This was very enlightening. Hadn't seen anyone else talk about this, and I realized how prevalent it truly was in my voice, unbeknownst to me. Thanks for the post!
Well... The last part was really interesting, i think it'd be worth doing this again for mix, chest, falsetto/head voice demonstration, to see how the vocal folds work in each part of the voice. I strongly believe that doing that will help understanding function.
I thought I was just over-compressing, (which was creating a ceiling and more and more effort was required to go higher), but I’ve learned from this I was using the false folds/grandpa voice all the time! As you say, you can sort of ‘get’ the notes with a lot of effort, but it’s just one sound, I’m very grateful for this lesson
Thank you Greg! I knew what I was doing was wrong, and I even knew it was called the valsalva maneuver/grandpa voice. I discovered it when I was learning how to scream and noticed I could scream higher than I could sing. I started out with a high screamed note, then backed off on the distortion and found my grandpa voice. I'm having difficulty moving on from there, but it's good to know that it's not helping me progress from here.
Oh my god, i have a colleague, who has exactly this type of thing going on when he's doing high notes. I thought it was just his "natural" timbre and quality of a voice. Never thought of it like that. I'm going to show him this video. Thanks!
Hey Greg thanks grate video! Speaking in CVT terms and referring to CVT research, they show that false vocal folds are activated=contricted in metalic modes and in neutral are retracted, specially in curbing, as in overdrive and edge there is a certain amount of false vocal folds activation but the main aspect of the laryng gesture is the AnteroPosterior gap aproximation more linked with the epiglotis and twang . I understand then that if with that grandpa sound you kind of control the closure of the false vocal folds, a certain degree of that is necesarry in all metalic sound, but if you overdo it, it will leads you toward a more squeze soiund/curbing and if you want a more powered but not hold like overdrive or edge you have to let it go a bit the false vocal cord activation/ grandpa and rely more on support or twang, but a little of FVF is still there I reckon, at least that s how I understand and feel but it just my currrent perspective, never can be 100% sure ...Anyway thanks for your content take care!
I studied your grandpa versus belt example in a harmonic analyzer, and it showed more frequencies in the grandpa example. Both indicated Edge, grandpa being a darker Edge. Thought that was interesting. Your Edge almost sounds like Overdrive at times, but the harmonics don't taper off the sides in a ramp-like manner as you would get with Overdrive. Edge has that staggered long, short, long harmonic pattern. In your belt example, the first harmonic is nowhere to be seen. In the grandpa version, it is poking up a little bit, and low in amplitude compared to your second, third, fourth, and fifth harmonics. In order to see all that, I had to pitch down so that the right side of the piano roll was visible. Great demonstrations, and I agree that Grandpa voice is not useful to developing mixed voice (Curbing). Flageolet is, especially if you bring it down as low as you can- which is interesting, since we don't really sing with that sound in a performance.
Bro that analysis of the vocal cord tracts is really useful and helpful Would also love to see more of those with the mix voice and different intensities of head to chest. Like scales and higher pitch or even like a cover!! Like a song such as a Bruno Mars song and what that looks like in the throat! That would be pretty cool
That was amazing... I think I just found a video describing my number one problem in singing. Am I right in thinking that the false vocal folds are also responsible for establishing a hold as taught in CVT when utilized correctly?
This video is gold. I've spend some time singing with grandpa voice without knowing it. Every time I tried to flip from the grandpa voice (at the time I thought it was my regular mixed voice) to my head voice or falsetto, it felt like I had to stop the air flow, change gears on my voice and then start singing again. Any tips on how to NOT engage the grandpa voice? Since I've spend some time using it, it's pretty hard not to unconsciously use it.
Grandpa voice 'feels' like extreme cry to me without releasing your M1 as much While mixed voice feels like you focus on resonance more and releases M1 a bit more. Grandpa voice tires my voice out extremely quickly so i tend to avoid it
Hey Greg! Super informative video, per always. Thank you for that! I'm curious, it seems like the mechanism for producing grandpa voice, which if I understand correctly is essentially the adducting or approximating of the ventricular folds, is the same mechanism used to produce the CVT “hold” that's required for curbing/any reduced density sound. Is that correct? It seems like maybe the primary difference between grandpa and standard curbing is that Grandpa doesn't have necessary twang. Is that mainly it, or are there other factors?
