My favorite pipe dream is re-extending the green line, and then using Jackson Park as one of the terminus of a new line that follows 63rd and then goes right up Western ave. Right now I think needing to go downtown to go anywhere else on the CTA is one of its bigger flaws, and a line on Western would allow for a lot of connections that don't require going to the loop.
A line on Western would make several Metra lines that currently have poor connectivity so much more useful. MD-N, MD-W, and BNSF would all suddenly have direct and relatively fast cta connection to all over near west side, essentially going from being purely radial lines designed with nothing else in mind than moving people downtown to having good last mile connectivity over a large part of the city overnight.
I remember when the 63rd Street ‘L was torn down east of Cottage Grove. The decision was controversial both then and now. Bishop Brazier wanted the tracks torn down for selfish reasons, because he didn’t want the train going pass his church. Tearing down the tracks benefited nobody but him, and that area is still nothing but vacant lots to this day. No new development.
Additionally, not only would the Jackson Park station provide easy access (about 7-8 blocks away) to the Museum of Science and Industry in beautiful Jackson Park (one of the nation's leading museums), but the new Obama Presidential Center and Library with several exhibits, athletic facility, and landscaped gardens, would be only 2 blocks from the Jackson Park station.
Metra should build 2 new tunnels connecting Union to Olgvie and Olgvie to LaSalle to allow through running of services and providing an additional high frequency rapid transit service in downtown
You know, I just going to say this.....t's easy to look at a map and say these two railroad stations should be linked by tunnel. What's not easy is getting the people in the right-of-way on board with the project without any major lawsuits (and because this is the USA there WILL be lawsuits from at least ONE person along the route who fails to understand the importance of said project and put their "rights" first), trying buy up property within the City of Chicago which is expensive, and properly digging the tunnel without disrupting too much. Since what you're asking is connecting two semi-elevated train terminals with a tunnel, that tunnel can't be built quiet with a TBM. It going to need to be dug up the old fashioned "Cut-N-Cover" way which means hollowing out streets to build said tunnel. Not to mention, you can do all of that and still have some sort of money woe come and stop the project in it's tracks. Think Block 37 and The 2nd Ave Subway. This is why there so many disconnected train terminal around the country. I remember hearing about the crap SEPTA had to go through to connect their two railway terminals in Philadelphia. The project started in 1963! It wasn't until November 84 when it opened and what we got was half-assed to say the least because of so many money woes and protests from Chinatown.
Or they could just make Union station have more than 1 through tracks. Also as much as us railfans/urbanists like to promote through running stations/tunnels, they are not often the best investment. While they can add some more one seat rides, they don’t solve bigger issues like frequency and sometimes worse reliability.
Neither of those really make sense in practice. OTC and CUS are so close that it would be easier and probably more efficient to just use the through running capability of CUS (The easternmost tracks and mail platforms). A crosstown tunnel from the CNW freight spur that used to serve Blommer Chocolate and the Tribune, north of OTC, with connections to Millennium and CUS would enable frequent through running. And the St. Charles Air Line connection would enable running from CUS onto the Rock Island tracks.
If you’re going to ask for rapid transit on the West Bank of the South Branch of the Chicago River to Serve Chicago Union Station and OTC, they should dig a Blue Line Clinton Street Subway down from Milwaukee Ave. South to Congress/Ida B. Wells Pkwy to make a Blue Line Loop so trains can either be “UIC Halstead Via Clinton St” or “Forest Park Via Dearborn St”
I would love to see the Purple Line trains run express between Howard & Belmont (stopping only at Wilson Station) not just during rush hours, but everyday all day, & yes, extending it to 63rd/Ashland, following the Red Line between Belmont & Roosevelt I'm also for.
The Green Line should absolutely be extended back to Jackson Park but also part of the Metra Electric service should be converted to CTA Rapid Transit for the Gold Line that community leaders have been talking about for so long, then do a proper CTA transfer station at the new Gold Line.
I don’t think CTA will ever extend the green line back to Stony Island because of the pushback from the people who live in Woodlawn in those new town houses along 63rd. I can’t see them wanting the L tracks running in front of those expensive developments
Terminating at Cottage Grove means no interchange to the Metra 'Lectra in Woodland, making the Alley L useless for anything other than going between South Side Chicago and the Loop. I would also put an interchange hub at 63rd & Yale called Englewood which would be served by the Dan Ryan and South Side Els & also by Metra as well as possibly Amtrak if they pass through the area. Back in the day, there was a station here & it was the Clapham Junction of the United States. Old timetables had adverts that if you wanted to go between the east coast & California you could avoid travel through Chicago by changing trains at Englewood.
