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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Script: mynameismitche...
On the Way to a Smile Audiobooks: thelifestream....
Pieces of Cloud Strife: • Video
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I feel like a lot of people misunderstand Cloud's character development throughout the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII when they talk about how Advent Children 'ruined' Cloud's character. It's something I've spent a lot of time thinking about, so I decided to make this video.
There's a few things I could have spent more time elaborating on in this video but didn't for the sake of video length. One thing I definitely should have but didn't was these four sequential shots about halfway into Advent Children that draw visual parallels between the imminent danger Denzel and Tifa are in with the other past tragedies.
i.imgur.com/6YkjKGY.gifv
However this time Cloud is able to act. He sweeps Tifa out of danger on Fenrir, and lobs the Fusion blade to kill the monsters around Denzel. This shows us that at this point Cloud has begun confronting his regrets and started his journey to recovery (following on from his discussion about forgiveness with Vincent where he says "I'm gonna try" and walks away with Marlene). And indeed this rings true as he takes more prominent action throughout the rest of the film.
Crisis Core's depiction was completely in-line with the way he acted in VII's true Nibelheim flashback, and in Dirge of Cerberus (as a result of his development in Advent Children) he's back to being more confident in himself. If we estimate about 35 hours to beat VII, 7 hours to beat Crisis Core, 7 hours to beat Dirge, and maybe an hour to read Case of Tifa, then all up this "AC emo Cloud" lasts for only about an hour in a roughly 50 hour series. Heck it doesn't even last the full length of Advent Children. Even if one was to ignore the points I made in the video about how I think Cloud's depression was a natural progression, the amount of time people dedicate to complaining about it is still way overblown for how long it's actually part of his story.
in other news I made this so here u go - th-cam.com/video/XtN-iUZyOVs/w-d-xo.html
I think you should have spent more time on his childhood where he wanted to be close to Tifa and felt rejected when he wasn't and wanted to be strong so Tifa could notice him.
And his dad death, which was why he was less immature then the others.
And also extend a bit on Nibelheim, cause he basically lost his village, his family, and thought he lost Tifa too when he tells sephi "Give them back"
Case of Tifa is so important in my opinion for Cloud's story, since it realistically shows how there are "better days" and "worse days" when dealing with depression and survivor's guilt. He cares deeply for his family, but as he explains to Tifa, "it isn't enough", which is absolutely true. Loving and being loved can HELP with that deep grief, but it doesn't come close to fixing it.
Cloud is the character whom I identify with the most closely. Sure, I'm not a swordsmen who can summon dragons. But I was a soldier and I lost some of my best friends in ways that I've never lived down. Then lost my sister right before leaving the army. Cloud is a guilt-ridden soldier (not SOLDIER) with severe PTSD. In this way, I understand his character perfectly. He's my favorite character because he embodies my own emotional baggage and was even an infantryman just like me. Cloud is one of the most well developed characters in the franchise, even if some people don't see it.
DesertWarriorBoy I didn't know Cloud was a fanboy of Sephiroth when he was young! And his outcast and misfit status makes me relate to him too. I also did show off and get into fights with other kids. I didn't really have friends when I was a kid. I felt alone.
Evelyn L. Until you become a SOLDIER. I mean, soldier. Lol. But seriously, I understand how you feel. I used to get into fights as a kid because I got bullied a lot for being the small and different kid. Even if I lost, I never backed down.
DesertWarriorBoy I was a happy kid back then, but not much anymore. I have a stormy, turbulent disposition and suicidal thoughts.
DesertWarriorBoy. I agree with you man. I see myself in Cloud so much. His story is almost exactly mine too. Forgiving ourselves is that hardest task any person's life. Especially when its related to hurting those closes to us. There's no character in Final Fantasy that can come close to the complexity of Cloud, not even Squall( sorry fans).
I can relate to his childhood, too. No real friends, a fighting showoff. Can't ever get accepted. I love watching how his character develops over his life, and I think that's part of his likeability; he's someone a lot of people can relate to on some level, an imperfect, good willed human being.
I think there was another factor in Cloud's guilt about Zack that people tend to forget about, Cloud's amnesia. Cloud was pretty much an outcast in Nibelheim. Even in the army, he wasn't really close to anyone. Then Zack came along. For the first time in his life, Cloud actually had a friend. Zack, never judged Cloud, or put him down, he respected Cloud's wishes to not reveal his presence to Tifa. Zack looked after Cloud when he was in a catatonic state, and in the end, gave his life for Cloud. In the end, how does Cloud repay Zack for all that, by forgetting he ever even existed. I don't know about you, but I'd definitely feel guilty.
Tony Imotuva yea,if u have played the game clearly,tifa wasnt quite clouds friend
You know there might be a twist with what you said. Maybe he thought to himself "Zack should be alive not me, he died protecting me, he deserved to live!" and then decided to be Zack. We believe Cloud forgot Zack but I think the one he forgot was Cloud himself.
@@anaid098 Agree with this 100%. I am glad there are others who thought this.
@@anaid098 Omg i think you are right!!!!
not only that, cloud’s with aerith! zack must be rolling in his grave
Cloud's struggle to make something of himself and the shame he feels when returning home after not making SOLDIER, then hiding his face from his own mother and Tifa.... That makes me ball my eyes out. I've never encountered a character like that anywhere else and it's a personal thing I relate to so well.
Me as well.
He is literally me
I never saw Cloud as "an emo". I saw a character beating eaten alive by their regret and shame over failing to save the ones they love. Survivors guilt is one of the, if not THE, most painful and hard struggles to get through. Anyone who doesn't understand this, and more so anyone who mocks this, obviously hasn't been through anything even close to what guilty survivors struggle with. Their mockery comes from ignorance and a lack of personal hardship. Because while not everyone who loses someone develops survivors guilt, anyone who loses someone can at least understand it.
@@KitchenWitchery Having grown up with parents with PTSD and having partially suffered from it early in life myself I always clicked with Cloud in "Advent Children".