im bloody well doing this voice and it works sometimes to get mix and others it doesnt, that lighter mix is my issue and cant seem to coordinate it , grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Is flageolet a type of grandpa voice ? I know I once discovered grnad pa voice but it didn't feel good soo I went away from that direction ... Now I'm starting to coordinate flageolet tension so I hope I'm on the right path haha
Yes, focus on twanged sounds. Very bright, high larynx, nasty. And training your voice to move flexibly into falsetto in a smooth and continuous way. Those things are sort of antithetical to hyper compression so it should help! :)
Don't be concerned if it isn't there -it will present whether you want it to or not....hahaha when you're 63 like me, the challenge is getting the buzz out! 🙀😹 ...what was with Louie Armstrong's growl/gurgle/distortion? XoXo
I'm having trouble negotiating my high notes. I think I can only hit them with grandpa voice and oversqueezing. I can stop using it, but then I lose the range :( any help would be appreciated
What is the feeling of the Grandpa voice? I have the Grandpa quality in what I consider my mix but I feel resonance in my head, my nose area and sometimes the front of my upper teeth if that makes sense but it feels lighter in my mouth but sounds belty on the outside
I think ur mix should feel very free and can hit about 1 extra octave above ur highest chest voice note. Grandpa voice is when the higher u sing the more u struggle.
@@1029944 I can hit a couple of notes way above my chest in this coordination but it starts to get heady around C5... I guess it's a kuc after all. Thank you.
@@StudioWestLessons it has a bit of brendon urie quality to it. Let me further explain the sensations I feel when I'm in this coordination, it has a bit feeling of my chest voice but it's very easy to do than my actual chest voice and it's a lighter than my chest voice but unlike the chest voice, when I'm in this coordination, I feel it resonate in my head, nose area(mostly like the upper part of my nose) and the region between my front upper teeth and nose if that makes sense🤷. I got into this coordination about 3 weeks ago while trying out the exercises(the Nay exercise) you gave in finding your mixed voice video. Though I can't use it in songs yet.
Gregory could you do a video on like the husky voice like the dog sound and how that helps. Kinda like those huskies that talk Also zombie voice and how that applies as well to singing
So what you're trying to say is basically not to overcompress in the high range ? 🤔 Greg, i know rock/metal is not your thing, but this grandpa voice "concept", reminded me a lot what Bruce Dickinson is doing right now...nowadays I can't tell the difference between him and a high pitch shifted grandpa Simpson lol, seriously...i mean, to be fair (and not a total dick about it), in 2014 he got sick, diagnosed with tongue cancer...but the overcompressing thing was already happening pre-cancer for at least solid 20 years...and Bruce has always been a major influence as vocalist for me, a true master of belty harsh vocals...in the 80s, at his prime, he was unbelievable, a beast of a singer...he is a legend and always will be...but right now I think this ship has sailed, unfortunately
holy shit that last part was nuts
The endoscopy part was awesome!
Finally someone with good camera quality talking about it!
Toni, laryngoscopy of the rough vocal effects bible?
This was very enlightening. Hadn't seen anyone else talk about this, and I realized how prevalent it truly was in my voice, unbeknownst to me. Thanks for the post!
Well... The last part was really interesting, i think it'd be worth doing this again for mix, chest, falsetto/head voice demonstration, to see how the vocal folds work in each part of the voice. I strongly believe that doing that will help understanding function.
I thought I was just over-compressing, (which was creating a ceiling and more and more effort was required to go higher), but I’ve learned from this I was using the false folds/grandpa voice all the time! As you say, you can sort of ‘get’ the notes with a lot of effort, but it’s just one sound, I’m very grateful for this lesson
lol The demonstrations had me 💀 but man the _science_ you put out about the voice 🤟🏽🤟🏽😱😱
Thank you Greg! I knew what I was doing was wrong, and I even knew it was called the valsalva maneuver/grandpa voice. I discovered it when I was learning how to scream and noticed I could scream higher than I could sing. I started out with a high screamed note, then backed off on the distortion and found my grandpa voice. I'm having difficulty moving on from there, but it's good to know that it's not helping me progress from here.
Great video! It's nice to find someone on TH-cam using terminology that makes sense to me. I've been calling this the "Grandpa Simpson" technique
I love your content - finally science of singing. Not just "use your diaphragm" or "mix is everything".
Thanks Gregory!
Great video Greg !
Seems to me that i use grandpa voice a ton when i sing (esp. rock that has grit).
Oh my god, i have a colleague, who has exactly this type of thing going on when he's doing high notes. I thought it was just his "natural" timbre and quality of a voice. Never thought of it like that. I'm going to show him this video. Thanks!
