Watching your videos I am fullfilling my dream of studying Aeronautics and Aerodynamics. Yours are videos mainly about engine structures and their working; you make it all sound so easy and simple; i wish I had a teacher like you when I started studying Aeronautical engineering in Bsc course but I left it cos I was not enjoying it and was unable to understand what was being taught. You would make a great, great teacher, you are a great teacher. Not finishing my engineering course is one of the biggest regrets of my life and watching you work, talk and explain, you are fullfilling my dream of learning about magic of engineering. Thank you so very much. Much love and regards.
It's not so much about the melting temp, but it's more about how much or how little of the material strength is lost at the temperature of the engine combustion gases.
Are you asking, or telling? Yes, all of the things you mention we actually manufacture in-house. And many modern airliners, all subsonic, have ceramic coated combustor liners, nozzles, and the very latest, most sophisticated turbine blade metallurgy. Because the hotter you run your combustor and turbine, the more efficient it is. Like Frank Whittle predicted in the 1930s... we are limited by the properties of the materials we build these engines with.
Never imagined my self to be able to identify a compressor blade by looking at it, but thanks to your video now I can, at least for few hours after watching it and then I'm pretty sure I would forget it..keep up the good work please.
No... the big engines eat over two metric tons of air per second at takeoff power. Any interference with air flow into the intake costs power, fuel, and reliability. How much are you willing to pay?
+triton115 There is no such thing as a turbine fan. You are getting your terminology wrong. Unless you mean turbine engine when you say turbine, in which case you are getting your terminology wrong... again.
The large turbofans already have an intake designed to deflect birds and such outward and into the bypass duct. The solid stuff bypasses the engine. The fan is not happy, but it can handle chunks of things much better than the core. Seagulls and ducks are no problem, but a 30lb bird like a Canada goose is hard to handle, even for a big engine.
I know of no such material, but I don't claim to know everything. I know of platinum aluminide, which is a coating applied to turbine blades to protect them from heat and erosion. But it is a coating. And I doubt if you'll find any on Ebay.
Exactly! Sure, they are big, shiny, aerospace engine parts, and they're made of titanium, so they are so super-cool... but when you get one, what the heck do you do with it?
Intriguingly I have just purchased on EBay a Pegasus HP Compressor Stage 5 Fan Blade removed from a crashed engine and sold as a key ring. Bit of fun and correctly described as titanium. Thank you for this interesting video.
You have shown so much detail, and revealed so many of these parts in your videos... Incredible work! Some of these I could even recognize... mostly the LM1500 parts. Courtesy, again, of your videos.Glad to see you going strong and still enjoying this work! And you made it abundantly clear that turbine blades are never made of titanium! :-P
Because turbine blades are heavier, their mounting is under more stress, and it experiences much higher temperatures. The fir tree mount has been found to be the strongest way to keep the blades in the disk while still allowing for some thermal expansion.
Centrifugal compressors can acheive higher compression per stage, up to 10:1, while a newer axial gets more like (1.2 to 1.5) :1 Centrifugals have not been made to work in aircraft engines with more than 2 stages, and I think they are on the same spool ie, they turn on the same shaft. Axials Can have 15 or more stages on a single shaft, and work well in multi-shaft arrangements where one multi-stage compressor feeds another multi-stage, resulting in a much higher overall CR.
I love these videos! It's odd because i've been researching turbo chargers for a project and currently BorgWarner offers a turbo (EFR) that is built around a mixed flow turbine that is made from Ti...thus making the whole industry weary.. Interesting stuff
If it's a stage 2 compressor blade from a CF6, it's titanium, but remember the similarities and differences between compressor rotor blades and compressor stator vanes... The vanes are sometimes made of stainless steel. The base will have a shaft if it's a stator, because it will be a variable angle design. It is fairly easy to tell the difference just by feel, though. I'll see if I can find that part number.
Hi I'm an engineering student and I watched a lot of your videos and I found them very interesting and useful. I have a question: do you ship scrap compressor/turbine blades for study purposes ? Thank you!
Great knowledge!! Now I know were to go when the next time I have a debate about fan blades with a person that don't know much about blades. I'll play this to them! Thanx for posting this!!
This is only a scratch on the surface, and I suggest you read an introductory book on turbine engines. My favorite is The Jet Engine , published by Rolls Royce. Lots of cool diagrams and cutaways, and it will explain almost everything you want to know.
As a general rule, centrifugals are used in smaller engines, and axials are used in the larger engines, because of their scalability of design to handle huge airflows. Centrifugal compressors are simpler and less expensive to build for a given size, but are heavier. An axial compressor with an inlet of 2 inches would be ridiculously expensive compared to a centrifugal. A centrifugal compressor with an inlet of 30 inches dia. would be much heavier than a comparable axial.
No, that is a turbine rotor from an Allison (now RR) 501. It's the industrial version of the T-56, which powers the C-130. The later stages of turbines deal with gases that have cooled and expanded, and their design somewhat resembles low-pressur compressor blades. Somewhat, because they are made of different materials, and are curved the opposite way. Turbine blades are pushed by a stream of gas. Compressor blades push a stream of gas. Opposite function.