I love cloud and I relate to him to a certain extent with just one word.
“Hardship” The fact he had to endure these tragic events will still haunt you to this day.
True
People who complain about Cloud being "emo" often forget that he is that way FOR DAMN GOOD REASONS!
they do the same for squall too since the two characters are similar in certain ways.
Yeah
He has literally every reason to be depressed and still managed to push through. I think he's a pretty awesome guy.
No, he's like that for the sake of the mental masturbation of the biggest hack in the industry: Tetsuya Nomura, a guy who doesn't understand nuance or personality. The fandom deems AC and CC as non-canon.
@@larrydiaz7156you’re completely false. Just admit you don’t understand a complex character kid
Cloud too is my favourite character in not just in FFVII, but in the whole franchise.
He's close, maybe third or fourth behind Balthier, Vaan and maybe Tidus
Cloud is burdened by the death of Zack, Aerith, Jessie. The guy is damaged.
Not really jessie, to be honest.
@@rodrigomorales563 yeah especially I don't think Jesse fazed him much in the original
Sephiroth:If you defeat me,then-
Cloud:Shut up wench.I don't want to be a SOLDIER anymore.I just........want to be happy.
@@rodrigomorales563 Yeah, he barely knew her. That seemed to faze Tifa more than him.
@@cayde-6288 they definitely had more time together in the remake though.
I always thought Cloud in Advent Children is one of the better portrayals of PTSD. I've actually met survivors-guilt-ridden soldiers who were never neither alive nor dead after they returned to the painfully banal existence at home. Most took to drink. Some started their own private business and somehow managed to keep challenging themselves and keep distracted.
I love Cloud because he is so flawed. I really love that you took the time to put this video together and explain why he is the way he is. His whole journey is full of loss and gain and happens so fast that he cant really get time to process it all. He also loses memories and is implanted with fake ones, it takes time for someone to sort that stuff out. It is nice to see a protagonist that isn't already the perfect person who never fails and doesnt have room to grow.
Finally! Someone gets it! After running into so many complaints about the Compilation and Cloud it's refreshing to find someone who's willing to accept the Cloud who defeated Sephiroth instead of the Cloud from disk 1.
He's one of my fav protagonists ever. People are used to the "always positive hero who can beat any adversity". Cloud endured so much pain and guilt, over and over again... Of course he is damaged/depressed. Who wouldn't? He is just human and the character development is so accurate.
Cloud is a realistic hero. Someone that better than us can be truly related to soldiers and know them truly well because even if we are strong we arent build of steel. Every of us will always suffer the pain of our regrets, if they depents on us or not.
Cloud by defeating Sephiroth has finally destroyed his emotional trauma and finally apcetted Zack and Aerith's death as losses not caused by his own.
In other worlds, Cloud is an incredible and complex philosophical protagonist. And i like him truly much.
All the more reason I absolutely love Cloud as a character. He's NOT a Gary Stu. He's THE most human of the FF protagonists. He's not the most positive, the strongest, the bravest, etc. He's a kid who wanted to be noticed by his crush and was twisted by Shinra and Hojo, crushed under the weight of his own expectations for himself which were WAY TOO HIGH. Manipulated by the war hero he idolized, tortured by Hojo, left alone for some time until Tifa just happened to find him in an actual daze where it's implied he doesn't even know his name. When Tifa asks if it's really Cloud on the ground, he says "That's right........ I'm Cloud" like he doesn't really know what she's talking about and is just repeating back the name she just said to him.
DESPITE ALL THIS he pushes onwards and manages to save the world time and time again. While fighting off physical pain, mako degradation which made him feel like he never existed in the first place. A literal nobody rose up to action in defense of the things he cherishes. What is it that he cherishes again? Oh yeah. Cloud to Sephiroth before going omnislash V.5 on him; "I pity you. You just don't get it at all. There's not a thing I don't cherish." Actual legend
That's exactly who he is.
Thank you for understanding how deep and complexe Cloud is.
He is truly the most amazing fictional character I know and I love him so much.
I really don't know why people are calling him "Emo" in Advent Children... I have the feeling that they just never tried to understand him.
I mean he can't just erase everything that happened before... Could you do it ?
Advent Children was amazing because we finally get to see Cloud move on and forgive himself.
That last vision when he sees Aerith walking away with Zack was the perfect way to end the story...
AC is where he truly became a hero.
This is why Cloud will forever be my fave FF character. His development is just beautiful.
Someone who had a genuine fear of being alone. FFVII was the perfect example of a game that shows that true strength comes from the ones you love. Cloud embodies exactly that he may have come off as cold at first, but in the end finally relinquishes his fear of loss and instead transforms it into trust.
Even to this day, "Cloud Smiles" makes me well up as much as, if not more than, Aeriths Theme does. For those of us for whom FF7 was a central childhood story and experience, we'll always associate strongly with Cloud and his struggles. Great video. Excuse me, someone here is chopping onions...
I don't care what anyone says, for me Cloud always will be my number one favourite protagonist in a FF game ever.
Some people just don't understand Cloud, he is a very complex character with a lot of mental struggles but even so have a strong feeling to protect the people who he loves.
Cloud and Tifa are my favourite FF couple, and FF VII is one of the few games that I care about all members of the party.
They're not a coup-
Aaaah fuck it.
@@ifjiminhasjamsthenimpopefr2228 They were living together and raising kids together. Like...
That's right!
Well said. 100% agree. Only other FF where I like all members of the party is 8. But nothing can compare to the complexity of Clouds character
@@vocalcalibration8033 no.. he was always living in aerith church during advent children and tifa said that.
oh man !! you made me cry :'( your presentation was so great and emotional... thank you so much for your work...it was awesome...
Cloud Strife I cried too!
Cloud Strife Same As You ^_^
Ha...look who's speaking
I thought you'd comment "Not interested"
(Just kidding XD)
Cloud Strife I love and I like you
Cloud is just not an Emo ‼
Cloud is the super soldier ,
a soldier lost in mind with broken heart …
But Cloud is always
Cloud Strife‼‼
Beautiful.
