SHOULD WE BAN THESE ADS? Of course not, they are too much fun. A few viewers think I'm suggesting this. I often raise this type of topic for discussion, but it certainly doesn't mean I think these promotions are wrong. And most experienced riders will see through the marketing hype and enjoy the stunt riding. But I do have quite a few viewers who are relatively new to dual sport or adventure riding and I figure it doesn't hurt to suggest a bit of caution with trying to ride bigger bikes off-road aggressively. 😗 EVEN THE PROS CRASH - OFTEN One of our enduro vids went viral because it showed how often the pro riders crash when learning new stunts. th-cam.com/video/CrZsbcsIGbY/w-d-xo.html
For me the best bike still is the XR 650 R, just put it an electric start. I would like to see a dr-z 650 built like the xr650r, a modern bike on the market. nothing fancy just the basics with electric start 60 horsepower and good suspension, no electronics, no Electronic suspension just a speedometer and a fuel indicator super basic bike with good power and very reliable. KTM´s are fine but i don´t trust them. it is a shame that KTM don't solve the problems of the 690 and other bikes of their rank. These big bikes are good for riding on the street and forest roads, confortable and with power. Africa Twin is very good but there are plenty cases on my country that owners are saying that the 1100 consumes 33 cl of engine oil every 1000 km´s. The T7 world raid has an excelent suspention, on the street and off road, with a very reliable engine. Easy to hadle despite the weight. Has a sense of security. The Suzuki V-strom 1050 DE it is heavy, but i think has the most reliable engine of bikes over 1000 cc on this segment. I think these bikes are phenomenal for people that have money!! And want to travel and do like a good position of riding, people that ride Trail or Enduro bikes.
These add-s should not be banned, but in many, many cases disclaimer should be shown. For many instances we have observed and also discussed with some marketing deps about this (what and who they actually use for the cool videos). And sometimes the bike has almost double the cost in upgrades, and sometimes the rider is shown - is a barely 60kg lightweight on top of a 300 - making it look much more capable, than it is. My belief is, that the accidents happen due to lack of riding skill and electronics preventing developing it also. When I bought the first 1000cc bike, it scared the sh**t out me first time riding, so I dialed it down right away and took my timing getting use to the danger. Now - go to the store, ask for a 1300cc KTM to test, and it feels so tamed. But it is not, it is 250kg of danger on two wheels for a guy who maybe rode some sluggish dirt bikes 20++ years ago (looking in the mirror), so yes, less is more and a lot more fun too...
A few years ago, after having to pick it up close to 50 times on a trail that got my friend and I in way over our heads, I realized that even the KLR 650 was too big for me to enjoy on the trails I enjoy riding.
I have a gen2, at first I thought it'd be a big enduro & I'd "tear it up".. But reality is that it's my "adult" ct90, a trail bike, which is perfect for my riding environment 👍
But you certainly gave it a good try, Tyler. I remember the videos! I remember taking the DR650 on on some of our hard enduro tracks when I was in my early 50s. It was like a gym session lol. No way I'd be trying that again in my 60s... I hope all is well. 😁
I saved a friend from these ads. Took him dual sporting for a weekend with a light and a heavy bike. At the end of the weekend he thanked me and said I'd saved him from a costly mistake. He said he thought he wanted an adventure bike until he got out and hit some actual trails. Turned out he wanted a dual sport.
I wish i had a similar experience, but at least i knew enough to look for the lightest adv i could find. now with some experience, i had a better idea of what sort of bike i need as well as just how unhinged advertisers are
I'm lucky enough to own both and agree. Big ADV bike is a pain on the trails and you can't really enjoy ADV on a dirtbike. Unicorns are a myth after all 😅
@@goatman86 The secret to happiness here is believing in unicorns. If Yamaha made a 550-600cc version of the Kove 450 with a Fisher seat and passenger pegs that would be my unicorn.
That’s why Pol Tarres promotes its own disclosure on the Tenere 700: “Warning you are not Pol Tarres”. If you’re not aware of it, you’re at fault if you crash 😂😂😂😂
I think the best thing people can do is regularly ride some hard slow tech, not only does it do wonders for your skills but also provides a safe reality check to show you how much you actually suck. If you only ride fast open stuff it's very easy to feel like the legend your not.
I found the best vehicle for learning the slow hard stuff was an electric unicycle. Those things give you darn near trials level skill, especially for things like stopping in place, hopping up on ledges, and learning to crash well.
Reminds me of a conversation I had with a helicopter medic. We were discussing how busy he was one weekend flying into Rocky Mountains to rescue ppl with broken bodies on adventure bikes. He mentioned seeing gs1200’s and Africa Twins laying next to them. They were getting badly injured on simple terrain. Lots of money for the nicest toys but makes me wonder if there is a pride factor with starting on something small.
Huge topic, and one we touch on in the vids quite a bit. Almost every experienced rider knows the go... but newcomers often think these big adv bike can be ridden like dirt bikes with minimal skills or training needed.
Without trying to sound like a smart arse, who said they were just starting out? This is coming from an experienced rider whom rides no bigger than a DR650 off road.
A lot of the issue is thst these bikes are being sold as capable offroaders that can do anything, and the only people falling for that kind of BS are typically beginners who don't know better. It's a bad mix, like a new rider with a hiyabusa level of bad.
There is certainly a pride factor. Specially for new riders. I literally saw one friend spit out of his mouth. "I want a real bike (liter bike) not a 600cc toy". It really makes you value how many lives could be saving the A2 license here in the EU 😅😂
Light is Right - pick the lightest bike that meets your needs and understand the compromises and limitations. I find adventure bike marketing somewhat entertaining and in no way does it influence my decision on what bike is appropriate for my needs and skills.
I love the Pol Torres T7 videos, but I definitely think that they've convinced a lot of (far less skilled) guys to go out and buy one, thinking they can just hop on and ride them like a motocross bike.
I’ve been on dirt bikes my whole life, bought a new tenere last year. Knowing its weight and capabilities it’s perfect for streets, backroads, and light off roading but I’ll keep the light 2 stroke for really getting off road. These big heavy adventure bikes can get you in a position that you will have a very tough time getting out of if not careful.
Having not ridden off road for forty some years I bought a T7 after quitting sidecar racing. It'll be fun to do some greenlaning. Whilst the bike got me through a ton of places I should have fallen off I did realise I needed something smaller to practice on. I got a TTR250 and use it on local trails. I have learnt so much from it and gained more confidence on the T7. I do find myself looking for that 450/500 unicorn now though. As for those dirt bike gods on big adventure bikes? I love the vids - to me they are just a showcase for the bike's abilities in the right hands. No urge to try to copy them though.
I bought a XT600 after a 15 year break from off road riding, after a few weekends out with others on T7s and WR250s I realised a 250 was a whole lot better for me, 18 Months down the line I now have a lot more experience and a Fantic 450 which is so much fun.
im also entertaining the idea of getting something smaller to complement t7, though im more looking at something electric, ebike, those 45kmph surron/talaria or small e dirt or DS
I grew up riding dirt bikes and transitioned into street riding 4 years ago. I missed dirt riding, so I purchased a 2017 Africa Twin about a year and a half ago. I have found it excellent off-road so far, but will admit I do not try to ride it like a dirt bike (usually). I am definitely aware of its weight and size, and ride it with an extra degree of caution. For a beginner riding off-road, it would not be a good choice at all. The dirt-oriented adventure bikes are fun for an experienced rider, and I think the videos the manufacturers put out are generally good for showing what a bike could be capable of in the right hands, and gives riders something to aspire to. Most sane people realize that they are not capable of doing that kind of riding once they take their adventure bike off-road for the first time. It really exemplifies the "it's not the bike, it's the rider" saying.
Start slow and go light to develop your skills and depending on what your riding mission is, get a larger more powerful ADV bike. Most riders use the bike to travel to great places to enjoy the outdoors. The ads seem to try to convince many that all they need is the big ADV Bike and the skills come with it. Riding is fun but injuries are not. Cheers Barry!
I must admit I like a 650 for how effortlessly it thumps along the highways but I'm impressed with how even a 250 can do this if you aren't in a hurry.
The harsh reality is that rider skill (or lack thereof) makes the biggest difference on the terrain you can ride. But that doesn't sell bikes. The marketers want you to think that buying that new bike will greatly improve your riding, or get you laid, or something. Put in lots of seat time and get some training. Being in some kind of shape above Couch Potato wouldn't hurt either.
Good point about the fitness, Garry. These guys are almost alway standing on the pegs when they start the trick riding and using a ton of body positioning...
A very worthwhile conversation!! For sure some will be lured in way over their heads and with little or no experience should definitely start on a smaller off-road bike, but others hopefully will simply be challenged to practice, practice, practice, knowing that with learned skills many incredible things are possible on these newer generations of bikes! Cheers, Barry....ride safe!
Cheers Allen! Yeah a few guys think the topic is pointless because any experienced rider sees through the marketing hype (hopefully!). But of course riders new to the sport might just think the big bikes can be handled this way... so a cautionary hint doesn't hurt!
I'm fairly competent on my WR450F on any trail I've found in Colorado (and I've found a lot of them)... but jumping on my 890 Adv R turns me into a novice on the same trails and single track is usually a no-go due to the narrow gates (fuel tank doesn't fit through)... but given how that big bike decides where it wants to go and only occasionally listens to my input, I tend to stick to double-track and fire roads.
My main issue with those add are that it often make for disappointed customer One of my friend loved the Tenere 700 and he knew a guy which bought one without having street license. Less than a year later, the bike is allegedly holding only by wire and Ty-Rap after only a few light drop and some tree branch My reaction was "Yeah, these are street bike, what did you expect?" Well because of those add (and some dubious reviewer) they believed it was just a big dirt bike Nevermind the fact that it still handle like a hyppopotamus
I agree, Cedric. It's mainly the guys new to our sport who might get a bit misled by these ads. The rest of us know to enjoy the stunts but realise we won't be doing that shit lol.
I think the bikes getting bigger and more powerful is a big factor. "Better" suspension can also make people think the bike makes them more skilled than they are on inferior machine, which isn't true. Yeah, you get a higher tolerance for mistakes, but most of us make for more (and more severe) mistakes than pro riders in ADV bike ads.
I have made this statement before, and got a lot of headwind for it. Bad suspension shows your mistakes earlier/at lower speeds. And I stand by that. However if it comes to offrad riding, I am not sure if DR-Style Pogo-Stick suspension (damping rod) helps to teach you much. I have the feeling it just gets in the way and occupies a lot of brainpower anticipating what the heck it will do next, instead of using that brainpower to actually learn something. Just because the damping is so progressive that you neither get feedback nor control, so its just constant guesswork instead of action and reaction.
