Nic a new'ish viewer responding to your video ... there are a couple of issues with what you are trying to achieve, and as a result, you are probably going to kill any battery chargers you buy. 1) BOTH DC Power sources need (generator and external charger) a blocking diode in series with both sources. This will prevent power from either source backfeeding to the other source and causing the voltage regulation to not work correctly, and potentially could damage the DC output and regulation circuits of one or both sources. 2) A diode should block electron flow in one direction regardless of voltage or current levels. A diode designed for huge current flow will often exhibit a bit more backflow leakage than a small signal diode, BUT, regardless whether the diode is rated for 1 amp or 1000 amps the reverse current flow should be very, very low. When I saw your test of the diode reverse flow in your video, there was clearly something a miss. However the more reliable test method, would be to lift one side of the diode ( preferably from the battery end, and test with everything shutdown using a volt-ohm meter. Resistance in one direction should be almost nothing, resistance in the opposite direction should be very high. If that is in fact not the case, then the diode is damaged and not blocking as it should and needs to be replaced. If you need additional assistance, please email me at: rcrask@awti.info. if you want to talk via phone about this issue or any other, please email me and I will send my cell/sms number. Best to you in your efforts. ~Dr. Raymond C. Rask~
The bell is rated to run at only 0.030 A which it was not running happily in the test so definitely not much current. My question I have is why would the external charger need a diode when the generator already has one to prevent it from charging the battery.
I don't think there was a problem with your changer (until you dropped it :D). A lead cell battery requires 14.5 to 14.9 Volts to bulk-charge. Please remember that a lead acid battery of "12 Volts" is composed of 6 cells is series with each 2.2 Volts nominal tension, which equals 13.2 Volts in total. So your 12 Volts battery is actually a 13.2 Volts battery. The bulk-charge is required every time the battery started the genset. A decent charger should go from constant current (while voltage can be as high as 14.9 Volt) to constant voltage when the voltage drops to 13.3 Volts. This is pretty much the standby voltage that can be permanent on the battery. Please measure the current during bulk charge. It should not exceed ¼ of the 'Ah' rating. The charger does not know the Ah-rating of the battery, so you should buy a charger that is adapted to the Ah-rating. For example: if the battery is 12 Volts - 9 Ah, then the charger should not be able to output a current higher than 1/4th of 9 Ah = 2.2 Amps. A 2 Amps charger would be perfect in this case.
I disagree. I do not feel comfortable with the battery charger charging in excess of 16 V when none of the other ones get that high it doesn't seem right.
@@nics-systems-electric I agree, Your average car Alternator outputs max 14.4v if its a really good alternator (Most more cheepo once are 13.8), if it only went to like 14.6 id let it slide but 16 let alone 16.5 thats way to high, i can agree with thomas on the Nominal cell charge so it would be more like a 13v battery since a good new battery would usualy lay at 12.6-12.8v ish, but 16v is still to high in my opinion
@@nics-systems-electric I would check out the Victron Bluepower chargers, fully configurable through a bluetooth app and i use them for my cars. I have the 4amp and 30amp version.
Not related to the generator but I think it would be cool to put a blue building indicator strobe on the outside of the house and a beam smoke detector in the attic. Maybe some horn strobes In the attic as well.
Hey Nic, it seems the charger is either faulty or something is wrong with the excessive run times causing the overcharging of the battery. Typically, these lead cell batteries sit around 12.2-12.6 volts as it's the standby voltage. 16 volts is much too high for any typical ead cell battery as it could cause damage to the battery or even worse, catch fire in some cases. An idea I had come to mind was to use an alternator with a voltage regulator so that as the generator is running, it charges the battery but limits the voltage to 13.6-14.6 volts if its a good alternator.
@nics-systems-electric I kinda figured that considering the high voltages resulting from it. I would suggest getting an alternator from a junkyard vehicle or something and using that as a charger of some sort. Another idea I had sparked up in my mind was to get a battery charger that regulates battery voltage between the range of 13.6 volts and 14.6 volts which is perfect for a car that's running. I would use a voltage regulator for this purpose as it should do the job, or if you have the money for one, I would get a Military Surplus Diesel generator as a substitute for your current generator. Yes, these Military Surplus' can supply 120/208v AC current to any building and is enough to power an entire house. These generators also have electric start which is good for your current set up, but work differently as there's a prime stage for these generators so they get fuel. If you could possibly incorporate that into your current setup then I would recommend getting one of those generators as they already have an alternator built in to recharge the batteries, I will warn you, these MSDGs have two batteries, not one as your current setup has which is probably what you're used to. Edit: I really did actually take about 30 minutes to type out this entire paragraph of text.