FF casuals will never understand that this truly is the best FF.
The Legendary Soldier Um 6? 9? 8? 10?
6 is the best Final Fantasy ever, IMO.
We have similar tastes, it seems. 7 and 9, I like about the same too. I also think both are better than 8 and 10 with 8 being above 10.
The story of 6 is much more epic and grand(there is also a huge cast of characters) while 7 feels more smaller and personal. The only drawback to 6 is that the SNES graphic might hold newer fans back from enjoying it as much as they should. If they remade it with today's graphic capabilities though, it would be beyond amazing.
Evelyn L. I love all of the once you listed. I can accept anyone saying they like 6,8,9 or 10 over 10. But shit like ff13 and ff15 hell no.
Divine Aria XD
Call me a filthy causal but I believe this is an extremely close second to XV.
Cloud is my favorite FF character in the series. Not just because 7 was my first game I played in the series, but because Cloud endured so much adversity and pain and still came out through it. He’s an inspiring dude.
People give him a lot of shit for being ‘emo,’ but like you said: it’s ignorant to think that way. Loved this video
When people call cloud emo, that just shows how little those people know about his character.
Great video. Something people forget is that Cloud seeing Denzel about to die easily brought out his inferiority complex, he's already got a fragile mind and feels powerless a lot of the time even though he knows he's strong when it comes to fighting etc. It feels like Nomura wanted us to understand the root cause of Cloud's depression, separating himself not because he hates his family, but likely because he feels like him being around is causing bad things to happen to the people he loves and the fact that he can never do anything to prevent it.
But bleh, a lot of fans never think that far and write him off as being emo in AC lol. He can definitely handle things differently but when you think about it, he has a reason to blame himself in his own mind for each death. Zack having to take care of him when they were on the run, him being able to save Aerith if he had control of his mind/body, Denzel about to die because of a disease made from them saving the planet. FF7 lives up to it's hype, complex story and great characters, written very well.
*Clapping while crying*
You're heaven-sent. Thank you very much. Hopefully others see this video and discovered that Cloud is never an emo, even in AC. (Sometimes I just want to tell them "Have we played the same FFVII?" XD)
I understand him alright. I am just like he was when he was in the village. That weird silent kid that wanted to be included but didn’t know how to. Thought gaining power was the only way to fit in. Impress the people around you.
His story is inspiring
For all those that say Cloud is the most "bland" character in the FF series.
They know nothing about cloud! NOTHING!
He is bland, but in a different sense. He's "bland" because he's trying to find himself after living someone else's life. His story arc deals with overcoming this
I agree...with all that Cloud's been through and what he knows is happening to him in Advent Children, it should be no wonder why he is the way he is! He didn't even brood all that long, people blow it way out of proportion!
Actually, the film did waste a good amount of time padding out his brooding phase. The whole problem with AC is that it's a very confused film, unsure of what it wants to be because SE was trying to juggle between having a fanservicey action flick and a character drama, so they tried to do it both ways, winding with a very cluttered and unfocused story that had integral plot elements (such as Cloud's downward spiral into depression) left out and shoved into supplementary material instead.
darkruler64 people are just upset because their favorite FF character isn't the most popular
I loved this video man. I decided to subscribe to you.
You are right. Cloud is a complex and very humanlike character. I really like him as well and he is one of my all time favorite characters.
You summarised Cloud's journey and struggles very well. Great video.👍👌
I just realized right now how amazing Cloud's character progression along the series, especially now that they made a remake of FFVII. I TRULY LOVE FFVII since I was young.
i come back and rewatch this video fairly often. cloud is one of my favorite characters in fiction and it has always upset me people misunderstand him so much and label him as emo. watching this video and hearing someone so eloquently explain why cloud is such a well written nuanced character always makes me so happy, and the AMV you recommended is such a great example too.
i love this video quite a lot, thank you for making it.
It’s obvious that the people who thinks that he is too *EMO.* Does not know what true pain and suffering truly is. They can’t relate to it, because they can’t imagine themselves being in the same position as he does, they lack empathy. It’s disgusting how these types of people exist in our world. They can’t appreciate the emotions the characters give off, that makes them more human. I guess that’s what you call the difference between mature and immature they can’t understand so they find it uncomfortable and too cringe.
Hey nice one! I understood Cloud depression on AC but i never thought about the matching outfits with Tifa! Hahaha nice one!
I love cloud strife. He is the ff first character that i liked and i still liked him till now. He is not cold he is just a guy that is broken inside..if he is cold then he would not have feel guilty of their deaths. even if he is not the one who kill them but he still blame himself for it. he was supposed to blame it on the killer but he didnt do that..imo he just treasure them so much until he feels that way..he feels that he need to protect them at all costs but they still get killed and he thinks he failed. He put soo much burden on himself he is a selfless person..he care about his comrades more than himself..
One thing I've hardly noticed in People mentioning Clouds Guilt is how much Sephiroph had influenced him in leading To Aeriths death. I had always assumed that the experiments done on Cloud by Hojo to make him another Sephiroph made him vulnerable to Sephirophs wishes and, By meeting Aerith, Not only did he expose her to danger but also set her up to Die.
I'm not saying it was all part of Sephirophs plan, i doubt he had one regarding Aerith. But by meeting Aerith, i feel like Sephiroph had a hand in influencing Cloud to Aid Aerith in her mission to save the world, just so he could ruin all measures to stop him, Kill her after she lead Cloud and him to the places he needed to go, and makes Cloud acquire the black Materia for him.
AS the reverent in AC said "so what if i'm a puppet? one upon a time, you were too!" and that made believe the reason he is so Guilt ridden by Aeriths death is not only was he not able to prevent it, but that he feels he is responsible for it as he was also being manipulated by his mental connection to Sephiroph, which adds onto the guilt and why he wants to be forgiven.
Its not like Zacks death where he was in no condition to help. I can understand the regret and desire to change things, but there was nothing to forgive since Zack was the one responsible for being out-maneuvered.
