Could A 250cc Harley Davidson Motorcycle For Asia Save Them?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
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They need a 250-300cc V-TWIN, with Harley's iconic exhaust note, chrome, & fat boy styling.
+ affordability according to Asian market (per capita income). They can implement KTM's pricing & production strategy.
Alot of manufactures could learn a thing or two about making smaller cc machines. Not race reps or big bike wannabes. But good usable small cc machines. Not everyone has the money for the big toys, small bikes are a lot of fun.
Absolutely, I ❤ my 2014 Honda CB500X. I think the Street 500 and 750 are jokes though, Honda would do better bringing back a Shadow 500 or 750. Plus, have you seen the TVS Zeppelin? Cool bike!
Chris chomley smyth back in the 60s, our little group had M-50 Harleys, 3 speed twist grip shift, single 2strokes, and sometimes had to go to low gear on back road hills in Pennsylvania and had a blast! Then twin jet 100 Yamaha, 250 Sprints(Harley) 350 Honda/Yamaha and the absolute rocket sled 500Kawasaki 2 stroke triple were the next rides on the way up. Now the survivors ride big Harleys or Goldwings, but the third world will likely never mirror our market model of moving up and up and up, food and housing will strip nearly all workers supporting families of all expendable funds, we've seen the internet pics of a family of 5 or 6 plus baskets and critters on the moped scooters because that was all they had. Harley Davidson would probably be better off shrinking operations, chopping the dead wood out of marketing and management, advertise tastefully to the younger affluent citizens over here, and try to get the cost of production down by centralizing either in York or Kansas City to eliminate so much transportation involving manufacturing. Ford Motor Company got involved around 2001-2003 and really screwed the pooch encouraging them to follow their method of operations of build all you can build and worry about selling them later, look how well that worked for Ford. I already have a RoadKing, I'll likely never wear it out, and really don't care what they do, but stupid moves are hard to watch on the sidelines when they have such an unmatched product and command of the market.
I have a M109R, and it gets 34 mpg,so I'm planning on getting a 250 Yamaha that gets 78 mpg.
A 250cc single will cause irreparable damage to the brand. HD should definitely spin off a separate brand (like they did with Buell) specifically for low capacity singles. But that’s just my opinion.
Yes, if anybody can get a Harley, nobody will want a Harley.
killerdove I agree 👍🏻
Agreed
They had the Rapido Italian bike in the 60s,...junk.
Two cylinders 250cc and 400cc
Yes, do small 250 engines, but make the look different, like a retro style scrambler... Or a cafe racer, something young.
I think 250CC street will do good in India but of course with the look as they have on the 750CC.
This could save Harley given the fact that the Asian market is so huge. The big question is whether they will be able to compete on price. They would have to manufacture them over there.
Agree. .... it will save surely
I hope the best for Harley but it's always been difficult for companies that lean more to a premium catalogue to make "entry level" products. It always seems to be difficult for manufacturers in this situation to balance quality and price.
I guess that's why they'll get someone else to make it and just put their badge on it. I've read that Norton are working on something similar for Asia too. Just seems to be the way of the world now - to make the most of the brand
Kevin Liverpool here in the US, we want smaller bikes, better fuel economy, and better customer service from dealers. In the US the current customer for HD is getting older or dying. Its a shrinking market. They are to expensive for what they are. Honda and Yamaha provide a better overall driving experience. I would even love a HD moped like the Vespa.
@@bngr_bngr You preaching to the choir bro. I'm in the States as well. I feel HD money is better spent appealing to a younger audience at home than trying to get a stake in a market that doesn't view cycles in the way HD view them.
Ppl today just don't have the brand loyalty as our previous gen. Like you said ppl shop elsewhere bcuz they get more bike for the money. I'm glad HD is trying something new but they shoot themselves in the foot making their own attempts moot even here at home.
Livewire: 29k
Zero RS/F : 20K
Kevin Liverpool my work use to have a HD club chapter but started to lose riders 15 years ago. We gave up with HD 10 years ago. During those last five years we kept the club alive by accepting riders from other manufactures.
@@motobob it's a careful balance when you risk putting your name on an unsuccessful product, especially if you give up control of production. Hopefully, HD doesn't ruin its reputation by letting a "cheap" bike into the wild, only to be unreliable.