@nics-systems-electric The reason why the generator keeps charging the battery and it reaches 16 volts is because you don't have anything to monitor the battery voltage and tell the charger to turn off once the battery hits a certain voltage and turn on once the battery drops below a certain voltage, you need what's called a voltage regulator and connect the leads from the charger to the input of the voltage regulator and the alligator clips going to the battery on the output. TLDR: You need a voltage regulator and run the charger output through the input of the regulator and use that to charge the battery.
You shouldn't require that at all the generator's charging system is supposed to maintain a specific voltage and not exceeded same with external charger.
The only thing with backup power is my security system (aka simply safe) so all I hear when the power is out is “Warning power outage base station on Battery backup”
There are schematics available from the transfer switch as far as what I've added I do not have a schematic. I'm sure someone could put one together through watching my videos as everything is documented.
I've had good results with the NOCO's. Though I did have one of the small 1 amp ones die and warranty replaced, died and wouldn't turn on. And my original one finally bit the dust I think due to capacitor issues. Otherwise they have been solid chargers. I am mediately noticed a difference when I switched to them way back when and even managed to recover a battery that I thought was totally dead. Oh and the clamps on the NOCO can be unscrewed to give you battery terminals, This was a clever design change that they made to give you clamps and rings. I encountered one battery charger that apparently worked very good and was at a good price that somebody was telling me about and the guy where I worked bought it, as soon as I got my hands on it I said this is awfully lightweight. Boy was that thing cheap so cheap that if you unplugged it from the wall while the battery was attached the LCD panel and all the lights remained on because it was draining the battery so if left on it would kill batteries. I had a few of those over the years chargers that look like they would charge but weren't really healthy for batteries let's started me looking for something better I know a lot of folks like the battery tenders brand but I don't have that much experience with them.
@@nics-systems-electric over build for the marine industry. They make about anything you can think of to power a yacht, inverter, solar charger controllers, transfer switches and much more.
@@nics-systems-electric It likely was just a temporary pattern that brought warmer weather because we are in La Nina patternwhich favors colder wetter winters in northern USA and southern Canada
I had overcharge problem on DSC alarm system but there was linear voltage regulator with trimer to set voltage other problem was on APC SMART UPS 1500VA with two 12V in series. It destroy battery in less then 1year. I ignored battery fault LED two weeks and don't check battery because new batteries was ordered on the way. When I came home there was indefinable acrid smell not know where it come from at first until hear cracking and venting noise from UPS. Both battery were melted together and deformed I need dissasemble UPS to take them out after cooled down because it was as hot I burn my finger. I measure voltage before turn it down and it was 29,7V instead no more then 27,6V if I don't turn it off in time it probably catch fire and burn whole house down. My friend told me all APC Smart had this issue for charging on max. cycle voltage not continuous voltage.
Last joke about missing parts in charger was great! 😂 About diode. Better find normal classic diode, car alternator diodes will work too. That red PCB isn't clear diode. That looks to me like a smart rectifier with Mosfet and special driver IC more intended for rectification from AC to DC and probably has reverse diode inside in Mosfet and isn't suitable for this application. That's why bell worked in both directions. For charging issues - I think, these smart chargers don't like reverse voltage because that's messing up measurements to determine state of charge. They're going crazy. As solution - adding diode in charger circuit, but that will work only, if charger allows charging without seeing battery. Lots of smart chargers don't output anything if battery isn't present. Other solution - old fashion transformer charger with limiting backup diode in output line. They don't care, because they are analog and always outputting what's set.. Cheers!
Yes, the diode is a little strange however it is working keeping the voltage down. The bell indeed did run, but we can tell it was slightly slower when the diode was in place its proper direction. I put a new charger on I'll see how this one goes.
you have been posting bout your Generator Problems over 4 years i have been watching your youtube channel go get real Generator and stop being a big crybaby bout your Generator Problems
You don't seem to have a lot of information correct. To start with I've only had a generator at all less than three years. And this particular generator being automated has been less than a year and a half. And clearly you haven't been watching or you would know why I don't have a "real generator" you should also be aware there are cost limitations which I did even mention in this video.
