The End of Growth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ธ.ค. 2024
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There has never been something that is so critical to understand and as important as the topics in this video. We discuss the life works of brilliant minds such as MIT fellows Donella H. Meadows, Dennis L. Meadows, Jørgen Randers, William W. Behrens III, but also Richard Heinberg, Dr Albert Bartlett, and others.
The End of Growth.
The fundamental thing this video tries to highlight is the disparity between global systems which assume constant growth is possible and the reality that we live on a finite planet. It doesn't matter if the growth rate of something is 0.01% per year, if it NEVER goes below zero (or if the long term average is above zero), then it is fundamentally unsustainable. This is not an opinion piece. This is simply reality.
One question that may pop up is "doesn't growth rate matter?". It does, but it also doesn't. It does because it buys us time to find solutions. It doesn't, because it won't address the root cause of the problem - that no matter what we will still outstrip the planet if we don't stabilize. It doesn't matter if we "approach" stability. We must HIT stability. And that stable endpoint MUST be beneath the carrying capacity of whatever we are discussing: landspace, energy, resources, etc.
And if we overshoot any of these limits (and we often don't know where they are), then there are things that get triggered in order to keep us within them. These things are war, disease, famine, drought, starvation.
To understand why, we look at the "infinity argument" and if that is possible or not. For example, assuming only 1 planet (for now ignore the ability to spread into space), and lets look at population growth. If human population keeps increasing, then we have humans packed so densely that each human has 1 square foot of space on the earth. We can build skyscrapers, but that only buys us more time - if we keep growing, then we have skyscrapers every sq ft, zero other land use, and we use the entirety of the worlds resources building them. We still hit THAT limit.
So if we KNOW that we cannot go infinite, then AT SOME POINT, it is guaranteed that SOMETHING will happen to prevent it. These manifest in the real world as starvation, disease, wars over resources, etc.
If we continue ignoring the hard questions, and refuse to stop living unsustainable lives, then this is the endpoint. Because it has to be.
That doesn't mean the situation is hopeless. What is DOES mean, is that we need to stop being mad when we are told we are living unsustainable lives, and we need to start DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I'm talking in CAPS because it's that important. It's the future of humanity. It's our childrens future. We've ignored it, collectively, for generations. The MIT study came out in the early 70s, and we've only continued to INCREASE the rate of our consumption since then.
Our kids deserve better. We CAN stop it. Us. Everyone reading/watching this right now. We can stop this. We need to wake everyone we know up. And we need to get started.
Today.
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I actually re-did the last half of the video several times, and am still not happy with it (and realize no matter how many times I try, I likely never will be). It truly is an impossible topic to discuss. I'm hoping the video, combined with the discussion in the video description, and then expanded by this comment (and possibly others) can help elucidate the situation we find ourselves in.
It is arguably one of the most interesting ethical dilemmas humanity will ever face. It often leads to people attacking the person trying to bring to light our impossible lifestyles, and the terrible conclusion that the only way to avoid catastrophe is to understand that if "life" is the problem, then the only solution is the opposite of that. The tricky part is, that this solution will get exercised whether we want it to or not.
Maybe the solution is a technological one - and if we can delay our growth enough, we can get into the whole path of space exploration leading to energy solutions such as Dyson's spheres, recycling solutions such as throwing pollution/garbage into the sun. I personally believe that this approach to "solution" (in quotes because it never solves anything) only leads humanity to being a universe-sized virus that consumes everything in it's path of complete and utter destruction. Perhaps this is as fundamental as "humanity fights entropy", and it's an impossibility, an inevitability. All things tend toward chaos. I truly believe that there exists out there a path that avoids this, and leads us to living in harmony with nature (at least as long as the energy of our sun allows us to - locally - side-step entropy through the key process of photosynthesis/photovoltaics in harvesting that energy).
I had to cut so many long tangents (such as this technological path), as the uncut video was over 3 hours, and that's just not something that can hold people's attention. And I really want to get the CORE idea to people - that growth is simply impossible to sustain. And we either fix it or we have it fixed for us in terrible ways.
It's a super interesting topic, for the fact that it turns all the "good stuff" (health, medicine, life expectancy) into the very things that are setting us on this path of becoming the force which consumes all and destroys all.
People also get defensive when this topic is brought up. I've had discussions with close friends, and it almost always ends up in someone walking away thinking that you are attacking them. It's hard to wake people up who don't want to be woken up. It's hard to admit that the vacations we go on, to beach destinations, are one of the things that is destroying the future for our children. I always try to be as non-confrontational as possible, but simply discussing it is confrontational. For example, I have no doubt that I will lose subscribers to this video. I will lose the people who just want to look at gardens and plants and put their heads in the sand about the impact their lives have on our grandchildren. I'm a little concerned the comment section may get a bit too spicey. I'm concerned people may feel attacked. I do hope anyone feeling this way reads this, and understands the place that I'm coming from - that the universe doesn't care about our feelings. It will just react to our actions. And if our actions are to be a virus that spreads consuming everything, then the universe will fix us with terrible cures.
I think the overall effect of this video will be positive. Even those who refuse to acknowledge this, maybe the seed is still planted in their mind.
I will try to focus on gardening and happy topics, and continue to be the "Bob Ross of gardening" as I've been so lovingly called. But at the same time, if Bob Ross slapped me in the face and told me to stop being a virus, I (personally) would listen to Bob and look inward. I'm trying to channel that energy here. I'm trying to be a little different than the average gardening channel. My goal is activism, camouflaged as gardening.
It is a tough topic for sure, and I hope this video at least gets people thinking. And we need people thinking. Earth overshoot day for 2022 is July 28th.
It's also important to know that the worst offenders to our crisis are NOT going to do anything about it. As much as I hate how the carbon footprint was a BP advertising viral success, redirecting the carbon problem to the consumer, it's important to know that the only people who will ACTUALLY do anything about it is us. How do I know? Did you know that BP spent MORE money on advertising for the carbon footprint campaign than they did actually doing anything about it? Infact, in the same year that BP hired Ogilvy and Mather $250 million dollars for the Carbon footprint advertising campaign, telling YOU how to reduce your carbon footprint, they continued to invest in new drilling. If that sounds bad, it gets worse. In the years since then, BP has spent MORE money on advertising campaigns telling YOU about their solar energy projects than they actually spent ON the solar energy projects.
