I tasted my first apples this year that I grafted. I learned how to from your videos and would not have even thought to if not for you. Thanks for the amazing gift
@@SkillCult I've come to realize many heirloom apples are terrible. I will probably just try and get scions from your apple breeding project going forward.
I am working on a apple breeding project as well (you are a partial inspiration for it). I have chosen some of the same parents but the breeding project is going in a different direction then your work. This is because fire blight is particular problem in Ontario, so my primary goals are to improve resistance to that disease. I have already found some parents that seem have that trait based on the literature I could find.
great, we definitely need to take those disease resistant genes and use them to make more interesting and diverse apples than big breeders are going to give us.
@@SkillCult If you are interested the current cultivars I am working with are: GoldRush, Golden Harvey, Orleans Reinette, Margil, Sweet 16, Brownlee's Russet and Pitmaston Pineapple.
@@momentomalum1037lso from Ontario here! I am looking to start my own apple breeding project among others. I recently have bought some land near Bancroft that has multiple wild apple trees that have been growing on the abandoned farm with out any maintenance for 30+ years. I am going to be using the best of these as a start for my project to get really locally adapted trees. Im really interested in your apple choices as there is some overlap with my plans but some that are new to me as well! Edit: p.s one of the oldest trees in the area is on the border between mine property and the neighbours and is nearly in full shade as a forest has grown up around it and i believe it is a golden russet! And the parent to many of the younger trees on the property. Despite its horrible conditions its is very healthy as has produced decent amounts of apples. So you certainly would not go wrong with using golden russet it your breeding trials!
@@amberafonso2903 I am considering using Golden Russet after my foundation stock of fireblight resistant strains have been developed. I am currently working getting my hands on the cultivar Pink Princess a pink fleshed apple bred in Ontario in the 70s. With its partial king of the pippins pedigree it may have inherited scab and blight resistance that can be passed onto its progeny.
Best video so far of your sampling! Wow, you have an amazing test plot. Excellent videography as well; nice inserted video from a few weeks back, and the labeling is very clarifying.
One other comment, the tenderness of 'bite me' could be a nice benefit for some people, my mom for example is always scared of losing a tooth biting into an apple and cuts them up, but I know she probably misses being able to bite directly into an apple. There can be unexpected benefits to unusual traits.
This is the first season of new seedlings I started this spring. Granny smith. I have 10 trees from one apple. I enjoyed seeing who did best growing in biochar and grass clippings. A few are 3ft tall.
Really cool stuff man, can't imagine the labor that's gone into this. Very inspiring. I started a home orchard about three years ago and your videos have been a tremendous source of inspiration, guidance, and encouragement. I pruned my neglected trees for the first time this winter, and just ordered my first scion wood from your store. Stoked to dive in, and stoked on your channel! Many thanks and much love from Iowa.
Apple trees, never fail to amaze me! They're midgets, 😂yet they're so productive, as small in height as they are, yet so convenient for people to have, making harvest time easier to reach the tree's apples. Coupla weeks ago, in this central Mexican city that I live in, I saw a street vendor with two Apple seedlings, about 2 feet tall,a mere twig growing upright, and yet each one had a big, shiny red apple hanging from the twig. Thanks for sharing, 👍and greetings👋from Querétaro. 🍎🍏
Yeah, they are amazing. So productive for so little work. My close friend is from central mexico. She comes from a high elevation apple growing area. It would be interesting to try the native varieties down there. I'm sure there are many we never heard of here.
Wow kitchen aid makes one? I have a masticating juicer also I got it pretty reasonably priced on Amazon but I would have loved to have an attachment rather than a whole new appliance to have to store
So many lovely apples. I planted 7 apple trees this year. I hope someday one will grow some apples. I had earlier bought 3 trees from Home Depot and Walmart and I've never gotten an apple from them. I hope my heirloom varieties I put in will do better. I love watching all your beautiful varieties.
It’s been incredible to watch your development of this project over the last six years. I wish you so much success with funding for your next land project!
The tree at 3:22 looks like it is Mg deficient. It can also be caused by an excess of potassium. Just adding a bunch of Mg to counter high K may end up with a Ca deficiency as the three compete with each other. I don't know your soil at all it may be fine for Ca. Dolomite lime will give a good slow release of Mg and Ca, and will effect soil pH a bit.(50lb per 1000sqft is a modest application) Epsom salt is good for Mg and sulfate. SulPoMag is a solid source of Mg and sulfate but has a lot of K so not good for correcting imbalance. Mg nitrate is probably too expensive for soil based crops other than as a folier spray, especially without large scale and supplier access. Wood ashes, kind of like lime but they have a lower fraction of Mg than dolomite and mostly Ca and modest K. Grass/straw ash has a very high fraction of K. Bark ash [ fir anyway] is almost all Ca only a trace of other cations. Mg phosphates are basically totally insoluble on practical time scales, though they may be ok if mixed in before planting so the roots can hang out next to the particles, ion exchange chelation yada yada, nothing that matters to surface application.
Tree at 19:00 might be phosphate defitient. Similar curl can come from environmental stresses or the variety is just prone to it. So less clearly a deficiency than the Mg issue.
Our soils are notoriously high in mag. Mine isn't really excessive, but nothing I've ever added. I used a lot of phosphorus this year, like I was afraid I might be using too much. Since I don't water much, trees can struggle to get what nutrient there is in the soil though. Tree at 10:00 has virus I think.
@@SkillCult Yeah I don't know what to make of 10:00. Most of the other trees look good, I just saw those 2 mentioned above, and if they all got phos then the culy leaves is probably just low water or varietal. However the Mg deficient tree is definitely Mg deficient, the only question is the cause. Options are as you said soil moisture (Was it like that is a year with more rain?) ; Actual lack of Mg in the micro-local soil; pH problem; Being displaced by excess K and Ca(Prior fertilizing or local soil hot spot?); Some root pest/disease issue; Possible the variety or rootstock is just genetically bad at using Mg. My neighbor has an old single asian pear tree with a severe case, no other trees around the neigborhood show notable Mg deficiency, even without irrigation. It's in an irrigated patch of lawn that has had a lot of excess K over the years. Have you ever had soil tests done on that land? (I mean a real test of your specific property correctly sampled, not local folklore from a drunken fella 5 miles over.) It isn't something that I would spend money on regularly, but it's good to have a baseline. If it saves a couple bags of fertilizer or a bunch of guessing over 10 years its worth it.
@@SkillCult I recall an area of southern OR has a lot of dolomitic lime, very high in Mg, does that extend into Calif? Most other areas west of the casades don't have free lime in the soils so aren't particularly high in Mg or Ca.
So could you give a breakdown now after a few years of what % of apples you have grown from seed that are in different categories like inedible-bad-ok-interesting in some ways-good-great? Or whatever categories you feel like using?
It would take some time to put together any kind of useable data. I plan to eventually though, along with all kinds of other data points. My note taking is not awesome. If I ever get a garden and orchard manager like I want to, we can keep a lot better track and extract more information.
@@SkillCult Well thats always how it seems to go its hard to get exact data, but intuitively from following you for some years it seems like there are very few spitters and quite a few end up with unique traits. Some really beautiful apples you have bred, it is always so inspiring for my own breeding efforts to see your trees. i just saved 100 seeds from an apple I really like with very interesting tropical flavors called "xeleven." Also 60 seeds from a red fleshed apple called 'red moon' with interesting flavor and not too much tannin. Both newer varieties (there is an older 'red moon' that is a russian variety and a new one that was just released to Italian/French growers). No idea on what they crossed with but it will be fun to have some wild cards :) Have saved hundreds of seeds of peaches/plums/asian plums/apricots/hybrids/cherries/asian pear/pears/chestnuts/walnuts/hazelnuts etc.etc. as well this year to have some fun and see what happens. Thanks for the inspiration to keep going as always :)
You have inspired us, sir, to grow fruit trees from seeds. Thank you . We go around the area, collecting old farmstead apples and starting them. No results yet, but we want to preserve those genetics that have done well in this area. Last year, I collected a couple quarts of two different kinds of crab apples, from huge trees (at least 30 foot) that were growing at the back of a local empty lot. Have half to a farmer friend. Glad I collected last year, because I went back this year, and the trees were GONE. They put in an Aldi's... I put the whole crab apples into an air prune bed last fall, we got about two dozen seedlings which are about to be heeled in for the winter.
Had my first GOLDEN RUSSET yesterday, extraordinary apple! Very pleased not just with flavor, but with how peel and flesh go together. Grafted tree in second year, so maybe five apples, all very small. Hope it matures to full-sized fruit. Seems to not mind inland San Diego climate, mild winter and blazing summer. Definitely keeping my eyes peeled for SKILLCULT scion-wood to graft this year! Adding Dutch Master to my list.
You got lucky! They say it's about 1 in 300,000 that will give a new sweet variety. I think it's great. We need more varieties. My daughter and I were just talking about trying it for s&g and see what we get. Then i see this video lol. So now I have to.
Usually I hear about 1/5,000 to 1/10,000 Those numbers are actually just for the number it takes to get a commercially viable apple that has to be meet a long list of criteria, like uniformity, a certain look, storability, durability, disease resistance, bearing and growing habits, etc. There is some luck involved, but not in regards to the numbers so much. starting with good parents is the best way to shift the odds in your favor. I'm finding though that some crosses and parents produce more good apples than others. Wickson x rubaiyat have been mostly good, Maypole x Wickson have been mostly not good. But then Maypole is a more primitive apple, so again with picking good parents. Good luck!