Compressor blades are made of stainless steel in the hottest applications. Inconel is an alloy used for applications where great strength retention at high temp is required. Some modern engines may use similar alloys for the last stages of compression. Inconel is a nickel alloy. Turbine blades are always made of alloys similar to Inconel. It's been around since WW1, and newer, better alloys are always coming out.
Thank you, Sir, for this VERY helpful video for everyone who likes titanium and/or jet engines (that includes me, to my wife's despair !). Besides the shape and color of the blades / vanes, is there a way to identify the alloy the blades are made of (I confess I have bought quite a few on ebay) ? For instance, I assume stainless steel is magnetic while titanium is not, but I am not sure for nickel alloy... As regards the average density, do you have an approximate value for titanium alloys and nickel alloys ? Many thanks for your videos and clear explanations, and best regards from France.
Some research reveals udimet-500 and inconel do have very low % Ti but mostly Ni. The metal cocktail that comprises turbine blades is referred to as a super alloy, very interesting to read up on the single crystal casting and heat treat process.
Hey Jay, thanks for the great insight and education on turbine blades, compressor blades, and stators. I learned alot in this video. That said, I would LOVE to have a defunct turbine assembly complete with blades as an awesome souvenir- say from an engine that was ruined for one reason or another. I'm sure that is a hard thing to find, but I think it would be a great educational tool to teach other people about jet engines.
Interesting stuff, hadn't thought of it before but now I'm interested in one. Thanks for the lesson. One question, what is the purpose of the multi step mounting bit on the turbine blades, as opposed to the single on the compressor blades?
So if it's simply a locking pin that stops the turbine blades from moving backwards (flying out the back of the engine). Is it just the centripetal forces that lock the fir tree in place with friction to prevent this?
Sir,I have learned So much from you.I had basic knowledge of Turbines. However,Thank you for All you do...I hope to Shake your hand someday..... Turbine Hero....
when you talk about the turbine blades these refer to the blades in the back that come in contact with the hot exhaust gas correct? would it be feasible to use titanium for the compressor blades since they don't contact the exhaust gas?
+DronZizzle Yes, you are correct. You are beginning to have a good understanding of how these engines are put together. I invite you to have a look at more of these videos, because I think you might enjoy them.
You're not wrong, but maybe a tad off the mark. I don't have access to the engine's performance data, but I would bet that more than 75% of the Trent 1000 thrust is from the fan. I would bet more than 80.
I've always been fascinated by gas turbine engines. I thought I knew a good deal about them. The more of your videos I watch, the more I realize I never knew Jack- and this is only the hardware. I bet the theory is loaded with gas laws and calculus. Still its all exciting. Thanks for all the education..
Two thirds of the engines power is spent at the turbine... I only know that because you told me that six years ago,WHAT was that compressor blade doing in a trashcan? Do you really throw them away? Could I have one or two or three of them? I know I can't build a very good engine with only three compressor blades but I figure if I start small you know...
I knew they used titanium for some non-engine parts in some supersonic aircraft because titanium is more heat resistant than aluminum. I didn't realize that the environment the turbine blades were too hot for even titanium to handle. Interesting, so thank you.
this student 51 bought from ebay 1 compressor dove tail 5th stage Pegasus blade + service sheet rejected, 1 turbine fir tree 4 stage RR RB-199 from Panavia tornado, I just paid attention. I may not be able to work. but love aviation, the gas-turbine, and how they work, thankyou.
I was blown away to learn that roughly 75% of a trent 1000's thrust is developed by the bypass air rather than combustion gas exiting the tailpipe! correct me if i'm wrong Jay.
Hey Jay. Reading The Jet Engine by Rolls Royce right now thanks to you. It is an EXCELLENT book. It seems to me to be introductory only because I've been watching your channel almost since it started and have learned almost everything in it from you! Do you have any recommendations for an intermediate to upper level book on turbine engines besides trying to get my hands on an actual engine tech. pub. I'm a junior studying mechanical engineering, so the more detailed the better!
On A320's the RAT looks a little like an outboard motor. We have a check where we drop the RAT and put it in a cage and back drive it hydraulically. Makes a heck of a lot of noise. One day one of our cleaners was watching us and asked what the RAT did.My partner, without missing a beat, said " Oh that's in case they have to make a water landing, they drop that and use it to get back to shore." The cleaner said "Boy they sure think of everything don't they!"
I have a question. Why can't the dove tail fitting be used in turbine blades? This channel is excellent for turbine engine buffs who want to learn about jet turbines. Subscribed!
Made me look on eBay just so I can identify them am realise people selling staters as fan blades doh!. feel loads better when I wanna buy some for some history
I was just curious if you knew off hand or not. Back in the 50’s there was a company (latham axial flow supercharger) that used an axial compressor for an engine supercharger. But it used flat blades, so it was terribly inefficient. (outlet temps in the 500-600 range for a boost of only 1.2-1.3 over atmosphere. Because the blades were flying stalled) lots changed since those days. The current company keeps VERY tight lipped over their A/E ratio.
Cool video once again. Question: The melting point of pure titanium is 1668°C (don't know about the alloys used). Melting point of stainless steel around 1500°C. Why is stainless steel suitable for the later stages of the compressor but titanium is not? Also, could the blades in steam turbines be made of titanium?
Oki. What would be interesting in terms of trades? Just to have an idea about something to look for. How is the Orenda 14 comming along? Can't wait to see it on the test stand.