So if our plan is to hope that governments (who are bought) to change legislation, or to hope that the worst emitters get better, then we're doomed. We MUST hit them any way we can in the pocket book. We only do that by trying to buy less of their product. That's tricky, because Coal Oil and Gas is used to dig up resources, manufacture them into products, ship the products and pack the products, that pretty much every single thing we buy supports the worst offenders.
However, that's why the most crucial thing we can do is to simply consume as little as possible, support truly green projects, re-use as much as we can, offset OTHER PEOPLE's purchases by selling them our older stuff, and we buy their used things, etc, all the things at the end of the video.
Because we DO have power. And we all need to be aware that pushing the agenda of "it doesn't matter what I do when the worst offenders create 95% of the pollution", that motto is one that seeds to DEFEAT US, so that we continue to lead our unsustainable lives, buying their products and keeping them rich. If you are feeling dejected and hopeless, you should FULLY UNDERSTAND that this is exactly how they want you to feel, so that you continue the status quo. So we must resist that and fight. Or our children will pay for our apathy.
Regarding the population crisis - there could be a "silver lining"...
The current demographics of the planet is thought to possibly offer some natural relief to this crisis - although, again, it's not pretty, or nice.
As the demographics age, and all these problems with consumption and prices get worse, and economic disparity between rich and poor widens, we are starting to see a large amount of young people scared to bring children into the world. These 2 things create the perfect storm.
Rising amount of retirees, combined with a shrinking workforce to support them, lead to further economic concerns and a feedback loop that makes having children almost impossible - financially. This causes a further shrink of future workforce, which then has to still support a greater population of retirees (as the birth rates drop below 2.4 or so).
So although as far as reducing population, this is a good thing, the TIMING of how it plays out means that each subsequent generation (as we dip below around 2.2 which, accounting for deaths is roughly where the stability regime is), they have to always support more older people. And as inflation cuts buying power and erodes savings rate, and as capitalism funnels all money to the rich and class gaps widen, the problem feeds back on itself.
It's possible that this is how the population crisis will resolve itself, but that's going to be a rough ride for our children.
So it's imperative that we address all the factors that feed into all these solutions - which can largely be summed up by
- reduce consumption per capita
- economic reform to halt the growing divide between rich vs poor
- manufacturing, food, packaging, consumption, and recycling needs to get as green as possible
- Energy infrastucture and research needs to be maximized to get us to fusion as fast as possible, as energy is very likely going to be the limiting factor of "can we transition" or not?
Once we start hitting any of these limits, and resources or energy, or access to food and water starts restricting our ability to transition to a clean economy... if we delay our progress in these areas of humanity, then we risk complete and utter systemic collapse, and trigger all the nastiest feedback correcting loops as possible. And it won't be us who pays the price of our inaction, it's our grandchildren.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Indeed, the big oil companies like Shell und Exxon had internal studies already in the 1980s predicting everything we know is on the horizon now. And they kept the lid on it and put much money into PR later, when the truth started to leak.
That fits in perfectly with all the greenwashing by various industries now. If you see a commercial ad promising you that consuming more x instead of y will benefit the climate or the environment you should be very careful in general, because in 99% it's just marketing, attaching itself to the fear and guilt we feel on a subconscious level and trying to push growth even further.
I am sure, lobbyism is a big factor on one hand when it comes to the ineffectiveness of governments around the world to take meaningful actions. But on the other hand I am not really sure, what they are supposed to do, even if they wanted to act. If they would introduce the necessary reduce of consumption by legislative means, i.e. bringing down the standard of living for everyone, it would be easy for any demagogue to promise to the people what most of them still want to hear: "Vote for me and everything will be okay, the enemy is (fill in blank scapegoat)!"
Unless people do really understand and accept the existential thread we are facing and have an intrinsic motivation to act and cut back, there isn't much that can be achieved by legislature. At least not for much longer than an election cycle. And that doesn't even factor in, that we are seeing a tectonic geopolitical shift right now, which makes the necessary cooperation between governments to solve this crisis even more unlikely.
I 100% agree, that we will have the power, once a critical threshold of people is aware of what is coming and is willing to act. This will open many possibilities, likes general strikes, massive acts of civil disobedience, effective boycotts etc.
In the meantime, there is hope in the direct personal actions you have outlined.
PS: Only a thesis, but I would bet my money on the following: If there had been no worldwide ban on psychedelics for decades now, which seem to blur the line between consciousness and the chemical communication mechanism by plants and mushrooms we would be step further when it comes to develop a broader social and personal understanding of the situation we are in.
I thought the pandemic was a warning, an event that nature had to warn all of one animal species, humans, that we must stop, must allow the planetary envelope to clear. I saw people who chose to ignore it, people who chose to do some hard thinking, and some population adjustment happened.
Now look at corporate and government actions, "ramp up, grow the economy" plus the decision south of our border.
Obviously the people who claim power aren't listening.
Viral I agree. Viewing from South Africa, I’m an ESG/sustainability professional and you have made my year with the content you have created. Keep going buddy. I was following you for food forest ideas and starting my food forest but you have elevated this to another level. Brilliant 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Thanks!
I'm 10 minutes in and I can already say this is your best video ever. This one needs to go viral. I'm already sending it all over facebook.
Agreed!
Sharing
Man, you nailed it! There are all of these concerns/issues swirling around and this tied it all together so eloquently. You're making a difference, keep it up!
Much appreciated!
I plan to share this video with my loved ones. I’m already on the same page as you, but your video explains what we’re facing in a much more convincing and eloquent way than I ever could. Thank you for sharing all of your videos, and this one (and the one you highlighted) in particular. You’re making a difference.
It’s difficult when living in a nihilist society where people always think they’ll be gone long before the problem becomes a huge problem. I even struggle to get my own family on board and I’m fairly certain my neighbours hate my dandelions and bushes that stick through the fence.
Great, thoughtful video. I feel like we are a very small minority who is learning and thinking about this stuff (especially here in America). I am hopeful but fearful that it's too late to avoid the sixth extinction.
Not an easy topic, but the most vitally important and you do a wonderful job being objective and straightforward without scaring people into thinking their choices don’t matter because we all fucked anyway. The future could be bleak if nobody wants to have these conversations and take ownership of their decisions that dictate the extent to which they are contributing to the problems or the solutions. Thank you for this video. I hope it serves as a much needed wake up call to folks that inspires us all to act instead of resigns us to a steady march toward a cliff edge.
It's so hard.
The worst part is, thinking that none of our decisions matter just keeps us on the same path.
It's so refreshing to see people start to talk about and discuss overpopulation. It's without question the biggest issue our world faces, yet nobody wants to talk about it. Thank you so much for this video.
