Do women have to remain silent in church? | GotQuestions.org
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2020
- According to 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 and other Bible passages, are women allowed to speak in Church? Some say, “no.” Others, “yes.” However, when considering the meaning of 1 Corinthians 14, along with passages like 1 Corinthians 11:5 and others, what does the Bible really say about women speaking in church? In this video Pastor Nelson answers the question, “Do women have to remain silent in church?”
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This topic is becoming more and more touchy but the thing about God's Word is it doesn't change with the times or culture. Thank you for bending your view to fit scripture instead of bending scripture to fit a culturally influenced view.
And it's going to get more and more touchy as we approach the end of the age. I'm glad you have a biblical world view brother.
indeed, may every male be circumcised or face the wrath of god!
No but many twist it.
You're RIGHT it doesn't change. That's why people are not allowed to GROW AND LEARN AND EVOLVE. Christianity IS DYING
Amen! We should change to please The Lord, not the other way around.
“In the last days I shall poor out my spirit upon all flesh and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy”
AMEN! AMEN!
@Bithiah 🙏🏼 No it doesn't mean outside the church. Jesus did away with worship in a building but replaced it in our hearts. Read John chapter 4 for clarity
@@TheShutterbug1968 I hope you understand the church (ekklesia) is the assembly of God's people wherever they choose to assemble, NOT a physical building. Men and women definitely prophesied and evangelized outside of assembled worship services.
Keyword "Prophesy"
@@Sanctified_EDC_Gear Revelation 19:10 ESV
[10] Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
As a woman, who have been in a church with a woman pastor whose husband is a pastor too, I understand this Scripture better.
I left that church about six years ago, where the lady had so much authority to say the least. Sometimes, there was competition in the air between husband and wife, not to mention discrepancies in interpreting some scriptures.
Please, ladies, we have to respect The Lord's order.
Deborah
Why does the bible say we have to be quiet?
I just wanna understsnd why its disgraceful
@@lucidfangirl1030 Men and women are
perfectly equal spiritually. If you know
that then you're fine.
@@lucidfangirl1030o be quiet is to be helper for the men. There is a spiritual authority God wants to function the church, and on that mens have the authority for the church and God design that no one else, it's God. Eve deceive first not adam, Adam created first not eve. So this also has direct implication on how the church will goes. In this modern era especially on charismatic movements I became amused when I see women being church pastors above men. If it's not biblical it's not biblical, we must drop all emotions and let the word of God to work
Tbh this makes me very uncomfertable because I feel like im not valued in the church and everybody just wants me to shut up because of eves sin and I almost feel like becoming agnostic at this point
Jewish women didnt have knowledge in that time as the men, because in their culture men were the one with knowledge. When the time came for women to have freedom to learn, they couldn't interrupt entire church with their talking and asking things, instead they kept quiet and asked husbands at home. Today we have some women more knowledgeable and braver then men and they should not keep quiet.
god adapts to the times. “god doesn’t change!” doesn’t apply to this and people like to use it as an excuse to be sexist. last time males had to be circumcised, last time polygamy was widely accepted, last time there were specific foods you couldn’t eat. it’s just like peter’s vision. women participating in the church is not a sin, don’t worry.
Honey. The context for these verses are very important. What Paul wants the women to do is to not talk during services specifically. Because women and people were talking the whole time and interrupting. So the meetings weren’t organized very well. If you’ve got issues understanding it or feelings that are unresolved talk to God about it he’s there. Women are still allowed to prophesy most likely and pray. In Corinthians it becomes pretty clear he just doesn’t want them teaching. It’s not that women can’t teach others we just can’t teach men in the church. So women and children even our own families maybe are still able to be taught. Also think about it God may want a woman to talk to her husband about the service in order to prompt discussion about himself/The things of his word. I think all of this will take some time to adjust to but I don’t think it’s bad. There are reasons the word has not changed and there are reasons it will not. So I suggest you read the passages whole chapters before just zeroing in on those verses. That will bring you a surprising amount of clarification.
@@gowongodmom4851 it was only for that church, women are welcome to teach now. as you said, the context is important.
@@nazgulstew That’s not what I said. What I mean with that is at home settings outside of the church. Women are not omitted from having authority over children or each other. Women can teach within their own sex and others offspring that’s what I was talking about. We can teach me outside of the church as well but that’s more like evangelism not really teaching. But I’m gonna be preachers but that doesn’t mean we don’t have an important role either.
Amen brother.
Let God Will prevail
Wow nice job. 💝
YES
The most curious thing is that women here do not have the right to judge the divine according to the command of the Apostle Paul (The command of God, through the Apostle Paul)
Amen
The power imbalance directly benefits men when women are silent because it filters down into individual homes/families. I think that men don't want to examine their attitude of heart in that, I don't think they want to face their own motives for interpreting Paul's words the way they have. So much out-of-context God's word has been used to hurt people over centuries.
It says what it says. I don’t like it as a man, but it’s not what I want, but what God wants.
You’re absolutely right - this teaching was taken totally out of context and was very convoluted in its reasoning. If you actually look at the passage where women were told to ask their husbands at home, it’s because they were asking questions in the church service regarding the message being given, and interrupting the teacher. It had nothing to do with speaking in tongues, otherwise, Paul would have specifically addressed that.
Prophecy is not teaching, but simply words of encouragement and exhortation which are designed to edify believers. There IS a difference. Many people have been profoundly ministered to through this beautiful gift that still operates today - through both men and women - in the body of Christ.
@@colepriceguitar1153 if you believe in bible believe it fully don't try to make inventions
@@husseinmohamed1777 I am. What do you think I am inventing?
@@colepriceguitar1153 I wrongly replied to you. Sorry
This is wrong, The Conext is Tongues and Prophecy but the preceeding verses of 1 Cor 14:33 are specifically reffering to "Testing Prophecy" Which is what Churches were instructed to do thats why Paul says the "Prophets are subject to the prophets"
In other words: Woman were to keep silent when it came to "Testing the prophets" It was considered a shameful thing for a woman to publicly test/challenge/question someone so Paul says, Let the Woman speak with her husband in Private about things rather than publicly test/challenge/question a "Prophet".
Its obvious that Woman are allowed to prophecy and Speak in tongues - Multiple times in the Chapter Paul uses plural words (In the GRK) to define who should prophecy
Verse 5 "I wish that you ALL spoke in tongues"
Thats all, Men and Woman.
Verse 24 But if ALL prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by ALL, he is convicted by ALL.
Again thats ALL, men and woman.
And Peter even Explains in Acts that the Holy spirit being poured out is the fufillment of Joels Prophecy that "Sons and Daughters shall prophecy"
Paul Writes that all gifts are for the edification of the Body - How can prophecy be something woman are able to do except for the one place that Paul says Gifts are for which is "The Church"
Thats like God saying: Heres a gift for the Church but you cant use it in Church (What?) That makes no sense at all.
Just a Side note that I beleive in the Complimentarian view of Men/Woman in Church NOT egalitarian but to me this Video is just a straight up misinterpretation of the text.
@@blacksheepministry And where exactly have I stretched?
Thankyou.. I was searching for an anserew that made sense
It’s so refreshing to see people who actually read and study the Word of God for themselves, and not just take what they hear at face value.
What you wrote makes so much sense. it fits with the entire context. Paul also tells women to prophesy with their head covered, he's obviously not telling them that they have to cover up in their homes, it has to be regarding to the public worship and Corinthians were misusing tongues and Paul was telling them how to use them properly, so what you say makes a lot of sense to me.
@@blacksheepministry Please answer Rangi, where exactly has she stretched the scriptures?
Dear Gotquestions crew,
Thank you for all your great teaching !
I have a concern that I would love your input on. My church has sent a letter notifying us that women in our church are now allowed during the service, to read a Bible passage and pray before the congregation along with being able to choose the hymns to be sang. It doesn’t feel in line with what God is saying.
Please help !
God bless you !
The bible does allow women to pray and prophesy in the congregation
Jewish women didnt have knowledge in that time as the men, because in their culture men were the one with knowledge. When the time came for women to have freedom to learn, they couldn't interrupt entire church with their talking and asking things, instead they kept quiet and asked husbands at home. Today we have some women more knowledgeable and braver then men and they should not keep quiet.
@@prosperitygama9730 no it doesn’t. That is not talking about the gathering of the church. Also if it did then these passages would contradict. Verse 17 starts a new subject, which then proceeds to talk about the meeting of the church. Outside of church women can pray and prophesy but they must cover their head, but in church women should be silent for “it is shameful for women to speak in church”. I kinda find it hard to read these verses and say women can speak in church. I don’t think Paul could be more clear.
