A problem today is that we no longer have toy-grade HO trains, like those that Life-Like, Model Power and Tyco used to produce. Granted, the mechanisms were often crap, but if you could upgrade those, I think the lack of detail would be acceptable for a lower price compared to what's being made today. Even Bachmann models today feel upscale compared to trains from the other manufacturers I mentioned. With cheaper trains, you could include more of the fun accessories mentioned in the older sets. Those sets definitely had more play value and makes you ask if manufacturers are really aiming their sets at kids. Many of the modern more detailed sets can seem to be too fragile for children. While many of the previous trains are available second hand, let's be honest a newbie looking for a first train set is most likely going to buy a new set, so if those sets could come back with better mechanisms, it would probably draw more people into the hobby.
And the reason why we don't have toy-grade HO trains anymore is no one in the general public, at least in North America, is interested in trains. Ignoring the draw of video games and TikTok, they only care about what is in front of their faces or immediate vicinity. They want instant pleasure which in model trains you have to work for. So unless you live right by the increasingly dwindling rail lines left there isn't much to draw you in to the hobby of trains. Not only that, there is a stigma behind liking trains in current year whether we want to admit or not. You have to be someone who is already either an outcast or doesn't care what about the mainstream. These kind of people are rare. If there was a market for toy-grade HO trains then the others would not have gone out of business and Bachmann wouldn't have a virtual monopoly. What does your average normie do with a train set if it even crosses their mind? Loop around the Christmas tree. That is it. They can't fathom going any further then that or they will be that "weird train guy" the mainstream, popular culture makes fun of. Most people are fickle and shallow like that going along with the herd mentality. In Europe at least there is less of that because people there still use trains quite frequently because of the luck of its geography allowing high density, population clusters in small areas that make it more sensible to use trains compared to low density, spread out North America where the car/airplane culture developed. That is reflected there by the fact there are way more active toy train companies in Europe vs. North America. Heck European companies don't bother to make North American models. Why not? North America is the biggest market on the planet you would be a fool to ignore it but they do. Why? Because your average normie in North America doesn't care about trains. The only reason the companies in North America still exist is because there is a large enough minority of train lovers to keep them around. And what do those people want? Realistic, high-grade models of trains, not toys. Hence why Life-Like, Tyco, AHM, IHC went belly up and Bachmann changed their ways. The current model train market is a reflection of the hobby and what the people want otherwise the companies would change and they would have to so they can stay alive from the small niche of people that exist to keep these companies afloat. People think toy trains now they buy those crappy ones from China with the black plastic track and weird out-of-scale proportions you can get for less than $50 on Amazon. I say this from a point where I wish your solution was that simple and easy but I see my view from the real world and interacting with your average person keeping the pulse on popular culture.
@@OriginalBongoliath Thomas Train Sets and accessories are still big but they're based on European rail gear because that where the series originated. Then when the kids get older comes that "Thomas is for babies" and they don't want to be seen playing with them because of "Thomas" branding. It's sad, I had several friend's kids age up and out of the Thomas sets being fun and cool. Which ruined the buying them and getting some fun while letting them have the set for upkeep and storage. In 2 decades they will be buying Thomas sets to recreate a collection of toys from their youth. Thomas the Tank Train toys could have been the perfect gateway into cheaper model railroads in HO scale like the old TYCO and LIFE-LIKE brands but the industry went after that bigger rich clientele (retirees and well to do customers) rather than young kids who would grow into their bigger and better products lines.
Adding on here under your comment as it is the most popular and mine will get lost for lack of votes of visibility. At 9:18 the "Maxwell House" Billboard looking Accessory had a Steam Train Whistle effect hidden between the two billboard sides. That was an electrical powered (from the transformer accessory terminals) whistle sound from a plastic fan. It didn't fit in well for look to the sound but gave you some noise to your train set for fun. Which when the lights were turned and you had just the engines light and the sound effects you could imagine yourself up anywhere.
@@OriginalBongoliath I disagree with you there. Until recently I managed the Lionel 1949 showroom layout replica at the Wisconsin Auto Museum. Rare was the kid who didn't enjoy the trains and the kids would start throwing a fit when the parents, who usually also enjoyed the layout, told them it was time to see the cars at the museum too. I recently resigned due to our curator, frankly, being the most awful person I could imagine, a lot of other talent at the museum is gone too because of her mismanagement, but that has freed me up to set up classic Lionel trains, from the 1930s-1950s at public events around town. Hartford had a block party downtown a month ago, the 4x8 Lionel layout I set up with two postwar trains, lots of operating accessories, whistles and horns, was second in popularity only to the food vendors. Someone from the city actually kept count, the trains beat out the rock climbing wall, the face paint booth, and the bean bag toss games for number of people who stopped to watch and interact. See, phones are accessible. I find that if people are exposed to trains, then they are much more likely to want a set and buy a set. I had a lot of calls for people asking me to refurbish their dad's or grandpa's old trains after the block party, as now they and their kids want to build a layout. So I think it's really just a matter of exposing families to the trains.
My first set was an LGB Stainz passenger set from 1985 a gift from my grandparents, great quality, I restored the locomotive cosmetically, and still runs to this day!
HA got the same set. but sold off all my LGB stuff in the early 2000's after i move out. i just never had room for them again. and my hobby interests changes to RC aircraft
The first full set I remember having was a marklin z scale set, I mistreated that poor steam engine, should probably run it sometime soon. For the most part I’ve switched to lgb g scale stock because it’s simply not so finicky about track not being perfect like the small scales
My first train set was a Tyco set. Came as a figure 8 elevated line with a lighted bridge, plenty of rolling stock, some trees, and I think a couple buildings (they could have been added, I was 4). I wore that set out!! While I’ve never really been a fan of HO, it lit the fire. I’m now surrounded with the Lionel O gauge trains I lusted after as a kid and I’ll forever have that fire for anything train related.
Starter sets are so people can afford them who are usually buying them as a gift. The person who receives them as a gift is understood to have a blue-chip portfolio so they can afford to build a layout off the set. 😊
Biggest difference is that a lot of the older sets were made and marketed as toys. You could expand them and make layouts with it all, of course, but the emphasis was on play value and ruggedness. Now it's all about models. People complain if it isn't super-detailed with separately applied parts and fitted with dcc and sound. What sets are available don't have very much in them and are expensive as hell. Even with Lionel O in the 90's, the sets had way more in them than you get now, and they were all different.
You are so right... everything is a "model" and must recreate to perfection what the real thing is. I love the World of Warships reference... people become so bogged down with stats about ships, trains here, that the fun part totally flies out of the window.
This is something I’ve been saying for YEARS! I was never that interested in the train sets I saw in the 2010s, always in the super old stuff I saw at train shows. I’m so happy someone else shares my opinion.
My Dad gave me a Lionel train set back in the 1960s. It was a nice, solidly built train. As I got older and played less with the set. It was carefully packed away in the attic. Years later after college I bought a house and decided to collect all my stuff and move it out of my parents house to mine. When I couldn't find my train set I asked about it. Mom said she gave it to a cousin. I told her it was NOT her property to give away. She said I was too old for a train set and I again told her that Dad gave it to me and it belonged to me no matter how old I am. Well my cousin gave it to his kids and they tore and busted it up. He didn't care, he didn't pay for it. So I was very angry because my mom not only gave away the train set but she looted other stuff that was mine and either gave it or threw it away. Years later my wife was gathering old stuff to give away or throw out and I stopped her cold. I told her not to do anything with my stuff unless she talks to me first. After I'm dead then she can do what she wants.
I secretly rescued my fischertechnik parts from my parents house soon after I moved out. But it turned out later that they would have asked us before giving away our toys. Did your parents know how much you valued your Lionel train set?
My first train set (beyond the little wood trains) was a Lionel set. Not really my own, rather my whole family’s for the Christmas tree, but I was the only one who oiled it and cared for it. Later on, I inherited my grandfather’s Lionel basement empire, but it is mostly still in boxes until I find the room, lol
I actually got a Bachmann train set from a store for about $20ish, and honestly while it's a decent set your points are valid. The NS F unit is awesome, but the fact it only comes with like three cars and a circle of track is a disappointment. I had to go to a train show and hobby store just to get more track, rolling stock and locomotives to make the set at least half decent
Your points and comparisons jump all over the place. From faulting the inexpensive Bachmann starter set for only having 4 cars to praising the Tyco set which... also only has 4 cars. As a railroader who started out as a kid in the 80's I can say for certain that all of the beginner sets out there, with the possible only exclusion being Lionel O scale, were mechanical junk. Bachmann from the late 70's all the way through the 90's was horrible. Life like, while better, was not to the level of the hobby grade offerings from Athearn's Blue Box or the Atlas Yellow Box offerings. Because they had to try to be affordable so the draw to these sets were simply the super cheap entry price. My first diesel set was an H.O. scale Life-Like Rail Blaster. Came with a Chessie GP38, a handful of rolling stock, and a bunch of comically horrible scenery and automobiles. And for 10 year old me in 1990 it was excellent. It got me interested in trains. It didn't hold up under years of use but it was also what my working-class parents could afford. And it was enough to spark my interest in railroads but it was hardware that had to be replaced rather frequently until I was old enough to be able to afford my own purchases when I discovered the aforementioned Athearn and Atlas offerings. Which were far superior in quality but the higher price also reflected it. I still have almost all of the old Athearn and Atlas locomotives that I have purchased over the years and every now and then I run them, and the still run well. I also have some of the old Bachmann and Life-Like units. They, most of the time, don't run very well and weren't built with being serviced in mind. So they are all exclusively for display only. Fast forward to now and the starter sets, while still being very affordable, come with a much higher quality of mechanism that is not only far more reliable but easy enough for a novice modeler to maintain. That Bachmann thoroughbred set, for example, is simple to set up, operate, and keep running even for my 13 year old nephew. And you can get the set for ~$100 if you shop around. When you account for inflation that is a TON more quality for the money than we got when I was a kid. The technology and materials have improved. Manufacturing processes have become FAR more efficient and what you get in a basic set now beats the crap out of a set that was new 30 years ago. Bachmann, more than any other manufacturer, has stepped up their quality in the last decade or so to the point where they are as reliable as anything else out there. Kato sets are very nice, but spendy when compared with Bachmann. But Kato has been building industry leading stuff for decades in N scale. For the parent that can afford it there isn't really a way to go wrong with getting your kid a Kato set. Circling back around to an earlier point the main exception to most of this is Lionel O scale. They had been manufacturing bullet proof stuff for decades when these cheap 70's-80's sets hit the market. And those sets still hold up today. My brother bought a bunch of very old and well used Lionel (and to an extent Marx) O scale stuff and with a little TLC and care virtually all of it ran like new. As far as the weird promotional sets that's not a new thing either. In the midst of losing market share rapidly to digital entertainment they're forced to try anything they can to make the trains appeal enough to children so they'll pester their parents to buy them one. Otherwise it's back to their iPhones.
Thank you for the info and I will be better about not jumping around. I have other comments about these 80s sets being bad and I am planning on comparing 2 of the same sets made 30 years apart.
@@spdaylight1 I'd definitely watch that video. One think to keep in mind. Materials can become brittle over time, especially plastic. So the older set will be at a disadvantage from material age from the start.
I still have my dad's Lionel 1666 he got when he was a kid. Still runs like a dream. I don't think any starter set can last as long as thing thing has.
"If I had a nickel for everytime I've seen someone make a Flying Kipper joke tied into a video about trains sets, I'd have two nickels.. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.." Jokes aside, I have to agree with you. I remember my first train set quite well though, it was a Hornby " green giant" set, I believe it was the 2007 version. I think I got the set when I was 7 (though I could be wrong) after the local "Toyworld" store was closing down, having a lot of things on sale my grandparents and mother decided to get it for me as a Christmas present. I believe the original pice was $180 prior to the sale and ~$110 after, which was quite worth it at the time. (Edit: AUD for context btw, I sometimes forget currencies are different in other countries lol) You got a little layout playmat thing, a rather mid-sized oval of track, the locomotive, two trucks and a brake van with a rather cheap controller tied in. It's crazy to me though that the cheap controller in question is actually far better than the _really_ cheap controllers Hornby puts in their train sets today, the one I have from the 2007 set might be cheap but it never seemed to strain the locomotive unlike the modern Hornby controllers do. Then the prices as we all know.. I really have to question if purchasing from Hornby is even worth it at times.. they make some fantastic models, don't get me wrong, but sometimes buying from them feels like highway robbery with the high prices and abysmal quality control. Edit 2: Actually, there it is for a split second at 22:12 and 23:00 lol
I used to buy the used Bachman train sets for the tracks and rolling stock at train shows. It was a actually a great way to get those things for under $50
The hi-cube box car in that set (Chattanooga Choo Choo) had a large roller filled with gravel in the center section. When rolled on the track it made a steam loco chuffing sound. The effect worked best with it run just behind the loco. The loco also had a smoke generator in the stack. Very nice set. That was my first set and I still have the loco (in pieces unfortunately).
