Howard one of the things I used to do if I found a format I liked and thought I wanted to use in the future ( this I learned after finding one I liked that for whatever reason it was no longer available) was to scan a few blank pages, before they got used up and could no longer be found new. At least that way I could print my own pages. The new books never seem to have enough pages in them!
That’s a good idea. The nice thing about having mine professionally printed is they used the heavy “write-In-rain” type paper. I’m sure that’s available for use in a home printer, but I’d have to look for it.
I am NOT a sniper. However, this was a very informational video. I do a lot of handloading. I keep detailed records with reloading techniques, powder, bullet, brass brand, primer brand, overall length, weather, wind, loads fired, results with measurements, chronograph info and more. I modified my form over the years and have it in a Word document with tables. Data goes into the computer after I get home from shooting. I have been using digital photos more recently as well in the records. I keep all of the loads, be they good or bad, in a small binder for the firearm. This keeps me from trying a load that was bad in the future, and also repeating an exact load for the gun that was very good. Bad ones go into the back separated by a divider for good loads in the front with a smiley face in the header. The most useful data is how I felt that day. Was I too caffeinated? Was I more tired than regular? Whatever, ME, the shooter had an issue with. This has helped me a LOT over the years. Also, I have a section to report how the load did on game if the load went hunting. As for calling the shot, I learned that in Basic Training back in 1979 in San Diego. I generally am pretty accurate when I execute shooter error. Some days one is just not "on". That yields good information as well. I have cancelled a hunt because I knew I did not feel well enough. Since I hunt on the ranch here in South Texas where I live, that is no big deal. I'm older now so I do not do out of state hunting any more. I shoot primarily hogs and deer now for meat.
Someone should make a 3 ring binder and additional insert pages. Oh wait you can buy a 3 ring binder and customize the pages on a word program, the save it and print additional pages, use dividers to have a section for each rifle. Good video to get a person's mind thinking on what to add.
👍👍having data on your shooting is very useful even if you’re not a precision shooter or a sniper. That’s some good information you put out , thanks HR.
Dear SNIPER Funk, thank you for this truly instructive video. As a non-sniper, I found this to be an extraordinarily valuable and infroative presentation. I hope you (and others) will excuse a brief comment and a specific recommendation. COMMENT: Having zero experience with sniping, I was struck with - AT THE CONCEPT LEVEL - the similarity between the data book and the actual of data we use for specific aircraft, major systems and sensors, gas turbine engines, and so forth. Yes, they are all built identically to print, specifications, etc. on the same machinery, with the same tooling and assembly methods, using the same materials and parts. BUT, just like two rifles that are sequentially produced on the same manufacturing line, there are differences. This information often is important in depot level fault isolation, which is the critical step preceding maintenance correction. RECOMMENDATION: Like you, I believe this would potentially be a terrific software application.
When snipers were captured in WW2 many were executed on site , your main objective as a sniper is to neutralize the highest rank you can engage and they make the rules.
@@waggtech4883 Those guns were never fully implemented in the Army but I have seen some , originally one DM per squad was envisioned , the guns I have seen were A2s made by FN with a 20 inch barrel , bipod and 4 power scope as well as a two stage trigger increasing effective range for a squad out to 700 meters.
Thanks HR!!! Had this video been posted 2 years ago, I probably wouldn’t have watched it. Now I create my own loads and have tinkered with several books before deciding to make my own using a loose leaf binder. I made copies of various pages from on-line sources and created some of my own. At the range, I make the plots and my notes and put/transcribe them into my binder after the fact. You provided some great info that I will incorporate in the future! I’m nowhere at your level, but I’m aspiring to get there. Thanks again!
Very interesting. I shoot out to 600yds sub-MOA and use ballistic calculators and weather apps to know my holds. I typically save boxes of ammo and write the group size and any shift in POI/drop on the box from my particular rifle.
Good Idea- Thanks Marine! Kind of wish Army kept those range data books too. I expect it would really inspire the Marksman esprit de corps that I see lacking with the young warriors coming up...