With Aerith, he wasn't just mentally challenged, but he also feels responsible for being so weak that Sephiroph had used him.
At the very least, i also believe the end of AC is Cloud finally letting go of the guilt and forgiving himself, but also, If your an Aerith Shipper, him moving on from Aerith. personally, i just think its just cloud letting go of guilt since, while i do see the potential for Romance there (if you want it), that ultimately it was more admiration as Aerith was just that special of a person, not to Cloud but in everyone she touched. She could influence and touch peoples hearts in ways no one else could, and that Cloud failed to save her and almost doomed the planet she wanted to save, twice, would just add onto that guilt.
Zack was not outmaneuvered, he was overwhelmed. Shinra had the whole freaking army after him. They're resources are also so vast that they could probably take out even Sephiroth like that.
Perfect. I will probably get hate for this but I will admit, the first time I ever saw Cloud was Kingdom Hearts. I didn't have a chance to play Final Fantasy 7 when I was a kid so it was nice to see this character everyone was talking about. Then I saw him in Advent Children and let me just say I never saw Cloud as an Emo. Even in Kingdom Hearts, I saw him as someone who's been through a lot of fighting and is just sick of it. Someone who wants the fighting to end but it just won't for him. I always get a little mad when someone just calls Cloud Emo, making me wonder how in the world they missed the key part of his character. Though you brought up some really good points in this video and it fits Cloud's character really well. So yeah. Great job with the video.
thank you sir for describing so brilliantly why cloud is my favorite and most relateable fictional character
It wasn't about Cloud's angsting about everything that happened in his life, it was for how long he was moping around for. Cloud was very different in the games. True, people change but seeing him take a turn for the worse after everything I had been through with him made it feel hollow. I understand a lot better now than I used to that it works for the progression of his character. But he didn't need to spend as much of the movie as he did moping around. It brought down a movie that could have been much better.
All he wanted in life was to be a SOLDIER like his hero Sephiroth. He failed to get into SOLDIER, watched his hero destroy his home and kill almost everyone in Nibelheim, including his mother, the survivors were experimented upon by Shinra and left empty husks of who they once were, with the exception of Zack and Cloud, and Tifa, who escaped Shinra's experiments altogether with Zangan. He then witnessed his best friend Zack die and there was nothing he could do to help, built an elaborate lie as a coping mechanism in which he'd been a SOLDIER all along, blew up two Mako reactors, killing a lot of people, failed to save the friends he had made in AVALANCHE as well as stop the plate from falling on Sector 7, nearly killed Aerith himself and then watched Sephiroth kill her, handed Sephiroth the Black Materia and after saving the world from Sephiroth, he lived in a world that no longer needed him or what he aspired to be his entire life and after everything he did, he got Geostigma. His angst is very justified. I understand that, but that didn't mean I wanted to watch Cloud mope around for most of the movie.
I never hated/dislike Cloud (Advent), but this video made me more understand about himself in the events of AC.
I appreciate you explaining why cloud is the way he is in AC, the way people write him off in that movie as just being emo and a reversion of character is such an injustice as to what he’s going through
Thank you for this. There are characters in games and movies that we feel we have similarities with and then there are those that we connect with at a deeper level, Cloud is one of those characters, at least for me.
I know ive grown up when im not looking at Cloud as a badass with an even more badass sword. Instead, he's this weak, flawed, but good hearted guy who does his best to be a hero.
And thats why i appreciate that character even more.
Weak? Dude legit killed Sepiroth and saved the lives of Tifa, Zack and everyone else who survived that night.
I love Cloud so damn much. My colorpoint, blue-eyed kitties Cloud & Strife are just a very small testament to my love for this amazing, multi-faceted character.
Seriously beautiful, dude. Not afraid to admit I started tearing up a couple times. 💕
Well done! Love this! I’ve been reviewing the Play Arts figures as I get them and it’s led to final fantasy 7 binges as that one is still my favorite. I’m tired of him being called emo too. I mean, if you watched your village get burned down, that you couldn’t help your best friend and by being sick may have caused Zack’s death, then the woman he loves, Aerith(Aeris) dies, while he is made immobile is brutal. Oh and the 4 years in the mako chamber. Who wouldn’t be screwed up? At least he saved the world at least two times.
PS: I love that you included On A Way To A Smile. Although I wish they’d make the 1st printing version with Aerith easier to find. It’s like they are trying to erase her from Cloud’s story. The ending of the newer “complete” Blu-ray even removed the parts showing her always watching over him in the credits scene (Original DVD) during that beautiful credits scene. It’s still a great credits scene, but I’d love to know why they removed the shots of her basically watching over him always.
Thank you so much !
Your storytelling got me to tears...
Clouds story is really relatable, from a zero who slowly lost everything including himself to a hero who saved everyone.
And his mother and being unable to protect Tifa at first
This video is beautifully well done. I think I teared up a little, understanding more about Cloud. Seeing him smile makes my heart melt cuz I know how much pain he been through and finally for the last time he "smile" at the end of the movie. That's why I love Cloud as a character.
I think this is well-argued, but I disagree for a couple reasons. Though I will foreground this by saying that I don't think Cloud is "emo" in Advent Children, I did enjoy Advent Children, and Cloud is absolutely my favorite character of all time.
The main reason why I disagree is based on the idea of Cloud not getting the time to properly grieve during the events on FF7. To be clear, I'm not saying that he openly grieves in a moment that is separate from the initial death of Aerith, but that the assertion seems to imply that he is unable to come to terms with it, which is certainly a major point of FF7. In FF7, Cloud has to come to terms with Aerith 'choosing' to die, and has to learn what returning to the Lifestream really means and how it ultimately isn't a loss in the way that he thought it was at the time. And his and the party's eventual optimistic understanding of death is part of the environmental message of FF7: if we harm the planet, we are harming those who have returned there.
