your left looking like the clown in a circus riding on one tire all this is happening while your yelling oh shit! Lol
XC bike all the way. An XC can do everything a gravel does + more. A gravel definitely has its place. But if i had to have 1 bike to rule them all it'd be an XC hardtail.
If you're undecided between MTB and road bike; surely a lightweight XC hard tail MTB 29er ticks all boxes?? Does both jobs in my opinion. Also, high centre of gravity on the gravel bike is a big draw back when hitting the twisty bits.
Maybe but does depend on terrain. I love hardtails but not as much as full sussers for the smooth ride in the rough stuff. I might try and get a 29er so I can do a followup test
@@davidarthur A competent rider will tackle most terrain usually thought be only to be rideable on a full susser. Like to see what see what think of a XC hard tail. How about a timed lap on all three to compare??
My back usually complains after a while on a hardtail! ;) Timed testing would be good but I’m hesitant because there are so many variables with timed testing
So, an mtb is better mtb and a gravel bike is better at gravel. Very enlightening. At least you could include your timing to inject some purpose to this video.
and i am gonna hit the sub button just because i listened to some good english!
why not compare with a hard tail. makes more sense
Didn’t have a hardtail to hand. And wanted to test the best from each category, and I prefer full suss mountain bikes
how about on a freaking ugly main road? i just want to ride comfortable on the road since the road here isnt that nice. my ass hurts morst of the time and i always have to look down and up looking for bumps.
I am currently having this debate with my idiotic friends. A mountain bike is better for extreme terrain but a gravel bike Is much more efficient on road so if you want to do a combination of distance in road and off road the a gravel bike is the one. I have a Canyon grail and it’s brilliant on surprisingly rough terrain and very quick on road too. I love it. Much more comfy on the body than a full on road bike too.
Whatever you like big fat tyres do the job!
Want an even harder choice? HT MTB with both a suspension fork and full carbon rigid fork. This is what I would go for.
On this terrain it would be mountain bike all the way. I am getting pains in my hands just thinking about riding this on a gravel bike.
The Grail 😃
Perfect review. I agree based on my extensive scientific testing.
Why would you want a gravel bike in a country that has no gravel roads?? I've got, gravel, mountain, fat, city, and vintage bikes, each has its place/time here in Michigan, we have almost as many gravel roads as paved, many MTB trails, I've ridden all the bikes on each, WHY? I found out each bike has it place thats why you always need more bikes.. gravel roads are safer then paved roads so I sold my road bike.. I ride the gravel bike hundereds of miles on snow pack gravel in winter training for MTB..
29er xc MTB is the best
I own LUX CF SL 7.0 (w Fox 34 SC up front almost downCountry version of MTB) amazing machine for trails and raught terrain, it is realy fast on that kind of terrain. I feel like bike forces me to push and go fast. But it is slow and heavy on gravel specialy on uphills. I am in big dilema if I add Grail AL or CF SL 7.0 for more fast uphill riding or just sell LUX and buy myself topend hardtail.
Btw I like your test and that you are riding bouth bikes on same trails.
Awesome thanks appreciate it!
A Grail AL could be a good companion to your Lux? I rode it and was very impressed - if probably buy it over the carbon Grail if I’m being honest
@@davidarthur Thanks mate appreciate your help. Maybe any reson why al over SL 7.0
Price mainly, but if money is no object and you’re not put off by the handlebars, it’s an awesome bike
Gravel bikes are a pointless marketing ploy. I've done "Gravel Rides" on a 22lbs full suspension XC and kept up just fine on the paved and smooth gravel roads, and left the Garvel bikes behind when it got a little rougher. If you look at most of the new gravel bikes being shown off at bike shows they are just turning into XC bikes with drop bars.
so mtn bike is better on mtn bike trails and gravel bike is better on gravel roads.
Who would have thunk it????
Some of these videos are a bit daft. The whole point of these gravel/all road bikes is to give cyclists the options to get away from paved roads due to them being killing fields. You can go down tow paths, gravel paths, etc. For the majority of people the gravel bike would be most useful
Wich one would you choose ? Before Brexit = Gravel. After Brexit = MTB...
Or get a Hardtail and get 2 bikes in one.
thats a 2x on the Grail
Glad I don’t have to make that decision I have both and love them both
mtb with a drop bar is better
Mtb is better super bounce..
If You want summary and fast answer: 11:07
I ride my road bike on gravel that the gravel bikes excel at. So it really seems like it's a bike without a purpose. Put semislicks on a mountain bike and you're better off.
You don't have to spend the first couple of minutes telling us what you are going to do, the video title and the images on screen tells us that.
Just get on with it, it is a video, not a written article., you don't need to explain what you are going to do, we can see it.
Now do a gravel bike with MTB tyres and an MTB with gravel tyres.
If I can only have 1 bike, it’ll be gravel... but not a Grail
The Grail isn't everyone's cup of tea!
david arthur I just can’t use the bar. I use my gravel bike for some bikepacking races and that bar wouldn’t fit aero bars
Yes it does have its drawbacks for sure. That and all your mates take the micky!!
So the solutions is: get a specific bike for a specific tour.