It hurts and warms my heart to listen to you and your sibling. My older sisters joined my abuser and went from being my greatest confidantes to people I haven't spoken to in almost two years. Especially as a trans person I wish I could have what you and your sibling have.
@@ExFundieDiaries its okay! I've made peace with it as much as I can, and I'm much happier without them in my life. Your videos are amazing and have opened a door to healing for me, and I love seeing the videos with your sibling. I also have 4 other siblings so in the future I'm hopeful I can have a good relationship with them.
this sounds like my experience too tbh, i would like for them to stop following my mother and father's rule and be able to be around them more but it's too hard
@@mikaelamonsterland I know it's hard and I wish they could see how much it hurts us. The fact is you should be proud of yourself, being distanced from family is soul crushing sometimes but so necessary. You should be proud that you're protecting yourself even when it's hard.
Elly just lights up when they talk with Annie, and the love, respect and affection between the two siblings is palpable! both are so compassionate towards each other! for Annie to be able to see how Elly never had the luxury of rebellion shows so much empathy! and for Elly to be able to acknowledge how her sibling must have felt in various scenarios described, is such a demonstration to us all of how healthy, responsible communication about our own part in the past can truly heal the present and the future!
The forceful tickling reminded me of something. When I was a child, my dad did the same. I hated it. I told him to stop everytime. One time I was screaming and crying to get him to stop and he did eventually. But as soon as I got up, I threw up all over the rug. Man tickled me so hard I puked.
I was the oldest of 10 in a homeschool family. I was also seen as the "rebellious" one because if I thought something was unfair, I would speak up. Merely asking questions about why Mom or Dad did something was considered rebellious, I guess. After I was in my 20s, I finally began to see some of the abuses of my family's situation. After some futile attempts at reform, I ended up moving out (at the age of 26). This was seen as PROOF that I was selfish, rebellious, demon-filled, ungrateful, proud, etc., etc. I've had very little contact with my other siblings, and none that wasn't filtered through Mom and Dad for the past 5 years now. Until just recently, that is... my brother (the next oldest) fell in love with a young lady and was trying to navigate our parents' courtship standards as obediently as possible. However, my parents kept finding fault with them, for one reason or another. For example, the four of them were all on a walk one day. My brother and his gf weren't paying attention, and walked some distance ahead, though still well within view of my parents. He was accused of "rebelling" and "sneaking off". This was not an isolated instance either. During this drama, he realized that the way Mom and Dad were treating him was exactly the same as they treated me. So he began re-reading some of the email correspondence from around the time I left, and realized that I had not only done nothing wrong, but I was making valid points. So he contacted me again to tell me that he understood my situation before, and was moving out as well. It's funny that you mentioned that you and your sister didn't have beds to sleep in for a long time. In our house, we had a boys' bedroom and a girls' bedroom. At some point (I don't remember if it was for fun, or if it was maybe due to thunderstorms or who-knows-what), all of us decided to camp out in the living room one night. We spread all our pillows and blankets all over the floor, 2 of the girls took the couches, and we just had a big campout in the living room. Well, the next night, we decided to camp out again, cuz why not. It turned into a permanent thing... we just slept in the living room, despite the fact that we had perfectly good beds in our bedrooms. Now, as a young adult male (I was already in my 20s at the time), I found it really embarrassing when I would wake up with... standard young adult male issues. There were sisters in the room too young to understand. Somehow I'd have to get out of bed and walk across the house to my room to change, without anyone noticing. I don't know if anyone ever did notice, but I found it embarrassing and difficult nonetheless. After a while, I asked why we didn't sleep in our beds anymore; I don't remember the reply, but the other kids wanted to keep camping out, and the social pressure won in the end. Finally, summertime came around, and it became unbearably hot and humid in the living room. The house had no central air, but the kids bedrooms were in the basement where it was much cooler. I pushed a little harder this time to go back to sleeping in our beds. Mom and Dad took me aside and made it very clear that they wanted us all to keep sleeping in the living room for "accountability". They didn't say it in so many words, but they thought that I wanted to go back downstairs so that I could have the privacy to masturbate at night. Or at least they used the implication as leverage to shut me up, because I couldn't thereafter keep pushing to sleep downstairs without looking like I had ulterior motives. I hated it. The further I get from the whole situation, the more messed up it looks in hindsight.
When I hear Ellie talk about needing to know the rules and follow the rules, I resonate so much with that. As an autistic person, I feel a very strong sense of right and wrong. I remember being very upset when my friends and even my older sister had premarital sex. I was very bothered and worried about their soul. I wasn’t in IBLP but Southern Baptist. As I got older, and deconstructed my religion I felt so at a loss knowing there is no cosmic equation to follow to go to heaven. I felt so disturbed and unmoored. Realizing there was no authority, that I had full authority over my life, that felt dangerous. It felt like a step into the unknown. I had very inflexible thinking and I have grown that m, as well as working on feeling confident in my instincts, trusting my own decisions and feel okay about that, not feel like I am desperately searching for life rules to follow! I really connect to Ellie. As a kid I couldn’t believe my older sister dare disobey our parents. I was often a tattle tale. My partner was a rebellious teen, and I can’t believe walking out of the house or breaking curfew.
I’m struggling with much the same these past few years at age 50, as someone who is also on the autistic spectrum, non-binary, and grew up in a rural and hyperconservative Evangelical Fundamentalist community…as well as being the first born and all the added responsibilities that go along with such. There was so much abuse and trauma growing up within that community, especially the years of unending severe bullying in school (by numerous peers and teachers), but the religious trauma was by far the worst and has had the greatest devastation on my life as an adult as well as on my physical and mental health (both of which collapsed at age 18 leaving me permanently disabled as a consequence of so many years of abuse and extreme stress). I have never been capable of a relationship nor have I ever been able to date because of the shame and terror the church employed around sexual purity (associating any sexual thought, desire, or attraction with being equal to raping a woman…so sexuality and rape are two concepts forever linked together for me)…reinforced all the more by the fact that my only sexual experience comes from being raped by a close female friend (while I was dissociated), which only adds to all that mess and confusion, then for good measure throw in a God that we were indoctrinated with that, quite frankly, makes the devil look like an angel (and a far better option?) by comparison. But like you, I have never been able to break rules, not even when the consequences for doing so would otherwise be trivial as I feel bound by such rules. Not that breaking curfew or sneaking out would have done me much good anyhow as a teen given that I had no friends and I was the most hated student in my school simply because others saw me as “different” and an “outsider”, so I would have just been sneaking out to the middle of nowhere to be alone by myself in the middle of nowhere and I could do that just as effectively at home in a far more comfortable bed…lol. I am only three years into therapy trying to process all the past childhood and early adult trauma and it, frankly, feels like I’ll be spending the rest of my natural life in therapy trying to undo all the damage others have caused. I have real doubts about whether a (romantic) relationship will ever even be a possibility in this life (as much as I may desire such, but even having that desire feels selfish given reality) since I not only come across to women as extremely asexual (I’m not, but I can’t attach sexual desires to another real life person due to the terror associated with the triggered memories and the Church’s programmed association of sexuality with rape) and the fact that I never had the opportunity to even learn how dating, relationships, and sexuality are supposed to work/function together nor did I ever have the opportunity to learn the many innate nonverbal cues and communications associated with each…and at my age women already expect men to not only know but to have mastered all of those concepts…then add in disability, severely limiting chronic illnesses (due to the trauma) and mental illness (namely complex PTSD, DID, dissociation, and major depression) and I have never encountered anyone even remotely attracted to me. I have tried to date numerous times over the years, but I have always wound up the “best best-friend, ever” as women can not see me as anything more than a very close friend…which has always hurt, but it always plays out the same way and has for more than 30 years since I have no ability to flirt or interact with others from a place of sexuality (nor does it help that everything about sexuality, especially seeing others in a sexual light, feels so very wrong and inconsiderate without their prior permission to see them in that way). I have had to learn that no matter how deeply I may love a woman that women will never be capable of loving me in return, only of liking me because I am simply not someone that women can feel anything more for (when it comes to trying to date in the past I have had a great many “not interested” and “no” responses, including among very close friends, but I have never had even one “yes” in more than 30 years nor have any women ever asked me out, so I have never had a first date with anyone). I really wish that our churches and schools were both held accountable for what is nothing less than child abuse, and, in the case of the church, psychosexual child abuse that has been found to carry the exact same trauma as child rape due to the way they employ our own developing sexuality against us at puberty forcing us to reject and repress our innate sexuality at all cost while labeling us “rapists”, or any other “degenerate” term, if we ever so much as experience a sexual thought or feeling prior to marriage - all throughout puberty no less! They really deserve to be properly prosecuted for mass child abuse and forced to stop this abuse once and for all rather than continue on abusing our children the way they have for decades now! It absolutely boggles my mind that so many people are seemingly ok with defending the right of Churches to openly abuse our children without consequence.
This made me cry. The sister that I survived a cult with, that was my best friend when I was a teenager, that I survived brutal and potentially fatal abuse with, I haven't talked to in almost 6 months. I cut her out because she had become blatantly abusive also. But I feel like a piece of me is missing. We had plans to do things together. She had bought expensive fabric to make a quilt for me. She is the only one who was in the trenches with me, though as someone almost 9 years older, she definitely experienced it differently. But also she hasn't done (isn't ready to do?) the work of understanding how abuse works, how our family worked, that it was catastrophically worse than any of us realized in the middle of it. She blames me for so much of what our parents did. I am so glad that you both have a great relationship, that you've both worked hard to understand what happened to you. I hope maybe I can have that someday, too.
so about swearing, before I got comfy with swearing I remember having really big feelings, and really big emotions, but I didn't have the words to express them. and because I was physically punished, but not given the words to express feelings, they came out physically instead, often with violence, either self directed or at others. Swearing, I see as genuinely healthy and necessary, because it gives kids the words the express their big feelings, so they don't resort to hitting, throwing, or other kinds of violence. If I ever have kids I will teach them to swear when they get overwhelmed (in appropriate situations), and if they have too, to scream into something, or hit a pillow, because big feelings need to come out somehow.
I love any content you do with your sibling. As someone who grew up with an older sibling about Elly's age, I really connect with the two of you and your bond. I'm so glad you've been able to forage a new relationship as adults together.
I used to work at a horse stable that was owned by a VERY conservative, Christian fundie family. Their oldest daughter was learning how to play the piano. I thought she would like to listen to my CD of the musical score from the movie, "The Horse Whisperer" by Thomas Newman as it has a lot of piano in it, and is very beautiful. (Some of the most beautiful pieces of music are musical scores from motion pictures, in my opinion.) I brought it to the stables and she listened to it a few times and absolutely LOVED it. She mentioned that she wanted to copy it but her mom told her that was completely out of the question because that is illegal. She went on to say that "God wants us to obey ALL Laws." They were homeschooled as well and went to a "Co-op." I fed the boarder's horses many a time because they were doing Co-op and running late. I worked there from 2007 to 2013. I was a Christian too, but by 2013, I was at my wit's end at hearing their extremest views. Especially their belief that God chose everyone who believes in Him, and made everyone who rejects Him specifically to burn in Hell. I saw a newspaper article that said that Truck Drivers are in short supply and if you have a CDL, you can get a job nearly anywhere. I thought, "that's my way out!" I made an appointment at a local CDL school to enroll at the beginning of May. I told the Stable owner and she insisted that I stay until the school year ended at the end of June. Reluctantly, I did. I started CDL training in early July and haven't been happier. It was tough learning to drive a commercial truck, but it was the best decision I've ever made. I haven't talked to them since.
@@katattack907 Thanks! Yes, it was VERY tough learning to drive a commercial truck, but it was the BEST decision I've ever made. I drove for a few different companies, but now I drive for Sherwin Williams with a 48 foot trailer equipped with a lift gate. I deliver paint and other supplies to the stores at night with nobody else around. It's the best working conditions I've ever had. I absolutely love it! I'm home every day too! I have no idea how that Fundie horse stable family is doing now, and I don't care. I escaped that nonsense. I wish you the best too.
I really admire the self reflection and self compassion that you two are engaging in. It gives me a lot of hope in developing those skills for myself. I want to tell you that your videos have aided in my healing, and have helped me find language to describe my experiences. Thanks, Elly, and I can't wait to watch Annie's channel too.
