Excellent video! I'm kind of catching up on viewing more of your channel, I like how you presented us to your industries. I also take the same approach on my small layout... Have a great Thanksgiving !!! Perry
Good subject and info, getting to this phase myself. The Portland Nabisco Plant is part of the area I work in, as a Carman for UP. We occasionally go the to retrieve EOTs, work on stuck doors etc. As a teenager, my dad was the regular Engineer on the Kenton job, the Nabisco plant is off Kenton Yard. I would ride with dad several times a year. Nabisco was always very busy with many cars in and out. The old Security Guard would always come out to greet us. "Oh, I see you boy is with you today, hold on." back into the plant he would go, to return with a box of broken cookie, or bad label packages. he was a very nice man.
Thanks for the great comment. Nothing better than a real life story about railroading... from a real railroader. Small world. Thanks for sharing and for watching! Cool that your dad was an engineer on that industry. Love the story about the guard and cookies.
Thanks for the shout out Paul. I just realized you are the Paul that lives near me lol wow you have made some awesome progress on the layout. We really need to meet up sometime with Don. Cheers!
Yeah I didn’t realize it was your layout when I first looked at your ADM facility post, but then it clicked when I saw your most recent video with the key. Your layout looks outstanding. We’ll definitely connect soon at @ThePWMRR. Thanks for the comment!
I consider myself as a prototype freelance modeler. This is a very good explanation of the link of prototype to model railroad operations. Love your work and this has given me impetus to do something similar so as to give my operators some authenticity to why they are switching certain industries and how the layout ties back to the prototype. The clip is excellent and thanks for sharing.
great layout; I really like the prototypical approach you took and taking individual "industries" from different places to create a single layout. I'm working on something similar and the approach you used aligns with how I am attempting to approach it. I think it's especially important for a "smaller" switching layout to have spot-specific industries, and multiple car types for industries. amazing work
Thanks for the kind comments. Yes, having multiple different spots per industry is great on a switching layout. It’s also generally what you see in the real world. I couldn’t find a perfect prototype location in the southern New England area, so I went with this approach to have the types of industries I wanted for switching and just for that nice industrial feel. Glad you liked the video. Keep me posted on your layout!
I like the commentary on the Industries telimgl us what your plan is and inspiration on them. Everything seems to make sense and coming out nice. Also people in the comments need to remember we have to compress sizes in our scales. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the nice comment and for watching. Yes, we do have to compress reality to make it work in a layout. Unless we have 1:1 space, which we don’t. Happy New Year.
I am working on a 2x12 shelf layout set in Spokane Washington in the 60's with a interchange with Canadian Pacific and Northern Pacific. Using 40 foot cars.
Great railroad choices. Hopefully you can get some ideas from my videos given the size you are planning. I was going to do 24” but it was more because of space that I went with 20”. The extra 4” will give you a bit more space. Be sure to leave a few inches between the front tracks and the edge of the layout. It’s worth it if there is ever a derail. Also looks better. I’d love to see the progress and exchange ideas.
As I struggle in the planning stages of my first layout - focused somewhere in the West Coast of the US - your video gives me a lot to think about during this process. Unfortunately for me, I like the several diesel eras, beginning with the FP7s of the late 50's - early 60s, and then the late 70s - 90's, and finally 2000- present. And what I was trying to do is lean into the late 80s, or 90s, and move forward in time with rail served areas and industries that have essentially remained in business from the late 80s onwards (-more or less). However, trying to bridge that span of two decades or so, and remain somewhat prototypical -n a non-geographically limited manner might be too difficult whether it's somewhere in the PNW, or in the Greater Los Angeles area (-which are my areas of interest). So, I'll have to listen to this video several more times, and look at your other videos to try and figure this out.
Glad you are finding the content useful! There is no right answer. I began with the same challenge. I love the old New Haven RR but I also wanted to model an era I was familiar with (late 80s-early 2000s). After much debate with myself, I decided to just go with the more modern era. It keeps the layout more consistent and prototypical. I can always run a NH engine or 2 when I want to scratch that itch. Keep me posted on what you end up deciding. Thanks for watching!