Hiya, Do you have any knowledge o which turbine blades have a platinum coating and which stator rings have a gold weld? I'd be very interested in any literature you could point me to....I work for a company in the UK that chemically strips platinum ROM these blades, but we do find that some blades do not contain a platinum coating. We think it may be down o the engine type and year of manufacture, it we receive tons of mixed scrap blades and are not privy to that information.
ROGER RABBIT The only coating I know of containing platinum is actually platinum aluminide. There is no native platinum used anywhere, as far as i know.Gold welding is something I have never heard of, and does not make sense. Gold is weak, but an excellent heat conductor. Neither of these is useful for a stator. The only gold I know of was used as a reflective outer layer in the heat shield blankets of the RR Avon flight engines. The older Illustrated Parts Catalogs of the RR engines used to ahve a column describing the material each part was made of. More recent manuals don't include this.
I'll look up the RR Catalogue, thanks - I can assure you there is definitely platinum on some turbine blades as that is exactly what we recover chemically, once the blades have been shot blasted to remove the TBC and expose the platinum coating. True it may well be a platinum aluminide but the aluminide will be dissolved whilst dissolving the platinum via hot/cold aqua regia treatment. The platinum is then precipitated from solution. The aurobraze is interesting, because RR describe the rings we receive as stotor rings and it is the gold braze (weld) which we recover for them... basically the rest of the stotor ring is dissolved in sulphuric acid which then leaves the gold behind - this is then dissolved in aqua regia and precipitated out as 98% pure gold. Final chemical purifying achieves 99.9% purity. The problem we have is identifying which blades contain the platinum coating because not all do - we have to check each one with a Niton gun... that's why I'm after some literature about turbine engines because we do know it depends on the engine and the year of manufacture ;)
+Binayak Raj That's really a theoretical question that doesn't need to be answered, because neither one of those two things exist in real life. All aerospace or aeroderivative turbine blades you will ever encounter will be a combination of both.
I was hoping you could help me with a question I have. I recently purchased a set of 5 new Rolls Royce turbine blades (Part #AX73185) off ebay. I have no use for them but I think they make a nice souvenir. I was wondering if you could tell me what model of aircraft engine they are from? Many thanks
I would just Google the number. Your next long shot is to send me several frame-filling, high res close up pictures, and I'll try to identify them for you. Include the part number, and some really good shots from several angles. Dimensions are helpful... pics with a ruler next to the blade. Pin-sharp and well lit. Blurry, low res shots don't make it past initial image processing, so I won't even know we got them.
OK will do. Google didn't come up with anything and the seller has no idea. How should I send them to you? You said you have disabled personal messages on You tube.
So, AgentJayZ, have you ever encountered any ceramic, ceramic-coated, or "single-crystal" nickel turbine blades? Just wondering, because I've heard those materials mentioned as good turbine blade material for turbines that have very high turbine-inlet temperatures. Usually for turbines designed for aircraft operating at Mach 2.5 and higher, things like the SR-71, the MiG-25 "foxbat", and the MiG-31 "foxhound" for example. any air intake operating at mach 2.5ish heats the air quite a bit!
This may be too much of an engineering question, but kinds of adiabatic efficiency do axial compressors achieve? With centrifugal compressors (IE turbos) we see A/F ratings of mid 70’s or so. (depending on pressure ratio and flow) But I’ve never seen a compressor map for an axial compressor. So I don’t really know how efficient they are. My gut thinks they’re not very efficient due to all of the surface area of the turbine and stator blades. I could be wrong though.
Hello again Jay yet another very interesting vid thats answered a lot of things i didnt know about fan & turbine blades, i have a lot of different blades myself but dont know which engines or stages they came from?, where could i check out the part numbers to see what & where they came from......i eagerly await your reply and keep up the good work.
good video Jay! When i started to buy jet engine blades on ebay years ago i found tons of ambiguous or wrong descriptions,not that things are better now,especially from sellers around Israel and someone from UK. By the way,on ebay i found a brand new,LP compressor rotors assembly for the RR Spey 250/251,from UK. I'll send you the link if you want :-)
Most ram air turbines (RAT's) I've seen, even though technically 'turbines', in reality look more like small windmilling constant speed propellers. As they don't rotate all that fast, and are always cool, they're mostly aluminum like conventional props. See both TH-cam and Wikipedia for more. I actually once saw an aircraft with the rat deployed on short final to LAX RWY 24R. Probably not a big deal, as they're sometimes deployed on test flights. I remember you could hear it...
Went on ebay to have a look after watching this and found one that looks different to everything you showed. It's a blade out of a GE CF700; fir tree base, shrouded tip, but then there's more blade on the other side of the shroud. Why is it there and what does it do?
Elan Jacobs The CF700 is a turbofan engine and the blade your refering to is probably part of the fan. Look at: vertassets.blob.core.windows.net/image/87b30864/87b30864-e268-11d4-a76f-00d0b7694f32/cf700.gif and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_CF700
Roald van Dijken Yeah, in one of the 'Q' videos Jay talks about rear-mounted turbofans where the fan blade is just an extension of the turbine blade. I just hadn't gotten to that video when I asked the question.