I went from a KTM640LC4 to a DR-Z400E, then to a CRF250 Rally over the past 15 years. I'm so comfortable on the little Rally. Less risk, less expense, less maintenance, less hassle. I can go anywhere on it...without falling over, or breaking anything.
Middle aged guy here, somewhat new to dirt riding (long time road rider). I'm a big guy at 6'3" 230 lbs but still decided to go with a KTM 250 4 stroke plated for dual sport riding to start with. Nice and light and still borderline too much power for a full on noob. Videos like these and others steered me toward starting off on a smaller displacement lighter bike. and I'll probably stick with it for many years. That said still love watching the hard enduro pros go at it on big bikes. Keep up the great work!
I am one of those middle-aged men who was bitten by the adventure bug. I had ridden just a little as a kid and hadn't been on dirt in 35 years. I started with a KLR650 and took a beginner training class in Feb 2021. That went well and I realized this was something I really wanted to do, so I bought a KTM 890 Adv R and took an intermediate class. I have since ridden several BDRs, Baja and the Continental Divide trail, 12K miles so far. I love the Chris Birch videos but, just like I can't golf/ski/surf/woodwork/etc. like what is shown in marketing videos, I know I can't ride like him. My 890 has still been a fantastic choice for me, however. It does not require a pro to ride and it's capabilities can bail out the intermediate guy as well as serve the pro. All that being said, I recently bought a Beta 390 RR-S to have something lighter and less demanding for day rides and I will do some multi-day rides on it as well. It all comes down to judgement and good common sense.
@@crosstrainingadventure Absolutely! I think a long-stroke 500 (390 crank with 500 bore) engine and perhaps a cush drive could be amazing. I have my 390 set up with a larger tank, heated grips, a Giant Loop rack and a Seat Concepts seat. I plan to run my Giant Loop Coyote bag. I hope to find out soon how well it works in the light ADV role. I have actually exchanged emails with Jared at 3 Seas Recreation (@3SeasRecreation) about him doing an adventure build.
@@F1since79I'm so close to pulling the trigger on a beta 390rs for light weight adv. The service intervals and high maintenance at 300 hours worries me as in Australia we cover big distances when riding on multi-day rides.
@@andrew390I would go for it. I have been told by more knowledgeable persons than I that the service intervals are based on racing use. Also, the bike only needs about .75 liters so carrying an oil change isn’t a huge challenge. I’ve also heard the 300 hour maintenance can be pushed to triple that. BUT, YMMV and don’t take my word for it. Peruse the forums and see if you find the same info. Also, g’day! I’ve been down under several times including this past May. Always had a wonderful time. Beautiful country.
I find it inspirational tbh. Quite aware these guys have been riding bikes offroad 5+ times longer than me, but still, their videos helped me learn all the things I know today, and to have the guts to do it on my 901. I also love to travel and ride offroad in different countries, so having something smaller like 701 would be a big compromise in terms of comfort and protection from elements when I would ride 700kms daily for a week. I love to see what bikes are capable of doing in skilled hands.
Same here. As per the vid I love watching these kind of antics and personally would be disappointed if they stopped. But I've heard so many guys discussing this topic I thought it would make an interesting vid.
I like watching the big bikes. I'll never have one or ride like that, but I do enjoy the footage. It's not my fault somebody with too much money and too little experience gets clubbed by one, unless I have to be Johnny on the Spot to help out. Also, people should know who they are with because most people, almost all, freak out when around anything like that. It's quite a shocking thing for most to see a displaced bone or blood, big bike or small, motorized or not
70 yo usually riding solo. Mostly backroads and dirt... Himalayan.... I carry a motowinch. 4 lbs.... Tested it..... Well worth the weight. I camp minimal anyways. good video... thanks
These videos show the bikes are capable. Which means i can comfortably ride my big adventure bike at 50% of these people's skill level, instead of worrying if I'll be way in over my head.
Very good points indeed! It's so scary to see riders believe that a 200+ kg and 150+ hp motorcycle can be used like a dirt bike and actually choose their motorcycle based on its "off road" capabilities.
love these videos . I often ride unpowered motorcycles and in a whole I find it teaches you to become a better rider . 80% rider 20% bike .. heard that before somewhere .
Being honest with yourself if one of the hardest things to do I think. Also, following through with the "nice to have" vs the "need" decision (not that we ever "need" toys, really). As I grow older, my bikes get smaller and cheaper. I like to think that's because I've gained some wisdom, not that I'm cheap and broke.
I think the injury/accident (off road) is greatly increased by 3 things i have often observed- a/choosing a heavy bike which is much harder to control off road b/wearing "adventure gear" (flexible boots,internal ce armour which slips about etc etc) c/lulled into a false sense of security when trail is going well,feeling excited,then "giving her a big handful"😀
About 15 years ago I was riding my Dakar 650 down a simple pole line road in the Mojave Desert near Jawbone Canyon. Needing a pee break I made a turn on to a downhill spur, realized my mistake, stopped, got off, tried to back it around, lost my footing, and ignominiously fell over with it on top of me. I laid there for a few seconds staring up at the sky and clouds through my fullface helmet pondering the totality of a 420 pound "dirt" bike, my 5'9" 160 pounds, my upper middle ageness, and how easy it was to get in this predicament. Then I decided to get up and move on. But I couldn't. That bike had fallen in such a way I could not shift it off. I struggled mindlessly for maybe 30 seconds before breathlessly giving up. I had another minute or so of pondering the sky and clouds. I wasn't uncomfortable, would probably survive long enough to be found alive. But then, my long past high school wrestling memories kicked in, and in a couple dep moves I escaped. You might think that I had learned my lesson, but no, my next bike was a R1150GS. Then another Dakar. Then a DR650 nearly as heavy as a Dakar. Then another Daker. Then the bike that drove the lesson home - the mighty KTM 990 Adventure R. That beast tempted me, I'd catch myself going way too fast. Like a rock climber free soloing, I knew if I kept this up it would kill me someday. So I got a WR250R.
Interesting topic of conversation. I love the ads for their raw entertainment value but there will always be a few who's ego's out run their skills. ..."Hold my beer." Your suggestions are spot on. At 62 I've picked up trials again and I'm loving the training and workout! I'm improving slowly and hoping it transfers to my Enduro riding come spring. That's a better and safer place to invest your wild side especially in older age segment. Coaching? Hell yes! and the earlier the better in order to practice the right way. In the meantime, I'm loving watching Pol, Toni, Birchy's & others seemingly super human skills, and while awed & inspired I'm hopeful we're not too delusional about our own skills and don't rediscover reality the hard way. "Wait, let me get my phone out... ok go."😂
I'm a half decent rider and love watching Chris Birch and Adam Riemanns showing off their skills. I was in out local forestry the other day and there was a pine tree over the road. I reckon I could have got over it. Did I wanna fuck around and find out I can't launch like Chris Birch and go A over T on my twenty plus thousand dollar Triumph Scrambler? Yeah nah. I'm gunna buy a DRZ for thrashing around the scrub. Love your channel, great stuff.
R1150GS to a Yam Super Ten then down to an Africa Twin now on a T7 . This over a 10 yr period from 50 to 60. Also have the wonderful albeit woefully under powered CRF250L for the muddy single track stuff. Long live the Awesome Players Off Road Motorcycle Club 🏍️🇨🇦
Another great video. I have 30+ years in road and dirt bikes, so I like your message - it is relevant and useful. The newbies to motorcycling (at more "advanced" age) don't know the nuances. For example, most adventure riding on the tube is dudes riding on dirt roads - roads that I have ridden many times on road bikes. If they find this adventurous, all power to them. It is helpful to let them know that once they get some experience they will likely need a smaller bike - cos they will want to tacckle tougher terrain - well, they will tackle "terrain", rather than a graded dirt road....and I agree - watching lunatics do THAT with the Africa Twin lardboat is AMAZING!! lotsa fun!!! 😂😂😂
This is why I'm aiming to get a Himalayan for my first bike. A low power bike with enough torque to get my around the trails but not enough power to get me into too much trouble in the open
I'm an intermediate gp track rider Bought an Africa Twin DCT a few years ago for touring and intro to off-road Did lots of touring but too scared to off-road because it was big and heavy Sold it and bought a TW200 and took an off-road riding class and immediately started offroading After a few years of Tdubbing I'm ready to trade up to a real dirt bike Should have started with a Tdub but the Africa Twin looked cool and they let me test drive it haha
Hi everyone. This is somewhat off topic, but I would like to thank you guys for your video on the best boots to get. I was swayed by your arguments for getting the best possible boots ( I went with SG12's) and just yesterday I binned my bike at around 40kph, the bike landing on my right ankle and folding my foot forward and to the side. In real time during the crash as I felt my foot folding, I thought that it was certainly going to snap my ankle, but I actually also felt the point at which the boot stopped my foot from rotating any further and thus leaving me with a very sore and swollen ankle, but one that I can somewhat still walk on and within the next week or two be back to work etc. I have no doubt at all that the boot saved me from at minimum a trip to hospital for some plaster work. The price of the boots was paid for in full by just this first accident I have had, and I'm sure , considering my riding abilities, they will be tested again. So, thanks again, everyone, for your input into the discussions of safety gear Hope you all had a great Christmas and a happy new year. Stay safe As a side note. The boots took zero noticeable damage in the crash
Great to hear, glad you didn't snap any bones. With enough force any boot is going to eventually give up and let major injuries occur, but I do think the best boots do a good job of balancing protection with being able to still walk in them. And best of all they should be providing similar protection five years down the track... or more. 😎👍
Most big adventure bikes never get off the blacktop in reality they are mainly used for touring because they can be ridden for long distances in reasonable comfort and look cool doing it, a GS 1200 with aluminium panniers make you look like Ewan and Charlie heading on the long way round, best BMW marketing ever that one, and they kept on crashing and got fed up with the weight but people went out in their thousands and bought a GS, so the question is why ? They showed they were a beast of a bike to lift up continuously and did break things but damn did they look cool doing it.
I actually never watched the show but I heard they really wanted to run with KTM but the Austrians weren't interested? If so they missed a massive marketing opportunity... although if the bikes weren't reliable it could have been disastrous too lol.
