Brillient! Finally, someone who's given us an interesting and informative video that is 100% accurate. I'm an engineer who repairs vintage RCA ribbon mics on the side and I have a special box that allows me to change the impedance loading and without going into detail it can make a difference. However, this guy deserves a standing ovation as he's giving us what we need. And yes, impedance is frequency dependent, so all you can do is "compromise to optimize" He's also the first guy who did a great job explaining the 600 ohm history in broadcasting versus some of the nonsense you can get on the web. I also LOVE his comment "Trust Your Ears." I agree, I am an old fart and go back to analog tape before ProTools and you did not have screens with frequency response to show what you are doing to the signal. Too many people mix with their eyes, not their ears. Well done sir! My hat's off to you and thank you for making this incredible video.
Wow, im really humbled by this comment. I really appreciate the time to check out the video and leave this amazing comment. If you dont mind me asking, i recently got an american dr330 and needs re-ribboning. I have some 1.4u stock and am having a tough time finding ribbon material. If you wouldnt mind hitting me up via my website, id love to chat about this. Again, thanks so much for this comment. Made my week!
I can talk ribbon mics all day. Will send you a note via your website. But I have to say, 1.4u thick stock? Dude, that is thinner than thin. Industry standard is 2.5u (set by RCA) and cheap Chinese ribbon mics use 5u or 7u. 1.4u (which is why reribboning a cheap MXR can be a wonderful investment) 1.4u is almost impossible to work with and can blow with a fly fart. LOL We will talk, it is all about compromise, right? Will send a note via your wonderful website. Nice mic locker!
Oh, sorry for the verbal diarrhea, love the topic. I have an American DR330 I bought from my ribbon mentor, Clarence Kane of ENAK. Aesthetically I think they are a work of Art Deco magic.
@@curtvincent3728 Ive worked with .5u ribbon material. need to wear a mask while installing it as the slightest breeze will destroy it. Got your msg and replied. Thanks again!
Thanks for watching, this is a hard one to sit through! But, if you're not familiar with all of this, can really help finding why something isn't sounding quite right, and also helps to get the most out of your mics.
Thanks for watching. This is a really complex topic and can go way deeper than what I did here. Tried to keep this on more of a practical level than a lab test level.
@@meistudiony I recently picked-up an old high-impedance Japanese ribbon mic rated at 30k Ohms, which is totally uncharted territory for me. This was informative and helpful.
@@ThemFuzzyMonsters in that situation getting an inline impedance converter can make that mic work with modern preamps. Hosa MIT-129 1/4" TS to XLR3M Impedance Transformer a.co/d/6tjCqDS Something like that but, depends on the type of connector the mic has. We have a couple hiz mics, like the shure green bullet, we use these to plug into our lo-z pres. Works great.
I always wondered what XLR stood for (if anything). One of those things I've never looked up. Thanks for enlightening me! I'm new to the channel, I think I just struck gold! Thanks for the quality material.
Thanks so much for watching! Im new to this too (the whole making video thing that is). Glad you got something from the video! Any questions feel free to hit me up!
I appreciate the information in this well done video. Having been a UA Apollo owner for many years, I've come to the conclusion that the variable *_impedance modeling_* in their Unison preamps does little more than affect relative gain staging. That is, I can use a 600 ohm mic into a 1073 Unison plug-in and a 200 ohm mic into the same 1073 plug-in and they will, after compensating for the small relative gain differences, sound identical. While there may be some minor differences in the very low frequencies, I typically have these frequencies rolled off with a LC filter anyway. My ears simply can't detect the differences in sound based on differences in mic impedance. On a related issue, this subject has become of more interest now that I've purchased a UA Sphere LX microphone and have begin experimenting with its different models. The Sphere is a fixed, 200 ohm (@ 1kHz), dual capsule mic. Its raw, 200 ohm input signal is coming into the Unison preamp and met with whatever Z the current plug-in has configured. The mic modeling only happens post Unison AD conversion AND post Unison plug-in modeling. If the above discussion regarding impedance vs sound holds true, then the Sphere's post-Unison sonic modeling should hold up reasonably regardless of the Unison plug-in's Z setting. Of course I'm assuming that other aspects of the mic model (i.e. pickup pattern, axis, etc.) are purely a mathematical function of the dual capsules and have little to do with the signal at any given moment. But I may be wrong on that.