GE-nx has titanium aluminide stage 6 and 7 (last stages) low pressure turbine blades, which is not pure titanium, but chemical compound (not alloy). There has been some technology on PW1000G engines family also employing titanium aluminide for blades. These are state-of-the-art technologies. Nevertheless, you are absolutly right, typically turbine blades are not titanium, but nickel-chromium alloy.
1.3 bar is pathetic. Modern turbofan cores have CRs of over 40 to 1. Yes, 600 psi CDP. Gas turbine engines make tens of thousands of Hp, using the air they consume to transmit that power. More air is better, and their compressors are as efficient as they can be made to be. The turbo-supercharger is a device to augment the air consumption of a piston engine. There would be no need to feed 600psi boost to a piston slapper, would there ?
Hi man! What's the best way to polish up a titanium blade? I have picked up an RB199 fan blade and would like smart it up! I have most of the equipment I need I think, I'm only use to stainless blades! Thanks!
The performance in a turbofan is it's exposure to the slip stream, clean undisturbed air produces better engine performance. Question: Is it that there have been more bird strike events, or is it more likely that slownewsday ends up with more reports of bird strike events? My bet is the latter.
As a long-time eBayer (about 10 years), you are doing a great service here! Most sellers are honest & some are crooks, but 'buyer beware' always applies. Education is a buyer's best defense. So, what do you consider "cool stuff" as trade for blades & stators? How about contact info for you? Appreciate all of your time to produce these vids & to answer questions. Take Care... Darren
Hey Jay, thanks for the response. I'm sorry, I realised my last comment made it sound like I was asking you for a turbine assemby. That wasn't my intention. I didn't mean to imply that you were supposed to give me the parts, just that one day, I hope to be lucky enough to find something along those lines, as I've loved jet engines since I was a little kid. Thanks for all the great videos, I've really enjoyed them. I hope to one day be able to afford a small model engine.
Jay. If one would like to buy a 1 stage compressor blade from a Spey and an copressor outlet guide vane from an LM2500, could you guys help? They have a nice look and are one of those fun things you can bring out at a party and say "Hey, guess what this is?"
actually, sir, low-pressure cylinders of steam power turbine have titanium-alloy blades (last stages of turbine). Those blades are kinda giant, like 1.2 meters long
I know nothing of steam turbines. This video has nothing to do with steam turbines. If I didn't use the term "combustion turbine", then I apologize. Thanks for the correction.
So... I can just about make enough heat to melt cast iron in my foundry. Around 1800F... Does this mean I could possibly melt and cast titanium? Not like I'm going to try, but not like I'm going to ignore the possibility altogether!
heliarche The entire process needs to be carried out in an inert, oxygen free environment. Titanium oxidizes rapidly at elevated temps. So much so that it catches fire before it melts.
+Nick Dunn Magnesium is often melted under a cover of other metals in s cavity in the bottom of the cruisible so the magnesium metal is fully protected from oxygen during the process when producing some magnesium alloys.
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Watching your videos I am fullfilling my dream of studying Aeronautics and Aerodynamics. Yours are videos mainly about engine structures and their working; you make it all sound so easy and simple; i wish I had a teacher like you when I started studying Aeronautical engineering in Bsc course but I left it cos I was not enjoying it and was unable to understand what was being taught. You would make a great, great teacher, you are a great teacher. Not finishing my engineering course is one of the biggest regrets of my life and watching you work, talk and explain, you are fullfilling my dream of learning about magic of engineering. Thank you so very much. Much love and regards.
You are an Inspiration. Your presence is a gift to the world, you're unique and one of a kind. Please keep up the good work. Thank you :)
That would be impossible
"It would have titanium turbine blades; if they were titanium."
I laughed so hard at this. I get the point, just the wording was so hilarious. :-D
It's not so much about the melting temp, but it's more about how much or how little of the material strength is lost at the temperature of the engine combustion gases.
Are you asking, or telling?
Yes, all of the things you mention we actually manufacture in-house.
And many modern airliners, all subsonic, have ceramic coated combustor liners, nozzles, and the very latest, most sophisticated turbine blade metallurgy.
Because the hotter you run your combustor and turbine, the more efficient it is.
Like Frank Whittle predicted in the 1930s... we are limited by the properties of the materials we build these engines with.
This man know his shit
Oh, I knew I was opening a can of worms... and going out on a limb with this rant... but I just couldn't take it anymore !
You Sir are a star! I find all the videos you put together totally facinating and educational.
Thanks SO much! Cheers!
Never imagined my self to be able to identify a compressor blade by looking at it, but thanks to your video now I can, at least for few hours after watching it and then I'm pretty sure I would forget it..keep up the good work please.
No... the big engines eat over two metric tons of air per second at takeoff power.
Any interference with air flow into the intake costs power, fuel, and reliability.
How much are you willing to pay?
I have actually seen entire turbine fan disk assemblies on Ebay before. They would make really cool looking garden windmills!
+triton115 There is no such thing as a turbine fan. You are getting your terminology wrong. Unless you mean turbine engine when you say turbine, in which case you are getting your terminology wrong... again.
Well what I meant was that I have seen entire disks with all of the blades attached to it for sale on Ebay.
The large turbofans already have an intake designed to deflect birds and such outward and into the bypass duct. The solid stuff bypasses the engine. The fan is not happy, but it can handle chunks of things much better than the core.