I started (adventure riding, not riding overall) on a Tenere 700, and that was pretty fine for me for light trail riding. Fine so long as I wasn't going to pick up the bike more than twice in a day. There's no way I'd go any heavier unless I was ONLY riding dirt roads. No chance at all. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, the bigger adventure bikes (Africa Twin an larger) are touring bikes made to handle decently maintained dirt roads, and that's it. I respect some people can handle them in rougher circumstances, but I'd hazard a guess that that list of people is WAY smaller than a lot of would-be members thinks. Even the T7 at 450ish lbs is *heavy* to lift. The tricky part is, if you're not lucky enough to live close to good offroad riding (I need a MINIMUM of an hour of highway riding to get to decent offroad riding) smaller bikes suck. Spending hours on a highway on a crf450 sounds like nightmare fuel for me. So we buy the bigger bike. But frankly I feel you're better served just buying a trailer at that point and getting an even smaller bike, towing your bike to where you want to ride, then driving home after. Then you can go even lighter and smaller and have a much better time in the dirt.
I don't like the idea of owning a Chinese bike but must admit the new Kove 800X looks tempting. Very much like a T7 but they claim it's about 20kg lighter...
I would say have a bigger notice that these are expert riders and few will ever get to their skill levels. I recently totalled my super ten, that was my daily bike. But i took it off road, some of which were single track stuff that you'd only take a dual sport through. Yea i struggled, dropped it a bunch of times but had fun. Have a 850gs now, and plan on doing the same. Taking a big ADV off road, you will drop it, its going to be a atruggle. But still can have lots of fun as long as you keep your expectation on big bike levels, not dual sport.
Those adds are pretty awesome but the end of the day if you just want to ride trails, get a dirt bike. If you want the versatility of a full size adv, then get one. I personally would not be happy sacrificing the road performance and reliability and comfort of my AT just to get a lighter bike for offroad. There is a high skill cap for mastering offroad on an adv - I like the idea of that challenge, regardless of how close I get to achieving it.
YOu are correct. Rules no 1,2,3 of dirtbikes is choose the lightest bike that will do the job. As you age, make that rules 1-6. Even working on a twin or moving it around a garage or loading it onto a trailer become too much of a hassle as you age. At 67 I'm down to a KTM 500, which is the lightest you can go. Another good rule to follow, choose the bike that will cope with the worst terrain you can envisage. That means the lightest bike again.
Oldsmobile used Jet and Rocket to describe their engines and put large tailfins with afterglow signals. It was a very optimistic time and only a few people actually rode a rocket - maybe count on hands including monkey and dog. There probably were a few generation that thought they were Jetson. The growth in adventure bike capability is still on B'nW TV.
Doing rider training is always a good idea . Most adventure riders on big bikes do lite off roading ie gravel roads etc and is basically treated as a comfy sports tourer
Thinking with the small head, ego over aspiration and a diminished sense of real ability is fucking dangerous. Your words ring very true “to ride fast on gravel, you first have to learn how to ride slow”. What isn’t shown from the making of these promo’s is the myriad bloopers, crashes and fuck ups that even the legends make - the difference is they anticipate it - they expect and know how to fall off. I had a cycling mate who was never going to be quick on the road, so he discovered downhill MTB something he could be competitive in by throwing $ at it. He was proud that he never fell off - well now he’s in his 2nd year recovering from a life changing brain injury from when he finally did. Point being, the modern gear lets riders, especially on the road get away with ever increasing speed but the place where feedback about the ‘limit’ is gets ever smaller - it becomes a knife edge that only the MotoGP aliens can tip toe across. A guy who would often pass me in my ‘newbie caution’ on the beach sideways at 100+kmh on his KTM1290, not long ago spent an hour trapped under it with a broken ankle and an in-coming tide. Dying like the hero in a James Bond movie might look glamorous in the movies but IMHO - fuck that for a game of soldiers.
Great point! A few years back we did vid on the enduro channel called 'When pro rider turn bad'. It showed the constant crashes as these gold class hard enduro riders were trying to learn new stunts!
Half the problem is the fault of the buyer. They weigh the bike down with tons of accessories and then try to do things that the rider is not skilled enough to do. The bike is perfectly capable, with the right set of skills. Pol Tarres is not the only guy that can ride a T7 like a dual sport (although he might be the only guy that can ride one in Erzberg conditions). You will notice that Yamaha advertising does not promote Pol level riding, and I remember Adrien Van Beveren at the launch saying they tamed down the riding for the marketing shoot.
The ads definitely confuse people. Whilst i don't think any average rider think they can do the same after watching Pol, it nudges your rational mind out of the way of getting what you can manage. I suspect the biggest effect is people getting the wrong bike, and not doing much if any at all of the off road riding they wanted to do. I only see dual sport on the trails near me, not a single even mid size adventure bike.
All depends on what you are planning to do with the bike. I wanted something that can do a bit of everything. I know my skill limits and have a blast on my Tiger 1200 Rally Explorerbot on and offroad. Its als awesome for two up touring. Since I can only have one bike, I am more than happy with my purchase.
Never heard of a death in hard enduro so no but everyone should test and know their limits before they even attempt to ride this hard. Pol Tarres also enters competitions with the Tenere 700, it isn't just a show I would say, at least in his case.
It would probably wouldn't sell, but I'd love to see some of the big bore enduro models detuned and set up for more reliability. And add 1 litre to the oil capacity.
I bought a T7 mid last year after 15 years of road riding. 18 months on I don't regret it, it's an awesome bike but the dirt learning curve would have been heaps easier on a WR250R or similar. I love the T7 for longer rides and commuting though.
I started out on a R1200GS and sold it to get a DR650. Then, I bought a CRF250L for the single track and more technical stuff. Kept the DR and CRF for 18 months after gaining confidence, and skills and attending an advanced dirt riding clinic. Now I have progressed to an Africa Twin and can happily ride dirt and more challenging terrain and still have a blast - I would never have gained the confidence and skills on the R1200GS alone - I definitely advise starting small and then choosing a bigger bike if you so desire. I wrote my CRF250L off from continued abuse and always falling off (don't become a good sailor in calm seas 😁.) Now I need another small bike for the technical stuff. More Enduro type like KTM 350 or similar. Great content, as always. Thanks.
Some great options in that category, Jay... 350EXCF, Sherco 300SEF, Beta RR350 and RR390. Long stroke engine on the RR390 is superb if you want more linear power delivery and a bit more of a dual sport feel.
Fuel tank Warning sticker for T7 "WARNING: You are not Pol Tarres". This is what riders of my rally group did when they ordered their T7 two years ago, following the hype. That was the most meaningful warning sticker I have ever seen on a bike fuel tank. Meanwhile, one came back to a KTM EXC 500 to reenjoy riding, although he made podium at trials German championship back in the years. Dito!
I'm waiting for a adventure bike max 450 cc from the green boys, wich you can ride also with the wife on the back. Versys 450 or something like that. 50 hp is more then enough to have fun on and offroad.
I fell for the marketing Hype, bought a Honda Africa twin, rode it for 2 years traded on a smaller road oriented bike and looking now for a used 250cc dual sport to learn off-road on.
Step 1: Buy a bike you can actually afford to buy and maintain. Rule: If you cant buy 2 of them without a credit it's too expensive. Step 2: Get to know the bike on the streets or easy gravel roads. Best with some riding buddies. Step 3: Go on a 4 - 7 day ride with more experienced riders to learn the drill on a group ride. Step 4: Take off road riding trainig. Step 5: Go on a off road tour with your more experienced friends. Step 6: Learn how to fix minor problems yourself. Step 7: Do what you want with the bike without fear.
What? There's only one guy rocking a Hayabusa sport-bike as his 'adv' bike? And he's not even mentioned?! "Matt Spears - Crotch Rocket at Moab, Hells Gate" 🤘🤣 Great video as always! I'm reminded of the guy that do 12 o' clock wheelies on full size HD baggers.. Just because a few people do it - doesn't make it the norm. [Then video after video comes out of people's 'attempts' followed by their 'Wrecks'.] As long as people are born, there's gonna be suckers born, and those are the ones who all of these ads seem to be aimed towards.
Ive had my zx14r up some rocky surfaces and down some sketchy roads to get to camp locations or photo opportunities in the rocky mountains. Theyre exceptional off road aswell because of the same reason theyre praised on the street, their low center of gravity.
I think you're right, and its not limited to ADV bikes. The ubiquitous bike here in Los Angeles area is the KTM EXC 500, its considered "The Little Bike" by many, but its still capable of reaching well over 100 mph, even with low gearing. Some guy from Holland just completed the Baja 1000 on one, and it was a 2014 model he bought a few days before the event. THAT is an over powerful machine for us 40-80 year olds out in the desert. BUT, with great power comes great intoxication, and I don't see our poorly evolved monkey brains being able to logic our way out of this one. After all, we'd all be safer in SxS's, wouldn't we?
Plenty of guys adventurising the 500EXCF. I'd love to see KTM bring out an adv model. Big oil capacity. Comfy seat. Big tank. Cush drive hub. Rally screen. Stronger subframe etc. There would be some overlap with the 690 but it should also weigh 40kg less. 😍
@@crosstrainingadventure Yeah. For now we're just adding True North racks, 15T front sprockets and a Gasbag and calling it Light ADV. Although for me a key point is to do THAT to a 13-16 EXC because they seem to have the legs. A bit beefier in every dept. You raise an interesting point I've wondered about, which is what will the Kove 450 do to the Pumpkin patch plans. It seems KTM have been caught napping on this one, although they've never really been ones to listen to their fanbase, which is fervently loyal. All we wanted was a successor to the mighty 640 ADV. The Kove and AJP PR7 are bikes KTM could've made fairly easily.
48 year old here. Bought the T7 mostly because I love the look of it and because I do a lot of on road group rides. I wanted something comfortable for the road, but also a bike that I can use off road if I wanted to. I have zero experience off road, but thought the T7 couldn’t be that bad to learn on. But now looking back, I should just have bought a Honda CRF 300. It wouldn’t be as much fun on road, but it will be a lot easier to pick up after a tip over. The T7 is a bitch to lift back up and it’s really top heavy. But I love it on road. Maybe I should save up for a Honda 300
I bought a Honda CRF300L Rally as my first bike. White helmet and my hot weather jacket is hi-viz yellow. I can confirm that being on a big red bike with a bright yellow jacket leads to fewer issues than driving my truck. Plus, on the bike, I get the benefit of lane positioning. The only thing I can't do much about are the few people who seemingly have no issue with tailing a motorcycle... some people just shouldn't be allowed to drive. As for the ads, I have no problem with them. It's the end user who needs to understand that they lack the skill to be able to pull off the same stunts as those pro level riders. Just buying and riding a T7 isn't going to magically make someone glide over obstacles.