If it makes you feel any better - kids are amazing at psychological torture. I didn’t grow up in a fundie family at all (we were super liberal/leftist), but I also had to share a room with my younger sibling and didn’t respect their space at all. I would write down or record what she was saying without permission all the time! I also did the thing where I would scoop & dump all her mess onto her side of the room only to have her throw it back at me. I have a list of nasty pranks I’d pull on her, thankfully none of them turned out to be dangerous! Thanks for the relatable introspection.
This was so relatable to listen to. I'm the oldest, five year age gap between my sibling and I, and the position I was put in as the oldest had much the same effect on me as you seem to have experienced. I wasn't allowed to have feelings, in many ways, because negative feelings relating to my sibling were always painted as me being selfish or acting like a brat. As we got older I was forced to include my sibling, and it made my friends not want to come to my house. I rarely had friends over, but often ran to their houses at every opportunity, just to get an escape. There was also a very big difference in what rules were enforced and how strictly they were enforced on me vs my sibling, so a lot of the effects and trauma of that that I'm still working through, my sibling doesn't understand or sympathize with because they don't see why I have the hang ups that I do, when they seemingly steamrolled through them. It's made things very difficult when we're forced to be in close quarters for any length of time.
It is always interesting to me how siblings can grow-up in the same house and process their experience in different ways. I know there are a lot of factors that play in to it like birth order, gender, and environment. Those diverse perspectives make for great conversation points as adults and can provide clarity and closure in some situations. Great video!
As a homeschooled fundie the videos of you playing outside made me sob and made me remember things I haven’t in years. So many of those things are lost to me in my mind. Hidden. And now I got to remember, they were beautiful memories to me too. Thank you
@@someonerandom256 well we all know that D&D turns everyone into satanic cannibals that eat children! She should be rightly scared of what that game is doing to you! /S
I'll also point out that if the high-fantasy genre doesn't suit you, there are plenty of other tabletop RPGs that fill the same imagination/improv niche while exploring other genres. Some of my personal favorites are Monster of the Week, which has a sort of Scooby Doo/X-Files vibe, and Lancer, which is a crunchy sci-fi game about mechas and AI.
"Did I swear around you? Thqt was very bold of me" Annie, I'm really sorry that I laughed so hard at that. Guffawed, even. But only because I understand all too well 💖🤗
Wow this is SO much like my relationship with my next sibling. I'm the oldest of 8 and we had a MASSIVE rivalry for so many of the reasons you had. I had no idea anyone else was experiencing this dysfunction with their siblings and wow i just feel so seen.
Seriously, Ellie, thanks for continually sharing. My parents are catholic fundies so my upbringing was somewhat different, but really only in the technical religious aspects.
Your videos have been very healing for me to watch. I feel like it is rare to see my experiences reflected in others, even other ex-fundies. I also appreciate how you own and name your past behaviors and apologize. I know it’s very hard to recognize and admit to doing stuff you weren’t proud of. Me and my siblings could have made a lot of this video. The exception was 1) I wasn’t homeschooled, but I did got to a Christian private school and was heavily isolated and immersed in fundagelical culture 2) my parents were divorced so I didn’t get to have much of a relationship with my younger siblings from my moms second marriage, but I was still parentified, asked to “babysit,” asked to enforce discipline, and expected to have a relationship with these kids that I essentially had no bond with due to partial custody arrangement. There was also an element of competition for affection because we were emotionally neglected due to how big our family was and the intersections of poverty, mental illness, domestic abuse, etc. that is a LOT on a family.
I relate to the two of you so much as someone who was homeschooled and raised in fundamentalism. My sister is 4 years older and I see a lot of us in your relationship growing up. My sister and I are close now but what is lacking is her support of me leaving religion and "rebelling". I was never supported in leaving by my immediate family. So in Elly's words towards Annie, I can view them as that supportive big sister.
Your relationship reminds me of my sister and me. I am 5 years older and very much felt the pressure to be a good example and be a third parent and it made me into a perfectionist. She rebelled a lot when she hit her teen years and I was an older teen and I did all kinds of things to her over that including tell my parents on her. There was fear there for sure because of the religious stuff. But looking back on it, I realize there was so much jealousy. She was doing things I wanted to do and rebelling in ways I wanted to but I didn't have the courage to and I envied her so much for having the courage I didn't have.
It was really refreshing hearing both of you thinking though and processing how you both treated each other when you were younger and seeing that light bulb go off and go “oh, wait, no I shouldn’t have treated you like that I’m sorry.” I feel like that often doesn’t happen with relationships and I admire you both for being so vulnerable and open with each other and with your followers. It also breaks my heart how much guilt we all hold about things we did as kids when we truly just didn’t know any better. I just remind myself that I didn’t have the tools that I have now back then and can be better going forward.
I don't know how this video came up in my recommends but I am so glad it did. I was raised in a fairly abusive fundie home and it had the effect of breaking us apart. There was only my brother and I, and I love him dearly but he has moved far away and we only speak infrequently. I was favored over him and the guilt I feel is tremendous. I really loved this discussion, I love how you speak to each other with respect and kindness, it warms my heart. I am so sorry for what you went through as children, I think you have a lot of courage to speak about it in the public. I think channels like this are really important. Thank you.
Love when y’all do videos together CANT WAIT for their channel. I’m so glad I have the privilege of learning your life stories and that you’re both open to share them with us. Such a unique look at lives a lot of us even from Christian households (did nothing for me lol) but how it truly is for y’all when y’all grew up. So proud of you both and your progress you’ve both made to get away and get to a happier healthier place in life. 💖
This is absolutely fascinating. I applaud and appreciate you both for your transparency and willingness to share your experiences. I am more likely closer to your parents’ age but I have just in the last year or so begun the deconstruction process…along with my husband. We have homeschooled 4 boys and I am still processing the guilt I feel for the things they missed out on. We have been honest with our sons and have MUCH better relationships with them. We have apologized for much of their upbringing. I don’t think there is anything we can do to fully make up for the damage we caused but right now all I know to do is to accept them for EXACTLY who they are, listen to them and care about what is important to them, and just… be real with them. I know I need to get some therapy but I’m just not there yet.
You are both so amazing- I don’t have any relationship with my sister and we could never talk like this. I’m learning so much from you two talking like this. Thank you!
You two siblings are a huge encouragement for me to start my own channel discussing my experiences within the fundie Catholic homeschool community in Texas. It’s been a goal of mine for a while but seeing y’all start up your channels is making it feel like I should hop on that train too! I love watching you guys, you are both highlights of my subscriptions already. Thanks for sharing once again! Super excited to see this one all the way through! Ps I wanna date annie
My name is Susannah too, also from Texas originally 💕 I would call my upbringing "Fundie - lite." My mom was(is) a big believer in the Satanic Panic, the Moral Majority, the 700 Club, and Focus in the Family. She's a new earth creationist too, and believes the Bible is the inerrant God breathed word of God. I was only briefly homeschooled in a very neglectful manner for a few months in 5th grade, fortunately. Best of luck on your channel, I hope I come across it. My husband was raised Catholic, in the mainstream vein, but he just didn't buy it, and was pretty heavily guilted for not conforming, so it would be interesting to hear about your experiences as a Catholic and a fundie!
Also in Texas! I was kind of forced into the fundie, homeschooling, quiver full life by my ex and his family. All of them were abusive and I tried to escape many times. I tried to protect my kids from it and take the abuse on myself, but they were aware of more than i realized and more than they should have been and i have tremendous guilt I wasn’t able to leave sooner. Of course, it’s hard when you’re physically very sick (multiple autoimmune disease from agent orange exposure in my dad a little before I was conceived) and the money is hidden and you’re isolated from family and friends. I don’t know their mom’s situation. I’ve just found the channel. Do they still talk to her? Is she still that way? It took me literally dying to figure out how to get out of that situation (in a near death experience) and that also led me down a road of deconstruction myself, as it wasn’t anything like I’d been told. And it might have just been a dying brain, but either way it wasn’t what I was told it would be and I was given a clear path to freedom for me and my kids and here I am living in sin (lol) with my partner and being showed what real love looks like. I wish I could do it all over again though. I love my kids, but I know they’re still hurting too and I can’t make it better and I can’t fix it for them and I can’t do enough to show them how sorry I am. From the sound of things here, it never got that bad for them, but I still have enormous guilt for a lot of things. As mentioned, I had no access to money and I couldn’t get a babysitter for most things. I even had to take my kids with me to the OB/GYN and urologist for very personal appointments, he never went to pediatrician visits, so I’d have to bring all four kids
The insight into “having the power” aka the control over the camera is telling of yours and your sisters upbringing. It sounds like this is the one of the very few things you ladies had control of in your young lives which is why (assuming) it was a large part of your free time. Very much like the journal. That was something you had the power of control of. Both also a source of expression 💜
Holy sh!t, the bed thing... long story, awful time in my life, but I called CPS on myself about 8 years ago... a social worker came to the house, and one of her many (heartbreaking) standard questions for my son was, "where do you sleep?" I was proud of the little room I'd decorated for him & his brother to share, with each of them their own little Ikea youth beds and matching dressers... I remember being heartbroken during that visit at the thought that the social worker could not even take for granted that the kids she checked in on had _beds_ , never mind bed rooms! I attributed this more to poverty and neglect, rather than you guys' description of..."laziness." I imagine there's a story there, but I know from other descriptions you've made in past videos that your folks sounded a bit... self-involved? I don't know, of course I only know what you've shared that I've seen, but reading between the lines, I think that's what it sounds like. As a parent who takes my _responsibility_ to my children seriously (does that sound like I don't love them? I absolutely love them w my life!) I'm just horrified that both of your parents would overlook something so fundamental to a reliable, secure environment... I know Elly, you have a story in another video about your parents preparing for CPS visits... did you guys have beds by that point? I'm just really offended on your behalfs that you went w out beds for such a long time for no better reason than that your parents couldn't make the effort to source them! I want to make clear I am a lot less shocked or offended by the idea of parents who can't _afford_ beds for their kids, but I heard the word 'laziness,' and remembered my own experience w the state, and I just found it super upsetting! Thank you guys for making these, I really appreciate your candor and vulnerability and analysis! Can't wait to check out Annie's channel! ETA: shouldn't have commented while watching, Annie, your improv monolog about the power behind the camera was * chef's kiss! * you guys were precious children!
the bed thing is very real, me and my siblings always had "beds" but at many points atleast 3 of us shared one bed (and atleast one was a bedwetter - never given pullups), and we were never taught to clean our rooms or just basic upkeep. but cps was called multiple times and never did anything real, so I guess that's fine now edit: just kidding I actually didn't have a bed for over a year, I forgot I slept on a body pillow and blankets on the floor, and many of us had hammocks instead of beds, also all of our beds and anything else we slept in was bedbug infested for around a decade and probably still is
@@universal_stupidity G-d, I'm so sorry CPS didn't do anything for your family if you believe that they should have... As I understand it, CPS' priorities and trustworthiness varies extremely from state-state, and a visit can be a totally different experience even in "good" jurisdictions if you're any kind of minority for instance... I honestly don't think I'd have decided to take responsibility for my actions the way I did without considering that I was a white, suburban, college-educated, hetero-seeming, SAHM, married to an engineer _and_ supported by my therapist... I told a friend what I'd done and why a year or so after it happened, she said without thinking, "my God, I would never do that, and I work for the state!" I assume that CPS' rocky reputation, as well as the current cultural climate focusing on the "rights of the parents," makes social workers very hesitant to do anything at all unless the situation is really visibly very bad. And I'm conflicted about that, because I think a very poor parent who can't afford a bed right now/yet can still be doing a good job, and the state has a history of basically criminalizing poverty and breaking up (poor, minority) families because the parents can't afford the middle class lifestyle expected of the visiting social worker. On the other hand, "not getting around" to providing something so basic as a bed over an extended period is a bright red flag that the parents are _not paying attention!_ It's equally wrong to assume that if the parents can afford beds but haven't thought about it yet there must be no problem because, look, they're doing well financially! That happens too, with results as potentially disastrous! I feel like because the US is such a large, multi cultural society, _and_ so dedicated in principle to religious tolerance, it's hard to make concrete rules about exactly what parents' rights and responsibilities are. There are very loud Xtian nationalists who proclaim that any accountability for parents at all is the state raising their kids, and that it'll destroy their little souls, etc, and while that seems like a patently absurd claim in the modern era, our founding commitment to religious liberty forces courts to take that assertion seriously. Of course, said commitment doesn't mean courts have to back off the minute an unhinged fundie invokes god and let them abuse their kids any way they see fit, but... the waters do get muddy very quickly when religion enters the chat. I don't know what your experience was, and I hope if it was an abusive one you've gotten a safe distance and some peace at minimum. I am hoping that if enough people who have had bad experiences w CPS grow up and organize, we could form some kind of law or guideline that walks the delicate line of awarding every parent their right to pass on their values and culture _without_ allowing for the abuse, neglect, or deprivation of any child on any grounds. I think it could be done, I just think the committee meetings will probably be very very long!! Sorry for the long answer, I'm procrastinating at home. Take care!
