Supination allows Sinner to exploit his long levers. A detailed look. Original Source Video: Haptic Kinetics (Creative Commons license) • Jannick Sinner Forehan... www.buymeacoffee.com/3.5to5.5
A leading elbow helps delay the hand/racquet throw until the very last moment. The lack of power in forehand most of us experienced in our development years has something to do with the hitting hand overtakes the hip and shoulder too early. Thanks to Sinner's forehand, for me personally, I finally understood the sequence to achieve effortless power: very loose grip, hip drive, gentle racquet throw with a leading elbow, long extension through the contact, high elbow finish. The feeling is almost magical and the ball feels very light. For the forehand, the elbow movement is the key, where the kinetic chain breaks down most often.
Nicely put! Yes, it feels like magic! Delaying the contact increases time for force application & acceleration, good idea for another video!.. thanks for your comment!
Great description of "Maintaining the LAG": 'A leading elbow helps delay the hand/racquet throw until the very last moment '. Supination is one of the keys for "Creating the LAG" but is the the Elbow that really keeps the External Rotation activated until right before "Releasing the LAG", via External Rotation and Pronation ("Long-axis rotation: the missing link in proximal-to-distal segmental sequencing" ). Like spreading butter on toast, you mean?! :) 'The feeling is almost magical and the ball feels very light. '
LOL. Guaranteed tennis elbow if your timing is off and/or your forearm isn't muscular enough to execute this. Excellent reference video for 4.0+ USTA level players. Also it won't work unless the ball hit to you carries a certain level or pace/spin. IMHO.
Hey, great comment.. tennis elbow is a risk.. so important to emphasise the hip, core and shoulder connection for the drive. Any elbow pain is a warning. A 60 yo student hit several 80 mph topspin FHs recently, from dropped balls, using this technique.
I must be missing something, everyone does this ( myself included ) Sinner of course does it his unique way, but again most have their own way of doing it …..
Great that you do it.. Lower level club players hit further back, to the side, and miss the benefits of forward contact. It can turn a B grade forehand into an A grade forehand. Thanks for your comment!
Congrats for the interesting analysis video. I wrote a comment asking you to put the link to the 'Sinner FH slo mo' video in the description and hopefully add an End-title card with it, just as did with this video. Probably the comment was deleted due to the links provided :( Tks.
Is Sinner using wrist to rotate the racquet to get that flip which also pushes to elbow to achieve that position? Or he is getting that effect with forearm?basically I’m asking to get that supinating position he is using wrist or forearm rotation? Great video and explains
Great question.. I think it's a combination of his forward weight transfer (& racket inertia), arm rotation and wrist.. all perfectly timed. What are your thoughts? 😃
Glad it was helpful! Yes, it facilitates forward contact which is supported by body weight, the shoulder and the structure of the body. This is very strong. Plus the momentum built up in the racket can overcome the ball's momentum .. (both linear and angular). Thanks for your comment! 😃
Very similar to the golf swing with respect to supination and external rotation. Leading with the hips, as in golf, critical to pull it all off. Excuse the pun.
Yes, it's a thing, perhaps best described as external shoulder rotation, as per this Gemini article.. g.co/gemini/share/5cba7dc79790 Thanks for your comment!
Not super close.. Yeah the camera angle and also the fact that the rear hip has come around and closes the apparent gap. Can see this with Djok here th-cam.com/video/CwNXpIlBDXU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=s91zscBjGWmxHEv4 Thanks for your comment!
Wzll done.... I would add too, that Sinner's material helps as well, his older racket apparently modified with weight and today's stings are so important. Bravo for your excellent video.
@@3.5_to_5.5 Some injury but he had a huge public fallout after dating a smoking hot kpop star and throwing a tantrum against a Thai player in Thailand smashing racquet and refusing to shake hands after the match. The Korean public turned against him. He's been back playing again but haven't seem him around. For some reason Harris seems to not play well against Kwon.
Good question! I'm making a video about this soon.. The short answer is that as the player moves forward, the racket's inertia holds the racket back, so the wrist accommodates by rotating and extending back, while dropping due to gravity. (assuming a relaxed wrist). You can see the forward weight shift occur first in this video. But it can also have an active wrist-movement component! Thanks for your comment!