I’m always planting seeds from things. I few guilty when I don’t. It’s like I’m not giving them a chance to live. And I figure if I don’t like them. They can always be used as a root stock.
I make them myself and keep track. I've collected hundreds of varieties over the past 17 years, so I've assessed what I do and don't want to use. I do sell seeds every year though, both open pollinated and intentional pollinations. The crosses get more interesting every year as I get to see results and use my own seedlings as parents.
don't freeze them. YOu can keep them in the fridge, fresh, in damp sawdust or someting like that. or dry, then resoak for a day, drain and store in damp sawdust until they sprout, or for a 6 to 8 weeks. they have to go through cold when fresh or soaked though.
@@SkillCult Thanks, I'm in zone 4b / 5a and so we can see cold temps and frost in the ground down to 4ft some winters. I have saved seeds in the fridge in the past but they tend to sprout way before I can plant them out in the Spring. So, If I just let them dry, I can re-hydrate like in Jan-Feb and they may sprout in the fridge? I was thinking of just taking them out when we get an early thaw in the late winter and planting them right in the ground then. I don't have allot of luck planting in pots and then getting them planted out at the right time. I like nature to do what it does best. THX
Love seeing the results of apple trees from seed. Got some seeds off my summer banana and liberty apples and they should be stratified by now in fridge. They seem to do best in my area of NC. They are right next to each other with sweet sixteen not far away. Hopefully get some good apple trees. Seedling I grew from honeycrisp seed just got absolutely mauled and savaged by the climate I'm in. Leaves are sickly looking and most apples rotted on the tree and scorched by sun. Going to cut the whole tree out, possibly graft onto stump, but probably not.
Some mulch, but I never have as much as I want. 'they are 12 inches apart in the row on dwarfing stock (buds9 and M9 mostly) rows are 6 foot apart. I would do that again, but much better if trellised!
Too many factors to say. If it was from good parents, I'll bet it's decent odds. I haven't actually grown any pears from seed yet. Probably similar to apples.
This is my first year of getting some nice apples. I have a question. I have different discovery trees and one of them is very different from the others the trees. The fruit is much better the fruit is a different shape and have a lot of red flesh. Is it because it's an older tree or maybe a different variety?
I'd be super interested in a cider video from you, I've been reading and watching up on the process. Did you ever use a basher and press at all or was it always the juicer? Side note, I found a juicer just like yours cheap on ebay, cleaned it up and made shelf stable apple butter last weekend. The apples I used were old red delicious, Grimes golden and Turley; it tastes amazing but I want to let it sit a while to make sure it keeps.
I really am not good at making cider. about 50% accidentally turns out good and once in a while I get a real gem, but again by accident :) I still have apple butter from the original video that I'm saving. all of it's still good. never had any go bad. I also have some cider syrup that is a couple years old now. never seen any mold on it or anything.
Skillcult, what are your thoughts on using pink Lady, cosmic crisp, and honeycrisp apple seeds to start a home orchard? Any experience or thoughts on this experiment?
Personally, I would use more interesting parents. Pink Lady is pretty good, but you are working with a fairly limited gene pool there. if you want standard trees, starting from seed might be an interesting way to go. The ones that turn out good you can keep and the ones that don't, you just framework graft to better stuff. it will take a long time to come into bearing though. I sell both open pollinated seed and intentional cross pollinated seed if you want some more genetic diversity. Everyone is breeding with honeycrisp and cosmic crisp now and the varieties they are likely to be pollinated with in commercial orchards probably are not all that interesting.
I sell some in the webstore in scion season, about february. The newest ones are put on auction due to limited quantities. If you subscribe to my blog skillcult.com or watch my instagram account, I always announce scion sales.
I noticed my Golden Delicious apples were like that Gold Rush, in that the flavor really improved after storing (either fridge or room temperature) for a couple months. They almost tasted like a pear! And speaking of pears, I planted seeds from what I think was a Seckle pear when I was 18 or 19. The seeds grew two trees, bearing fruit that seemed identical to the fruits I took the seeds from, except they were about half the volume. And part of why they were smaller might have been total neglect... no irrigation or anything. I know I may have gotten lucky, but people act like the world is going to end if you dare grow an apple or other common tree fruit from seed.
Now we do have a few random volunteer apples around our family farm that have hard, sour golfball size fruits. I don't know, but I suspect that their ancestors were more edible apple trees planted over 100 years ago, which reverted to something less desirable over several generations. just my theory.
that probably happens and might part of the reason seedling apples have such a bad reputation. also, just depends on the parents and a lot of heirloom apples are not that great.
Awesome! I’ve often wondered why they say this about apples… I think it should be more like “commercial/industrial scales farmers don’t grow apple from seed” it’s no fault of apples it’s simply a commercial decision. I grew some ‘pink lady’ from seeds for bonsai purposes (starting) 3 years ago. Unfortunately my region isn’t the best for apples, we get a little warm in summer than they like (so I protect them with shade cloth) and we barely get a frost in winter. I actually remove the leaves by hand to induce dormancy. My trees are in pots (regular garden not bonsai yet) and winter just gone (Southern Hemisphere) I moved them from soil to a pumice, pine bark and coco coir mix… they’ve responded amazingly, superb spring growth.
I have other content addressing the commercial breeding and growing paradigm. They do grow apples from seed but the selection and planning process is very narrow and conservative. But there is still a pretty pervasive myth that you;ll almost never get a good apple from seed.
Have a question based on what I was told years ago about apples. This the question is this; Apples only bring up enzymes 2 weeks before they can be picked and then they just fall off in ur hand, then and only then should eat and get the real flavor of the apple because before that they are acidic. .. Is this a fact about the enzyme and acidity?. Thx and cheers
Ther is a conversion of starch to sugar and typically a lowering in acidty with ripeness. But whether they fall off or not is highly variable. some fall off way after ripening, or not at all really, others tend to fall off early. Too much variation to generalize. also, some ripen better off the tree and some on.
I just took a bunch of sprouted seedlings from the fridge of a random apple I got from the store. So of the seeds i just grow them out and try them right?
You could. I prefer to grow seeds from apples I really like or are unique in some way if possible. It takes a really long time to fruit them. Modern genetics can be pretty boring. At least I would say use seeds from an apple you like.
I bought seed from you i think 3 years ago. I murdered all but 1 of the seedlings. That seedling is the only tree that survivied fire blight on my farm. I lost all of my other apples and pears. I would like to buy more seeds from trees. You are always sold out. What time of the year do you post seeds? and do you know any cure for fire blight?
usually in the winter. if you follow my instagram @skillcult, or sub to my blog, I always announce them. I don't deal that much with disease here, because it's so dry. The answer is breeding more resistant apples!
I’m pretty jealous hahaha I’m in the process of turning my property into a food forest, I’ve started to sprout fruit trees from seed to save money and see if I can find anything special. Much love
@@SkillCult same here, I’ve done some breeding with other plants and I chase the unique traits. I like the grenadine traits since they produce the red flesh, I’ve always thought that was interesting. I think I’m kinda close to you, I’m in siskiyou county and the terrain looks very similar.
@@thisguy6817 I do offer seeds in the winter time. Grenadine is a double edged sword. It has that amazing flavor, but some not so great stuff comes with it. I don't think it will take too many generations to weed most of them out though. Rubaiyat is turning out to be an excellent parent too. very red flesh and lots of flavor. Good offspring coming from it, even when the flesh is not red. I also offer pollen of any of my crosses that I think are work breeding, so people like you can start a generation ahead of grenadine etc.
14:57 A working trade name until you get a proper one could be SkillCult Red Pie (pie from the cooking grade nature of it, red from the skin colour, SkillCult from the name of your TH-cam channel)
@@SkillCult I don't know either, though I would GUESS (only a guess) that watercore is more environment-determined than genetic. In my plots it usually happens when heavy rain follows drought, and only in a very few trees. It seems to be worst on trees with shallow roots.
I'm completely hypnotised here ... All my life I never liked apples, except maybe some Pink Lady when those are good, but one day the accident tree that is growing from under a rock at my parents hous produced ONE apple. Damn this one was perfect size and delicious. We are next year from this event, and the tree produced ony 5 small apples, none were picked at the right maturity but while those were with problems tate texture etc was promising. I wish I had the knowledge to prune correctly and take care of this tree so that it produce some good apples next year... Also last year I found a pink lady from the supermarket where all the seeds were starting to germinate inside it, I could not help but plant them, 5/10 gave one foot little trees. What can I expect ?
Fun story. I like to say to people that think they don't like apples, maybe they just haven't met the right ones yet. I do have some videos on training fruit trees. not a lot on pruning yet. You never know what you are going to get from seedlings. If I had to guess I'd say at least 2 or 3 will be worth eating and you might get something special. Pink Lady is a good parent, but you don't know what the other parent is. Where it gets funnest to me is picking both parents, then eventually crossing the offspring with other apples. One of my apples, the pink fleshed Pinker Lady, is a cross of Pink Lady with Rubaiyat, a red fleshed apple. You are not likely to get that by accident.
Yeah, people do that. I think lucy glo is a good bet! Just don't expect the same apple, or all good apples. But that's the fun part, you end up with new stuff.
Pretty much. they do throw a lot of variability, and some are not good and a lot are mediocre. The usual myth though is that only one in thousands is any good. It's weird.
I have at least one Gren x Gold rush variety available this year, Dutch Master, the red russetted one. the others are still under evaluation. Also might have vanilla pink this year actually, it's a gren x gold rush.