@@katefriend4085 oh I definitely agree w you, especially that poor parents shouldn't be criminalized if they can't afford beds, or other necessities, I think they should be given more support instead, like if parents can't afford beds, okay, maybe send the kids to a relative/friend for a week or two, and help the parents access resources to afford beds. if they aren't providing beds out of pure neglect/laziness (after given resources) then more intervention is needed. But yea it's a very complex issue, especially for minority families, as rules can easily be used to descriminatie.
@@LadyxBleu well, it means basically what it sounds like. After losing my temper and hitting my kids in poorly-regulated panic and frustration, I gave my older son a bruise under his eye. I had hit him w an open hand, but it doesn't matter -- I mean legally that's significant, but I've always felt intellectually that it's not good for kids to 'discipline' them with violence, especially when they're small, so it doesn't really matter that my hand was open at the time. On the rare occasion I tell this story, I find I 'have' to mention this fact, as if I can't help it. Anyway, my emotions overtook my convictions about the proper treatment of unruly children that day, and my beloved little son bore a mark. I felt sick and wanted to die. Instead, my partner and I comforted and talked to our son as best we could. (I have my boys' permission to tell this story.) I had hit them before, not often, always open-handed, and never quite deliberately or out of any belief that it would help the situation, but out of hapless, helpless panic, feeling a horrible regret the moment I did it, like in a nightmare. This time was different, because I had to see the effect long after we all felt more calm and back to ourselves. I couldn't pretend to myself I was just never going to do it again, it was clear I needed help. I called up my therapist, took the bus to her office, and called the CPS hotline with her there for support, and told the whole story to the call taker in between sobs. In theory, anyone can do this, and in certain circumstances it can benefit the parent as well as the child. I had been unwell mentally for a few years when this happened, I was coming out of a really difficult to shake post - partum depression, and coming out of depression w me often looks like rage. I didn't want it to affect my kids, but how could it not? The same day I called, a social worker called me back, and the same social worker came to our house that week. Because of my various axes of privilege outlined above, and because I'd called myself, and because everything else seemed badically okay, they decided after talking to my son not to open a case on our family, and because we live in a comparatively 'liberal' state with an actual budget for social programs, they offered me 90 days of 'parent coaching,' which I gratefully accepted. I was just stabilizing on medication for my lifelong depression at that time (which I experienced in some kind of quantum superposition with the post partum depression), and I think the coaching actually helped a lot, along with the meds. I still feel badly about that period of our family's life, but if I were to hear the whole story from someone else, I don't know that I'd judge a stranger as harshly as I do myself. I like to think I wouldn't at least. Things are much better now than they were. Both my boys are in therapy these days, but for different reasons pertaining as much to their temperaments and the pandemic as the past. It's hard not to feel like I "broke" them sometimes. They're not actually broken though, I think they're brilliant, astonishing, beautiful kids, and I'm proud of them, and very glad that I got help w them when I did, and 'got to keep them.' The thing I really hate about this story is the uneven, unpredictable nature of US child welfare apparatus, so I always want to rush to say "results not typical!" in case someone else reaches out for help in the same way as me for the same reasons as me but in a different place, and their family and their whole life is destroyed just like that, because they weren't perceived the way I was. It's really appalling to think about. Anyway, that is how, and why, I reported myself to CPS. I reiterate, I can't recommend it, but I will also be the first to say it worked out for us.
I am so happy Annie started their channel. It is very interesting to see two siblings talk about their experience in the same culty group and family. I love both of y'alls content! Cannot wait for more to come ❤️
at 27:00, while i don't like the invasion of boundaries that annie clearly mentions being made uncomfortable by in the footage, i was just in awe at their little speech. they have always been interesting 2 listen 2 it seems...
My sister and I grew up in an abusive home and have about the same number of years between us (I was 5 yr 9 mo when she was born) and I would describe our upbringing and relationship much as you are here, minus the religious & homeschool aspects. It’s incredible to me how much I can relate. I’ve shared this with her, I’m excited to learn what she thinks.
Was that the sisters song from White Christmas at the end?! Ya'll are too cute! Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I'm glad you had one another to get through the tough times, and had your creative spirits to make some really sweet memories.
Yo! Another Annie collab! They seem like a rad sibling to have. I'm an only child but I sometimes imagine how different my life would be having one. It's probably a little difficult as children, but as adults if you get along it must be quite comforting having someone close. It's nice seeing you both interact and how your different personalities play off one another. I love this channel and it seriously needs more people watching it. I wasn't raised fundamentalist so all the varied topics that are covered teach me so much!
My friend Ella (fake name for priv) is one of 5 kids. She is the 2nd oldest, age 15, and her older brother is 17. She has an 11 - and 8 year old sister and a 2 year old brother. Her older brother has his own room, and my friend shares a room with her 11 and 8 year old sister. The 2 year old just has a crib in the parents' room, FYI. Also, my friends room consists of a loft bed with a desk underneath and then a bunkbed on the other side of the room. My friends parents hung up curtains to give my friend "her own space" but her siblings annoy her on purpose by turning on London gospel music, shining flashlights from their side of the curtains, etc. Also, my friends dresser is located in her mom's walk in closet so her mom can make sure she only wore "godly clothes" out of the house. Also, all of the kids dressers are in the walk in closet. Even the 17 year old.boys dresser. Also, my friend, who is pansexual and a demigirl, hates dressed, but her mom forces her to wear a pastel pink dress to church every Sunday, and Ella says it's unbearable. She also said that her mom forces her to have long hair, and it ALWAYS must be in 2 tight French braids tied with 2 red bows, and nothing else. (Her mom does all the girls hair in the same style every day, and nobody is allowed to complain.) Also, everyone wears a cross necklace every day no matter what, and no other jewlery is allowed. My friend doesn't even have her ears pierced cuz her mom calls it sinful. Oh and my friend has also never worn makeup, nailpolish, a completely black clothing item other than socks, and she has also never worn hair dye, fishnet anything. Also, my friends mom blocked access to a bunch of LGBT sites from her computer and iPhone, as well as a bunch of LGBT searches. My friend only discovered who she was from a book I lent her which she hid under a pile of old drawings she made on her side of the curtains. Also, my friend is allowed to read any books she wants, as long as it's from the one loca Christian bookstore. Also, she goes to public school, but her mom filed a written request to have her exempt from mandatory health ed, and any lessons on LGBTQ stuff in any other class. Also, she chose to not join the GSA yearbook photo out of fear that if her mom saw the photo, she'd be grounded for 8 weeks, and not allowed to attend the 3 week Christian overnight camp she goes to every summer in June, and she'd also be sent to her pastor for "therapy" (which is illegal because califorina banned conversion therapy) 9th
Edit: ah I see now you’ve discussed it! Annie hiding the journal reminds me of that one part of Little Women with Amy and Jo. Funny but also probably very distressing at the time!
Speaking of which, as an only child, I did sometimes have the same feelings Annie does about the thing that stands between me and that of the older figure whose attention I want. Thing is, that older figure was a parent, and if I pulled the stunt Annie or Amy did with the things standing between me and my mom's attention (in her case the phone or her books), or the things standing between me and my dad's attention (his typewriter, paintings, cassette tapes, and sculptures), I'd have lost privileges. Because you really can't pull the same stunts on a parent as you could with an older sibling. And most parents aren't willing to spoil their kids in these particular departments because parents need me time - and they have to work and take work calls too. So any child not of the fur variety is going to be explicitly taught not to mess with their parents' stuff. And even some fur babies get those lessons to the best of people's ability to teach them.
That’s not an inherent difference between parents and siblings though, it’s just lazy parents. If my younger sibling hid or sabotaged my stuff, I would expect my parents to get them in trouble, and I’d also expect my parents to get me in trouble if I did the same thing to my sister’s stuff. And then it would also be their job to make sure that the kid who was feeling ignored got attention without violating the other kid’s privacy (they would point out “your sister is bored and wants attention”). Anyway my point is that if parents defend their own stuff more than they defend their kids’ stuff, they aren’t exactly parenting.
@@emmanarotzky6565 I agree that parents should be on the ball and defend their kids' stuff. The problem with siblings being able to pull these Little Women type gambits is when parents give older siblings all the responsibility, little to no power, and let the youngest siblings run roughshod over the older siblings' boundaries. Parents are less likely to do that to themselves either way, but parents are perfectly capable of enforcing boundaries with siblings, too. And the worst offenders in the area of NOT enforcing these boundaries always seem to be those who bleat the loudest about not letting kids become spoiled.
Thank you so much to both of you for sharing and making humor when it can be so uncomfortable and hard to reprocess it, so excited to sub to your sibling’s new channel 💖 I have experienced similar discomfort in my own deconstruction but I still can find humor in the past simultaneously, thanks for your perspectives!!
For me the dynamic was flipped - I was the youngest with a 5-6 year age gap between me and my two older siblings and the oldest, my sister, was the rebel & black sheep while I was the golden child. She suffered much more trauma than I did since my dad stopped being as abusive as time went on and especially when he remarried (I was around 4 at that time), but I did definitely carry the burden of being the rule follower. I learned how to lie very well and constantly had that stream of anxious thought in the back of my head about everything I did to make sure it met my parents' high and often unpredictable standards. Now I have moved out and that anxiety is gone but I still will never stand up to my parents. Meanwhile my sister is low contact with them and has been able to heal from a lot of that trauma, which I am very grateful for. Thanks for sharing this video Ellie & Annie!
Y'alls story is so similar to what me and my siblings went through. Whoo, the part about no beds, being left alone with the kids for extremely long periods of time, and not being taught any boundaries is especially hard to listen to... I love your videos as I was also the oldest of 9 and I don't hear a lot of people talk about the guilt and regrets. The worst part is we were children and weren't taught. It's hard learning all of that once you move out and are an adult. Lol I'm glad you and your sibling are able to have a relationship. Me and mine aren't in contact and I miss them so much.
This was a very insightful video. It’s very heartwarming to see a reconciled relationship. I liked the point about how swearing is a better alternative to being hurtful during “big feelings”
You talk a lot about journaling, which is great! Were you worried about your parents reading it? I was always afraid my mom would read my journals and I'd get in trouble for what I'd written, so I never wrote anything down. I asked her once if she would read them, and she said she would if she thought something was seriously wrong. So I never wrote anything down! I remember the first thing my therapist had me do was write a letter to my mom, and I hid it in my file drawer so my mom wouldn't find it
One day I came home from school and found my older sister reading my diary to my mom (who’s fully blind) and laughing their heads off. I never wrote in a journal again.
You both seem so lovely, I love these sibling talks! One can see that you care about each other a lot :) Oh and if your younger sibling is ever up to it, I would be curious to meet him as well.
holy crap!! the sheets/pillowcase at 11:52 is on my bed right now. that’s so funny. i love hearing you two talk about your experiences!! thank u for letting us all see a glimpse into your life growing up💖
You two sisters and your footage from the chapter, " Being creative together" was awesome. I hope I spell it right, but Ellie- I'm really happy you and your sister can look back on things and laugh about it now. You're pretty badass Els. 👍
I was such a dork. What makes you brave is opening up to all of us and sharing some of the most thoughtful times of your life. You and Anna are a hoot! Thanky. 😂
thank you for putting this all out on the interwebs, this might be one of my favourite videos of yours!! Also I am not a fundie kid whatsoever and yet I related to a surprising amount of your sibling dynamic. Some things are just inherent to being siblings, I think. My sister is 4.5 years younger than me and we shared a room (with bunk beds!) until I moved out at 23. When we were kids my parents would always make her tag along to my friends' birthday parties and everything and once I reached my tweens I was not a fan of it. Also I didn't journal that much but I remember how much she resented me having to do homework instead of playing with her. Wild, you brought up so many memories. I totally did the "splitting the room in half" bit as well, lol. My childhood was way way easier and less chaotic and traumatic than yours for sure, and I don't want to take any of your pain and trauma away. I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but maybe you can find comfort in knowing that some of the difficulties in your relationship growing up were just part of the normal growing pains, and that most siblings have those moments at one point or another
I love to hear how you are able to put your feelings into words so well. I think it is a great gift and helps a lot of people to recognize their own feelings as well
Aleays love you're videos, and you guys' sibling Bond is amazing especially after everything you've both been through and your family dynamic, it's beautiful to see that despite the attempts of your parents (conscious or subconscious) you both have come out of it with such a strong bond! So much love and respect to you both ❤
I'm glad you guys get. along now. I also grew up in a fundamentalist family and had similar dynamics with my sister but we don't talk now. It would be nice to have things turn out differently but it is good to see that it is possible for other people to overcome.