@@ZandJ12345 we can go back and forth on this matter for hours dear. I disagree with your analysis but i do think this is the reason denominations exist so those with one interpretation of text can fellowship together
It is because Paul said it. Look to what Jesus did as the example. Jesus loves us all and spoke and allowed women to speak. We are all 'Mankind" male and female alike. Leave Pauls words and follow Jesus. Blessings in Christ!
HISTORY Repeats itself with different scenarios... The Downfall of Mankind (loss of Immortal Life/separation from God's grace and goodness) was when ADAM listened to the VOICE of EVE to eat the forbidden fruit instead of ADAM trusting and listening only to the WORD from God... likewise, ABRAHAM listened to the VOICE of his wife SARAH to sleep with her servant HAGAR, instead of Abraham trusting and listening only to the Word of God that his wife Sarah would give birth to a son in God's due time... that was the reason why God required to TEST Abraham's Faithfulness and Trustworthiness when God asked him to sacrifice His son Isaac...
The Descendant of Abraham from Sarah's son ISAAC (Father of Israel/Jews/Judaism) should never had any CONFLICT/HATRED/QUARREL with the Descendant of Abraham from Hagar's son ISHMAEL (Father of the Arabs/Muslims/Islam)... if ONLY both Adam and Abraham listen to the VOICE (Word) of God alone...
This is one reason why St. Paul said that "WOMEN of Faith" must learn to KEEP Silent and Quiet in the Church of God in Christ Jesus... When it comes to Spiritual/Religious Church matters, God does not want "MEN (Elders) of Faith" to listen and Trust to the VOICE of the Women but only from GOD alone... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen and Amen.
yes.
In GENERAL, Yes, all Women who practice CHRISTIANITY should learn HOW to be "SILENT/QUIET" with modesty and humbleness when it comes to the CHURCH and Spiritual matters for that is the WILL of God... unless God Himself appointed a real PROPHETRESS if no man is qualified to do the task of God...
All Christian Women should look upon the modesty and humble obedient example of Blessed Mary, even though she has found "HIGHLY FAVORED" from God and with "FULL of GRACE" from the Holy Spirit than any Apostles, Disciples, Martyrs, and Saints... Blessed Mary practiced till her death to be SILENT/QUIET in the CHURCH of God in Christ.... Facts and Truth of the Matters.
Blessed Mary should be the model for all CHRISTIAN WOMEN with modesty, humbleness, and obedience to the WILL of God... Not OUR own WILL, but God's WILL be done...
Glory, Praise, and Thanks be to God in Christ Jesus' name... Amen
Speaking in tongues, like if I speak in Mandarin? Can I? or only if there's an interpreter present? If I can't speak or pray I won't go, end of the trouble.
YES!
The Lord himself commands it......1 Corinthians 14 33:38.
The faithful will obey, the rest won't and will even refuse to "Acknowledge" the Lord's commandment...
For as Christ has well stated:
"By their fruits shall you know them"....
Are you high or something?
The 'be quiet' does not mean shut your mouth. It means 'no your role' and be in the background. Do not take the lead. Pray and prophecy in submission under Biblical male authority.
@@BibleSamurai
The Lord himself commands they remain silent. It being "a SHAME for a woman to speak".....1 Corinthians 14 33:38.
The faithful will obey, the rest, like yourself, won't comply and will even refuse to "Acknowledge" that it is the Lord's commandment...
For as Christ has well stated:
"By their fruits shall you know them"....
@@earnestlycontendingforthef5332 Based on the way your coming at me, I perceive verse 38 may pertain to you where it says "But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant." You dont know how to take a Biblical approach to the scriptures. The devil quoted Scripture but Jesus replied and said "IT IS ALSO WRITTEN". So hear me, IT IS ALSO WRITTEN, concerning Phillip, Acts 21:9 says: "He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied." So according to you Phillip did not comply and even refuse to "Acknowledge" that it is the Lord's commandment that women be silent in the Church? Correct?
Even Paul is contray to Scripture according to you because He says ""But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head." 1 Cor 11:5. How about Anna, that prophetess in Luke 2:36-38 who the Scriptures call devout. But you would call bearing bad fruit because she spoke in the assembly of believers. And Anna was under the LAW.1 Corinthians 14:34 says women keeping silent in Church is accourding to the LAW: " Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says." Was Anna bearing bad fruit too?
You have taken an obtuse, isolated understanding of that verse like the Pharisees did. For example, according to the law, woman caught in adultery was supposed to be STONED. But the Scripture says Joseph was a righteous man for wanting to put his bride Mary away silently. Was Joseph bearing bad fruit? Or maybe Jesus when he told that woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more? OF COURSE NOT! I leave you with what my LORD left your type with "But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice." REPENT AND BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus Christ. In this day in age, ppl like you seldom concede.
So what is the end of the matter? The Lord commands them to be silent, learn in quietness, pray and prophecy. All under the submission of Biblical authority.
@@BibleSamurai
The command from the Lord, is women remain SILENT in the Church Assembles. "It being a SHAME for women to speak".
1 Corinthians 14:33-38.
"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home" (1 Corinthians 14:33-36.)
The Apostle here is appealing to the Corinthian Christians to conform to the same biblical principle practised in "all the churches of the saints", so this wasn't an isolated solution for a particular church. Paul here appeals to "the law", but where in the law does it require "submission?" In Genesis 3:16 God condemns Eve following "the fall" with these words:
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
The patriarchal relationship is God ordained even prior to the fall, but since the fall, a deeper patriarchal relationship exists. How can a man be ruling over his wife and daughters if they are ruling over him as officer bearers in the church? It is said by some that "we know women did speak in Temples." Yes, pagan temples. In first century Jewish synagogue worship, women did not read the Scriptures.
God has every right to order and govern His own worship and we ignore and belittle that to our own peril as Divine worship is a serious thing.
Particular examples (Miriam, Deborah, etc.) do not establish a common law for the church. We seek to learn God's common law for His people from His express commandments. Otherwise, we can justify marrying two sisters like Jacob, lying as the Hebrew midwives did in Egypt, and sleeping with prostitutes like Samson. Examples in Scripture do not overturn the normal rules for God's people. It is written:
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:11-12.)
The question is "why?" And here the Apostle goes back to creation for an answer:
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" (2:13-14.)
In short, Adam was created to be Eve's head, and not be her subordinate. Also Adam made a willful choice to disobey God, but Eve was "tricked." In short patriarchal rule existed prior to "the fall", but is even more severe since "the fall" and it impacts every facet of life, including office bearers in the church. The Levitical priesthood was only open to males, Jesus chose twelve male apostles, and when they replaced Judas, they only considered other males. The seven deacons chosen in Acts are all males. The qualifications in 1 Timothy 3 for office bearers requires them to be a "husband of one wife" which excludes the possibility of them being female.
The temptation is to see a woman who is an eloquent speaker, academically above her peers, more understanding, more empathetic, etc. and to prefer our own considerations over God's express command. That's essentially what Eve did in choosing the fruit. We read: "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat" (Genesis 3:6.)
Peace.
If Adam was with her, why didn’t he step up and tell Eve no? Him being over her he failed.
@@FawnFinch Is anyone defending Adam's part in the transgression? But King Jesus owns the world and is free to order and govern His own worship as He sees fit, and that may indeed be contrary to your feelings. Peace.
@@FawnFinchhis curse was worse than Eve's because of that, see how we're all mostly screwed for him not checking sin at the door?
1 Corinthians 14:34 35 Does this mean that women should not speak in church services today ? It is clear from 11 : 5 that women prayed and prophesied in public worship It is also clear in chapters 12-14 that women are given spiritual gifts and are encouraged to exercise them in the body of Christ . Women have much to contribute and can participate in worship services . In the Corinthian culture , women were not allowed to confront men in public . Apparently some of the women who had become Christians thought that their Christian freedom gave them the right to question the men in public worship . This was causing division in the church . In addition , women of that day did not receive formal religious education as did the men . Women may have been raising questions in the wor ship services that could have been answered at home without disrupting the services . Paul was asking the women not to flaunt their Christian freedom during worship. The purpose of Paul's words was to promote unity, not to teach about women's role in the church.
The verses are clear, let’s not change the meaning for our own liking.
nah women should absolutely be allowed to participate, this is the 21st century. “god doesn’t change!” doesn’t refer to this and is just an excuse for some to discriminate against women. god adapts to different eras.
@@nazgulstew no God doesn’t “adapt” to what we want. We know that God can not lie so God is not going to be fine with something because of the “era”
@@nazgulstew no one is discriminating against women. And no one is saying you can’t speak at all, but in a worship service… well the verses are clear.
@@ashtonmillis4951 then why did he allow polygamy last time but not now? why did he require sacrifices last time but not now? why did he not disapprove the marriage of abraham and his half sister last time but not now? historical context, isn’t it? same thing applies to this.