From what i've seen / heard in experimenting (still) with impedance, the biggest difference i find is ONLY in the top end. The lower the load, the more the top end will get rolled, the higher the load, the more top end presents. The sphere is a very nice mic (we have the Townsend version, from before UA took it over.... same mic). But yes, the software isn't taking impedance of the original mic into consideration nor is it able to compensate for how a dynamic mic will react to the shift in load at the preamp. Its an approximation and one that in the scope of things, doesn't really matter much in the context of a mix. The function of the dual capsule is to be able to approximate the polar patter of the various mic models (very few mics have perfect cardioid patterns). The two diaphragms are mixed to create the pickup patterns (the same as is done on many mics that have multiple patterns). The impedance in that regard has nothing to do with that as long as the back and front are matched while its doing its thing. The worst that would happen if theyre not, is your pattern would get a little janky and the frequency response might be a little more off than expected. The other issue is that they're trying to emulate the response of a dynamic mic (depending on the model) with a condenser capsule... again, its an approximation, and a damn good one at that, but its never going to be EXACT... and it honestly doenst need to be, its close enough for rock n roll.
@@meistudiony Agreed. The Sphere/L22 emulation is not perfect but it's very, very good. What small misses exist in the emulation are greatly overshadowed by all the other variables in the chain.
It's been my experience that some microphones change more with preamp impedance changes than others. For example, if you did this same test with a Coles 4038 instead of a Royer, especially a lower impedance version, changing the impedance it sees can have a more drastic effect. Also, the XLR name came from Cannon Electric which described it as X - series name - Latching-Resilient. Sorry to "but axchually" this, just trying to be helpful to those looking for the information.
Yes, i went over all the cannon stuff in a later video, all good! I like when people bring stuff to the table! Keep it coming! The mic itself definitely plays a part in the tonal shift from the mic pre impedance. And you're exactly right. Since the mic itself isnt a "static" source (depending on the frequencies its picking up it changes, which is why a mics impedance is calculated usually at JUST 1k). Ribbons and other dynamics are especially prone to this. I have noticed that older designs (like the coles and RCA mics) seem to shift more than say the Royer 121 or R10.
I came here because i wondered what is best for a mic with 40 Ohm impedance. I think I should set the pre-amp to low-Z. The pre-amp definitely has louder output when I set low-Z on
Kick A!! Video; great explanation… question, I have a Tf51 mic rated 300 ohms with a BAE 1028 pre 300 - 1200 ohms ; which should I buy a cloud Z or AEA mic pre ?… I would highly appreciate your expertise
At 300ohms on the mic the BAE pre in 1200 mode will work fine with it and probably sound amazing. The cloud z wont pass along phantom power to that mic, which it needs. The AEA pre really excels with dynamic and ribbon mics but does still sound good on condensers. Honestly though… i think youre golden w the BAE.
@@meistudiony The mic is a telefunken tf51; it’s a tube mic that provides its own power so would a cloud Z work as far as impedance matching ?… I’m trying to have impedance 10x the 300 ohms of the microphone. So, would cloud z be any good in my situation ?
Everything in these tests were low Z balanced connections. I have a few HI-Z (unbalanced) mics here in the studio that I was going to try an compare, but, I don't have any useful Hi-Z mic pres to test with effectively. (I do have a couple but definitely NOT something I would want to claim as "pro" audio). There are so few situations now a days that call for hi-z (harmonica mic into a guitar amp is one of the only ones i can think of for studio purposes).
![เปิดบ้าน โคตรสวย ป๋องกพล รู้จักตั้งนาน เพิ่งรู้ว่ารวย!!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tmgCF_2HfYI/mqdefault.jpg)
Brillient! Finally, someone who's given us an interesting and informative video that is 100% accurate. I'm an engineer who repairs vintage RCA ribbon mics on the side and I have a special box that allows me to change the impedance loading and without going into detail it can make a difference. However, this guy deserves a standing ovation as he's giving us what we need. And yes, impedance is frequency dependent, so all you can do is "compromise to optimize" He's also the first guy who did a great job explaining the 600 ohm history in broadcasting versus some of the nonsense you can get on the web. I also LOVE his comment "Trust Your Ears." I agree, I am an old fart and go back to analog tape before ProTools and you did not have screens with frequency response to show what you are doing to the signal. Too many people mix with their eyes, not their ears. Well done sir! My hat's off to you and thank you for making this incredible video.