What fun this will be! I’m looking forward to the differing viewpoints. You are both so well spoken and happy to share your memories and seem so free and joyful now. ❤️🙏🏻 u
Elly, thanks to you, I passed my A-Levels with flying colours and my relationship with my brother is so great. I am thinking about him joining me to live in Bell Suite since his grades were incredible after next year.
So brilliant watching this because my Wife Sharon is nearly seven years older than her Sister Shonah. So mich of what Hoi say repeats her experience with her much younger sibling. This of course=is in the UK 🇬🇧 and her parents are not religious at all but she’s told me about loads of this stuff in her role as ‘Big Sister’. That whole thing of taking care of you little sister was passed down to her from a very early age. She said it felt like she was being asked to do stuff her parents should be doing. Although they eventually got separate bedrooms her younger sister would root through all of her stuff (and as she entered puberty earlier than her Sister you can imagine how that would work out!) She had no choice but to have her younger Sister tag along when she was with her older friends. This was hard for her and I think she kind of resented it…The two Sisters are totally different My Wife having being diagnosed at a young age with mental illness has pretty much hardly worked. This means her Sister was very young when Sharon got her diagnosis. What has been wonderful in a way though is how her younger Sister has always protected her, fought for her and even now talks with Doctors and officials for her as a kind of advocate That ‘explosive parenting stuff’ you both experienced with you Mum and Dad would have been experienced by my two grown up sons between their birth a mother and myself We were married eighteen years but sometimes when you just put us together, stressed us out, we found it hard to cope, we”d explode with each other. Oh boy were those ‘fights’ big. A lot of the time she was going for the strict parent style, lots of uncrossable boundaries, do as we say, it’s my way or the Highway and I’m just being my totally cool fully liberal self. So this leads to the classic ‘you never back me up in front of the children. More fighting, more shouting, more disagreements and her screaming at me ‘well if you would just grow a pair for once!’ Honestly I am so sorry our children had to see this and to this day I wonder what it did to them both? They’ve done well in their lives and they both seem stable but I just know watching us fight like that must have harmed them in some way. One amazing thing though is that both boys are self reliant, strong in a good way, mainly tolerant and as far as I can see emotionally well adjusted. It’s true I was far from perfect in that marriage and with our children. I was bullied as a kid in a big way at school. It left a mark on me. Looking as objectively as I can back all those years ago and back on my first Wife it’s hard to say this but to be honest she was in some ways a bit of a bully. Now I don’t mean physically with any of us but I would say emotionally and mentally To this day I will never forget a time when it was raining really hard and she would not yet our oldest Son back into the warmth of the car until he had said a word he had just learned ‘correctly’. I knew she would jace started on me if I just opened the locked doors anyway and I of course tried to make her back down but he stayed out in the rain and cold until her got the word right. Even to this day and that must be over 23 years ago now, I will never forget that instance. (I should add that he tells me at some point after we split she recalled the incident with him and admitted that was a terrible thing to do and asked her to forgive him) It’s not an excuse but her Father as she told me once could be very demanding with her and often called her ‘stupid’ if she could not get something right)
Being an only child growing up really damaged me especially with the religious aspect leaving me isolated to it without someone to comfort or help me. But I can't imagine having siblings because I know that they would have fully leaned into everything my abuser said. My heart goes out to everybody who suffered the way I have suffered. And the thing is is that I actually have siblings. My dad just sort of let them drift apart to be adopted out to other people and kept me. It's crazy how religion works and how you can just give away all the children that you don't want and keep the ones that you do want. I did have two siblings in home while growing up but that's a long story on why I didn't for long.
I haven't even watched your video yet, but I am pretty sure that middle picture is you and your sister performing the song "Sisters" from White Christmas because my Fundy sister and I also sang it, although we never had the fans, jelly.
I'm glad you two are able to have difficilt discussions and be willing to share them. Thank you. Side note: have you seen the new Little Women yet? If so, do you prefer that one or the Winona Ryder one?
I immediately thought of that scene in Little Women and when you mentioned it, I thought, are you gonna use the clip of Winona Ryder and Kirsten Dunst or of Saoirse Ronan and Florence Pugh? Lol
Thank you for a very informative channel! Will you by any means make a video about the economy of people in the "quiverfull movement" (or quiverfull behavior, rather)? The subject interests me becuse I can't really get the numbers to add up around having dozens of kids. Other fundamentalist movements with very large families such as the amish or ultra-orthodox jews tend to have some industry, agricultural or otherwise, wich they work in, and also employ each other and support each other economically, making this lifestyle possible and create an incentive to stay within the sect. I have heared some preacher of quiverfull ideology ecourage their disciples to isolate their families even from each other. How does this affect the sustenance of these very large families? Do they manage to cooperate to make ends meet? Do these families tend to live geographically close to each other? Also, how do they prepare their sons to become breadwinners? Are there any specific career paths they are encouraged to take? Training schools for suitable jobs run by likeminded churches? Job programs? (Or complete lack of such)? Could you tell us something else about the economic aspects of how this movement tries to make their lifestyle prevail?
Y'all remind me of me and my little sister -- maybe not in the specific details, but in the general dynamic: the goody-two-shoes older one, and the cool rebellious younger one. I guess it's a universal sibling dynamic, to some extent. The oldest sibling is always expected to be a little more "perfect". It ended differently for us, though... My younger sister ended up getting _hardcore_ invested in religion after a big move where she had to start high school in a very unfamiliar area. A local stereotypical right-wing southern Christian church became her entire support system. At that time I was just starting college and had much more autonomy, and could finally rebel a little, and I ended up leaving :p
When Ellie was trying to describe her parents personality, something I've heard people say is "they're all id," as in, their minds are consumed with basic impulses and drives and instincts with little time spent on higher level thinking. Maybe I'm just prejudiced, but I think this is really common for fundamentalists and far right people. The only way they see to curb their impulses, which they realize are often self destructive and antisocial, is total submission to higher authority. They have no way to imagine that some people can just... make a decision to not be horrible even if it felt right.
Hi Elly and Annie, I love this video! I do not have a fundamentalist background, so I was wondering, what is the organization “above rubies” that you mentioned? You said you were embarrassed/horrified by it but I’m not sure what it is so I was just wondering.
I heard Elly mention this before but they said that above rubies is a group that their parents got involved with I think above rubies was on tv? Anyways from what I heard above rubies is a horrible group I’m thinking elly can explain more about it?
The way your sibling talks about being annoyed at being filmed and not having control over what is shown reminds me of all the kids trapped in family vlogging on TH-cam for their family's income. :/ Good on you to apologize to your sibling, but you were also relatively young & can't be faulted too much for not acting better.
@@devidaughter7782 Thank you. I changed the word to sibling. I hadn't noticed anyone in this video saying not to call them sister or even not to use "she" as a pronoun, so her sibling's name and appearance made me default to the word sister. Skimming through the video transcript now, I see they used "sibling" the whole time and did use "they" in reference to the sibling. Still, there's a difference between using one word and making a clear statement that you prefer not to have another word used. For example, if I repeatedly refer to myself as a teacher and then someone calls me an educator, that's something I'm fine with even though I never used the word educator in my own speech. So, if this request to not use "sister" or for only "they" pronouns to be used (from which I'd deduce it's probable that only "sibling" should be used - but perhaps still not certain, since every individual has their own set of language preferences) was in the video, I apologize for not catching it.
@@Dreamprism thanks for your receptivity to dialogue about this; we're all learning! I realized that I automatically used 'she' for Elly in my comment, and didn't even think to use 'they'! it's a learning curve for us all, and I think what's important is to keep asking questions, remaining curious and open... while having grace for ourselves and others!
Home schooling is a good thing, and I think parents should have enough time off from work to teach their kids, so let's make a 20hour work week the standard for full time work. Public schooling is also a good thing, and I think every elementary school class should stay together, year by year, instead of being jumbled together in a new class each year. I think it would be a beneficial thing if kids had the opportunity to stay together over a span of years, with the same teacher or maybe change teachers after four years, but forming a bond between the kids would be a good thing.
One idea for a collab video could be talking about gender identity after deconstructing from fundamentalism. I am connected to quite a few ex-fundies on here and for AFAB ex-fundies, a queer gender identity seems to be the norm rather than the exception. I fall into this category as well as someone who is fluid between a few non-binary identities. When you grow up with so much trauma around your gender, it makes sense to want to distance yourself from that as part of deconstruction.
I’d also imagine that those who instinctively know they’re different gender or sexuality wise are more likely to deconstruct because they can never fit into the cishet mould no matter what they do. It’s easier to fit into a mould that is actually applicable to you even though being a cishet fundie isn’t exactly easy, especially for women. Being a fundie is like being told to climb a huge tree with one hand. If you have hands it’s a difficult but not an impossible task, but if you don’t have hands you’re never going to do it so why even bother?
I just love the fact that the two of you are both not the cisgender women you were supposed to be. I am cracking up. I am an ex Catholic for obvious reasons, I am a practicing Episcopalian and my church is accepting of all and youd be right at home
With the way that your parents relationship was, you would likely have “issues “ to deal with, fundie or not. Don’t mean that to sound insulting or anything, but it sounds like they were fanatically messed up. Hope you continue to find health and happiness and peace.
That song Above All is painful to listen to. It reminds me of the emotional baggage of Jesus' death strapped to me and so many other fundies at a young age.
It's so funny. We swear in front of our kids but we tell them not to say those words in front of teachers. BUT, neither of them swear. Ever. It's weird. I think they think it's old or something?
Sub standard living conditions are so common among fundie children. I’m not surprised at all you two were sleeping on the floor for years. It makes me so angry that fundie parents can write off any of their transgressions as something to do with the bible. The excuses people pull from religion in order to continue failing and abusing their families (and the wider community) is truly mind boggling.
It hurts and warms my heart to listen to you and your sibling. My older sisters joined my abuser and went from being my greatest confidantes to people I haven't spoken to in almost two years. Especially as a trans person I wish I could have what you and your sibling have.
I'm so sorry, that sounds really painful.
@@ExFundieDiaries its okay! I've made peace with it as much as I can, and I'm much happier without them in my life. Your videos are amazing and have opened a door to healing for me, and I love seeing the videos with your sibling. I also have 4 other siblings so in the future I'm hopeful I can have a good relationship with them.
this sounds like my experience too tbh, i would like for them to stop following my mother and father's rule and be able to be around them more but it's too hard
@@mikaelamonsterland I know it's hard and I wish they could see how much it hurts us. The fact is you should be proud of yourself, being distanced from family is soul crushing sometimes but so necessary. You should be proud that you're protecting yourself even when it's hard.
Elly just lights up when they talk with Annie, and the love, respect and affection between the two siblings is palpable! both are so compassionate towards each other! for Annie to be able to see how Elly never had the luxury of rebellion shows so much empathy! and for Elly to be able to acknowledge how her sibling must have felt in various scenarios described, is such a demonstration to us all of how healthy, responsible communication about our own part in the past can truly heal the present and the future!
It shows how far the two of them come they show alot of love towards each other and it wasn't always like that
The forceful tickling reminded me of something. When I was a child, my dad did the same. I hated it. I told him to stop everytime. One time I was screaming and crying to get him to stop and he did eventually. But as soon as I got up, I threw up all over the rug. Man tickled me so hard I puked.
that is abuse! over-riding a child's 'no' in regard to unwanted touch is abuse!
@@devidaughter7782 that actually makes a lot of sense. He never hit us or anything but he loved to yell at us and humiliate us.
I was the oldest of 10 in a homeschool family. I was also seen as the "rebellious" one because if I thought something was unfair, I would speak up. Merely asking questions about why Mom or Dad did something was considered rebellious, I guess.