@@HartfordWhaler Really appreciate that feedback. So just to clarify, going with "the more modern era", do you mean a) the 80s-early 2000s, or b) the 2000s? Your idea to scratch your old New Haven RR itch is a good one, because my itch is the ATSF FP7ABBA (I bought the Athearn Genesis set a few years ago) and the Southern Pacific passenger version, or their GP9 passenger service diesel locos. If I go a similar route, i.e., 80s and onward, then I can attempt to begin my first layout project by trying to model a rail served logistics warehouse that I worked in a few years back. We received truck, and rail freight for a couple of large food manufacturing companies. I hated the job, it was temporary, but always enjoyed watching the process of waiting for the switchers to shove, or remove boxcars from our loading docks, and then us trying to (un)load products as quickly as possible. I applied to the railroads a couple of times, but unless you had family on the inside, there was little hope of being hired, unless you wanted to work for the bridge and builder crew in some god forsaken location. LOL
@@What_If_We_Tried railroad work is always family connections. For modern, on my layout, it’s closer to late ‘90s-early 2000s. I like 80s because I was really into the local hartford and new haven CT Conrail and Amtrak trains back then
Paul, very good points and outline of why you selected the industries you did. Just as you have done, I feel it is better to have just a few industries with multiple specific car spots as opposed to several smaller industries that would not logically not be rail served. Larger industries help a layout look more prototypical. I can see a switch job on your layout taking an hour of more to complete. You have a great layout and look forward to seeing more videos.-Tom
8’ will work fine if you plan it well. Sometimes less is more. Keep me posted, I’d love to see what you come up with! Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching.
Nice, and well thought-out. One thing I would add is to consider the proportions of what would be delivered to an industry. You mention Bombaci Foods as receiving deliveries of salt and flour, but I don't think an industry of that size would receive salt by rail. Most food is less than 1% salt so one railcar of salt would be enough to make 100 railcars of finished product. Or, to put it another way, if you're making 30 tons of food a day, you'd only get through one railcar's worth of salt in a year.
Fair point and good insights for other viewers also. Thanks for positing. The good thing with that industry is I could change it from salt to 2 deliveries of flour. Don’t need to change a thing other than my imagination. I didn’t do sugar because that comes via the corn syrup. I have read that bakeries take salt via hopper but perhaps you are right that the size of the bakery would determine that. In my case I could also assume the first delivery is flour and the second corn meal. Or just 2 deliveries of flour. Thanks for the post and for the nice comment. Also thanks for watching.
@@HartfordWhaler Yeah, that's the good thing about that kind of industry. The hoppers could be delivering anything, and it wouldn't change the railroading. I vote for jelly beans. 😁
exactly bring in flour (there are many types and grades) and other grains, in hoppers. Bring the salt in bagged in boxcars. That would be the more likely way (look at the Salt plants like along the great Salt Lake.) Salt in covered hoppers is mostly for road salt and mining and ore processing.
Just a note from someone who is a home baker. For cakes and cake like product's large quantities of sugar are used. Sugar is what creates the texture of the cake. Corn syrup is added to retain moistur, and that fresh texture. Think of the difference between crisp crunchy cookies and soft moist cookies. Like your RR and I am a new subscriber. Good comment about era appropriate structures as my cutoff time is 1960, so my structures and cars would be totally different, but the same principles apply.
Great video, very informative, thanks very much! My layout is a similar size, but in N scale, I have a bakery, cold store, machine tools and a propane dealer. I'm quite new to this, but it seems that I followed a similar ethos to you, with multiple spots per industry and lots of switching opportunities. On a busy day, it can take as long as an hour to switch an 8 or 9 car train, the 5 car run around increases the complexity somewhat! I'm still in the building phase, so just track down and getting the operations working properly, I wondered how you do your operations? Do you have just the one job (turn I guess), out from staging, to the layout, switch and return? Or multiple jobs? I've got one turn setup currently, and having ran it a few times, I'd like to add another, maybe I can simulate a westbound train from my staging and using a spare track, simulate a transfer to an eastbound train from imaginary staying 🤔 I'd be interested to know how many jobs you have on your layout?