So for that reason, I think viewers of Advent Children are somewhat right to feel confused at Cloud's character. Not because he doesn't have the right to grieve per se, because he certainly does, but more because that grief is accompanied with self-blaming. Cloud missing Aerith and Zack, and wishing they hadn't died would be one thing, but guilt doesn't make sense when he has already come to terms with understanding that they haven't really been lost. A more understandable state for Cloud to be in in AC would be if, having come to terms with the nature of death, he has to deal with still not having them around. In that case, he wouldn't blame himself, and would know that death is a natural part of life, but would still have to figure out how to move forward without them. But in Advent Children, it largely comes off as though he has forgotten some of the most important lessons he learned in FF7.
In short, I disagree that FF7 essentially has not completed the arc of Cloud's character, and I think that AC ignored some of his most important development in that game.
The thing is the Compilation as a whole is far more realistic not only on a narrative level but a psychological and emotional one compared to the original. Just as the original FFVII was more grounded and contemporary than the more fantastical medieval previous entries,the Compilation took that to the next logical step,making the characters feel like flesh and blood human beings(Albeit CGI-rendered ones)rather than simply projection fantasies like in The Games. In Real Life,guilt,grief and self-forgiveness are not things that simply happen over night,it`s a process of continually facing your demons and picking yourself up after failing to protect those you love time and time again!My brother-in-law committed suicide by hanging and my big sis has been estranged from my mother and I since then!
Thank you for the informative talk while still managing to keep it short. I don't understand people who say this is emo. As someone who's experienced trauma, I understand a bit why Cloud was not staying around Tifa but at the same time keeping his phone.
5 minutes in.... and I am amazed how well this is put together. Well done!
Cloud had mako-induced paranoid schizophrenia. Recovering from a mental illness, the threat of Sepiroth, the loss of Aerith, Zach and his job at Shinra is a clear recipe for depression. The story of Cloud is a story of the strength of his spirit while carrying tremendous burdens.
You forgot that the Jenova cells also helped enhance his strength and helped to solidfy his fantasies about being in SOLDIER. He wasn't just ignoring the truth or hiding it, he actually believed he was in SOLDIER. His memories combined with Jenova's cells made it absolutely real to him. We are shown glimpses of his subconscious breaking through this barrier of belief throughout 7.
But yeah, you nailed it :D
In Tifa’s short novela, after FF7 and before Geostigma, there was actually a short period of time when Cloud actually had a peaceful life, where he had normal family life, had a delivery job and a hobby (fixing his bike), and he was even beginning to make connections with people through his delivery service. When he got Geostigma, everything was yet again taken away, Tifa said he gave up, in only two years after the big fight he’s lost again. I cried so hard in AC when he said to Marlene that he will step up and protect his loved ones this time. It’s actually a beautiful story. Your BGM made me cry like a baby too because I’ve watched AC maybe 50+ times by now, a lot of people just don’t understand Cloud like his friends do I guess.
Well said, I have to admit I personally never really understood all this until these past few months, where I've been revisiting FFVII again and again in my head in preparation for the remake. I now finally feel like I understand FFVII.
OH MY GOD THANK YOU SO MUCH. I HAVE BEEN TELLING PEOPLE FOR YEARS THAT CLOUD ISN'T EMO. You, sir, have articulated it so well more than I could. Thank you thank you thank you, thousands of thank you.
AC Cloud was traumatized, depressed and literally DYING. I can believe fans really can’t see how natural his progression to that point was. Dude went through some serious shit!
Thank you for this! I hate hearing people describing Cloud in Advent Children as emo. When you watch someone die, it breaks something inside you...something you never get back. It leaves behind this gaping hole that never goes away. You learn to live with it over time, and it is an intense struggle to learn. It's difficult to put into words what it does to you. The character of Cloud Strife did this...not once...but TWICE!
People who call Advent Children Cloud emo are most likely people who have never looked into the eyes of someone as that person dies.
This is a very interesting and insightful video. You Sir have a great, expansive vocabulary :)
THANK YOU! Everyone I know has said that Advent Children ruined Cloud's character, so it makes me so happy to see someone who sees that Advent Children just gave us a better look at Cloud, not ruined him. Thank you!
This video was wonderful and I totally agree with your analysis when some people started calling cloud's character in advent children depressing I could only find that as an insult to the character because I did not see him as depressing and instead as stoic reserved and quiet. I think you really hit the nail on the head thank you.
I find your argument compelling. I think the problem with AC Cloud was the disconnect in his presentation. We didn't see those years of him struggling to find himself after achieving the victory we thought had put away all his inner demons. We just join him years later and see him depressed and emotionally muted. As I've grown older and dealt with my own grief, I've come to realize how much sense it makes now, but it didn't make sense at the time. I think a simple 2-5 minute "how he got there" segment in AC would have gone a long way into helping me and other viewers accept Cloud for who he was, rather than dismiss him as "emo." Because, yeah, he went through a lot of intense shit. It makes sense. But the presentation on it needed improvement, IMO.
Kinda late to the "party" since this video was published in 2017, but I just wanted to say... God it's good to see that some people really gets
Cloud perfectly. Everything you said in this video, and some of the comments I saw down below, just perfection. I would like to add, but
maybe it was already mentioned in some other comments, that Cloud's guiltiness and feelings of helplessness come also from being manipulated by Jenova (that made him attack Aerith at some point in OG, and give Sephiroth the black materia)
I think one of the reasons I love this character so much, and find him so fascinating, is that Cloud, in a way, "fails" so much. He's kind of a anti-hero on that aspect, but that also makes him so much more "human" and relatable. He was never meant to be strong like Sephiroth or Zack. He was socially awkward, lacked self-confidence, etc.. But in the end, he's a character that never gave up. He fights and against all odds, defeats Sephiroth, three separate times, and each time is really symbolic. Cloud Strife's character development is a journey of its kind and it's both fascinating and inspiring.
Crazy how they managed to make an actual relatable character the protagonist
didnt mention that cloud also had geo stigma in advent children
kevin graham I was just thinking that. It’s an important part as well. In my opinion, it’s part of the reason he says he’s not fit to help anyone. Also, as Tifa said “I don’t think he’s gonna fight” when referring to the stigma, shows him as accepting his “sins” and making peace to die for said sins.