After I was in my 20s, I finally began to see some of the abuses of my family's situation. After some futile attempts at reform, I ended up moving out (at the age of 26). This was seen as PROOF that I was selfish, rebellious, demon-filled, ungrateful, proud, etc., etc. I've had very little contact with my other siblings, and none that wasn't filtered through Mom and Dad for the past 5 years now.
Until just recently, that is... my brother (the next oldest) fell in love with a young lady and was trying to navigate our parents' courtship standards as obediently as possible. However, my parents kept finding fault with them, for one reason or another. For example, the four of them were all on a walk one day. My brother and his gf weren't paying attention, and walked some distance ahead, though still well within view of my parents. He was accused of "rebelling" and "sneaking off". This was not an isolated instance either. During this drama, he realized that the way Mom and Dad were treating him was exactly the same as they treated me. So he began re-reading some of the email correspondence from around the time I left, and realized that I had not only done nothing wrong, but I was making valid points. So he contacted me again to tell me that he understood my situation before, and was moving out as well.
It's funny that you mentioned that you and your sister didn't have beds to sleep in for a long time. In our house, we had a boys' bedroom and a girls' bedroom. At some point (I don't remember if it was for fun, or if it was maybe due to thunderstorms or who-knows-what), all of us decided to camp out in the living room one night. We spread all our pillows and blankets all over the floor, 2 of the girls took the couches, and we just had a big campout in the living room. Well, the next night, we decided to camp out again, cuz why not. It turned into a permanent thing... we just slept in the living room, despite the fact that we had perfectly good beds in our bedrooms.
Now, as a young adult male (I was already in my 20s at the time), I found it really embarrassing when I would wake up with... standard young adult male issues. There were sisters in the room too young to understand. Somehow I'd have to get out of bed and walk across the house to my room to change, without anyone noticing. I don't know if anyone ever did notice, but I found it embarrassing and difficult nonetheless. After a while, I asked why we didn't sleep in our beds anymore; I don't remember the reply, but the other kids wanted to keep camping out, and the social pressure won in the end.
Finally, summertime came around, and it became unbearably hot and humid in the living room. The house had no central air, but the kids bedrooms were in the basement where it was much cooler. I pushed a little harder this time to go back to sleeping in our beds. Mom and Dad took me aside and made it very clear that they wanted us all to keep sleeping in the living room for "accountability". They didn't say it in so many words, but they thought that I wanted to go back downstairs so that I could have the privacy to masturbate at night. Or at least they used the implication as leverage to shut me up, because I couldn't thereafter keep pushing to sleep downstairs without looking like I had ulterior motives. I hated it.
The further I get from the whole situation, the more messed up it looks in hindsight.
When I hear Ellie talk about needing to know the rules and follow the rules, I resonate so much with that. As an autistic person, I feel a very strong sense of right and wrong. I remember being very upset when my friends and even my older sister had premarital sex. I was very bothered and worried about their soul. I wasn’t in IBLP but Southern Baptist. As I got older, and deconstructed my religion I felt so at a loss knowing there is no cosmic equation to follow to go to heaven. I felt so disturbed and unmoored. Realizing there was no authority, that I had full authority over my life, that felt dangerous. It felt like a step into the unknown. I had very inflexible thinking and I have grown that m, as well as working on feeling confident in my instincts, trusting my own decisions and feel okay about that, not feel like I am desperately searching for life rules to follow! I really connect to Ellie. As a kid I couldn’t believe my older sister dare disobey our parents. I was often a tattle tale. My partner was a rebellious teen, and I can’t believe walking out of the house or breaking curfew.
I’m struggling with much the same these past few years at age 50, as someone who is also on the autistic spectrum, non-binary, and grew up in a rural and hyperconservative Evangelical Fundamentalist community…as well as being the first born and all the added responsibilities that go along with such. There was so much abuse and trauma growing up within that community, especially the years of unending severe bullying in school (by numerous peers and teachers), but the religious trauma was by far the worst and has had the greatest devastation on my life as an adult as well as on my physical and mental health (both of which collapsed at age 18 leaving me permanently disabled as a consequence of so many years of abuse and extreme stress). I have never been capable of a relationship nor have I ever been able to date because of the shame and terror the church employed around sexual purity (associating any sexual thought, desire, or attraction with being equal to raping a woman…so sexuality and rape are two concepts forever linked together for me)…reinforced all the more by the fact that my only sexual experience comes from being raped by a close female friend (while I was dissociated), which only adds to all that mess and confusion, then for good measure throw in a God that we were indoctrinated with that, quite frankly, makes the devil look like an angel (and a far better option?) by comparison. But like you, I have never been able to break rules, not even when the consequences for doing so would otherwise be trivial as I feel bound by such rules. Not that breaking curfew or sneaking out would have done me much good anyhow as a teen given that I had no friends and I was the most hated student in my school simply because others saw me as “different” and an “outsider”, so I would have just been sneaking out to the middle of nowhere to be alone by myself in the middle of nowhere and I could do that just as effectively at home in a far more comfortable bed…lol. I am only three years into therapy trying to process all the past childhood and early adult trauma and it, frankly, feels like I’ll be spending the rest of my natural life in therapy trying to undo all the damage others have caused.
I have real doubts about whether a (romantic) relationship will ever even be a possibility in this life (as much as I may desire such, but even having that desire feels selfish given reality) since I not only come across to women as extremely asexual (I’m not, but I can’t attach sexual desires to another real life person due to the terror associated with the triggered memories and the Church’s programmed association of sexuality with rape) and the fact that I never had the opportunity to even learn how dating, relationships, and sexuality are supposed to work/function together nor did I ever have the opportunity to learn the many innate nonverbal cues and communications associated with each…and at my age women already expect men to not only know but to have mastered all of those concepts…then add in disability, severely limiting chronic illnesses (due to the trauma) and mental illness (namely complex PTSD, DID, dissociation, and major depression) and I have never encountered anyone even remotely attracted to me. I have tried to date numerous times over the years, but I have always wound up the “best best-friend, ever” as women can not see me as anything more than a very close friend…which has always hurt, but it always plays out the same way and has for more than 30 years since I have no ability to flirt or interact with others from a place of sexuality (nor does it help that everything about sexuality, especially seeing others in a sexual light, feels so very wrong and inconsiderate without their prior permission to see them in that way). I have had to learn that no matter how deeply I may love a woman that women will never be capable of loving me in return, only of liking me because I am simply not someone that women can feel anything more for (when it comes to trying to date in the past I have had a great many “not interested” and “no” responses, including among very close friends, but I have never had even one “yes” in more than 30 years nor have any women ever asked me out, so I have never had a first date with anyone).
I really wish that our churches and schools were both held accountable for what is nothing less than child abuse, and, in the case of the church, psychosexual child abuse that has been found to carry the exact same trauma as child rape due to the way they employ our own developing sexuality against us at puberty forcing us to reject and repress our innate sexuality at all cost while labeling us “rapists”, or any other “degenerate” term, if we ever so much as experience a sexual thought or feeling prior to marriage - all throughout puberty no less! They really deserve to be properly prosecuted for mass child abuse and forced to stop this abuse once and for all rather than continue on abusing our children the way they have for decades now! It absolutely boggles my mind that so many people are seemingly ok with defending the right of Churches to openly abuse our children without consequence.
Secular ethical philosophy also exists and uses logic/rationality instead of superstition
This made me cry. The sister that I survived a cult with, that was my best friend when I was a teenager, that I survived brutal and potentially fatal abuse with, I haven't talked to in almost 6 months. I cut her out because she had become blatantly abusive also. But I feel like a piece of me is missing. We had plans to do things together. She had bought expensive fabric to make a quilt for me. She is the only one who was in the trenches with me, though as someone almost 9 years older, she definitely experienced it differently. But also she hasn't done (isn't ready to do?) the work of understanding how abuse works, how our family worked, that it was catastrophically worse than any of us realized in the middle of it. She blames me for so much of what our parents did.
I am so glad that you both have a great relationship, that you've both worked hard to understand what happened to you. I hope maybe I can have that someday, too.
so about swearing, before I got comfy with swearing I remember having really big feelings, and really big emotions, but I didn't have the words to express them. and because I was physically punished, but not given the words to express feelings, they came out physically instead, often with violence, either self directed or at others. Swearing, I see as genuinely healthy and necessary, because it gives kids the words the express their big feelings, so they don't resort to hitting, throwing, or other kinds of violence. If I ever have kids I will teach them to swear when they get overwhelmed (in appropriate situations), and if they have too, to scream into something, or hit a pillow, because big feelings need to come out somehow.
I love any content you do with your sibling. As someone who grew up with an older sibling about Elly's age, I really connect with the two of you and your bond. I'm so glad you've been able to forage a new relationship as adults together.
I like that 'forage' a new relationship! :)😃😆😅😉 ... a fun play on words!
@@devidaughter7782 an unintentional one (I always mix up forge and forage) but I'm not mad about it at all lol
I used to work at a horse stable that was owned by a VERY conservative, Christian fundie family. Their oldest daughter was learning how to play the piano. I thought she would like to listen to my CD of the musical score from the movie, "The Horse Whisperer" by Thomas Newman as it has a lot of piano in it, and is very beautiful. (Some of the most beautiful pieces of music are musical scores from motion pictures, in my opinion.)
I brought it to the stables and she listened to it a few times and absolutely LOVED it. She mentioned that she wanted to copy it but her mom told her that was completely out of the question because that is illegal. She went on to say that "God wants us to obey ALL Laws."
They were homeschooled as well and went to a "Co-op." I fed the boarder's horses many a time because they were doing Co-op and running late. I worked there from 2007 to 2013. I was a Christian too, but by 2013, I was at my wit's end at hearing their extremest views. Especially their belief that God chose everyone who believes in Him, and made everyone who rejects Him specifically to burn in Hell.
I saw a newspaper article that said that Truck Drivers are in short supply and if you have a CDL, you can get a job nearly anywhere. I thought, "that's my way out!" I made an appointment at a local CDL school to enroll at the beginning of May. I told the Stable owner and she insisted that I stay until the school year ended at the end of June. Reluctantly, I did. I started CDL training in early July and haven't been happier. It was tough learning to drive a commercial truck, but it was the best decision I've ever made. I haven't talked to them since.
I'm so glad you found a way to take care of yourself that took you out of contact with that family! Wishing you all the best.
@@katattack907 Thanks! Yes, it was VERY tough learning to drive a commercial truck, but it was the BEST decision I've ever made. I drove for a few different companies, but now I drive for Sherwin Williams with a 48 foot trailer equipped with a lift gate. I deliver paint and other supplies to the stores at night with nobody else around. It's the best working conditions I've ever had. I absolutely love it! I'm home every day too!
I have no idea how that Fundie horse stable family is doing now, and I don't care. I escaped that nonsense.
I wish you the best too.
I really admire the self reflection and self compassion that you two are engaging in. It gives me a lot of hope in developing those skills for myself. I want to tell you that your videos have aided in my healing, and have helped me find language to describe my experiences. Thanks, Elly, and I can't wait to watch Annie's channel too.
If it makes you feel any better - kids are amazing at psychological torture. I didn’t grow up in a fundie family at all (we were super liberal/leftist), but I also had to share a room with my younger sibling and didn’t respect their space at all. I would write down or record what she was saying without permission all the time! I also did the thing where I would scoop & dump all her mess onto her side of the room only to have her throw it back at me. I have a list of nasty pranks I’d pull on her, thankfully none of them turned out to be dangerous!
Thanks for the relatable introspection.
This was so relatable to listen to. I'm the oldest, five year age gap between my sibling and I, and the position I was put in as the oldest had much the same effect on me as you seem to have experienced. I wasn't allowed to have feelings, in many ways, because negative feelings relating to my sibling were always painted as me being selfish or acting like a brat. As we got older I was forced to include my sibling, and it made my friends not want to come to my house. I rarely had friends over, but often ran to their houses at every opportunity, just to get an escape.
There was also a very big difference in what rules were enforced and how strictly they were enforced on me vs my sibling, so a lot of the effects and trauma of that that I'm still working through, my sibling doesn't understand or sympathize with because they don't see why I have the hang ups that I do, when they seemingly steamrolled through them.
It's made things very difficult when we're forced to be in close quarters for any length of time.
It is always interesting to me how siblings can grow-up in the same house and process their experience in different ways. I know there are a lot of factors that play in to it like birth order, gender, and environment. Those diverse perspectives make for great conversation points as adults and can provide clarity and closure in some situations. Great video!
