I started ESO a month before Vvardenfell, and fell in love with Warden (stamden) for the aesthetic (was a hunter main on WoW for ages). I can't imagine regularly switching characters, and I think it would not be very fun to always chase the meta.
It is after a certain point in the game, as he said, when you are the top x% (i would say 10%). Lets say you are doing a Hard mode dungeon, arena or trial for the first time: you REALLY notice the diference if your healer actually buffs you, and thats for offensive and defensive buffs. As a support, you REALLY feel the difference if the dps are arcanists and are cleaving all the adds without effort, so the tank doest have to hold them + the boss for 30 seconds. So it really becomes a necessity. Can you do it without the meta? Possibly some of the content, but not all (like trifectas). So the "can you do it" isnt the appropriate question, since you can probably do many dungeons without a weapon equipped, its just gonna be more painful. Its a matter of wheres the "level of comfort" you are willing to bring to other people on your group. The further you are from the meta, the more someone else will have to do stuff for you (on harder content, like i said above). Its kinda a balance between fun and comfort + consistency. Of course you should play what is fun to you, but what i mean is, that after a certain point What is good actually becomes whats fun, because the fun is in being the most eficient, not the aesthetics or something like that (they matter ofc, just not the most anymore)
"Find the class aesthetic that you like." This is a really good explanation of why I really enjoy Necromancer but don't have fun with Warden. The two classes feel very similar and I found the damage loops similar, but I didn't get very far as a Warden All classes are viable and with work can be made "good enough" for anything you want to do at any level. That doesn't mean all are fun That's why I stopped chasing the meta. My threshold for "good enough" allows for a lot of wiggle room. Sure, my non-optimized Necro or NB may only hit 100k rather than 130k, but how often will that 30k matter? Almost never. Sure, this mythic may increase my parse but this monster set has a cool function that fits my idea for my character Remember, a 5% damage boost or reduction is practically invisible outside of parsing and your damage is always zero if you're dead, so hitting the damage ceiling is cool but maybe not always what you need. Having fun but minimal damage is better than no fun with moderate/high damage
I think what’s hurting nightblade and sorc isn’t the dps but the lack of cleave. I can parse 95k on my warden and 108k on my stamsorc, but I don’t even bother doing content with my sorc any more. Sorc just feels useless in anything other than single target fights.
The reasons why all classes can be OK at everything but not OK for sweaty end game are these two: 1. There is a class imbalance 2. The game is easy. Reasoning:in a easy game you dont need much power so everything is ok. Power matters ehen you actually need it, when the game hard. It is veteran trials for you.
My issue isn’t that the classes are not perfectly balance: no one expects that when you have different play styles. But how hard is it to get overall dps of all classes within 10% of each other? How hard is it to convert a couple of single target abilities to AOE so that classes such as sorc and nightblade can be competitive with DK and arcanist? I’ve been in trials where arcanist regularly get twice the dps in boss fights despite being at a similar skill level as non arcanists. On a similar note, my heart broke when I saw a long term magsorc dps (who just posted a 110k dps parse) get outdone in content by an oakensorc with far less experience. To reiterate, I don’t expect equality but I do expect fairness. And the current situation is far from fair.
Since I've been collecting skill points for crafting on all my toons I ended up doing a ton of experimenting since some of those skill points I get are from undaunted pledges for dungeons I haven't cleared on the toon. As a result I found that there are things I enjoy in places I did not expect. Nightblade tanking with Arkasis, running like a maniac chugging all the time with Nazaray to nerf an enemy's offensive power into the ground and keep it that way for an eternity. Trying to work around and handle the management of a Magcro DPS with EC (I also use EC on my Magden but it still plays very different). While not as engaging I don't dislike templar DPS as much now. An arcanist Hybrid Tank that uses Coral Riptide and Martial Knowledge but uses the Esoteric Environment Greaves to tank. It's a bit of a minigame of tailoring my recovery to hit the perfect balance. Am looking into what I would want for a healer DK at some point and was thinking of Basalt-Blooded warrior, Jorvuld's Guidance and red CP stars to reach literally +69% damage shields effectiveness (nice). With the new update if I can get to apply Minor/major Vitality, most likely with Ozezan the Inferno/Mender's Ward set, I'd increase that damage shield even more. While some of them may not be ideal, I like to try and find niche or thematic ideas I can execute that some people might overlook in pursuit of other goals.