That's because it is fraught with eco-facism and white supremacy. Fact is, the population will peak around 12 Billion and then begin to fall as more women get access to education and contraception. Right now, the only countries with growing populations are the poor ones. So, focusing on population is a way of saying those poor brown folks in the southern hemisphere shouldn't be making babies. Alternatively, northern hemisphere countries could start accepting many more immigrants. White folks won't like that though
My man out here snacking on serviceberries and casually rhyming off advanced calculus. I'm so glad you are on our team. My dude. ❤
LOL, not really calculus, but I see your point :)
This is such an important topic. I don't usually make "first" posts, but I'm going to go make a tea and sit down and really enjoy this one. These are my favorite kind of videos you do, because these are the ones that get me up off my butt and outside planting. Or making radical life changes.
Well presented! Like me, you are a big picture thinker and your discussion in this video covers such an important issue. I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned how we have fallen into the trap of discarding items for the sake of trends [actually, marketing]. I was lucky to have grown up on a multi-generational farm where very little change to the buildings was done other than maintenance. We all wore clothes that were handed down, refitted, patched, and later converted into quilts, rugs, or other house-hold linens. All food was dried, canned, smoked, pickled and in later years, frozen. I think one thing that needs to be mentioned is our need to demand manufacturers to produce long-lived goods to reduce consumption of materials. The best example is our appliances. I inherited a fridge and 28 cu ft freezer from my parents that both continued to work well after 40 years of daily use without repair. I can't say the same for items I have purchased over the last two decades.
Yeah the problem right now is that the financial incentive is for companies to build things that last a single day longer than the warranty, then also have them so difficult to repair that it makes more sense to buy a new one.
One possible suggestion that I like is to make the manufacturer responsible for recycling and disposal fees. Some kind of incentive to return to the practice of engineering things to last longer and not engineering them to fail.
I got my dad's electrolux canister vacuum cleaner. He passed away 33 years ago. It's still a great vacuum cleaner.
I agree with almost everything started here, especially the population growth. I grew up in a family of 6, I had one child, my sibling also 1, the next generation has 1 each. 6 to 2 to 2. Unfortunately the decision south of our border pushes the growth in precisely the opposite direction.
I got rid of my car, although I loved driving to unseen places, getting away from the city.
I have clothes older than most young adults. I don't need 5 pairs of shoes, but I have slippers and shoes all made of plastic.
The fossil fuel industries pushed "carbon footprint" to avoid us knowing they're the ones producing all this plastic.
Uncontrolled growth is known medically as cancer, we're growing into a planet of cancer growth, literally and figuratively.
Economic growth is the same, cancerous to our only support system, this one planet.
It's a truth, we're either going to reduce births or push the entire world beyond any kind of sustainable, moral, ethical wellness.
I think it was June when our consumption outstripped the ability of the natural world to regenerate itself.
We can't withdraw money from a bank when our money is spent, nor can we take more out than natural forces can replenish. Bankruptcy, either way.
Fantastic post.
Once again, great video !! You explain it so well. Hope more people get into gardening and plant more trees. Thank you for all you do.
Thanks again!
Awesome video on a crucially important topic. The end of growth and a shift towards Strong Sustainability forming the foundation for everything else, going forward.
Thank you for the lucid and easy to understand explanations.
Thanks you
Wow, so well said in a small amount of time! I too am sharing this. So many people have such a disconnect from this beautiful planet. You are a very good educator on matters that count. And, by the way, thanks for doing the math.
Great video. This is a topic I talk to my family about often. The younger ones (and both of my parents) are all making changes to prepare for the economy slow down and crash, such as becoming independent of the economy by living off grid and growing/creating all we need ourselves. Us younger ones in the family also refuse to have biological children because of the overpopulation issue. Humanity will be forced to make big changes in lifestyle soon.
I just finished watching the fish example. I fear people may conclude that human population isn't likely to go exponential like that. I hope people don't miss the point that it doesn't have to. As long as it is still constantly growing, the results are the same - collapse. We actually have to not only slow the rate of population, but actually reverse it and reduce human population. I'm excited to watch the last 20 minutes, because the first 10 was incredible. Edit: I just finished and the end was better than the beginning. I'm going to watch this video several times. It's so deep.
OUTSTANDING Video Keith. Important message. A++++++
I appreciate all the work you put into illustrating the critical dilemma we are facing, but isn't being recognized nor acknowledged widely enough. I used to be very oblivious- trusting in technology to develop solutions. I experience a major wake up call when I serendipitously found an Earth Day presentation video by Nate Hagens which introduced me to the concept odmf energy blindness, the great simplification, and the imperative to bend rather than break. From there, I started to take gardening seriously and found out about permaculture. So changes in my mindset and efforts spread out from there and I am happy to find myself on a babystep journey with mentors such as yourself and other early adaptees of a way of life that eventually won't be optional, but on a positive note, will be healthier and more fulfilling.
Great simplification is a fantastic podcast. Very matter of fact, science based, and drilling down to the roots and connecting all the dots together.
A simple and clear presentation of growth math and the reality of unlimited gorwth. Malthus did the math in 1798. Meadows discussed limits to growth in 1972 and again in 2004. All articles are on line for anyone interested to review. Hopefully there is enough clear evidence that we are in trouble with economic and population growth for the reality to get some traction.
Oh wow, I love these videos of yours. This one looks like it's going to be a ride.
Bloody brilliant. Reasoned, rationally presented, options reviewed for personal action. New sub.
Welcome to the family 👪
Oh hell, I’m on the spectrum, and permaculture PLUS math, I’m going to be playing this vid over and over and over! Yep, this DOES need to go viral.
haha!
I’m really excited for this video and am going to save it for tomorrow evening when I can slow down and dive in.
Thanks for all you do!
Thank you for your constant encouraging and informative videos. We've added fruit trees and bushes to our lawn and decreased our mowing. Your friend in suburban Kansas.
Awesome!
Thank you so much for making this and getting more direct
Great video Keith! I appreciated the layout of the example and the overall concept. Excellent work! Thank you for what you do! 🙏
Thank you so much for producing this very realistic lesson that many of us know is true, and is happening right now, truly the elephant in the room as you say. I have been thinking about this for the past several years as a 69 year old who has sold gas fired equipment, and refrigerant filled Air Conditioning products, I am very concerned about Global warming for the sake of my three children, and four Grandchildren.
