You perfectly described the situation I am going through with one of my children- Lamanite blindness. And your antidote is exactly what the Spirit has whispered to me-love.
Mitch Hedberg (a comedian) talked about the beer commercial-type advertising, “You know when you see an advertisement for a casino, and they have a picture of a guy winning money? That’s false advertising, because that happens the least. That’s like if you’re advertising a hamburger, they could show a guy choking. “This is what happened once.””
Another thought: Noah killing Abinadi leads me to compare Noah and his people to Jerusalem in 600 BC. I can see many parallels there: wickedness, focus on Law keeping over righteousness, rejecting the coming Messiah, killing/imprisoning the prophet, a bad alliance, pending destruction, a righteous prophet escapes with his people.
I love the shadow of Zeniff being a shadow of the creation story... God seeing what was good, proposing to go down to it. A rebellion ensued...then the insight to the sorrow and mourning for the lost that were cast out. I think there are many lessons to learn from this but one of them I think is to see this as a creation story. A fall and a return.
Mosiah 7:3. Ammon was a descendant of Zarahemla, which means he was a Mulekite, which turned out to some of the most faithful people in the Book of Mormon.
Check out my friend’s map here: www.theredheadedhostess.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mosiah-map0001.pdf I really like to use this map when teaching youth, it helps them see how the whole book of Mosiah works in one simple image.
I’ve never known quite where to be with Zeniff. Naive comes to mind, but also completely with no guile and a matter of fact guy. The closest I can come to is Lot. That crazy but lovable uncle that while he never realizes it’s his own fault, is constantly getting into trouble and family has to bail him out.
I (Mike) think Zeniff is showing us a nuanced view of King Benjamin. What if the “blood thirsty man” that he speaks of was Benjamin? What if the BOM is giving us a sophisticated view of the way people appear, based on our point of view? What if this presentation is asking us to consider how we view our leaders? Zeniff’s people eventually come back, but it comes with a tremendous cost, both in lives, time, and treasure. What if Benjamin was BOTH just and also imperfect in much the way Zeniff saw him? Perhaps if we lived in Zeniff’s day and saw what he saw during combat, our views would be nuanced and we may have had to really stop and ponder how we were to live, who we were to follow. Clearly, it was messy, because some of the Nephites followed Zeniff and some followed King Benjamin. When I read the text this way, I see more layers and it affects how I need to grant mercy to those in authority over me… at least consider it. Of course, the text doesn’t tell us who Zeniff was speaking of, but it sure seems like KB fits this description considering he himself discussed taking up the sword in defense of his people.
@@talkingscripture I posited this (not word for word nor the source) on another forum and received this response. Any thoughts? The contention happened in the wilderness, so it was sometime in that first group. Zeniff was sent out as a spy in that first expedition, so presumably was not the leader. Then there was a conflict and I bet the leader of the first expedition died, so Zeniff led a second expedition where he refers to the men as his and negotiates an alliance, actions done by a leader. There were two expeditions, and Zeniff got promoted between the two.
Don't miss Mosiah 17:8. It matches Mosiah 7:27-28, in that they killed Abinadi because he said God will come down among men. Probably claimed this was blasphemy, and thus grounds for death. Also, interesting that they reject the condescension of God, which is so central to Nephi's great vision.
I don’t see anything righteous about Zeniff . King. Mosiah left the land to avoid falling into the hands of the. Lamanites . Why would anyone want to go back to that land of Nephi? Zeniff Not only had half of us people killed because he was so Overzealous. And then he brought his people into bondage.
I see what you’re saying. In Joseph Spencer’s newest book he suggests Mormon depicts Zeniff sort of as a counterfeit Nephi (we’re missing the first part of Mosiah so it is tough to know). But his controversial opinion (let’s not slaughter the Lamanites) should count for something. Apparently many Nephites thought nothing of killing of a colony or so. It is tough to say… since it was the Nephites land to begin with. I got from the vid that Zeniff ran into the great and spacious building without seeing the 2x4s in the foundation. His life is certainly a warning to all of us. A warning you seem to be tracking! Good luck my friend.
Well he does "go with the power of god" to fight the Lamanites. I think he got ahead of himself forsure but I don't think he was a bad guy. I think he thought he could change the Lamanites, but that is a losing proposition.
I love your podcast so much, you guys are so helpful! Are you on instagram? I found Bryce but it looks like just a personal account. And Mike's name is so common I'll never find him!
So good! I will look for Lehi's dream throughout the Book of Mormon now! Thanks, brethren!
Thank you for putting the rhetoric against the Lamanites in context! I didn’t realize how much I was just reading the text through my own lens.
You perfectly described the situation I am going through with one of my children- Lamanite blindness. And your antidote is exactly what the Spirit has whispered to me-love.
Such great insight! Thank you!
Awesome!! Love the blindnesses!!❤❤ Thank you!