Sounds like a nice set up. I did have n scale earlier but it’s just easier for me to handle ho now. The upside of course is you get quite a bit more track and space with n. On my layout, I have 2 inbound/interchange tracks. One holds 5 cars and an engine and the other holds 4 and an engine. So one switching job is to take the cut of 5 cars out to the industries and exchange those cars with what’s at the industries. Then what I bring back from the industries goes back into the interchange track to be taken away by the interchange rr. Then I can take out the 4 car cut from the other interchange track and switch the remaining cars at the industries. It’s as if the second cut is the second day of operations on the rr. So, between the 2 interchange tracks, I can switch out all 9 car spots. If that makes sense. I can easily spend 3hrs by myself if I pace it in prototypical time. Also, after each car cut is switched, I change engines and the one I was using has to go to the fueling pad for fuel and service. Adds another dimension. Would be good to see your layout as it progresses. Thanks for watching and for the comment.
Both your cold storage and food processor requires refrigeration. Large plants use anhydrous ammonia as the refrigerant. Add a vertical tank to both, and you have another opportunity to deliver product to these locations.
Yes I operate with a local group where we rotate between everyone’s layouts. Mostly we operate on @ThePWMRR layout since he has the largest (and nicest) layout for multiple operators. I can have 2-3 operators on mine. If one is conductor and one engineer and a third guy can organize the inbound/interchange tracks. It also works well with just 1 when I need down time. Thanks for the comment.
Thank you for visiting my channel! Please be sure to subscribe:
www.youtube.com/@HartfordWhaler?sub_confirmation=1
Excellent video! I'm kind of catching up on viewing more of your channel, I like how you presented us to your industries. I also take the same approach on my small layout... Have a great Thanksgiving !!! Perry
Thanks Perry! Happy Thanksgiving to you!
Good subject and info, getting to this phase myself.
The Portland Nabisco Plant is part of the area I work in, as a Carman for UP. We occasionally go the to retrieve EOTs, work on stuck doors etc. As a teenager, my dad was the regular Engineer on the Kenton job, the Nabisco plant is off Kenton Yard. I would ride with dad several times a year. Nabisco was always very busy with many cars in and out. The old Security Guard would always come out to greet us. "Oh, I see you boy is with you today, hold on." back into the plant he would go, to return with a box of broken cookie, or bad label packages. he was a very nice man.
Thanks for the great comment. Nothing better than a real life story about railroading... from a real railroader. Small world. Thanks for sharing and for watching! Cool that your dad was an engineer on that industry. Love the story about the guard and cookies.
Great video and thought processes. Looking forward to catching up on your other videos, subbed.
Glad you enjoyed and thank you for subscribing! Welcome to the channel. Lots more in the works.
Thanks for the shout out Paul. I just realized you are the Paul that lives near me lol wow you have made some awesome progress on the layout. We really need to meet up sometime with Don. Cheers!
Yeah I didn’t realize it was your layout when I first looked at your ADM facility post, but then it clicked when I saw your most recent video with the key. Your layout looks outstanding. We’ll definitely connect soon at @ThePWMRR. Thanks for the comment!
I consider myself as a prototype freelance modeler. This is a very good explanation of the link of prototype to model railroad operations. Love your work and this has given me impetus to do something similar so as to give my operators some authenticity to why they are switching certain industries and how the layout ties back to the prototype. The clip is excellent and thanks for sharing.
Thank you! I really appreciate the comment. Glad it was helpful. Keep me posted on your progress.
great layout; I really like the prototypical approach you took and taking individual "industries" from different places to create a single layout. I'm working on something similar and the approach you used aligns with how I am attempting to approach it. I think it's especially important for a "smaller" switching layout to have spot-specific industries, and multiple car types for industries. amazing work
Thanks for the kind comments. Yes, having multiple different spots per industry is great on a switching layout. It’s also generally what you see in the real world. I couldn’t find a perfect prototype location in the southern New England area, so I went with this approach to have the types of industries I wanted for switching and just for that nice industrial feel. Glad you liked the video. Keep me posted on your layout!
I like the commentary on the Industries telimgl us what your plan is and inspiration on them. Everything seems to make sense and coming out nice. Also people in the comments need to remember we have to compress sizes in our scales. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the nice comment and for watching. Yes, we do have to compress reality to make it work in a layout. Unless we have 1:1 space, which we don’t. Happy New Year.
Great industries on your layout.