I’m a fan of the heavy weather proof books printed on Rite-in-the-Rain paper. I’d taken a couple of classes that having a data book present was required, yet, there was no structure discipline in the course to make entries… and PRS shooting isn’t friendly for recording data either. Beyond that though they are useful for building performance data. I found zipper covers at a bookstore meant for Bibles that fit perfectly and have some neat scripture suiting the purpose… 😊 They also make recipe card size pocket data books that work well for accurized rimfire. I’d still say the discipline of recording meaningful data every trip out is difficult, but in the long run worthwhile.
I'm beginning to think that your initials "HR" stands for home run, because you just hit another one! No apologies needed sir-that was a lot of hard-earned knowledge you passed on and we appreciate it. I know this was more about how you gather information on your DOPE book, but a suggestion for a future video might include what data to gather in the first place for rifle shooting, especially for new shooters. I found out that my living at 7000 feet makes a huge difference when I visit friends who live at sea level. My 30-06 zeroed at my altitude drops a full MOA at sea level using the same ammunition because of the air density, barometric pressure and temperature. That's good information for snipers, hunters and competitors traveling to different areas of the country just to name a few. Always a pleasure to pick your brain and learn from your experience!
Very good video the subject may not have been that exciting but your video was not boring in any way you a great job of explaining why it is important to be successful at shooting long range
When I was in the Army they had three bolt guns for snipers, 7.62 ×51 338 lap and 300 win mag , the 300 mag was the best and in recent military tests the 6.5 C outperformed them all .Less recoil is always better shooting long.
Great bud! Have you thought of producing a data book of your own design for sale? Sounds like you have a great understanding of what is important to shooters in regards to record keeping.
I was a police sniper for years and I don't remember anyone objecting to the word sniper. It wouldn't have mattered anyway. I went to the US Army law enforcement course in Ft.Meade,Md. and the three week FBI course at Ft.Dix,NJ and found both of them very good. Both stressed the use of data books and cold bore zero. Did you keep your dope on the inside of your rear scope cover? Good video on an important subject. Semper Fi.
I’m not a sniper. Never wanted to be a sniper. I shoot an M1A with some regularity. I need one of these books. As a side note, by the grace of God, I’m still able to shoot with satisfactory results with no vision correction
@@yukon4545 I haven't looked at their site for a while, but I suspect those data books are intended for NRA/CMP match shooting. They aren't quite right for professional purposes.
Thank you for all you do to produce these videos. This one was for me was a need to know as I plan on getting time behind my rifle this year. Over the last five years I have given my pistols more attention. An area of focus from a training point is getting to an outdoor range and shooting targets out at different distances, based on range limits. Part of my plan includes watching videos of subject matter experienced shooters. This is why I considered this video as a need to know, as I have been looking for a comprehensive DOPE book, or a good setup for pre-made range cards. As you know, there are numerous different discussions on this topic on TH-cam. I have even done some research on apps that wii guide you through shooting solutions. That in itself is for me confusing. Right now I am looking at Hornady’s 4DOF app and feel this might be a good starting point for a beginner. Have you seen it, and maybe used it?? According to the app it will create DOPE cards, which I think would be beneficial for me. I say that I like you am not sure there is a comprehensive DOPE book that has the features you mentioned in this video. I am interested in your thoughts. Thank you for any help.
I think part of my problem is I'm an "old Sniper." I learned to use datebooks and extrapolate the data by shooting, recording, and analyzing my shots. Along the way, I sort of developed my own system for documenting my data and creating things like range cards, wind tables, etc. A digital tool such as a phone app would be extremely convenient, but I'm afraid I would almost have to design it myself. I've not seen the Hornady app you mentioned. I'll try to take look at it when I get a chance. Thanks for watching.
@@hrfunk Thank you for your quick response. I think that I am just very excited to start shooting my Savage 308 Win at an outdoor range that I might be driving my self crazy with looking for an easy way to accurately recording what and how well I do. Maybe I need to stop watching all these long range shooting videos. Just kidding as I enjoy the contents. As part of my training / learning experience I will use a good old fashioned note book to record all of the data you discussed to include the environmental elements. Please continue producing awesome and straight from the hip videos.