Glad I wasn't the only to remember and have one in their set. Or Hodgepodge of every set I got as sets were often cheaper than buying me the track or cars and more convenience to the adults. As I would build into what I could on the dinning room table that was used once year.
@@ElJefeNScale-dj2wt I remember the red button being on a small (1"×1"×2") box with a wire leading to the throttle's constant 12V (?) output and another wire going to the billboard. In the center (top side IIRC) of the billboard is a squirrel-cage fan that drives the whistle. Both the button box and the billboard are a dark forest green.
my first train set would have been a Triang-Hornby Great Western goods train with a wee pannier tank locomotive and a few wagons and a circle of track, which had a Flying Scotsman added to it. they are now well over 40 years old, i still have them both, and they are both still runners!
One big thing that I have figured out from messing with both older sets and newer sets is that the older sets were built to a very cheap standard and the engines had terrible mechanisms and don’t really Stand up over time Newer sets have much better mechanisms so if you take care of then it will last much longer. Track is also made using much better materials And while yes some sets nowadays are relatively small, there are also a decent amount of sets that have really nice features
I rarely come across mantua sets which I help at a train store. So that would be an exception You also didn’t take into account inflation. Take the price of the train sets you talked about and run it through An inflation calculator. The 73 dollar sets equates to about 560 dollars today. So at that time it would have been a very high end set compared to the low end modern sets you had shown
@@trainman05matthewb.65exactly, Mantua and Mehano/IHC stand up VERY well. I recently picked up an old Presidents Choice set by Mehano, and it’s still a great starter set, aside from the horn hook couplers and brass track!
My first train set was a lionel lionchief RS-3 and 3 boring freight cars. It came with a simple loop, and by itself I'm not sure i would've gotten into the hobby. Luckly, i was gifted a piggyback truck flatcar and railroad crossing with the set. That added so much more play value and made me interested. I am sure if complaies included more rolling stock and scenic items, (switches and sidings would be really really cool) then their sets would actually get people interested. Thanks for this video.
I've always wanted to get into model railroading, I've just never known how. My grandpa has a bunch of O gauge post-wars that I've been obsessed with since I was a kid. The detail and models are so fascinating I could sit and stare at them all day. When I feel the desire to get into the hobby, I look at a starter set and it just seems underwhelming. Which makes sense as a $150 starter set, but I just don't see a COOL train in the box. I've thought about buying specific engines and then building a railroad from scratch, but it's such a daunting task as a beginner I always stop before I even put something in my cart. I think someday I'll buy a Commander set and hopefully kickoff from there. Really enjoyed the video, helped cross some bad potential starter options off the list.
Thanks for good memories ! I got my first train set (Bachmann) back in 1974 for Christmas. It was then $30. As we were 4 children in the family, I thought I would never get it because it was a lot of money back then. At least for my mom and dad. I will always remember it. It had a CP Rail GP35 engine, a covered hopper, a gondola, a tank car, a boxcar and a caboose. All wearing CP scheme. It was coming with a 12V power pack and a 36" brass circular track set. It was terrible ! Meaning that it was like indestructible. Engine was all wheel drive. Cars were nicely built nearly like Athearn quality. But to answer your question: At the time, we boys (mostly) were playing with trucks and TRAINS. That's why there were so many train sets available. It was a BIG seller at every Christmas. I was so happy when my mom was giving me the Christmas catalog. The first thing I was doing was to get at the end of it and look at train sets. Knowing that I would never get $70 sets. It was too expensive. Today's kids don't give a sh... about model trains. That's the main reason why kits were thru the years getting cheaper, too expensive and finally disapeared from kids interest. Many kids of my age got train sets too at the time. So I bought tracks, cars and accessories like crossing grades, pipe unloader, bridges, etc for a cheap price from them because they were tired playing with it. And I kept running trains. Until today ! Today's trains may be A LOT more expensive, sound equipped, not turning around anymore... I can still feel the fun behind it. Nothing has never and will never give me the pleasure and satisfaction of model trains. It's like a disease. Can't get red of it ! Hopefully !
I always wanted a model Railway but they are so damn expensive today The Metropolitan set here was 60 dollars “now“ they are 100-200 per locomotive And around 20-50 per railcar I got a catalog from like 2012-2015ish Don't even want to know what they cost now after Covid and inflation
Nailed it. My biggest gripe with train sets is that since the late 90s, we haven't seen an affordable train set that is something you could very well see on the railroad. A GP38 or GP40 wasn't uncommon on a mainline train, but now a chop nose GP9 or GP38 would only be available if you happen to live on a shortline or a town with a yard. A Kid isn't going to know about steam, or an F Unit... but they recognize Dash 9s and GEVOs. And for all the flack Lionel gets (and deserves) for their fictional liveries... they did one thing right: An 0-31 set with a Tier 4 Gevo, Double stack, boxcar, and autorack. For a child raised in the 2020s that is something they can go see, then play with back at home! Modern modelers can bemoan and cry about how basic and lacking these models would be, but it's a foot in the door for a new generation who want to play with what they've seen.
I agree with you that train sets suck these days, and aren’t that interesting. I got into model railroading not too long ago and bought a Bachmann GP38 as well as the Bachmann first railroad track set, which had a odd-shaped oval, a passing siding, and small yard, however it wasn’t a train set. I think it would be a perfect deluxe set though, as it has a kinda interesting track plan. On another note though, comparing prices from the 70s/80s to present day isn’t completely fair, as inflation does exist.
I remember my first train set. It was the Thoroughbred train set from Bachmann. I even got it for about $70. It was very good for the time, and the engine looked like something out of the Spectrum line. I still have it, and recently did a refurbishment on it. It runs great. About a year after I got that was when I bought the Bachmann “Your First Railroad” track pack. It’s still active as the BL&G right of way.
My grandparents ran a hobbie store for 47 years. They specialized in Märklin and some of my earliest and favorite memories are us laying out the 1 gauge around the house. We always set up the yard depot first and then used the flat cars to transport the track, switches, clips, and buffers to the farthest points of the line until we had completed the circuit around the house They also have a HO Märklin layout in their basement, and now I get to bring my kids down there to play with the same engines and cars I got to play with. I wish the internet was never invented because if it wasn't I think these hobbie shops would still be around. I would have loved to continue their shop but their just isn't the same World anymore. We would stay there after closing time, and we would get Papa John's for dinner and run trains on the test track they had up on the front display cases... This was the absolute best way to grow up in the late 90s to 2000s.
@spdaylight1 Very true... Society is falling apart on all fronts, and I think trains in general represent a stone nation with heavy industries. We haven't had that for so long. I think kids can't connect to the idea of trains the same way.
I agree modern sets are not as exciting as older ones but a few points. 1: The exciting modern examples you showed are around $330, not affordable and around 3x what the small sets are sold for. 2: Inflation was not taken into account in the examples from the 70s, $71 in 1972 is worth $546 today which is not competitive. 3: The quality of these sets are higher than they were in the 80s which is part of the reason details have been cut back. I overall agree with what you're saying but it's kinda like comparing a Cadillac to a Corolla, when something costs more you're gonna get more.
Costs was not as big of a point to me. I'm happy to pay good money for a big set. I used the comparison of a brass model to a train set to better illustrate a cost-to-benefit. I believe direct inflation is not a great comparison tool as it does not take into account wages, production cost and other factors. I also felt if I did not mention the bigger sets people would point them out and say "well these exist and there cool looking". Thank you for your points! I will address them in future analysis.
At 9:18 Maxwell House Accessory Billboard was a hidden sound effect for train steam whistles, masked between the two billboard sides.. It operated off a wired push button, powered from the main transformer's accessory terminals. You wired it on to the terminals you connected switches and every other powered activated accessory on. Which was a decently loud train whistle sound effect. I used mine quite a lot although the billboard wasn't as fun in the layout but hiding under the foam tunnel was a good placement. The spinning up and down of the plastic fan blade wheel is how it made the sound. As air passed through holes was what made the sounds, making sounds like a steam train engine's whistle that got louder than quieter, as it spun up and then down. So it sounded like the train was going by in the distance with approaching then trailing away in the distance. If you held the button down it would give the whistling sound at full volume/speed until you let off of the control button.
I'm totally with you on providing interactive features in the starter sets. Dump trucks, log unloaders etc. that actually work -- definitely the way to go!
When I was a kid, I had a Mantua set, the locomotive was metal, and my dad had to put some of the stuff together as I recall. I remember brass wheels on the tender as pick-up for the electric current. I would say they were well made.
My first trainset was the Mehano Thunderbolt Express which my dad built on the Woodland Scenices Mountain Valley kit. I also had a bunch of other random cars and some engines from my grandfather. The Santa Fe SD40-2 still runs fine today, 22 years later, though it needs cleaning.
I'm happy I saw this on my recommended as I've been planning on making a similar video on the issue with model trains in general. In your video you made some observations and points that I was hoping to bring up. The price of modern model trains is not pretty (I'm no Thomas Sowell but I'm sure inflation since the 70s is a factor) and the price for brass models, which 80% of the time are more accurate to the real-life prototype than more regular plastic models from the big companies like Bachmann or Broadway Limited, are outrageous. But I do agree that at the time, these sets were quality. Now that I'm older, I've begun to be more caring for Tyco's models. I still don't like many of them but I can't deny that many of it's products were good or even unique compared to what we have today. Going off a bit more of what you said about the use of 0-6-0s, I think Bachmann has really overused the USRA 0-6-0 for many of it's sets and rarely does Bachmann ever make any of them in the lettering of a railroad that actually had the USRA 0-6-0s on it's roster. You'll see USRA 0-6-0s in Union Pacific, Great Northern, AT&SF, The Dixie Line and Chessie but none of these railroads had USRA 0-6-0s in real life. If I were produce model train sets to get people interested in them, I'd go the extra mile to make the locomotives real life accurate. Let's be honest here, who doesn't want a model of Cotton Belt L1 No. 819 that looks exactly like the real life one and not a repaint of an NYC S Class Niagara with the smoke deflectors removed?
My first set was an HO scale life like set with the high nose red and silver Santa Fe gp38-2. My dad turned it into an awesome set with elevation, switches, a tunnel, a bank, a neighborhood with cul de sac, a railroad crossing, and a dump site for the side dump gondola. And he said he doesn't even like trains. I'll never forget that train set turned into a layout
You can get a Piko Mytrain starter set for $68.00 with rubber band drive loco which is literally just the Athearn hustler or the Mytrain ICE train for like $85.00 both without shipping though.
My first HO set was the Bachmann lightning express. First G scale set was the New bright Denver express with mechanical chugger, only the ones with the mechanical chugger and air whistle were the good ones, they even sold track expander packs with switches and a talking station and a cross track. they even sold separate rolling stock. I also had the New bright rail king Electric set that had a CNW 2-6-2. The Pennsylvania version is quite rare. I also had a Lionel chesapeake and ohio flyer with the Die cast atlantic it was very heavy.
I think the next one should be discussing the newer sets and their so called expansion packs. Also loved your video you put it into perspective as to why I'd rather buy them separately and just build my own modern sets are what I shake my head at and just keep scrolling
Super. My first HO scale train set was by Lionel, and had a 4-6-2 Pacific steam locomotive with tender, a stock car with moving horses, a gondola car, a hopper car, a box car, a flat car, a tank car, and a caboose, with every car proudly proclaiming "Blt. by Lionel" on the sides. My first N scale set was the Atlas FM CPA24-5 C-Liner 5 axle streamlined diesel, a tank car, a box car, a refrigerator car, a flat car, a hopper car, and a caboose. Everything has survived almost 50 years and is in operation on my model railroad. (HO/HOn30/N) Hello from the Tracy Mountain Railway in Colorado. 💙 T.E.N.
Expansion packs are actually something that KATO does with a lot of their "train in a box" type sets (the ones that don't come with track). You can buy a locomotive AND a couple cars all at once in a single box, then they also make multiple expansion kits to go with them. For example, the base N700 Shinkansen set comes with the two end cars, a power car and a middle car with a pantograph. They then make a 4-car expansion and an 8-car expansion to be able to make the full 16-car consist. Of course they also have their variation track sets, I just wanted to note that they do that with both their track and trains.