Seagulls and ducks are no problem, but a 30lb bird like a Canada goose is hard to handle, even for a big engine.
I know of no such material, but I don't claim to know everything.
I know of platinum aluminide, which is a coating applied to turbine blades to protect them from heat and erosion.
But it is a coating. And I doubt if you'll find any on Ebay.
I want one that has platinum in it. Where can I buy one?
Exactly! Sure, they are big, shiny, aerospace engine parts, and they're made of titanium, so they are so super-cool... but when you get one, what the heck do you do with it?
Intriguingly I have just purchased on EBay a Pegasus HP Compressor Stage 5 Fan Blade removed from a crashed engine and sold as a key ring. Bit of fun and correctly described as titanium. Thank you for this interesting video.
You have shown so much detail, and revealed so many of these parts in your videos... Incredible work!
Some of these I could even recognize... mostly the LM1500 parts. Courtesy, again, of your videos.Glad to see you going strong and still enjoying this work!
And you made it abundantly clear that turbine blades are never made of titanium! :-P
Because turbine blades are heavier, their mounting is under more stress, and it experiences much higher temperatures. The fir tree mount has been found to be the strongest way to keep the blades in the disk while still allowing for some thermal expansion.
Centrifugal compressors can acheive higher compression per stage, up to 10:1, while a newer axial gets more like (1.2 to 1.5) :1
Centrifugals have not been made to work in aircraft engines with more than 2 stages, and I think they are on the same spool ie, they turn on the same shaft.
Axials Can have 15 or more stages on a single shaft, and work well in multi-shaft arrangements where one multi-stage compressor feeds another multi-stage, resulting in a much higher overall CR.
I love these videos! It's odd because i've been researching turbo chargers for a project and currently BorgWarner offers a turbo (EFR) that is built around a mixed flow turbine that is made from Ti...thus making the whole industry weary.. Interesting stuff
If it's a stage 2 compressor blade from a CF6, it's titanium, but remember the similarities and differences between compressor rotor blades and compressor stator vanes... The vanes are sometimes made of stainless steel.
The base will have a shaft if it's a stator, because it will be a variable angle design.
It is fairly easy to tell the difference just by feel, though.
I'll see if I can find that part number.
Hi I'm an engineering student and I watched a lot of your videos and I found them very interesting and useful. I have a question: do you ship scrap compressor/turbine blades for study purposes ? Thank you!
Great knowledge!! Now I know were to go when the next time I have a debate about fan blades with a person that don't know much about blades. I'll play this to them! Thanx for posting this!!
"Lots of shiiishhhhhstuff here..."
lol
+1
This is only a scratch on the surface, and I suggest you read an introductory book on turbine engines.
My favorite is The Jet Engine , published by Rolls Royce.
Lots of cool diagrams and cutaways, and it will explain almost everything you want to know.
As a general rule, centrifugals are used in smaller engines, and axials are used in the larger engines, because of their scalability of design to handle huge airflows.
Centrifugal compressors are simpler and less expensive to build for a given size, but are heavier.
An axial compressor with an inlet of 2 inches would be ridiculously expensive compared to a centrifugal.
A centrifugal compressor with an inlet of 30 inches dia. would be much heavier than a comparable axial.
No, that is a turbine rotor from an Allison (now RR) 501. It's the industrial version of the T-56, which powers the C-130.
The later stages of turbines deal with gases that have cooled and expanded, and their design somewhat resembles low-pressur compressor blades.
Somewhat, because they are made of different materials, and are curved the opposite way.
Turbine blades are pushed by a stream of gas.
Compressor blades push a stream of gas.
Opposite function.
AgentJayZ has studied the blade.
Thanks for the good info. I really like this kind of video you gave for us Thanks again. Best wishes from South Korea
Compressor blades are made of stainless steel in the hottest applications. Inconel is an alloy used for applications where great strength retention at high temp is required.
Some modern engines may use similar alloys for the last stages of compression.
Inconel is a nickel alloy.
Turbine blades are always made of alloys similar to Inconel. It's been around since WW1, and newer, better alloys are always coming out.
Thank you, Sir, for this VERY helpful video for everyone who likes titanium and/or jet engines (that includes me, to my wife's despair !).
Besides the shape and color of the blades / vanes, is there a way to identify the alloy the blades are made of (I confess I have bought quite a few on ebay) ? For instance, I assume stainless steel is magnetic while titanium is not, but I am not sure for nickel alloy...
As regards the average density, do you have an approximate value for titanium alloys and nickel alloys ?
Many thanks for your videos and clear explanations, and best regards from France.
Some research reveals udimet-500 and inconel do have very low % Ti but mostly Ni. The metal cocktail that comprises turbine blades is referred to as a super alloy, very interesting to read up on the single crystal casting and heat treat process.
Ahhh, you trolled me! Turbine blades are not heat treated. Other than every single cycle! Fast heat soak and then slow air cool... annealed, right?
AgentJayZ what is trolled? My internet culture is not up to scratch☺️
Hey Jay, thanks for the great insight and education on turbine blades, compressor blades, and stators. I learned alot in this video. That said, I would LOVE to have a defunct turbine assembly complete with blades as an awesome souvenir- say from an engine that was ruined for one reason or another. I'm sure that is a hard thing to find, but I think it would be a great educational tool to teach other people about jet engines.