Your Purple Line re-route idea would also fix the issue of the Purple Line being slower than the Red Line south of Belmont. I don't know if the State St. Subway could handle a combined Red/Purple service though, and you'd lose the benefit the Purple Line currently has of being a Brown Line capacity reliever. Regardless of service pattern, the Jackson Park extension should 100 percent be built, and should theoretically be pretty cheap to do so if it's all built over the street (thus avoiding land acquisition costs). It would complement the coming Obama Center very well. Just need to get the neighbors in that area on board.
The Red Line prior to the Belmont flyover ran every two minutes. The CTA said that the Belmont flyover will add 6-9 tph on the Red Line, so it is reasonable to assume the whole of the State St Subway can handle 36-39 tph. Even so, I started out with 30, and gave 20 to the Red Line and 10 to the Purple. If demand changes, we can change this split. I also designed the Clark Interlocking so that the Brown Line won't have any merges until the Loop, which means the Brown Line can absorb that extra capacity. The Brown Line is on the outer Loop tracks, where there is extra capacity to be spared, which means this won't be an issue. The only issue that I see is that the CTA has to buy more trains and expand the Racine Yard, which is doable. Hope this answers your concerns!
Southbound Metra Electric service is scheduled for 17 min from Millennium to 63rd. Northbound runs take the same amount of time in reality, but the scheduled time between Van Buren St and Millennium is given almost 20 minutes of padding on weekends.
While I do agree with the Green Line extension to Jackson Park, I think the most feasible would be running Pink Line to Cottage Grove with limited stops towards Cottage Grove/Jackson Park due to the condition of Green Line tracks but making all stops towards loop and 54th/Cermak. The Brown and Purple are too busy to be running that far south. The Brown Line already receives cars from the Orange for rush hour. The Pink Line already connects to Fulton Market, leaving Ashland/63rd open for Red Line trains having to reroute. This also further avoids clogging up the Clark Junction and the North Side Main Line. Doubling back to the reroute, Green Line trains can then go back to Cottage Grove temporarily with Pink Line trains stopping at the loop, which preexisting signage on trains exists for pretty much all of that.
Your green line to Metra connection to go farther South doesn’t make sense since there is already a red line extension to 130th underway, and Metra runs on commuter schedule, not regular frequency of CTA trains. Many of the L lines used to go farther than current.
That sounds like a feasible project. If it could honestly benefit riders more than annoy them, I think it should be implemented. As someone who lives in Buffalo Grove and works in Palatine, it wouldn't affect me at all. I see how it could affect certain populations living in the south end.
I am all for extending the Green Line to Jackson Park. I would create an improved connection in the Loop so that MED riders could connect with Loop 'L' trains quickly (and vice versa). I also like the idea of interlining the Purple Line with the Jackson Park line. I would also suggest extending the Purple Line platforms to at least 8 cars in length.
Wouldn't it be cool if a new line was creating by joining the two branches as an east-west line serving the whole 63rd St. corridor from Midway to Jackson Park? That would be friggin' awesome! I do like your ideas, though. Probably more realistic and doable. Making the purple line full time would be lovely. I've often had similar ideas of rerouting the brown line through the subway and then coming out of the tunnel to merge on the orange line tracks to Midway. The present alignment for brown and purple trains on the old el is slow as molasses in January!
What about connecting the two branches through 63rd St and making a connection with the 63rd St Red Line station. Then, you can also extend west to Midway Airport and connect with the Orange Line too.
Chicago Politics will never let that occur, especially during our lifetime. Great video, just have to really give detailed backstory on why the Jackson Park Branch is now a stub branch.
I would propose the renovation of two lines: Purple: Linden - Western Green: Harlem - Jackson Park/Cottage Grove (if the creation of the new stations never materialized)
The story why they tore it down is tragic. Bad decisions by the community itself who asked for it to go. Not clear CTA will ever re-extend, it might create bad incentives... if they do it might be decades from now
They need to rebuild the whole section 🔙 to Jackson Park especially for the Obama Presidential 📚 & also resurrected as many lost Ⓜ️ & lines/branches as possible
To be honest, Metra would still be way faster than taking the Green Line for people going downtown. If we just had less regional fragmentation then the Green Line extension there would be superfluous. Even the Red Line Extension would be significantly less useful if we simply made ME more frequent and cheaper for all riders.