Let's say around 400cc with V or parallel twin engine with around 40 to 45bhp, priced btw 3 to 4 lakhs will help harley in India 🇮🇳 and other Asian countries
Exactly.. If it becomes cheaper than 3 lakh Everyone wld own a harley and harley would lose its reputation.
Yeah I thought of the same. 350-450 cc with the legendary sound n performance wil surely b a mass appeal
@AK 23 Exactly... In india people wouldnt respect the brand name once it becomes too cheap.. People buy expensive things like Apple peoducts to show off.. They'll move on to other expensive brands once the harley gets cheap.
Harley Davidson is a company that builds two wheeled Bentleys and Mustangs. But then puts a air cooled tractor engine in them.
I like this comment ha ha ha lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣
We love the Harley engine though 🤝✔
lusted after a HD Fat boy since I saw first them... I bought one and thought... if I had wanted a vehicle to also plow fields and carry a 350lb bag of feed it would be perfect.
They forgot to mention it was basically a 2 wheel tractor in the ads. :/
in india they have the bajaj dominar a 400 cc single cylinder bike that is hard to beat , beautiful bike , harley would be better off sticking aith the v twin configuration so that that style of cruiser is within reach of a huge section of asian population that currently cant afford a harley.
More than D400 Royal Enfield 650 are really drilling holes in the asses of these high priced useless pleasure machines...hence Trump is after us..
@@biswanathmohapatra1836 look what he did to Huawei, by far the best phone and tablets ive ever owned. China and india should ban american goods
Indian's are good at Mathematics they always care 3 things
1. How much cheaper it is ?
2. It's a good quality product or not ?
3. How much millage it will give ?
No wonder American companies failing in India while Indian companies like Tata, Mahendra, Royal Enfield are conquering world business market because they know how to attract majority of poor and middle class rather than targeting few billionaire's.
250cc with 2cylinder should be awesome!
Harley had smaller bikes marketed as HD Aermacchi, I know, I had a full race 350 Ala D’Oro model.
I want one......as soon as it comes
I bet it will be pre booked for 2 years before delivery.....
That is the craze for HD in the Indian market....❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
250 cc or 300 cc Harley is something we need in India because, the fuel price in India is very high.
Not a bad idea to capture Indian/Asian Market but 300 - 500 cc would be an ideal range for the HD brand. Its the puri - konark marine drive road, if am not wrong.
I think they should do a version that rivals the Royal Enfield. A light frame small engine at a lower price point and sell a million of them. The Asia market is loaded with scooters so a small motorcycle would be the next step up. Build it to last and easy to work on.
I would like to see H-D come out with something like the Royal Enfield Himalayan 410 cc ADV bike for both the U.S. and Asian markets.
Yup 250cc we would buy them fr delivery job
I would buy a version of the 750cc street in a 3" taller seat height..like a touring standard style with accessories like detachable hard bags and half fairing.
Very thoughtful and I’m enjoying your channel as your developing the output. I don’t see how Harley (or anyone else) can put 100 new models into the marketplace in such a short period of time - sounds like publicity! Royal Enfield could do with a competitor in the near and Far East but whether Harley can do that by joining commercial and manufacturing forces with an existing, say Indian, manufacturer is something to look out for. Again, thanks for raising this. Yours aye, Alan
Given that development costs are huge, HD must have an enormous wad of spare cash if they are going to bring that many "new" models onto the market. Watch this space i think.
I got the impression they were struggling more lately. Sticking their logo on a third party asian manufacturer's bike and selling it in high volumes seems like the name of the game here. I've read that Norton are working on a similar project too. I can't see how Harley could realistically fund that many genuinely new models if the reports of their sales are true.
Here in America, where wide open spaces can still be enjoyed, I look forward to experiencing the HD electric mountain bike. As an owner and fan of the brand, and although I don't agree with all their business decisions, I do wish this legendary company all the best.
2, 3 or 4 cylinder V-twin 200cc to 400cc is very popular in Asia market..
I mean HD being a brand about tradition and heritage, i think they should stick to what they're known for, but idk every company has to evolve right!? All boils down to business!
That's it I'm afraid Toby! Cashing in on the brand. But I guess they have to do something different to keep the company going. I admire them for trying something new with the LiveWire too. It looks quite tame for the money they're asking, but they're one of the first big manufacturers to really go all in on the electric bikes. So I've got some respect for that
Personally, a smaller, cheaper Harley shouldn't have the badge. Think Toyota and Lexus...they need to eventually separate the brand/badge to maintain an image and price point. The HD legacy shouldn't be tarnished by buzzy, small, light weight, utility bikes. Right??