@richardoliver1468 Will do. Best of luck to you. Remember, long range precision shooting is all about consistency. Everything from planning your shot, to executing your marksmanship technique, to analyzing your data must be dispassionate and consistent.
Hello HR. Informative video today. As an NRA high power service rifle competitor I found data books a necessary tool. Sniper or precision rifle operator, in the words of the Bard, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." Do you use a small condensed data card mounted on your rifle?
Good informational video. Appreciate your presentation and thinking outside the box for content. I can see professional and semiprofessional shooters and hunters using this, not just "snipers".
Another informative video Howard! These rifle data books don't necessarily have to be used by LEO and/or military snipers. Anyone who considers themselves a precision shooter would benefit from this type of information and to have it as a valuable resource; to include hunters and especially long range hunters. I was a Ranger platoon sniper back in the 1970s (we were issued M21 rifles with Leatherwood A.R.T. scopes), the technology and resources that are available today would have definitely helped us back then.
Thanks for this video. It was very educational and informative. I'm just starting to get Into this approach to shooting for both rifle and pistol. This leads me to this question: can this approach also be applied to pistol shooting as well? Have you taken this approach for your pistol shooting? Or, do you use a different approach for your pistol shooting?
I don’t know of anyone who has used this process with handguns. Typically handgun shooting is a close range undertaking, so there is negligible influence from all the variables that effect long range rifle accuracy.
Started recording every round in my 6.5prc waypoint and that .308 fn spr…175ish rds in each…like your 700p 168gmm will cut a penny sized hole…it’s a mod70 controled rd feed beefy super wore in feelin action..but bolt wear shows to have not been fired much…my buddie got him a 20” bergara hmr in.308 with $$$ I gave him for it so we both won….🫡
I’ve handled an SPR, but never fired one. Based upon their heritage (Winchester Model 70), I’m sure it’s a great rifle. The Waypoint interests me, but MAN are they pricey. I would like to try one of the .22 versions released earlier this year, but I haven’t run across one yet. Keep an eye on that data book and it will help you in many ways.
@@hrfunk I think I’m gonna get that book you have..love the intricacies of yer call vs poi and all that jazz…those 110s strike 2” high@100 and hit bout center of a 20oz@254yrds. Ol Buddie said it won’t shoot 175s..is that your findings of a 1:12” twist..?
Howard one of the things I used to do if I found a format I liked and thought I wanted to use in the future ( this I learned after finding one I liked that for whatever reason it was no longer available) was to scan a few blank pages, before they got used up and could no longer be found new. At least that way I could print my own pages. The new books never seem to have enough pages in them!
That’s a good idea. The nice thing about having mine professionally printed is they used the heavy “write-In-rain” type paper. I’m sure that’s available for use in a home printer, but I’d have to look for it.
I am NOT a sniper. However, this was a very informational video.
I do a lot of handloading. I keep detailed records with reloading techniques, powder, bullet, brass brand, primer brand, overall length, weather, wind, loads fired, results with measurements, chronograph info and more. I modified my form over the years and have it in a Word document with tables. Data goes into the computer after I get home from shooting. I have been using digital photos more recently as well in the records. I keep all of the loads, be they good or bad, in a small binder for the firearm. This keeps me from trying a load that was bad in the future, and also repeating an exact load for the gun that was very good. Bad ones go into the back separated by a divider for good loads in the front with a smiley face in the header. The most useful data is how I felt that day. Was I too caffeinated? Was I more tired than regular? Whatever, ME, the shooter had an issue with. This has helped me a LOT over the years. Also, I have a section to report how the load did on game if the load went hunting.
As for calling the shot, I learned that in Basic Training back in 1979 in San Diego. I generally am pretty accurate when I execute shooter error. Some days one is just not "on". That yields good information as well. I have cancelled a hunt because I knew I did not feel well enough. Since I hunt on the ranch here in South Texas where I live, that is no big deal. I'm older now so I do not do out of state hunting any more. I shoot primarily hogs and deer now for meat.