Coming from and still owing a 400kg cruiser (x-country) I thought it would be easy to handle a 220-250kg bike at 62y but watching the young one's struggle no matter how fit there are on the various sites, I've opted for a RE452, just under 200kg, b4 my tummy op I could pick up the cruiser, (some difficulties) but not now. I tested the 800DE zook to much power for what I wanted, and did the tip over test just managed, & I recon that this bag of old bones could lift up the RE452. 20-30kg dose make a lot of differance, I guess when it come to Oz in feb-march 24 we'll know. two bikes are better than one... Merry Christmas everyone
Yes that extra 20kg can make a big difference. I've even noticed with the DR650 how much heavier it feels with a full tank of fuel... and that's only about 10kg.
I started off road on a BMW GS1200, however at the time I had no intention of venturing beyond jeep trails. I did that for about 4 years (increasing trail difficulty) and switched to a KTM 500. As I spent more time off road and pushed myself well beyond the jeep trails I just got tired of the repairs/maintenance, and picking up a heavy bike on goat trails. One upside to the pro videos was that it did give my confidence to know that the bike wasn’t the problem. I got the “bug” out of my system. My first major injury was on the 500 though 🤷🏻♂️ Unfortunately I haven’t been back in a couple years but definitely will be reaching for the 500.
The marketing videos are trying to sell the capability of the bike. Most owners will only do dirt roads with a mid-large adv bike, but they want to know their bike is capable of more. In reality, it is a huge chore and not fun to go full Pol-Tarres with these heavy machines. Let alone the cost of replacing things the videos don't show you. But that idea that you're riding some road version of a factory race bike is very marketable. Like Honda used to say in the 80's: "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday."
I have a friend who is considering selling his KTM 500 and using his 790 Adventure for the easier trails. Sounds reasonable enough, but even the 500 can be too much for him at times, he barely ever rides, and has a bad back from getting rear-ended on the street years ago....and he's almost 60. I've strongly encouraged him to keep the 790 on pavement as even a simple tip-over at a weird angle could make the bike nearly impossible to pick up on his own. I do greatly enjoy these videos though, but I do believe they encourage a lot of new riders to get in over their heads.
From what you say it sounds like he'd be way better off keeping the 500EXCF but maybe adventurise it a bit? Get it lowered, comfy seat, big tank etc? I'm in my 60s now and weight is top of the list whenever I look at new bikes.
I've ridden enough enduro and single track to know and at 56 I'm old enough not to fooled or influenced by marketing BS.... I bought a DRz400s for ADV use...
I think they do influence people. I have seen mutiple examples on offroad rides where some people take these adv bikes. Have seen a capable guy on T7 ripping but the most infamous one. Is the guy on his GS who had more balls than brains. The first picture is his GS stuck belly deep mud and the second one his GS took bath in a ditch. He would have had so much more fun on 250 4 stroke and would so much less likely to hurt him self or the bike.
Just the Fact that you would have to explain THIS to someone would be Enough reason for THAT someone NOT to buy a motorcycle to Begin with... Good stuff, Thanks for posting...😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
It’s going to get some people in impossible situations, especially the T7. Got a DR650, but almost got a klx300. As my back gets worse, I still might go smaller.
I was watching a group ride conducted by another Australian TH-camr, with several participants mounted on shiny new litre-plus adventure bikes. They visited one location with a descending gravel driveway. Getting in was a ginger affair, but get back out was an unexpected challenge for many and a couple had to simply get someone else to ride their _'bitten-off-more-than-they-could-chew'_ behemoths. No skills, but they bought the dream!
Yeah, if you’re a two wheeled guy or gal. Some of the BS Marketing of huge adventure bikes are ridiculous! Like a cover for magazine of a pro rider on a GS Adventure doing a wheelie, then you open the pages and the pro rider crashed 💥. *Don’t buy into the hype, purchase and ride what fits and suits your needs.*
I love watching those guys make beasts dance like Enduro bikes. Even though I've been riding dirt bikes longer than most people have been alive, I know I don't have the skills to even try what they do. I second the idea of learning on a dirt bike before ever going out on the road, the learning curve is much faster and safer. BUT these days some people play a video game and think they have the real thing figured out so, let Darwin do his job.
I think the marketing shows what the bike can do with a really good rider on it. Hopefully people realise the marketers are just presenting their product in the best light. I also agree starting on a dirt bike is the best recommendation for newbies to learn skills
I just bought a 1250GSA. But I’m not going to be doing enduro on it 😂 I think it’ll be fair, that BMW v the rest when it comes to the marketing are quite realistic when it comes to the potential of their 1250- they push their Safaris hard, but the routes are well within the parameters of the bikes ability
I think all marketing is to some extent irresponsible. 99% of the people riding dirtbikes in would kill themselves trying to land a supercross jump too, but that doesn’t stop manufacturers advertising MX bikes in that way. Ditto with any sportbike over 250cc. I do think that modern adventure bikes make it easier to get into trouble because they’re so capable. Excellent suspension, chassis, and electronics make it easier to get closer to the limit without actually feeling like you are… and making it more of a surprise when you cross it.
Great point Dimitriy. Ditto for 4x4 ads. Noobs often wind up bogged, broken down miles from anywhere, or rolling their vehicles trying to do the fancy stuff they see in the ads.
I’m going to buy a hypermotard 696, use it everyday. Occasionally i will replace tires for travelling in mountains around the city. And for winters i’m going to buy a snowbike kit to turn it into a snowbike. I know its a ducati and bla-bla-bla. But i’m gonna use it 100% of its abilities.
I started with a KLR650 in 2016, and after 7 years of riding a 2006 and a 1997, I've finally upgraded. To a 2023 klr650. Whoops! Really, though, I want a CRF300L Rally or something light. Having 110 hp would be fun but I don't need the price, weight or maintenance cycle associated with those bikes. I was briefly looking at the crf450RL but I'm 90% certain i'd kill myself on accident
Excluding fire roads my off road riding is designated 100% to the trials bike now. Get trials bike if you want experience the off road. They are a ton of fun and teach great skills.
from what I've seen, the promo material is part of it but a big part (and maybe the biggest) is other riders. I remember when I was looking for my first bike. I knew I'd want to ride trails, start off with something easy like logging roads then move on to something more challenging and eventually some single track. I also knew that, without a truck, the only way i was getting it to the trail was by riding it. Lots of people seemed to think middle-weight street bikes were a bare minimum to safely ride on highways, and enduro or dual sport bikes were completely untenable for more than 10-20min rides on roads. If you're a new rider, you're going to dismiss the 300cc dual sports out of hand despite that being a great place to start. dealerships not allowing test rides don't make it any better
This will always drive me absolutely nuts. There are people who have traveled the world by two wheels multiple times, and it's usually done on a 250cc or under. Honestly, the avg cc for world riders is probably 125. Yet I just spoke to someone yesterday who claimed that 650cc is not enough for highway cruising. These advertisers have new bike owners brainwashed.
When I did enduro competition 40 years ago, my purpose built bikes would have beat any modern adventure bike, in every way. Built for the purpose, plus practiced skills. Don't fall for this, it's just a dirt road capable street bike. Ride Trials, you'll get real offroad skills.
Wasn’t the power for me, it was the physical size and weight 🪨 of the BMW 1200 GS, just physically too large. It felt like the bike was riding me. Switched up to Ducati Multistrada 1200, then I felt like I was riding the bike with passion ❤️🔥!
The promos are exactly that - promos. Nobody with any common sense suddenly thinks “I’m going to enter a hard enduro with my big arse GS”. It’s just promos, and I like em’ 🙂
SHOULD WE BAN THESE ADS? Of course not, they are too much fun. A few viewers think I'm suggesting this. I often raise this type of topic for discussion, but it certainly doesn't mean I think these promotions are wrong. And most experienced riders will see through the marketing hype and enjoy the stunt riding. But I do have quite a few viewers who are relatively new to dual sport or adventure riding and I figure it doesn't hurt to suggest a bit of caution with trying to ride bigger bikes off-road aggressively. 😗
EVEN THE PROS CRASH - OFTEN
One of our enduro vids went viral because it showed how often the pro riders crash when learning new stunts. th-cam.com/video/CrZsbcsIGbY/w-d-xo.html
For me the best bike still is the XR 650 R, just put it an electric start.
I would like to see a dr-z 650 built like the xr650r, a modern bike on the market. nothing fancy just the basics with electric start 60 horsepower and good suspension, no electronics, no Electronic suspension just a speedometer and a fuel indicator super basic bike with good power and very reliable.
KTM´s are fine but i don´t trust them. it is a shame that KTM don't solve the problems of the 690 and other bikes of their rank.
These big bikes are good for riding on the street and forest roads, confortable and with power. Africa Twin is very good but there are plenty cases on my country that owners are saying that the 1100 consumes 33 cl of engine oil every 1000 km´s.
The T7 world raid has an excelent suspention, on the street and off road, with a very reliable engine. Easy to hadle despite the weight. Has a sense of security.
The Suzuki V-strom 1050 DE it is heavy, but i think has the most reliable engine of bikes over 1000 cc on this segment.
I think these bikes are phenomenal for people that have money!! And want to travel and do like a good position of riding, people that ride Trail or Enduro bikes.
These add-s should not be banned, but in many, many cases disclaimer should be shown. For many instances we have observed and also discussed with some marketing deps about this (what and who they actually use for the cool videos). And sometimes the bike has almost double the cost in upgrades, and sometimes the rider is shown - is a barely 60kg lightweight on top of a 300 - making it look much more capable, than it is. My belief is, that the accidents happen due to lack of riding skill and electronics preventing developing it also. When I bought the first 1000cc bike, it scared the sh**t out me first time riding, so I dialed it down right away and took my timing getting use to the danger. Now - go to the store, ask for a 1300cc KTM to test, and it feels so tamed. But it is not, it is 250kg of danger on two wheels for a guy who maybe rode some sluggish dirt bikes 20++ years ago (looking in the mirror), so yes, less is more and a lot more fun too...
A few years ago, after having to pick it up close to 50 times on a trail that got my friend and I in way over our heads, I realized that even the KLR 650 was too big for me to enjoy on the trails I enjoy riding.