I am nearing the end of my working career, (theoretically), and have been trying to transition into more electrification of our product lines, but there again we are consuming more natural resources in order to make the transition, even with recycling as much of the equipment being replaced, there is still quite a bit going to landfills.
I think as you do, we all have to take a good look at everything we do, every product we buy, everything mouthful of food we consume, and ask ourselves, do I really need this now, or how can I consume this in a more sustainable manner, use less gas, less energy, especially My Generation, which really started this whole more is better attitude, and passed it on to our children. For that I apologize to future generations, and hopefully they will forgive us for our actions, and learn from them, and hopefully solve this serious problem, which as is said, must be solved with a greater deal of thought than how the problem was created.
This is such a beautiful but vulnerable little blue planet, in such a vast universe, and we are but one species amongst hundreds of thousands, and are single-handedly making in uninhabitable for all, Speciesism at it's best. If everyone would read the book "Gaia" by James Lovelock, I think we would all take a very good look at what our lifestyles are doing to our home.
This video brought a tear to my eye, something that doesn't happen very often in the various Gardening videos I have been following over the years.
Keep up the Great Work you are doing, and the direction you are going in,
Again,
Thank You.🙏🙏
What a kind comment. It's important that we all slowly wake up to the realities of the lifestyles they lead, and the consequences to future generations!
First! Started my small lot backyard food forest this weekend planting 5 trees. Thanks for the useful info you have provided! I believe this can be a solution to the world's food problem which is coming and the whole food forest concept has so many other positive enviromental benefits, we need to spread the knowledge! Greetings from Germany!
Oh wow how there you able to see this? The video is currently unlisted and is still being reviewed by the sponsor?
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy It popped up in the "The Essentials" playlist at the bottom. The thumbnail was grey/broken, but I went for it. :)
@@gnarrl Oh that's super interesting! Good to know. I'll pull it off the playlist for now. The video should be back up later today most likely.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Super interesting topic btw, the (artificial) economical demand for growth is not often being discussed, but it is an insanity leading us on a pathway to hell and has me concerned for more than 20 years now. Always compared it to a petri dish, once it has been fully colonized, its game over. And I share the sentiment, that leaving this path will also open doors to a happier life, once your basic needs are covered and you stop comparing yourself with others based on material wealth.
Overpopulation is a tough one to discuss, even in private, but it can't be ignored and luckily there are ways to fix this without commiting any atrocities.
The imminent outlook for the future looks grim and can be depressing, but there is hope, if we start to see the beauty in nature's complexity and admit, that we are a part of it, just like any other life form of planet's earth ecosystem, turning from adversaries to guardians of nature.
But enough pathos, keep up the good work! :D
@@gnarrl I actually re-did the last half of the video several times, and am still not happy with it. It truly is an impossible topic to discuss. Arguably one of the most interesting ethical dilemmas humanity will ever face is this one here. It often leads to people attacking the person trying to bring to light our impossible lifestyles, and the terrible conclusion that the only way to avoid catastrophe is to understand that if "life" is the problem, then the only solution is the opposite of that. The tricky part is, that this solution will get exercised whether we want it to or not.
Maybe the solution is a technological one - and if we can delay our growth enough, we can get into the whole path of space exploration leading to energy solutions such as Dyson's spheres, recycling solutions such as throwing pollution/garbage into the sun. I personally believe that this approach to "solution" (in quotes because it never solves anything) only leads humanity to being a universe-sized virus that consumes everything in it's path of complete and utter destruction. I had to cut so many long tangents (such as this technological path), as the uncut video was over 3 hours, and that's just not something that can hold people's attention. And I really want to get the CORE idea to people - that growth is simply impossible to sustain. And we either fix it or we have it fixed for us in terrible ways.
It's a super interesting topic, for the fact that it turns all the "good stuff" (health, medicine, life expectancy) into the very things that are setting us on this path of becoming the force which consumes all and destroys all.
Tough topic for sure, and I hope this video at least gets people thinking. (I'm going to post this under my pinned comment, hopefully more people will read it that way).
Please do a tour of your garden again soon! Second year of my food forest, it’s very interesting how what I thought wouldn’t do well (peaches, apricot, grapes and Italian plums) are growing like crazy super healthy and minimal bug attack. What I thought would grow well pear apple are just doing fine. So just try, don’t worry to much I have learned.
Will do. We've got kids baseball every day this week, but I'll try to sneak out there for a stroll. The next video, after this heavy one, will be a nice light hearted wander.
Good timing.
I needed that.
Thank you
Loving the extra use of B-roll! Great video!
Thanks so much!
Great video. Balanced, thorough, and amazingly non-political analysis. It's too bad people like you are so rare and under appreciated. Thanks for your videos!
Thanks! Based on some of your other comments, I can tell we have a lot in common with the way we think and approach situations.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thank you for the response! I'm impressed that you find the time to engage with commenters so much. As I mentioned in my most recent comment, you should really start a Patreon account so people can support you directly. And I bet many (like me) would like the opportunity to pay extra to pick your brain a little :)
Nevermind, after binging many of your videos I've finally encountered one where you mention you have a Patreon! You should mention that more often 😉
haha ❤️ . I try not to be annoying about it, but I may edit a 10 second end of video clip that I ass to all my videos. TH-cam ad revenue is really pathetic, so I should really focus on monetization properly.
Yes! Excellent video. Thank-you for explaining it so eloquently. I can now just send a link to your video instead of mumbling my way through this and getting weird looks and told I'm a terrible person 😅 Also....I got a good chuckle that TH-cam placed a Home Depot renovation ad soon after you talked about people tearing apart their kitchens. 🤣
Hahaha. Go home algorithm you are drunk.
Another great video. The more I think about the future my daughter will inherit the more I think about these issues.
I really don't see a solution other than returning back to communal based societies and I don't see that happening without the blood shed events you mentioned happening.
As long as there is a profit motive innovation will be pushed toward consumption. I hadn't thought about it quite in this light until I heard you mention in another video that we're on borrowed time with fossil fuels, but transportation is the perfect example. Old US cities like NYC were what cities were. Walkable places with public transit systems. We had red cars and were building train lines. But then came Henry Ford and the mass production of the car which then led to anti city and anti public transit propaganda that persists to this day.
As a result, cities that have been experiencing recent growth like Raleigh are entirely sprawl. Every time I look around town more trees are being knocked down for 3000 square foot single family homes that are nowhere near commercial centers. Mixed use apartment buildings with storefront bottoms don't exist. There are no bodegas or corner stores that you can just go downstairs and walk to.