Tree collards are under propagation. I still don't now how air layering will go and if I will get it done in time. I cut them back a little bit late. they will be available soon though.
If you have the space and time by all means do it. Just don't turn it into a walking hazard on walking grounds when the fruits turns out not tasting good. Just graft canopy change or cut it down after you find out it's quality. Only good remained going forth.
Nobody said you cannot grow them from seeds. Is the cross-pollination that makes it a hybrid, that's the only issue. They have this specific plants that have specific traits, right? If it cross-pollinates it is a hybrid.
I said they say you can't grow GOOD apples from seed, which is a pervasive myth. Or it is qualified by saying they will rarely come out any good, one in thousands etc. Few apples produce viable seed if any from self pollination. I did bagging tests on probalby 6 to 8 varieties this year to observe the incidence of self pollination and not one fruit set in those controls. So, almost all apple seedlings are what you are referring to as a hybrid. A very small number of varieties will produce fruit almost the same as the parent. 12 years of growing apples from seed on a mission to destroy the don't grow apples from seed thing. Probably 98% intentional "hybrids" in the sense that you use the word. Probably fruited 60 or 70 seedlings by now. Thousands of interactions with people on the subject. Go ahead and school me if you think you need to, but...
@@SkillCult English not my first language and in my country we don't have this myth, therefore, I took it quite literally. Yes, you are right on all of the above, I mostly tried to say the same thing as you, low chance of replicating the same type of apple with self pollination, that's why cloning is the best choice you can go with if you want to keep the same breed.
@@SkillCult Another apple breeder (Nigel Deacon) here - I have attempted to grow seeds from self-pollinated apples on three occasions; 25 seeds of each. Not one seed germinated.
What fraction of seedlings grow into eating-worthy apples? I've seen very varying statistics on the internet, saying that the odds of a good apple is 1:80 or worse.
depends on parentage for sure. I've used a pretty primitive low quality apple for a lot of my crosses, just for the flavor and red flesh, and probably 50% or more are worth eating if you're not super picky. It's much, much better than people say. commonly said to be thousands to one. My project is not that big and I have a bunch of unique apples worth growing and naming. but don't do it to grow apples, do it to create apples. Although, bad seedlings can always be grafted over to better varieties if they don't pan out.
Listening to you talk about apples, randomly searching your links and blogs for a place to buy scions, SO looks over and informs me your probably not ready for that.... He didn't have to ask why I was clicking through all your links, I'm just that predictable ... Soooo, where might one watch for scions when you are ready?????
instagram @skillcult or follow my blog at skillcult.com. the newest and rarest are auctioned off on figbid and can go very high in price. If I have a lot of scions, I put them in the webstore with the other scions. usually feb.
Of course we can grow from seed😊👍 I love growing from seed. I have 6 apple seedlings growing. I think the reason so many apple seeds grow crap apples is due to the orchards using crab apple to pollinate 🤦♀️ which sucks for anyone who wants to grow the seeds. Any seedling with crab apple genes will not be the best imo. But yeah what have we got to lose if we grow from seed? We can always graft onto that tree if it turns out awful. So ppl keep on growing seedlings as long as they are not gmo crap.
Saya tidak mengerti bahasa inggris, Walaupun saya orang indonesia saya suka menonton pemulian apel anda, Berapa tahun apel dari biji yang ditanam bisa menghasilkan buah?
That’s good to know. I was always told Johnny Apple Seed wasted his time because he planted from seed. I’m assuming it’s still better to graft on root stock if possible, no?
Depends on what you want. If you want a specific variety, you have to graft or root a cutting. If you want a new apple, you pretty much have to grow from seed. Very few apples grow the same fruit from seed.
Not the apples, they are all new. Just scions for grafting in the winter. You can watch my instagram account or follow my blog at skillcult.com to find out when I release scions each year. The newest, rarest stuff gets auctioned. If I have a lot of cuttings of one, I'll sell them in the webstore. Usually around february
@@SkillCult Splended, this was a rare treat to watch as I'm going to school for horticulture and I Wanna be a pomologist, as you said lots of people do even know where there apples come from. some of these were true gems, Hope your Winter doesnt get too bad. Godspeed.
Use calcium base Nutrients dont use salt base NPK nutrients, organic is cool letting the tree find it's own Nutrients but some years if the tree doesn't find any food from the good wed/waiting forever for Uber Eats🤭, it will perform bad🤷♂️(no good after waiting all that time = Bad ROI),,,,, I'm a grower here in northern cali and Vegas, we have 20+ cherries trees , 1acres grapes, 1/2acre watermelon, 20+ apples 20-30 Mandarin orange tree, 20+ Tommy Atkins & 20+ cotton candy mangoes, 20+ pomegranate tree, 20+ bananas herb, 20+ papaya tree, 1/2 acre pineapple, 10 acre of hemp all growing in cali on our 70acre land, From my experience of growing organic cannabis/ using dry amendments I've learned calcium based is the best for thicker cell walls tissue, overall health, performance, brix, resistance to pest mold and pathogens etc etc( this is the big secret if you know how to use these things below 🤷♂️) use calcium based nutz( trees and plants take up calcium like a hog calcium helps to chelate protein-based nitrogen, not salt based urea N, accelerating tree and plant growth in a healthy manner), bone meal, kelp, L- amino acids ( very important it's L- amino, foliar feed fish based then switch to feeding soybean based, better ROI ), B vitamins, rock dust, compost tea, Em-1/ homemade preferably, short chain sugars in fruiting season ( nectar from the gods makes a great glucose fructose phosphate combination) to supercharge microbial field so you can get the big fruit, Rock phosphate, crab meal/chitin or insects frass, humic fulvic acid to help chelate nutrients in the medium up the tree roots, and a pinch of azomite, this is how you get what you want out of your field no matter what you grow, when I first became part of the grow project 8 years ago the land was performing poorly using sodium NPK based cheap nutrients, 20-20-20 Jack fertilizer, 20-20-20 grow more, the list goes on and on 🤦♂️ ( not to mention everything tasted like Yuck😝😫🤢🤮 ), the genetics of the plants/trees weren't being complimented or pushed with those cheap nutrients ( my dad was a Horticulture teacher in high school/ school system for over 35 years, he also worked for many farming companies in the field of Organic crops and organic engineering, my dad was a hippie🌈 Mother Earth yada yada🤷♂️🤦♂️, R.I.P Dad ). When growing with salt based nutz the genetics are being fed an American "aint cheap no more" processed carb sugar and salt fast food diet 🤭( no bueno, sickness is coming🤨, pest are coming and the cell walls of the plants/tress are thinner making them vulnerable/ an easy meal, Low brix = easy Meal ), process carbs process this process that, your microbes & plants/trees etc are going to perform the way we perform when eating that junk, not like a gold metal athlete 🏊♀️🏊♂️🏌️♂️🏌️♀️🏃♂️🏃♀️🕺💃, could you imagine bad microbes acting like the government coming in taking what they want when they want🤭, Starship Trooper over running the crib getting the snot kicked out of the good microbes 🤭. 😁 sorry for the long comment you might be already utilizing some of these things but if not might be something to look into( I gave you all the game ) ✌.
I'll have to read this more carefully later, but sounds like good adivce. I only use chem ferts when they are free and have quite a bit of organics right now thanks to donations. but I'm pretty slack and random about fertilization.
@@SkillCult I totally understand, a lot of orchards don't use fertilizers some of them don't even water🤷♂️(no nutz is ok till you deplete all of the things I mentioned in my comment) a lot of people do lab testing but it's no need if you're amending( animal feed store ) Your Land using compost teas, dry amendments like kelp meal alfalfa meal bone meal blood meal azomite rock dust, em-1 ,mycorrhizae you can water in, probiotics you can water in, now you're talking about going from a 87 octane four-cylinder Corolla( which will last for a long time 🤷♂️) to running like a hydrogen fueled Lamborghini v12 with a jet turbo axle/ Pro racing ( made by Toyota when they had the same Engineers that made the 2JZ engine🤭. notice all the car companies always go to Toyota and Yamaha when they have a problem🤭🤣, it's only because they know how to get technical🤷♂️) like when Foliar feeding with kelp its like rocket fuel, you can do it everyday slowly raising concentration level week by week but you have to back it with calcium in the medium between the range of 5.0-6.8p.h, this will make the plant or tree start reproducing on a cellular level so quickly it's like hitting the nitrous button but some people start to notice yellowing because of its the extra need for calcium & food , it needs the extra building blocks/metals/materials to build more structures/ plant matter, if the calcium isn't there you will start to see the signs of deficiencies, this is when bone meal liquid bone meal liquid calcium,,, dropping the pH of your water with phosphoric acid to then bring it back up to 6.3 6.5 with liquid CACO3/calcite/chalk the finest ground Micron you can find and mix it with 5.0 acidic water ( if you mix too much in R.O or distilled water the rest will fall out of suspension I usually add a little phosphoric acid until everything is dissolved then stop!! then I use this calcite/ Olympus up to raise the alkalinity of any water once. I take my water down to 5.0 I bring it back up to 6.5 200ppm of calcium/alkalinity, the extra calcium the plant doesn't use will sit in the medium helping out aeration and also serve as a natural microbial food) calcium also acts something like messenger DNA it will respond to plants cues in accordance with developmental and environmental Stress ( AKA your remedy for the kelp accelerated growth🤷♂️) like I said earlier calcium won't chelate salt base urea nitrogen so you must supplement with protein based nitrogen🤷♂️( better for your land and environment it's like replicating the wild When Animals fall over and die), this way when the plant/tree is rapidly taking up nutz while growing so quickly, the calcium will drag this form of nitrogen up with it ( in a conglomerate with other nutz and trace minerals), again equaling super healthy vibrant organic top notch produce ( L-Amino's/ Left orientated amino acids.. COPY & PASTE The functions of amino acids in plants are near endless and science is constantly discovering more. Here are a few important effects: Increase chlorophyll production" Ron; i would pair this with black strap Molasses and worm casting compost tea, to get magnesium etc as the molasses slowly breaks down in the medium. Provide rich source of organic nitrogen• Stimulate synthesis of vitamins• Ron;This is why I said add B vitamin "Superthrive" • Influence various enzymatic systems • Ron; "help produce chitinase enzymes which eats/dissolves chitiin usually found in Crustaceans and exoskeletons of insects like insect frass etc boosting past resistance •Flowering is stimulated • •Better fruit setting• •Higher nutritional content, size, flavor/terpenes, and coloration of fruits.• •Hgher brix level (quality increase) Increased pest and pathogen resistance• Protein biosynthesis Amino acids are the base structure for proteins. The standard amino acids combine in virtually infinite variations to produce countless different proteins. These proteins are essential to many structural components of plant tissue)... 😁, hope this didn't bore you to death Brotha 🤭, ✌Shalawam
Do they really say that though? I have only ever heard that you can't know wether you will get a good eating apple from seed. All cultivars are from seed hybrids so it seems a pretty weak claim.