I have a gen2, at first I thought it'd be a big enduro & I'd "tear it up".. But reality is that it's my "adult" ct90, a trail bike, which is perfect for my riding environment 👍
But you certainly gave it a good try, Tyler. I remember the videos! I remember taking the DR650 on on some of our hard enduro tracks when I was in my early 50s. It was like a gym session lol. No way I'd be trying that again in my 60s... I hope all is well. 😁
Exactly, if you can't pick the bike up, don't take it off road. Even a trials bike seems to gain weight after a couple of hours of falling off.
F-ing right that bigger isn't better. 450 is my sweet spot. I keep my 1250GS on the more road like trails. know your limits. have fun!
Honestly... you'd probably have the unmatched time of your life on a Electric Bicycle.
I saved a friend from these ads. Took him dual sporting for a weekend with a light and a heavy bike. At the end of the weekend he thanked me and said I'd saved him from a costly mistake. He said he thought he wanted an adventure bike until he got out and hit some actual trails. Turned out he wanted a dual sport.
Well done!
They should push dual-sports instead of adventure bikes. Would make the world a better place.
I wish i had a similar experience, but at least i knew enough to look for the lightest adv i could find. now with some experience, i had a better idea of what sort of bike i need as well as just how unhinged advertisers are
I'm lucky enough to own both and agree. Big ADV bike is a pain on the trails and you can't really enjoy ADV on a dirtbike. Unicorns are a myth after all 😅
@@goatman86 The secret to happiness here is believing in unicorns. If Yamaha made a 550-600cc version of the Kove 450 with a Fisher seat and passenger pegs that would be my unicorn.
That’s why Pol Tarres promotes its own disclosure on the Tenere 700: “Warning you are not Pol Tarres”. If you’re not aware of it, you’re at fault if you crash 😂😂😂😂
I think the best thing people can do is regularly ride some hard slow tech, not only does it do wonders for your skills but also provides a safe reality check to show you how much you actually suck. If you only ride fast open stuff it's very easy to feel like the legend your not.
I found the best vehicle for learning the slow hard stuff was an electric unicycle. Those things give you darn near trials level skill, especially for things like stopping in place, hopping up on ledges, and learning to crash well.
Reminds me of a conversation I had with a helicopter medic. We were discussing how busy he was one weekend flying into Rocky Mountains to rescue ppl with broken bodies on adventure bikes. He mentioned seeing gs1200’s and Africa Twins laying next to them.
They were getting badly injured on simple terrain.
Lots of money for the nicest toys but makes me wonder if there is a pride factor with starting on something small.
Huge topic, and one we touch on in the vids quite a bit. Almost every experienced rider knows the go... but newcomers often think these big adv bike can be ridden like dirt bikes with minimal skills or training needed.
Without trying to sound like a smart arse, who said they were just starting out? This is coming from an experienced rider whom rides no bigger than a DR650 off road.
A lot of the issue is thst these bikes are being sold as capable offroaders that can do anything, and the only people falling for that kind of BS are typically beginners who don't know better. It's a bad mix, like a new rider with a hiyabusa level of bad.
There is certainly a pride factor. Specially for new riders. I literally saw one friend spit out of his mouth. "I want a real bike (liter bike) not a 600cc toy".
It really makes you value how many lives could be saving the A2 license here in the EU 😅😂
Light is Right - pick the lightest bike that meets your needs and understand the compromises and limitations. I find adventure bike marketing somewhat entertaining and in no way does it influence my decision on what bike is appropriate for my needs and skills.
I love the Pol Torres T7 videos, but I definitely think that they've convinced a lot of (far less skilled) guys to go out and buy one, thinking they can just hop on and ride them like a motocross bike.
Watching Tarres struggling every second with the big bike is a clear no no for me
I’ve been on dirt bikes my whole life, bought a new tenere last year. Knowing its weight and capabilities it’s perfect for streets, backroads, and light off roading but I’ll keep the light 2 stroke for really getting off road. These big heavy adventure bikes can get you in a position that you will have a very tough time getting out of if not careful.
And no one goes riding to hurt themselves do they? Keep it real!
Having not ridden off road for forty some years I bought a T7 after quitting sidecar racing. It'll be fun to do some greenlaning. Whilst the bike got me through a ton of places I should have fallen off I did realise I needed something smaller to practice on. I got a TTR250 and use it on local trails. I have learnt so much from it and gained more confidence on the T7. I do find myself looking for that 450/500 unicorn now though. As for those dirt bike gods on big adventure bikes? I love the vids - to me they are just a showcase for the bike's abilities in the right hands. No urge to try to copy them though.
Really smart move. It's great learning the skills on a small light bike then transfer them to the bigger ones.
I bought a XT600 after a 15 year break from off road riding, after a few weekends out with others on T7s and WR250s I realised a 250 was a whole lot better for me, 18 Months down the line I now have a lot more experience and a Fantic 450 which is so much fun.
im also entertaining the idea of getting something smaller to complement t7, though im more looking at something electric, ebike, those 45kmph surron/talaria or small e dirt or DS
I grew up riding dirt bikes and transitioned into street riding 4 years ago. I missed dirt riding, so I purchased a 2017 Africa Twin about a year and a half ago. I have found it excellent off-road so far, but will admit I do not try to ride it like a dirt bike (usually). I am definitely aware of its weight and size, and ride it with an extra degree of caution. For a beginner riding off-road, it would not be a good choice at all. The dirt-oriented adventure bikes are fun for an experienced rider, and I think the videos the manufacturers put out are generally good for showing what a bike could be capable of in the right hands, and gives riders something to aspire to. Most sane people realize that they are not capable of doing that kind of riding once they take their adventure bike off-road for the first time. It really exemplifies the "it's not the bike, it's the rider" saying.
Good point, so many of these discussions come back the old 80% the rider 20% the bike angle.
Start slow and go light to develop your skills and depending on what your riding mission is, get a larger more powerful ADV bike. Most riders use the bike to travel to great places to enjoy the outdoors. The ads seem to try to convince many that all they need is the big ADV Bike and the skills come with it. Riding is fun but injuries are not.
Cheers Barry!
I must admit I like a 650 for how effortlessly it thumps along the highways but I'm impressed with how even a 250 can do this if you aren't in a hurry.
@@crosstrainingadventure Very true!
THE MIGHTY DOC 650 !!! - Well said my brother !!!!
The harsh reality is that rider skill (or lack thereof) makes the biggest difference on the terrain you can ride. But that doesn't sell bikes. The marketers want you to think that buying that new bike will greatly improve your riding, or get you laid, or something. Put in lots of seat time and get some training. Being in some kind of shape above Couch Potato wouldn't hurt either.
Good point about the fitness, Garry. These guys are almost alway standing on the pegs when they start the trick riding and using a ton of body positioning...
Pro rider vids are a fun watch but Im perfectly happy pushing my TW 200 to its limits!
A very worthwhile conversation!! For sure some will be lured in way over their heads and with little or no experience should definitely start on a smaller off-road bike, but others hopefully will simply be challenged to practice, practice, practice, knowing that with learned skills many incredible things are possible on these newer generations of bikes! Cheers, Barry....ride safe!
Cheers Allen! Yeah a few guys think the topic is pointless because any experienced rider sees through the marketing hype (hopefully!). But of course riders new to the sport might just think the big bikes can be handled this way... so a cautionary hint doesn't hurt!
Very true!!@@crosstrainingadventure
I'm fairly competent on my WR450F on any trail I've found in Colorado (and I've found a lot of them)...
but jumping on my 890 Adv R turns me into a novice on the same trails and single track is usually a no-go due to the narrow gates (fuel tank doesn't fit through)...
but given how that big bike decides where it wants to go and only occasionally listens to my input, I tend to stick to double-track and fire roads.
My main issue with those add are that it often make for disappointed customer
One of my friend loved the Tenere 700 and he knew a guy which bought one without having street license. Less than a year later, the bike is allegedly holding only by wire and Ty-Rap after only a few light drop and some tree branch
My reaction was "Yeah, these are street bike, what did you expect?" Well because of those add (and some dubious reviewer) they believed it was just a big dirt bike
Nevermind the fact that it still handle like a hyppopotamus
I agree, Cedric. It's mainly the guys new to our sport who might get a bit misled by these ads. The rest of us know to enjoy the stunts but realise we won't be doing that shit lol.
I think the bikes getting bigger and more powerful is a big factor. "Better" suspension can also make people think the bike makes them more skilled than they are on inferior machine, which isn't true. Yeah, you get a higher tolerance for mistakes, but most of us make for more (and more severe) mistakes than pro riders in ADV bike ads.
Yup - it compensates for mistakes but the feedback about the 'limit' gets finer and the speed it lets go at gets way higher...
I have made this statement before, and got a lot of headwind for it. Bad suspension shows your mistakes earlier/at lower speeds. And I stand by that.
However if it comes to offrad riding, I am not sure if DR-Style Pogo-Stick suspension (damping rod) helps to teach you much. I have the feeling it just gets in the way and occupies a lot of brainpower anticipating what the heck it will do next, instead of using that brainpower to actually learn something.
Just because the damping is so progressive that you neither get feedback nor control, so its just constant guesswork instead of action and reaction.
I went from a KTM640LC4 to a DR-Z400E, then to a CRF250 Rally over the past 15 years. I'm so comfortable on the little Rally. Less risk, less expense, less maintenance, less hassle. I can go anywhere on it...without falling over, or breaking anything.
Middle aged guy here, somewhat new to dirt riding (long time road rider). I'm a big guy at 6'3" 230 lbs but still decided to go with a KTM 250 4 stroke plated for dual sport riding to start with. Nice and light and still borderline too much power for a full on noob.
Videos like these and others steered me toward starting off on a smaller displacement lighter bike. and I'll probably stick with it for many years. That said still love watching the hard enduro pros go at it on big bikes.
Keep up the great work!
I am one of those middle-aged men who was bitten by the adventure bug. I had ridden just a little as a kid and hadn't been on dirt in 35 years. I started with a KLR650 and took a beginner training class in Feb 2021. That went well and I realized this was something I really wanted to do, so I bought a KTM 890 Adv R and took an intermediate class. I have since ridden several BDRs, Baja and the Continental Divide trail, 12K miles so far. I love the Chris Birch videos but, just like I can't golf/ski/surf/woodwork/etc. like what is shown in marketing videos, I know I can't ride like him. My 890 has still been a fantastic choice for me, however. It does not require a pro to ride and it's capabilities can bail out the intermediate guy as well as serve the pro. All that being said, I recently bought a Beta 390 RR-S to have something lighter and less demanding for day rides and I will do some multi-day rides on it as well. It all comes down to judgement and good common sense.