The free market solution to the fossil fuel problem will be electric cars instead of intelligent city design. Instead of elimination suburbs and subdivisions we'll only expand them. But then when electric cars begin to fall short because they require resources, what then?
Side note, Not Just Bikes just did a fantastic video on Freiburg, Germany. Doing what they are doing is likely our only chance.
Exactly, this comment is bang on. Also, dig the reference to NJB, a great channel.
Keith, Great video and reality check. We're far from perfect, however, we do grow a fair amount of berries and veggies for our use, reuse, re purpose and recycle. Every little bit helps.
Awesome information thanks for sharing
All your videos are so informative. Thank you
You are so welcome!
Beautiful video! Thank you for addressing the elephant in the room.
It’s takes guts to talk about this stuff, im sure someone will comment “oh well who are you gonna kill first” but people will always reject nuance and truth when it’s makes them feel uncomfortable.
It's so hard to talk about these things. Innevitably, someone who is feeling attacked (usually because they KNOW they are part of the problem - just like I am part of the problem), it's easier to ignore that fact and try to make the other person sound like he wants to kill people. Again, just to pre-empty such nonsense, I am not advocating for killing people. I'm simply a weatherman. I don't want the storm. I'm just pointing at that giant raincloud with a tornado coming out of it, and saying "hey everyone, we should maybe care about that thing over there".
Everyone needs to share your video. This is the elephant in the room. People are blinded just because it takes all their energy they have just to exist in the rat race we call society.
It's a hard thing for good, well-meaning, kind hearted people to hear that their lifestyles are a problem.
In some places energy will unnecessarily compete with agriculture although the division between the two is false. Thank you for the wonderful soindscape.
We must drastically reduce our meat consumption, look into the effects of animal agriculture (Amazon deforestation due to growing feed crop etc). This is something every human can do independently and it will benefit their health enormously. When we understand the scale of animal agriculture, the ratio of farmed animal population to human population and how many resources it takes to feed that farmed animal population, moving toward a predominantly plant based diet is key for our future.
For sure. You will really enjoy my video on 7 things we can do to save the planet. I discuss this quite a bit.
Here is the link th-cam.com/video/GwHpVIB0t-k/w-d-xo.html
As a "gen z" that currently working towards owning land and doing activism to wake people the fuck up about the coming crises and the climate breakdown....I can only say that I'm so happy you finally did this video! Been binging permaculture and regenerative stuff since 15 because I realized quickly how fucked up the system is. And I didn't want to focus on the depressing stuff.😅 I see some hope in humanity, but if people don't protest in the street, I can't really see an fast and furious shift in society happening.
Yeah, I like to keep things positive, because focusing on the positive stuff has been shown over and over to be more impactful for causing action. I'm also hopeful for the future. However, sometimes you gotta just slap people in the face and say "wake up".
J Powell: "IS THAT A CHALLENGE?".
I'm DYING
You may want to check out David Fleming's works if you haven't already. Lean Logic and Surviving the Future. He was a true visionary on the end of growth and implications for our present market economy.
He's absolutely a huge inspiration of this video.
Your fish thought experiment is an interesting idea when you start to think about evolution taking over at capacity. The only option would be to cannabalize each other, leaving only the strongest to survive. This would create a rapid boom bust reproduction cycle until only a few species survive. The monsters that have lived at the top and a feeder fish that reproduces even faster. Is that how the Zerg were created? Have I been playing too much StarCraft? The answer to both is maybe.
LOL. I should watch some SC2 tourney vods to chill out. I wonder how much the game has changed in 20 years or so. I'm sure people are still playing it competitively. I was watching some WC3 videos the other day.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy If you ever decide to play it, it's free to play now. Plus there's a custom campaign that has all of wc3 plus cut content which is also free. If you ever install, add me. Username is the same but no numbers.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I was just thinking about your coop. What's your plan for winter? Isn't that coop a little small to hold enough heat in -40 degrees even with a small heater?
Could you please tell me what’s the bush in this video with pink yarrow-like flowers?
Spiraea japonica. Not edible, but when I saw the bee activity on it at my mother's place, I took a cutting to grow here.
Solar along with wind is incredibly inefficient (it's extremely expensive as well). Putting solar panels on your roof, is like putting a brand new car on your roof in terms of cost. This does not account for cost of the electric car as well! Being able to install solar panels also makes the assumption that you also own a house; which many people also cannot afford with the current state of things. There are very few viable alternatives to fossil fuels, which are being used to fuel all the electric cars being powered by the grid. Without suitable replacement technology, we will get nowhere with solving current energy woes. Californians (though green in some aspects) will face an energy crisis as they charge their electric cars, because the heat and overstrained energy grid is not meant to, or capable of, handling such energy usage. They have already dealt with brown outs in summers past before electric cars where a thing, but now it could get even worse.
So what are out current options? Hydro is a good alternative, but the Lake Mead situation is making it so that we cannot fully rely on water to be used to consumption and energy production at the same time, it's gotta be one or the other, and quite frankly people need drinking water just to survive.
Nuclear is also a good option, but as you said they take a long time to get online and there's been a bad rep for nuclear because of the 3 major incidents that have happened in the last 50 years regarding nuclear power plants: Chernobyl, 3 mile island, and Fukushima (or at least these are the ones i've heard of).
Solar is inefficient, but there's potential in heliostats which are just big mirrors reflecting the suns says into a tower to boil liquid sodium and generate electricity. This is probably best used in desert areas and can generally take up alot of space.
Wind is even more inefficient because yo have to rely on it being windy, which is not always the case. At least solar panels can be kind of consistent.
There are very few options of energy production, and this post was generally about energy consumption at home or something. Think about the kind of energy that is required to move goods or services. That's one of the major drivers of high cost in food prices. Can't move grain or fertilizer cause it's too expensive? The price of food goes up. Thus, oil is important for logistics until we can find a viable alternative.
Pretty bang on assessment. I think the solar numbers may be outdated though. The ROI for most solar installs is in the 7 to 12 year range with a guaranteed life expectancy (for most installers, you can demand this) of 25 years.
Then with electricity prices rising 4-6% per year, it's a pretty slam dunk investment IMO, especially if you can install it yourself.
The result I totally agree with though.
For electric vehicles, the EVs are a solution, but not the greatest one. The greatest one is walkable cities, mass transportation, and reducing the need to drive through work from home where at all possible.