If your extending the Purple line, why not just extend the Red over the Skokie Swift (I’ve also thought of extending the Metra Electric Corridor to replace it as well, possibly to Wadsworth and Six Flags depending on expansion of Amtrak service and talks with CPKC-which would be the better route anyway
If you run Purple Line trains to 63/Ashland, they would have to run the entire line all times except nights, just switch them over to Red Line tracks south of Belmont instead for their approach to 63/Ashland, I agree, let the Purple Line be the adult during the day, too!!
My dream idea would be for the green line to extend to Woodlawn, then fly up over the Metra tracks, take a right going south to descend onto the middle tracks of Metra and take the 67th street Metra portal to run on the tracks of the Metra electric district south Chicago branch. Of course Metra will never sell the south Chicago branch because when south shore is gentrified, the south Chicago branch will become profitable for the first time ever.
Blame the spades for this one, not the CTA. Notice all the empty lots along 63rd st... Those used to be homes and businesses that were burned out, abandoned, and otherwise destroyed by the people who live in that neighborhood.
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My favorite pipe dream is re-extending the green line, and then using Jackson Park as one of the terminus of a new line that follows 63rd and then goes right up Western ave. Right now I think needing to go downtown to go anywhere else on the CTA is one of its bigger flaws, and a line on Western would allow for a lot of connections that don't require going to the loop.
A line on Western would make several Metra lines that currently have poor connectivity so much more useful. MD-N, MD-W, and BNSF would all suddenly have direct and relatively fast cta connection to all over near west side, essentially going from being purely radial lines designed with nothing else in mind than moving people downtown to having good last mile connectivity over a large part of the city overnight.
I remember when the 63rd Street ‘L was torn down east of Cottage Grove. The decision was controversial both then and now. Bishop Brazier wanted the tracks torn down for selfish reasons, because he didn’t want the train going pass his church. Tearing down the tracks benefited nobody but him, and that area is still nothing but vacant lots to this day. No new development.
Yea, Brazier and Leon Finny jr and his TWO….The Woodlawn Organization. Pure selfish reasons.
Additionally, not only would the Jackson Park station provide easy access (about 7-8 blocks away) to the Museum of Science and Industry in beautiful Jackson Park (one of the nation's leading museums), but the new Obama Presidential Center and Library with several exhibits, athletic facility, and landscaped gardens, would be only 2 blocks from the Jackson Park station.
The Green Line should be re-extended to Jackson Park because of the future. Obama Presidential Library by Jackson Park
Metra should build 2 new tunnels connecting Union to Olgvie and Olgvie to LaSalle to allow through running of services and providing an additional high frequency rapid transit service in downtown
You know, I just going to say this.....t's easy to look at a map and say these two railroad stations should be linked by tunnel.
What's not easy is getting the people in the right-of-way on board with the project without any major lawsuits (and because this is the USA there WILL be lawsuits from at least ONE person along the route who fails to understand the importance of said project and put their "rights" first), trying buy up property within the City of Chicago which is expensive, and properly digging the tunnel without disrupting too much. Since what you're asking is connecting two semi-elevated train terminals with a tunnel, that tunnel can't be built quiet with a TBM. It going to need to be dug up the old fashioned "Cut-N-Cover" way which means hollowing out streets to build said tunnel. Not to mention, you can do all of that and still have some sort of money woe come and stop the project in it's tracks. Think Block 37 and The 2nd Ave Subway.
This is why there so many disconnected train terminal around the country. I remember hearing about the crap SEPTA had to go through to connect their two railway terminals in Philadelphia. The project started in 1963! It wasn't until November 84 when it opened and what we got was half-assed to say the least because of so many money woes and protests from Chinatown.
Or they could just make Union station have more than 1 through tracks. Also as much as us railfans/urbanists like to promote through running stations/tunnels, they are not often the best investment. While they can add some more one seat rides, they don’t solve bigger issues like frequency and sometimes worse reliability.
Neither of those really make sense in practice. OTC and CUS are so close that it would be easier and probably more efficient to just use the through running capability of CUS (The easternmost tracks and mail platforms).
A crosstown tunnel from the CNW freight spur that used to serve Blommer Chocolate and the Tribune, north of OTC, with connections to Millennium and CUS would enable frequent through running. And the St. Charles Air Line connection would enable running from CUS onto the Rock Island tracks.
"crayons on a map" isn't really helpful here
If you’re going to ask for rapid transit on the West Bank of the South Branch of the Chicago River to Serve Chicago Union Station and OTC, they should dig a Blue Line Clinton Street Subway down from Milwaukee Ave.