I agree with everything but the head covering part. Paul points to creation and says it must be worn during the service, he even says the angels are present and are watching. He never alludes to the culture or what was appropriate for that time . Its a direct command. Women do not have to wear them all day , just during service.
Awesome vid 👍
(I didn't watch this video but am familiar with this subject.)
...because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her...
In your own selves judge ye; is it seemly for a woman uncovered to pray to God? doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him? and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her;...
-Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
Does even nature itself not teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her as a covering.
-NASB
A woman's long hair is the 'covering'.
My thoughts: post length 7 minutes, scriptures outside of Corinthians mostly
Essay by another: post length 10 minutes, scriptures only within Corinthians
Reply for post(s) if desired. They includes scriptures and commentary.
It doesn't matter what you agree with , the Word doesn't change. Everything in the New Testament still stands till this day, just because you or culture don't agree with it doesn't make it untrue
The reason is because of culture.
It was against the law for anyone with a disease to be covered.
Due to the fact the disease could be spread. So it warned people.far off to be aware.
Secondly, the covering of the head represents the covering that the Lord has over us. It represents us being blessed and under Jesus covering and blod.
It's the same for men.
@@aclark210you can say that, but that doesn't deny that people can translate the Bible how they want then say the word of God doesn't change to stop others from questioning their interpretation.
1. How many number of versions of Bibles have been created till date ??
2. Can someone post reference Link about different versions of Bibles.
3. Can someone list combos of
Christian denomination - Bible version
Biblegateway.
Blessed Mary is the "Highest Role Model" for Christian Women and the Mother of Men and Women who love and believe in God (Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit)... Even though she was found "Highly Favored" by God with "Full of Grace" from the Holy Spirit, attested by Angel Gabriel, and all the "Accolades, Attributes and Salutation" she deserved, including "Blessed among Women," in spite of all of these, she still REMAINED silent/quiet with total submission and humility to the Body of Christ (Church of God) until her last breath on Earth...
"I am the Hand-made of the Lord God, be it done according to thy WORDS/WILL." (Luke 1:38)... Not our own WILL, but God's WILL be done... (Hands down, non-debatable/non-negotiable).
All Glory, Praise and Thanks be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
About 5:20, women aren't supposed to/allowed to speak in tongues in church?
If she's in the audience/congregation and feel the "need" to speak in tongues, then she is going against the Word if she does?
If Paul knew how this chapter would have been translated and interpreted, I wonder if he would have explained it differently?
I don't think so, as it's clear enough.
Hopefully.. yes..🤐
He 😊😊
The teaching of St. Paul (1 Cor. 14:34) about Christian women that must/should learn with humility how to KEEP Quiet/Silent in the CHURCH of God in Christ... does not mean that Christian women are prohibited from being Servants/Helpers of the CHURCH... NOPE... that was not what St. Paul had meant... take for example what St. Paul wrote to the Romans, " I (St. Paul) commended unto you PHOEBE our sister (the one who carried the letter of St. Paul), who is a "SERVANT" (helper) of the CHURCH which is in Cenchrea"... (Rom. 16/paraphrase)
Take Note #1:... St. Paul did not say, "Phoebe our sister, who is a Pastor/Rabbi/Teacher/Elder/Priestess of the CHURCH... none of which was mentioned but a "SERVANT"... What St. Paul had meant was NO WOMEN to be the LEADER (Acting Priesthood) of the Church on earth... Christ Jesus is the HEAD (Priesthood) of the Church of God... but before Christ ascended back to Heaven and seated at the right side of the Throne of His Father... Christ assigned first His Apostles (All Men) Headed by St. Peter to be "Christ's Acting Priesthood" to Govern, Lead, and Manage the CHURCH of God until Christ Jesus comes back again, in God's own appointed time...
Christ Jesus did not put "IN CHARGE" any women, including Blessed Mary or Mary Magdalene in the Body of Christ to be the Church's PRIESTHOOD...
But Christian Women could be servants/helpers of the Church or even Prophetess (female prophets) if chosen and decided by God...
Take Note #2:... DEBORAH was the only Female JUDGE and PROPHETESS chosen by God in/for Israel... but she was not chosen by God as a "PRIESTESS" in the Temple of God during the Old Covenant of God... God never used any Women as PRIESTHOOD for His Temple / Synagogue... which is also the same thing with the Second (New) Covenant of God, that NO Women Leader or Acting Priesthood to the Body of Christ (the CHURCH of God)... ONLY MEN can be chosen by God to be Christ's Acting PRIESTHOOD on Earth...That is God's WILL and PREROGATIVES... (hands down, non-debatable).
Therefore, Women can be God's JUDGE or PROPHETESS... but never God's PRIESTESS for His Temple/Church for both the Old and the New Covenant of God... That is what "Silent/Quiet" in the Church is all about... When it comes to Spiritual/Religious Matters... "MAN is the HEAD of every WOMAN"... why?... for God is the Head of Christ Jesus, so as "Christ Jesus is the HEAD of every Man"... (1 Corinthians 11:3/paraphrased)... Facts and Truth, Biblically speaking... Amen.
Take Note #3:... "Judges or Prophets/Prophetess" does not INTERFERE, INTERVENE, INTERCEDE, OBSTRUCT, GET INVOLVE with the PRIESTHOOD duties, rituals, offerings, managing finances (Levitical tithes), and responsibilities in the Holy Temple / Holy Tabernacle / Synagogue or Church of God (Body of Christ)... for both Old and New Covenant/Testament of God...
But the difference between O.T. and N.T., in the Church of God in Christ, women are allowed to freely offer their voluntary SERVICES (help/assistance) in/with total submission and humility to the PRIESTHOOD... plus no more animal burnt sacrifices for the atonement of sins and other Jewish rituals... Amen.
In general, the WILL of God is that the Holy Temple/Tabernacle/Synagogue or Church of God in Christ must/should be governed, led, and managed by Men (Male Hetero-Sexual Gender) of Faith as the Acting Priesthood of Christ Jesus on Earth... with one wife only or by freely voluntary single blessed/celibate men... Amen.
Hebrews 7:12/paraphrased... "But when the PRIESTHOOD was changed, the LAW must be changed as well."... Christ Jesus is the Sole Reigning New High PRIESTHOOD of God...
Glory, Praise and Thanks be to God in Christ Jesus' name... Amen.
Answer --- Yes.
No, women can speak but can't be a pastor or leader of a church.
@@htoosaw9012 Christianity is not "cultural". It shouldn't "change" over time because of a Culture. Read 1 Corinthians 14:37. But you most likely believe in Once Saved Always Saved so it's a mute point anyway.
@@htoosaw9012 they can be a pastor.
But do others, who have started churches, feel the same? We see in the scriptures what Paul is establishing for the churches he started. Is there anything written that says this is universal, that this is true for every church?
Paul commended a woman deacon in Romans.
Maybe only Paul can understand Paul.
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.
At the end of Romans, Paul mentions about 24 people.
Phoebe is the first to be mentioned.
Translation is NIV, and is also correct, regarding the word 'deacon'.
Strongs Number: G1249
Good luck with that!
With what?
I encourage you to watch “do women have to remain silent in church?” By got questions on TH-cam
I encourage you to link your recommendations, per internet protocol
Take Note: The first True Christian believer was Blessed Mary who found favor from God, with full of grace, and knew more Spiritual matters than any of the 12 Apostles, but who kept SILENT in the Church of God in Christ, to set an example to all Christian women... which was how God wants for Christian women to learn modesty and obedience to God... Praise be to God in Christ... Amen.
2 Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect. Romans 12:2
The 1Corinthians chapter and verse that you provided was not the complete text did you not see that those verses that you shared was only Paul telling the Corinthians what they believed and then after those verses he corrects them with a rebuke?
He says this in his rebuke in verse 36…
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?”
1 Corinthians 14:34-36 KJV
You see he literally says what?!?… is the word of God only for you?
This is key to understanding what Paul is actually saying. He’s rebuking them in verse 36 and the previous verses was him telling the Corinthians what they believe.
You can't make that fit with 1 Timothy 2:8-14 or the Leadership/Elder qualifications. It's quite clear to me.
Jewish women didnt have knowledge in that time as the men, because in their culture men were the one with knowledge. When the time came for women to have freedom to learn, they couldn't interrupt entire church with their talking and asking things, instead they kept quiet and asked husbands at home. Today we have some women more knowledgeable and braver then men and they should not keep quiet.
@@stefan00017 I love my ladies and sisters in Christ dearly, but that is not the reason the Spirit of God supplies in 1 Tim. 2:12-13. It is about the creation order and the accountability God has put on men to lead spiritually in God's household as they are to do in their own household. It's not about privilege or ability. It's about responsibility and accountability. Same reason God went to Adam and not to Eve when they both fell into sin.