@@americanzero2114 the other reason is that he wants to be reunited with Aerith in the lifestream
Jay Yothanan I mean, that too. It pains me to say that cause I’m Team Tifa lol
Jay Yothanan thank you though. For drawing my attention back to this video. I’m doing all the prepping I can for the Remake! So I’m gonna pause Persona 5 Royal and rewatch it.
@@americanzero2114 I'm actually watching
A play through right now haha
Even though it's not explicitly indicated through the title alone, it's pretty apparent that FFVII's main theme serves as Cloud's leitmotif throughout the game's score. The various renditions of the theme generally play during pivotal moments that are related to Cloud or his past, and the track "Who Am I?" for Cloud's subconscious sequence is another variant of it.
It's basically a Star Wars situation, where John Williams had the Main Theme double as Luke's.
Ya, I came here to say just this. I remember seeing "The Main Theme of Final Fantasy VII" often described as "Cloud's Theme / Final Fantasy VII Main theme"
I believe Uematsu had described how he purposefully made half of the theme filled with anxiety. Also the rising crescendo near the end really goes well with Cloud's reckoning of the truth. While the orchestrated version ends on a more light hearted reminder of the theme's main identity, the original in-game version really does end on a somber note before it loops back into the beginning.
Thank you, cloud is my first and favorite rpg character. I had to listen to so many people say lighting is cloud when I dissagreed so much and i blamed advent children for giving them that impression and so i have had a love hate relationship with that movie. Now I think I can really appreciate it.
From what I understand, Cloud was physically able to make SOLDIER...what held him back was his weak psyche. Candidates for SOLDIER must undergo two processes, intense mako exposure and Genova cell infusion. Because of his weak mind, Cloud was rejected as the jenova cell infusion would have destroyed his psyche and left him a comatose shell of himself; just like the clones in black that roamed around the world in ff7 saying "re...u...nion".
Finally someone who saw what happened to Cloud at least part of it there's some parts missing there but is well explained at least he did well the research missed two things but got into the Cloud Nature.
Such wonderful characters in Final Fantasy 7.
Calling Cloud « emo » in Advent Children is like calling someone majorly depressed that their feeling are not valid.
Cloud was never created as a stereotypical hero character, he wasn’t one. Thinking him to be just badass and mentally strong after everything happened is not right, Cloud is NOT mentally stable and that’s what makes him so realistic. The guilt and shame he felt and feels is extreme and he just can’t forgive himself
Awsome video, a great analysis. I would though add what created the persona of 1st Class SOLDIER he wore during the first hours of the game, I mean PTSD from the Nibleheim incident. If you take into account that Cloud was unconcious during most of the experiments Hojo did on him (Crisis Core) then in a short amount of his concious time he :
- learned that the Shinra he works for is experimenting on humans and change them into monsters (must have overheard Sephiroth and Zack)
- seen his childhood hero change fall into madness
- most likely seen his mother corpse or deduced she died burried under the house weakened by the fire
- followed to find Sephiroth who just murdered people he knew (even though he didn't especially like them)
- lost his reason to enter SOLDIER in the first place (to prove to the people of Nibleheim he can be as strong as Sephiroth, there is no one to see it now, except Tifa)
- Seen Tifa slashed by Sephiroth and assumed she died
(lost conciousness)
- Been experimented upon
(lost conciousness)
- Lost his friend that tried so hard to save him, Zack basically became Cloud's new ideal after Sephiroth
Then the whole Aerith thing... Cloud's mind is destroyed at that point.
Well, I also wanted to applaud you for actually pointing out the common theme of guilt in all characters, making me appreciate all characters at least as much as I appreciate Cloud.
i think the most important element of cloud's psyche that is overlooked is that he blames himself for things he can't control. when tifa falls, when he's not selected for soldier, when zack and aerith die, when he's controlled by sephiroth, he takes these very deeply and personally. he blames himself for not being able to affect the outcomes of these situations. he concludes if he were stronger, he could have made things different, could prevent bad things from happening. this sets off a chain reaction of anger, guilt, remorse and he distances himself to mask his pain. so deep that it's not until he's able to cure not just himself but all the advent children with geostigma - that he's able to forgive himself. edit: and truly smile.
I'll be honest, back in I believe 2015 or 2016, I thought he was but sort of emo. Didn't really know too much about Cloud. But I no longer think Cloud was emo at all. While I've yet to played Crisis Core, I did in fact played FF7 again and beat it and after that, rewatch Advent Children Complete again and now I understand why he was depressed. Honestly, I don't understand why some say it ruined Cloud's character. I think it's the other way around. It makes him relatable for those who lost important people in their lives and couldn't move on from that. But once he finally breaks through that depression of his, just seeing him smile was just beautiful. In a way, he's one of my Final Fantasy characters and I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone that the compilation didn't ruin Cloud's character.
This is why I love Final Fantasy VII, and Why I feel it is the best entry in the series. I wasn't one of the haters. I understand that he is finally struggling with the losses he suffered and didnt have time to grieve for their deaths. AC complete is the best one to watch and adds much more needed fleshing things out.
Advent Children came out at the time when everyone was hypersensitive about "emos". And hated them just for their look.
Cloud wasn't even "emo" he was suffering ptsd. But society couldn't accept that cuz "eM0 = bAd".
It's the same reason pissbabies whine about Anakin in the Star Wars prequels.
They're just not comfortable facing their own emotions. They don't like seeing the more cringe inducing aspects of being human.
So they say it was "bad writing" or "poor character design" so as to negate the feelings of shame they recognize in front of them.
Im pretty sure the big issue for Advent Children Cloud being considered "emo" was mainly his poor treatment of Tifa throughout Advent Children until the end.
This explained AC to me. Cloud has surviror's guilt and dpd
I love Cloud's character. Cloud is not a hero, but accidentally and dramatically he really is
What the hell are you talking about? The dude legit saved the lives of Zack, Tifa and everyone else who survived that night by singlehandedly killing Sepiroth. That was no accident, jave you even played the game? Why dies everyone forget that Cloud saved everyone before they helped him?