South to Congress/Ida B. Wells Pkwy to make a Blue Line Loop so trains can either be “UIC Halstead Via Clinton St” or “Forest Park Via Dearborn St”
I'm all in for extending the green line
I would love to see the Purple Line trains run express between Howard & Belmont (stopping only at Wilson Station) not just during rush hours, but everyday all day, & yes, extending it to 63rd/Ashland, following the Red Line between Belmont & Roosevelt I'm also for.
also the engle wood branch sould go all the way to meet the express bus on western avenue.
The Green Line should absolutely be extended back to Jackson Park but also part of the Metra Electric service should be converted to CTA Rapid Transit for the Gold Line that community leaders have been talking about for so long, then do a proper CTA transfer station at the new Gold Line.
Would love to see a video about the High Speed Rail Association's Crossrail/Chicago HUB Improvement Project!
The Jackson park station closed in 1893. The terminal after that was Stony Island until they demolished the bridge over the IC tracks.
I don’t think CTA will ever extend the green line back to Stony Island because of the pushback from the people who live in Woodlawn in those new town houses along 63rd. I can’t see them wanting the L tracks running in front of those expensive developments
I hope you're wrong, but I fear your right
Terminating at Cottage Grove means no interchange to the Metra 'Lectra in Woodland, making the Alley L useless for anything other than going between South Side Chicago and the Loop.
I would also put an interchange hub at 63rd & Yale called Englewood which would be served by the Dan Ryan and South Side Els & also by Metra as well as possibly Amtrak if they pass through the area. Back in the day, there was a station here & it was the Clapham Junction of the United States. Old timetables had adverts that if you wanted to go between the east coast & California you could avoid travel through Chicago by changing trains at Englewood.
Those stops would have been fantastic when I lived down there
What about including a connection between the Metra Rock Island District, Green Line Englewood Branch, and the Red Line in Englewood?
Your Purple Line re-route idea would also fix the issue of the Purple Line being slower than the Red Line south of Belmont. I don't know if the State St. Subway could handle a combined Red/Purple service though, and you'd lose the benefit the Purple Line currently has of being a Brown Line capacity reliever. Regardless of service pattern, the Jackson Park extension should 100 percent be built, and should theoretically be pretty cheap to do so if it's all built over the street (thus avoiding land acquisition costs). It would complement the coming Obama Center very well. Just need to get the neighbors in that area on board.
The Red Line prior to the Belmont flyover ran every two minutes. The CTA said that the Belmont flyover will add 6-9 tph on the Red Line, so it is reasonable to assume the whole of the State St Subway can handle 36-39 tph. Even so, I started out with 30, and gave 20 to the Red Line and 10 to the Purple. If demand changes, we can change this split.
I also designed the Clark Interlocking so that the Brown Line won't have any merges until the Loop, which means the Brown Line can absorb that extra capacity. The Brown Line is on the outer Loop tracks, where there is extra capacity to be spared, which means this won't be an issue. The only issue that I see is that the CTA has to buy more trains and expand the Racine Yard, which is doable.
Hope this answers your concerns!
@@jointransitassociation Why not making an Entirely new line to serve it similar to the Pink Line which was created from a former Blue Line Branch.
Of course, the real world issue is, as always, where do you get the money to do all of this?
Southbound Metra Electric service is scheduled for 17 min from Millennium to 63rd. Northbound runs take the same amount of time in reality, but the scheduled time between Van Buren St and Millennium is given almost 20 minutes of padding on weekends.
You need to be a public speaker at a CTA board meeting.
While I do agree with the Green Line extension to Jackson Park, I think the most feasible would be running Pink Line to Cottage Grove with limited stops towards Cottage Grove/Jackson Park due to the condition of Green Line tracks but making all stops towards loop and 54th/Cermak. The Brown and Purple are too busy to be running that far south. The Brown Line already receives cars from the Orange for rush hour. The Pink Line already connects to Fulton Market, leaving Ashland/63rd open for Red Line trains having to reroute. This also further avoids clogging up the Clark Junction and the North Side Main Line. Doubling back to the reroute, Green Line trains can then go back to Cottage Grove temporarily with Pink Line trains stopping at the loop, which preexisting signage on trains exists for pretty much all of that.