@@ENiNjAnime women were forbidden to teach or speak because they just started learning so they had no knowledge or capacity to teach.
Paul made the parallel with genesis:
As adam came first and then eve, so men in that church had knowledge first before women.
As eve deceived adam so those women had been deceiving men with false teaching.
I believe that was Paul's concern
@@stefan00017It is no secret that most of the apostles were not very educated (Acts 4:13). I would say a basic rule of hermeneutics is to let the Bible interpret itself so we cannot rest on our own opinions for the answers to doctrine. He doesn't say because they have limited knowledge as God could easily and did give the woman spiritual knowledge. That's why they could prophesy and also were told to teach other woman and obviously children (Titus 2:3-5). Are men no longer responsible to God to lead the home now that women are educated?
What does Gods word say about this ?
Not what we think , feel or believe or “my “ opinion !
Stay with the word of God !
Does this mean that a woman can't trust her own undrstanding of scripture? Must we go to a man for understanding?
Yes, Paul said that if woman want to understand Bible then she should ask her husband or father at home.
Can you give reference to this?
What if the woman has no church or husband? I thought this was in reference to the Corinthian church where people are gathered together women are not permitted to speak.
@@sarahhammond5693 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they wantto inquire about something, they SHOULD ASK THEIR OWN HUSBANDS AT HOME; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church".
@@sarahhammond5693 Firstly, apostle Pauls said that his words is God commandement, 1 Corithians 14:37 "If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command" and the commandment applies to all Christians
Secondly, Collosians 3:11 "Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free,but Christ is all, and is in all" the Bible does not take into account national characteristics.
Thirdly, 1 Timothy 2:11-14 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." The Apostle Paul explains the ban on preaching from the lips of a woman by referring to the forefathers Adam and Eve, and the sin of the ancestor (original sin), as you know, concerns all people. If you say that Jesus allegedly atoned for this sin, then I will remind you that people are still mortal, which is one of the penance. Female silence is one of the penances of the ancestor Eve, the Apostle Paul did not say anything new, he only clarified the female penance indicated in the 3rd chapter of Genesis.
Fourthly, the word of God is unchanging, for God is not a man to change his words, First Epistle of Peter 1 chapter 25 verse: "but the word of the Lord endures forever; and this is the word that was preached to you," and "God is not a man to lie, and not the son of man, that he should change: shall he speak, and not do, shall he speak, and not do?" (Numbers 23:19). And also Deuteronomy 4 chapter 2 verse: "Do not add to what I command you, and do not subtract from it; keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." Matthew 24 chapter 35 verse: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away." Revelation of John 22 chapter 18-19 verse: “And I also testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds anything to them, God will put on him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the book of prophecy this, God will take away his share in the book of life and in the holy city and in what is written in this book. To the Galatians 1 chapter 8 verse: "But even if we or an angel from heaven began to preach to you not what we preached to you, let it be anathema", so the Bible is not reformed to modern realities, for the New Testament is that very reformation , which will be relevant until the Court.
The Bible does not adapt to modern realities, just as Lot did not adapt to the mores of Sodom
I don't agree with this assessment. From the text, women should at the least be allowed to pray and prophecy in church - this is obvious!
The other stuff needs more explanation and is more complicated
(I didn't watch the video.)
I can post my essay on Deborah, which
might help you with this.
Pretty decent video, dont forget the woman being made after and for the man, was deceived in the garden. Adam was not deceived.
AMEN! It's God's order for His creation, Men should be MEN and Women should be WOMEN. No need to add more to it!! We live in a fallen world and people cant help but go against God's word.
It’s pretty easy to go against god when almost everything he commanded in the Old Testament was clearly not of god. That….was….people. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to notice that it’s all geared toward Jewish culture propaganda.
1 Corin 14:34... is about St. Paul telling the Christians that any "Spiritual/Religious Women who claimed to be Christian should/must learn how to respect SILENT in the Church of God and must not teach over Men about Church matter... This commandment is not from St. Paul but from God for St. Paul is fully guided by the Holy Spirit, what to speak, teach, and write...
God has valid reasons that all Christian Women should/must respect God's PREROGATIVE or WILL:
1. God, first created ADAM, in God's Image and Likeness, and from ADAM bone (rib) and flesh, came EVE called Woman which means "Came from Man." (ref.: Genesis 2:7-18)
2. It was ADAM and not EVE, that God commanded to SUBDUE (rule) and give Names to all God's creation, and whatever ADAM named them, so be it... (ref.: Genesis 2:19)
3. It was EVE that was DECEIVED by Satan (Old Serpent in the Garden of Eden) and ADAM was DECEIVED by EVE to disobey God by offering him to eat the forbidden fruit that caused them to LOSE their IMMORTALITY and BONDAGE (TIES) of Relationship to God thru their SIN... (ref.: 1 Timothy 2:14)... For The Wages of SIN is DEATH commonly called the ORIGINAL SIN of Mankind at the Garden of Eden...
4. The Head of Christ Jesus is God, and the Head of every Man is Christ Jesus, while the Head of every Woman is Man... (ref.: 1 Corinthians 11:3-4).
5. Man does not need to cover their head while praying or doing service to the Church of God, but Women must cover their Head with VEIL to hide their hair when praying or doing service to the Church of God as a sign of MODESTY, HONOR to her Husband (if married) and TOTAL SUBMISSION to the Authority of the Church... (Ref. 1 Corinthians 11:5-13)
These are some of God's reasons (prerogative/will) dictated by the Holy Spirit in St. Paul's Epistles... Facts and Truth, Biblically speaking... Amen...
Have you honestly done an analysis in the Greek of which words are being used contextually? It's not the same when analyzed. The English translation sucks.
What about women preachers?
Why do the all the passages regarding the leadership gifts, parts of the body, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit--Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 12, Romans 12, etc. all contain GENDER-INCLUSIVE language? That's the comprehensive view of the New Testament, that both male and female can be any part of the Body, have any gift of the Spirit, and can occupy the 5-fold ministry positions in Ephesians 4.
The outlier verses (a mere sprinkling of verses) contradict the tenor of the New Testament as far as women in ministry.
I'm going from the GENERAL to the SPECIFIC. From that which is SIMPLE and CLEAR to that which is more difficult to resolve.
Were Paul and the Holy Spirit schizophrenic? How come Paul states that the Holy Spirit can give a gift of teaching and leadership to a woman and NOT allow her to use it? Why would God have her praying and prophesying in 1 Corinthians 11, but tell her to be silent in 1 Corinthians 14??
Bible passages are meant to harmonize. If there's a contradiction, then those passages need to be looked at more carefully.
Many use 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 as a proof text for women to be silent, but they COMPLETELY DISREGARD the passage that these two verses are drawn from, due to their own theological viewpoints, concluding the gifts of the spirit have ceased.
In that situation, how can two verses be pulled out of their context and regarded as universal, whereas the rest of the passage be seen as for a certain period of time that is no longer?? Doesn't make sense, does it?
Since at the time of the New Testament writing, there were no chapter headings, paragraph breaks, and punctuation, Paul had to employ writing structures. People of his day were familiar with them, whereas many people of our day don't know them at all.
There's a CHIASTIC STRUCTURE in 1 Corinthians 14 that ties these three groups of people inextricably together: those who speak in tongues, the prophets, and the women.
An example of a chiastic structure is "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. The order goes A-B-C, and, then, in reverse... C, B, A. In this case, the main idea (the point of focus) would be the C1 and C2, if you will, since they're in the center of the structure.
When using chiastic structures, the three groups are addressed in the same way going forward and, then, addressed in the same way in reverse order.
Paul was dealing with two groups of people: the "anything goes" crowd and, then, the "nothing is permitted" crowd. Moving forward you see Paul addressing the first group, by putting in protocol: wait your turn, tongues needs interpretation, etc. But, through it all, Paul doesn't say stop anybody from ministering in those ways.
In reverse order, Paul addresses the "nothing is permitted" crowd by stating do not forbid speaking in tongues, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially to prophesy.
The center part of the chiastic structure is the main idea, which involves the women. Since the women are a part of this structure, Paul address the issue of the women in the same way going forward and in reverse in the same way as the two other groups.
Moving forward: There's protocol for women to speak in the church.
In reverse: Do NOT forbid the women to speak in the church.
Please study it for yourselves. Watch videos on chiastic structures and how they operate. This passage is not as straightforward as many are making it out to be, due to Paul's writing structure. We MISINTERPRET this passage, due to ignorance of Paul's writing structure here.
Also, the whole tenor of 1 Corinthians 14 is ALL-INCLUSIVE! When the whole church gathers... all of you can speak in tongues, all of you can prophesy, etc.