Nice video. My first set was a Lionel O gauge, don't know what set, but I think its a 2-6-0 or 2-8-0 (all metal, tender too) with several freight cars and a large oval (it's buried somewhere but it does still work). Though I've never really liked sets because to me a simple oval or figure-8 and 3-4 car trains are 'boring', so I never saw much value in sets. I'd much rather design and build a layout and buy locos and cars individually even though its more expensive. My dad and I designed and built an HO layout from scratch on a 8ft x 4ft plywood table, with a small yard, small 'town' and a mountain (track tunneled in and looped up it and out) with a couple bridges; though we never got around to decorating and finishing it. We didnt use any sets for that, just went down to a model train store and got a Bachmann UP 4441 0-6-0 and several freight cars including an older crane car and matching service flatbed and all the stuff for the layout. Later on I got an Bachmann Flying Scot 46100 4-6-0 (4 pas. cars) set at a thrift store, used it once on my layout, dropped it and broke the pilot truck off the loco. We moved and gave the layout to one of my dads friends, so both trains are shelf decoration until I can build another layout. Though I want to build a O scale narrow gauge (On30) next as I'm really interested in narrow gauge railroads at the moment.
Thank you for this video because this is something that I've been having a problem with. The few starter sets that are being offered are a bit too expensive and look cartoonish to me. There's little value to most of them. When I was a kid, I loved the local Sunday paper especially during Christmas time, all of the department stores had pages of advertisements for "trainsets", mostly Lionel O guage. Some of the biggest sets had many as 8 cars, not counting the locomotive,tender and caboose, and were no more than $149 or so. The smaller ones were no more than $49. But they looked more realistic and many had accessories with them. Model railroading has become kind of snooty and it's a shame because I would love to revisit the hobby now that I'm older. Manufacturers should offer more, considering they are paying their employees in China way less than they used to pay when they manufactured here in the states.
I’ve been in the hobby now on and off since I was a kid, I’m almost 30. Every time I want to dip into a new scale or era, I look for a starter set because I like the “toy train” aesthetic of the hobby, just running trains. I think the main problem with train sets, at least in the US, is they are the same year after year. Bachmann has been pushing most of those HO sets since 2010 or before. Lionel is at least trying to make new starter sets but O gauge isn’t what it was in the past, my first set was a Lionel Alaska railroad freight set in a blue and yellow scheme. Now I’m into British OO gauge and Hornby, with all their flaws, consistently bring out new starter sets every year, if not every other year. Colorful and big locos, passenger sets mainly, but some freight. Same goes for Piko and Märklin with their European HO sets.
Yes buy the Northerner it’s a very good set comes with all the accessories you could ever ask for road signs, telephone poles the whole thing. Just make sure to have all your track perfectly connected if one rail is off or didn’t clip right you will think the leading wheels are useless but it’s almost always the track.
The Maxwell House billboard actually contained a powered fan that produced a whistle sound. The high cube boxcar contained a roller that had beads inside that made a “chuff” sound. The tender contained the motor so their was round in the boiler for a smoke unit.
Mine was based off of an actual narrow gauge railway in United States. It was the Durango and Silverton set it’s broken but I saw use it as a prop model, derailment incident, model, etc. and the next one I got the second one broke again and I don’t know what my brain was thinking of putting an HOCO train on my old couch.😅😅😅
This was a really cool video, I started out with a Bachman thoroughbred set but really didn’t get into proper trains until Kato, and also with a Kato starter set you get the same high quality as all the other sets for a cheaper price meaning your getting their high quality stuff without having to spend so much
My first set was funny enough was the overland limited. But for real, you took my word out of my mouth with this video. Can I recommend you can do a video on IHC, AHM, and Rivarossi?
The bottom 2 n scale sets you showed (albeit their updated late 2000s versions) were my first 2 train sets. Not what they were called (can’t remember what the F9 set was called, but the 4-8-4 set was called the empire builder by that point) and I loved them. Between the 2 of them, and 1 booster set, is still all the snap track I own. They were excellent sets, both locos still run, although they are busted up a bit lol, but they were the epitome of what a team set should be. Cheap ish, durable, and fun. Great video, thanks!
I have a 1950's era American Flier train set I got in 1957. It has a trestle, station, 4 switches, an "X" and a whole mess of track. It can do a 10' oval with an "X" in the middle with the trestle along the rear straight section. I have a passenger train and a freight train for it. I also have 4-4-2 and a 4-6-2 engines with coal cars for each.
I got the newer Overland Limited set in 2017 for $210 on Trainworld, I absolutely love that set, and of course still do have it! I do agree with you on everything you said here, it’s absolutely correct. Since then, I’ve added another starter set, this time a slightly older smaller one from Walthers, and 4 locomotives.
I agree. My first set was in 1993. The tornado by Bachmann. I got a bridge, trestle, telegraph poles, and road and rail signs. A 36x46” oval of track. A F unit and 3 freight cars and a offset caboose. Don’t even know the price today. I bought my son a Bachmann set 2 years ago. For around 200$ at hobby lobby. Came with a steam 0-6-0 and one gondola car and a caboose. Got home and not even a oval but just a 36x36” loop. Granted it was destroyed in a hour from soda being poured on steel track. Not even nickel silver. And all as my kids have little respect for such things. Unless it’s on a screen. My model taste went from HO to N scale shortly after joining the army as I could take a model with me overseas and sit in a hole and do some painting or something. But I remember also the cars you could buy. If operating was your goal over details. You could buy a car or locomotive that ran grate for half the price of the high end ones you see today. Still ready to run but details molded into the shell instead of all the separate parts installed. Or kits without details but detail sets bought after the model if you wanted it. I’m a operator when it comes to my model railroad so I just want it to work. I never minded the cheapest. Ugly model as long as it ran well. Seams the company’s like walthers and Bachmann forget this part of the hobby as well.
Thanks for making this video and please make the later train sets video! It's really a shame that less train sets are interesting and more bland, especially when I switched to O gauge from HO in the mid 2000s when I was 11 years old because of the "Lionel" name some adults I know were talking about and I was also into I Love Toy Trains and various non-train set related Lionel merch. I am still collecting O gauge today while trying to get back into HO due to my one obsession with European trains (Hard to collect than my default North American stuff). While I currently pause on model railroading, I play Trainz (one of the simulator games) and I understand that it way has more bang for my buck these days.
I agree 100%. Also that Maxwell billboard in the Mammoth of the rails set is an electric whistle that sounds like an old steam train. If you ever find one that works I recommend picking one up.
22:43 Lionel does this. It kinda works... but is a bit clunky. I wouldn't say its value for money though, as most of the time it's been more expensive to buy the parts individually. That being said, the Kato V packs you mention do work. I see a lot of newer people to the hobby coming back to buy different addons.
The Tyco road and rail set was one of the best ideas ever. You were a popular kid if you had that. Wish AFX made a crossing section for HO track. They never bothered. Shame.
My first train set was a Hornby LNER set from the early 2000’s. Idk how much it cost but having a look at their recent prices, I can see why sales are slipping. Seriously, a diesel locomotive and 3 wagons shouldn’t be nearly £200 and don’t even bother looking at the Flying Scotsman or Mallard which exceed £200
Had the Golden Eagle set from TYCO as a kid and remember having a blast with it! I even kit bashed a Clementine gold mine conveyor belt with a motor and saw the ore flying across the room! Hey, I was just a kid! lol I remember also that Bachmann trains were hair pulling-ly frustrating to run!
I remember getting a HO Bachmann set and putting it on the track and running it, but when I went to reverse, the locomotive just plowed through the train. When that locomotive started quitting, I got a Life-Like set. My dad threw the throttle in reverse on that train and before I could go “nooooooo”, it successfully backed up, and not only that, but it was backing up over the bridge set that came with the Power-Loc track. I was a Life-Like loyalist after that, but Bachmann did get better, which is surprising considering that they don’t have as much competition as they used to. They could have continued to make crappy starter sets, but I think the points made in the video and in these comments sort of explain why they had to get better. Their N scale has always been dynamite, though.
My first train set was a hornby one with a GWR tank engine in it. Now I model australian and american stuff, but at least the set got me into the hobby! 😂
I've seen several of these videos. Yours is a good one. New sub. It's hard to remove nostalgia blinders whenever we look at new things, but you're absolutely right about the value for money in train sets. What's interesting though, is that the hobby is actually cheaper than it used to be. Those of you scoffing haven't actually adjusted for inflation and done the math. The $71 train set in the video would be $535 today. Good luck getting people to buy that. With modern manufacturing taking such a huge hit, I'm amazed any model railroad companies are turning any profit at all. Modern bells and whistles (literally) that are bluetooth are what the new generations want. New people getting into the hobby today aren't going to say things like "the good old days of only DC and simple electronics". They're going to say "well this is boring". You really did hit the nail on the head with the playability of train sets though. Switches and grade crossings and buildings (or even slot car crossings) add so much fun factor that just isn't in the modern circle + engine + 3 cars. It would be nice to see more of that included. With 3d printing getting better every day, it might become more economically viable, too. Hopefully...
There's also the remote control or "bluetooth" battery-operated trains to compete with. Train sets are pseudo-model-railroading. They're generally not as highly-detailed than buying the stuff individually, but they are built like model railroad equipment. However today the toy train market is absolutely flooded with very cheap plastic stuff. If I'm a parent, why am I paying for metal track and running voltage through it from a company that makes models when I can get an all-plastic battery-operated toy for my kid that goes forward/backward/sound/headlight with the remote for 1/10 the price? Not to mention the plastic track and wheels is more playable without finicky rail joiners and engine pickups that make the whole thing not work at all if there is any point of failure.
Those older sets really were a lot nicer, especially the ones that came with turnouts. Another think about those sets is that you can rearrange the track layout to make a loop with a small yard or industry sidings or something like that, and then you can do both running and switching. It just makes your starter layout a bit more realistic, doesn't it?
Great video. I was actually thinking the same thing recently. Today's train sets definitely lack that "wow" factor. However, I grew up with these sets and while the manufactures packed a lot into the sets, they were not the greatest quality. The accessories didn't work too well, and derailments were frequent enough to be frustrating even in the hands of adults - forget getting them into the hands of kids! In retrospect, they were also humorously not prototypical. i.e. You could get a set with a steam locomotive hauling cars and road names that didn't exist in the steam era! Today's starter sets have less, but the quality of the trains has improved significantly, and they are more prototypically accurate. Having said that, I don't see that many operating accessory offerings in sets or for separate purchase, either. That might be territory worth revisiting for the manufactures. Hopefully they revisit the sets of yesteryear and find a balance between quality, prototypical accuracy, and the "wow" factor.
I totally hear the OP about expansion packs, as I recall the back page of many TYCO HO-scale train brochures/catalogs having a full-page display that read "Add any circle of track... to this 4'x6' layout"... with a second picture displaying how such a layout could be expanded even further, and decorated/added to with accessories found inside.
I had this set, the maxwell thing is actually an electric whistle...you hold down the red button and then a little fan in the middle of the green box (starts spinning and the air goes throw a venturi) and it sounds like a steam train whistle.
First: current problem is our economy. Second: our obsession with things on a screen, instead of hands on. Third: MFG's are focused on dumb issues, or selling for the advertising of other companies. Forth: the hobby has several angles, and for years it was the angle of keeping it scale and real looking to be seen but not touched for the most part. Fifth: some companies were to focused on copying another or the other was to sue happy to find fault with that other company. (Lionel, MTH, K-line, Taylor made Trucks, RMT) Find a good working used set, from the web or in a local market or thrift store, or better yet from a model train operator. Speaking of play value, I don't know the dates when these were made, but K-line (3 rail O gauge) made a line called Husky. I bought some of the diesel Husky engines and find them to be a bit out of scale, but they were meant to be a more durable toy as best I can tell. Built with a single motor and electronic reversing unit and back and front changing head lights. The side hand railings on the unit are plastic but much heavier then the regular units made by other brands. They are screwed on with many screws, however to get into the works of it inside it is not very easy, making it a nice thing for a kid that might tinker and the first thing a kid might do to it is unscrew the hand railings. Sadly K-line is out of business directly and Lionel has much of the rights of those products and many parts Lionel makes for their diesels are similar. I have several of the Husky engines and find them fun and durable, good for 5-10 rail cars for sure.
my first set is a Bachman Santa Fe Flyer kit I got for $50 used that came with a additional NYC boxcar and I just bought 4 pieces of code 100 9" straight track for $15 so now i have a oval along with a union pacific boxcar for $20 but for $85 invested so far I'm super happy with what I got for a starting kit into this hobby!
my 90s Bachmann trainset was an oval of track with a diesel locomotive, 3 freight cars, a caboose, a signal bridge, and a bunch of signs and figures. Not huge, but better value than the 1 or 2 cars that the modern ones seem to come with.