@nics-systems-electric don't worry about these guys. I'm an electrician and even do high voltage dc. Tbh, I would recommend a solar panel with Bluetooth controller. Just buy a cheap dc timer with a ssr, all running off the load output from the controller. With just those few parts, you would have BT battery monitoring, charging, and remote start/stop. You could even control the charger to only charge when its needed through the controller.
1:59 "...switches between sources for this panel" *THONK* 🤣
Nic please do more durability testing it's been a year
Specifically BG-12 please
The Lx version would be costly lol
If the opportunity comes available I will
26:02 YES DURABILITY TEST WITH CHARGER!
@@nics-systems-electricdurability test a bg12lx
What's the thing on your patio table at 13:01? It looks vaugely like an electrical service meter.
It is
Nick all your videos they’re amazing
25:53 battery charger durability testing.
HI NICK YOUR VIDEOS ARE SO GOOD I CAN,T STOP WATCHING IT
I know he's my favorite TH-camr 😂
are you special?
@@tweedstreetofficial-o1z No im not
Awesome smashing video at the end! 25:57
Nic a new'ish viewer responding to your video ... there are a couple of issues with what you are trying to achieve, and as a result, you are probably going to kill any battery chargers you buy.
1) BOTH DC Power sources need (generator and external charger) a blocking diode in series with both sources. This will prevent power from either source backfeeding to the other source and causing the voltage regulation to not work correctly, and potentially could damage the DC output and regulation circuits of one or both sources.
2) A diode should block electron flow in one direction regardless of voltage or current levels. A diode designed for huge current flow will often exhibit a bit more backflow leakage than a small signal diode, BUT, regardless whether the diode is rated for 1 amp or 1000 amps the reverse current flow should be very, very low. When I saw your test of the diode reverse flow in your video, there was clearly something a miss. However the more reliable test method, would be to lift one side of the diode ( preferably from the battery end, and test with everything shutdown using a volt-ohm meter. Resistance in one direction should be almost nothing, resistance in the opposite direction should be very high. If that is in fact not the case, then the diode is damaged and not blocking as it should and needs to be replaced. If you need additional assistance, please email me at: rcrask@awti.info. if you want to talk via phone about this issue or any other, please email me and I will send my cell/sms number. Best to you in your efforts. ~Dr. Raymond C. Rask~
The bell is rated to run at only 0.030 A which it was not running happily in the test so definitely not much current. My question I have is why would the external charger need a diode when the generator already has one to prevent it from charging the battery.
Nic you should get a federal signal SST3-MV siren for outside
Just a thought.... Maybe use a LiFeP04 battery instead to sort this overcharging issue. When the voltage reaches 14.6 the BMS will disconnect it.
Amazing video as pe usual, and i guess you did do another mini durability test at timestamp 25:46
25:54 Durability testing in a non durability testing video even though the durability testing is more like destruction
I don't think there was a problem with your changer (until you dropped it :D). A lead cell battery requires 14.5 to 14.9 Volts to bulk-charge.
Please remember that a lead acid battery of "12 Volts" is composed of 6 cells is series with each 2.2 Volts nominal tension, which equals 13.2 Volts in total.
So your 12 Volts battery is actually a 13.2 Volts battery.
The bulk-charge is required every time the battery started the genset. A decent charger should go from constant current (while voltage can be as high as 14.9 Volt) to constant voltage when the voltage drops to 13.3 Volts. This is pretty much the standby voltage that can be permanent on the battery. Please measure the current during bulk charge. It should not exceed ¼ of the 'Ah' rating. The charger does not know the Ah-rating of the battery, so you should buy a charger that is adapted to the Ah-rating. For example: if the battery is 12 Volts - 9 Ah, then the charger should not be able to output a current higher than 1/4th of 9 Ah = 2.2 Amps. A 2 Amps charger would be perfect in this case.
you can see the details of the battery at 10:20
I disagree. I do not feel comfortable with the battery charger charging in excess of 16 V when none of the other ones get that high it doesn't seem right.
@@nics-systems-electric I agree, Your average car Alternator outputs max 14.4v if its a really good alternator (Most more cheepo once are 13.8), if it only went to like 14.6 id let it slide but 16 let alone 16.5 thats way to high, i can agree with thomas on the Nominal cell charge so it would be more like a 13v battery since a good new battery would usualy lay at 12.6-12.8v ish, but 16v is still to high in my opinion
@@nekolivegaming Exactly! The highest i see in the cars I(my family) has are 14volts at 2k rpm and the regulator keeps it there.