In the Greek, the language of the passage is also gender-inclusive. Please look in the interlinear of the Blue Letter Bible App. Where it says "he," "him," "men," etc., in the Greek, the words mean everyone. The English translators chose to use male-centric language in these passages.
The only two words that are not gender-inclusive is where Paul addresses the "brethren" or "brothers" and the "women." I have reasons for this also.
Trust me, there are questions and concerns about the other "women are not allowed" passages.
To learn more, please go to The Bible Mind Podcast. I have a whole series on "women in ministry."
Brilliantly stated, and definitely shoots down the Calvinist view of women’s roles in the church.
This is very interesting. How do you interpret 1 Timothy 2:8-14?
@@johnv3788
Thanks for asking!
I see that passage in 1 Tim 2:8-14 as an outlier, given that the other passages are gender-inclusive and call for the whole Body of Christ to participate, both males and females.. I've studied the passage in depth, and there are enough questions about it that leave it open for other interpretations.
For instance, why does Paul go from speaking about "women" plural to a "woman" singular, from the passage starting in verse 9 into the passage starting in verse 11. Why not just continue with "women" plural? When he wrote about a "woman" singular, could he have been speaking about one woman in particular?
Back then, women were still catching up to men in the spiritual arena, especially knowledge of the Scriptures. For centuries, they were left out of participating in the spiritual activities of their respective communities. They were more observers rather than participants. Also, they weren't intentionally taught like the men.
For that reason, those women who had the boldness to teach may not have had all the knowledge they needed in order to teach accurately. Paul's admonition to Timothy was to teach her. It's interesting how he didn't tell Timothy to get her husband to teach her at home. But, she (woman singular) was to learn in quietness and full submission. At that time, this was a revolutionary statement, because, as already stated, women weren't taught the Scriptures. Men were also called to learn in quietness and full submission; this posture being ideal (in the Jewish mind) for any student. In other words, Paul didn't tell Timothy to treat her any differently than he would've treated the men.
Also, that word "authority," as in not letting a woman have authority over a man, is only seen in the new testament in this passage. It's not the regular word for authority, but it's a word that reflects abusive authority. If it was a universal principle that women shouldn't have authority over men, then why not just use the regular word for authority? This sounds like a particular situation, which leads one to believe that it's unique to the context of the Ephesians church at the time and this particular woman.
Furthermore, some would say there were pre-gnostic ideas/teachings floating around, where Eve came before Adam and was the teacher of Adam. If so, Paul was making a much-needed correction.
The head of every woman is man , the head of every man is Christ and the head of Christ is God. Man has complete control and authority over his wife. If a woman has not a husband then her authority is her earthly father and must obey and listen to him. With the women's movement and feminism and man moving so far away from Gods Word over many years women's mind cannot believe such a thing as a man controlling and having authority over them . This has lead to the horror of abortion and men allowing them to run the household reversing the role of leader ship in the family unit . Hence America has become a fallen nation filled with every kind of wicked spirit , foul bird and demons. Only a very few women and men will be saved from its corruption and be taken up in the Rapture.
What does the bible say about that.. doctrine is spiritual... Gods command!
1 Corinthians chapter 11 precedes😮
These are the WILL of GOD, that Christian Women must modestly and obediently obey and follow to be Silent/Quiet in the CHURCH of God taught by Christ Jesus to St. Paul:
Main Reasons only:
1. God created ADAM first (not EVE) in God's Image and Likeness (ref.: Genesis 1:27)
2. Only ADAM was given by God the authority to rule, subdue, and give names to all God's creations, whatever ADAM gave, that is their names (ref.: Genesis 2:18-20).. that is why still up to this day, Man is the giver of the Descendant names, for example... Yeshua bin Yosef (Jesus son of Joseph)... in our modern time, the children adopted the "Family name of their Father" and not the maiden name of the mother...
3. God created EVE from the Rib (bone) and Flesh of ADAM, and she was called Woman which means "Came from Men" (ref: Genesis 2:24)
4. ADAM was not deceived by the Serpent (Satan) but was EVE, and EVE deceived ADAM by giving the Forbidden Fruits to him (ref: Genesis 3:1-15)
5. The Head of Christ Jesus is God, and the Head of every Man is Christ Jesus, while the Head of the Woman is Man (ref.: 1 Corinthians 11:3)
6. Man does not need to cover his head when praying to God, but the woman must cover her head when praying to God for the sake of man and as a sign of total submission to the Body of Christ (Church) (ref.: 1 Corinthians 11:10)
6. Only MAN is considered by God worthy to give ANCESTRAL LINEAGE and SPIRITUAL BLESSING to their descendants that is why MAN called it "HIS STORY" (History) and not HER STORY... for example,... Jacob had 13 Children including 1 Daughter (Dinah) but God only chose 12 Tribes of Jacob/Israel (all sons of Jacob)... likewise, Christ Jesus chose 12 Aposltes, all men... followed only by the discipleship of men and women like Mary Magdalene, Barnabas, etc., AFTER Christ ascended back to Heaven, commanded His Apostle to make DISCIPLES of all Nations...
Christ said, If you LOVE ME, KEEP MY Commandments (John 14:15)... whose commandments?... Moses (O.T.) or Christ (N.T.)?.... God said to the 3 Apostles in the Transfiguration of Christ in the Mountain, "This is my Beloved Son (Christ Jesus) in whom I AM well pleased, LISTEN (obey/follow) to HIM."... to whom do we (Christians) LISTEN only (spiritually)?... to Christ Jesus... Amen...
There are loads of educated women in the world today, even college professors who have taught the pastor in the pulpit, if the person is interesting and well-spoken and loves God and is a good teacher, I think the modern Christian should grow up. When Adam and Even ate the fruit in the garden, the man was right next to the woman when she took the fruit and ate as she handed the fruit to Adam and did he argue? No. He just took it and ate it.
If men wanted to apply this to refusing their wives cooking but that it applies to modern day life, is kind of dim witted. The ones who have rights being taken from them in their world are women. And Christian men are cheering.
I will say this, where were the men on Easter morning when Jesus rose from the dead? The women were going to the tomb and could have met up with Roman guards, were the men even with them to protect them? No, the men were scared. The women were braver than the men were and women had the lovely task of anointing the dead. If women are not supposed to speak, why is their testimony to seeing the Lord even in the Bible?
That's the point : Adam sinned by being passive and not stopping the woman from being deceived he just 'meekly' went along and followed her lead into sin whereas he should have been leading and resisted the Sepent's deception on her behalf and also on his own behalf.
Who did God hold responsible: Adam or Eve?
Who did Paul blame for the fall: Adam or Eve?
That's who is head and carries the leadership responsibility and this also applies in the church
I believe women can prophesy in church but they should not lead..
Far as I can see that's scriptural
Actually the scripture states that after taking of the fruit Eve went and found Adam. She told him what the serpent had said and that she believed him to be bringing this message from Yah. Adam did remind Eve of Yah's warning, but she just like the serpent insisted that Adam just taste the fruit. Truth be known she probably also used some flirting to get Adam to try the fruit. So, he did. He gave in. It was then that Man's eyes were opened and he realized he was naked.
@@skywalker9770 Agreed.
You are against the bible, Anti Christ
@@skywalker9770 Then that women are teaching men in seminaries who are studying to become pastors, that is scriptural too? How many men are deceived not by women who may I’m sure, love God dearly. Here is the thing, Jesus taught that we are to forgive 70 x’s 7. And whereas men wish to be forgiven that much, they do not forgive women. So then you have a man who is so sure that no matter what, that women are in sin, who has not forgiven either, so he is in sin. We are all consigned to sin.
Some are very skilled in the world who are women too such as they best eye surgeon the VA Hospital had who did the cataract surgery for my husband, she was most excellent. But she was taking the job from some man? It takes two incomes to make it most of the time.
I can see why men turn to other men for love, they have so much unforgiveness in their hearts and are full of suspicion. Why did the disciples even run to the tomb when women were the witnesses.
Why do women even go to church? We are hated for no reason at all. Forgiving others only pertains in the man’s mind that he should forgive other men. Women are not to be trusted. You surely cannot trust someone who you do not forgive. And if you do not forgive, and men do not, then the Father does not forgive your sins either.
Nice problem you have. If you think it is a nice problem, I am never so glad to not be male as to be male is to be the biggest hypocrite to walk the Earth.
Drive all the women out of the church, yes, do that. 75% of those sitting in the churches are women and they run everything from counting the tithe and are not allowed in most cases to even be seen distributing the offering.
Women have the right to clean the toilet.
We should not add our own interpretation of St. Paul's Epistle to the Corinthians (1 Corin, 14:34)... St. Paul did not give Rules, Agenda, or Pre-qualification for women who can be SILENT in the Church... NONE... All Women who claim to be Christians who love Christ Jesus must abide and obey God's WILL, to be SILENT in the Church, no question ASK... St. Paul who was taken by God in the 3rd Heaven through his Vision, and fully guided by the Holy Spirit will not instruct this restriction for women from his own will or thought... It comes from God...