Steam turbine blades used in powerplants could be Ti. Very informative and helpful video.
which material are those high temperature blade manufactured from? Inconel, niconel or nimel?
Interesting stuff, hadn't thought of it before but now I'm interested in one.
Thanks for the lesson.
One question, what is the purpose of the multi step mounting bit on the turbine blades, as opposed to the single on the compressor blades?
So if it's simply a locking pin that stops the turbine blades from moving backwards (flying out the back of the engine). Is it just the centripetal forces that lock the fir tree in place with friction to prevent this?
yes. Exactly.
Very cool.
Sir,I have learned So much from you.I had basic knowledge of Turbines. However,Thank you for All you do...I hope to Shake your hand someday..... Turbine Hero....
when you talk about the turbine blades these refer to the blades in the back that come in contact with the hot exhaust gas correct?
would it be feasible to use titanium for the compressor blades since they don't contact the exhaust gas?
+DronZizzle Yes, you are correct. You are beginning to have a good understanding of how these engines are put together. I invite you to have a look at more of these videos, because I think you might enjoy them.
You're not wrong, but maybe a tad off the mark. I don't have access to the engine's performance data, but I would bet that more than 75% of the Trent 1000 thrust is from the fan. I would bet more than 80.
I've always been fascinated by gas turbine engines. I thought I knew a good deal about them. The more of your videos I watch, the more I realize I never knew Jack- and this is only the hardware. I bet the theory is loaded with gas laws and calculus. Still its all exciting. Thanks for all the education..
They are that big, and you really can have it, if you want. The smaller ones are harder to get for nothing, but I'm sure they are out there.
Cheers!
Thankyou for a very informative items that makes a modern jet engine work 👍
Two thirds of the engines power is spent at the turbine...
I only know that because you told me that six years ago,WHAT was that compressor blade doing in a trashcan?
Do you really throw them away? Could I have one or two or three of them? I know I can't build a very good engine with only three compressor blades but I figure if I start small you know...
Interesting and informative as usual . Thank you for posting .
Jay, How often do you need a new 4L80? Most people don't keep spares.Towing too many turbine parts home ? Haha. Maybe time for an Allison. Bob.
I remember machining high nickel alloys, like hastelloy, and I think aermet and vascomax350. It made me want to take early retirement.
I knew they used titanium for some non-engine parts in some supersonic aircraft because titanium is more heat resistant than aluminum. I didn't realize that the environment the turbine blades were too hot for even titanium to handle. Interesting, so thank you.
this student 51 bought from ebay
1 compressor dove tail 5th stage Pegasus blade + service sheet rejected,
1 turbine fir tree 4 stage RR RB-199 from Panavia tornado,
I just paid attention.
I may not be able to work.
but love aviation, the gas-turbine, and how they work, thankyou.
I was blown away to learn that roughly 75% of a trent 1000's thrust is developed by the bypass air rather than combustion gas exiting the tailpipe! correct me if i'm wrong Jay.
... I'd like to change my response to " thank you, but the majority of viewers of my videos would not share your evaluation."
Hey Jay. Reading The Jet Engine by Rolls Royce right now thanks to you. It is an EXCELLENT book. It seems to me to be introductory only because I've been watching your channel almost since it started and have learned almost everything in it from you! Do you have any recommendations for an intermediate to upper level book on turbine engines besides trying to get my hands on an actual engine tech. pub. I'm a junior studying mechanical engineering, so the more detailed the better!
The Core behind you next to the fork lift is that a 80A or a 80C2?
Thank you for opening my mind I was always thinking turbine blades are made of Titanium..
On A320's the RAT looks a little like an outboard motor. We have a check where we drop the RAT and put it in a cage and back drive it hydraulically. Makes a heck of a lot of noise. One day one of our cleaners was watching us and asked what the RAT did.My partner, without missing a beat, said " Oh that's in case they have to make a water landing, they drop that and use it to get back to shore." The cleaner said "Boy they sure think of everything don't they!"
I have a question. Why can't the dove tail fitting be used in turbine blades?
This channel is excellent for turbine engine buffs who want to learn about jet turbines. Subscribed!
Made me look on eBay just so I can identify them am realise people selling staters as fan blades doh!. feel loads better when I wanna buy some for some history
I was just curious if you knew off hand or not. Back in the 50’s there was a company (latham axial flow supercharger) that used an axial compressor for an engine supercharger. But it used flat blades, so it was terribly inefficient. (outlet temps in the 500-600 range for a boost of only 1.2-1.3 over atmosphere. Because the blades were flying stalled) lots changed since those days. The current company keeps VERY tight lipped over their A/E ratio.
Awesome video! I wish I had one of those fan blades for a souvenir! Lol
Cool video once again. Question: The melting point of pure titanium is 1668°C (don't know about the alloys used). Melting point of stainless steel around 1500°C. Why is stainless steel suitable for the later stages of the compressor but titanium is not? Also, could the blades in steam turbines be made of titanium?
so you have your fan blade(giant) then turbine blades and stators alternating then a gap and then compressor blades right?
+logan m I don't know what part of the vid you are referring to, but I do identify each one to help you recognize what you might see in an Ebay ad.