@@nics-systems-electric I would check out the Victron Bluepower chargers, fully configurable through a bluetooth app and i use them for my cars. I have the 4amp and 30amp version.
Not related to the generator but I think it would be cool to put a blue building indicator strobe on the outside of the house and a beam smoke detector in the attic. Maybe some horn strobes In the attic as well.
Hey Nic, it seems the charger is either faulty or something is wrong with the excessive run times causing the overcharging of the battery. Typically, these lead cell batteries sit around 12.2-12.6 volts as it's the standby voltage. 16 volts is much too high for any typical ead cell battery as it could cause damage to the battery or even worse, catch fire in some cases. An idea I had come to mind was to use an alternator with a voltage regulator so that as the generator is running, it charges the battery but limits the voltage to 13.6-14.6 volts if its a good alternator.
Yes charger seemed to be the issue
@nics-systems-electric I kinda figured that considering the high voltages resulting from it. I would suggest getting an alternator from a junkyard vehicle or something and using that as a charger of some sort. Another idea I had sparked up in my mind was to get a battery charger that regulates battery voltage between the range of 13.6 volts and 14.6 volts which is perfect for a car that's running. I would use a voltage regulator for this purpose as it should do the job, or if you have the money for one, I would get a Military Surplus Diesel generator as a substitute for your current generator. Yes, these Military Surplus' can supply 120/208v AC current to any building and is enough to power an entire house. These generators also have electric start which is good for your current set up, but work differently as there's a prime stage for these generators so they get fuel. If you could possibly incorporate that into your current setup then I would recommend getting one of those generators as they already have an alternator built in to recharge the batteries, I will warn you, these MSDGs have two batteries, not one as your current setup has which is probably what you're used to.
Edit: I really did actually take about 30 minutes to type out this entire paragraph of text.
Internal circuitry of both chargers not playing nice being connected to the same battery and killed the other ?
@nics-systems-electric The reason why the generator keeps charging the battery and it reaches 16 volts is because you don't have anything to monitor the battery voltage and tell the charger to turn off once the battery hits a certain voltage and turn on once the battery drops below a certain voltage, you need what's called a voltage regulator and connect the leads from the charger to the input of the voltage regulator and the alligator clips going to the battery on the output. TLDR: You need a voltage regulator and run the charger output through the input of the regulator and use that to charge the battery.
You shouldn't require that at all the generator's charging system is supposed to maintain a specific voltage and not exceeded same with external charger.
you: "My bad for coffee on the firebell" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The only thing with backup power is my security system (aka simply safe) so all I hear when the power is out is “Warning power outage base station on Battery backup”
Do you think you can make a wiring diagram for how the generator is integrated with power failure and timers
There are schematics available from the transfer switch as far as what I've added I do not have a schematic. I'm sure someone could put one together through watching my videos as everything is documented.
Nick
go for a solar charger as it will be only charge during the day less to plug into the garage wiring.
I wouldn't want something that only charges in the day that seems pretty silly
Great Video
I've had good results with the NOCO's. Though I did have one of the small 1 amp ones die and warranty replaced, died and wouldn't turn on. And my original one finally bit the dust I think due to capacitor issues. Otherwise they have been solid chargers. I am mediately noticed a difference when I switched to them way back when and even managed to recover a battery that I thought was totally dead. Oh and the clamps on the NOCO can be unscrewed to give you battery terminals, This was a clever design change that they made to give you clamps and rings.
I encountered one battery charger that apparently worked very good and was at a good price that somebody was telling me about and the guy where I worked bought it, as soon as I got my hands on it I said this is awfully lightweight. Boy was that thing cheap so cheap that if you unplugged it from the wall while the battery was attached the LCD panel and all the lights remained on because it was draining the battery so if left on it would kill batteries.
I had a few of those over the years chargers that look like they would charge but weren't really healthy for batteries let's started me looking for something better I know a lot of folks like the battery tenders brand but I don't have that much experience with them.
Yeah I've since replaced it with another one hopefully it goes better this time the two amp one.
10:23 i enjoy youre content for moments like this
I assume you had to modify the generator for remote start? Or did it have a contact-closure input for this when you got it?