It's ridiculous but sadly common. It's very old too. The first major effort at breeding apples intentionally at the turn of the century concluded that it was a myth, but it didn't stick. Some people will state it outright that you will always get bad apples, most state it as one in many thousands will be worth eating. It's changing now though.
Do you have deer problems? I'm in urban area with woods and creek nearby and the deer are terrorizing my apples, white mulberry, and beans and sweet potatoes. I am probably gonna save up for a 8 or 9ft deer fence. Deer are downright disrespectful. They have earned the name wingless locust from me.
My grandmother always said people love deer and squirrels until they grow food. She just used an old haloween prop on a clothes line and moved it ever few weeks. It blew just enough in the wind to spook critters off. Or so she said i dont know how effective it really was. Just felt relevant with all the potential leftover decorations folks might have.
@@4thdimensionalexplorer they have lots of deer spook stuff on market but people always say it stops working after a short while. Last best defense is a high fence from what I understand.
yes for sure. You pretty much have to fence them out some how. you can do individual tree fenching with some old wire if you can find some, but better fence a compound.
you can use fallen apples in many ways, vinegar, cooking and other things. Can't you take away some apples before they develop to prevent them from falling? The apples you keep on the tree should grow better.
@@SkillCult so even by doing this they fall from the tree. This changing climate also make fruits fall early from the tree. It also depend by the rains and water in the soil.
All apple varieties basically are grown from a seed at some point. But the seeds will almost never throw exactly the same apple when planted. So if you get a good one, you clone it, usually by grafting. So, one original Newton Pippin seedling, long dead, the rest are clones.
I haven't really counted, but it depends on what you mean too. is it just worth eating, or is it worth naming and propagating. More than half are perfectly edible. Very few are actual spitters, but a lot are mediocre to not that great. Some crosses are producing a lot more good apples than others as well. Choosing good parents is important.
@@SkillCult do you sell seeds from good parents? I have a friend who is going to plant an orchard and would be nice to get a bunch of seeds or cheap seedlings.
@@jhost0311 Yeah. I sell seeds in the winter. some cross pollinated intentionally where both parents are known. Those usually sell out pretty fast. Others that are just interesting apples from my place as I eat my way through the season.
Well, you can grow good apples from seed but you're not going to get fruit consistency out of seedlings grown from seeds out of the fruits off of the same tree. A lot of varieties come from seedlings that were grown, trialed, and tested.
almost all varieties come from seedlings, with a few weird exceptions. We don't want consistency for breeding, we want variation we have grafting for consistency.
Depends on which they I guess. It's a very common myth that you will almost never get a good apple from seed. At least in America. I've been trying to chip away at that myth for years now and I think it is working. That they will very rarely be true to type is true, although they are often similar. Apples that show now apparent similarity to the parents at all is the exception.
Man I'd love to taste the Muskrat apple. Muskrats might actually taste good. Beaver meat can be amazing. I was helping out a trapper once and as he was skinning a beaver he had me smell the fat just under the skin and it smelled like clean aromatic tree greenness. Not animalic in the slightest. Nature is weird.
It is super weird, but very intriguing. Musky animals can be good to eat if you deal with the musk glands. Never actually eaten muskrat, just joking around.
It might surprise you to know that I know quite a bit about that ater 12 years of doing it lol. But seriously, it is a very common misconception that you cannot, or that those odds are ridiculously high which they are not. I'm on a mission to erode that myth which apparently is working lol.
@@SkillCult I have found (after doing it for 13 years) that for every 100 decent seedlings - counted AFTER you've sieved out the crabs and the thorny seedlings and the ones with bad scab / mildew - you get about 50 of average flavour/texture, about 40 below average in some way (usually too tart or too bitter or powdery texture or tough skin) and about 10% extremely good. It varies of course with the parents you use; most of my crosses use one redfleshed parent. If you cross white x white you'll get fewer below average and a greater number slightly above average but of what use is a 'slightly-above-average' apple? You need something distinct and different to make it worth distributing.
I've never heard that you can't grow good apples from seed... I have heard that you can't grow the same apples that the seed came from. If you want the same variety it needs to be a clone.
I said they say you can't grow GOOD apples from seed, meaning exactly that mythological ratio of thousands to one. 12 years in I have some idea of the absurdity of those numbers and the reality.
I tasted my first apples this year that I grafted. I learned how to from your videos and would not have even thought to if not for you. Thanks for the amazing gift
awesome. It's very gratifying.
@@SkillCult I've come to realize many heirloom apples are terrible. I will probably just try and get scions from your apple breeding project going forward.
I am working on a apple breeding project as well (you are a partial inspiration for it). I have chosen some of the same parents but the breeding project is going in a different direction then your work. This is because fire blight is particular problem in Ontario, so my primary goals are to improve resistance to that disease. I have already found some parents that seem have that trait based on the literature I could find.
great, we definitely need to take those disease resistant genes and use them to make more interesting and diverse apples than big breeders are going to give us.
@@SkillCult If you are interested the current cultivars I am working with are: GoldRush, Golden Harvey, Orleans Reinette, Margil, Sweet 16, Brownlee's Russet and Pitmaston Pineapple.
@@momentomalum1037lso from Ontario here! I am looking to start my own apple breeding project among others. I recently have bought some land near Bancroft that has multiple wild apple trees that have been growing on the abandoned farm with out any maintenance for 30+ years. I am going to be using the best of these as a start for my project to get really locally adapted trees. Im really interested in your apple choices as there is some overlap with my plans but some that are new to me as well!
Edit: p.s one of the oldest trees in the area is on the border between mine property and the neighbours and is nearly in full shade as a forest has grown up around it and i believe it is a golden russet! And the parent to many of the younger trees on the property. Despite its horrible conditions its is very healthy as has produced decent amounts of apples. So you certainly would not go wrong with using golden russet it your breeding trials!
@@amberafonso2903 Keep an eye out for cultivars or wild apples resistant to scab and fire blight. Those are the two big diseases of Ontario,Cheers.
@@amberafonso2903 I am considering using Golden Russet after my foundation stock of fireblight resistant strains have been developed. I am currently working getting my hands on the cultivar Pink Princess a pink fleshed apple bred in Ontario in the 70s. With its partial king of the pippins pedigree it may have inherited scab and blight resistance that can be passed onto its progeny.
Best video so far of your sampling! Wow, you have an amazing test plot. Excellent videography as well; nice inserted video from a few weeks back, and the labeling is very clarifying.
Wasnt even hangry, but you made me go an grab an apple, thanks man...
One other comment, the tenderness of 'bite me' could be a nice benefit for some people, my mom for example is always scared of losing a tooth biting into an apple and cuts them up, but I know she probably misses being able to bite directly into an apple. There can be unexpected benefits to unusual traits.
I've heard that from people before. The obsession with crispness is really an American thing I think. PRDSD post red delicious stress disorder.
Yes..early season transparents are a great softer apple.
Ive noticed older folks love gala. Gala is a soft mealy but sweet apple
The Austrian variety "Kronprinz Rudolf" is crisp and easy to bite. You can buy them in the supermarket here so don't miss it in case you visit.
This is so awesome. Challenge assumptions, maxims, dogmas, orthodoxies, and most importantly examine values! I'd love to try this.
This is the first season of new seedlings I started this spring. Granny smith. I have 10 trees from one apple. I enjoyed seeing who did best growing in biochar and grass clippings. A few are 3ft tall.
Really cool stuff man, can't imagine the labor that's gone into this. Very inspiring. I started a home orchard about three years ago and your videos have been a tremendous source of inspiration, guidance, and encouragement. I pruned my neglected trees for the first time this winter, and just ordered my first scion wood from your store. Stoked to dive in, and stoked on your channel! Many thanks and much love from Iowa.