Great choice, the engine in the 390 is superb. I'd love to see Beta offer the 390 and 500 in an adventure-style package.
@@crosstrainingadventure Absolutely! I think a long-stroke 500 (390 crank with 500 bore) engine and perhaps a cush drive could be amazing. I have my 390 set up with a larger tank, heated grips, a Giant Loop rack and a Seat Concepts seat. I plan to run my Giant Loop Coyote bag. I hope to find out soon how well it works in the light ADV role. I have actually exchanged emails with Jared at 3 Seas Recreation (@3SeasRecreation) about him doing an adventure build.
I was about to get a KLR until I saw the weight, got a DR instead and have been very happy with it.
@@F1since79I'm so close to pulling the trigger on a beta 390rs for light weight adv. The service intervals and high maintenance at 300 hours worries me as in Australia we cover big distances when riding on multi-day rides.
@@andrew390I would go for it. I have been told by more knowledgeable persons than I that the service intervals are based on racing use. Also, the bike only needs about .75 liters so carrying an oil change isn’t a huge challenge. I’ve also heard the 300 hour maintenance can be pushed to triple that. BUT, YMMV and don’t take my word for it. Peruse the forums and see if you find the same info.
Also, g’day! I’ve been down under several times including this past May. Always had a wonderful time. Beautiful country.
I find it inspirational tbh. Quite aware these guys have been riding bikes offroad 5+ times longer than me, but still, their videos helped me learn all the things I know today, and to have the guts to do it on my 901. I also love to travel and ride offroad in different countries, so having something smaller like 701 would be a big compromise in terms of comfort and protection from elements when I would ride 700kms daily for a week.
I love to see what bikes are capable of doing in skilled hands.
Same here. As per the vid I love watching these kind of antics and personally would be disappointed if they stopped. But I've heard so many guys discussing this topic I thought it would make an interesting vid.
I like watching the big bikes. I'll never have one or ride like that, but I do enjoy the footage. It's not my fault somebody with too much money and too little experience gets clubbed by one, unless I have to be Johnny on the Spot to help out. Also, people should know who they are with because most people, almost all, freak out when around anything like that. It's quite a shocking thing for most to see a displaced bone or blood, big bike or small, motorized or not
70 yo usually riding solo. Mostly backroads and dirt... Himalayan.... I carry a motowinch. 4 lbs.... Tested it..... Well worth the weight. I camp minimal anyways. good video... thanks
These videos show the bikes are capable. Which means i can comfortably ride my big adventure bike at 50% of these people's skill level, instead of worrying if I'll be way in over my head.
Very good points indeed! It's so scary to see riders believe that a 200+ kg and 150+ hp motorcycle can be used like a dirt bike and actually choose their motorcycle based on its "off road" capabilities.
love these videos . I often ride unpowered motorcycles and in a whole I find it teaches you to become a better rider . 80% rider 20% bike .. heard that before somewhere .
Carry that corner speed, man. I recommend a Lifan with knobbies for dirt riding noobs.
Being honest with yourself if one of the hardest things to do I think. Also, following through with the "nice to have" vs the "need" decision (not that we ever "need" toys, really).
As I grow older, my bikes get smaller and cheaper. I like to think that's because I've gained some wisdom, not that I'm cheap and broke.
I think the injury/accident (off road) is greatly increased by 3 things i have often observed-
a/choosing a heavy bike which is much harder to control off road
b/wearing "adventure gear" (flexible boots,internal ce armour which slips about etc etc)
c/lulled into a false sense of security when trail is going well,feeling excited,then "giving her a big handful"😀
All good points. And especially the adventure gear. Many of those boots are so flexible they aren't much better than gumboots lol.
About 15 years ago I was riding my Dakar 650 down a simple pole line road in the Mojave Desert near Jawbone Canyon. Needing a pee break I made a turn on to a downhill spur, realized my mistake, stopped, got off, tried to back it around, lost my footing, and ignominiously fell over with it on top of me. I laid there for a few seconds staring up at the sky and clouds through my fullface helmet pondering the totality of a 420 pound "dirt" bike, my 5'9" 160 pounds, my upper middle ageness, and how easy it was to get in this predicament. Then I decided to get up and move on. But I couldn't. That bike had fallen in such a way I could not shift it off. I struggled mindlessly for maybe 30 seconds before breathlessly giving up. I had another minute or so of pondering the sky and clouds. I wasn't uncomfortable, would probably survive long enough to be found alive. But then, my long past high school wrestling memories kicked in, and in a couple dep moves I escaped.
You might think that I had learned my lesson, but no, my next bike was a R1150GS. Then another Dakar. Then a DR650 nearly as heavy as a Dakar. Then another Daker. Then the bike that drove the lesson home - the mighty KTM 990 Adventure R. That beast tempted me, I'd catch myself going way too fast. Like a rock climber free soloing, I knew if I kept this up it would kill me someday. So I got a WR250R.
Glad you survived it all! I was trapped under a DR650 years ago, just a very awkward position. With only 15 people watching me lol.
Interesting topic of conversation.
I love the ads for their raw entertainment value but there will always be a few who's ego's out run their skills. ..."Hold my beer." Your suggestions are spot on.
At 62 I've picked up trials again and I'm loving the training and workout! I'm improving slowly and hoping it transfers to my Enduro riding come spring. That's a better and safer place to invest your wild side especially in older age segment. Coaching? Hell yes! and the earlier the better in order to practice the right way.
In the meantime, I'm loving watching Pol, Toni, Birchy's & others seemingly super human skills, and while awed & inspired I'm hopeful we're not too delusional about our own skills and don't rediscover reality the hard way.
"Wait, let me get my phone out... ok go."😂
I'm a half decent rider and love watching Chris Birch and Adam Riemanns showing off their skills. I was in out local forestry the other day and there was a pine tree over the road. I reckon I could have got over it. Did I wanna fuck around and find out I can't launch like Chris Birch and go A over T on my twenty plus thousand dollar Triumph Scrambler? Yeah nah. I'm gunna buy a DRZ for thrashing around the scrub. Love your channel, great stuff.
The two bike solution is usually the best 😁👍
The old XT,DR,XL,XR 500's were perfect. Just needed bigger fuel tanks and better lights.
i've never watched one until i saw your channel flying a DR650 100+ feet promoting the suspension upgrades I then bought.
I consider my T7 to be a lightweight sport tourer. But I still have crash bars and bark busters for the ever tempting fire roads.
R1150GS to a Yam Super Ten then down to an Africa Twin now on a T7 . This over a 10 yr period from 50 to 60. Also have the wonderful albeit woefully under powered CRF250L for the muddy single track stuff. Long live the Awesome Players Off Road Motorcycle Club 🏍️🇨🇦
Another great video. I have 30+ years in road and dirt bikes, so I like your message - it is relevant and useful. The newbies to motorcycling (at more "advanced" age) don't know the nuances. For example, most adventure riding on the tube is dudes riding on dirt roads - roads that I have ridden many times on road bikes. If they find this adventurous, all power to them. It is helpful to let them know that once they get some experience they will likely need a smaller bike - cos they will want to tacckle tougher terrain - well, they will tackle "terrain", rather than a graded dirt road....and I agree - watching lunatics do THAT with the Africa Twin lardboat is AMAZING!! lotsa fun!!! 😂😂😂
Have to admit I love watching the pro riders treat them like trials bikes!
This is why I'm aiming to get a Himalayan for my first bike. A low power bike with enough torque to get my around the trails but not enough power to get me into too much trouble in the open
I'm an intermediate gp track rider
Bought an Africa Twin DCT a few years ago for touring and intro to off-road
Did lots of touring but too scared to off-road because it was big and heavy
Sold it and bought a TW200 and took an off-road riding class and immediately started offroading
After a few years of Tdubbing I'm ready to trade up to a real dirt bike
Should have started with a Tdub but the Africa Twin looked cool and they let me test drive it haha
Hi everyone. This is somewhat off topic, but I would like to thank you guys for your video on the best boots to get. I was swayed by your arguments for getting the best possible boots ( I went with SG12's) and just yesterday I binned my bike at around 40kph, the bike landing on my right ankle and folding my foot forward and to the side. In real time during the crash as I felt my foot folding, I thought that it was certainly going to snap my ankle, but I actually also felt the point at which the boot stopped my foot from rotating any further and thus leaving me with a very sore and swollen ankle, but one that I can somewhat still walk on and within the next week or two be back to work etc. I have no doubt at all that the boot saved me from at minimum a trip to hospital for some plaster work. The price of the boots was paid for in full by just this first accident I have had, and I'm sure , considering my riding abilities, they will be tested again.
So, thanks again, everyone, for your input into the discussions of safety gear
Hope you all had a great Christmas and a happy new year. Stay safe
As a side note. The boots took zero noticeable damage in the crash
Great to hear, glad you didn't snap any bones. With enough force any boot is going to eventually give up and let major injuries occur, but I do think the best boots do a good job of balancing protection with being able to still walk in them. And best of all they should be providing similar protection five years down the track... or more. 😎👍
Most big adventure bikes never get off the blacktop in reality they are mainly used for touring because they can be ridden for long distances in reasonable comfort and look cool doing it, a GS 1200 with aluminium panniers make you look like Ewan and Charlie heading on the long way round, best BMW marketing ever that one, and they kept on crashing and got fed up with the weight but people went out in their thousands and bought a GS, so the question is why ?
They showed they were a beast of a bike to lift up continuously and did break things but damn did they look cool doing it.
I actually never watched the show but I heard they really wanted to run with KTM but the Austrians weren't interested? If so they missed a massive marketing opportunity... although if the bikes weren't reliable it could have been disastrous too lol.
I started (adventure riding, not riding overall) on a Tenere 700, and that was pretty fine for me for light trail riding. Fine so long as I wasn't going to pick up the bike more than twice in a day.
There's no way I'd go any heavier unless I was ONLY riding dirt roads. No chance at all. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, the bigger adventure bikes (Africa Twin an larger) are touring bikes made to handle decently maintained dirt roads, and that's it.
I respect some people can handle them in rougher circumstances, but I'd hazard a guess that that list of people is WAY smaller than a lot of would-be members thinks.
Even the T7 at 450ish lbs is *heavy* to lift.
The tricky part is, if you're not lucky enough to live close to good offroad riding (I need a MINIMUM of an hour of highway riding to get to decent offroad riding) smaller bikes suck. Spending hours on a highway on a crf450 sounds like nightmare fuel for me.