I was awarded two or three sets at an entirely too young age and I promptly wrecked them. I guess my dad tried to get something started with them, but to answer the question: the one I started building my first layout from was Life-Like’s Blazing Rails. $40 in 1997, if I remember right. I was 10, and I’ve had an HO layout in every place I’ve lived since then, until recently. That GP38 and its later-acquired friends were all still running, albeit nowhere close to as great as some of the better designed locomotives I’ve bought in more recent years. The “accessories” really made those old sets pretty cool. I’ve always been a road enthusiast as well; I was building Micro Machines cities prior to my first layout, and the authentic DOT traffic signs in the Life-Like sets caught my eye. I still have so many of them, the signal bridges, “automatic” crossing gates, and stockyard pens, in boxes somewhere out in the garage that I’m supposed to be building my next layout in. And the trackside shanties; can’t forget those. They all bring back good memories.
Dad started me out with the Tyco motorized plastic track set at Preschool Age and then I got a Life-Like Santa Fe freight set for Christmas of '92 or thereabouts for my first train. My first "real" trains were some Athearn SW units in BN and a tray of open cars from a train show and he set up a 4x8 double oval a friend of his sold him in the screen room off the house. That was my entry into model railroading when I was maybe 7, and it was something my friends would mess around with if it was too hot to go outside, but we couldn't stay in to play video games all day. Now, the pricing for modern trains have made those experiences impossible for most kids if they were interested at all. That said, there's two railroad parks in the Phoenix area, on in Scottsdale, the other in Glendale near Deer Valley, and kids still love trains. Simple sets would still sell.
The bigger question is there an appetite for toy or entry level train sets among the same target customers that there were in the 60's through early 80's? I know as a kid in the 60's and early 70's I was an avid modeler. Plastic model kits, trains, etc. Most of my friends were to...that is when we are not outside playing sports or other outdoor activities. I used to get Tyco train sets from somebody in the family every Christmas. In '72 my Dad, Grandpa and myself built a 13' x 12' model train set based on one the the Atlas plans. I was into trains and so was my family. BUT, it stopped with me. My brother who is 19 years younger had a year with an interest in trains but then he discovered video games...that was that. My grand kids thought my trains were cool, but have no interest in doing it themselves. My point is the people that are interested in trains are who? Older aka 20/30's, later in life or retired?.... are those that are interested in trains want trains with details and DCC and not toy trains. Are most others find trains nostalgic and something you put up around Christmas or it the price of entry to steep and that keeps most out? I have most of my older gear from those times and I do actually purchase older Athern Blubox and AHM gear as well as newer gear. Since I had the track, switches, controllers etc from that DC era, I just stayed with it, finding that I do not get enough value from investing in DCC. I enjoy more the art of modeling and creating and not really into running realistic consists, engaging in complex switching, and as an audio engineer by trade, the overall plastic sound that comes out of locomotives with DCC does not work for me. Not to mention my investment in the DC system is a lot, hundreds of pieces of rolling stock and locomotives, miles of track and a box full of those old Atlas switches. I currently have a 16' x 14' railroad in my basement and the set up is old school. The only "new school" is the led lighting. Yes I have modern pieces but I did not make the jump to DCC and that allowed me to get back into the hobby without breaking the bank. Not saying DCC is a bad thing at all....just one of the many facets of our hobby. We all pick and choose what interests us the most. Point is maybe the right path to get people into model railroading is not about the set you can buy but what you can do. So what is the best train set to get...the one you have :-)
The problem with the cost of train sets is that back then, these engines were seen as toys and while many had issues with mechanism (with exception of the time being Hornby, with their Ringfield motor even setting a world record) but things went downhill for railway modelling (as "model railroading" is called outside of the US) when video games appeared. Since then, the idea of them being toys just went away and had since became more as highly-detailed scale models with hundreds of separately-fitted parts that could easily break off. This becomes more so as the tooling to make the models is rather expensive itself, which is primary drive for the prices. Also for the question asked earlier in the video, my first train set was the Hornby Caledonian Belle train set. The set itself contained a single Caledonian Railway 264 "Pug" class 0-4-0ST, an open wagon, a single 4-wheel coach and an oval of track. You could say it's not much of a starter set but, you have a tiny 0-4-0 that flies along because it has the same motor as a slot car. Pity the motor on modern releases has been slowed down (HORNBY!)
In the early 70s I made the move from O gauge to HO. A local discount store had an isle dedicated to HO. It was all Tyco. Very reasonably priced and a great variety. The best item they had were their switches. They were remote controlled and the switch button was lighted. Green if set straight and red if set to the siding but the best part was the switch motor was "landscaped" with a dirt mound with vegetation spread over it to disguise the switch motor. It was not expensive, pretty cool and very easy to set up. I haven't seen anything like that since. I still have one or two of those but they no longer work. Great stuff and great times. Somehow, I missed the whole trucks and roads thing. With what I have seen on the web it appeared to be a big deal but that store didn't stock it and the whole thing passed me by.
My dad got me the Chattanooga Choo-Choo for my ninth bday in 1992. I loved that set. My grand parents bought me the Bachmann Smokey Mountain Express. Also loved that set. I sadly don’t have any pieces of those sets anymore as the pieces broke, I’d use parts as practice for projects, or I’d pass it on to younger relatives. But I loved mode railroading from that point on. Currently at almost 40, I have a layout and train collection that nine year old me would be quite impressed by, but I’ll always have fond memories of those train sets. I agree that train sets with a good assortment of components to start, and those do not have to be nearly the same detail level as high end models now, but just solidly built, fun trains. I think train shops that can help people out together a set with things like locos, power packs, track packs, and get set up easily could be a great service too.
My first set was an o gauge Lionel set. I dont remember what it was called. Early 2000s, 4-4-2 steam loco, flat car, box car, caboose. All in prr colors. I miss that set
My first train set was the Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo, I was really young when I got it, I don't remember how old exactly, but I was very young, really too young for the train, so it mainly my uncle who'd bought it for me who'd play with it, and I for to press the button for the train whistle, but I loved that train. One of my friends had one of the Tyco highway sets with the semi trucks, but he never had any of the pieces to combine it with the train sets, that would've been so cool, I wish I knew that set existed back then. A few years ago before Toy R Us closed I thought about buying my nephews a train set, I wasted a trip to Toys R Us only to find out they didn't carry train set anymore. What kind of toy store doesn't carry train sets? So I went to the local hobby shop and I shocked to see how expensive the train sets were, so I decided to get my nephews the board game Axis & Allies instead.
The major Japanese n-scale manufacturers (Kato and Tomix) do what you were talking about with expansion packs. There's starter sets with an oval, power supply and 3/4 cars of a particular train. Then there's add-ons for the trains themselves to bring them up to prototype length (this also applies to non-starter set trains too), a dozen odd add-on track sets that have example layouts for combining with the basic set, and also some with one or two other track sets. All the track is set pieces that are durable and easily put together and taken apart many times and there's a very wide variety of it (single, double, wooden/concrete sleepers, concrete slab, viaduct, superelevated and more).
I would say the one thing that is better with today’s kits than it was back then is the quality of the snap track. The original track that came with those sets was terrible It was always coming apart and causing derailments, but the 10 times multiplier on the cost of these sets is not justified even with the new EZ track. My original N scale yard boss was 19.99 at KB toy store. The yard boss that I bought last year was $180. Just insane.
good video on an interesting subject. A little constructive feedback: the audio was all over the place. I was constantly adjusting the volume up so I could hear your narration, but all the sound effects were way too loud.
See this is why I my local hobby shop tended to make their own starter sets and sell those, with $150, $200 and $300 variants. And a $75 used variant which was consited of old toy stuff from the local train swap meet at the county fairgrounds. The old locomotives definitely got a motor replacements and oftentimes had their lights fixed if applicable and were often made DCC ready. Nice consist for the layout a good power pack to provide room to grow and a nice collection of track. And the more expensive ones were basically the same deal with all new stuff. They did tend to use bachmann EZ track but it was the nice nickle silver stuff and you got a lot of nice pieces I gave you a lot of flexibility with your construction
So many factors here.... today's kids don't grow up with trains as commonplace as previous generations did. That first hand unfamiliarity kills demand for trains as a plaything. Secondly, the decline of model trains as a popular kid's toy can be charted along side the rise of video game systems. In fact, many traditional kid's toys and games have suffered at the hands of electronic gaming. And lastly, model railroading itself has evolved greatly since its heyday. Men like Lionel Cohen and Louis Marx were mass producers of durable, easily serviceable, and, on a relative scale, somewhat affordable toy trains aimed primarily at America's boys (albeit often through their fathers.) Today's trains are a niche, almost boutique product, rivaling the most advanced computers in their sophistication and delivering levels of detail beyond the scope of economically driven mass production. Today's manufacturers cannot afford "loss leaders" because they don't have the massive consumer base to absorb the loss through other sales. I've been chasing trains since I was four years old and I love this hobby but trains are not a shared daily real world experience among our young any more. It's going to take a positive shared national experience to reignite mass interest in toy train sets on the scale they enjoyed prior to video game sets.
I live in an industrial city with two NS mainlines running through, so trains are still pretty common here (though not as often as 30 years ago). And my kids could not care less when a train rolls through in front of us at a crossing. I remember being excited any time I'd see a train at a crossing when I was a kid. I think kids are just generally disinterested now.
Economy of scale. The pre 80's sets weren't competing against video games and were able to sell more and make less profit per set. And I cannot emphasize this enough-the lack of low cost kits for kids to build is relegating this hobby to an old man's game.
I don’t know about the manufacturers, but the train set today is difficult for most kids growing up in the kind of houses that they are. A laptop computer simply takes up a lot less space than a 4 x 8 piece of plywood.
One thing I think Hornby did right with their British-outline models was that as they updated their models with better motors, finer details, and so on, they kept the older models for train sets. So you can for instance, get a beautifully detailed model of the Flying Scotsman loco for $250. Or, for the same money, you can get a lower-detail model in a set with a few passenger carriages (again, older less detailed designs), a controller, an oval of track, a siding, etc.
When i was a kid my parents got me a Lionel toy train set with the 3rd rail pick up. It came with the Santa Fe SW-1 loco a few cars and I think it was a Santa Fe work caboose. Dad built a decent layout. An oval.of track with a passing siding it had a crossing signal. It was crude but it kept me out of my parents hair for awhile. Then due to situations beyond my control we moved out of that town. To a house without a basement. So the trains were put into boxes for future playtime.Then later on they for Christmas they bought me a Tyco Santa Fe passenger train set F-7A & F-7B set then a couple of years later I got a I'll call it the Petticoat Junction train set. But it had a Michelob passenger car. And something of a post Civil War tank car. I think they used to ship pickles in those cars. But never had another trsin layout. I remember seeing the HO trains and roadway set. Thought it would be so cool to have a big enough train lsyout to actually incorporate both sets. But when that came out we were living in the house without a basement. So thats my story. Thanks for posting it. Have a blessed day everyone
A problem today is that we no longer have toy-grade HO trains, like those that Life-Like, Model Power and Tyco used to produce. Granted, the mechanisms were often crap, but if you could upgrade those, I think the lack of detail would be acceptable for a lower price compared to what's being made today. Even Bachmann models today feel upscale compared to trains from the other manufacturers I mentioned. With cheaper trains, you could include more of the fun accessories mentioned in the older sets. Those sets definitely had more play value and makes you ask if manufacturers are really aiming their sets at kids. Many of the modern more detailed sets can seem to be too fragile for children. While many of the previous trains are available second hand, let's be honest a newbie looking for a first train set is most likely going to buy a new set, so if those sets could come back with better mechanisms, it would probably draw more people into the hobby.
Excuse me, but today/s "model trains" still actually are toy trains. Start with the wheels.
And the reason why we don't have toy-grade HO trains anymore is no one in the general public, at least in North America, is interested in trains. Ignoring the draw of video games and TikTok, they only care about what is in front of their faces or immediate vicinity. They want instant pleasure which in model trains you have to work for. So unless you live right by the increasingly dwindling rail lines left there isn't much to draw you in to the hobby of trains. Not only that, there is a stigma behind liking trains in current year whether we want to admit or not. You have to be someone who is already either an outcast or doesn't care what about the mainstream. These kind of people are rare. If there was a market for toy-grade HO trains then the others would not have gone out of business and Bachmann wouldn't have a virtual monopoly.
What does your average normie do with a train set if it even crosses their mind? Loop around the Christmas tree. That is it. They can't fathom going any further then that or they will be that "weird train guy" the mainstream, popular culture makes fun of. Most people are fickle and shallow like that going along with the herd mentality.