Part of the energy solution is to change our expectations. Promote being awake and working during daylight hours. Modify how streets are illuminated. Promote working from home. Provide efficient public transport and make the roads bike safe by keeping large vehicles to specific roads and have parallel access roads for bikes. Convert existing single family homes into homes for various families by changing planning rules. Bring local farm products to the people by allowing farmer's markets, bartering by changing the regulations...
My thougths: more deaths through famine/war/sickness does reduce the population and may make it so theres more deaths in relation to births, it's better if people get to live longer to learn and get smart and wise, so they are productive members of society, and be happy! So, IMO, it would be better for everyone to change the amount of births (not the amount of deaths), so have people reproduce less. Less children being born, means slower growth of the total population, and more resources available to feed the children that ARE born and keep them healthy, and educate them. In short: regulating the amount of births means that other people don't need to die unnecessarily (through war/famine/unhealthy conditions).
I for example don't want to have kids (I'm a 30 year old female), this has multiple other reasons, but one of them is certainly that the world is too full of people IMO.
When every couple on average had 2 children max, the population wouldn't grow. If everyone agreed to this, and saw why it's necessary, that would be so great, but that's not how the world works. The governments would have to enforce it, and then people will no doubt resist it and try to hide kids for example... And then there's also large areas in the world where people don't have acces to pregnancy prevention methods/options.
For sure, the ideal life cycle is long, but births more controlled. More progress to humanity in this way.
Mother Nature and her husband, Reality will soon straighten things out and put us in our place. I look forward to it.
I do think growth could be sustainable if the economy follows the idea circulair economy things never keep growing for ever because alot of things die but they get reused by different things, like nature does so if we follow nature we could in my opinion go multi-planetarian where we could turn dead but life potential planets in living planets. But we’ll need to recover farm by farm industry by industry and completely stop with carbon emission. I’m 17 and in a few weeks i’ll be studying international business I finished high school and got my degree and I would like to start my own business and would like to help farmers understand ‘traditionel’ farming and make the industry more sustainable. Growth should not be meassured by only money, but also knowledge, drive, happiness, recovery from Challenges.
Key technology to enable this would be the development of bacteria or fungi which can break down plastics in a way that they could then be reprocessed and reused. Then fusion power to deal with the energy crisis. If we can get those soon enough, as well as carbon sequestering tech, it could be possible for a tech solution that saves us.
Have you tried making Jerusalem artichoke chips??? Soooo good!
Not yet actually, although many people have told me about it.
You have a lot of great points, but you are forgetting one important one. The rate of fertility is sinking by 1% per year. And the population is shrinking all over the world, not only the western world. Both for fertility reasons and because couples choos the have less children. In Japan, each couple is having 0,8 kids. Which means the population will be cut in half soon enough
This is true, and it's super important for reducing overshoot. However it's also predicted to be a really slow impact, so it's dubious if it will be too little too late to avoid collapse.
It also comes along with its own side effects which economists will often talk about, crashing our current financial systems, social security and old age pensions, etc.
It's a tough one because we NEED population reduction, but this particular aspect comes with crashes of its own.
I hope, that this video makes people also realise, that plastic - and everything made out of plastic (hint: shoes, clothes, furniture ,etc) are a finite resource, but that there are renewable alternatives, some of which are not vegan. And now I'll just leaving the opened can of worms riiiiiiiiiiiight here 😉
So many things to consider when trying to do the "reducing the footprint"-thing...
By the way, worms need oxygen, so, it's really lifesaving for them, to leave damn can open! 😜
My aunt still has my great grandparents sofa
Awesome 👌
Thanks for the video. I enjoyed it and I think it will be very useful to many people.
I'll play devils advocate on a few points. I suspect a decrease in population in the coming decades, perhaps quite stark.
Basic premise: As "peak" everything arrives, chaos/war risk increases famine/death result. As a society we are entering the "4th" generation of unhealthy lifestyles. Typically this generation gets extra screwed up, low fertility, high autism and generally sick people.
Human life is always looked at as a unit of measurement called "population" aka beings that are alive.. While very useful, there are other ways to look at human life.
if we use a measurement of a year of life as a healthy human, disease free, in excellent physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual health. We can call is a human prime year. Human prime years have been down-trending-- despite having higher age expectancy and more human beings on the planet.
With chaos increasing and fertility decreasing, human prime years will continue to decrease, at a much faster rate, and this should eventually be reflected in a new trend of population decrease.
I also think that whatever the near future holds, in this the 9th minute, so to speak, it is completely what we need to go through as a species. It will be one of those most pivotal moments of humanity.
I agree with many of these points. Please see responses to other similar comments for my reply.
I watched the entire video and you didn't mention capitalism at all. Capitalism requires constant growth. All the fixes you mentioned are just window dressing without addressing our economic system. It's a major oversight.
You know me, I'm as anti-cap as anyone. I wanted to keep this one as politically neutral as possible though
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy haha I know. And TH-cam is bound to mess with it if you call that out. You're doing the right thing. I just got grumpy haha.
I am curious about if we can shift our economic growth to be less based off of natural resources. Ie instead of consuming the latest trends we spend more on things like therapy, coaching, education which is just people talking and uses time as a resource rather than time and natural resources. I feel like we are kind of moving in this direction with more and more white collar jobs popping up
This is exactly what the 3rd industrial revolution seeks to do. Check out the amazing work of Jeremy Rifkin on this topic. Here's a fantastic video of his: th-cam.com/video/QX3M8Ka9vUA/w-d-xo.html&vl=en
I posted a link in response, but just incase youtube ghosts it (the algorithm doesn't like links) check out the 3rd industrial revolution videos from Jeremy Rifkin, for example on VICE channel. It does a good job explaining the little blurb that I added for a half a second in the middle of the video - which is centered around your very comment.
The ultimate limit to the carrying capacity of Earth is the radiation of waste heat. Even if we dramatically increase our efficiency by digitizing everyone and beaming in our power, we will eventually hit the limit of melt.
When talking about overpopulation, it's important to remember that some methods for reducing population actually make problems worse. War is a great example, while a large scale war might theoretically reduce population, it probably will just accelerate climate change and ecological disaster because modern wars are powered by fossil fuels and industrial production, they aren't just a meat grinder fought with spears.
A great comment 👍
If I remember right, from cultural anthropology, pre-war population to post war population, is about half. Essentially, conflict kicks humans into reproductive overdrive, so that the population is the same as it was before the war, in half the time it took the first time. For example, if it took 100 years to go from 500k to 1 million, war wipes out that half million, it will take ~50 years to go back to 1 million population.