I always downplay the amount of work in my head, until I'm doing it lol. Then I remember :)
Apple trees, never fail to amaze me! They're midgets, 😂yet they're so productive, as small in height as they are, yet so convenient for people to have, making harvest time easier to reach the tree's apples. Coupla weeks ago, in this central Mexican city that I live in, I saw a street vendor with two Apple seedlings, about 2 feet tall,a mere twig growing upright, and yet each one had a big, shiny red apple hanging from the twig. Thanks for sharing, 👍and greetings👋from Querétaro. 🍎🍏
Yeah, they are amazing. So productive for so little work. My close friend is from central mexico. She comes from a high elevation apple growing area. It would be interesting to try the native varieties down there. I'm sure there are many we never heard of here.
This time of year is my favorite, and your place looks amazing. Im bit north so here already is quite cold
Sooo happy for you!
I have a masticating juicer attachment for a kitchenaid. Works really well and less oxidation. I recommend
Wow kitchen aid makes one? I have a masticating juicer also I got it pretty reasonably priced on Amazon but I would have loved to have an attachment rather than a whole new appliance to have to store
Always cool watching your apple project videos! Inspiring for sure.
So many lovely apples. I planted 7 apple trees this year. I hope someday one will grow some apples. I had earlier bought 3 trees from Home Depot and Walmart and I've never gotten an apple from them. I hope my heirloom varieties I put in will do better. I love watching all your beautiful varieties.
Looking good! I can't wait until the day where I get to try some of my own seedlings.
It’s been incredible to watch your development of this project over the last six years. I wish you so much success with funding for your next land project!
Thanks Evan.
The pink interior color is really pretty
"It's like eating a muskrat" 🤣
The tree at 3:22 looks like it is Mg deficient.
It can also be caused by an excess of potassium. Just adding a bunch of Mg to counter high K may end up with a Ca deficiency as the three compete with each other. I don't know your soil at all it may be fine for Ca. Dolomite lime will give a good slow release of Mg and Ca, and will effect soil pH a bit.(50lb per 1000sqft is a modest application)
Epsom salt is good for Mg and sulfate.
SulPoMag is a solid source of Mg and sulfate but has a lot of K so not good for correcting imbalance.
Mg nitrate is probably too expensive for soil based crops other than as a folier spray, especially without large scale and supplier access.
Wood ashes, kind of like lime but they have a lower fraction of Mg than dolomite and mostly Ca and modest K. Grass/straw ash has a very high fraction of K. Bark ash [ fir anyway] is almost all Ca only a trace of other cations.
Mg phosphates are basically totally insoluble on practical time scales, though they may be ok if mixed in before planting so the roots can hang out next to the particles, ion exchange chelation yada yada, nothing that matters to surface application.
Tree at 19:00 might be phosphate defitient. Similar curl can come from environmental stresses or the variety is just prone to it. So less clearly a deficiency than the Mg issue.
Our soils are notoriously high in mag. Mine isn't really excessive, but nothing I've ever added. I used a lot of phosphorus this year, like I was afraid I might be using too much. Since I don't water much, trees can struggle to get what nutrient there is in the soil though. Tree at 10:00 has virus I think.
@@SkillCult Yeah I don't know what to make of 10:00. Most of the other trees look good, I just saw those 2 mentioned above, and if they all got phos then the culy leaves is probably just low water or varietal.
However the Mg deficient tree is definitely Mg deficient, the only question is the cause.
Options are as you said soil moisture (Was it like that is a year with more rain?) ;
Actual lack of Mg in the micro-local soil;
pH problem;
Being displaced by excess K and Ca(Prior fertilizing or local soil hot spot?);
Some root pest/disease issue;
Possible the variety or rootstock is just genetically bad at using Mg.
My neighbor has an old single asian pear tree with a severe case, no other trees around the neigborhood show notable Mg deficiency, even without irrigation. It's in an irrigated patch of lawn that has had a lot of excess K over the years.
Have you ever had soil tests done on that land? (I mean a real test of your specific property correctly sampled, not local folklore from a drunken fella 5 miles over.) It isn't something that I would spend money on regularly, but it's good to have a baseline. If it saves a couple bags of fertilizer or a bunch of guessing over 10 years its worth it.
@@SkillCult I recall an area of southern OR has a lot of dolomitic lime, very high in Mg, does that extend into Calif?
Most other areas west of the casades don't have free lime in the soils so aren't particularly high in Mg or Ca.
So could you give a breakdown now after a few years of what % of apples you have grown from seed that are in different categories like inedible-bad-ok-interesting in some ways-good-great? Or whatever categories you feel like using?
It would take some time to put together any kind of useable data. I plan to eventually though, along with all kinds of other data points. My note taking is not awesome. If I ever get a garden and orchard manager like I want to, we can keep a lot better track and extract more information.
@@SkillCult Well thats always how it seems to go its hard to get exact data, but intuitively from following you for some years it seems like there are very few spitters and quite a few end up with unique traits. Some really beautiful apples you have bred, it is always so inspiring for my own breeding efforts to see your trees. i just saved 100 seeds from an apple I really like with very interesting tropical flavors called "xeleven." Also 60 seeds from a red fleshed apple called 'red moon' with interesting flavor and not too much tannin. Both newer varieties (there is an older 'red moon' that is a russian variety and a new one that was just released to Italian/French growers). No idea on what they crossed with but it will be fun to have some wild cards :) Have saved hundreds of seeds of peaches/plums/asian plums/apricots/hybrids/cherries/asian pear/pears/chestnuts/walnuts/hazelnuts etc.etc. as well this year to have some fun and see what happens. Thanks for the inspiration to keep going as always :)
You have inspired us, sir, to grow fruit trees from seeds. Thank you .
We go around the area, collecting old farmstead apples and starting them. No results yet, but we want to preserve those genetics that have done well in this area.
Last year, I collected a couple quarts of two different kinds of crab apples, from huge trees (at least 30 foot) that were growing at the back of a local empty lot. Have half to a farmer friend. Glad I collected last year, because I went back this year, and the trees were GONE. They put in an Aldi's...
I put the whole crab apples into an air prune bed last fall, we got about two dozen seedlings which are about to be heeled in for the winter.
good job saving that. Learn to graft if you don't already, then you can save the trees too.
@@SkillCult we are trying to graft, not a lot of success so far. But we keep trying.
Had my first GOLDEN RUSSET yesterday, extraordinary apple! Very pleased not just with flavor, but with how peel and flesh go together. Grafted tree in second year, so maybe five apples, all very small. Hope it matures to full-sized fruit. Seems to not mind inland San Diego climate, mild winter and blazing summer.
Definitely keeping my eyes peeled for SKILLCULT scion-wood to graft this year!
Adding Dutch Master to my list.
Yep, GR is as advertised usually. Hope to use it a lot more in breeding. Love hearing reports from very different climates.
You got lucky! They say it's about 1 in 300,000 that will give a new sweet variety.
I think it's great. We need more varieties. My daughter and I were just talking about trying it for s&g and see what we get. Then i see this video lol. So now I have to.
Usually I hear about 1/5,000 to 1/10,000 Those numbers are actually just for the number it takes to get a commercially viable apple that has to be meet a long list of criteria, like uniformity, a certain look, storability, durability, disease resistance, bearing and growing habits, etc. There is some luck involved, but not in regards to the numbers so much. starting with good parents is the best way to shift the odds in your favor. I'm finding though that some crosses and parents produce more good apples than others. Wickson x rubaiyat have been mostly good, Maypole x Wickson have been mostly not good. But then Maypole is a more primitive apple, so again with picking good parents. Good luck!
I’m always planting seeds from things. I few guilty when I don’t. It’s like I’m not giving them a chance to live. And I figure if I don’t like them. They can always be used as a root stock.
Are those grenandonexgold rush 3011#7planted close to other apple trees?
Yeah, my frankentree with over 100 varieties on it is a stones throw away.
Thanks!
I am trying to get into apple pear and other tree breeding i am doing some grafting but mostly trying to just make my own variety of apple or pear.
I really like the taste test .. vanilla and banana .. sweet and tart , you’re speaking my language . Cheers , awesome orchard
How do you know what the crosses are?
Are you buying seeds work known parents?
*with known parents?
Or just guessing from pollenator tables and closest trees?
I make them myself and keep track. I've collected hundreds of varieties over the past 17 years, so I've assessed what I do and don't want to use. I do sell seeds every year though, both open pollinated and intentional pollinations. The crosses get more interesting every year as I get to see results and use my own seedlings as parents.
Can I save Apple seeds for six months somehow before planting out in the spring. Should I freeze them or dry them and store them cool?
don't freeze them. YOu can keep them in the fridge, fresh, in damp sawdust or someting like that. or dry, then resoak for a day, drain and store in damp sawdust until they sprout, or for a 6 to 8 weeks. they have to go through cold when fresh or soaked though.
Or you can plant and leave outside planted to chill over late winter if it's not insanely cold
@@SkillCult Thanks, I'm in zone 4b / 5a and so we can see cold temps and frost in the ground down to 4ft some winters.
I have saved seeds in the fridge in the past but they tend to sprout way before I can plant them out in the Spring.
So, If I just let them dry, I can re-hydrate like in Jan-Feb and they may sprout in the fridge?
I was thinking of just taking them out when we get an early thaw in the late winter and planting them right in the ground then.
I don't have allot of luck planting in pots and then getting them planted out at the right time.
I like nature to do what it does best.
THX
In the spring, I have found most of the grocery store apples come germinated. I reckon the cold storage can stratifiy the seeds.
Super cool!