In Europe at least there is less of that because people there still use trains quite frequently because of the luck of its geography allowing high density, population clusters in small areas that make it more sensible to use trains compared to low density, spread out North America where the car/airplane culture developed. That is reflected there by the fact there are way more active toy train companies in Europe vs. North America. Heck European companies don't bother to make North American models. Why not? North America is the biggest market on the planet you would be a fool to ignore it but they do. Why? Because your average normie in North America doesn't care about trains. The only reason the companies in North America still exist is because there is a large enough minority of train lovers to keep them around. And what do those people want? Realistic, high-grade models of trains, not toys. Hence why Life-Like, Tyco, AHM, IHC went belly up and Bachmann changed their ways. The current model train market is a reflection of the hobby and what the people want otherwise the companies would change and they would have to so they can stay alive from the small niche of people that exist to keep these companies afloat. People think toy trains now they buy those crappy ones from China with the black plastic track and weird out-of-scale proportions you can get for less than $50 on Amazon.
I say this from a point where I wish your solution was that simple and easy but I see my view from the real world and interacting with your average person keeping the pulse on popular culture.
@@OriginalBongoliath Thomas Train Sets and accessories are still big but they're based on European rail gear because that where the series originated. Then when the kids get older comes that "Thomas is for babies" and they don't want to be seen playing with them because of "Thomas" branding. It's sad, I had several friend's kids age up and out of the Thomas sets being fun and cool. Which ruined the buying them and getting some fun while letting them have the set for upkeep and storage. In 2 decades they will be buying Thomas sets to recreate a collection of toys from their youth. Thomas the Tank Train toys could have been the perfect gateway into cheaper model railroads in HO scale like the old TYCO and LIFE-LIKE brands but the industry went after that bigger rich clientele (retirees and well to do customers) rather than young kids who would grow into their bigger and better products lines.
Adding on here under your comment as it is the most popular and mine will get lost for lack of votes of visibility. At 9:18 the "Maxwell House" Billboard looking Accessory had a Steam Train Whistle effect hidden between the two billboard sides. That was an electrical powered (from the transformer accessory terminals) whistle sound from a plastic fan. It didn't fit in well for look to the sound but gave you some noise to your train set for fun. Which when the lights were turned and you had just the engines light and the sound effects you could imagine yourself up anywhere.
@@OriginalBongoliath I disagree with you there. Until recently I managed the Lionel 1949 showroom layout replica at the Wisconsin Auto Museum. Rare was the kid who didn't enjoy the trains and the kids would start throwing a fit when the parents, who usually also enjoyed the layout, told them it was time to see the cars at the museum too. I recently resigned due to our curator, frankly, being the most awful person I could imagine, a lot of other talent at the museum is gone too because of her mismanagement, but that has freed me up to set up classic Lionel trains, from the 1930s-1950s at public events around town. Hartford had a block party downtown a month ago, the 4x8 Lionel layout I set up with two postwar trains, lots of operating accessories, whistles and horns, was second in popularity only to the food vendors. Someone from the city actually kept count, the trains beat out the rock climbing wall, the face paint booth, and the bean bag toss games for number of people who stopped to watch and interact. See, phones are accessible. I find that if people are exposed to trains, then they are much more likely to want a set and buy a set. I had a lot of calls for people asking me to refurbish their dad's or grandpa's old trains after the block party, as now they and their kids want to build a layout. So I think it's really just a matter of exposing families to the trains.
My first set was an LGB Stainz passenger set from 1985 a gift from my grandparents, great quality, I restored the locomotive cosmetically, and still runs to this day!
I do love LGB products. My uncle bought my family the 2001 christmas set. Still runs as well. Happy running!!!
HA got the same set. but sold off all my LGB stuff in the early 2000's after i move out. i just never had room for them again. and my hobby interests changes to RC aircraft
The first full set I remember having was a marklin z scale set, I mistreated that poor steam engine, should probably run it sometime soon. For the most part I’ve switched to lgb g scale stock because it’s simply not so finicky about track not being perfect like the small scales
LGB are the toughest trains in the world. They run outside even in the snow and cold!
@@VictorianMaid99 Yes! My parents bought an LGB set when I was born, and it still runs like new for my daughter.
My first train set was a Tyco set. Came as a figure 8 elevated line with a lighted bridge, plenty of rolling stock, some trees, and I think a couple buildings (they could have been added, I was 4). I wore that set out!! While I’ve never really been a fan of HO, it lit the fire. I’m now surrounded with the Lionel O gauge trains I lusted after as a kid and I’ll forever have that fire for anything train related.
Starter sets are so people can afford them who are usually buying them as a gift. The person who receives them as a gift is understood to have a blue-chip portfolio so they can afford to build a layout off the set. 😊
Biggest difference is that a lot of the older sets were made and marketed as toys. You could expand them and make layouts with it all, of course, but the emphasis was on play value and ruggedness.
Now it's all about models. People complain if it isn't super-detailed with separately applied parts and fitted with dcc and sound. What sets are available don't have very much in them and are expensive as hell.
Even with Lionel O in the 90's, the sets had way more in them than you get now, and they were all different.
You are so right... everything is a "model" and must recreate to perfection what the real thing is. I love the World of Warships reference... people become so bogged down with stats about ships, trains here, that the fun part totally flies out of the window.
This is something I’ve been saying for YEARS! I was never that interested in the train sets I saw in the 2010s, always in the super old stuff I saw at train shows. I’m so happy someone else shares my opinion.
My Dad gave me a Lionel train set back in the 1960s. It was a nice, solidly built train. As I got older and played less with the set. It was carefully packed away in the attic.
Years later after college I bought a house and decided to collect all my stuff and move it out of my parents house to mine.
When I couldn't find my train set I asked about it. Mom said she gave it to a cousin. I told her it was NOT her property to give away. She said I was too old for a train set and I again told her that Dad gave it to me and it belonged to me no matter how old I am.
Well my cousin gave it to his kids and they tore and busted it up. He didn't care, he didn't pay for it.
So I was very angry because my mom not only gave away the train set but she looted other stuff that was mine and either gave it or threw it away.
Years later my wife was gathering old stuff to give away or throw out and I stopped her cold. I told her not to do anything with my stuff unless she talks to me first. After I'm dead then she can do what she wants.
did you end up getting that lionel set back?
Dude, that is rough.
I secretly rescued my fischertechnik parts from my parents house soon after I moved out. But it turned out later that they would have asked us before giving away our toys. Did your parents know how much you valued your Lionel train set?
Yeah,my mom did that, but my trains were already saved by me but a lot of other things were lost.
My first train set (beyond the little wood trains) was a Lionel set. Not really my own, rather my whole family’s for the Christmas tree, but I was the only one who oiled it and cared for it. Later on, I inherited my grandfather’s Lionel basement empire, but it is mostly still in boxes until I find the room, lol
I actually got a Bachmann train set from a store for about $20ish, and honestly while it's a decent set your points are valid. The NS F unit is awesome, but the fact it only comes with like three cars and a circle of track is a disappointment. I had to go to a train show and hobby store just to get more track, rolling stock and locomotives to make the set at least half decent
Your points and comparisons jump all over the place. From faulting the inexpensive Bachmann starter set for only having 4 cars to praising the Tyco set which... also only has 4 cars. As a railroader who started out as a kid in the 80's I can say for certain that all of the beginner sets out there, with the possible only exclusion being Lionel O scale, were mechanical junk. Bachmann from the late 70's all the way through the 90's was horrible. Life like, while better, was not to the level of the hobby grade offerings from Athearn's Blue Box or the Atlas Yellow Box offerings. Because they had to try to be affordable so the draw to these sets were simply the super cheap entry price. My first diesel set was an H.O. scale Life-Like Rail Blaster. Came with a Chessie GP38, a handful of rolling stock, and a bunch of comically horrible scenery and automobiles. And for 10 year old me in 1990 it was excellent. It got me interested in trains. It didn't hold up under years of use but it was also what my working-class parents could afford. And it was enough to spark my interest in railroads but it was hardware that had to be replaced rather frequently until I was old enough to be able to afford my own purchases when I discovered the aforementioned Athearn and Atlas offerings. Which were far superior in quality but the higher price also reflected it. I still have almost all of the old Athearn and Atlas locomotives that I have purchased over the years and every now and then I run them, and the still run well. I also have some of the old Bachmann and Life-Like units. They, most of the time, don't run very well and weren't built with being serviced in mind. So they are all exclusively for display only.
Fast forward to now and the starter sets, while still being very affordable, come with a much higher quality of mechanism that is not only far more reliable but easy enough for a novice modeler to maintain. That Bachmann thoroughbred set, for example, is simple to set up, operate, and keep running even for my 13 year old nephew. And you can get the set for ~$100 if you shop around. When you account for inflation that is a TON more quality for the money than we got when I was a kid. The technology and materials have improved. Manufacturing processes have become FAR more efficient and what you get in a basic set now beats the crap out of a set that was new 30 years ago. Bachmann, more than any other manufacturer, has stepped up their quality in the last decade or so to the point where they are as reliable as anything else out there. Kato sets are very nice, but spendy when compared with Bachmann. But Kato has been building industry leading stuff for decades in N scale. For the parent that can afford it there isn't really a way to go wrong with getting your kid a Kato set.
Circling back around to an earlier point the main exception to most of this is Lionel O scale. They had been manufacturing bullet proof stuff for decades when these cheap 70's-80's sets hit the market. And those sets still hold up today. My brother bought a bunch of very old and well used Lionel (and to an extent Marx) O scale stuff and with a little TLC and care virtually all of it ran like new.
As far as the weird promotional sets that's not a new thing either. In the midst of losing market share rapidly to digital entertainment they're forced to try anything they can to make the trains appeal enough to children so they'll pester their parents to buy them one. Otherwise it's back to their iPhones.
Thank you for the info and I will be better about not jumping around. I have other comments about these 80s sets being bad and I am planning on comparing 2 of the same sets made 30 years apart.
@@spdaylight1 I'd definitely watch that video. One think to keep in mind. Materials can become brittle over time, especially plastic. So the older set will be at a disadvantage from material age from the start.
@@spdaylight1And. subscribed 🤠
I still have my dad's Lionel 1666 he got when he was a kid. Still runs like a dream. I don't think any starter set can last as long as thing thing has.
"If I had a nickel for everytime I've seen someone make a Flying Kipper joke tied into a video about trains sets, I'd have two nickels.. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.."
Jokes aside, I have to agree with you.
I remember my first train set quite well though, it was a Hornby " green giant" set, I believe it was the 2007 version.
I think I got the set when I was 7 (though I could be wrong) after the local "Toyworld" store was closing down, having a lot of things on sale my grandparents and mother decided to get it for me as a Christmas present.
I believe the original pice was $180 prior to the sale and ~$110 after, which was quite worth it at the time. (Edit: AUD for context btw, I sometimes forget currencies are different in other countries lol)
You got a little layout playmat thing, a rather mid-sized oval of track, the locomotive, two trucks and a brake van with a rather cheap controller tied in.
It's crazy to me though that the cheap controller in question is actually far better than the _really_ cheap controllers Hornby puts in their train sets today, the one I have from the 2007 set might be cheap but it never seemed to strain the locomotive unlike the modern Hornby controllers do.
Then the prices as we all know.. I really have to question if purchasing from Hornby is even worth it at times.. they make some fantastic models, don't get me wrong, but sometimes buying from them feels like highway robbery with the high prices and abysmal quality control.
Edit 2: Actually, there it is for a split second at 22:12 and 23:00 lol
I used to buy the used Bachman train sets for the tracks and rolling stock at train shows. It was a actually a great way to get those things for under $50
Buying older train sets is a great way to cheaply bulk up your fleet!
The Maxwell House billboard is actually a whistle that operates using a rotary-siren kind of tech. These sounded amazing!
The hi-cube box car in that set (Chattanooga Choo Choo) had a large roller filled with gravel in the center section. When rolled on the track it made a steam loco chuffing sound. The effect worked best with it run just behind the loco. The loco also had a smoke generator in the stack. Very nice set. That was my first set and I still have the loco (in pieces unfortunately).
Glad I wasn't the only to remember and have one in their set. Or Hodgepodge of every set I got as sets were often cheaper than buying me the track or cars and more convenience to the adults. As I would build into what I could on the dinning room table that was used once year.
@@ablemagawitch I used to set up mine on the living room floor. I'd use boxes and wooden blocks covered with bed sheets to make mountainous scenery.
I had one of these when I was a kid...I recall a red push button in the center between the billboards. Do you remember how it was powered?
@@ElJefeNScale-dj2wt I remember the red button being on a small (1"×1"×2") box with a wire leading to the throttle's constant 12V (?) output and another wire going to the billboard. In the center (top side IIRC) of the billboard is a squirrel-cage fan that drives the whistle. Both the button box and the billboard are a dark forest green.