@@3.5_to_5.5 That's the key question! In nearly all Tennis videos about the modern Forehand is said that the racket lag is automatically created by bringing the hips forward and holding the racket loosely. Never happened with my forehand :-) Now we see that Jannik because of the take back position with a pronation of the wrist it is absolutely necessary to make a aktiv supination of the forearm to generate a hug racket lag.
@@3.5_to_5.5 Yes, I think they have wrist supination motion so the racket head looks like that. If they had a wrist pronation motion to overcome the inertia and gravity of the racket head, it wouldn't be the same. This is not a classic forehand, so I think many pros will have wrist supination movements in the backswing.
@@k.h.3905 Thanks for your comments.. it's a tricky question.. I have a video on this coming soon. 😀 th-cam.com/video/nP6XVG5AJcU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Z-3Dg76XtcmdIKlc
What an awesome display of good content crammed in a tiny format. So pleased go have found this. A gem of an analysis. Thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for your comment. 😃
A leading elbow helps delay the hand/racquet throw until the very last moment. The lack of power in forehand most of us experienced in our development years has something to do with the hitting hand overtakes the hip and shoulder too early. Thanks to Sinner's forehand, for me personally, I finally understood the sequence to achieve effortless power: very loose grip, hip drive, gentle racquet throw with a leading elbow, long extension through the contact, high elbow finish. The feeling is almost magical and the ball feels very light. For the forehand, the elbow movement is the key, where the kinetic chain breaks down most often.
Nicely put! Yes, it feels like magic!
Delaying the contact increases time for force application & acceleration, good idea for another video!..
thanks for your comment!
Great description of "Maintaining the LAG": 'A leading elbow helps delay the hand/racquet throw until the very last moment '.
Supination is one of the keys for "Creating the LAG" but is the the Elbow that really keeps the External Rotation activated until right before "Releasing the LAG", via External Rotation and Pronation ("Long-axis rotation: the missing link in proximal-to-distal segmental sequencing" ).
Like spreading butter on toast, you mean?! :) 'The feeling is almost magical and the ball feels very light. '
A clearly demonstrated important forehand element.
Oh thanks! I enjoyed making it. Took about 20 hours to refine and keep it concise and uncluttered 😂
please alcaraze~
I can see it all go down now, Sinner Opens up the Racquet Face, He is putting 'Soup in It' or Supinate
Haha, no doubt it would be Stracciatella..
great great great video! Thank you!!
Glad you liked it!
LOL. Guaranteed tennis elbow if your timing is off and/or your forearm isn't muscular enough to execute this.
Excellent reference video for 4.0+ USTA level players.
Also it won't work unless the ball hit to you carries a certain level or pace/spin. IMHO.
Hey, great comment.. tennis elbow is a risk.. so important to emphasise the hip, core and shoulder connection for the drive. Any elbow pain is a warning.
A 60 yo student hit several 80 mph topspin FHs recently, from dropped balls, using this technique.
I must be missing something, everyone does this ( myself included ) Sinner of course does it his unique way, but again most have their own way of doing it …..
Great that you do it.. Lower level club players hit further back, to the side, and miss the benefits of forward contact. It can turn a B grade forehand into an A grade forehand. Thanks for your comment!
That’s why he finishes at the same level of the shoulder and not over as the common belief.
I would break my arm if I tried leading with my elbow like that! I wouldn't suggest this for anyone unless it's natural for you.
A good coach helps a lot with advanced technique. Thanks for your comment!
Nah the body would adapt to it
Congrats for the interesting analysis video. I wrote a comment asking you to put the link to the 'Sinner FH slo mo' video in the description and hopefully add an End-title card with it, just as did with this video. Probably the comment was deleted due to the links provided :( Tks.
Done! Let me know if that's what you wanted :)
Extra like. Yes, greatly appreciated, for sure is a win-win! I guess you had to learn a new YT trick :)
So, what's your take on Emma's FH vs Janick's?
@@HapticKinetics hmm.. would the suggestion of more long axis rotation be appropriate? 😅
@@3.5_to_5.5 you bit dangerous, eh? picking-up new stuff too quickly :)
Is Sinner using wrist to rotate the racquet to get that flip which also pushes to elbow to achieve that position? Or he is getting that effect with forearm?basically I’m asking to get that supinating position he is using wrist or forearm rotation? Great video and explains
Great question.. I think it's a combination of his forward weight transfer (& racket inertia), arm rotation and wrist.. all perfectly timed. What are your thoughts? 😃
Yep all,but I think he is exclusively rotating wrist/forearm and at same time pulling forward
@@narsimha1089 Video coming soon on this tricky topic .. 🙏
Pretty standard modern topspin forehand. Most ATP and even WTA players do this, with slight variations from each other’s.