This is 100% accurate. Everyone who complains about cloud seriously are small minded and can’t comprehend a complex character or story.
I have to admit that I hated him at first because he was very emotionless at first specialy to Aerith and also in my eyes he had a weak personality because he did not want to show to Tifa and everyone that he was not a member of Soldier and I didnt like that ! He lied to everyone in order to get respect. But all he wanted is to be accepted and become later what he lied so in a way now as I get oldier I sympathise with him and I reallly loved the way he admited his secret to everyone. He is truly more human than any other character I ve seen in FF series. I love the way he asked for forgiveness for the mistakes he did in the past and for his behaviour. He is a good character and his development is sure clear.
The church scene almost made me tear up. Awesome video man. So well done.
Cloud Strife is not only my favorite FF character but my All time Favorite Video Game character ever
i'll be honest, i really want to agree with what yo say in this vid, cause i don't think it's too far off the mark. my only point against it, if you'll allow me to play devil's advocate, is that tetsua nomura straight out said in interviews that they purposefully regressed cloud's character development in AC for the "sake of the audience," though thankfully he does eventually end up in a better place by the end then even the OG title, so his character progression as laid out here is still for the most part valid.
Listen. I'm sure some people don't want it. But after they finish with the Remake Project. I hope they make a Full Fleshed Advent Children Game. I don't know much about Dirge of Cerberus but they can make a Remake which is about Vincent's Backstory while having things happening in the Present. They don't even need to add the Party to that game. But again. I just don't know what happens. All I know is that there's some "Power of Friendship" bs.
When I call Cloud "emo" I'm in no way disrespecting him or dissing him or anything I'm just calling him emo. He's still every bit of a hero that he's portrayed as just really emo at the same time
Its sad that the remake will problaby forget all of this.
I was Cloud once, I pretended my whole life and now I'm me. What a Rollercoaster
One of the things I always notice is there are some people that dont understand why people like cloud but hate squall when they are both the strong silent "emo" types without realizing that to many Cloud and the world of FF VII allowed him to EARN the emotional turmoil while Squall was a punk kid in a very nice and shiny world and was the second most popular kid in school right from the gate he didnt really earn his turmoil especially when you take into account he doesnt really have many memories of his childhood because of the GF's so any trauma there is just kind of over written.
Basically start of the game Cloud is the grizzled ex special forces guy who now is just in it for the money, but as you go on with his character you learn more about him, he cares more than he lets on at first and as he becomes more of himself and less of Zack and his view of soldier he opens up, by the end with Advent he has a reason to feel the way he does.
Squall on the other hand is the "woa is me" popular kid that gets top grades in his classes and no one will ever understand the pain of being one of the most popular kids in school, to work so hard to get the top grades in the class and be one of the only 2 people in the school capable of using one of the hardest weapons. To be surrounded by people who are also top of the class that just want to hang out with you and be hit on by all the pretty women. He doesnt earn his strong silence, yes it turns out that he eventually lets people in and that he had this "abandonment" issue but the "abandonment" issue doesnt make any sense to have when he is surrounded by people at the school and the fact that he doesnt have memory of the abandonment. He is like what John Travolta's character pretended to be in Grease except unlike Grease where he is putting on a show for his friends so he doesnt lose his popularity Squall is pushing everyone away because... he is secretly afraid of being alone. It bothers me when people compare Squall and cloud as both emo because they are fundamentally different characters with different motivations, and honestly I don't like Squall because his motivations never made sense to me vs Cloud's motivations and grief made perfect sense as a human being.
Old ass comment so you'll likely not see this reply, but I'd like to weigh in on Squall here because I think you don't really get him.
First of all, we need to look at two very important things, Squall's fear of abandonment and his amnesia. A fear of abandonment is a phobia and like any phobia, it's mostly a sub-conscious thing. You bring up that Squall's fear of being alone doesn't make sense because he's surrounded by people and doesn't remember being abandoned but the thing is that only serves to amplify his, very irrational, fear. He was an orphan, so seemingly abandoned by his parents, then everyone from the orphanage, including Ellone whom he was the closest with all disappeared. Now, this would give anyone issues, especially someone as young and inexperienced with life as Squall, but the fact that he can't remember means he can't look back on the memories and work through those feelings by attaching them to logical events that he can come to logical conclusions on.
And the fact that he's surrounded by people does NOT help his situation. As established, he doesn't have the memories of what happened to him, but he does retain the emotions, and being surrounded by other people is something he associates with, on an emotional level, to those people leaving. Between his parents, those at the orphanage, Ellone, whatever, being surrounded by people, to him emotionally, means they will eventually leave him. As such he does a VERY common in the real world thing that people do when they don't want to be hurt, they close themselves off. Is this a healthy thing? No. And that's the point of Squall's development.
It also doesn't help that he's clearly an introvert who's uncomfortable with too much socializing all at once, and characters like Quistis dumping all of their baggage on him out of the blue, it's not likely to help him open up. The thing about introverts is that they can only handle so much social interaction at once, and even then it often has to be the right people, hence why introverts will often stick to one person, even in their friend group. That's put on pretty clear display with Squall's relationships with both Rinoa and Ellone, who both have generally quite positive attitudes that bring out the best in Squall without ever asking him to suddenly shoulder their burdens like Quistis does early on, which allows Squall to open up a little more at his own pace.
Also, I never got the sense Squall was popular. Respected for his ability sure, but the only people in Balamb garden who took an active interest in him were those from the orphanage who had an emotional connection to him, even if they didn't remember why they had that emotional draw. If it weren't for their almost inexplicable emotional connection then Quistis, Zell, and Selphie likely wouldn't have even made half the effort they did with Squall. Outside of all that no one really associates with Squall unless they have to, or they're Seifer and they have the biggest chip on their shoulder. He seems less popular that "everyone knows of, but no one really knows."