Just tied relays in to the existing wiring. I've got video on it th-cam.com/video/R0HylnjSegs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=atbdat-9qkF6HgO0
I agree with the macdonald
Well, that sucks
That you had to deal with that
Nic, maybe someday you'll have a whole house system either propane or diesel who knows what the future will hold for you my friend.
Too expensive for a diesel
when you tried to break the cable pov me when im angry very very verry angry
Well, that was a lot of information you said you’re from Canada me too
What is the video about today for Wednesday?
Time for a Victron battery charger, just don't look at the price and click add to cart
What does it do that's special?
@@nics-systems-electric over build for the marine industry. They make about anything you can think of to power a yacht, inverter, solar charger controllers, transfer switches and much more.
Ahh yes just how I like my battery chargers PCB free
to charge a 12v battery you need a charge voltage in that 15v range
Should not be charging more than 15 V definitely not over 16
Lucky Nic doesn't get 20 inches of snow like I have. How's the weather there?
I wish we did the weather's been very mild this year
@@nics-systems-electric It likely was just a temporary pattern that brought warmer weather because we are in La Nina patternwhich favors colder wetter winters in northern USA and southern Canada
Your videos are so good
I appreciate it man
E. (Join the E.)
25:56 I think we have something in common
🔥🔥
I had overcharge problem on DSC alarm system but there was linear voltage regulator with trimer to set voltage other problem was on APC SMART UPS 1500VA with two 12V in series. It destroy battery in less then 1year. I ignored battery fault LED two weeks and don't check battery because new batteries was ordered on the way. When I came home there was indefinable acrid smell not know where it come from at first until hear cracking and venting noise from UPS. Both battery were melted together and deformed I need dissasemble UPS to take them out after cooled down because it was as hot I burn my finger. I measure voltage before turn it down and it was 29,7V instead no more then 27,6V if I don't turn it off in time it probably catch fire and burn whole house down. My friend told me all APC Smart had this issue for charging on max. cycle voltage not continuous voltage.
Wow 😮
1 min gang
👇
Nick you're gonna want to hear this.......
How often does Ayla find a rat?
Rarely does she get a hold of them but she looks for them and knows where they are every day
205😊
Where is annual 2025 fire alarm system test video?
Sometime in the next year
@@nics-systems-electric it is 2025 already
@@erikmorozov1740 yup that's right. So I've got the next 12 months.
@@nics-systems-electric you normally do it in January
@@erikmorozov1740 yup
ADD A BEEFY DIODE SIMPLE ONE
Last joke about missing parts in charger was great! 😂
About diode. Better find normal classic diode, car alternator diodes will work too. That red PCB isn't clear diode. That looks to me like a smart rectifier with Mosfet and special driver IC more intended for rectification from AC to DC and probably has reverse diode inside in Mosfet and isn't suitable for this application. That's why bell worked in both directions.
For charging issues - I think, these smart chargers don't like reverse voltage because that's messing up measurements to determine state of charge. They're going crazy. As solution - adding diode in charger circuit, but that will work only, if charger allows charging without seeing battery. Lots of smart chargers don't output anything if battery isn't present.
Other solution - old fashion transformer charger with limiting backup diode in output line. They don't care, because they are analog and always outputting what's set..
Cheers!
Yes, the diode is a little strange however it is working keeping the voltage down. The bell indeed did run, but we can tell it was slightly slower when the diode was in place its proper direction. I put a new charger on I'll see how this one goes.
When is 2025 test
Whenever I do it I've got a whole year before it needs to be done
@ got a point😂
26:20 I'll Give ya $2.50 for it /j
First
Nobody asked
you have been posting bout your Generator Problems over 4 years i have been watching your youtube channel go get real Generator and stop being a big crybaby bout your Generator Problems
no
You don't seem to have a lot of information correct. To start with I've only had a generator at all less than three years. And this particular generator being automated has been less than a year and a half. And clearly you haven't been watching or you would know why I don't have a "real generator" you should also be aware there are cost limitations which I did even mention in this video.
lmao just stop watching them
@nics-systems-electric don't worry about these guys. I'm an electrician and even do high voltage dc. Tbh, I would recommend a solar panel with Bluetooth controller. Just buy a cheap dc timer with a ssr, all running off the load output from the controller. With just those few parts, you would have BT battery monitoring, charging, and remote start/stop. You could even control the charger to only charge when its needed through the controller.