You two are both so likable and I'm so happy you've got a good relationship now that you're adults away from that toxic environment
As a homeschooled fundie the videos of you playing outside made me sob and made me remember things I haven’t in years. So many of those things are lost to me in my mind. Hidden. And now I got to remember, they were beautiful memories to me too. Thank you
If y’all still want to tap into that imagination as adults, have you tried Dungeons & Dragons? :) maybe that would be a good outlet!
It's so much fun! My husband and I play it with our three teenaged boys. My mom is to this day, VERY against D&D😂
@@someonerandom256 well we all know that D&D turns everyone into satanic cannibals that eat children! She should be rightly scared of what that game is doing to you!
/S
Annie has played D&D! I never have, but I'd like to someday :)
I'll also point out that if the high-fantasy genre doesn't suit you, there are plenty of other tabletop RPGs that fill the same imagination/improv niche while exploring other genres. Some of my personal favorites are Monster of the Week, which has a sort of Scooby Doo/X-Files vibe, and Lancer, which is a crunchy sci-fi game about mechas and AI.
"Did I swear around you? Thqt was very bold of me"
Annie, I'm really sorry that I laughed so hard at that. Guffawed, even. But only because I understand all too well
💖🤗
Wow this is SO much like my relationship with my next sibling. I'm the oldest of 8 and we had a MASSIVE rivalry for so many of the reasons you had. I had no idea anyone else was experiencing this dysfunction with their siblings and wow i just feel so seen.
Seriously, Ellie, thanks for continually sharing. My parents are catholic fundies so my upbringing was somewhat different, but really only in the technical religious aspects.
Your videos have been very healing for me to watch. I feel like it is rare to see my experiences reflected in others, even other ex-fundies. I also appreciate how you own and name your past behaviors and apologize. I know it’s very hard to recognize and admit to doing stuff you weren’t proud of.
Me and my siblings could have made a lot of this video. The exception was 1) I wasn’t homeschooled, but I did got to a Christian private school and was heavily isolated and immersed in fundagelical culture 2) my parents were divorced so I didn’t get to have much of a relationship with my younger siblings from my moms second marriage, but I was still parentified, asked to “babysit,” asked to enforce discipline, and expected to have a relationship with these kids that I essentially had no bond with due to partial custody arrangement. There was also an element of competition for affection because we were emotionally neglected due to how big our family was and the intersections of poverty, mental illness, domestic abuse, etc. that is a LOT on a family.
I relate to the two of you so much as someone who was homeschooled and raised in fundamentalism. My sister is 4 years older and I see a lot of us in your relationship growing up. My sister and I are close now but what is lacking is her support of me leaving religion and "rebelling". I was never supported in leaving by my immediate family. So in Elly's words towards Annie, I can view them as that supportive big sister.
Your relationship reminds me of my sister and me. I am 5 years older and very much felt the pressure to be a good example and be a third parent and it made me into a perfectionist. She rebelled a lot when she hit her teen years and I was an older teen and I did all kinds of things to her over that including tell my parents on her. There was fear there for sure because of the religious stuff. But looking back on it, I realize there was so much jealousy. She was doing things I wanted to do and rebelling in ways I wanted to but I didn't have the courage to and I envied her so much for having the courage I didn't have.
so honest! thank you!
It was really refreshing hearing both of you thinking though and processing how you both treated each other when you were younger and seeing that light bulb go off and go “oh, wait, no I shouldn’t have treated you like that I’m sorry.” I feel like that often doesn’t happen with relationships and I admire you both for being so vulnerable and open with each other and with your followers. It also breaks my heart how much guilt we all hold about things we did as kids when we truly just didn’t know any better. I just remind myself that I didn’t have the tools that I have now back then and can be better going forward.
I don't know how this video came up in my recommends but I am so glad it did. I was raised in a fairly abusive fundie home and it had the effect of breaking us apart. There was only my brother and I, and I love him dearly but he has moved far away and we only speak infrequently. I was favored over him and the guilt I feel is tremendous. I really loved this discussion, I love how you speak to each other with respect and kindness, it warms my heart. I am so sorry for what you went through as children, I think you have a lot of courage to speak about it in the public. I think channels like this are really important. Thank you.
Love when y’all do videos together CANT WAIT for their channel. I’m so glad I have the privilege of learning your life stories and that you’re both open to share them with us. Such a unique look at lives a lot of us even from Christian households (did nothing for me lol) but how it truly is for y’all when y’all grew up. So proud of you both and your progress you’ve both made to get away and get to a happier healthier place in life. 💖
This is absolutely fascinating. I applaud and appreciate you both for your transparency and willingness to share your experiences. I am more likely closer to your parents’ age but I have just in the last year or so begun the deconstruction process…along with my husband. We have homeschooled 4 boys and I am still processing the guilt I feel for the things they missed out on. We have been honest with our sons and have MUCH better relationships with them. We have apologized for much of their upbringing. I don’t think there is anything we can do to fully make up for the damage we caused but right now all I know to do is to accept them for EXACTLY who they are, listen to them and care about what is important to them, and just… be real with them. I know I need to get some therapy but I’m just not there yet.
You are both so amazing- I don’t have any relationship with my sister and we could never talk like this. I’m learning so much from you two talking like this. Thank you!
You two siblings are a huge encouragement for me to start my own channel discussing my experiences within the fundie Catholic homeschool community in Texas. It’s been a goal of mine for a while but seeing y’all start up your channels is making it feel like I should hop on that train too! I love watching you guys, you are both highlights of my subscriptions already. Thanks for sharing once again! Super excited to see this one all the way through!
Ps I wanna date annie
I'd watch your channel. I grew up in christian fundamentalism in north central TX so your experience would be hugely interesting to me!
@@Pfpfpfpfpf2020 Likewise, I'd watch your experiences too! Do you post videos related to the topic?
My name is Susannah too, also from Texas originally 💕 I would call my upbringing
"Fundie - lite." My mom was(is) a big believer in the Satanic Panic, the Moral Majority, the 700 Club, and Focus in the Family. She's a new earth creationist too, and believes the Bible is the inerrant God breathed word of God. I was only briefly homeschooled in a very neglectful manner for a few months in 5th grade, fortunately. Best of luck on your channel, I hope I come across it. My husband was raised Catholic, in the mainstream vein, but he just didn't buy it, and was pretty heavily guilted for not conforming, so it would be interesting to hear about your experiences as a Catholic and a fundie!
Also in Texas! I was kind of forced into the fundie, homeschooling, quiver full life by my ex and his family. All of them were abusive and I tried to escape many times. I tried to protect my kids from it and take the abuse on myself, but they were aware of more than i realized and more than they should have been and i have tremendous guilt I wasn’t able to leave sooner. Of course, it’s hard when you’re physically very sick (multiple autoimmune disease from agent orange exposure in my dad a little before I was conceived) and the money is hidden and you’re isolated from family and friends. I don’t know their mom’s situation. I’ve just found the channel. Do they still talk to her? Is she still that way? It took me literally dying to figure out how to get out of that situation (in a near death experience) and that also led me down a road of deconstruction myself, as it wasn’t anything like I’d been told. And it might have just been a dying brain, but either way it wasn’t what I was told it would be and I was given a clear path to freedom for me and my kids and here I am living in sin (lol) with my partner and being showed what real love looks like. I wish I could do it all over again though. I love my kids, but I know they’re still hurting too and I can’t make it better and I can’t fix it for them and I can’t do enough to show them how sorry I am. From the sound of things here, it never got that bad for them, but I still have enormous guilt for a lot of things. As mentioned, I had no access to money and I couldn’t get a babysitter for most things. I even had to take my kids with me to the OB/GYN and urologist for very personal appointments, he never went to pediatrician visits, so I’d have to bring all four kids
As another survivor of a fundie Catholic homeschool community in Texas, I feel seen!
The insight into “having the power” aka the control over the camera is telling of yours and your sisters upbringing. It sounds like this is the one of the very few things you ladies had control of in your young lives which is why (assuming) it was a large part of your free time. Very much like the journal. That was something you had the power of control of. Both also a source of expression 💜
I really loved this. You two seem to have formed such a strong and healthy line of communication.
Holy sh!t, the bed thing... long story, awful time in my life, but I called CPS on myself about 8 years ago... a social worker came to the house, and one of her many (heartbreaking) standard questions for my son was, "where do you sleep?" I was proud of the little room I'd decorated for him & his brother to share, with each of them their own little Ikea youth beds and matching dressers... I remember being heartbroken during that visit at the thought that the social worker could not even take for granted that the kids she checked in on had _beds_ , never mind bed rooms! I attributed this more to poverty and neglect, rather than you guys' description of..."laziness." I imagine there's a story there, but I know from other descriptions you've made in past videos that your folks sounded a bit... self-involved? I don't know, of course I only know what you've shared that I've seen, but reading between the lines, I think that's what it sounds like. As a parent who takes my _responsibility_ to my children seriously (does that sound like I don't love them? I absolutely love them w my life!) I'm just horrified that both of your parents would overlook something so fundamental to a reliable, secure environment...
I know Elly, you have a story in another video about your parents preparing for CPS visits... did you guys have beds by that point? I'm just really offended on your behalfs that you went w out beds for such a long time for no better reason than that your parents couldn't make the effort to source them!
I want to make clear I am a lot less shocked or offended by the idea of parents who can't _afford_ beds for their kids, but I heard the word 'laziness,' and remembered my own experience w the state, and I just found it super upsetting!
Thank you guys for making these, I really appreciate your candor and vulnerability and analysis! Can't wait to check out Annie's channel!
ETA: shouldn't have commented while watching, Annie, your improv monolog about the power behind the camera was * chef's kiss! * you guys were precious children!
the bed thing is very real, me and my siblings always had "beds" but at many points atleast 3 of us shared one bed (and atleast one was a bedwetter - never given pullups), and we were never taught to clean our rooms or just basic upkeep. but cps was called multiple times and never did anything real, so I guess that's fine now
edit: just kidding I actually didn't have a bed for over a year, I forgot I slept on a body pillow and blankets on the floor, and many of us had hammocks instead of beds, also all of our beds and anything else we slept in was bedbug infested for around a decade and probably still is
@@universal_stupidity G-d, I'm so sorry CPS didn't do anything for your family if you believe that they should have...
As I understand it, CPS' priorities and trustworthiness varies extremely from state-state, and a visit can be a totally different experience even in "good" jurisdictions if you're any kind of minority for instance... I honestly don't think I'd have decided to take responsibility for my actions the way I did without considering that I was a white, suburban, college-educated, hetero-seeming, SAHM, married to an engineer _and_ supported by my therapist... I told a friend what I'd done and why a year or so after it happened, she said without thinking, "my God, I would never do that, and I work for the state!"
I assume that CPS' rocky reputation, as well as the current cultural climate focusing on the "rights of the parents," makes social workers very hesitant to do anything at all unless the situation is really visibly very bad. And I'm conflicted about that, because I think a very poor parent who can't afford a bed right now/yet can still be doing a good job, and the state has a history of basically criminalizing poverty and breaking up (poor, minority) families because the parents can't afford the middle class lifestyle expected of the visiting social worker. On the other hand, "not getting around" to providing something so basic as a bed over an extended period is a bright red flag that the parents are _not paying attention!_ It's equally wrong to assume that if the parents can afford beds but haven't thought about it yet there must be no problem because, look, they're doing well financially! That happens too, with results as potentially disastrous!
I feel like because the US is such a large, multi cultural society, _and_ so dedicated in principle to religious tolerance, it's hard to make concrete rules about exactly what parents' rights and responsibilities are. There are very loud Xtian nationalists who proclaim that any accountability for parents at all is the state raising their kids, and that it'll destroy their little souls, etc, and while that seems like a patently absurd claim in the modern era, our founding commitment to religious liberty forces courts to take that assertion seriously. Of course, said commitment doesn't mean courts have to back off the minute an unhinged fundie invokes god and let them abuse their kids any way they see fit, but... the waters do get muddy very quickly when religion enters the chat.
I don't know what your experience was, and I hope if it was an abusive one you've gotten a safe distance and some peace at minimum. I am hoping that if enough people who have had bad experiences w CPS grow up and organize, we could form some kind of law or guideline that walks the delicate line of awarding every parent their right to pass on their values and culture _without_ allowing for the abuse, neglect, or deprivation of any child on any grounds. I think it could be done, I just think the committee meetings will probably be very very long!!