Someone should make a 3 ring binder and additional insert pages. Oh wait you can buy a 3 ring binder and customize the pages on a word program, the save it and print additional pages, use dividers to have a section for each rifle. Good video to get a person's mind thinking on what to add.
👍👍having data on your shooting is very useful even if you’re not a precision shooter or a sniper. That’s some good information you put out , thanks HR.
Dear SNIPER Funk, thank you for this truly instructive video. As a non-sniper, I found this to be an extraordinarily valuable and infroative presentation. I hope you (and others) will excuse a brief comment and a specific recommendation.
COMMENT: Having zero experience with sniping, I was struck with - AT THE CONCEPT LEVEL - the similarity between the data book and the actual of data we use for specific aircraft, major systems and sensors, gas turbine engines, and so forth. Yes, they are all built identically to print, specifications, etc. on the same machinery, with the same tooling and assembly methods, using the same materials and parts. BUT, just like two rifles that are sequentially produced on the same manufacturing line, there are differences. This information often is important in depot level fault isolation, which is the critical step preceding maintenance correction.
RECOMMENDATION: Like you, I believe this would potentially be a terrific software application.
If I had the technical skills, I would probably be working on a digital data book now. Unfortunately, I do not.
Fantastic Content Sir Thank you!!!
You're welcome!
....although I created my own Data/Dope Log, I appreciate this kind of content - a guy can always learn - Thank You Sir fer sharing !!
My pleasure Eric. Thanks for watching!
Not everyone can be a sniper,,,,,call it what it is, great job…. Data book helps with shooting history, very helpful information
When snipers were captured in WW2 many were executed on site , your main objective as a sniper is to neutralize the highest rank you can engage and they make the rules.
It seems “designated marksman” is used almost as often…😊
@@waggtech4883 Those guns were never fully implemented in the Army but I have seen some , originally one DM per squad was envisioned , the guns I have seen were A2s made by FN with a 20 inch barrel , bipod and 4 power scope as well as a two stage trigger increasing effective range for a squad out to 700 meters.
Thanks HR!!! Had this video been posted 2 years ago, I probably wouldn’t have watched it. Now I create my own loads and have tinkered with several books before deciding to make my own using a loose leaf binder. I made copies of various pages from on-line sources and created some of my own. At the range, I make the plots and my notes and put/transcribe them into my binder after the fact. You provided some great info that I will incorporate in the future! I’m nowhere at your level, but I’m aspiring to get there. Thanks again!
My pleasure Darrell. Thanks for watching!
Very interesting. I shoot out to 600yds sub-MOA and use ballistic calculators and weather apps to know my holds. I typically save boxes of ammo and write the group size and any shift in POI/drop on the box from my particular rifle.
Good Idea- Thanks Marine!
Kind of wish Army kept those range data books too. I expect it would really inspire the Marksman esprit de corps that I see lacking with the young warriors coming up...
I’m not absolutely certain the Marine Corps still issues them. Maybe some younger Marines can let us know.
Thank you explaining the importance of a data book. I see we both share the same first name. Take care!
You’re welcome Cliff!
yep
I’m a fan of the heavy weather proof books printed on Rite-in-the-Rain paper. I’d taken a couple of classes that having a data book present was required, yet, there was no structure discipline in the course to make entries… and PRS shooting isn’t friendly for recording data either.
Beyond that though they are useful for building performance data. I found zipper covers at a bookstore meant for Bibles that fit perfectly and have some neat scripture suiting the purpose… 😊
They also make recipe card size pocket data books that work well for accurized rimfire.
I’d still say the discipline of recording meaningful data every trip out is difficult, but in the long run worthwhile.
Discipline is the name of the game. It’s not, or at least it shouldn’t be, a high volume undertaking.