Love seeing the results of apple trees from seed. Got some seeds off my summer banana and liberty apples and they should be stratified by now in fridge. They seem to do best in my area of NC. They are right next to each other with sweet sixteen not far away. Hopefully get some good apple trees. Seedling I grew from honeycrisp seed just got absolutely mauled and savaged by the climate I'm in. Leaves are sickly looking and most apples rotted on the tree and scorched by sun. Going to cut the whole tree out, possibly graft onto stump, but probably not.
that honeycrisp is probably on a clonal stock, so you might as well keep the root and have a head start.
So is the BiteMe texture like Ida Red?
Ida Red has red veins inside, you might want to try breeding that into your redflesh apples too.
I don't know that one. It's pretty unique, hard to explain. I don't really have another apple like it.
Do you use mulch? How are away are your trees planted?
Some mulch, but I never have as much as I want. 'they are 12 inches apart in the row on dwarfing stock (buds9 and M9 mostly) rows are 6 foot apart. I would do that again, but much better if trellised!
You can also work onto existing trees.
Have you done any crosses with Lucy glo? As I understand, it's a Honey Crisp/Airlie Red cross? Best apple I've ever found sold in stores.
I haven't even tasted it yet. Heard mostly very good reports though.
Nice video....I have a 4feet tall pear tree I grown from seeds.., what is the probability of it bearing good fruit in the next 5 to 8year
Too many factors to say. If it was from good parents, I'll bet it's decent odds. I haven't actually grown any pears from seed yet. Probably similar to apples.
This is my first year of getting some nice apples. I have a question. I have different discovery trees and one of them is very different from the others the trees. The fruit is much better the fruit is a different shape and have a lot of red flesh. Is it because it's an older tree or maybe a different variety?
Sounds like it was mislabelled most likely.
I'd be super interested in a cider video from you, I've been reading and watching up on the process. Did you ever use a basher and press at all or was it always the juicer?
Side note, I found a juicer just like yours cheap on ebay, cleaned it up and made shelf stable apple butter last weekend. The apples I used were old red delicious, Grimes golden and Turley; it tastes amazing but I want to let it sit a while to make sure it keeps.
I really am not good at making cider. about 50% accidentally turns out good and once in a while I get a real gem, but again by accident :) I still have apple butter from the original video that I'm saving. all of it's still good. never had any go bad. I also have some cider syrup that is a couple years old now. never seen any mold on it or anything.
Skillcult, what are your thoughts on using pink Lady, cosmic crisp, and honeycrisp apple seeds to start a home orchard? Any experience or thoughts on this experiment?
Personally, I would use more interesting parents. Pink Lady is pretty good, but you are working with a fairly limited gene pool there. if you want standard trees, starting from seed might be an interesting way to go. The ones that turn out good you can keep and the ones that don't, you just framework graft to better stuff. it will take a long time to come into bearing though. I sell both open pollinated seed and intentional cross pollinated seed if you want some more genetic diversity. Everyone is breeding with honeycrisp and cosmic crisp now and the varieties they are likely to be pollinated with in commercial orchards probably are not all that interesting.
Do you sell scionwood from your crosses? Poked around your website but didn’t see anything. Interested in red flesh apples like ‘Flaxen’.
I sell some in the webstore in scion season, about february. The newest ones are put on auction due to limited quantities. If you subscribe to my blog skillcult.com or watch my instagram account, I always announce scion sales.
Join his patreon to get early access to his scions.
I noticed my Golden Delicious apples were like that Gold Rush, in that the flavor really improved after storing (either fridge or room temperature) for a couple months. They almost tasted like a pear!
And speaking of pears, I planted seeds from what I think was a Seckle pear when I was 18 or 19. The seeds grew two trees, bearing fruit that seemed identical to the fruits I took the seeds from, except they were about half the volume. And part of why they were smaller might have been total neglect... no irrigation or anything. I know I may have gotten lucky, but people act like the world is going to end if you dare grow an apple or other common tree fruit from seed.
Now we do have a few random volunteer apples around our family farm that have hard, sour golfball size fruits. I don't know, but I suspect that their ancestors were more edible apple trees planted over 100 years ago, which reverted to something less desirable over several generations. just my theory.
that probably happens and might part of the reason seedling apples have such a bad reputation. also, just depends on the parents and a lot of heirloom apples are not that great.
golden delicious is a parent of gold rush, or in the lineage anyway.
Awesome! I’ve often wondered why they say this about apples… I think it should be more like “commercial/industrial scales farmers don’t grow apple from seed” it’s no fault of apples it’s simply a commercial decision.
I grew some ‘pink lady’ from seeds for bonsai purposes (starting) 3 years ago. Unfortunately my region isn’t the best for apples, we get a little warm in summer than they like (so I protect them with shade cloth) and we barely get a frost in winter. I actually remove the leaves by hand to induce dormancy. My trees are in pots (regular garden not bonsai yet) and winter just gone (Southern Hemisphere) I moved them from soil to a pumice, pine bark and coco coir mix… they’ve responded amazingly, superb spring growth.
I have other content addressing the commercial breeding and growing paradigm. They do grow apples from seed but the selection and planning process is very narrow and conservative. But there is still a pretty pervasive myth that you;ll almost never get a good apple from seed.
If you leave the leaves on, do they (try to) flush out in winter? Or do they just fail to produce next season?
Do you sell scion wood? If so do you have a website you work through?
Check replies above in the commenss. Have answered tht a bunch of times just now :)
Have a question based on what I was told years ago about apples. This the question is this; Apples only bring up enzymes 2 weeks before they can be picked and then they just fall off in ur hand, then and only then should eat and get the real flavor of the apple because before that they are acidic. .. Is this a fact about the enzyme and acidity?. Thx and cheers
Ther is a conversion of starch to sugar and typically a lowering in acidty with ripeness. But whether they fall off or not is highly variable. some fall off way after ripening, or not at all really, others tend to fall off early. Too much variation to generalize. also, some ripen better off the tree and some on.
Is your orchard fenced? How do you keep bears and deer away?
bears electric fence, deer just fencing. You prettymuch have to fence deer out somehow to start an orchard until trees are tall and trained high.
I just took a bunch of sprouted seedlings from the fridge of a random apple I got from the store. So of the seeds i just grow them out and try them right?
You could. I prefer to grow seeds from apples I really like or are unique in some way if possible. It takes a really long time to fruit them. Modern genetics can be pretty boring. At least I would say use seeds from an apple you like.
@@SkillCult thanks very new to this and just got 20 acres of very boring farm land so trying to full it up.
hang on, how long has it taken to grow from seed to bearing fruit? that would be years wouldnt it?
I've been at it about 12 years. earliest I've seen any bear is year 4, but usually more like 5 to 8. some have not fruited in 10 years.
@@SkillCult thats so cool! thanks for the reply, the pink flesh looking apples were my fave they looked awesome! keep up the awesome work!
I bought seed from you i think 3 years ago. I murdered all but 1 of the seedlings. That seedling is the only tree that survivied fire blight on my farm. I lost all of my other apples and pears. I would like to buy more seeds from trees. You are always sold out. What time of the year do you post seeds? and do you know any cure for fire blight?
usually in the winter. if you follow my instagram @skillcult, or sub to my blog, I always announce them. I don't deal that much with disease here, because it's so dry. The answer is breeding more resistant apples!
What causes the waxy/ greasy thing to happen?
I don't know the physiology of that. I'm sure the info is out there though.
I’m pretty jealous hahaha I’m in the process of turning my property into a food forest, I’ve started to sprout fruit trees from seed to save money and see if I can find anything special. Much love
cool man. Just using seeds from good fruits really does a lot to shift things in our favor. There is always grafting too.
@@SkillCult is it worth a try to sprout seeds from store bought apples? Or should I stick to local orchard fruit seeds?
@@thisguy6817 Sure, if you really like the apple. What interests me the most is unique traits, so I use really interesting apples to cross together.
@@SkillCult same here, I’ve done some breeding with other plants and I chase the unique traits. I like the grenadine traits since they produce the red flesh, I’ve always thought that was interesting. I think I’m kinda close to you, I’m in siskiyou county and the terrain looks very similar.
@@thisguy6817 I do offer seeds in the winter time. Grenadine is a double edged sword. It has that amazing flavor, but some not so great stuff comes with it. I don't think it will take too many generations to weed most of them out though. Rubaiyat is turning out to be an excellent parent too. very red flesh and lots of flavor. Good offspring coming from it, even when the flesh is not red. I also offer pollen of any of my crosses that I think are work breeding, so people like you can start a generation ahead of grenadine etc.
14:57 A working trade name until you get a proper one could be SkillCult Red Pie (pie from the cooking grade nature of it, red from the skin colour, SkillCult from the name of your TH-cam channel)
thanks. I'm probably going to go with something basic, like December Kitchen.
If I grafted onto a watercore tree, will the graft become the same?
I don't know, good question though. Usually they outgrow it after a while.
@@SkillCult I don't know either, though I would GUESS (only a guess) that watercore is more environment-determined than genetic. In my plots it usually happens when heavy rain follows drought, and only in a very few trees. It seems to be worst on trees with shallow roots.
I'm completely hypnotised here ... All my life I never liked apples, except maybe some Pink Lady when those are good, but one day the accident tree that is growing from under a rock at my parents hous produced ONE apple. Damn this one was perfect size and delicious. We are next year from this event, and the tree produced ony 5 small apples, none were picked at the right maturity but while those were with problems tate texture etc was promising. I wish I had the knowledge to prune correctly and take care of this tree so that it produce some good apples next year... Also last year I found a pink lady from the supermarket where all the seeds were starting to germinate inside it, I could not help but plant them, 5/10 gave one foot little trees. What can I expect ?