So we buy the bigger bike. But frankly I feel you're better served just buying a trailer at that point and getting an even smaller bike, towing your bike to where you want to ride, then driving home after. Then you can go even lighter and smaller and have a much better time in the dirt.
I don't like the idea of owning a Chinese bike but must admit the new Kove 800X looks tempting. Very much like a T7 but they claim it's about 20kg lighter...
Having spent hundreds of miles and hours on a Crf450l on the highway, it’s not too bad as long as you have a mini fairing and a good seat.
I would say have a bigger notice that these are expert riders and few will ever get to their skill levels. I recently totalled my super ten, that was my daily bike. But i took it off road, some of which were single track stuff that you'd only take a dual sport through. Yea i struggled, dropped it a bunch of times but had fun. Have a 850gs now, and plan on doing the same. Taking a big ADV off road, you will drop it, its going to be a atruggle. But still can have lots of fun as long as you keep your expectation on big bike levels, not dual sport.
For me its pretty much fun entertainment, but it gives me motivation to see how capable those bikes are in thr right hands
Those adds are pretty awesome but the end of the day if you just want to ride trails, get a dirt bike. If you want the versatility of a full size adv, then get one. I personally would not be happy sacrificing the road performance and reliability and comfort of my AT just to get a lighter bike for offroad. There is a high skill cap for mastering offroad on an adv - I like the idea of that challenge, regardless of how close I get to achieving it.
I don't think anything will ever beat a ute and an enduro bike for actual off road adventure.
YOu are correct. Rules no 1,2,3 of dirtbikes is choose the lightest bike that will do the job. As you age, make that rules 1-6. Even working on a twin or moving it around a garage or loading it onto a trailer become too much of a hassle as you age. At 67 I'm down to a KTM 500, which is the lightest you can go. Another good rule to follow, choose the bike that will cope with the worst terrain you can envisage. That means the lightest bike again.
Me too. In my 60s now and considering the 500EXCF next...
Oldsmobile used Jet and Rocket to describe their engines and put large tailfins with afterglow signals. It was a very optimistic time and only a few people actually rode a rocket - maybe count on hands including monkey and dog. There probably were a few generation that thought they were Jetson.
The growth in adventure bike capability is still on B'nW TV.
You trying to say I wasn't a Jetson???
Doing rider training is always a good idea .
Most adventure riders on big bikes do lite off roading ie gravel roads etc and is basically treated as a comfy sports tourer
Absolutely
You nailed it ! (Aprilia tuareg 660 -rider)
Thinking with the small head, ego over aspiration and a diminished sense of real ability is fucking dangerous.
Your words ring very true “to ride fast on gravel, you first have to learn how to ride slow”.
What isn’t shown from the making of these promo’s is the myriad bloopers, crashes and fuck ups that even the legends make - the difference is they anticipate it - they expect and know how to fall off.
I had a cycling mate who was never going to be quick on the road, so he discovered downhill MTB something he could be competitive in by throwing $ at it. He was proud that he never fell off - well now he’s in his 2nd year recovering from a life changing brain injury from when he finally did.
Point being, the modern gear lets riders, especially on the road get away with ever increasing speed but the place where feedback about the ‘limit’ is gets ever smaller - it becomes a knife edge that only the MotoGP aliens can tip toe across.
A guy who would often pass me in my ‘newbie caution’ on the beach sideways at 100+kmh on his KTM1290, not long ago spent an hour trapped under it with a broken ankle and an in-coming tide.
Dying like the hero in a James Bond movie might look glamorous in the movies but IMHO - fuck that for a game of soldiers.
Great point! A few years back we did vid on the enduro channel called 'When pro rider turn bad'. It showed the constant crashes as these gold class hard enduro riders were trying to learn new stunts!
I think this started with the KTM Super Enduro vids almost 20 years ago
Half the problem is the fault of the buyer. They weigh the bike down with tons of accessories and then try to do things that the rider is not skilled enough to do. The bike is perfectly capable, with the right set of skills. Pol Tarres is not the only guy that can ride a T7 like a dual sport (although he might be the only guy that can ride one in Erzberg conditions). You will notice that Yamaha advertising does not promote Pol level riding, and I remember Adrien Van Beveren at the launch saying they tamed down the riding for the marketing shoot.
The ads definitely confuse people. Whilst i don't think any average rider think they can do the same after watching Pol, it nudges your rational mind out of the way of getting what you can manage.
I suspect the biggest effect is people getting the wrong bike, and not doing much if any at all of the off road riding they wanted to do. I only see dual sport on the trails near me, not a single even mid size adventure bike.
All depends on what you are planning to do with the bike. I wanted something that can do a bit of everything. I know my skill limits and have a blast on my Tiger 1200 Rally Explorerbot on and offroad. Its als awesome for two up touring. Since I can only have one bike, I am more than happy with my purchase.
Right on
Never heard of a death in hard enduro so no but everyone should test and know their limits before they even attempt to ride this hard. Pol Tarres also enters competitions with the Tenere 700, it isn't just a show I would say, at least in his case.
Agreed on the dirt bike suggestion. Wish they made a long maintenance interval dirt bike.
It would probably wouldn't sell, but I'd love to see some of the big bore enduro models detuned and set up for more reliability. And add 1 litre to the oil capacity.
Crusty Demons of Adventure bikes 🏍️
😂
I would love to see Seth hit a dune topped out in "last gear" on a T7.
I bought a T7 mid last year after 15 years of road riding. 18 months on I don't regret it, it's an awesome bike but the dirt learning curve would have been heaps easier on a WR250R or similar.
I love the T7 for longer rides and commuting though.
I started out on a R1200GS and sold it to get a DR650. Then, I bought a CRF250L for the single track and more technical stuff. Kept the DR and CRF for 18 months after gaining confidence, and skills and attending an advanced dirt riding clinic. Now I have progressed to an Africa Twin and can happily ride dirt and more challenging terrain and still have a blast - I would never have gained the confidence and skills on the R1200GS alone - I definitely advise starting small and then choosing a bigger bike if you so desire. I wrote my CRF250L off from continued abuse and always falling off (don't become a good sailor in calm seas 😁.) Now I need another small bike for the technical stuff. More Enduro type like KTM 350 or similar. Great content, as always. Thanks.
Some great options in that category, Jay... 350EXCF, Sherco 300SEF, Beta RR350 and RR390. Long stroke engine on the RR390 is superb if you want more linear power delivery and a bit more of a dual sport feel.
Fuel tank Warning sticker for T7 "WARNING: You are not Pol Tarres". This is what riders of my rally group did when they ordered their T7 two years ago, following the hype. That was the most meaningful warning sticker I have ever seen on a bike fuel tank. Meanwhile, one came back to a KTM EXC 500 to reenjoy riding, although he made podium at trials German championship back in the years. Dito!
Great sticker!
I think Pol is like 6’ 8”, which is worth mentioning. Makes the adv bikes look normal sized 😅
I'm waiting for a adventure bike max 450 cc from the green boys, wich you can ride also with the wife on the back. Versys 450 or something like that. 50 hp is more then enough to have fun on and offroad.
I'm not fan of Chinese bikes but the new CFmoto 450 could be heading along the right lines...
I fell for the marketing Hype, bought a Honda Africa twin, rode it for 2 years traded on a smaller road oriented bike and looking now for a used 250cc dual sport to learn off-road on.
Great bikes for sure... but usually a bit overwhelming if you didn't start riding dirt roads on something smaller.
Step 1: Buy a bike you can actually afford to buy and maintain. Rule: If you cant buy 2 of them without a credit it's too expensive.
Step 2: Get to know the bike on the streets or easy gravel roads. Best with some riding buddies.
Step 3: Go on a 4 - 7 day ride with more experienced riders to learn the drill on a group ride.
Step 4: Take off road riding trainig.
Step 5: Go on a off road tour with your more experienced friends.
Step 6: Learn how to fix minor problems yourself.
Step 7: Do what you want with the bike without fear.
All good points 👍
What? There's only one guy rocking a Hayabusa sport-bike as his 'adv' bike?
And he's not even mentioned?! "Matt Spears - Crotch Rocket at Moab, Hells Gate" 🤘🤣
Great video as always! I'm reminded of the guy that do 12 o' clock wheelies
on full size HD baggers.. Just because a few people do it - doesn't make it the norm.
[Then video after video comes out of people's 'attempts' followed by their 'Wrecks'.]
As long as people are born, there's gonna be suckers born, and those are the ones
who all of these ads seem to be aimed towards.
Those bagger wheelies! 😗
Ive had my zx14r up some rocky surfaces and down some sketchy roads to get to camp locations or photo opportunities in the rocky mountains. Theyre exceptional off road aswell because of the same reason theyre praised on the street, their low center of gravity.
I think you're right, and its not limited to ADV bikes. The ubiquitous bike here in Los Angeles area is the KTM EXC 500, its considered "The Little Bike" by many, but its still capable of reaching well over 100 mph, even with low gearing. Some guy from Holland just completed the Baja 1000 on one, and it was a 2014 model he bought a few days before the event. THAT is an over powerful machine for us 40-80 year olds out in the desert.
BUT, with great power comes great intoxication, and I don't see our poorly evolved monkey brains being able to logic our way out of this one. After all, we'd all be safer in SxS's, wouldn't we?
Plenty of guys adventurising the 500EXCF. I'd love to see KTM bring out an adv model. Big oil capacity. Comfy seat. Big tank. Cush drive hub. Rally screen. Stronger subframe etc. There would be some overlap with the 690 but it should also weigh 40kg less. 😍
@@crosstrainingadventure Yeah. For now we're just adding True North racks, 15T front sprockets and a Gasbag and calling it Light ADV. Although for me a key point is to do THAT to a 13-16 EXC because they seem to have the legs. A bit beefier in every dept.
You raise an interesting point I've wondered about, which is what will the Kove 450 do to the Pumpkin patch plans. It seems KTM have been caught napping on this one, although they've never really been ones to listen to their fanbase, which is fervently loyal. All we wanted was a successor to the mighty 640 ADV. The Kove and AJP PR7 are bikes KTM could've made fairly easily.
48 year old here. Bought the T7 mostly because I love the look of it and because I do a lot of on road group rides. I wanted something comfortable for the road, but also a bike that I can use off road if I wanted to. I have zero experience off road, but thought the T7 couldn’t be that bad to learn on.