Thank you! They need some finishing touches, but getting there. Thanks for watching and for the nice comment.
Enjoyed your approach to selecting your modeled industries…did a similar approach to a couple of mine…Happy New Year
Thanks. I’ve been watching your channel also. Great layout and enjoyable content. Thanks for checking out my posts.
I am working on a 2x12 shelf layout set in Spokane Washington in the 60's with a interchange with Canadian Pacific and Northern Pacific. Using 40 foot cars.
Great railroad choices. Hopefully you can get some ideas from my videos given the size you are planning. I was going to do 24” but it was more because of space that I went with 20”. The extra 4” will give you a bit more space. Be sure to leave a few inches between the front tracks and the edge of the layout. It’s worth it if there is ever a derail. Also looks better. I’d love to see the progress and exchange ideas.
As I struggle in the planning stages of my first layout - focused somewhere in the West Coast of the US - your video gives me a lot to think about during this process.
Unfortunately for me, I like the several diesel eras, beginning with the FP7s of the late 50's - early 60s, and then the late 70s - 90's, and finally 2000- present. And what I was trying to do is lean into the late 80s, or 90s, and move forward in time with rail served areas and industries that have essentially remained in business from the late 80s onwards (-more or less).
However, trying to bridge that span of two decades or so, and remain somewhat prototypical -n a non-geographically limited manner might be too difficult whether it's somewhere in the PNW, or in the Greater Los Angeles area (-which are my areas of interest).
So, I'll have to listen to this video several more times, and look at your other videos to try and figure this out.
Glad you are finding the content useful! There is no right answer. I began with the same challenge. I love the old New Haven RR but I also wanted to model an era I was familiar with (late 80s-early 2000s). After much debate with myself, I decided to just go with the more modern era. It keeps the layout more consistent and prototypical. I can always run a NH engine or 2 when I want to scratch that itch. Keep me posted on what you end up deciding. Thanks for watching!
@@HartfordWhaler Really appreciate that feedback. So just to clarify, going with "the more modern era", do you mean a) the 80s-early 2000s, or b) the 2000s?
Your idea to scratch your old New Haven RR itch is a good one, because my itch is the ATSF FP7ABBA (I bought the Athearn Genesis set a few years ago) and the Southern Pacific passenger version, or their GP9 passenger service diesel locos.
If I go a similar route, i.e., 80s and onward, then I can attempt to begin my first layout project by trying to model a rail served logistics warehouse that I worked in a few years back.
We received truck, and rail freight for a couple of large food manufacturing companies. I hated the job, it was temporary, but always enjoyed watching the process of waiting for the switchers to shove, or remove boxcars from our loading docks, and then us trying to (un)load products as quickly as possible.
I applied to the railroads a couple of times, but unless you had family on the inside, there was little hope of being hired, unless you wanted to work for the bridge and builder crew in some god forsaken location. LOL
@@What_If_We_Tried railroad work is always family connections. For modern, on my layout, it’s closer to late ‘90s-early 2000s. I like 80s because I was really into the local hartford and new haven CT Conrail and Amtrak trains back then
Nice video, thanks for sharing. Cheers
Thanks for the comment and for watching. Glad you liked it!
Paul, very good points and outline of why you selected the industries you did. Just as you have done, I feel it is better to have just a few industries with multiple specific car spots as opposed to several smaller industries that would not logically not be rail served. Larger industries help a layout look more prototypical. I can see a switch job on your layout taking an hour of more to complete. You have a great layout and look forward to seeing more videos.-Tom
Thanks Tom! Really appreciate the comment. I enjoy your TH-cam content, so appreciate you checking out my video.
What a great show layout
Thanks!
Hi Paul this looks great , I like all the detail you included . I'm about to start a shelf layout, only it will be around 8 foot long.
8’ will work fine if you plan it well. Sometimes less is more. Keep me posted, I’d love to see what you come up with! Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching.
@@HartfordWhaler will do . I look forward to starting it.
Nice, and well thought-out. One thing I would add is to consider the proportions of what would be delivered to an industry. You mention Bombaci Foods as receiving deliveries of salt and flour, but I don't think an industry of that size would receive salt by rail. Most food is less than 1% salt so one railcar of salt would be enough to make 100 railcars of finished product. Or, to put it another way, if you're making 30 tons of food a day, you'd only get through one railcar's worth of salt in a year.