My first was a used lifelike train set. Still works and I have all the pieces! The engine is a Union Pacific f40.
I remember those for sale at toys R us!
Just a reminder that $60 in 1970 is $470 now
my first train set would have been a Triang-Hornby Great Western goods train with a wee pannier tank locomotive and a few wagons and a circle of track, which had a Flying Scotsman added to it. they are now well over 40 years old, i still have them both, and they are both still runners!
One big thing that I have figured out from messing with both older sets and newer sets is that the older sets were built to a very cheap standard and the engines had terrible mechanisms and don’t really Stand up over time
Newer sets have much better mechanisms so if you take care of then it will last much longer. Track is also made using much better materials
And while yes some sets nowadays are relatively small, there are also a decent amount of sets that have really nice features
It depends on the set too, older bachmann and tyco sets weren't as good, but Mantuas are damn near bulletproof!
I rarely come across mantua sets which I help at a train store. So that would be an exception
You also didn’t take into account inflation. Take the price of the train sets you talked about and run it through An inflation calculator. The 73 dollar sets equates to about 560 dollars today. So at that time it would have been a very high end set compared to the low end modern sets you had shown
@@trainman05matthewb.65exactly, Mantua and Mehano/IHC stand up VERY well. I recently picked up an old Presidents Choice set by Mehano, and it’s still a great starter set, aside from the horn hook couplers and brass track!
My first train set was a lionel lionchief RS-3 and 3 boring freight cars. It came with a simple loop, and by itself I'm not sure i would've gotten into the hobby. Luckly, i was gifted a piggyback truck flatcar and railroad crossing with the set. That added so much more play value and made me interested. I am sure if complaies included more rolling stock and scenic items, (switches and sidings would be really really cool) then their sets would actually get people interested. Thanks for this video.
I've always wanted to get into model railroading, I've just never known how. My grandpa has a bunch of O gauge post-wars that I've been obsessed with since I was a kid. The detail and models are so fascinating I could sit and stare at them all day. When I feel the desire to get into the hobby, I look at a starter set and it just seems underwhelming. Which makes sense as a $150 starter set, but I just don't see a COOL train in the box. I've thought about buying specific engines and then building a railroad from scratch, but it's such a daunting task as a beginner I always stop before I even put something in my cart. I think someday I'll buy a Commander set and hopefully kickoff from there. Really enjoyed the video, helped cross some bad potential starter options off the list.
Thanks for good memories ! I got my first train set (Bachmann) back in 1974 for Christmas. It was then $30. As we were 4 children in the family, I thought I would never get it because it was a lot of money back then. At least for my mom and dad. I will always remember it. It had a CP Rail GP35 engine, a covered hopper, a gondola, a tank car, a boxcar and a caboose. All wearing CP scheme. It was coming with a 12V power pack and a 36" brass circular track set. It was terrible ! Meaning that it was like indestructible. Engine was all wheel drive. Cars were nicely built nearly like Athearn quality. But to answer your question: At the time, we boys (mostly) were playing with trucks and TRAINS. That's why there were so many train sets available. It was a BIG seller at every Christmas. I was so happy when my mom was giving me the Christmas catalog. The first thing I was doing was to get at the end of it and look at train sets. Knowing that I would never get $70 sets. It was too expensive. Today's kids don't give a sh... about model trains. That's the main reason why kits were thru the years getting cheaper, too expensive and finally disapeared from kids interest. Many kids of my age got train sets too at the time. So I bought tracks, cars and accessories like crossing grades, pipe unloader, bridges, etc for a cheap price from them because they were tired playing with it. And I kept running trains. Until today ! Today's trains may be A LOT more expensive, sound equipped, not turning around anymore... I can still feel the fun behind it. Nothing has never and will never give me the pleasure and satisfaction of model trains. It's like a disease. Can't get red of it ! Hopefully !
I always wanted a model Railway but they are so damn expensive today
The Metropolitan set here was 60 dollars
“now“ they are 100-200 per locomotive
And around 20-50 per railcar
I got a catalog from like 2012-2015ish
Don't even want to know what they cost now after Covid and inflation
Nailed it.
My biggest gripe with train sets is that since the late 90s, we haven't seen an affordable train set that is something you could very well see on the railroad. A GP38 or GP40 wasn't uncommon on a mainline train, but now a chop nose GP9 or GP38 would only be available if you happen to live on a shortline or a town with a yard. A Kid isn't going to know about steam, or an F Unit... but they recognize Dash 9s and GEVOs. And for all the flack Lionel gets (and deserves) for their fictional liveries... they did one thing right: An 0-31 set with a Tier 4 Gevo, Double stack, boxcar, and autorack. For a child raised in the 2020s that is something they can go see, then play with back at home! Modern modelers can bemoan and cry about how basic and lacking these models would be, but it's a foot in the door for a new generation who want to play with what they've seen.
I agree with you that train sets suck these days, and aren’t that interesting. I got into model railroading not too long ago and bought a Bachmann GP38 as well as the Bachmann first railroad track set, which had a odd-shaped oval, a passing siding, and small yard, however it wasn’t a train set. I think it would be a perfect deluxe set though, as it has a kinda interesting track plan. On another note though, comparing prices from the 70s/80s to present day isn’t completely fair, as inflation does exist.
I did a quick google search on his comparison of the 2-8-2. $73.50 in 1971 translates to $554.77 today.
@@laryjr1830 which 2-8-2? Also, how do you know the year, and technology has improved making older stuff cheaper, plus tooling costs are long covered.
@@laryjr1830 sorry about asking which 2-8-2, thought this was SMT Mainlines newist video 😂
I remember my first train set. It was the Thoroughbred train set from Bachmann. I even got it for about $70. It was very good for the time, and the engine looked like something out of the Spectrum line. I still have it, and recently did a refurbishment on it. It runs great. About a year after I got that was when I bought the Bachmann “Your First Railroad” track pack. It’s still active as the BL&G right of way.
My grandparents ran a hobbie store for 47 years. They specialized in Märklin and some of my earliest and favorite memories are us laying out the 1 gauge around the house.
We always set up the yard depot first and then used the flat cars to transport the track, switches, clips, and buffers to the farthest points of the line until we had completed the circuit around the house
They also have a HO Märklin layout in their basement, and now I get to bring my kids down there to play with the same engines and cars I got to play with.
I wish the internet was never invented because if it wasn't I think these hobbie shops would still be around. I would have loved to continue their shop but their just isn't the same World anymore.
We would stay there after closing time, and we would get Papa John's for dinner and run trains on the test track they had up on the front display cases...
This was the absolute best way to grow up in the late 90s to 2000s.
I concur. I don't blame the internet in its entirety. I pads have ruined toys far more than the internet.
@spdaylight1
Very true... Society is falling apart on all fronts, and I think trains in general represent a stone nation with heavy industries. We haven't had that for so long. I think kids can't connect to the idea of trains the same way.
This is one of my favorite videos this year, and certainly the best 20 minutes of my day. Thank you! Awesome!
I agree modern sets are not as exciting as older ones but a few points. 1: The exciting modern examples you showed are around $330, not affordable and around 3x what the small sets are sold for. 2: Inflation was not taken into account in the examples from the 70s, $71 in 1972 is worth $546 today which is not competitive. 3: The quality of these sets are higher than they were in the 80s which is part of the reason details have been cut back. I overall agree with what you're saying but it's kinda like comparing a Cadillac to a Corolla, when something costs more you're gonna get more.
Costs was not as big of a point to me. I'm happy to pay good money for a big set. I used the comparison of a brass model to a train set to better illustrate a cost-to-benefit. I believe direct inflation is not a great comparison tool as it does not take into account wages, production cost and other factors. I also felt if I did not mention the bigger sets people would point them out and say "well these exist and there cool looking". Thank you for your points! I will address them in future analysis.
so just like any hobby, the best way to win big is the used market
I really appreciate all the time. You put into your videos, Awesome job, brother. 😎👍
At 9:18 Maxwell House Accessory Billboard was a hidden sound effect for train steam whistles, masked between the two billboard sides.. It operated off a wired push button, powered from the main transformer's accessory terminals. You wired it on to the terminals you connected switches and every other powered activated accessory on. Which was a decently loud train whistle sound effect. I used mine quite a lot although the billboard wasn't as fun in the layout but hiding under the foam tunnel was a good placement. The spinning up and down of the plastic fan blade wheel is how it made the sound. As air passed through holes was what made the sounds, making sounds like a steam train engine's whistle that got louder than quieter, as it spun up and then down. So it sounded like the train was going by in the distance with approaching then trailing away in the distance. If you held the button down it would give the whistling sound at full volume/speed until you let off of the control button.
I'm totally with you on providing interactive features in the starter sets. Dump trucks, log unloaders etc. that actually work -- definitely the way to go!
When I was a kid, I had a Mantua set, the locomotive was metal, and my dad had to put some of the stuff together as I recall. I remember brass wheels on the tender as pick-up for the electric current. I would say they were well made.
Man I just discovered you an I love the emotion in and just your voice in general. Some bits in yoyr vid are kinda too loud though
My first trainset was the Mehano Thunderbolt Express which my dad built on the Woodland Scenices Mountain Valley kit. I also had a bunch of other random cars and some engines from my grandfather. The Santa Fe SD40-2 still runs fine today, 22 years later, though it needs cleaning.
Great video! Its so nice to see other young people into older HO scale models
I'm happy I saw this on my recommended as I've been planning on making a similar video on the issue with model trains in general. In your video you made some observations and points that I was hoping to bring up. The price of modern model trains is not pretty (I'm no Thomas Sowell but I'm sure inflation since the 70s is a factor) and the price for brass models, which 80% of the time are more accurate to the real-life prototype than more regular plastic models from the big companies like Bachmann or Broadway Limited, are outrageous. But I do agree that at the time, these sets were quality. Now that I'm older, I've begun to be more caring for Tyco's models. I still don't like many of them but I can't deny that many of it's products were good or even unique compared to what we have today. Going off a bit more of what you said about the use of 0-6-0s, I think Bachmann has really overused the USRA 0-6-0 for many of it's sets and rarely does Bachmann ever make any of them in the lettering of a railroad that actually had the USRA 0-6-0s on it's roster. You'll see USRA 0-6-0s in Union Pacific, Great Northern, AT&SF, The Dixie Line and Chessie but none of these railroads had USRA 0-6-0s in real life. If I were produce model train sets to get people interested in them, I'd go the extra mile to make the locomotives real life accurate. Let's be honest here, who doesn't want a model of Cotton Belt L1 No. 819 that looks exactly like the real life one and not a repaint of an NYC S Class Niagara with the smoke deflectors removed?
My first set was an HO scale life like set with the high nose red and silver Santa Fe gp38-2. My dad turned it into an awesome set with elevation, switches, a tunnel, a bank, a neighborhood with cul de sac, a railroad crossing, and a dump site for the side dump gondola. And he said he doesn't even like trains. I'll never forget that train set turned into a layout
You can get a Piko Mytrain starter set for $68.00 with rubber band drive loco which is literally just the Athearn hustler or the Mytrain ICE train for like $85.00 both without shipping though.
I agree as my modern Lionel train set broke in 2 years :|
My first HO set was the Bachmann lightning express.
First G scale set was the New bright Denver express with mechanical chugger, only the ones with the mechanical chugger and air whistle were the good ones, they even sold track expander packs with switches and a talking station and a cross track. they even sold separate rolling stock.
I also had the New bright rail king Electric set that had a CNW 2-6-2. The Pennsylvania version is quite rare.
I also had a Lionel chesapeake and ohio flyer with the Die cast atlantic it was very heavy.
I think the next one should be discussing the newer sets and their so called expansion packs. Also loved your video you put it into perspective as to why I'd rather buy them separately and just build my own modern sets are what I shake my head at and just keep scrolling
Super. My first HO scale train set was by Lionel, and had a 4-6-2 Pacific steam locomotive with tender, a stock car with moving horses, a gondola car, a hopper car, a box car, a flat car, a tank car, and a caboose, with every car proudly proclaiming "Blt. by Lionel" on the sides. My first N scale set was the Atlas FM CPA24-5 C-Liner 5 axle streamlined diesel, a tank car, a box car, a refrigerator car, a flat car, a hopper car, and a caboose. Everything has survived almost 50 years and is in operation on my model railroad. (HO/HOn30/N) Hello from the Tracy Mountain Railway in Colorado. 💙 T.E.N.
Expansion packs are actually something that KATO does with a lot of their "train in a box" type sets (the ones that don't come with track). You can buy a locomotive AND a couple cars all at once in a single box, then they also make multiple expansion kits to go with them. For example, the base N700 Shinkansen set comes with the two end cars, a power car and a middle car with a pantograph. They then make a 4-car expansion and an 8-car expansion to be able to make the full 16-car consist. Of course they also have their variation track sets, I just wanted to note that they do that with both their track and trains.