Sorry for the long answer, I'm procrastinating at home. Take care!
@@katefriend4085 oh I definitely agree w you, especially that poor parents shouldn't be criminalized if they can't afford beds, or other necessities, I think they should be given more support instead, like if parents can't afford beds, okay, maybe send the kids to a relative/friend for a week or two, and help the parents access resources to afford beds. if they aren't providing beds out of pure neglect/laziness (after given resources) then more intervention is needed. But yea it's a very complex issue, especially for minority families, as rules can easily be used to descriminatie.
I didn't know you could call cps on yourself. What exactly does that mean?
@@LadyxBleu well, it means basically what it sounds like. After losing my temper and hitting my kids in poorly-regulated panic and frustration, I gave my older son a bruise under his eye. I had hit him w an open hand, but it doesn't matter -- I mean legally that's significant, but I've always felt intellectually that it's not good for kids to 'discipline' them with violence, especially when they're small, so it doesn't really matter that my hand was open at the time. On the rare occasion I tell this story, I find I 'have' to mention this fact, as if I can't help it. Anyway, my emotions overtook my convictions about the proper treatment of unruly children that day, and my beloved little son bore a mark. I felt sick and wanted to die. Instead, my partner and I comforted and talked to our son as best we could. (I have my boys' permission to tell this story.) I had hit them before, not often, always open-handed, and never quite deliberately or out of any belief that it would help the situation, but out of hapless, helpless panic, feeling a horrible regret the moment I did it, like in a nightmare. This time was different, because I had to see the effect long after we all felt more calm and back to ourselves. I couldn't pretend to myself I was just never going to do it again, it was clear I needed help. I called up my therapist, took the bus to her office, and called the CPS hotline with her there for support, and told the whole story to the call taker in between sobs. In theory, anyone can do this, and in certain circumstances it can benefit the parent as well as the child.
I had been unwell mentally for a few years when this happened, I was coming out of a really difficult to shake post - partum depression, and coming out of depression w me often looks like rage. I didn't want it to affect my kids, but how could it not?
The same day I called, a social worker called me back, and the same social worker came to our house that week. Because of my various axes of privilege outlined above, and because I'd called myself, and because everything else seemed badically okay, they decided after talking to my son not to open a case on our family, and because we live in a comparatively 'liberal' state with an actual budget for social programs, they offered me 90 days of 'parent coaching,' which I gratefully accepted. I was just stabilizing on medication for my lifelong depression at that time (which I experienced in some kind of quantum superposition with the post partum depression), and I think the coaching actually helped a lot, along with the meds. I still feel badly about that period of our family's life, but if I were to hear the whole story from someone else, I don't know that I'd judge a stranger as harshly as I do myself. I like to think I wouldn't at least.
Things are much better now than they were. Both my boys are in therapy these days, but for different reasons pertaining as much to their temperaments and the pandemic as the past. It's hard not to feel like I "broke" them sometimes. They're not actually broken though, I think they're brilliant, astonishing, beautiful kids, and I'm proud of them, and very glad that I got help w them when I did, and 'got to keep them.' The thing I really hate about this story is the uneven, unpredictable nature of US child welfare apparatus, so I always want to rush to say "results not typical!" in case someone else reaches out for help in the same way as me for the same reasons as me but in a different place, and their family and their whole life is destroyed just like that, because they weren't perceived the way I was. It's really appalling to think about.
Anyway, that is how, and why, I reported myself to CPS. I reiterate, I can't recommend it, but I will also be the first to say it worked out for us.
I LOVE the Elly + Annie collabs! Super excited Annie has started their own channel! ❤️
The dance sequence was lovely! I hope you’ve kept up with dance in some way Thanks for sharing- all of your story.
I am so happy Annie started their channel. It is very interesting to see two siblings talk about their experience in the same culty group and family. I love both of y'alls content! Cannot wait for more to come ❤️
you guys should write a book. this was fascinating to listen to.
at 27:00, while i don't like the invasion of boundaries that annie clearly mentions being made uncomfortable by in the footage, i was just in awe at their little speech. they have always been interesting 2 listen 2 it seems...
My sister and I grew up in an abusive home and have about the same number of years between us (I was 5 yr 9 mo when she was born) and I would describe our upbringing and relationship much as you are here, minus the religious & homeschool aspects. It’s incredible to me how much I can relate. I’ve shared this with her, I’m excited to learn what she thinks.
Was that the sisters song from White Christmas at the end?! Ya'll are too cute! Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I'm glad you had one another to get through the tough times, and had your creative spirits to make some really sweet memories.
Yo! Another Annie collab! They seem like a rad sibling to have.
I'm an only child but I sometimes imagine how different my life would be having one. It's probably a little difficult as children, but as adults if you get along it must be quite comforting having someone close. It's nice seeing you both interact and how your different personalities play off one another. I love this channel and it seriously needs more people watching it. I wasn't raised fundamentalist so all the varied topics that are covered teach me so much!
My friend Ella (fake name for priv) is one of 5 kids. She is the 2nd oldest, age 15, and her older brother is 17. She has an 11 - and 8 year old sister and a 2 year old brother. Her older brother has his own room, and my friend shares a room with her 11 and 8 year old sister. The 2 year old just has a crib in the parents' room, FYI. Also, my friends room consists of a loft bed with a desk underneath and then a bunkbed on the other side of the room. My friends parents hung up curtains to give my friend "her own space" but her siblings annoy her on purpose by turning on London gospel music, shining flashlights from their side of the curtains, etc. Also, my friends dresser is located in her mom's walk in closet so her mom can make sure she only wore "godly clothes" out of the house. Also, all of the kids dressers are in the walk in closet. Even the 17 year old.boys dresser. Also, my friend, who is pansexual and a demigirl, hates dressed, but her mom forces her to wear a pastel pink dress to church every Sunday, and Ella says it's unbearable. She also said that her mom forces her to have long hair, and it ALWAYS must be in 2 tight French braids tied with 2 red bows, and nothing else. (Her mom does all the girls hair in the same style every day, and nobody is allowed to complain.) Also, everyone wears a cross necklace every day no matter what, and no other jewlery is allowed. My friend doesn't even have her ears pierced cuz her mom calls it sinful. Oh and my friend has also never worn makeup, nailpolish, a completely black clothing item other than socks, and she has also never worn hair dye, fishnet anything. Also, my friends mom blocked access to a bunch of LGBT sites from her computer and iPhone, as well as a bunch of LGBT searches. My friend only discovered who she was from a book I lent her which she hid under a pile of old drawings she made on her side of the curtains. Also, my friend is allowed to read any books she wants, as long as it's from the one loca Christian bookstore. Also, she goes to public school, but her mom filed a written request to have her exempt from mandatory health ed, and any lessons on LGBTQ stuff in any other class. Also, she chose to not join the GSA yearbook photo out of fear that if her mom saw the photo, she'd be grounded for 8 weeks, and not allowed to attend the 3 week Christian overnight camp she goes to every summer in June, and she'd also be sent to her pastor for "therapy" (which is illegal because califorina banned conversion therapy) 9th
Edit: ah I see now you’ve discussed it!
Annie hiding the journal reminds me of that one part of Little Women with Amy and Jo. Funny but also probably very distressing at the time!
Speaking of which, as an only child, I did sometimes have the same feelings Annie does about the thing that stands between me and that of the older figure whose attention I want. Thing is, that older figure was a parent, and if I pulled the stunt Annie or Amy did with the things standing between me and my mom's attention (in her case the phone or her books), or the things standing between me and my dad's attention (his typewriter, paintings, cassette tapes, and sculptures), I'd have lost privileges. Because you really can't pull the same stunts on a parent as you could with an older sibling. And most parents aren't willing to spoil their kids in these particular departments because parents need me time - and they have to work and take work calls too. So any child not of the fur variety is going to be explicitly taught not to mess with their parents' stuff. And even some fur babies get those lessons to the best of people's ability to teach them.
That’s not an inherent difference between parents and siblings though, it’s just lazy parents. If my younger sibling hid or sabotaged my stuff, I would expect my parents to get them in trouble, and I’d also expect my parents to get me in trouble if I did the same thing to my sister’s stuff. And then it would also be their job to make sure that the kid who was feeling ignored got attention without violating the other kid’s privacy (they would point out “your sister is bored and wants attention”). Anyway my point is that if parents defend their own stuff more than they defend their kids’ stuff, they aren’t exactly parenting.
@@emmanarotzky6565 I agree that parents should be on the ball and defend their kids' stuff. The problem with siblings being able to pull these Little Women type gambits is when parents give older siblings all the responsibility, little to no power, and let the youngest siblings run roughshod over the older siblings' boundaries. Parents are less likely to do that to themselves either way, but parents are perfectly capable of enforcing boundaries with siblings, too. And the worst offenders in the area of NOT enforcing these boundaries always seem to be those who bleat the loudest about not letting kids become spoiled.
when you started talking abut Annie and your journal I immediately thought of Little Women!:)
Thank you so much to both of you for sharing and making humor when it can be so uncomfortable and hard to reprocess it, so excited to sub to your sibling’s new channel 💖
I have experienced similar discomfort in my own deconstruction but I still can find humor in the past simultaneously, thanks for your perspectives!!
For me the dynamic was flipped - I was the youngest with a 5-6 year age gap between me and my two older siblings and the oldest, my sister, was the rebel & black sheep while I was the golden child. She suffered much more trauma than I did since my dad stopped being as abusive as time went on and especially when he remarried (I was around 4 at that time), but I did definitely carry the burden of being the rule follower. I learned how to lie very well and constantly had that stream of anxious thought in the back of my head about everything I did to make sure it met my parents' high and often unpredictable standards. Now I have moved out and that anxiety is gone but I still will never stand up to my parents. Meanwhile my sister is low contact with them and has been able to heal from a lot of that trauma, which I am very grateful for. Thanks for sharing this video Ellie & Annie!
Welcome to the Tube Annie!!! Glad to see you back, and have been eagerly awaiting this upload Elly.
Y'alls story is so similar to what me and my siblings went through. Whoo, the part about no beds, being left alone with the kids for extremely long periods of time, and not being taught any boundaries is especially hard to listen to... I love your videos as I was also the oldest of 9 and I don't hear a lot of people talk about the guilt and regrets. The worst part is we were children and weren't taught. It's hard learning all of that once you move out and are an adult. Lol I'm glad you and your sibling are able to have a relationship. Me and mine aren't in contact and I miss them so much.
I love hearing you talk about growing up together and the fun you would have. Reminds me of growing up with my sister ❤️
This was a very insightful video. It’s very heartwarming to see a reconciled relationship. I liked the point about how swearing is a better alternative to being hurtful during “big feelings”
You talk a lot about journaling, which is great! Were you worried about your parents reading it? I was always afraid my mom would read my journals and I'd get in trouble for what I'd written, so I never wrote anything down. I asked her once if she would read them, and she said she would if she thought something was seriously wrong. So I never wrote anything down! I remember the first thing my therapist had me do was write a letter to my mom, and I hid it in my file drawer so my mom wouldn't find it
One day I came home from school and found my older sister reading my diary to my mom (who’s fully blind) and laughing their heads off. I never wrote in a journal again.
You both seem so lovely, I love these sibling talks! One can see that you care about each other a lot :) Oh and if your younger sibling is ever up to it, I would be curious to meet him as well.
I love listening to you two. Thank you Elly and Annie.
holy crap!! the sheets/pillowcase at 11:52 is on my bed right now. that’s so funny. i love hearing you two talk about your experiences!! thank u for letting us all see a glimpse into your life growing up💖
You two sisters and your footage from the chapter, " Being creative together" was awesome. I hope I spell it right, but Ellie- I'm really happy you and your sister can look back on things and laugh about it now. You're pretty badass Els. 👍
I was such a dork. What makes you brave is opening up to all of us and sharing some of the most thoughtful times of your life. You and Anna are a hoot! Thanky. 😂
thank you for putting this all out on the interwebs, this might be one of my favourite videos of yours!! Also I am not a fundie kid whatsoever and yet I related to a surprising amount of your sibling dynamic. Some things are just inherent to being siblings, I think. My sister is 4.5 years younger than me and we shared a room (with bunk beds!) until I moved out at 23. When we were kids my parents would always make her tag along to my friends' birthday parties and everything and once I reached my tweens I was not a fan of it. Also I didn't journal that much but I remember how much she resented me having to do homework instead of playing with her. Wild, you brought up so many memories. I totally did the "splitting the room in half" bit as well, lol.