Oki. What would be interesting in terms of trades? Just to have an idea about something to look for.
How is the Orenda 14 comming along? Can't wait to see it on the test stand.
Hiya,
Do you have any knowledge o which turbine blades have a platinum coating and which stator rings have a gold weld?
I'd be very interested in any literature you could point me to....I work for a company in the UK that chemically strips platinum ROM these blades, but we do find that some blades do not contain a platinum coating. We think it may be down o the engine type and year of manufacture, it we receive tons of mixed scrap blades and are not privy to that information.
ROGER RABBIT The only coating I know of containing platinum is actually platinum aluminide. There is no native platinum used anywhere, as far as i know.Gold welding is something I have never heard of, and does not make sense. Gold is weak, but an excellent heat conductor. Neither of these is useful for a stator.
The only gold I know of was used as a reflective outer layer in the heat shield blankets of the RR Avon flight engines.
The older Illustrated Parts Catalogs of the RR engines used to ahve a column describing the material each part was made of. More recent manuals don't include this.
I'll look up the RR Catalogue, thanks - I can assure you there is definitely platinum on some turbine blades as that is exactly what we recover chemically, once the blades have been shot blasted to remove the TBC and expose the platinum coating. True it may well be a platinum aluminide but the aluminide will be dissolved whilst dissolving the platinum via hot/cold aqua regia treatment. The platinum is then precipitated from solution.
The aurobraze is interesting, because RR describe the rings we receive as stotor rings and it is the gold braze (weld) which we recover for them... basically the rest of the stotor ring is dissolved in sulphuric acid which then leaves the gold behind - this is then dissolved in aqua regia and precipitated out as 98% pure gold. Final chemical purifying achieves 99.9% purity.
The problem we have is identifying which blades contain the platinum coating because not all do - we have to check each one with a Niton gun... that's why I'm after some literature about turbine engines because we do know it depends on the engine and the year of manufacture ;)
Thanks for the info. How do you differentiate between an impulse turbine and a reaction turbine?
+Binayak Raj That's really a theoretical question that doesn't need to be answered, because neither one of those two things exist in real life.
All aerospace or aeroderivative turbine blades you will ever encounter will be a combination of both.
Yes, when we can create a compression ratio of 1500 : 1, we'll be in the liquid ballpark...
Hi jay. What model is that Kawi sport bike? Yours? Bob
It's an early ZX9 with a Wiseco 949 kit in it. No TC, no ABS, no throttle by wire... It's a very different experience from modern bikes.
OK looks like a fun old school bike. Do the Wiseco pistons last ok these days? At one time they were a bit marginal i think.
I was hoping you could help me with a question I have. I recently purchased a set of 5 new Rolls Royce turbine blades (Part #AX73185) off ebay. I have no use for them but I think they make a nice souvenir. I was wondering if you could tell me what model of aircraft engine they are from?
Many thanks
I would just Google the number. Your next long shot is to send me several frame-filling, high res close up pictures, and I'll try to identify them for you.
Include the part number, and some really good shots from several angles.
Dimensions are helpful... pics with a ruler next to the blade.
Pin-sharp and well lit.
Blurry, low res shots don't make it past initial image processing, so I won't even know we got them.
OK will do. Google didn't come up with anything and the seller has no idea. How should I send them to you? You said you have disabled personal messages on You tube.
I have not disabled personal messages.
One way would be for you to post a video of your close up examination of the blades...
Inconel is used in turbine blades. Amirite?
Q :Do compressor blades and turbine blades always have dove tail and fir tree mountings respectively?? what is the reason behind that?
So, AgentJayZ, have you ever encountered any ceramic, ceramic-coated, or "single-crystal" nickel turbine blades? Just wondering, because I've heard those materials mentioned as good turbine blade material for turbines that have very high turbine-inlet temperatures. Usually for turbines designed for aircraft operating at Mach 2.5 and higher, things like the SR-71, the MiG-25 "foxbat", and the MiG-31 "foxhound" for example. any air intake operating at mach 2.5ish heats the air quite a bit!
"Lots of shsssstuff here" Gotta admit I cackled. Subscribed.
This may be too much of an engineering question, but kinds of adiabatic efficiency do axial compressors achieve? With centrifugal compressors (IE turbos) we see A/F ratings of mid 70’s or so. (depending on pressure ratio and flow) But I’ve never seen a compressor map for an axial compressor. So I don’t really know how efficient they are. My gut thinks they’re not very efficient due to all of the surface area of the turbine and stator blades. I could be wrong though.
Hello again Jay yet another very interesting vid thats answered a lot of things i didnt know about fan & turbine blades, i have a lot of different blades myself but dont know which engines or stages they came from?, where could i check out the part numbers to see what & where they came from......i eagerly await your reply and keep up the good work.
good video Jay! When i started to buy jet engine blades on ebay years ago i found tons of ambiguous or wrong descriptions,not that things are better now,especially from sellers around Israel and someone from UK.
By the way,on ebay i found a brand new,LP compressor rotors assembly for the RR Spey 250/251,from UK. I'll send you the link if you want :-)
Most ram air turbines (RAT's) I've seen, even though technically 'turbines', in reality look more like small windmilling constant speed propellers.
As they don't rotate all that fast, and are always cool, they're mostly aluminum like conventional props.