Arcanists is way too easy for the damage it can dish out imo. Alot of ppl struggled with Trifectas and vbrp until arcanists came out and i don't think thats fair for the other classes
vBRP, dungeon trifectas, and some Trial trifectas were trivialized by Oakensoul well before Arcanist was introduced. Nothing was easier than having infinite sustain, godly survivability, and very good damage while more or less holding down one button. I do agree with your point, but this game's combat team clearly doesn't care about equity between the classes (look at NB in PvE rn - what a joke), and it's yet another reminder that this game shouldn't be taken too seriously.
honestly oakensoul finally made pugs tolerable for me as a tank so its a good thing for me. Most dps were struggling to pull 25-30k and everything took forever to die@@k-3402
@@k-3402 agree arcanist way too boring (and I'm a lovecraft/cthulu/eldritch aesthetic fan) so that's saying something. beam beam beam with some tentacle. forever. even Templar has jab but has to consider DoT's and 2 different rotations. On the opposite end we have the MOST difficulty class to play yet with the least DPS benefit (nightblade) lmao. I think people are not considered about meta - they want rewards for their work and to feel "included". In a game like wow yes there will always be ToP DPS and lowest DPS class but even lowest DPS class are INCLUDED. Nightblade DPS nonexistant! Which is wild.
Of course, Arcanist is really good right now. Releasing a new class that sucks would be much worse for the game than releasing one that is too strong. Over the next couple of patches things will certainly get more even. I just hope they give other classes more of what makes the Arcanist so good instead of just tuning down the Arcanist's damage. Good survivability and amazing AOE potential are something every class should have, because it is fun.
All of them are viable or can be made so - and that's the whole point. Want be into sunlight, dragonish, a gandalf ripoff, at one with nature, sneaky, in touch with the dead, a weird green book jedi? Go ahead. As to meta, the devs will always adjust from the scads of telemetry they scrape and should. It would be really dull if everyone were stomping around Tamriel doing exactly the same thing. As to end game trial setups there are some considerations, but that's real end game stuff. In general though, any class can tank or heal well and dds have pros and cons - which is fine because there are more of them in a group. And the difference is only really that it might take a little longer. So just do what you want to do. Unless you really want to go for top top top level play, groups will happily take a tank or healer even if they're Dung Shoveller class.
I started ESO a month before Vvardenfell, and fell in love with Warden (stamden) for the aesthetic (was a hunter main on WoW for ages). I can't imagine regularly switching characters, and I think it would not be very fun to always chase the meta.
It is after a certain point in the game, as he said, when you are the top x% (i would say 10%).
Lets say you are doing a Hard mode dungeon, arena or trial for the first time: you REALLY notice the diference if your healer actually buffs you, and thats for offensive and defensive buffs. As a support, you REALLY feel the difference if the dps are arcanists and are cleaving all the adds without effort, so the tank doest have to hold them + the boss for 30 seconds. So it really becomes a necessity. Can you do it without the meta? Possibly some of the content, but not all (like trifectas).
So the "can you do it" isnt the appropriate question, since you can probably do many dungeons without a weapon equipped, its just gonna be more painful. Its a matter of wheres the "level of comfort" you are willing to bring to other people on your group. The further you are from the meta, the more someone else will have to do stuff for you (on harder content, like i said above). Its kinda a balance between fun and comfort + consistency.
Of course you should play what is fun to you, but what i mean is, that after a certain point What is good actually becomes whats fun, because the fun is in being the most eficient, not the aesthetics or something like that (they matter ofc, just not the most anymore)
For me when I look at a class to main I always go with class fantasy first then gameplay and then meta is usually a cherry on top but not needed
"Find the class aesthetic that you like."
This is a really good explanation of why I really enjoy Necromancer but don't have fun with Warden. The two classes feel very similar and I found the damage loops similar, but I didn't get very far as a Warden
All classes are viable and with work can be made "good enough" for anything you want to do at any level. That doesn't mean all are fun
That's why I stopped chasing the meta. My threshold for "good enough" allows for a lot of wiggle room. Sure, my non-optimized Necro or NB may only hit 100k rather than 130k, but how often will that 30k matter? Almost never. Sure, this mythic may increase my parse but this monster set has a cool function that fits my idea for my character
Remember, a 5% damage boost or reduction is practically invisible outside of parsing and your damage is always zero if you're dead, so hitting the damage ceiling is cool but maybe not always what you need. Having fun but minimal damage is better than no fun with moderate/high damage
I think what’s hurting nightblade and sorc isn’t the dps but the lack of cleave. I can parse 95k on my warden and 108k on my stamsorc, but I don’t even bother doing content with my sorc any more. Sorc just feels useless in anything other than single target fights.