Finally, Squall wasn't emo. Stundere, is how one TH-cam comment described him, and that's about perfect. Because of the emotional instability he has regarding associating with others, which I might remind he has no way of attaching any logical explanation to, his knee jerk reaction is to push people away because the thought of getting close to someone only for them to leave is terrifying to him, hence he puts on a bad attitude and overthinks everything without just saying what he means. You are correct in your assertation that this fear is illogical and has no real basis in reality, but the thing is that's the point, it's all in Squall's head and his development is centered around coming terms with those emotions as he discovers the logical explanations for his deeply unpleasant emotions, all with help from the people he, ironically, tried to push away in the first place.
TL;DR: Squall is a teenager with emotions he can't explain due to his lack of memories not giving him a logical anchor for said emotions and ultimately has to come to terms with the fact that not only is it okay for him to rely on and be close to other people but also discovering why he feels this way all culminating in him finally taking down the walls he's set up.
Of course, I'm not necessarily trying to get you to change your mind or anything, like or dislike what you want, but I just felt you misrepresented Squall here just a little.
Fantastic work, mate.
I personally think that a lot of this talk about "Emo Cloud" comes from the fans dissapointed by the overall quality of Advent Children. Accusing the producers of turing Cloud being "emo" is simply the easiest way for them to went their frustration.
3:25 - To add to what you've already said, Cloud found Denzel next to Aerith's church. He saw that as a sign from Aerith and convinced himself that she sent Deznel to him as a form of attonment for his "failure" to protect her. Watching helplessly Denzel dying from Geostigma broke Cloud's heart, not only beceuse he genuinely loved the kid, but he felt like he was failing Aerith all over again.
Notice Cloud only asked forgiveness from Aerith, not Zack in Advent Children. I think this is because Cloud thinks he is indirectly responsible for Aerith's death in FFVII. Sephiroth was able to control Cloud and spy on him through his Jenova cells. Sephiroth knows what Cloud knows, including Aerith's plan to stop him. Cloud led Sephiroth directly to Aerith in the City of Ancients. Notice how Sephiroth(controlling Jenova) only appeared after Cloud arrived, even tried to control him to kill Aerith before doing the deed himself.
This is how I think of it: Many narratives, Final Fantasy or not, focus on a hero or heros fighting against a villain. Many stories are unique but thats the basic idea. Like if a super hero saves a kid from danger and gives him a life lesson. Cloud is the kid and to him, people like Sephiroth (originally) and Zack are the super hero. Yet the story is about Cloud. Thats what makes him different from heroic stereotypes. He is like Frog in Chrono Trigger, who goes through similar struggles.
I don't know about anyone else, This may be just me. But I enjoy pretty much every Final fantasy story.
from 1-13. even the side games are interesting.
Like tactics or chronicles.
If you play Final fantasy as just something to play, or for action only.
It'll be nice and all, adventure is cool as heck.
But You'll be disappointed if you don't look into any of the storylines.
Final Fantasy games, other than anime. Are my favorite epic storytellers.
My favorites would be 7, 8, 9 and Tactics.
I do like 10, 12, 13. 14 as well.
Have not played 11.
I did 1, 3, 4.
Have not played 2, 5, 6.
Even the Sequels and pre-sequels. For FF7 or any others. Like Dirge of Cerberus, Crisis.
Or 10, 10-2.
13's series.
They all have amazing storylines, relatable characters. I don't think I've ever hated one more than another. Or even Disliked.
That was awesome...I think Jenova's cells were also a big part in Cloud accepting Zack's persona but could be me :)
For all Final Fantasy fans. People might look at this as a game, but for "us" the people who can relate, believe and cherish. This for us Is more than a game.
Final Fantasy Forever.
This video: Understanding Cloud through original storyline.
FF7 Remake Ending: Hold my alternate timeline.
It was one the many reasons why I wasn't critical of Cloud's behavior in AC (decided to watch a walkthrough of Final Fantasy VII after seeing the movie). He didn't really had proper time to grieve of the tragic events he went through, since it seems that something happens that forces him to put it on hold for a while, not to mention that the tragic stuff was happening in quick succession to him. Also, to add, it makes sense that he'll be lost of what to do with his life after the events of the game. In his early teen years, he basically used them for Shinra and SOLDIER, which turns out to be completely wasteful. He was mostly in captivity for most (if not all) all of his later teen years, and those are years he's never going to get back (never to live them out). In other words, Cloud was actually unprepared when it comes to living in the real world (or at least, in a normal life).
Thank you for making this video. I am watching after FFVIIR and was very upset by callous remarks made by a few gamers regarding 'emo Cloud' in Advent children. Rather than focusing on the immature behaviour of a few, you show great sensitivity and compassion to a very traumatised and heartbroken Cloud. It makes me feel better about the world that others can have such a deep understanding. IMO men don't have to be badass to be cool. The fact that Cloud cared so very deeply about his loved ones and was finally able to connect with himself is very special. I am not aware of any other gaming character able to move me the way that his journey did. I feel he revolutionized what it means to be male and wish more men were able to understand that having feelings doesn't mean you're gay or a pushover. It means that you're human. The world needs more men like that.
“Emo” adopted two kids and worked self-own business to support his family while coping with the massive pile of shit that went down not two years before. Excuse the man not even in his late 20s, losing about 5-7 years of life, for being a bit broody in a world fresh out of the apocalypse that he was instrumental in creating and forestalling.
You did an amazing job killing these misconceptions of cloud. Hes more deep than people think. Makes me wanna play the game and even check the novelas since I never seen em.
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO! I agree with you so much on these, and I could not find anyone who agreed with me on this that made a video! Thank you so much!
I'm glad that I saw this in my recommended, and I hope more people see this so they know Cloud didn't go 'emo' in Advent Children.
There was more to it, it's just that people didn't see it.
Thank you for speaking the truth! What I don't get is how people miss that Cloud gets out of the "emo" phase by the end of the movie? At times like these I wonder if people even pay attention when they watch a movie.