Therefore, any Christian Woman who loves Christ Jesus regardless of whether they are qualified or not to teach, and preach, must/should abide by God's will without any reservation...
For example, Catholic Nuns, even though they are all qualified to teach and preach like Priests/Pastors for NUNS have studied the Bible most of their lives in the convent, but still abide by God's WILL through St., Paul's Epistle... as a SIGN of their modesty, humbleness, and total submission to the Authority of the Church of God thru Christ Jesus... Amen.
Christ Jesus commanded His Apostles/Disciples (All men) to Preach the Gospel and make DISCIPLESHIP of all Nations... Discipleship must/should be done by Men with the Holy Spirit... Christ Jesus did not go to the Christian Women, to Blessed Mary, or Mary Magdalene, and ordered all of them to make DISCIPLESHIP or BAPTIZED... Men were given this TASK by Christ before He ascended back to Heaven... Women should support Men in Preaching and the making of DISCIPLESHIP...
Logically speaking, Jacob has 13 Children (12 Sons and 1 Daughter, Dinah)... God chose only the 12 Tribes of Jacob/Israel... Not Dinah's Tribe... likewise, Christ Jesus only chose all Men (12) Apostles, and no women.
Take Note: The first True Christian believer was Blessed Mary who found favor from God, with full of grace, and knew more Spiritual matters than any of the 12 Apostles, but who kept SILENT in the Church of God in Christ, to set an example to all Christian women... which was how God wants for Christian women to learn modesty and obedience to God... Praise be to God in Christ... Amen.
The women should not wait on tables in the church either. Paul said that it should be godly men filled with the holy Spirit. I'm so happy about that.
Phoebe was a deacon and....
You are bit of there note seeking God the way he want to use them,then a woman like kathryn khulman raise up.
You do know that proverbs is a woman teaching a young adult man, you don't counsel a six year old on matters of sex....
Have you ever studied the word "ezer kenegdo" from gen 2:18, translated "help meet" defined as rescuer savior help, it also has a military application and is only used otherwise in conjunction with the character of God.
The proverbs 31 "virtuous woman" who is self employed, industrious, manager of the entire family and the "maidens" her trainees, feeds the needy, investor, land developer, dressed to the nines, praised and honored by the community leaders not just her family, speaks wisdom and kindness and is a glowing example of biblical womanhood of the old testament but would be considered a feminist by NT standards because she is not barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen with her mouth shut, keeping her place.
How'd this come to be, maybe you have misinterpreted what the NT says cause God's word doesn't contradict itself.
I have always been very happy that i as a woman can’t be asked to preach👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Same! 👍🏼😊
Of course that is completely fine if you are not called to preach, or that is not where your strengths lie. But what of those who do have those strengths? God would not endow a person with such gifts if they were not meant to be used.
@@cnidarianAnd how do you measure those "strengths"? One's so called gift can also be a curse. Would God approve if someone who is a narcissist knows how to manipulate a conversation and scam people out of their money? He certainly can make a company and the economy a lot of money.
The 'be quiet' does not mean shut your mouth. It means 'no your role' and be in the background. Do not take the lead. Pray and prophecy in submission under Biblical male authority.
Can woman prophesy?
Yes corinthians 11:5...But they shouldn't assume spiritual leadership
The 'be quiet' does not mean shut your mouth. It means 'no your role' and be in the background. Do not take the lead. Pray and prophecy in submission under Biblical male authority.
It's entirely possible that Paul was dealing with not one but two issues in Greco-Roman churches with predominately Gentile members. One is what is pointed out in this video but there was another possible issue. In Greco-Roman pagan religion, cult prostitutes had a certain level of power they could wield that a woman who was not a temple prostitute did not have as women were 2nd class citizens in Greco-Roman culture. Men would pay these temple prostitutes money to have sex with them and in so doing it was believed that the prostitute was an oracle of the gods and could be used by the gods to speak to men through them by having sex. While it's abhorrent and disgusting to us, this was a normal practice to Greek and Roman pagans. This appears to have been an issue in both Ephesus and in Corinth; i.e. there were most likely temple prostitutes who were telling Christian men that they could communicate with the "Christ god" if they visited them. Paul rebukes certain Corinthian believers for engaging in this in 1 Corinthians but his instructions in 1st and 2nd Timothy regarding women in the Church probably had something to do with this as well.
Paul does not operate on such principle to do special in one Church, when there is a command from the Lord.
"As in all the Churches of the saints.." That is a theme in 1 Cor.
"But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God"
"For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church."
I.e it is not just here or here and Eph.. It applies to everyone. "For God shows no partiality" is something is wrote many times in other letters.
He has the same commandments from the Lord whatever culture you are from. Remember that he had/were a part of churches all over the Roman world.. Including Jewish, where paganism is not the same. Iow he did not let Culture decide a specific command from the Lord in one Church.
"Romans 14 problems" are different like vegetarianism vs meat, wine or no wine etc. Some cultures/upbringings may have bad conscience about things you don't need to as a Christian, however the strong/more free is to love the weaker/less free so he/she do not damage the conscience. So the strong must not use his freedom in front of a weaker believer.
@@givethanks6714Oh really? Then how come he circumcised Timothy in Acts 16 but told the Galatians that circumcision would not profit them?
@@GTX1123 How does that disprove what I said?
It was most likely a strategy to win more Jews - a hinderance they have a strong relationship to (circumcision on the flesh) - See 1 Cor 9:20
He would teach them what he meant later, as fex per Galatians and 1 Cor 7:17-19 etc.
Where Paul again said " Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches. " Rule in All the Churches..
@@givethanks6714 Seriously? You don't get it? When it came to circumcision there were two different expectations so "as in ALL the Churches of the saints" could not apply - whereas it was expected that Jews would continue to live as Jews albeit now putting their faith and trust in Yeshua as the ultimate fulfillment for atonement, no such requirement was made of Gentiles except what stated in Acts 21:25
@@GTX1123 Living as a Jew, was because for their zealousness for the Law and some of such people wanting to force that on others, aka letter to the Galatians.
Does not mean they do so and others do so, by a command from God. Where does the Holy Spirit and the Apostles say that Messianic Jews needs/must live as a "Jewish follower of Moses that found Jesus"? Christianity came out of the OT and Jews. Jews had to unlearn both traditions and certain things the Law had only for a time. It was a tension and Was a transition.
However, Paul, the man we actually talk about and one of the men with most revelation has his rules in all the Churches that are equal for all.
Why won't you acknowledge all the
clear verses, you look for a way out, and you will find it when your heart wants it.
Everybody can make things seem the bible say this and that. That is why we need foundations that are safe to build on. Clear things. If you fear God you know what I mean.
Take the Rapture. Pre tribbers never have any solid foundation to build their doctrine on, it on straws.
But a Post tribber can use many clear things as a foundation and certainly that is what makes sense to follow (if you had to choose one or the other)
How come Jesus never picked any women disciples?
Mary magadel?
@@dagmawitadesse5193 She was a believer and a supporter of Jesus in his ministry...but she was not picked as one of the twelve.
Whether or not one thinks that the restriction on women passages in the New Testament are applicable today is irrelevant regarding salvation. One’s salvation isn’t dependent upon this issue, at all. Paul also taught that slaves should obey their masters, and that one should respect their government. I disagree vehemently with both of those.
I do agree that men are the head of women and women aren’t to hold any authority or teaching positions over men in the church. However, prophecy from what I understand is a foretelling of the future, a prediction they know will be true. I don’t believe that goes in the teaching column. But as I always say, Lord forgive me if I’m wrong here! Let us always pray to God for the truth we seek
Well the meaning of prophecy is an inspired utterance from God. So teaching/preaching are all forms of prophecy because he message that you have received came directly from God. So if women can “Prophecy” then women can teach and preach.
In order to deliver a prophecy that person must know and understand scripture and the reason why is because God speaks directly from his own word(The Bible) so when a person is prophesying they speak what the Lord has revealed to them to the listener but all prophecy must correlate and be found in scripture, so that person gives the prophecy but also goes must go back and explain the specific passages of scripture where that prophecy is associated with which requires teaching. All prophecy must be judged by scripture. Prophecy without interpretation will fail and not be understood or believed.
@@cjay7576 yea that’s not the meaning of prophecy otherwise anyone who reads the Bible and shares it would be called a prophet lol. We have clear examples of prophets in the Bible, they heard from God directly and communicated the message he wanted them to share. Teaching Gods already revealed word is not prophecy.
@@ZandJ12345 You don’t need have to be a prophet to prophecy, anyone who is filled with Holy Spirit can.