Wow, im really humbled by this comment. I really appreciate the time to check out the video and leave this amazing comment.
If you dont mind me asking, i recently got an american dr330 and needs re-ribboning. I have some 1.4u stock and am having a tough time finding ribbon material. If you wouldnt mind hitting me up via my website, id love to chat about this. Again, thanks so much for this comment. Made my week!
I can talk ribbon mics all day. Will send you a note via your website. But I have to say, 1.4u thick stock? Dude, that is thinner than thin. Industry standard is 2.5u (set by RCA) and cheap Chinese ribbon mics use 5u or 7u. 1.4u (which is why reribboning a cheap MXR can be a wonderful investment) 1.4u is almost impossible to work with and can blow with a fly fart. LOL We will talk, it is all about compromise, right? Will send a note via your wonderful website. Nice mic locker!
Oh, sorry for the verbal diarrhea, love the topic. I have an American DR330 I bought from my ribbon mentor, Clarence Kane of ENAK. Aesthetically I think they are a work of Art Deco magic.
@@curtvincent3728 Ive worked with .5u ribbon material. need to wear a mask while installing it as the slightest breeze will destroy it. Got your msg and replied. Thanks again!
This is really good stuff my dude. Accurate and really well explained. It’s also nice to see abstract concepts connected to practical results.
Thanks for watching, this is a hard one to sit through! But, if you're not familiar with all of this, can really help finding why something isn't sounding quite right, and also helps to get the most out of your mics.
thanks for this. saved me some time consuming testing, and a bit of money too - respect.
Thanks for checking it out.
man, this is incredibly written - exactly what I was looking for! love electroboom as well!
Thanks for watching. This is a really complex topic and can go way deeper than what I did here. Tried to keep this on more of a practical level than a lab test level.
Nicely done! I love the fact that you actually used data to back up your points.
Thanks for checking it out! Always good to bring receipts when you can. Lol.
Cool video 👍🏻
Thanks for checking it out! Boring topic but some of that info can really help pin point where problems are in a signal chain.
@@meistudiony
I recently picked-up an old high-impedance Japanese ribbon mic rated at 30k Ohms, which is totally uncharted territory for me.
This was informative and helpful.
@@ThemFuzzyMonsters in that situation getting an inline impedance converter can make that mic work with modern preamps.
Hosa MIT-129 1/4" TS to XLR3M Impedance Transformer a.co/d/6tjCqDS
Something like that but, depends on the type of connector the mic has. We have a couple hiz mics, like the shure green bullet, we use these to plug into our lo-z pres. Works great.
Amazing breakdown of the topic with real-world examples!
Thanks! Its one of the most boring topics ever but something that most should be conscious of.
Best video in showing the topic.
Thanks much for checking it out. I know its a dry topic but its really useful to know this if you're working in audio.
I always wondered what XLR stood for (if anything). One of those things I've never looked up. Thanks for enlightening me! I'm new to the channel, I think I just struck gold! Thanks for the quality material.
Thanks so much for watching! Im new to this too (the whole making video thing that is). Glad you got something from the video! Any questions feel free to hit me up!
I appreciate the information in this well done video. Having been a UA Apollo owner for many years, I've come to the conclusion that the variable *_impedance modeling_* in their Unison preamps does little more than affect relative gain staging. That is, I can use a 600 ohm mic into a 1073 Unison plug-in and a 200 ohm mic into the same 1073 plug-in and they will, after compensating for the small relative gain differences, sound identical. While there may be some minor differences in the very low frequencies, I typically have these frequencies rolled off with a LC filter anyway. My ears simply can't detect the differences in sound based on differences in mic impedance.