@@StudioWestLessons i dont know if it's new mic or what, but i do feel like your voice kinda matured, got more obertones. Really like that.
@@StudioWestLessons haha, typical vocalists stuff :
A:You sound great today, what happened?
B: oh, just got cold recently...
Hey Greg thanks grate video! Speaking in CVT terms and referring to CVT research, they show that false vocal folds are activated=contricted in metalic modes and in neutral are retracted, specially in curbing, as in overdrive and edge there is a certain amount of false vocal folds activation but the main aspect of the laryng gesture is the AnteroPosterior gap aproximation more linked with the epiglotis and twang .
I understand then that if with that grandpa sound you kind of control the closure of the false vocal folds, a certain degree of that is necesarry in all metalic sound, but if you overdo it, it will leads you toward a more squeze soiund/curbing and if you want a more powered but not hold like overdrive or edge you have to let it go a bit the false vocal cord activation/ grandpa and rely more on support or twang, but a little of FVF is still there I reckon, at least that s how I understand and feel but it just my currrent perspective, never can be 100% sure ...Anyway thanks for your content take care!
Mmmmm nice lighting Greg 👀✨🎶👌someone told me about Grandpa voice just yesterday, looked a lot like you 😜😂
awesome video greg! finally I can sing opera now.
I studied your grandpa versus belt example in a harmonic analyzer, and it showed more frequencies in the grandpa example. Both indicated Edge, grandpa being a darker Edge. Thought that was interesting. Your Edge almost sounds like Overdrive at times, but the harmonics don't taper off the sides in a ramp-like manner as you would get with Overdrive. Edge has that staggered long, short, long harmonic pattern.
In your belt example, the first harmonic is nowhere to be seen. In the grandpa version, it is poking up a little bit, and low in amplitude compared to your second, third, fourth, and fifth harmonics. In order to see all that, I had to pitch down so that the right side of the piano roll was visible.
Great demonstrations, and I agree that Grandpa voice is not useful to developing mixed voice (Curbing). Flageolet is, especially if you bring it down as low as you can- which is interesting, since we don't really sing with that sound in a performance.
Bro that analysis of the vocal cord tracts is really useful and helpful
Would also love to see more of those with the mix voice and different intensities of head to chest. Like scales and higher pitch or even like a cover!! Like a song such as a Bruno Mars song and what that looks like in the throat! That would be pretty cool
That was amazing... I think I just found a video describing my number one problem in singing. Am I right in thinking that the false vocal folds are also responsible for establishing a hold as taught in CVT when utilized correctly?
"Hold" is a bit of an ambiguous concept in CVT. Sense you can do a hold in falsetto it probably does not map to the false folds position precisely.
I gotta sing for audience on sept 16 hopefully I'll be more comfortable in range with your help
Woahh finally updates. Hope you will be uploading daily again bro
This video is gold. I've spend some time singing with grandpa voice without knowing it. Every time I tried to flip from the grandpa voice (at the time I thought it was my regular mixed voice) to my head voice or falsetto, it felt like I had to stop the air flow, change gears on my voice and then start singing again. Any tips on how to NOT engage the grandpa voice? Since I've spend some time using it, it's pretty hard not to unconsciously use it.
@@StudioWestLessons Thank you so much :D
@@StudioWestLessons So is grandpa voice basically like singing without the "necessary twang" CVT mentions?
Is this grandpa voice similar with curbing in CVT?
Grandpa voice 'feels' like extreme cry to me without releasing your M1 as much While mixed voice feels like you focus on resonance more and releases M1 a bit more.
Grandpa voice tires my voice out extremely quickly so i tend to avoid it
Love the video!
Hey Greg! Super informative video, per always. Thank you for that!
I'm curious, it seems like the mechanism for producing grandpa voice, which if I understand correctly is essentially the adducting or approximating of the ventricular folds, is the same mechanism used to produce the CVT “hold” that's required for curbing/any reduced density sound. Is that correct?
It seems like maybe the primary difference between grandpa and standard curbing is that Grandpa doesn't have necessary twang. Is that mainly it, or are there other factors?
@@StudioWestLessons Very interesting, thanks!
im bloody well doing this voice and it works sometimes to get mix and others it doesnt, that lighter mix is my issue and cant seem to coordinate it , grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
This is what i need to work on...next month is lessons with greg time
HI Gregory, was afraid you deleted all videos! What can i do if i try to lower my flagolet tension and have that grandpa voice?