@@ZandJ12345 Please study about Sarah, Miriam, Deborah, Hannah, Huldah, Abigail, and Esther. God Bless💪🏾
U use the same verse that John MacArthur and Allen Parr who both got different interpretations. Everyone using the same verse but saying something different so I say this …. Like me people read the Word for yourself like they did, pray and ask God for help to understand, do your research by reading and watching TH-cam videos like this, and at the end of the day pick a side and go with it and be able to explain it . I would also let people know when explaining your thoughts that base on your study of the scripture you have came to this conclusion in interpretation because there is only one interpretation and only one knows what it really says.
Some women were above teachers, as the scripture says.
So women could speak. One has to look at the totality of
scripture, including the woman in the Old Testament that
was over the army of Israel, by God's will.
Whatever he said here is true, women should generally stay silent in church and never preach over men, the Bible is clear about this. I used to support women too being too liberal but now I changed my mind and realized the truth. And Timothy explains it very well why women should not preach over men. Wherever women will try to preach over men, evil spirits of the Serpent will come and tempt people, because it is totally against the design of God, I have practically seen this that women when they exercise authority over men cause all the drama and temptation. The Bible says this for a valid reason.
she can preach to every man or woman about Christ but not teaching. Teaching reserve for Man. Preaching the Gospel is not overpower to men but If she try to dominants over man by teaching. that is forbid,
Jesus never say teach the Gospel but Preach the Gospel.
for a women to preach is ok. but not teaching over man
Que l'on fasse attention à nos analyses Dieu est souverain et utilise qui il veut.malgre le fait que Dieu a mis l'homme au dessus de la femme,il a utilisé Déborah lorsque les hommes n'étaient pas prêt et il dit qu'il est capable d'utiliser les pierres s'il le faut.les âmes périssent et vous êtes là à discuter sur qui Dieu peu ou pas utiliser.sortez tous de vos zones de confort et aller hors de l'église évangéliser car la moisson est grande et les ouvriers peu nombreux
Google translation:
Let us be careful with our analyses. God is sovereign and uses whoever he wants. Despite the fact that God put man above woman, he used Deborah when men were not ready and he says that 'he is able to use the stones if necessary. the souls are perishing and you are there discussing who God uses little or not. Everyone get out of your comfort zones and go outside the church to evangelize because the harvest is large and the workers are few in number
I wrote a short and free essay on Deborah, should you wish a study.
Amen, tout a fait d'accord ! Et pourtant quand on voit les églises elles sont toujours remplies la plupart du temps par des femmes, et en gros on limite les femmes dans tout, Seigneur 🤦🏾♀️
Short answer: the Bible portrays women as secondary citizens, and it isn't in keeping with today's more enlightened views. That's why people are leaving religion in droves.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
why you want to twist the word of God. If the word of God says, women be silent in church, they should keep quit in church. NO MORE ARGUMENTS
I am a woman and I will not join a church that has a woman pastor. My choice of course. Women can teach in a Sunday school class or help someone with Bible reading…
I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin.
Complementarianism is a false doctrine that is in opposition to what God actually did.
God appointed a woman as a Judge over Israel.
There was no gender qualification to be a Judge, in the scriptures.
what happened to God does not make exceptions of persons. jew, slave Greek etc. my friend did not allow his wife to speak in church. however, she sold shoes 👞 at the local Dillard's. she was allowed to smell dirty man's feet. he belittled her to the max.
i hope she divorced him.; and WHY is he your friend? I wd not have a friend like that.
I think God told them not to speak so we can get some peace and quiet.
We have respected your answers on most of your videos until now. You are only half right on this topic. You have to also have knowledge of the time & land to be able to interpret the meaning of their speeches. Please reference the study of Paul by author N.T. Wright. Pray for clarification & knowledge then redo the answer to this question. God Bless you.
This topic is becoming more and more touchy. The thing is the Word Of God isn't influenced by time and culture. And when you read it you shouldn't bend the world into the culture, Instead bend the culture into the word
The word of God is unchanging, for God is not a man to change his words, First Epistle of Peter 1 chapter 25 verse: "but the word of the Lord endures forever; and this is the word that was preached to you," and "God is not a man to lie, and not the son of man, that he should change: shall he speak, and not do, shall he speak, and not do?" (Numbers 23:19). And also Deuteronomy 4 chapter 2 verse: "Do not add to what I command you, and do not subtract from it; keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." Matthew 24 chapter 35 verse: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away." Revelation of John 22 chapter 18-19 verse: “And I also testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds anything to them, God will put on him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the book of prophecy this, God will take away his share in the book of life and in the holy city and in what is written in this book. To the Galatians 1 chapter 8 verse: "But even if we or an angel from heaven began to preach to you not what we preached to you, let it be anathema", so the Bible is not reformed to modern realities, for the New Testament is a rephoration, which will be valid until the Day of judgment.
Like all anti women folk, you never talk of Romans 16. You cherry pick your scripture in an attempt to justify your prejudice. The fact that Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12 and Romans 16 indicates he was not giving a generic command but specific ones. Remember one church had a problem with circumcision, another church had a problem with idolatry, etc. Here Paul is clearly saying in THIS church women should stay silent, but in THAT church women should lead and be worthy of being followed. For scripture does not contradict. It is impossible to lead and stay silent.
I am soo excited about this! I have to call my pastor and tell him I am no longer allowed to teach the children, sing on stage, be an usher or really anything that requires me to speak. Instead I get to drop off my three toddlers to the new male teachers and go into the sanctuary and not be asked to do anything as I cannot speak so the full burden of every position must be fulfilled by a man. Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord! Oh my gosh how freeing that my one and only responsibility will be to be quiet and worship the Lord for the 2+ hours I go to church every Sunday. No responsibility but to be silent and worship..yes please. I would RUN to church every morning if what was being spoken here was followed to the letter. Imagine 2 plus hours every week where I sit silent in the back of the church worshiping and hearing from my Jesus with absolutely no responsibility and not a thing to worry about but to do so, allowing the men to carry the burden of the serimonies. Yes please! But alas. Most pastors want to say be silent unless it's inconvenient for them or they cant find godly men to step in and do it..childcare/youth minstry, ushering, greeting, choir..etc. So to me this scripture and the way its presented is awesome for me! No more hours pouring over children's church curriculum. No more mid week and early Sunday morning band/choir practice, no more staying at church afterwards praying for everyone at the alters. Nope I will remain silent and go home and ask my husband how it went. I am free!! I am not sure where that puts Priscilla or the lady who had a church in her home that John wrote to...but selah, selah I am free!
HaHa, I really appreciate your comment. I'd suggest you remove Pauls comments on his views towards women, and rely on Jesus our savior. Jesus brings us truth and treated women just as he did the men. Women were healed just as the men in examples of the gospels according to their faith. For the last few years I've been a critic of the Pauliine letters. Paul can write some beautiful words, but his is just a person that got some issues wrong. I also find it interesting how his letters are considered scripture when I can only find one verse where he comes close to quoting the words of Jesus. Just me, and thanks for the entertaining comment. LOVE IT!
It is a miracle your husband and you are not divorced yet with the mouth you have. I myself rule and have complete authority over my wife . And because of that she has perfect peace and rest not to mention joy knowing my head is Christ. You are more caught up in Church religious activities than being taught the Word of God. Let me give you your first bible study lesson. Genesis 3:16 New Living Translation Then he said to the woman, “I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy,
and in pain you will give birth.
And you will desire to control your husband,
but he will rule over you.
.
16
@@TheShutterbug1968 Quit rejecting scripture to fit cultural norms.
@@boltskyline2957 I’m just following the examples of Jesus. You go ahead and follow Paul.
@@TheShutterbug1968 No, you're rejecting Jesus to cater to the feelings of women and homosexuals
Do you know that verse was of Paul’s opinion and not of Gods commands 🤔 1corin…..too say these women who were filled with the Holy Spirit resulting in the gifts of tongue….are we saying God should keep quiet or that God was wrong too give this got too these women….we’re all questions I asked my self when reading
2 Peter 1:21 "For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit"
It is not Paul opinion, but God opinion through Paul. Paul said nothing new because woman silence was implied in the penance of the ancestor Eve, Paul just clarified.
1 Corinthians 14:37 "If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the LORD’S COMMAND"
No. They don't have to marry homosexuals, either.
Halfway I was hopeful, but wow. So dumb. My catholic school is led by a bunch of sisters and nuns. Many girls are the ones who read and whatever. But it's only the men's role to bring the word of god to the entire congregation. Lmao okay I'm like fully agnostic now I can't believe it's so hard to see people as humans and not separate them like that
One question… can a man learn from a woman? Case closed!!!
So women should not sing.