Agreed.. I made this video as an informative reference for the competent club player aspiring to improve 👌
Cheers Andy
Lendl basically did the same
Ivan, what a player .. 8 grand slams!
Nice to see an under reported technique explained. Presumably the elbow leading helps keep the racquet stable through contact for a longer time?
Glad it was helpful!
Yes, it facilitates forward contact which is supported by body weight, the shoulder and the structure of the body. This is very strong. Plus the momentum built up in the racket can overcome the ball's momentum .. (both linear and angular). Thanks for your comment! 😃
B-but Moratoglou said bent arm makes you lose power 😮
/s
There are many ways to hit a good forehand, depending on your attributes and style. 😊
Very similar to the golf swing with respect to supination and external rotation. Leading with the hips, as in golf, critical to pull it all off. Excuse the pun.
Very similar concepts yes.. Showing students how to swing a golf club is a handy skill adjunct, as is frisbee throwing, juggling and yoga. 😊
he uses full western grip, that's why ..
Strong grip definitely.. at least strong eastern to semi western. Thanks for your comment.
@@3.5_to_5.5 no more atp player of this generation uses eastern forehand grip ..
@@attybong agreed 👍🙏
how do you feel about supination of the serve?
Yes, it's a thing, perhaps best described as external shoulder rotation, as per this Gemini article..
g.co/gemini/share/5cba7dc79790
Thanks for your comment!
'@@3.5_to_5.5 Cool. Could you pls also share the Gemini GPT 'FH Supination' prompted answer - the one included at the end of this video? Tks.
Elbow very close to body...or is it the camera angle
Not super close.. Yeah the camera angle and also the fact that the rear hip has come around and closes the apparent gap. Can see this with Djok here th-cam.com/video/CwNXpIlBDXU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=s91zscBjGWmxHEv4
Thanks for your comment!
Wzll done.... I would add too, that Sinner's material helps as well, his older racket apparently modified with weight and today's stings are so important. Bravo for your excellent video.
Good points 👌
Being 1.88m tall is handy too 😅
He is probably actually 193 cm@@3.5_to_5.5
Well done 👍🏽
Thanks Jan! 😁
Kwon Soon Woo does this as well.
He had a good win over Lloyd Harris in Busan. Has been injured?
@@3.5_to_5.5 Some injury but he had a huge public fallout after dating a smoking hot kpop star and throwing a tantrum against a Thai player in Thailand smashing racquet and refusing to shake hands after the match. The Korean public turned against him. He's been back playing again but haven't seem him around. For some reason Harris seems to not play well against Kwon.
Do most pros use their wrists in the backswing?
Good question! I'm making a video about this soon..
The short answer is that as the player moves forward, the racket's inertia holds the racket back, so the wrist accommodates by rotating and extending back, while dropping due to gravity. (assuming a relaxed wrist). You can see the forward weight shift occur first in this video.
But it can also have an active wrist-movement component!
Thanks for your comment!
@@3.5_to_5.5 That's the key question! In nearly all Tennis videos about the modern Forehand is said that the racket lag is automatically created by bringing the hips forward and holding the racket loosely. Never happened with my forehand :-) Now we see that Jannik because of the take back position with a pronation of the wrist it is absolutely necessary to make a aktiv supination of the forearm to generate a hug racket lag.
@@3.5_to_5.5 Yes, I think they have wrist supination motion so the racket head looks like that. If they had a wrist pronation motion to overcome the inertia and gravity of the racket head, it wouldn't be the same. This is not a classic forehand, so I think many pros will have wrist supination movements in the backswing.
@@k.h.3905 Thanks for your comments.. it's a tricky question.. I have a video on this coming soon. 😀
th-cam.com/video/nP6XVG5AJcU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Z-3Dg76XtcmdIKlc
The only reason he does it is for looks. He uncoils his arm before he swings so it doesn’t do anything for him.
It really works! Like skipping a stone on water. 😊
@@3.5_to_5.5 ok