That Box of gimmicks reference to World of Warships caught me off guard lol
Nice video. My first set was a Lionel O gauge, don't know what set, but I think its a 2-6-0 or 2-8-0 (all metal, tender too) with several freight cars and a large oval (it's buried somewhere but it does still work). Though I've never really liked sets because to me a simple oval or figure-8 and 3-4 car trains are 'boring', so I never saw much value in sets. I'd much rather design and build a layout and buy locos and cars individually even though its more expensive.
My dad and I designed and built an HO layout from scratch on a 8ft x 4ft plywood table, with a small yard, small 'town' and a mountain (track tunneled in and looped up it and out) with a couple bridges; though we never got around to decorating and finishing it. We didnt use any sets for that, just went down to a model train store and got a Bachmann UP 4441 0-6-0 and several freight cars including an older crane car and matching service flatbed and all the stuff for the layout. Later on I got an Bachmann Flying Scot 46100 4-6-0 (4 pas. cars) set at a thrift store, used it once on my layout, dropped it and broke the pilot truck off the loco.
We moved and gave the layout to one of my dads friends, so both trains are shelf decoration until I can build another layout. Though I want to build a O scale narrow gauge (On30) next as I'm really interested in narrow gauge railroads at the moment.
Thank you for this video because this is something that I've been having a problem with. The few starter sets that are being offered are a bit too expensive and look cartoonish to me. There's little value to most of them. When I was a kid, I loved the local Sunday paper especially during Christmas time, all of the department stores had pages of advertisements for "trainsets", mostly Lionel O guage. Some of the biggest sets had many as 8 cars, not counting the locomotive,tender and caboose, and were no more than $149 or so. The smaller ones were no more than $49. But they looked more realistic and many had accessories with them.
Model railroading has become kind of snooty and it's a shame because I would love to revisit the hobby now that I'm older. Manufacturers should offer more, considering they are paying their employees in China way less than they used to pay when they manufactured here in the states.
I’ve been in the hobby now on and off since I was a kid, I’m almost 30. Every time I want to dip into a new scale or era, I look for a starter set because I like the “toy train” aesthetic of the hobby, just running trains. I think the main problem with train sets, at least in the US, is they are the same year after year. Bachmann has been pushing most of those HO sets since 2010 or before. Lionel is at least trying to make new starter sets but O gauge isn’t what it was in the past, my first set was a Lionel Alaska railroad freight set in a blue and yellow scheme. Now I’m into British OO gauge and Hornby, with all their flaws, consistently bring out new starter sets every year, if not every other year. Colorful and big locos, passenger sets mainly, but some freight. Same goes for Piko and Märklin with their European HO sets.
Yes buy the Northerner it’s a very good set comes with all the accessories you could ever ask for road signs, telephone poles the whole thing. Just make sure to have all your track perfectly connected if one rail is off or didn’t clip right you will think the leading wheels are useless but it’s almost always the track.
The Maxwell House billboard actually contained a powered fan that produced a whistle sound. The high cube boxcar contained a roller that had beads inside that made a “chuff” sound. The tender contained the motor so their was round in the boiler for a smoke unit.
Mine was based off of an actual narrow gauge railway in United States. It was the Durango and Silverton set it’s broken but I saw use it as a prop model, derailment incident, model, etc. and the next one I got the second one broke again and I don’t know what my brain was thinking of putting an HOCO train on my old couch.😅😅😅
This was a really cool video, I started out with a Bachman thoroughbred set but really didn’t get into proper trains until Kato, and also with a Kato starter set you get the same high quality as all the other sets for a cheaper price meaning your getting their high quality stuff without having to spend so much
My first set was funny enough was the overland limited. But for real, you took my word out of my mouth with this video. Can I recommend you can do a video on IHC, AHM, and Rivarossi?
I'm happy to do a deep dive into them. I will require research (spending spree) as AHM and IHC are the only of those 2 I have owned.
The bottom 2 n scale sets you showed (albeit their updated late 2000s versions) were my first 2 train sets. Not what they were called (can’t remember what the F9 set was called, but the 4-8-4 set was called the empire builder by that point) and I loved them. Between the 2 of them, and 1 booster set, is still all the snap track I own. They were excellent sets, both locos still run, although they are busted up a bit lol, but they were the epitome of what a team set should be. Cheap ish, durable, and fun. Great video, thanks!
I have a 1950's era American Flier train set I got in 1957. It has a trestle, station, 4 switches, an "X" and a whole mess of track. It can do a 10' oval with an "X" in the middle with the trestle along the rear straight section. I have a passenger train and a freight train for it. I also have 4-4-2 and a 4-6-2 engines with coal cars for each.
My first set was a Lionel scout set I got for Christmas in 1998. Still have it. Very basic starter set but it was built to last
I got the newer Overland Limited set in 2017 for $210 on Trainworld, I absolutely love that set, and of course still do have it! I do agree with you on everything you said here, it’s absolutely correct. Since then, I’ve added another starter set, this time a slightly older smaller one from Walthers, and 4 locomotives.
I agree. My first set was in 1993. The tornado by Bachmann. I got a bridge, trestle, telegraph poles, and road and rail signs. A 36x46” oval of track. A F unit and 3 freight cars and a offset caboose. Don’t even know the price today. I bought my son a Bachmann set 2 years ago. For around 200$ at hobby lobby. Came with a steam 0-6-0 and one gondola car and a caboose. Got home and not even a oval but just a 36x36” loop. Granted it was destroyed in a hour from soda being poured on steel track. Not even nickel silver. And all as my kids have little respect for such things. Unless it’s on a screen. My model taste went from HO to N scale shortly after joining the army as I could take a model with me overseas and sit in a hole and do some painting or something. But I remember also the cars you could buy. If operating was your goal over details. You could buy a car or locomotive that ran grate for half the price of the high end ones you see today. Still ready to run but details molded into the shell instead of all the separate parts installed. Or kits without details but detail sets bought after the model if you wanted it. I’m a operator when it comes to my model railroad so I just want it to work. I never minded the cheapest. Ugly model as long as it ran well. Seams the company’s like walthers and Bachmann forget this part of the hobby as well.
Thanks for making this video and please make the later train sets video!
It's really a shame that less train sets are interesting and more bland, especially when I switched to O gauge from HO in the mid 2000s when I was 11 years old because of the "Lionel" name some adults I know were talking about and I was also into I Love Toy Trains and various non-train set related Lionel merch. I am still collecting O gauge today while trying to get back into HO due to my one obsession with European trains (Hard to collect than my default North American stuff). While I currently pause on model railroading, I play Trainz (one of the simulator games) and I understand that it way has more bang for my buck these days.
I agree 100%. Also that Maxwell billboard in the Mammoth of the rails set is an electric whistle that sounds like an old steam train. If you ever find one that works I recommend picking one up.
22:43 Lionel does this. It kinda works... but is a bit clunky. I wouldn't say its value for money though, as most of the time it's been more expensive to buy the parts individually. That being said, the Kato V packs you mention do work. I see a lot of newer people to the hobby coming back to buy different addons.
The Tyco road and rail set was one of the best ideas ever. You were a popular kid if you had that. Wish AFX made a crossing section for HO track. They never bothered. Shame.
I had one too... and I was the popular kid on the block....
The Kato Version sets worked flawlessly on me… Now I have like so much of their track (and frankly I love it)
My first train set was a Hornby LNER set from the early 2000’s. Idk how much it cost but having a look at their recent prices, I can see why sales are slipping. Seriously, a diesel locomotive and 3 wagons shouldn’t be nearly £200 and don’t even bother looking at the Flying Scotsman or Mallard which exceed £200
Had the Golden Eagle set from TYCO as a kid and remember having a blast with it! I even kit bashed a Clementine gold mine conveyor belt with a motor and saw the ore flying across the room! Hey, I was just a kid! lol I remember also that Bachmann trains were hair pulling-ly frustrating to run!
I remember getting a HO Bachmann set and putting it on the track and running it, but when I went to reverse, the locomotive just plowed through the train. When that locomotive started quitting, I got a Life-Like set. My dad threw the throttle in reverse on that train and before I could go “nooooooo”, it successfully backed up, and not only that, but it was backing up over the bridge set that came with the Power-Loc track. I was a Life-Like loyalist after that, but Bachmann did get better, which is surprising considering that they don’t have as much competition as they used to. They could have continued to make crappy starter sets, but I think the points made in the video and in these comments sort of explain why they had to get better. Their N scale has always been dynamite, though.
My first train set was a hornby one with a GWR tank engine in it. Now I model australian and american stuff, but at least the set got me into the hobby! 😂
I've seen several of these videos. Yours is a good one. New sub. It's hard to remove nostalgia blinders whenever we look at new things, but you're absolutely right about the value for money in train sets. What's interesting though, is that the hobby is actually cheaper than it used to be. Those of you scoffing haven't actually adjusted for inflation and done the math. The $71 train set in the video would be $535 today. Good luck getting people to buy that. With modern manufacturing taking such a huge hit, I'm amazed any model railroad companies are turning any profit at all.
Modern bells and whistles (literally) that are bluetooth are what the new generations want. New people getting into the hobby today aren't going to say things like "the good old days of only DC and simple electronics". They're going to say "well this is boring".
You really did hit the nail on the head with the playability of train sets though. Switches and grade crossings and buildings (or even slot car crossings) add so much fun factor that just isn't in the modern circle + engine + 3 cars. It would be nice to see more of that included. With 3d printing getting better every day, it might become more economically viable, too. Hopefully...
There's also the remote control or "bluetooth" battery-operated trains to compete with. Train sets are pseudo-model-railroading. They're generally not as highly-detailed than buying the stuff individually, but they are built like model railroad equipment.
However today the toy train market is absolutely flooded with very cheap plastic stuff. If I'm a parent, why am I paying for metal track and running voltage through it from a company that makes models when I can get an all-plastic battery-operated toy for my kid that goes forward/backward/sound/headlight with the remote for 1/10 the price?
Not to mention the plastic track and wheels is more playable without finicky rail joiners and engine pickups that make the whole thing not work at all if there is any point of failure.
That intro to that game just gave me some serious flash backs to my child hood. Like holy shit dude
A pleasure
My first set was the Bachmann civil war set. Absolutely loved it, and it came with so many toy soldiers it was fantastic.
This dude needs more subscribers
Those older sets really were a lot nicer, especially the ones that came with turnouts. Another think about those sets is that you can rearrange the track layout to make a loop with a small yard or industry sidings or something like that, and then you can do both running and switching. It just makes your starter layout a bit more realistic, doesn't it?
Great video. I was actually thinking the same thing recently. Today's train sets definitely lack that "wow" factor. However, I grew up with these sets and while the manufactures packed a lot into the sets, they were not the greatest quality. The accessories didn't work too well, and derailments were frequent enough to be frustrating even in the hands of adults - forget getting them into the hands of kids! In retrospect, they were also humorously not prototypical. i.e. You could get a set with a steam locomotive hauling cars and road names that didn't exist in the steam era! Today's starter sets have less, but the quality of the trains has improved significantly, and they are more prototypically accurate. Having said that, I don't see that many operating accessory offerings in sets or for separate purchase, either. That might be territory worth revisiting for the manufactures. Hopefully they revisit the sets of yesteryear and find a balance between quality, prototypical accuracy, and the "wow" factor.
God, the 3D Ultra Lionel TrainTown intro really hooked me in. That game was my childhood lol
I totally hear the OP about expansion packs, as I recall the back page of many TYCO HO-scale train brochures/catalogs having a full-page display that read "Add any circle of track... to this 4'x6' layout"... with a second picture displaying how such a layout could be expanded even further, and decorated/added to with accessories found inside.
I had this set, the maxwell thing is actually an electric whistle...you hold down the red button and then a little fan in the middle of the green box (starts spinning and the air goes throw a venturi) and it sounds like a steam train whistle.
First: current problem is our economy. Second: our obsession with things on a screen, instead of hands on. Third: MFG's are focused on dumb issues, or selling for the advertising of other companies. Forth: the hobby has several angles, and for years it was the angle of keeping it scale and real looking to be seen but not touched for the most part. Fifth: some companies were to focused on copying another or the other was to sue happy to find fault with that other company. (Lionel, MTH, K-line, Taylor made Trucks, RMT)
Find a good working used set, from the web or in a local market or thrift store, or better yet from a model train operator.