What's needed to ethically shrink populations is the same as it's always been; secular public education, especially for women. The more educated people are, the smaller the family size.
Save Soil!
So basically; we need to grow the treeconomy!
Always :)
Have you ever heard of Austrian Economics? Seems like a more sustainable way to do economics. Embraces the growth and dips, both seen as positives for their own resets and successes.
Indeed, I think this is the only way. However the economy will collapse with it. Contract is maybe a better word. But that's going to happen anyways, by definition, as our current model is at odds with reality. So people are afraid of it.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I’ve always felt it was a terrible thing for the long term economy and both the short term and long term ecological environment, to print money and use debt. Every time you spend now, you steal from the future. Every time you keep printing to keep mining or keep chopping, you’re living outside reality and the hard facts of both the economy and ecology sustainably in the sense of the supply of resources. In other words, I feel the maturity of the people and peoples self-reliance skills would be better off if government and the citizenry were living within their means.
Even if we stop growing, we are still in overshoot. Even if we cut pollution by half or fossil fuels by half, we are still using up the earth much faster than it replenishes. We will move to zero growth and then to degrowth, not by choice, but because we have used up resource after resource of our planet. Pollution is using up a resource of the planet just as much as mining of a resource is.
It'd very likely that no actions we take now will prevent some sort of collapse. But I'm confident that our actions today still have time to mitigate the severity of it. More than that, I'm the type that refuses to back down and gets more aggressive when backed into a corner. I'm not the kind of person who concedes defeat. I thinknour actions still matter, and they matter more the sooner we start doing them.
❤️
You are an aerobic bacteria in an anaerobic world. 😁 Thank you for making this video!
LOL
When people are poor, they multiply more. when they are wealthy, fertility levels decrease. Apartment buildings decrease fertility. Population will take care of itself if we focus on providing everyone's needs in a way that makes them feel wealthy. When there is prosperity, the reproductive urge is less on average, and more people will join celibate holy orders. These are problems that can be solved without so much disruption as you think.
These are all part of the analysis that produced the population graph at the end of the video. There are indeed many factors that play into how population growth will continue, but I haven't seen a single estimate that ever reduces below a positive growth rate. It's very likely that various challenges we face going forward will also have large impacts that can "correct" the problem. For example, I never found any reference to loss of topsoil predictions in the studies, but that is obviously going to have huge impacts on food availability in 2100.
We probably will see a negative growth rate at some point, but hopefully we can smoothly sail into that and not crash into it. We do that by reducing consumption at all levels before we hit various limits. We definitely have a chance, but every day that we continue leading impossible lives, we make the incoming adjustments worse.
Earth overshoot day for 2022 is July 28th.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I consider that it's not our responsibility to worry about how to lower the world's population. We just need to live as symbiotically with nature as possible, and the cold, unsympathetic emergent intelligence that is the combined interaction of all ecosystems ("mother nature)" will take care of the rest, by killing us in droves, if necessary. I think that my philosophy differs from yours, in that you consider it your goal to make sure that your descendants live better than you. I don't make that my goal. I want my descendants to save their souls. It's good, if they have a good life, but it's impossible for everyone to always have a good life. In a way, what you are talking about is also perpetual growth.
I guess I just have faith that human population will eventually become a sine wave, with regular growth and depopulation patterns, just like every other species. Well, if we use technology to try to push the limits, it may pan out differently, but that would be stupid. If we all live the permaculture life, our cultures will be resilient and even antifragile to these patterns of turmoil stability.
P.S. Yeah the people that make those estimates aren't looking at reality, since they can't see the future. Unexpected events always occur, and they're usually destructive ones, because thermodynamics.
👍👍👍
Hi Keith. Normally I adore your videos but I think the perspective on this one is a bit out of date. I agree, it is impossible that an infinite population growth can occur on a finite planet. But urbanization is evidenced to drive enormous reductions in population growth - at present no industrialized economy has net population growth excluding immigration. Globally, there are varied estimates but we are facing stabilization or population decline between 9-11 billion, which is in this century.
However, we are not seeing corresponding reductions in resource use, which is because though we are becoming fewer, we are also continuing to become wealthier, and the most significant driver of resource consumption is wealth not population. (For evidence of this, consider India's total emissions compared to the US, or just look at carbon emissions of any country over time and see how it correlates to economic growth or population. The regression analyses are extremely clear). So I agree with your core message about solutions on a personal level, and I agree that we need collective action, but I don't know exactly what wrong should be looking for. I am constantly trying to find ways to build a resilient and non-exploitative economy that doesn't constantly demand increased consumption (from few or many people) (literally writing a paper on that for work right now), but I don't have good structural answers. While choosing to have no more than 2 children is definitely part of the solution, because population is not the principle driver of change, it is not enough.
Also I noticed you mentioned the economic challenges of a degrowth economy in one of your comments. It seems we're on the same page about the difficulties of that. Not sure if this is going to work, but I think that our best answer for supporting retirees despite declining population is moving the wealth that has emerged from increased economic productivity per unit of labour towards supporting the welfare of the elderly (ex: a tax on capital equivalent to the tax on labour). However, I am not sure how much additional productivity has actually occurred in the last 50 years or so, because I believe a lot of that has resulted from the expansion of formal economy to areas previously not financially valued (ex: the labour of women, various forms of environmental capital). I'm still thinking about it. There is enormous work to be done, but we have to move away from an overly simplistic view of the problem as one of population (a problem that is busy solving itself) to a laborious reimagining of economic systems.
Also also, sorry if this is rude, but I also think it is important to consider the legacy and history of ideas on these topics. The population view you laid out was first (that I know of) articulated by Thomas Malthus in An Essay on Population. There is intuitive merit to the idea of the conflict emerging from a linear supply curve (or a straight up limit to supply) and an exponential demand curve. But we should still remember where his ideas came from, which was an explicitly racist and colonial positon which aimed to provide ethical justification for the imperial exploitation of resources that blamed the poor for their use. Specifically, his political influence justified British actions during the Irish potato famine, which were premised on blaming the poor Irish catholics for their situation by framing them as lustful, sinful, and lacking self control/population control, and therefore at fault for their situation. As a result of this framing, the British decided not to send aid, and millions of Irish people died or emigrated. But the real kicker of this policy is that every year of the famine, Ireland still exported food, mainly beef, to Britain what would have happened if ideas about food/resources and population were not considered in such a limited context of colonialism and capitalism? And these forces are still incredibly powerful today. I understand the appeal fo these ideas, but when we talk about resources and population, we MUST remember the origins of the ideas to avoid falling into the same traps
Great posts, both of them. I mentioned in a few places, but the original length of this video was just under 3 hours long. I went into many details such as this. The video was very hard to get through and many tangents. The technological tangent was over 50 mins alone ajd went into details such as how carrying capacity isn't static but dynamic and changes with technology such as improved recycling, fusion power, etc.