Your green line to Metra connection to go farther South doesn’t make sense since there is already a red line extension to 130th underway, and Metra runs on commuter schedule, not regular frequency of CTA trains. Many of the L lines used to go farther than current.
the red line in fact servered the englewood branch in 2013 and 2017-2019 so having the red line would make more sense
That sounds like a feasible project. If it could honestly benefit riders more than annoy them, I think it should be implemented. As someone who lives in Buffalo Grove and works in Palatine, it wouldn't affect me at all. I see how it could affect certain populations living in the south end.
I am all for extending the Green Line to Jackson Park. I would create an improved connection in the Loop so that MED riders could connect with Loop 'L' trains quickly (and vice versa). I also like the idea of interlining the Purple Line with the Jackson Park line. I would also suggest extending the Purple Line platforms to at least 8 cars in length.
Wouldn't it be cool if a new line was creating by joining the two branches as an east-west line serving the whole 63rd St. corridor from Midway to Jackson Park? That would be friggin' awesome! I do like your ideas, though. Probably more realistic and doable. Making the purple line full time would be lovely. I've often had similar ideas of rerouting the brown line through the subway and then coming out of the tunnel to merge on the orange line tracks to Midway. The present alignment for brown and purple trains on the old el is slow as molasses in January!
What about connecting the two branches through 63rd St and making a connection with the 63rd St Red Line station. Then, you can also extend west to Midway Airport and connect with the Orange Line too.
6:33 Or You could make an Entirely new line to serve it similar to the Pink Line was created from a former Blue Line Branch.
Great plan
Chicago Politics will never let that occur, especially during our lifetime. Great video, just have to really give detailed backstory on why the Jackson Park Branch is now a stub branch.
Stub status will change as Woodlawn is "Re- Developed".
Can u please talk abt the cta blue line forest park branch
I would propose the renovation of two lines:
Purple: Linden - Western
Green: Harlem - Jackson Park/Cottage Grove (if the creation of the new stations never materialized)
Extending to Jackson Park to New Barrack Obama Presidential Library is a Good Ideal.
The story why they tore it down is tragic. Bad decisions by the community itself who asked for it to go. Not clear CTA will ever re-extend, it might create bad incentives... if they do it might be decades from now
They need to rebuild the whole section 🔙 to Jackson Park especially for the Obama Presidential 📚 & also resurrected as many lost Ⓜ️ & lines/branches as possible
The worst thing about an El is that it is easy to get rid of the tracks if service is cut back.
To be honest, Metra would still be way faster than taking the Green Line for people going downtown. If we just had less regional fragmentation then the Green Line extension there would be superfluous. Even the Red Line Extension would be significantly less useful if we simply made ME more frequent and cheaper for all riders.
If ideas were the missing piece needed to pull this off, then why can’t the CTA just take his idea or his friend?
The politicians are car-brained to extend to the O-Block Park.
Money for more trains and expanding the Racine Yard.
If your extending the Purple line, why not just extend the Red over the Skokie Swift (I’ve also thought of extending the Metra Electric Corridor to replace it as well, possibly to Wadsworth and Six Flags depending on expansion of Amtrak service and talks with CPKC-which would be the better route anyway
The Yellow Line Platforms cannot hold more than 2-4 Train Cars
Wow. Amazing. Yes yes yes
If you run Purple Line trains to 63/Ashland, they would have to run the entire line all times except nights, just switch them over to Red Line tracks south of Belmont instead for their approach to 63/Ashland, I agree, let the Purple Line be the adult during the day, too!!
My dream idea would be for the green line to extend to Woodlawn, then fly up over the Metra tracks, take a right going south to descend onto the middle tracks of Metra and take the 67th street Metra portal to run on the tracks of the Metra electric district south Chicago branch. Of course Metra will never sell the south Chicago branch because when south shore is gentrified, the south Chicago branch will become profitable for the first time ever.
Tech Transiiit 😃
Has this been shared with anybody making decisions at CTA?.............
Not a bad idea.
IMO reextending the green line is unnecessary, they should just lower METRA fares to match the CTA and run METRA services more frequently.
extending it seems like a waste by looks of it there would be better transit projects per dollar
It's obvious you are expanding to other rail.systems. New Yorkers, your audience know very little about CTA..
why not all the way to the63rd street beach so the poor peoplecan cool themselves off i by swimming in the lake in the summer.
Blame the spades for this one, not the CTA. Notice all the empty lots along 63rd st... Those used to be homes and businesses that were burned out, abandoned, and otherwise destroyed by the people who live in that neighborhood.
Metra Electric fare from 59th is $2 now but it still doesn’t come with any transfers.