Speaking of play value, I don't know the dates when these were made, but K-line (3 rail O gauge) made a line called Husky. I bought some of the diesel Husky engines and find them to be a bit out of scale, but they were meant to be a more durable toy as best I can tell. Built with a single motor and electronic reversing unit and back and front changing head lights. The side hand railings on the unit are plastic but much heavier then the regular units made by other brands. They are screwed on with many screws, however to get into the works of it inside it is not very easy, making it a nice thing for a kid that might tinker and the first thing a kid might do to it is unscrew the hand railings. Sadly K-line is out of business directly and Lionel has much of the rights of those products and many parts Lionel makes for their diesels are similar. I have several of the Husky engines and find them fun and durable, good for 5-10 rail cars for sure.
Dude, the intro. that hits hard and wants to go play it again.
my first set is a Bachman Santa Fe Flyer kit I got for $50 used that came with a additional NYC boxcar and I just bought 4 pieces of code 100 9" straight track for $15 so now i have a oval along with a union pacific boxcar for $20 but for $85 invested so far I'm super happy with what I got for a starting kit into this hobby!
my 90s Bachmann trainset was an oval of track with a diesel locomotive, 3 freight cars, a caboose, a signal bridge, and a bunch of signs and figures. Not huge, but better value than the 1 or 2 cars that the modern ones seem to come with.
I was awarded two or three sets at an entirely too young age and I promptly wrecked them. I guess my dad tried to get something started with them, but to answer the question: the one I started building my first layout from was Life-Like’s Blazing Rails. $40 in 1997, if I remember right. I was 10, and I’ve had an HO layout in every place I’ve lived since then, until recently. That GP38 and its later-acquired friends were all still running, albeit nowhere close to as great as some of the better designed locomotives I’ve bought in more recent years.
The “accessories” really made those old sets pretty cool. I’ve always been a road enthusiast as well; I was building Micro Machines cities prior to my first layout, and the authentic DOT traffic signs in the Life-Like sets caught my eye. I still have so many of them, the signal bridges, “automatic” crossing gates, and stockyard pens, in boxes somewhere out in the garage that I’m supposed to be building my next layout in. And the trackside shanties; can’t forget those. They all bring back good memories.
I got that Road & Rail set for Christmas one year. I forgot about it until this video. Great memories!
Dad started me out with the Tyco motorized plastic track set at Preschool Age and then I got a Life-Like Santa Fe freight set for Christmas of '92 or thereabouts for my first train. My first "real" trains were some Athearn SW units in BN and a tray of open cars from a train show and he set up a 4x8 double oval a friend of his sold him in the screen room off the house. That was my entry into model railroading when I was maybe 7, and it was something my friends would mess around with if it was too hot to go outside, but we couldn't stay in to play video games all day. Now, the pricing for modern trains have made those experiences impossible for most kids if they were interested at all. That said, there's two railroad parks in the Phoenix area, on in Scottsdale, the other in Glendale near Deer Valley, and kids still love trains. Simple sets would still sell.
The bigger question is there an appetite for toy or entry level train sets among the same target customers that there were in the 60's through early 80's? I know as a kid in the 60's and early 70's I was an avid modeler. Plastic model kits, trains, etc. Most of my friends were to...that is when we are not outside playing sports or other outdoor activities. I used to get Tyco train sets from somebody in the family every Christmas. In '72 my Dad, Grandpa and myself built a 13' x 12' model train set based on one the the Atlas plans. I was into trains and so was my family. BUT, it stopped with me. My brother who is 19 years younger had a year with an interest in trains but then he discovered video games...that was that. My grand kids thought my trains were cool, but have no interest in doing it themselves. My point is the people that are interested in trains are who? Older aka 20/30's, later in life or retired?.... are those that are interested in trains want trains with details and DCC and not toy trains. Are most others find trains nostalgic and something you put up around Christmas or it the price of entry to steep and that keeps most out?
I have most of my older gear from those times and I do actually purchase older Athern Blubox and AHM gear as well as newer gear. Since I had the track, switches, controllers etc from that DC era, I just stayed with it, finding that I do not get enough value from investing in DCC. I enjoy more the art of modeling and creating and not really into running realistic consists, engaging in complex switching, and as an audio engineer by trade, the overall plastic sound that comes out of locomotives with DCC does not work for me. Not to mention my investment in the DC system is a lot, hundreds of pieces of rolling stock and locomotives, miles of track and a box full of those old Atlas switches. I currently have a 16' x 14' railroad in my basement and the set up is old school. The only "new school" is the led lighting. Yes I have modern pieces but I did not make the jump to DCC and that allowed me to get back into the hobby without breaking the bank.
Not saying DCC is a bad thing at all....just one of the many facets of our hobby. We all pick and choose what interests us the most. Point is maybe the right path to get people into model railroading is not about the set you can buy but what you can do.
So what is the best train set to get...the one you have :-)
3:37 I can't believe Senator Armstrong is actually Lionel final boss holy crap somebody make a game theory on this one!
the world is a weird place man.
The Metroliner set at 10:05 is pretty badass ngl. Great video.
The problem with the cost of train sets is that back then, these engines were seen as toys and while many had issues with mechanism (with exception of the time being Hornby, with their Ringfield motor even setting a world record) but things went downhill for railway modelling (as "model railroading" is called outside of the US) when video games appeared. Since then, the idea of them being toys just went away and had since became more as highly-detailed scale models with hundreds of separately-fitted parts that could easily break off. This becomes more so as the tooling to make the models is rather expensive itself, which is primary drive for the prices.
Also for the question asked earlier in the video, my first train set was the Hornby Caledonian Belle train set. The set itself contained a single Caledonian Railway 264 "Pug" class 0-4-0ST, an open wagon, a single 4-wheel coach and an oval of track. You could say it's not much of a starter set but, you have a tiny 0-4-0 that flies along because it has the same motor as a slot car. Pity the motor on modern releases has been slowed down (HORNBY!)
In the early 70s I made the move from O gauge to HO. A local discount store had an isle dedicated to HO. It was all Tyco. Very reasonably priced and a great variety. The best item they had were their switches. They were remote controlled and the switch button was lighted. Green if set straight and red if set to the siding but the best part was the switch motor was "landscaped" with a dirt mound with vegetation spread over it to disguise the switch motor. It was not expensive, pretty cool and very easy to set up. I haven't seen anything like that since. I still have one or two of those but they no longer work. Great stuff and great times. Somehow, I missed the whole trucks and roads thing. With what I have seen on the web it appeared to be a big deal but that store didn't stock it and the whole thing passed me by.
My dad got me the Chattanooga Choo-Choo for my ninth bday in 1992. I loved that set. My grand parents bought me the Bachmann Smokey Mountain Express. Also loved that set. I sadly don’t have any pieces of those sets anymore as the pieces broke, I’d use parts as practice for projects, or I’d pass it on to younger relatives. But I loved mode railroading from that point on. Currently at almost 40, I have a layout and train collection that nine year old me would be quite impressed by, but I’ll always have fond memories of those train sets. I agree that train sets with a good assortment of components to start, and those do not have to be nearly the same detail level as high end models now, but just solidly built, fun trains. I think train shops that can help people out together a set with things like locos, power packs, track packs, and get set up easily could be a great service too.
"fantasizing that are box car is being loaded and unloaded"😂🔥
My first set was an o gauge Lionel set. I dont remember what it was called. Early 2000s, 4-4-2 steam loco, flat car, box car, caboose. All in prr colors. I miss that set
My first train set was the Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo, I was really young when I got it, I don't remember how old exactly, but I was very young, really too young for the train, so it mainly my uncle who'd bought it for me who'd play with it, and I for to press the button for the train whistle, but I loved that train.
One of my friends had one of the Tyco highway sets with the semi trucks, but he never had any of the pieces to combine it with the train sets, that would've been so cool, I wish I knew that set existed back then.
A few years ago before Toy R Us closed I thought about buying my nephews a train set, I wasted a trip to Toys R Us only to find out they didn't carry train set anymore. What kind of toy store doesn't carry train sets? So I went to the local hobby shop and I shocked to see how expensive the train sets were, so I decided to get my nephews the board game Axis & Allies instead.
The "Maxwell House" thing you speak of @ 9:12 is an operating billboard whistle that you hooked up to the accessory post on your transformer.
The major Japanese n-scale manufacturers (Kato and Tomix) do what you were talking about with expansion packs. There's starter sets with an oval, power supply and 3/4 cars of a particular train. Then there's add-ons for the trains themselves to bring them up to prototype length (this also applies to non-starter set trains too), a dozen odd add-on track sets that have example layouts for combining with the basic set, and also some with one or two other track sets. All the track is set pieces that are durable and easily put together and taken apart many times and there's a very wide variety of it (single, double, wooden/concrete sleepers, concrete slab, viaduct, superelevated and more).
I would say the one thing that is better with today’s kits than it was back then is the quality of the snap track. The original track that came with those sets was terrible It was always coming apart and causing derailments, but the 10 times multiplier on the cost of these sets is not justified even with the new EZ track. My original N scale yard boss was 19.99 at KB toy store. The yard boss that I bought last year was $180. Just insane.
good video on an interesting subject. A little constructive feedback: the audio was all over the place. I was constantly adjusting the volume up so I could hear your narration, but all the sound effects were way too loud.
Noted! I taking a course on audio.
See this is why I my local hobby shop tended to make their own starter sets and sell those, with $150, $200 and $300 variants.
And a $75 used variant which was consited of old toy stuff from the local train swap meet at the county fairgrounds. The old locomotives definitely got
a motor replacements and oftentimes had their lights fixed if applicable and were often made DCC ready. Nice consist for the layout a good power pack to provide room to grow and a nice collection of track.
And the more expensive ones were basically the same deal with all new stuff. They did tend to use bachmann EZ track but it was the nice nickle silver stuff and you got a lot of nice pieces I gave you a lot of flexibility with your construction
So many factors here.... today's kids don't grow up with trains as commonplace as previous generations did. That first hand unfamiliarity kills demand for trains as a plaything. Secondly, the decline of model trains as a popular kid's toy can be charted along side the rise of video game systems. In fact, many traditional kid's toys and games have suffered at the hands of electronic gaming. And lastly, model railroading itself has evolved greatly since its heyday. Men like Lionel Cohen and Louis Marx were mass producers of durable, easily serviceable, and, on a relative scale, somewhat affordable toy trains aimed primarily at America's boys (albeit often through their fathers.) Today's trains are a niche, almost boutique product, rivaling the most advanced computers in their sophistication and delivering levels of detail beyond the scope of economically driven mass production. Today's manufacturers cannot afford "loss leaders" because they don't have the massive consumer base to absorb the loss through other sales. I've been chasing trains since I was four years old and I love this hobby but trains are not a shared daily real world experience among our young any more. It's going to take a positive shared national experience to reignite mass interest in toy train sets on the scale they enjoyed prior to video game sets.
I live in an industrial city with two NS mainlines running through, so trains are still pretty common here (though not as often as 30 years ago). And my kids could not care less when a train rolls through in front of us at a crossing. I remember being excited any time I'd see a train at a crossing when I was a kid.
I think kids are just generally disinterested now.
Economy of scale. The pre 80's sets weren't competing against video games and were able to sell more and make less profit per set. And I cannot emphasize this enough-the lack of low cost kits for kids to build is relegating this hobby to an old man's game.
I don’t know about the manufacturers, but the train set today is difficult for most kids growing up in the kind of houses that they are. A laptop computer simply takes up a lot less space than a 4 x 8 piece of plywood.
One thing I think Hornby did right with their British-outline models was that as they updated their models with better motors, finer details, and so on, they kept the older models for train sets.
So you can for instance, get a beautifully detailed model of the Flying Scotsman loco for $250. Or, for the same money, you can get a lower-detail model in a set with a few passenger carriages (again, older less detailed designs), a controller, an oval of track, a siding, etc.
According to one inflation calculator, $73 in 1979 is about $307 today - so bang on with your brass comparison.. Not bad value for money.
When i was a kid my parents got me a Lionel toy train set with the 3rd rail pick up. It came with the Santa Fe SW-1 loco a few cars and I think it was a Santa Fe work caboose. Dad built a decent layout. An oval.of track with a passing siding it had a crossing signal. It was crude but it kept me out of my parents hair for awhile. Then due to situations beyond my control we moved out of that town. To a house without a basement. So the trains were put into boxes for future playtime.Then later on they for Christmas they bought me a Tyco Santa Fe passenger train set F-7A & F-7B set then a couple of years later I got a I'll call it the Petticoat Junction train set. But it had a Michelob passenger car. And something of a post Civil War tank car. I think they used to ship pickles in those cars. But never had another trsin layout.
I remember seeing the HO trains and roadway set. Thought it would be so cool to have a big enough train lsyout to actually incorporate both sets. But when that came out we were living in the house without a basement. So thats my story. Thanks for posting it. Have a blessed day everyone