See both TH-cam and Wikipedia for more.
I actually once saw an aircraft with the rat deployed on short final to LAX RWY 24R. Probably not a big deal, as they're sometimes deployed on test flights. I remember you could hear it...
Enya in the background...nice. Thanks for the information.
Charles
Hi Jay. If compressor blade joint is referred as a 'dovetail', what's the turbine blade joint called?
General Electric uses gamma TiAl for the low-pressure turbine blades on its GEnx engine, which powers the Boeing 787 and Boeing 747-8 aircraft.
That's a titanium aluminide, which isn't the same as "metallic" titanium. You can find more searching the term.
Went on ebay to have a look after watching this and found one that looks different to everything you showed. It's a blade out of a GE CF700; fir tree base, shrouded tip, but then there's more blade on the other side of the shroud. Why is it there and what does it do?
Elan Jacobs The CF700 is a turbofan engine and the blade your refering to is probably part of the fan.
Look at: vertassets.blob.core.windows.net/image/87b30864/87b30864-e268-11d4-a76f-00d0b7694f32/cf700.gif and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_CF700
Roald van Dijken Yeah, in one of the 'Q' videos Jay talks about rear-mounted turbofans where the fan blade is just an extension of the turbine blade. I just hadn't gotten to that video when I asked the question.
GE-nx has titanium aluminide stage 6 and 7 (last stages) low pressure turbine blades, which is not pure titanium, but chemical compound (not alloy). There has been some technology on PW1000G engines family also employing titanium aluminide for blades. These are state-of-the-art technologies. Nevertheless, you are absolutly right, typically turbine blades are not titanium, but nickel-chromium alloy.
It's a competition-only machine built from an 09 EX.
at 4:57, are you not showing a compressor rotor? I mean, the 2 unshrouded ones?
1.3 bar is pathetic. Modern turbofan cores have CRs of over 40 to 1. Yes, 600 psi CDP.
Gas turbine engines make tens of thousands of Hp, using the air they consume to transmit that power. More air is better, and their compressors are as efficient as they can be made to be.
The turbo-supercharger is a device to augment the air consumption of a piston engine.
There would be no need to feed 600psi boost to a piston slapper, would there ?
Hi man! What's the best way to polish up a titanium blade? I have picked up an RB199 fan blade and would like smart it up! I have most of the equipment I need I think, I'm only use to stainless blades! Thanks!
The performance in a turbofan is it's exposure to the slip stream, clean undisturbed air produces better engine performance. Question: Is it that there have been more bird strike events, or is it more likely that slownewsday ends up with more reports of bird strike events? My bet is the latter.
That would be a very interesting sight !
Also, at a certain temperature, well below melting, titanium will react to air and spontaniously combust
More...
Small RATS are very common on crop dusting aircraft... used to drive the pesticide pump.
As a long-time eBayer (about 10 years), you are doing a great service here! Most sellers are honest & some are crooks, but 'buyer beware' always applies. Education is a buyer's best defense.
So, what do you consider "cool stuff" as trade for blades & stators? How about contact info for you? Appreciate all of your time to produce these vids & to answer questions. Take Care...
Darren
No sales. Trades. Cool stuff.
Identifying an unknown blade is best started with a detailed, clear, close-up picture (s)
Hey Jay, thanks for the response. I'm sorry, I realised my last comment made it sound like I was asking you for a turbine assemby. That wasn't my intention. I didn't mean to imply that you were supposed to give me the parts, just that one day, I hope to be lucky enough to find something along those lines, as I've loved jet engines since I was a little kid. Thanks for all the great videos, I've really enjoyed them. I hope to one day be able to afford a small model engine.
5 dislikes from ebay scammers.
Keep up the good work Jay!
The newer airliner engines have compression ratios of around 40:1
Nice Kwaker, zx6 or zx10?
Jay. If one would like to buy a 1 stage compressor blade from a Spey and an copressor outlet guide vane from an LM2500, could you guys help? They have a nice look and are one of those fun things you can bring out at a party and say "Hey, guess what this is?"
actually, sir, low-pressure cylinders of steam power turbine have titanium-alloy blades (last stages of turbine). Those blades are kinda giant, like 1.2 meters long
I know nothing of steam turbines. This video has nothing to do with steam turbines.
If I didn't use the term "combustion turbine", then I apologize.
Thanks for the correction.
So... I can just about make enough heat to melt cast iron in my foundry. Around 1800F... Does this mean I could possibly melt and cast titanium? Not like I'm going to try, but not like I'm going to ignore the possibility altogether!
heliarche The entire process needs to be carried out in an inert, oxygen free environment. Titanium oxidizes rapidly at elevated temps. So much so that it catches fire before it melts.
AgentJayZ Oh well... I bet the fire is pretty wicked though!
+heliarche Yea it is, it looks a bit like magnesium burning.
+Nick Dunn
Magnesium is often melted under a cover of other metals in s cavity in the bottom of the cruisible so the magnesium metal is fully protected from oxygen during the process when producing some magnesium alloys.
Sheep_Ewe Thats pretty interesting, I guess I learned something new today.
Scored 100% on the pop-quiz... guess someone was paying attention!
-Nice stuff, Teach'
That's my spare 4L-80E... waiting for its turn...