I truly appreciate the concept of being tree, rod, river, building and even enemy blind. So applicable!!
Mitch Hedberg (a comedian) talked about the beer commercial-type advertising, “You know when you see an advertisement for a casino, and they have a picture of a guy winning money? That’s false advertising, because that happens the least. That’s like if you’re advertising a hamburger, they could show a guy choking. “This is what happened once.””
Another thought: Noah killing Abinadi leads me to compare Noah and his people to Jerusalem in 600 BC. I can see many parallels there: wickedness, focus on Law keeping over righteousness, rejecting the coming Messiah, killing/imprisoning the prophet, a bad alliance, pending destruction, a righteous prophet escapes with his people.
Thank you
Love is the antidote! Yes!
55:10 😂😂😂 Is that Mike gigling in the background?! 🤣🤣 I love it. It made me giggle too!
I love the shadow of Zeniff being a shadow of the creation story... God seeing what was good, proposing to go down to it. A rebellion ensued...then the insight to the sorrow and mourning for the lost that were cast out. I think there are many lessons to learn from this but one of them I think is to see this as a creation story. A fall and a return.
Mosiah 7:3. Ammon was a descendant of Zarahemla, which means he was a Mulekite, which turned out to some of the most faithful people in the Book of Mormon.
How can I get a map of this? I am a visual learner and would love a map of all the lands and migrations.
Check out my friend’s map here: www.theredheadedhostess.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mosiah-map0001.pdf
I really like to use this map when teaching youth, it helps them see how the whole book of Mosiah works in one simple image.
I’ve never known quite where to be with Zeniff. Naive comes to mind, but also completely with no guile and a matter of fact guy. The closest I can come to is Lot. That crazy but lovable uncle that while he never realizes it’s his own fault, is constantly getting into trouble and family has to bail him out.
I (Mike) think Zeniff is showing us a nuanced view of King Benjamin. What if the “blood thirsty man” that he speaks of was Benjamin? What if the BOM is giving us a sophisticated view of the way people appear, based on our point of view? What if this presentation is asking us to consider how we view our leaders? Zeniff’s people eventually come back, but it comes with a tremendous cost, both in lives, time, and treasure. What if Benjamin was BOTH just and also imperfect in much the way Zeniff saw him? Perhaps if we lived in Zeniff’s day and saw what he saw during combat, our views would be nuanced and we may have had to really stop and ponder how we were to live, who we were to follow. Clearly, it was messy, because some of the Nephites followed Zeniff and some followed King Benjamin. When I read the text this way, I see more layers and it affects how I need to grant mercy to those in authority over me… at least consider it. Of course, the text doesn’t tell us who Zeniff was speaking of, but it sure seems like KB fits this description considering he himself discussed taking up the sword in defense of his people.
@@talkingscripture I posited this (not word for word nor the source) on another forum and received this response. Any thoughts?
The contention happened in the wilderness, so it was sometime in that first group. Zeniff was sent out as a spy in that first expedition, so presumably was not the leader. Then there was a conflict and I bet the leader of the first expedition died, so Zeniff led a second expedition where he refers to the men as his and negotiates an alliance, actions done by a leader. There were two expeditions, and Zeniff got promoted between the two.
Don't miss Mosiah 17:8. It matches Mosiah 7:27-28, in that they killed Abinadi because he said God will come down among men. Probably claimed this was blasphemy, and thus grounds for death.
Also, interesting that they reject the condescension of God, which is so central to Nephi's great vision.
I don’t see anything righteous about Zeniff . King. Mosiah left the land to avoid falling into the hands of the. Lamanites . Why would anyone want to go back to that land of Nephi? Zeniff Not only had half of us people killed because he was so Overzealous. And then he brought his people into bondage.
I see what you’re saying. In Joseph Spencer’s newest book he suggests Mormon depicts Zeniff sort of as a counterfeit Nephi (we’re missing the first part of Mosiah so it is tough to know).
But his controversial opinion (let’s not slaughter the Lamanites) should count for something. Apparently many Nephites thought nothing of killing of a colony or so. It is tough to say… since it was the Nephites land to begin with.
I got from the vid that Zeniff ran into the great and spacious building without seeing the 2x4s in the foundation. His life is certainly a warning to all of us. A warning you seem to be tracking! Good luck my friend.
Don't Leave Zarahemla, the grass always appears greener...
Well he does "go with the power of god" to fight the Lamanites. I think he got ahead of himself forsure but I don't think he was a bad guy. I think he thought he could change the Lamanites, but that is a losing proposition.
His righteousness came as he realized his mistakes and chose to do better.
1:01:44 "wronged", I don't feel like Christ corrected the thinking of, must've been wronged because a sin you've committed, or a generational sin
My “emergency room” is, they’ve eaten something bad and need a toilet 😊
I love your podcast so much, you guys are so helpful! Are you on instagram? I found Bryce but it looks like just a personal account. And Mike's name is so common I'll never find him!