However, one thing that every study has concluded is that (very likely due to the 3rd law of thermodynamics, entropy) that per capita resource spending is never below zero. I.e. each individual human is never reduced below being a net consumer.
Growth rates of population CAN go below zero, and likely will while our current demographic problem plays itself out (which itself is a feedback loop that causes the demographic problem to actually get worse. Swe other comment replies that discuss this. China is especially prone to collapse in this regard, due to their child birth limits, which have cause extreme discrepancies in age demographics which will be large economic problems when those retirees exit the work force and must be carried economically by children who don't exist due to the child restriction laws).
It is also true that India is likely to follow the west in terms of entering into a regime of population decline as they experience their industrial revolution and subsequent technology revolution. These may play out faster than they did for the west, due to the fact that they can build 3rd industrial revolution cities from the get go, instead of converting 2nd to 3rd like the west must do. Jeremy Rifkin does excellent work on this topic.
Cont
The problem is the timing of when these things will play out. This is the core reason why in many parts of the video I explicitly say that the problems are solvable, we just need to get our heads out of the sand and act. The actions I mention are not themselves perfect solutions but rather one's that flatten the curve.
The reason for this is that if we don't, then we will be like the fish who believe they have innocations that will save them, but if the innovations come at 1:10PM, then they are still toast. It's only if they can start rolling them out at 12:45pm that they maybe have a chance of approaching the limit in a way that doesn't cause collapse.
So where are we? Many people think we are at 1:00pm, such as the linked study that estimates human population capacity of 7B for subsidence levels of consumption.
🙏
Did you chip in for the Georgia guidestones?
The example with the fish is interesting, it is true that even if the fish discover new planets, the accelerating rate of change will make their growth unsustainable. I think this is where the analogy breaks down though. Fish don't change in the same way that humans change, in many situations humans have accelerated their development of technology in ways that actually outpace increasing consumption. For example in computing we've seen Moore's law in affect and similar increased technological development that have allowed the average person more access to computing, despite increase in population.
This example may well be cherry-picking, but if it is at least possible in concept that human ingenuity can outpace human consumption, I don't think it's justified to say a big correcting must happen.
The fish analogy seems to imply that resource consumption and population have to move in the same direction, but my point is that this might not always be true
While it is true that technology and innovation can reduce consumption, it has never and likely will never be able to reduce it below zero. Even human population, when allowed to reduce growth to 0.1% is still unsustainable. Growth must be reduced to 0 or below, and resource consumption the same.
Recycling must be reduced to 100% of all materials, recycled to 100% return, with 0 energy inputs both for the processing AND transport. These things are simply not possible.
This is the entire core of the 1970 MIT study, which is quote interesting and a recommended read.
So while technology can flatten out the exponential function, it will never reduce it. Thus, longterm the problem still leads towards infinite expansion.
What DOES trigger and reduce this below zero are all the terrible things mentioned in this video, which bring our imaginary economy of growth (the impossible keynesian economics) crashing into reality.
The speed at which this happens is entirely based on technology and our actions to reduce consumption as low as possible. However the 3rd law of thermodynamics will never get this below zero, and this is fundamentally why any constant growth, no matter now small, it if is above 0 it is unsustainable.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy That's definitely something to think about, thank you for responding.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Exactly; and the technological development and innovation only work if we address Jevons paradox; that is, purposefully reducing energy production in lockstep with efficiency increases.
If the tech development and innovation simply result in greater energy and material resource consumption than we're pushed further into unsustainability. There is a vicious cycle of obligatory technologies requiring greater energy and material resources to support, which then lead to more obligatory technologies, etc.
What I mean by an "obligatory technology" is one where a nation or culture or peoples has to adopt the technology or be rendered obsolete historically. The plow, the gun, fossil fuels, nuclear weapons, and biological warfare are all examples of obligatory technology that is part of a positive feedback loop of: Technological Innovation -> Increased resource and energy demand -> increased competition -> new innovation -> increased resource and energy demand -> increased competition -> etc. If a nation/society/peoples chooses not to adopt these technologies for cultural or moral reasons, these same technologies offer advantages far beyond what can be equalized elsewhere.
That is to say; many technologies carry a negative weighting to their very existence due to the energetic and material basis required to support their existence and the competitive benefit that they convey leads them to being obligatory technologies. That is to say; innovation carries massive risks of it's own, every time it comes up with an obligatory technology it increases the foundational energetic and material costs of a continued society.
8:30 HAHAHA poor fishy
Grocery store food is hardly even healthy. Fresh grocery store produce is nutrient deficient compared to homegrown stuff! Even more of a reason to start a 1 acre farm!
First: Eat the rich.
There, now you have a bit of time to solve the problem.
Love it.
This might sound like a conspiracy but, unless capitalism fails as a model we're all doomed to follow those fish fate. sadly that earn-more/consume-more feedback loop supported by world wide marketing campaigns will put all possible efforts to keep sustainability movement and ideas from snowballing.
Progress is like that bacteria that thrives in any type of conditions and easily outgrowth any other life (read ideas) out there. Most probably the moment will come when just living sustainably on a family basis would be not enough anymore. And counting at what propaganda can do to human mind - it not safe anywhere anymore anywhen.
Sorry for depressive thoughts, but keeping in mind exponential growth, for the humanity that last minute till 1PM could be just around the corner. And then what?
P.S.
If there is a chance that humanity at some point will invent AI that will kill us all then the only way out is to cease any possible research in that way right now. Coz otherwise sooner or later we're all dead no matter what is the speed of those researches. It feels like economy growth and overall human civilisation progress is the same. So no matter what is the speed, unless it decelerates, the collapse is inevidable.
Several studies are estimating that the carrying capacity of the earth is 7B. So it's very likely it's 1:00PM for humanity right now.
That Wren project is awesome and those fish are incredibly smart lol! I try to talk to people about all this stuff but I find a lot of people don't want to even think about it. I try to approach it delicately
For sure. It's hard because people need to want to discuss it, but how do you reach people who don't? And this is really an all hands on deck moment.
I hate to break it to you kiddo but the authorities are the ones cutting the forest
Absolutely correct