전형적인 남성위주 보수 기독교의 해석이구만. 당시 고린도 교회의 사회 문화적 측면을 더 진지하게 관찰해야한다. 그러면 섣불리 이런 문자적 해석을 할수 없다. 성경가르친다고 컨텐츠 열심히 만들고 자리잡은 자들이여 좀 더 공부하시길
And what if she doesn't want to keep silent?
In 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, Paul wrote: “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. Also, 1 Peter 2:18 says "You who are slaves must submit to your masters with all respect. Do what they tell you-not only if they are kind and reasonable, but even if they are cruel."
Let's remember Paul is a person who wrote some letters and does not have the authority we have of Jesus. As Paul states women should be quiet per the LAW. Where is this law? As for the curse in Genesis with Eve, she was to be ruled by her husband. It says nothing of her teaching or being in submission to all men, but just her husband. Paul is quite clear on his own views of women, in which I do not follow. We are all "MANKIND", and when a man leaves his parents he will cleave to his wife and become
"ONE FLESH". Jesus didn't distinguish by gender but my faith, belief and obedience. The woman at the well, the woman compared to dogs eating crumbs, Mary and Martha sisters etc. Remember the disciples were amazed Jesus spoke to a woman. Jesus is the way the truth and the life. Let's not get too excited about Pauls words on this. Let's follow Jesus example and understand everybody is either an enemy of God or a repentant sinner following Jesus.
This crafty woman's words are how America (one nation under God) got a Lesbian spokes person for the President , Nancy Polosi for speaker of the house and government full of women that support abortion in Power. Her mouth is the gate way to hell.
2 Peter 1:21 "For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit"
It is not Paul opinion, but God opinion through Paul. Paul said nothing new because woman silence was implied in the penance of the ancestor Eve, Paul just clarified.
@@user-ll3ec5st4q no Paul is what Paul says. Some words beautiful and others completely contrary to Jesus.
@@TheShutterbug1968 1 Corithians 14:37
"If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command"
Paul words is not Paul command, but God commandement.
@@user-ll3ec5st4q excuse me...Paul wrote that.
I’m not convinced on the praying and prophesying part being used to say that women can speak in church. Women should be silent in church. The praying and prophesying passage is not dealing with the gathering of the church to break bread. Women can pray and phrophecy outside of the church meeting but in church women are to be silent. 1 Corinthians 14 is pretty clear on that. Also for most of the history of the church they saw 1Cor 11 and 1Cor 14 as two different context. 1Cor 14 is dealing with the gathering of the church, 1Cor 11 up to verse 17 is not.
1 Corinthians 11:5 (AMP): 5 And any woman who [publicly] prays or prophesies (teaches, refutes, reproves, admonishes, or comforts) when she is bareheaded dishonors her head (her husband); it is the same as [if her head were] shaved.
Please stop adding to the scriptures, this is all the same letter to the same people in the church in Corinth, the verse above is referring to during a church service. Please read full chapter for full context. Approach the scriptures for what it says not with an pre- conceive notion. Why would Paul say women can prophecy and then later on tell them to be silent in the church? Are you saying that Paul was contradicting himself? Do you believe he was talking to a church of Corinth 2.0? Paul is talking to the same people he was talking to in chapter 11 in 14, and so on. The only way you’ll fully understand why Paul said what he said, is considering CULTURAL CONTEXT. Keep studying! Grace!
@@cjay7576 just before the head covering passage He is writing about how to conduct themselves at an unbelievers house for dinner…. Clearly he’s not talking about the gathering of the church. Then he proceeds to talk about head coverings. He doesn’t start talking about the gathering of church to verse 17, “for first of all” that’s a new subject. You need to read these verses in context. Paul is clear, women are to be silent in church, they are not permitted to speak, it is shameful for women to speak in church and if they have questions they can ask their husbands at home. It doesn’t get clearer than that, clearly women are Not praying and prophesying on church otherwise they would be going against Gods commandments. You are trying to explain away the clear meaning of scripture, because you don’t like what it says like most in Christianity when it comes to this passage. Your using a passage out of context to explain away the passage you don’t like.
@@cjay7576 and btw if you look at the historical understanding of these verses they saw it the same. They saw the head covering passage as a different context to the women being silent in church passage. It’s not until modern day Christianity that people started trying to say they are the same context. I’m not the one who has the contradiction, you are. Because your trying to say women can speak in church when Paul clearly said they can’t.
I am soo excited about this! I have to call my pastor and tell him I am no longer allowed to teach the children, sing on stage, be an usher or really anything that requires me to speak. Instead I get to drop off my three toddlers to the new male teachers and go into the sanctuary and not be asked to do anything as I cannot speak so the full burden of every position must be fulfilled by a man. Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord! Oh my gosh how freeing that my one and only responsibility will be to be quiet and worship the Lord for the 2+ hours I go to church every Sunday. No responsibility but to be silent and worship..yes please. I would RUN to church every morning if what was being spoken here was followed to the letter. Imagine 2 plus hours every week where I sit silent in the back of the church worshiping and hearing from my Jesus with absolutely no responsibility and not a thing to worry about but to do so, allowing the men to carry the burden of the serimonies. Yes please! But alas. Most pastors want to say be silent unless it's inconvenient for them or they cant find godly men to step in and do it..childcare/youth minstry, ushering, greeting, choir..etc. So to me this scripture and the way its presented is awesome for me! No more hours pouring over children's church curriculum. No more mid week and early Sunday morning band/choir practice, no more staying at church afterwards praying for everyone at the alters. Nope I will remain silent and go home and ask my husband how it went. I am free!! I am not sure where that puts Priscilla or the lady who had a church in her home that John wrote to...but selah, selah I am free!
@@MeHeidiE you have plenty of time all week to serve God, to teach, to sing songs, pray…. Your argumentation seems a bit emotional to be honest. The gathering of the Church is a very small part of the week. And scripture is clear that in the context of church, women are to be silent. I mean, that’s what it literally says, now of course that’s hard to accept today especially, with the rise of feminism. In fact it seems it was hard in Paul’s day too as you can see after he gives these commandments. At the end of the day you can chose to ignore these commandments and worship God on your terms but then is it really worship? I don’t know how people can read these scriptures and then ignore them or try to explain them away the way they do and still be ok in their conscience. You will find no examples in the Bible of Women speaking in the context of the Lords supper (Church). The examples you mention do not fit this context.
Absolutely, because of Eve and praying and prophesying of women are silent and only shared with other women outside the church...Moses
This is total BS. Women, don't listen to Paul.
This is sad 😞 I hate this video so much
Women can teach at a church. God gives both genders authority to do so.
Ok but where in the bible does it say so? Like genuinely can u show me?
@@leroydsa930
Women are apart of the fivefold ministries which is the headship within the body of Christ. Women have authority in their position. But women do not have spiritual authority over men.
Ephesians 4:11-12, NLT) Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.
My favorite prophetess is Anna
Luke 2:35-40
35 so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too.”
36 There was also a prophet, Anna, the daughter of Penuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage, 37 and then was a widow until she was eighty-four.[a] She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. 38 Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.
39 When Joseph and Mary had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee to their own town of Nazareth. 40 And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him.
So God didn’t think much of women, did he?
On the contrary, He thinks as much of them as He does of men. However, when the believer's assemble for the express purpose of having "church" they are not permitted to teach. In regards to the laws that The Lord has laid down for the churches of God to obey it goes on to say, "If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored." 1 Corinthians 14:37,38
They are servants but equal.
@@supportsniper4626 Equal to God in importance...absolutely. As far as being servants...we must consider all people better than ourselves, including women. However, there is an authority that men have over women that they do not have over us! The Lord has said, "But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." 1 Corinthians 11:3
@@silencenewberry1127 Yep 100%. They are meant to serve men and look what happens to the world when they don't.
it's kinda silly because all are supposed to be equal in gods eyes and believers are the "bride" of Jesus , so its weird that they even wrote this.
MHO Paul was an asshole and people shouldn't follow him, just Jesus. I see Paul as a Kenneth Coupland type of character.
Outdated Interpretations that continue to push our youth away from Christianity...
What makes it outdated? Gods word is Gods word. If you can point to scripture that echoes this we can all learn from it
They should remain silent all the time 😂
Basically, women can't make it into heaven. Got it. Thanks
What? That’s literally not what’s being said
Lol wow. You are extremely confused
Stretch next time before that reach, because nowhere he said what you made up.
It may sound that way when some people take scripture out of context and don't consider the culture to which it was written for. Jesus said that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. No one can get into Heaven except through One Door, and His name is Jesus.
Having said that, I can understand your frustration. I really can. Any time you have religion and no intimacy with Holy Spirit, this is what you get - legalism and the letter of the law, which always leads to bondage, not freedom in Christ.
I see you're listening to the serpent like Eve did. You're proving the point.
Amen