The reasons why all classes can be OK at everything but not OK for sweaty end game are these two:
1. There is a class imbalance
2. The game is easy.
Reasoning:in a easy game you dont need much power so everything is ok. Power matters ehen you actually need it, when the game hard. It is veteran trials for you.
My issue isn’t that the classes are not perfectly balance: no one expects that when you have different play styles.
But how hard is it to get overall dps of all classes within 10% of each other?
How hard is it to convert a couple of single target abilities to AOE so that classes such as sorc and nightblade can be competitive with DK and arcanist?
I’ve been in trials where arcanist regularly get twice the dps in boss fights despite being at a similar skill level as non arcanists. On a similar note, my heart broke when I saw a long term magsorc dps (who just posted a 110k dps parse) get outdone in content by an oakensorc with far less experience.
To reiterate, I don’t expect equality but I do expect fairness. And the current situation is far from fair.
Since I've been collecting skill points for crafting on all my toons I ended up doing a ton of experimenting since some of those skill points I get are from undaunted pledges for dungeons I haven't cleared on the toon. As a result I found that there are things I enjoy in places I did not expect.
Nightblade tanking with Arkasis, running like a maniac chugging all the time with Nazaray to nerf an enemy's offensive power into the ground and keep it that way for an eternity.
Trying to work around and handle the management of a Magcro DPS with EC (I also use EC on my Magden but it still plays very different).
While not as engaging I don't dislike templar DPS as much now.
An arcanist Hybrid Tank that uses Coral Riptide and Martial Knowledge but uses the Esoteric Environment Greaves to tank. It's a bit of a minigame of tailoring my recovery to hit the perfect balance.
Am looking into what I would want for a healer DK at some point and was thinking of Basalt-Blooded warrior, Jorvuld's Guidance and red CP stars to reach literally +69% damage shields effectiveness (nice). With the new update if I can get to apply Minor/major Vitality, most likely with Ozezan the Inferno/Mender's Ward set, I'd increase that damage shield even more.
While some of them may not be ideal, I like to try and find niche or thematic ideas I can execute that some people might overlook in pursuit of other goals.
Arcanists is way too easy for the damage it can dish out imo. Alot of ppl struggled with Trifectas and vbrp until arcanists came out and i don't think thats fair for the other classes
vBRP, dungeon trifectas, and some Trial trifectas were trivialized by Oakensoul well before Arcanist was introduced. Nothing was easier than having infinite sustain, godly survivability, and very good damage while more or less holding down one button.
I do agree with your point, but this game's combat team clearly doesn't care about equity between the classes (look at NB in PvE rn - what a joke), and it's yet another reminder that this game shouldn't be taken too seriously.
honestly oakensoul finally made pugs tolerable for me as a tank so its a good thing for me. Most dps were struggling to pull 25-30k and everything took forever to die@@k-3402
@@k-3402 agree arcanist way too boring (and I'm a lovecraft/cthulu/eldritch aesthetic fan) so that's saying something. beam beam beam with some tentacle. forever. even Templar has jab but has to consider DoT's and 2 different rotations. On the opposite end we have the MOST difficulty class to play yet with the least DPS benefit (nightblade) lmao. I think people are not considered about meta - they want rewards for their work and to feel "included". In a game like wow yes there will always be ToP DPS and lowest DPS class but even lowest DPS class are INCLUDED. Nightblade DPS nonexistant! Which is wild.
Magblade is my favorite, The look is awesome
Of course, Arcanist is really good right now. Releasing a new class that sucks would be much worse for the game than releasing one that is too strong. Over the next couple of patches things will certainly get more even. I just hope they give other classes more of what makes the Arcanist so good instead of just tuning down the Arcanist's damage. Good survivability and amazing AOE potential are something every class should have, because it is fun.
All of them are viable or can be made so - and that's the whole point. Want be into sunlight, dragonish, a gandalf ripoff, at one with nature, sneaky, in touch with the dead, a weird green book jedi? Go ahead. As to meta, the devs will always adjust from the scads of telemetry they scrape and should. It would be really dull if everyone were stomping around Tamriel doing exactly the same thing. As to end game trial setups there are some considerations, but that's real end game stuff. In general though, any class can tank or heal well and dds have pros and cons - which is fine because there are more of them in a group. And the difference is only really that it might take a little longer. So just do what you want to do. Unless you really want to go for top top top level play, groups will happily take a tank or healer even if they're Dung Shoveller class.
great comment, totally agree!
All of them are viable for all content.
None of them actually, you cannot play the game, it's illegal.
Ooooooof
Hmm
Yeah this game is an Elder Scrolls game first and an MMO second... ALL classes are viable for solo play.