@@StudioWestLessons I will try, thanks!
Desperado and Im in love. Also im in oc and live next to santa ana. We are neighbors practically. I sing well by proxy
Is flageolet a type of grandpa voice ? I know I once discovered grnad pa voice but it didn't feel good soo I went away from that direction ... Now I'm starting to coordinate flageolet tension so I hope I'm on the right path haha
@@StudioWestLessons well thank you verymuch haha
any ways i can stop over compressing my false vocal cords? really appreciate your help because ive been over doing it without realizing
Yes, focus on twanged sounds. Very bright, high larynx, nasty. And training your voice to move flexibly into falsetto in a smooth and continuous way. Those things are sort of antithetical to hyper compression so it should help! :)
Good video
04:33 AKA "grandpa di voce" :)
30 seconds of Grandpa Greg. Lovely morning
4:48 you can hear polyphonic/two notes at once
nice lights!! aweasome video
02:35 sounding so much like Toni here :)
Always A great thing!
Don't be concerned if it isn't there -it will present whether you want it to or not....hahaha when you're 63 like me, the challenge is getting the buzz out! 🙀😹 ...what was with Louie Armstrong's growl/gurgle/distortion? XoXo
Do you hace any program or offer singing lesons ?
I'm having trouble negotiating my high notes. I think I can only hit them with grandpa voice and oversqueezing. I can stop using it, but then I lose the range :( any help would be appreciated
What is the feeling of the Grandpa voice? I have the Grandpa quality in what I consider my mix but I feel resonance in my head, my nose area and sometimes the front of my upper teeth if that makes sense but it feels lighter in my mouth but sounds belty on the outside
I think ur mix should feel very free and can hit about 1 extra octave above ur highest chest voice note. Grandpa voice is when the higher u sing the more u struggle.
@@1029944 I can hit a couple of notes way above my chest in this coordination but it starts to get heady around C5... I guess it's a kuc after all. Thank you.
@@StudioWestLessons yes please
@@StudioWestLessons it has a bit of brendon urie quality to it.
Let me further explain the sensations I feel when I'm in this coordination, it has a bit feeling of my chest voice but it's very easy to do than my actual chest voice and it's a lighter than my chest voice but unlike the chest voice, when I'm in this coordination, I feel it resonate in my head, nose area(mostly like the upper part of my nose) and the region between my front upper teeth and nose if that makes sense🤷. I got into this coordination about 3 weeks ago while trying out the exercises(the Nay exercise) you gave in finding your mixed voice video. Though I can't use it in songs yet.
@@StudioWestLessons Nope but I will go watch it right away
Gregory could you do a video on like the husky voice like the dog sound and how that helps. Kinda like those huskies that talk
Also zombie voice and how that applies as well to singing
@@StudioWestLessons 🤣
Hi.
Love 💘
Yesssss
@Toni Linke....
lol this video is totally about the Ken Tamplins grandpa voice technique
Naisuuu
I have never seen such a disturbing material as that last section lol. It's a miracle youtube didn't block it, lol
When people gargle are they using their Falls cord ?
Thanks and what is the easiest way of some kind a habit humans do you can find your falls cord Sorry I don’t mean to bother you
Thanks
So what you're trying to say is basically not to overcompress in the high range ? 🤔
Greg, i know rock/metal is not your thing, but this grandpa voice "concept", reminded me a lot what Bruce Dickinson is doing right now...nowadays I can't tell the difference between him and a high pitch shifted grandpa Simpson lol, seriously...i mean, to be fair (and not a total dick about it), in 2014 he got sick, diagnosed with tongue cancer...but the overcompressing thing was already happening pre-cancer for at least solid 20 years...and Bruce has always been a major influence as vocalist for me, a true master of belty harsh vocals...in the 80s, at his prime, he was unbelievable, a beast of a singer...he is a legend and always will be...but right now I think this ship has sailed, unfortunately
I know comments help the algorithm so here's *another one
Lol Dj Khaled haha
Ummm? Eddie vedder voice?
This is how i do it at least :) On the gritty bits i mean.
A belting grandpa sounds way better than a belting knows-it-all kid :)
It sound like it hurts. Isn’t that what Christina Aguilera does?
@@StudioWestLessons 2:29 Sorry I just got back to the comment
It's grandpa voice or kermit's? 😆
@@StudioWestLessons it sounds similar I don't even know why lol
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