My childhood was way way easier and less chaotic and traumatic than yours for sure, and I don't want to take any of your pain and trauma away. I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but maybe you can find comfort in knowing that some of the difficulties in your relationship growing up were just part of the normal growing pains, and that most siblings have those moments at one point or another
What a fantastic conversation. Thank you both!
I love to hear how you are able to put your feelings into words so well. I think it is a great gift and helps a lot of people to recognize their own feelings as well
I just have to say you truly are a performer in those old videos Elly! Fantastic video as always
Thank you for sharing your story guys!! 💕
Aleays love you're videos, and you guys' sibling Bond is amazing especially after everything you've both been through and your family dynamic, it's beautiful to see that despite the attempts of your parents (conscious or subconscious) you both have come out of it with such a strong bond! So much love and respect to you both ❤
I'm glad you guys get. along now. I also grew up in a fundamentalist family and had similar dynamics with my sister but we don't talk now. It would be nice to have things turn out differently but it is good to see that it is possible for other people to overcome.
How are the wider family reacting to your deconstruction?
That Sisters song at the end was PERFECT!
What fun this will be! I’m looking forward to the differing viewpoints. You are both so well spoken and happy to share your memories and seem so free and joyful now. ❤️🙏🏻 u
You both are so resilient and it’s so beautiful
Elly, thanks to you, I passed my A-Levels with flying colours and my relationship with my brother is so great. I am thinking about him joining me to live in Bell Suite since his grades were incredible after next year.
You were both such adorable kids. I love watching your home videos.
So excited for both of you!
So brilliant watching this because my Wife Sharon is nearly seven years older than her Sister Shonah. So mich of what Hoi say repeats her experience with her much younger sibling. This of course=is in the UK 🇬🇧 and her parents are not religious at all but she’s told me about loads of this stuff in her role as ‘Big Sister’. That whole thing of taking care of you little sister was passed down to her from a very early age. She said it felt like she was being asked to do stuff her parents should be doing.
Although they eventually got separate bedrooms her younger sister would root through all of her stuff (and as she entered puberty earlier than her Sister you can imagine how that would work out!) She had no choice but to have her younger Sister tag along when she was with her older friends. This was hard for her and I think she kind of resented it…The two Sisters are totally different
My Wife having being diagnosed at a young age with mental illness has pretty much hardly worked. This means her Sister was very young when Sharon got her diagnosis.
What has been wonderful in a way though is how her younger Sister has always protected her, fought for her and even now talks with Doctors and officials for her as a kind of advocate
That ‘explosive parenting stuff’ you both experienced with you Mum and Dad would have been experienced by my two grown up sons between their birth a mother and myself
We were married eighteen years but sometimes when you just put us together, stressed us out, we found it hard to cope, we”d explode with each other. Oh boy were those ‘fights’ big.
A lot of the time she was going for the strict parent style, lots of uncrossable boundaries, do as we say, it’s my way or the Highway and I’m just being my totally cool fully liberal self. So this leads to the classic ‘you never back me up in front of the children. More fighting, more shouting, more disagreements and her screaming at me ‘well if you would just grow a pair for once!’
Honestly I am so sorry our children had to see this and to this day I wonder what it did to them both?
They’ve done well in their lives and they both seem stable but I just know watching us fight like that must have harmed them in some way. One amazing thing though is that both boys are self reliant, strong in a good way, mainly tolerant and as far as I can see emotionally well adjusted.
It’s true I was far from perfect in that marriage and with our children. I was bullied as a kid in a big way at school. It left a mark on me. Looking as objectively as I can back all those years ago and back on my first Wife it’s hard to say this but to be honest she was in some ways a bit of a bully. Now I don’t mean physically with any of us but I would say emotionally and mentally
To this day I will never forget a time when it was raining really hard and she would not yet our oldest Son back into the warmth of the car until he had said a word he had just learned ‘correctly’. I knew she would jace started on me if I just opened the locked doors anyway and I of course tried to make her back down but he stayed out in the rain and cold until her got the word right. Even to this day and that must be over 23 years ago now, I will never forget that instance.
(I should add that he tells me at some point after we split she recalled the incident with him and admitted that was a terrible thing to do and asked her to forgive him) It’s not an excuse but her Father as she told me once could be very demanding with her and often called her ‘stupid’ if she could not get something right)
I really want to meet your youngest sibling too! Annie is so cool
Being an only child growing up really damaged me especially with the religious aspect leaving me isolated to it without someone to comfort or help me. But I can't imagine having siblings because I know that they would have fully leaned into everything my abuser said. My heart goes out to everybody who suffered the way I have suffered. And the thing is is that I actually have siblings. My dad just sort of let them drift apart to be adopted out to other people and kept me. It's crazy how religion works and how you can just give away all the children that you don't want and keep the ones that you do want. I did have two siblings in home while growing up but that's a long story on why I didn't for long.
yesss, how cool!! subscribed to annie's channel right away! =D
I haven't even watched your video yet, but I am pretty sure that middle picture is you and your sister performing the song "Sisters" from White Christmas because my Fundy sister and I also sang it, although we never had the fans, jelly.
OK. Now I want to meet Iver. Please tell me he's escaped too!!!
I'm glad you two are able to have difficilt discussions and be willing to share them. Thank you.
Side note: have you seen the new Little Women yet? If so, do you prefer that one or the Winona Ryder one?
I would loooove if you two started a podcast together!
I immediately thought of that scene in Little Women and when you mentioned it, I thought, are you gonna use the clip of Winona Ryder and Kirsten Dunst or of Saoirse Ronan and Florence Pugh? Lol
loved the white christmas dance at the end😀
Thank you for a very informative channel!
Will you by any means make a video about the economy of people in the "quiverfull movement" (or quiverfull behavior, rather)? The subject interests me becuse I can't really get the numbers to add up around having dozens of kids.
Other fundamentalist movements with very large families such as the amish or ultra-orthodox jews tend to have some industry, agricultural or otherwise, wich they work in, and also employ each other and support each other economically, making this lifestyle possible and create an incentive to stay within the sect. I have heared some preacher of quiverfull ideology ecourage their disciples to isolate their families even from each other. How does this affect the sustenance of these very large families? Do they manage to cooperate to make ends meet? Do these families tend to live geographically close to each other?
Also, how do they prepare their sons to become breadwinners? Are there any specific career paths they are encouraged to take? Training schools for suitable jobs run by likeminded churches? Job programs? (Or complete lack of such)? Could you tell us something else about the economic aspects of how this movement tries to make their lifestyle prevail?
Y'all remind me of me and my little sister -- maybe not in the specific details, but in the general dynamic: the goody-two-shoes older one, and the cool rebellious younger one. I guess it's a universal sibling dynamic, to some extent. The oldest sibling is always expected to be a little more "perfect".
It ended differently for us, though... My younger sister ended up getting _hardcore_ invested in religion after a big move where she had to start high school in a very unfamiliar area. A local stereotypical right-wing southern Christian church became her entire support system. At that time I was just starting college and had much more autonomy, and could finally rebel a little, and I ended up leaving :p
You are both so beautiful ❤️ inside and out. And you look so sweet as kids.
Hearing this it makes me worried for fundie kids still in the mess
I would recognize that "sisters" dance from White Christmas anywhere--even without music! 😆
When Ellie was trying to describe her parents personality, something I've heard people say is "they're all id," as in, their minds are consumed with basic impulses and drives and instincts with little time spent on higher level thinking. Maybe I'm just prejudiced, but I think this is really common for fundamentalists and far right people. The only way they see to curb their impulses, which they realize are often self destructive and antisocial, is total submission to higher authority. They have no way to imagine that some people can just... make a decision to not be horrible even if it felt right.
Hi Elly and Annie, I love this video! I do not have a fundamentalist background, so I was wondering, what is the organization “above rubies” that you mentioned? You said you were embarrassed/horrified by it but I’m not sure what it is so I was just wondering.
I heard Elly mention this before but they said that above rubies is a group that their parents got involved with I think above rubies was on tv? Anyways from what I heard above rubies is a horrible group I’m thinking elly can explain more about it?
@@PokemonRules333 I tried to google it but could not find much, it seems to be some sort of fundamentalist group aimed at women though.
Ohhh, so that's their channel I got in my recommendations today!
7:23 OMG That is both cute and hilarious at the same time.
The way your sibling talks about being annoyed at being filmed and not having control over what is shown reminds me of all the kids trapped in family vlogging on TH-cam for their family's income. :/
Good on you to apologize to your sibling, but you were also relatively young & can't be faulted too much for not acting better.
I believe they prefer the term 'sibling' to 'sister'... (we're all learning together how to use language in more inclusive ways)!
@@devidaughter7782 Thank you. I changed the word to sibling.
I hadn't noticed anyone in this video saying not to call them sister or even not to use "she" as a pronoun, so her sibling's name and appearance made me default to the word sister.
Skimming through the video transcript now, I see they used "sibling" the whole time and did use "they" in reference to the sibling. Still, there's a difference between using one word and making a clear statement that you prefer not to have another word used.
For example, if I repeatedly refer to myself as a teacher and then someone calls me an educator, that's something I'm fine with even though I never used the word educator in my own speech.
So, if this request to not use "sister" or for only "they" pronouns to be used (from which I'd deduce it's probable that only "sibling" should be used - but perhaps still not certain, since every individual has their own set of language preferences) was in the video, I apologize for not catching it.
@@Dreamprism thanks for your receptivity to dialogue about this; we're all learning! I realized that I automatically used 'she' for Elly in my comment, and didn't even think to use 'they'! it's a learning curve for us all, and I think what's important is to keep asking questions, remaining curious and open... while having grace for ourselves and others!
Home schooling is a good thing, and I think parents should have enough time off from work to teach their kids, so let's make a 20hour work week the standard for full time work.
Public schooling is also a good thing, and I think every elementary school class should stay together, year by year, instead of being jumbled together in a new class each year. I think it would be a beneficial thing if kids had the opportunity to stay together over a span of years, with the same teacher or maybe change teachers after four years, but forming a bond between the kids would be a good thing.
One idea for a collab video could be talking about gender identity after deconstructing from fundamentalism. I am connected to quite a few ex-fundies on here and for AFAB ex-fundies, a queer gender identity seems to be the norm rather than the exception. I fall into this category as well as someone who is fluid between a few non-binary identities. When you grow up with so much trauma around your gender, it makes sense to want to distance yourself from that as part of deconstruction.
I’d also imagine that those who instinctively know they’re different gender or sexuality wise are more likely to deconstruct because they can never fit into the cishet mould no matter what they do. It’s easier to fit into a mould that is actually applicable to you even though being a cishet fundie isn’t exactly easy, especially for women. Being a fundie is like being told to climb a huge tree with one hand. If you have hands it’s a difficult but not an impossible task, but if you don’t have hands you’re never going to do it so why even bother?
Perfecto!
They have a sibling! And that sibling is a TH-camr! I'ma check that out.
I thing they both prefer the term sibling, just for your information.
@@flora8770 My mistake. Fixing it. Thank you.
"There's your ministry right there!" 😅 noooo he didn't lololol
I love the Bible trivia adverts on your videos lololol
I just love the fact that the two of you are both not the cisgender women you were supposed to be. I am cracking up. I am an ex Catholic for obvious reasons, I am a practicing Episcopalian and my church is accepting of all and youd be right at home
"Lord help the sister who comes between me and my man!" I recognized the ending. But that strikes me as not fundie so maybe I have it wrong. 🤷♀️
Were you allowed to watch TV like Nickelodeon when you were growing up?
With the way that your parents relationship was, you would likely have “issues “ to deal with, fundie or not. Don’t mean that to sound insulting or anything, but it sounds like they were fanatically messed up. Hope you continue to find health and happiness and peace.
I would say i was tired. All the time
That song Above All is painful to listen to. It reminds me of the emotional baggage of Jesus' death strapped to me and so many other fundies at a young age.
It's so funny. We swear in front of our kids but we tell them not to say those words in front of teachers. BUT, neither of them swear. Ever. It's weird. I think they think it's old or something?
Sub standard living conditions are so common among fundie children. I’m not surprised at all you two were sleeping on the floor for years. It makes me so angry that fundie parents can write off any of their transgressions as something to do with the bible. The excuses people pull from religion in order to continue failing and abusing their families (and the wider community) is truly mind boggling.