Fun story. I like to say to people that think they don't like apples, maybe they just haven't met the right ones yet. I do have some videos on training fruit trees. not a lot on pruning yet. You never know what you are going to get from seedlings. If I had to guess I'd say at least 2 or 3 will be worth eating and you might get something special. Pink Lady is a good parent, but you don't know what the other parent is. Where it gets funnest to me is picking both parents, then eventually crossing the offspring with other apples. One of my apples, the pink fleshed Pinker Lady, is a cross of Pink Lady with Rubaiyat, a red fleshed apple. You are not likely to get that by accident.
I would love for you to make some “hard candy cider”!
I'm not very good at making cider. I'm hoping someone else does it soon :)
Has anyone tried growing grocery apples to see what comes? Trying to sample growing a few seeds from Lucy Rose
Yeah, people do that. I think lucy glo is a good bet! Just don't expect the same apple, or all good apples. But that's the fun part, you end up with new stuff.
I’ve never understood that take. Didn’t they all come from seed at some point?
Pretty much. they do throw a lot of variability, and some are not good and a lot are mediocre. The usual myth though is that only one in thousands is any good. It's weird.
How long does apple trees from seeds take to fruit?
fast ones about 5 years, most longer, some over 10 years.
Hey, do you sell Grenadine x Gold Rush scions. Also want to buy peasant king cations or seeds ?
I meant to say scions or seeds for peasant king collards.
#20
I have at least one Gren x Gold rush variety available this year, Dutch Master, the red russetted one. the others are still under evaluation. Also might have vanilla pink this year actually, it's a gren x gold rush.
Tree collards are under propagation. I still don't now how air layering will go and if I will get it done in time. I cut them back a little bit late. they will be available soon though.
If you have the space and time by all means do it. Just don't turn it into a walking hazard on walking grounds when the fruits turns out not tasting good. Just graft canopy change or cut it down after you find out it's quality. Only good remained going forth.
Nobody said you cannot grow them from seeds. Is the cross-pollination that makes it a hybrid, that's the only issue. They have this specific plants that have specific traits, right? If it cross-pollinates it is a hybrid.
I said they say you can't grow GOOD apples from seed, which is a pervasive myth. Or it is qualified by saying they will rarely come out any good, one in thousands etc. Few apples produce viable seed if any from self pollination. I did bagging tests on probalby 6 to 8 varieties this year to observe the incidence of self pollination and not one fruit set in those controls. So, almost all apple seedlings are what you are referring to as a hybrid. A very small number of varieties will produce fruit almost the same as the parent. 12 years of growing apples from seed on a mission to destroy the don't grow apples from seed thing. Probably 98% intentional "hybrids" in the sense that you use the word. Probably fruited 60 or 70 seedlings by now. Thousands of interactions with people on the subject. Go ahead and school me if you think you need to, but...
@@SkillCult English not my first language and in my country we don't have this myth, therefore, I took it quite literally. Yes, you are right on all of the above, I mostly tried to say the same thing as you, low chance of replicating the same type of apple with self pollination, that's why cloning is the best choice you can go with if you want to keep the same breed.
@@SkillCult Another apple breeder (Nigel Deacon) here - I have attempted to grow seeds from self-pollinated apples on three occasions; 25 seeds of each. Not one seed germinated.
would love to propagate a soft tasty apple tree. Won't mind lacking that crispness but would appreciate "some" crisp if possible.
What fraction of seedlings grow into eating-worthy apples? I've seen very varying statistics on the internet, saying that the odds of a good apple is 1:80 or worse.
depends on parentage for sure. I've used a pretty primitive low quality apple for a lot of my crosses, just for the flavor and red flesh, and probably 50% or more are worth eating if you're not super picky. It's much, much better than people say. commonly said to be thousands to one. My project is not that big and I have a bunch of unique apples worth growing and naming. but don't do it to grow apples, do it to create apples. Although, bad seedlings can always be grafted over to better varieties if they don't pan out.
Listening to you talk about apples, randomly searching your links and blogs for a place to buy scions, SO looks over and informs me your probably not ready for that.... He didn't have to ask why I was clicking through all your links, I'm just that predictable ... Soooo, where might one watch for scions when you are ready?????
instagram @skillcult or follow my blog at skillcult.com. the newest and rarest are auctioned off on figbid and can go very high in price. If I have a lot of scions, I put them in the webstore with the other scions. usually feb.
@@SkillCult Thanks! I saved the link!
Of course we can grow from seed😊👍
I love growing from seed. I have 6 apple seedlings growing. I think the reason so many apple seeds grow crap apples is due to the orchards using crab apple to pollinate 🤦♀️ which sucks for anyone who wants to grow the seeds. Any seedling with crab apple genes will not be the best imo. But yeah what have we got to lose if we grow from seed? We can always graft onto that tree if it turns out awful. So ppl keep on growing seedlings as long as they are not gmo crap.
Saya tidak mengerti bahasa inggris,
Walaupun saya orang indonesia saya suka menonton pemulian apel anda,
Berapa tahun apel dari biji yang ditanam bisa menghasilkan buah?
That’s good to know. I was always told Johnny Apple Seed wasted his time because he planted from seed. I’m assuming it’s still better to graft on root stock if possible, no?
Depends on what you want. If you want a specific variety, you have to graft or root a cutting. If you want a new apple, you pretty much have to grow from seed. Very few apples grow the same fruit from seed.
Yuo. He was an Applejacker for sure.
@Nooneinparticular987 Based on what information?
do you sell these?
Not the apples, they are all new. Just scions for grafting in the winter. You can watch my instagram account or follow my blog at skillcult.com to find out when I release scions each year. The newest, rarest stuff gets auctioned. If I have a lot of cuttings of one, I'll sell them in the webstore. Usually around february
@@SkillCult Splended, this was a rare treat to watch as I'm going to school for horticulture and I Wanna be a pomologist, as you said lots of people do even know where there apples come from. some of these were true gems, Hope your Winter doesnt get too bad. Godspeed.
I need a supercut of all the bites taken in this video
How many apples do you eat during filming lol
too many lol. But I don't eat very many all the way and I spit out most of the pulp. I just edit out most of the spitting.
Use calcium base Nutrients dont use salt base NPK nutrients, organic is cool letting the tree find it's own Nutrients but some years if the tree doesn't find any food from the good wed/waiting forever for Uber Eats🤭, it will perform bad🤷♂️(no good after waiting all that time = Bad ROI),,,,,
I'm a grower here in northern cali and Vegas, we have 20+ cherries trees , 1acres grapes, 1/2acre watermelon, 20+ apples 20-30 Mandarin orange tree, 20+ Tommy Atkins & 20+ cotton candy mangoes, 20+ pomegranate tree, 20+ bananas herb, 20+ papaya tree, 1/2 acre pineapple, 10 acre of hemp all growing in cali on our 70acre land,
From my experience of growing organic cannabis/ using dry amendments I've learned calcium based is the best for thicker cell walls tissue, overall health, performance, brix, resistance to pest mold and pathogens etc etc( this is the big secret if you know how to use these things below 🤷♂️) use calcium based nutz( trees and plants take up calcium like a hog calcium helps to chelate protein-based nitrogen, not salt based urea N, accelerating tree and plant growth in a healthy manner), bone meal, kelp, L- amino acids ( very important it's L- amino, foliar feed fish based then switch to feeding soybean based, better ROI ), B vitamins, rock dust, compost tea, Em-1/ homemade preferably, short chain sugars in fruiting season ( nectar from the gods makes a great glucose fructose phosphate combination) to supercharge microbial field so you can get the big fruit, Rock phosphate, crab meal/chitin or insects frass, humic fulvic acid to help chelate nutrients in the medium up the tree roots, and a pinch of azomite, this is how you get what you want out of your field no matter what you grow, when I first became part of the grow project 8 years ago the land was performing poorly using sodium NPK based cheap nutrients, 20-20-20 Jack fertilizer, 20-20-20 grow more, the list goes on and on 🤦♂️ ( not to mention everything tasted like Yuck😝😫🤢🤮 ), the genetics of the plants/trees weren't being complimented or pushed with those cheap nutrients ( my dad was a Horticulture teacher in high school/ school system for over 35 years, he also worked for many farming companies in the field of Organic crops and organic engineering, my dad was a hippie🌈 Mother Earth yada yada🤷♂️🤦♂️, R.I.P Dad ). When growing with salt based nutz the genetics are being fed an American "aint cheap no more" processed carb sugar and salt fast food diet 🤭( no bueno, sickness is coming🤨, pest are coming and the cell walls of the plants/tress are thinner making them vulnerable/ an easy meal, Low brix = easy Meal ), process carbs process this process that, your microbes & plants/trees etc are going to perform the way we perform when eating that junk, not like a gold metal athlete 🏊♀️🏊♂️🏌️♂️🏌️♀️🏃♂️🏃♀️🕺💃, could you imagine bad microbes acting like the government coming in taking what they want when they want🤭, Starship Trooper over running the crib getting the snot kicked out of the good microbes 🤭.
😁 sorry for the long comment you might be already utilizing some of these things but if not might be something to look into( I gave you all the game ) ✌.
I'll have to read this more carefully later, but sounds like good adivce. I only use chem ferts when they are free and have quite a bit of organics right now thanks to donations. but I'm pretty slack and random about fertilization.