I'm beginning to think that your initials "HR" stands for home run, because you just hit another one! No apologies needed sir-that was a lot of hard-earned knowledge you passed on and we appreciate it. I know this was more about how you gather information on your DOPE book, but a suggestion for a future video might include what data to gather in the first place for rifle shooting, especially for new shooters. I found out that my living at 7000 feet makes a huge difference when I visit friends who live at sea level. My 30-06 zeroed at my altitude drops a full MOA at sea level using the same ammunition because of the air density, barometric pressure and temperature. That's good information for snipers, hunters and competitors traveling to different areas of the country just to name a few. Always a pleasure to pick your brain and learn from your experience!
Thanks David. I try to work these topics into videos from time to time. I’ll see what I can come up with in the future.
Another informative video. Thank you for making this available sir.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
Very good video the subject may not have been that exciting but your video was not boring in any way you a great job of explaining why it is important to be successful at shooting long range
Thanks John!
When I was in the Army they had three bolt guns for snipers, 7.62 ×51 338 lap and 300 win mag , the 300 mag was the best and in recent military tests the 6.5 C outperformed them all .Less recoil is always better shooting long.
The best data book is the one you build yourself. Wonder If excel would work. Have several different sheets that would fit your requirements
There are some generic examples you can find on the internet. They can serve as a template.
Great bud! Have you thought of producing a data book of your own design for sale? Sounds like you have a great understanding of what is important to shooters in regards to record keeping.
I would love to, but no one has asked me to do it, and I don't have the printing capacity to offer one without assistance.
Most excellent presentation. People just do not understand how keeping good records helps them with barrel use and weather conditions.
I agree.thanks for watching John.
This was really helpful! I have been looking for some data books like what we were issued for Table 1 style qual. This gives me some extra options.
I was a police sniper for years and I don't remember anyone objecting to the word sniper. It wouldn't have mattered anyway. I went to the US Army law enforcement course in Ft.Meade,Md. and the three week FBI course at Ft.Dix,NJ and found both of them very good. Both stressed the use of data books and cold bore zero. Did you keep your dope on the inside of your rear scope cover? Good video on an important subject. Semper Fi.
Thanks Charles. I didn’t keep my dope there, but I knew other snipers who did. Mine was on a file card laminated to the stock.
I’m not a sniper. Never wanted to be a sniper. I shoot an M1A with some regularity. I need one of these books. As a side note, by the grace of God, I’m still able to shoot with satisfactory results with no vision correction
Precision optics are wonderful. Thanks for watching!
Creedmoor Sports has several styles of data books.
@@yukon4545 I haven't looked at their site for a while, but I suspect those data books are intended for NRA/CMP match shooting. They aren't quite right for professional purposes.
Thank you for all you do to produce these videos. This one was for me was a need to know as I plan on getting time behind my rifle this year. Over the last five years I have given my pistols more attention. An area of focus from a training point is getting to an outdoor range and shooting targets out at different distances, based on range limits. Part of my plan includes watching videos of subject matter experienced shooters.
This is why I considered this video as a need to know, as I have been looking for a comprehensive DOPE book, or a good setup for pre-made range cards. As you know, there are numerous different discussions on this topic on TH-cam. I have even done some research on apps
that wii guide you through shooting solutions. That in itself is for me confusing. Right now I am looking at Hornady’s 4DOF app and feel this might be a good starting point for a beginner. Have you seen it, and maybe used it?? According to the app it will create DOPE cards, which I think would be beneficial for me.
I say that I like you am not sure there is a comprehensive DOPE book that has the features you mentioned in this video. I am interested in your thoughts. Thank you for any help.
I think part of my problem is I'm an "old Sniper." I learned to use datebooks and extrapolate the data by shooting, recording, and analyzing my shots. Along the way, I sort of developed my own system for documenting my data and creating things like range cards, wind tables, etc. A digital tool such as a phone app would be extremely convenient, but I'm afraid I would almost have to design it myself. I've not seen the Hornady app you mentioned. I'll try to take look at it when I get a chance. Thanks for watching.