But now looking back, I should just have bought a Honda CRF 300. It wouldn’t be as much fun on road, but it will be a lot easier to pick up after a tip over. The T7 is a bitch to lift back up and it’s really top heavy. But I love it on road. Maybe I should save up for a Honda 300
We got to ride the CRF300Ls a lot in a recent three week trip to Canada. Surprisingly fun to ride and we'll do a review soon.
@@crosstrainingadventure
Sounds good I’ll be looking forward to it 👌🏻
I bought a Honda CRF300L Rally as my first bike. White helmet and my hot weather jacket is hi-viz yellow. I can confirm that being on a big red bike with a bright yellow jacket leads to fewer issues than driving my truck. Plus, on the bike, I get the benefit of lane positioning. The only thing I can't do much about are the few people who seemingly have no issue with tailing a motorcycle... some people just shouldn't be allowed to drive. As for the ads, I have no problem with them. It's the end user who needs to understand that they lack the skill to be able to pull off the same stunts as those pro level riders. Just buying and riding a T7 isn't going to magically make someone glide over obstacles.
The tailgating is weird. I had a friend who drove like that. No aggression at all. But she just always sat on everyone's rear.
Coming from and still owing a 400kg cruiser (x-country) I thought it would be easy to handle a 220-250kg bike at 62y
but watching the young one's struggle no matter how fit there are on the various sites, I've opted for a RE452, just under 200kg, b4 my tummy op I could pick up the cruiser, (some difficulties) but not now. I tested the 800DE zook to much power for what I wanted, and did the tip over test just managed, & I recon that this bag of old bones could lift up the RE452. 20-30kg dose make a lot of differance, I guess when it come to Oz in feb-march 24 we'll know. two bikes are better than one... Merry Christmas everyone
Yes that extra 20kg can make a big difference. I've even noticed with the DR650 how much heavier it feels with a full tank of fuel... and that's only about 10kg.
I started off road on a BMW GS1200, however at the time I had no intention of venturing beyond jeep trails. I did that for about 4 years (increasing trail difficulty) and switched to a KTM 500. As I spent more time off road and pushed myself well beyond the jeep trails I just got tired of the repairs/maintenance, and picking up a heavy bike on goat trails.
One upside to the pro videos was that it did give my confidence to know that the bike wasn’t the problem.
I got the “bug” out of my system. My first major injury was on the 500 though 🤷🏻♂️
Unfortunately I haven’t been back in a couple years but definitely will be reaching for the 500.
I'm considering an adventurised 500EXCF as well... the older I get, the lighter the bike hopefully.
The marketing videos are trying to sell the capability of the bike. Most owners will only do dirt roads with a mid-large adv bike, but they want to know their bike is capable of more. In reality, it is a huge chore and not fun to go full Pol-Tarres with these heavy machines. Let alone the cost of replacing things the videos don't show you. But that idea that you're riding some road version of a factory race bike is very marketable. Like Honda used to say in the 80's: "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday."
I have a friend who is considering selling his KTM 500 and using his 790 Adventure for the easier trails. Sounds reasonable enough, but even the 500 can be too much for him at times, he barely ever rides, and has a bad back from getting rear-ended on the street years ago....and he's almost 60. I've strongly encouraged him to keep the 790 on pavement as even a simple tip-over at a weird angle could make the bike nearly impossible to pick up on his own. I do greatly enjoy these videos though, but I do believe they encourage a lot of new riders to get in over their heads.
From what you say it sounds like he'd be way better off keeping the 500EXCF but maybe adventurise it a bit? Get it lowered, comfy seat, big tank etc? I'm in my 60s now and weight is top of the list whenever I look at new bikes.
There is not a better reality check than your first technical ride on a big adventure bike.
Yep, there's no way to bluff your way through.
I've ridden enough enduro and single track to know and at 56 I'm old enough not to fooled or influenced by marketing BS.... I bought a DRz400s for ADV use...
I think they do influence people. I have seen mutiple examples on offroad rides where some people take these adv bikes. Have seen a capable guy on T7 ripping but the most infamous one. Is the guy on his GS who had more balls than brains.
The first picture is his GS stuck belly deep mud and the second one his GS took bath in a ditch.
He would have had so much more fun on 250 4 stroke and would so much less likely to hurt him self or the bike.
They are definitely doing false advertising by hiring these pros to ride in places where the average rider will not be able to! Myself included
Just the Fact that you would have to explain THIS to someone would be Enough reason for THAT someone NOT to buy a motorcycle to Begin with... Good stuff, Thanks for posting...😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
It’s going to get some people in impossible situations, especially the T7. Got a DR650, but almost got a klx300. As my back gets worse, I still might go smaller.
Same here, back issues (and age) will get me looking at bikes lighter than the DR650 soon.
Pan the America
"Riding it like a dirt bike"
LMAO
I was watching a group ride conducted by another Australian TH-camr, with several participants mounted on shiny new litre-plus adventure bikes.
They visited one location with a descending gravel driveway. Getting in was a ginger affair, but get back out was an unexpected challenge for many and a couple had to simply get someone else to ride their _'bitten-off-more-than-they-could-chew'_ behemoths.
No skills, but they bought the dream!
Always makes for good comedy... if no one gets seriously hurt!
What people forget is fun is in the power to weight ratio, and sometimes ultimate power just isn’t necessary.
Yeah, if you’re a two wheeled guy or gal. Some of the BS Marketing of huge adventure bikes are ridiculous! Like a cover for magazine of a pro rider on a GS Adventure doing a wheelie, then you open the pages and the pro rider crashed 💥. *Don’t buy into the hype, purchase and ride what fits and suits your needs.*
Well said!
I love watching those guys make beasts dance like Enduro bikes. Even though I've been riding dirt bikes longer than most people have been alive, I know I don't have the skills to even try what they do. I second the idea of learning on a dirt bike before ever going out on the road, the learning curve is much faster and safer. BUT these days some people play a video game and think they have the real thing figured out so, let Darwin do his job.
Survival of the most cautious lol
I think the marketing shows what the bike can do with a really good rider on it. Hopefully people realise the marketers are just presenting their product in the best light. I also agree starting on a dirt bike is the best recommendation for newbies to learn skills
I just bought a 1250GSA. But I’m not going to be doing enduro on it 😂 I think it’ll be fair, that BMW v the rest when it comes to the marketing are quite realistic when it comes to the potential of their 1250- they push their Safaris hard, but the routes are well within the parameters of the bikes ability
I think all marketing is to some extent irresponsible.
99% of the people riding dirtbikes in would kill themselves trying to land a supercross jump too, but that doesn’t stop manufacturers advertising MX bikes in that way.
Ditto with any sportbike over 250cc.
I do think that modern adventure bikes make it easier to get into trouble because they’re so capable. Excellent suspension, chassis, and electronics make it easier to get closer to the limit without actually feeling like you are… and making it more of a surprise when you cross it.
Great point Dimitriy. Ditto for 4x4 ads. Noobs often wind up bogged, broken down miles from anywhere, or rolling their vehicles trying to do the fancy stuff they see in the ads.
I’m going to buy a hypermotard 696, use it everyday. Occasionally i will replace tires for travelling in mountains around the city.
And for winters i’m going to buy a snowbike kit to turn it into a snowbike.
I know its a ducati and bla-bla-bla. But i’m gonna use it 100% of its abilities.
I survived a 650, am currently riding a 400, and am now looking for my future 250/300. To become old and wise, we must first survive young and stupid.
Aint' that the truth lol. I shudder when I remember some of the dickhead riding from my 20s and 30s.
I started with a KLR650 in 2016, and after 7 years of riding a 2006 and a 1997, I've finally upgraded. To a 2023 klr650. Whoops!
Really, though, I want a CRF300L Rally or something light. Having 110 hp would be fun but I don't need the price, weight or maintenance cycle associated with those bikes.
I was briefly looking at the crf450RL but I'm 90% certain i'd kill myself on accident
buy a DRZ 400 or a Dr 650
Perfect video, excellent subject. Maximum 600 cc and have fun.
Excluding fire roads my off road riding is designated 100% to the trials bike now. Get trials bike if you want experience the off road. They are a ton of fun and teach great skills.
😁👍
from what I've seen, the promo material is part of it but a big part (and maybe the biggest) is other riders. I remember when I was looking for my first bike. I knew I'd want to ride trails, start off with something easy like logging roads then move on to something more challenging and eventually some single track. I also knew that, without a truck, the only way i was getting it to the trail was by riding it. Lots of people seemed to think middle-weight street bikes were a bare minimum to safely ride on highways, and enduro or dual sport bikes were completely untenable for more than 10-20min rides on roads. If you're a new rider, you're going to dismiss the 300cc dual sports out of hand despite that being a great place to start. dealerships not allowing test rides don't make it any better
This will always drive me absolutely nuts. There are people who have traveled the world by two wheels multiple times, and it's usually done on a 250cc or under. Honestly, the avg cc for world riders is probably 125. Yet I just spoke to someone yesterday who claimed that 650cc is not enough for highway cruising. These advertisers have new bike owners brainwashed.
@@domenik8339 agreed, every year bikes get bigger and heavier to because NUMBER GO UP despite it not being what anyone asked for.
Completely agree. If you are into outright power, fine. But making blanket statements like 650s are too small for the highway is ridiculous.
I have a DR650 and don't expect my skill will ever get beyond what it could do. I can carry camping gear, just don't take it on the interstate.
When I did enduro competition 40 years ago, my purpose built bikes would have beat any modern adventure bike, in every way. Built for the purpose, plus practiced skills.
Don't fall for this, it's just a dirt road capable street bike.
Ride Trials, you'll get real offroad skills.
Manufacturers do not offer logical dual sport motorcycles. There's a few offert of light 450cc, mono 600cc,
Another great video and bang on the money - good to get a debate going about the marketing hype we love to see (hopefully with a big pinch of salt).
Love a good debate and seeing all the different opinions. 😁
I'm absolutely happy with crf300l, anything heavier would be a nightmare in some situations
Wasn’t the power for me, it was the physical size and weight 🪨 of the BMW 1200 GS, just physically too large. It felt like the bike was riding me. Switched up to Ducati Multistrada 1200, then I felt like I was riding the bike with passion ❤️🔥!
I had a few rides on my brother's GS... fantastic on the road but felt like a massive tank once we were on the dirt.
The promos are exactly that - promos. Nobody with any common sense suddenly thinks “I’m going to enter a hard enduro with my big arse GS”. It’s just promos, and I like em’ 🙂