On a related issue, this subject has become of more interest now that I've purchased a UA Sphere LX microphone and have begin experimenting with its different models. The Sphere is a fixed, 200 ohm (@ 1kHz), dual capsule mic. Its raw, 200 ohm input signal is coming into the Unison preamp and met with whatever Z the current plug-in has configured. The mic modeling only happens post Unison AD conversion AND post Unison plug-in modeling. If the above discussion regarding impedance vs sound holds true, then the Sphere's post-Unison sonic modeling should hold up reasonably regardless of the Unison plug-in's Z setting. Of course I'm assuming that other aspects of the mic model (i.e. pickup pattern, axis, etc.) are purely a mathematical function of the dual capsules and have little to do with the signal at any given moment. But I may be wrong on that.
From what i've seen / heard in experimenting (still) with impedance, the biggest difference i find is ONLY in the top end. The lower the load, the more the top end will get rolled, the higher the load, the more top end presents. The sphere is a very nice mic (we have the Townsend version, from before UA took it over.... same mic). But yes, the software isn't taking impedance of the original mic into consideration nor is it able to compensate for how a dynamic mic will react to the shift in load at the preamp. Its an approximation and one that in the scope of things, doesn't really matter much in the context of a mix. The function of the dual capsule is to be able to approximate the polar patter of the various mic models (very few mics have perfect cardioid patterns). The two diaphragms are mixed to create the pickup patterns (the same as is done on many mics that have multiple patterns). The impedance in that regard has nothing to do with that as long as the back and front are matched while its doing its thing. The worst that would happen if theyre not, is your pattern would get a little janky and the frequency response might be a little more off than expected. The other issue is that they're trying to emulate the response of a dynamic mic (depending on the model) with a condenser capsule... again, its an approximation, and a damn good one at that, but its never going to be EXACT... and it honestly doenst need to be, its close enough for rock n roll.
@@meistudiony Agreed. The Sphere/L22 emulation is not perfect but it's very, very good. What small misses exist in the emulation are greatly overshadowed by all the other variables in the chain.
It's been my experience that some microphones change more with preamp impedance changes than others. For example, if you did this same test with a Coles 4038 instead of a Royer, especially a lower impedance version, changing the impedance it sees can have a more drastic effect. Also, the XLR name came from Cannon Electric which described it as X - series name - Latching-Resilient. Sorry to "but axchually" this, just trying to be helpful to those looking for the information.
Yes, i went over all the cannon stuff in a later video, all good! I like when people bring stuff to the table! Keep it coming!
The mic itself definitely plays a part in the tonal shift from the mic pre impedance. And you're exactly right. Since the mic itself isnt a "static" source (depending on the frequencies its picking up it changes, which is why a mics impedance is calculated usually at JUST 1k). Ribbons and other dynamics are especially prone to this. I have noticed that older designs (like the coles and RCA mics) seem to shift more than say the Royer 121 or R10.
I came here because i wondered what is best for a mic with 40 Ohm impedance. I think I should set the pre-amp to low-Z. The pre-amp definitely has louder output when I set low-Z on
Kick A!! Video; great explanation… question, I have a Tf51 mic rated 300 ohms with a BAE 1028 pre 300 - 1200 ohms ; which should I buy a cloud Z or AEA mic pre ?… I would highly appreciate your expertise
At 300ohms on the mic the BAE pre in 1200 mode will work fine with it and probably sound amazing. The cloud z wont pass along phantom power to that mic, which it needs. The AEA pre really excels with dynamic and ribbon mics but does still sound good on condensers. Honestly though… i think youre golden w the BAE.
@@meistudiony The mic is a telefunken tf51; it’s a tube mic that provides its own power so would a cloud Z work as far as impedance matching ?… I’m trying to have impedance 10x the 300 ohms of the microphone. So, would cloud z be any good in my situation ?
@@Nighthawkclips you might see marginal low end improvement, but probably not enough to justify the cost of the cloud Z.
@@meistudiony thanks… It also should result in a better EIN; lowering the noise floor ?…
Hi!, very interesting!. Just one question, the impedance values in the test, are balanced or unbalanced?
Everything in these tests were low Z balanced connections. I have a few HI-Z (unbalanced) mics here in the studio that I was going to try an compare, but, I don't have any useful Hi-Z mic pres to test with effectively. (I do have a couple but definitely NOT something I would want to claim as "pro" audio). There are so few situations now a days that call for hi-z (harmonica mic into a guitar amp is one of the only ones i can think of for studio purposes).