@@hrfunk Thank you for your quick response. I think that I am just very excited to start shooting my Savage 308 Win at an outdoor range that I might be driving my self crazy with looking for an easy way to accurately recording what and how well I do. Maybe I need to stop watching all these long range shooting videos. Just kidding as I enjoy the contents. As part of my training / learning experience I will use a good old fashioned note book to record all of the data you discussed to include the environmental elements.
Please continue producing awesome and straight from the hip videos.
@richardoliver1468 Will do. Best of luck to you. Remember, long range precision shooting is all about consistency. Everything from planning your shot, to executing your marksmanship technique, to analyzing your data must be dispassionate and consistent.
I use the impact data book, and absolutely love it. Add pages as you need, reticle hold page….they are great
@@rustybrockway5523 I think the only way I’ll ever have one I really like will be if I design it myself.
@@hrfunk there is that. There is always that one feature you really like on this one, that great idea on that one
Hello HR. Informative video today. As an NRA high power service rifle competitor I found data books a necessary tool. Sniper or precision rifle operator, in the words of the Bard, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." Do you use a small condensed data card mounted on your rifle?
I did for years.
Good informational video. Appreciate your presentation and thinking outside the box for content. I can see professional and semiprofessional shooters and hunters using this, not just "snipers".
I hope it’s helpful. Thanks for watching Ray!
YOUR NUMBER ONE CHIEF!!!
Another informative video Howard!
These rifle data books don't necessarily have to be used by LEO and/or military snipers.
Anyone who considers themselves a precision shooter would benefit from this type of information and to have it as a valuable resource; to include hunters and especially long range hunters.
I was a Ranger platoon sniper back in the 1970s (we were issued M21 rifles with Leatherwood A.R.T. scopes), the technology and resources that are available today would have definitely helped us back then.
Thanks! I have a couple of the newer versions of the ART scope. I enjoy using them. They must have really simplified your life back in the day.
Thanks for this video. It was very educational and informative. I'm just starting to get
Into this approach to shooting for both rifle and pistol. This leads me to this question: can this approach also be applied to pistol shooting as well? Have you taken this approach for your pistol shooting? Or, do you use a different approach for your pistol shooting?
I don’t know of anyone who has used this process with handguns. Typically handgun shooting is a close range undertaking, so there is negligible influence from all the variables that effect long range rifle accuracy.
HR, I meant to ask, does the TO book have the extra refresher back pages like the Storm and VooDoo books have?
The back pages in the TO book have the blank grid squares.
Nice camo job.
Thanks!
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, maybe it's a duck.
Is this the same as Snipe Hunting ?
kind of
I’m not a sniper either but I want to be one 👍💪
Be careful what you wish for Tom.
A 300 yard sniper ha ha ha. This guys a joke. The PD brainwashed him good.
Your comment demonstrates your ignorance regarding law enforcement Snipers.
Euphemisms? No...PC nonsense!
1
Started recording every round in my 6.5prc waypoint and that .308 fn spr…175ish rds in each…like your 700p 168gmm will cut a penny sized hole…it’s a mod70 controled rd feed beefy super wore in feelin action..but bolt wear shows to have not been fired much…my buddie got him a 20” bergara hmr in.308 with $$$ I gave him for it so we both won….🫡
I’ve handled an SPR, but never fired one. Based upon their heritage (Winchester Model 70), I’m sure it’s a great rifle. The Waypoint interests me, but MAN are they pricey. I would like to try one of the .22 versions released earlier this year, but I haven’t run across one yet. Keep an eye on that data book and it will help you in many ways.
@@hrfunk I think I’m gonna get that book you have..love the intricacies of yer call vs poi and all that jazz…those 110s strike 2” high@100 and hit bout center of a 20oz@254yrds. Ol Buddie said it won’t shoot 175s..is that your findings of a 1:12” twist..?
@charlesmullins3238 No. mine shoots 175s quite well. You might just need to find the load your rifle likes.
@@hrfunk oh I have…it shoots wal mart 168s under.5” amd several those 110s grouped .4”..3”..