@@SkillCult I totally understand, a lot of orchards don't use fertilizers some of them don't even water🤷♂️(no nutz is ok till you deplete all of the things I mentioned in my comment) a lot of people do lab testing but it's no need if you're amending( animal feed store ) Your Land using compost teas, dry amendments like kelp meal alfalfa meal bone meal blood meal azomite rock dust, em-1 ,mycorrhizae you can water in, probiotics you can water in, now you're talking about going from a 87 octane four-cylinder Corolla( which will last for a long time 🤷♂️) to running like a hydrogen fueled Lamborghini v12 with a jet turbo axle/ Pro racing ( made by Toyota when they had the same Engineers that made the 2JZ engine🤭. notice all the car companies always go to Toyota and Yamaha when they have a problem🤭🤣, it's only because they know how to get technical🤷♂️) like when Foliar feeding with kelp its like rocket fuel, you can do it everyday slowly raising concentration level week by week but you have to back it with calcium in the medium between the range of 5.0-6.8p.h, this will make the plant or tree start reproducing on a cellular level so quickly it's like hitting the nitrous button but some people start to notice yellowing because of its the extra need for calcium & food , it needs the extra building blocks/metals/materials to build more structures/ plant matter, if the calcium isn't there you will start to see the signs of deficiencies, this is when bone meal liquid bone meal liquid calcium,,, dropping the pH of your water with phosphoric acid to then bring it back up to 6.3 6.5 with liquid CACO3/calcite/chalk the finest ground Micron you can find and mix it with 5.0 acidic water ( if you mix too much in R.O or distilled water the rest will fall out of suspension I usually add a little phosphoric acid until everything is dissolved then stop!! then I use this calcite/ Olympus up to raise the alkalinity of any water once. I take my water down to 5.0 I bring it back up to 6.5 200ppm of calcium/alkalinity, the extra calcium the plant doesn't use will sit in the medium helping out aeration and also serve as a natural microbial food) calcium also acts something like messenger DNA it will respond to plants cues in accordance with developmental and environmental Stress ( AKA your remedy for the kelp accelerated growth🤷♂️) like I said earlier calcium won't chelate salt base urea nitrogen so you must supplement with protein based nitrogen🤷♂️( better for your land and environment it's like replicating the wild When Animals fall over and die), this way when the plant/tree is rapidly taking up nutz while growing so quickly, the calcium will drag this form of nitrogen up with it ( in a conglomerate with other nutz and trace minerals), again equaling super healthy vibrant organic top notch produce ( L-Amino's/ Left orientated amino acids.. COPY & PASTE
The functions of amino acids in plants are near endless and science is constantly discovering more. Here are a few important effects:
Increase chlorophyll production"
Ron; i would pair this with black strap Molasses and worm casting compost tea, to get magnesium etc as the molasses slowly breaks down in the medium.
Provide rich source of organic nitrogen•
Stimulate synthesis of vitamins•
Ron;This is why I said add B vitamin "Superthrive"
• Influence various enzymatic systems •
Ron; "help produce chitinase enzymes which eats/dissolves chitiin usually found in Crustaceans and exoskeletons of insects like insect frass etc boosting past resistance
•Flowering is stimulated •
•Better fruit setting•
•Higher nutritional content, size, flavor/terpenes, and coloration of fruits.•
•Hgher brix level (quality increase)
Increased pest and pathogen resistance•
Protein biosynthesis
Amino acids are the base structure for proteins. The standard amino acids combine in virtually infinite variations to produce countless different proteins. These proteins are essential to many structural components of plant tissue)...
😁, hope this didn't bore you to death Brotha 🤭, ✌Shalawam
Doctors hate this man
Do they really say that though? I have only ever heard that you can't know wether you will get a good eating apple from seed. All cultivars are from seed hybrids so it seems a pretty weak claim.
It's ridiculous but sadly common. It's very old too. The first major effort at breeding apples intentionally at the turn of the century concluded that it was a myth, but it didn't stick. Some people will state it outright that you will always get bad apples, most state it as one in many thousands will be worth eating. It's changing now though.
Do you have deer problems? I'm in urban area with woods and creek nearby and the deer are terrorizing my apples, white mulberry, and beans and sweet potatoes. I am probably gonna save up for a 8 or 9ft deer fence. Deer are downright disrespectful. They have earned the name wingless locust from me.
My grandmother always said people love deer and squirrels until they grow food. She just used an old haloween prop on a clothes line and moved it ever few weeks. It blew just enough in the wind to spook critters off. Or so she said i dont know how effective it really was. Just felt relevant with all the potential leftover decorations folks might have.
@@4thdimensionalexplorer they have lots of deer spook stuff on market but people always say it stops working after a short while. Last best defense is a high fence from what I understand.
Try spraying something on your crops like acorn sulution for deer or chilli solution for the rodents.
yes for sure. You pretty much have to fence them out some how. you can do individual tree fenching with some old wire if you can find some, but better fence a compound.
you can use fallen apples in many ways, vinegar, cooking and other things.
Can't you take away some apples before they develop to prevent them from falling? The apples you keep on the tree should grow better.
Yes, thinning is important. I thin every year. but when the apples are very small.
@@SkillCult so even by doing this they fall from the tree. This changing climate also make fruits fall early from the tree.
It also depend by the rains and water in the soil.
I miss eating apples. Can't eat them anymore since I lost all my teeth
Don't all apples grow from a seed though?
When a good variety is established and bred for they usually propagate them. Apples genetics are complex.
All apple varieties basically are grown from a seed at some point. But the seeds will almost never throw exactly the same apple when planted. So if you get a good one, you clone it, usually by grafting. So, one original Newton Pippin seedling, long dead, the rest are clones.
So what percentage of your seedling apples are good?
I haven't really counted, but it depends on what you mean too. is it just worth eating, or is it worth naming and propagating. More than half are perfectly edible. Very few are actual spitters, but a lot are mediocre to not that great. Some crosses are producing a lot more good apples than others as well. Choosing good parents is important.
@@SkillCult do you sell seeds from good parents? I have a friend who is going to plant an orchard and would be nice to get a bunch of seeds or cheap seedlings.
@@jhost0311 Yeah. I sell seeds in the winter. some cross pollinated intentionally where both parents are known. Those usually sell out pretty fast. Others that are just interesting apples from my place as I eat my way through the season.
This man has never seen a doctor in his life, when he goes to the hospital they shut down. Doctors fear him like death. He will live to be 158.
ha ha, I wish.
Well, you can grow good apples from seed but you're not going to get fruit consistency out of seedlings grown from seeds out of the fruits off of the same tree. A lot of varieties come from seedlings that were grown, trialed, and tested.
almost all varieties come from seedlings, with a few weird exceptions. We don't want consistency for breeding, we want variation we have grafting for consistency.
👍🏻👍👍🏾👍🏿👍🏽
they said it wouldnt be true to type....
Depends on which they I guess. It's a very common myth that you will almost never get a good apple from seed. At least in America. I've been trying to chip away at that myth for years now and I think it is working. That they will very rarely be true to type is true, although they are often similar. Apples that show now apparent similarity to the parents at all is the exception.
Man I'd love to taste the Muskrat apple. Muskrats might actually taste good. Beaver meat can be amazing. I was helping out a trapper once and as he was skinning a beaver he had me smell the fat just under the skin and it smelled like clean aromatic tree greenness. Not animalic in the slightest. Nature is weird.
musk rats are food in parts of the world. here in Belgium you won't find it anymore but it was known as water rabbit.
It is super weird, but very intriguing. Musky animals can be good to eat if you deal with the musk glands. Never actually eaten muskrat, just joking around.
You should name the musk-y apples after Elon.
Yeah, not really a fan lol. The guy is a genius, but out of touch with reality.
its not that you cant grow good apples from seed LOL , its just that the odds are against you LOL
It might surprise you to know that I know quite a bit about that ater 12 years of doing it lol. But seriously, it is a very common misconception that you cannot, or that those odds are ridiculously high which they are not. I'm on a mission to erode that myth which apparently is working lol.
@@SkillCult I have found (after doing it for 13 years) that for every 100 decent seedlings - counted AFTER you've sieved out the crabs and the thorny seedlings and the ones with bad scab / mildew - you get about 50 of average flavour/texture, about 40 below average in some way (usually too tart or too bitter or powdery texture or tough skin) and about 10% extremely good. It varies of course with the parents you use; most of my crosses use one redfleshed parent. If you cross white x white you'll get fewer below average and a greater number slightly above average but of what use is a 'slightly-above-average' apple? You need something distinct and different to make it worth distributing.
So you like playing genetic roulette and making cider.
genetic roulette, hell yeah, cider making, not so much.
You won't get proper apples from the parent tree unless you grow from cutting or root
You won't gert the same apple, but you might get a good apple or even a better apple. depends on your goals.
I mean, just call it a tasting video!!
?
I've never heard that you can't grow good apples from seed... I have heard that you can't grow the same apples that the seed came from.
If you want the same variety it needs to be a clone.
That's good, maybe we're making progress.
It not that you can't but you might get something gross
They also say money do grow on trees. lol BULLSHIT
I do not envy your toilet bowl after days like these where you probably eat a year's worth of apples in a day.
I don't swallow much of the pulp at all and I rarely finish an apple, so not usually a problem.
No one says you can't grow apples from seed they say that it's a 1 in 10,000 chance of that Apple being worth it.
I said they say you can't grow GOOD apples from seed, meaning exactly that mythological ratio of thousands to one. 12 years in I have some idea of the absurdity of those numbers and the reality.
I really want an apple now.