Fair point and good insights for other viewers also. Thanks for positing. The good thing with that industry is I could change it from salt to 2 deliveries of flour. Don’t need to change a thing other than my imagination. I didn’t do sugar because that comes via the corn syrup. I have read that bakeries take salt via hopper but perhaps you are right that the size of the bakery would determine that. In my case I could also assume the first delivery is flour and the second corn meal. Or just 2 deliveries of flour. Thanks for the post and for the nice comment. Also thanks for watching.
@@HartfordWhaler Yeah, that's the good thing about that kind of industry. The hoppers could be delivering anything, and it wouldn't change the railroading. I vote for jelly beans. 😁
Preferably Jelly Belly brand!
exactly bring in flour (there are many types and grades) and other grains, in hoppers. Bring the salt in bagged in boxcars.
That would be the more likely way (look at the Salt plants like along the great Salt Lake.) Salt in covered hoppers is
mostly for road salt and mining and ore processing.
Just a note from someone who is a home baker. For cakes and cake like product's large quantities of sugar are used. Sugar is what creates the texture of the cake. Corn syrup is added to retain moistur, and that fresh texture. Think of the difference between crisp crunchy cookies and soft moist cookies. Like your RR and I am a new subscriber. Good comment about era appropriate structures as my cutoff time is 1960, so my structures and cars would be totally different, but the same principles apply.
Great content - thank you for sharing. I feel the same about industry selection; do what interests/inspires you.
Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching. Glad you liked it!
Very nice!
Thanks! Thanks for watching.
Great video, very informative, thanks very much! My layout is a similar size, but in N scale, I have a bakery, cold store, machine tools and a propane dealer. I'm quite new to this, but it seems that I followed a similar ethos to you, with multiple spots per industry and lots of switching opportunities. On a busy day, it can take as long as an hour to switch an 8 or 9 car train, the 5 car run around increases the complexity somewhat!
I'm still in the building phase, so just track down and getting the operations working properly, I wondered how you do your operations? Do you have just the one job (turn I guess), out from staging, to the layout, switch and return? Or multiple jobs? I've got one turn setup currently, and having ran it a few times, I'd like to add another, maybe I can simulate a westbound train from my staging and using a spare track, simulate a transfer to an eastbound train from imaginary staying 🤔 I'd be interested to know how many jobs you have on your layout?
Sounds like a nice set up. I did have n scale earlier but it’s just easier for me to handle ho now. The upside of course is you get quite a bit more track and space with n. On my layout, I have 2 inbound/interchange tracks. One holds 5 cars and an engine and the other holds 4 and an engine. So one switching job is to take the cut of 5 cars out to the industries and exchange those cars with what’s at the industries. Then what I bring back from the industries goes back into the interchange track to be taken away by the interchange rr. Then I can take out the 4 car cut from the other interchange track and switch the remaining cars at the industries. It’s as if the second cut is the second day of operations on the rr. So, between the 2 interchange tracks, I can switch out all 9 car spots. If that makes sense. I can easily spend 3hrs by myself if I pace it in prototypical time. Also, after each car cut is switched, I change engines and the one I was using has to go to the fueling pad for fuel and service. Adds another dimension. Would be good to see your layout as it progresses. Thanks for watching and for the comment.
Both your cold storage and food processor requires refrigeration. Large plants use anhydrous ammonia as the refrigerant. Add a vertical tank to both, and you have another opportunity to deliver product to these locations.
Good thought. The Ammonia pipes can be seen in the prototype in my post. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching!
Very nice, thankyou
Most welcome 😊
Do you host operating sessions on your layout? How many operators can you have?
Yes I operate with a local group where we rotate between everyone’s layouts. Mostly we operate on @ThePWMRR layout since he has the largest (and nicest) layout for multiple operators. I can have 2-3 operators on mine. If one is conductor and one engineer and a third guy can organize the inbound/interchange tracks. It also works well with just 1 when I need down time. Thanks for the comment.
@@HartfordWhaler I sent a screenshot of your list of influencers to Don :)
Nice. Don has been a big inspiration. His
knowledge of operations and detailing is unreal. His layout should be a feature in model railroader.