Tonnes of harley crowds in Asia where I'm from. Lemme tell ya, big murican machines like that can't make a turn in some of these streets w/o running over a dozen scooters. Not sure if making smaller cc bikes will save the company, but as a sportbike rider it def sounds appealing to me.
The MC market out here is definitely changing, but I'm not sure this is the answer. Inexpensive and frugal on costs are what drives the mass market. This seems to be a very American response to a market that still favours 150-400cc bikes. Electric might have been a better choice for R&D $.
Well they've certainly put a lot of cash into the LiveWire... but yeah it would have been cool if they'd made something affordable too. Maybe that's what they're looking at with the elec scooter type thing they prototyped.
Harley should consider a 500cc parallel twin with a 270°crank firing cruiser/adventure style (neutral foot pegs giving 90° at the knee) for Indian markets. Power around 40bhp and torque around 45 nm, optimised for mid range and max speed 150-160kmph. Driving range fueled for 300-350km. Ensure clearance at least 150mm and seat height not more than 780mm. That would be a total winner with the right price point around Rs 4- 4.5 lakhs on road and maximised Indian production. There is a huge market for that bike range and no new effort required on the branding which is already in place. The rider age range would be 25-70 years. Can they do it? With the way Royal Enfield is going, thats their best bet. Being an RE Interceptor rider, I think such would be good competition.
Funny how this gets recommended to me as soon as fekon victorino 250i (vtwin engine) was announced here in Philippines
Not sure a 250 cc engine is what die hard Harley fans looking for. However, 350 to 500 V-Twin can look good and SOUND reasonably good. That might be a good starter range for North America as well.
I would buy a 250cc harley without a second thought
350 and 500 cc would be good options.
350 to 400 cc would be perfect for the city and suburbs for fuel consumption and power. medium distance trips, etc.
Hopefully they would be better than the 90cc Z90 I had as a kid.
250cc + value for money
I agree 🇮🇩
The Retro look is very sought after in asian markets. I would say if harley introduce a retro looking scrambler with a twin cylinder (doesnt have to be in v configuration), they will definately succeed
Dont know if this apply for all asians country but here in Malaysia we have 3 different motorcyle licences which is for under 250cc, under 500cc and more than 500cc. Most people settled for the first type of licence. Also, here the bigger the engine the more expensive the road tax become. that's why underbone bike such as yamaha y15zr is such a popular model. Moreover, it's much easier to travel in a populated cities with such bike.
250 to 500cc anything that competiate royal Enfield
Can be a great success in india
in india specialy kerela majority people are taking RE .Now there is lot RE ()and kids wants some thing beTter and unique
We all loved the sound of RE dub dub and new engine doesn't have any sound so many RE fans are not fans New RE
250cc parallel twin for India at a price of INR 250,000 on road (after taxes and insurance) will set the ball rolling for HD and see the average Indian swerve away from Royal Enfield and all other single cylinders
100 new models? Sounds more like many other companies rebranding in joint venture with HD to accomplish this task, but it makes a lot of sense in savings in such a diverse market...
If Harley Davidson ready tu launch the 250cc fr low price sure I will buy one with in no time ☺️
Upto 350-700cc twin might do the magic for india but has to b with in price range and that shouldn't exceed $5000 mark
Difficult to see how HD will ever complete with bikes like the new Honda Rebel 500.
Well to compare price points. The rebel 500 is about the same price as Harley Davidson hard saddle bags. That's how.
Larry House ?? Not in the UK or Europe or Asia. An Iron is about $3000 more expensive without bags. Also, the Rebel has better low end torque, is much lighter, bettered made with better ground clearance superior cornering & a bullet-proof engine. With the Harley you are paying for a brand but getting a pretty average bike.
@@chriscoplans916 in Canada if you bring your bike in without saddle bags, and you want them installed. The hardware and installation and all is about 6 grand.
@Larry House I think the position outside the USA & Canada is very different for Harley. I live in the UK, which doesn’t have the open roads of North America. Harley’s are neither practical of well priced & the Harley culture of NA doesn’t really exist over here. It’s something of a niche market for those who are Harley obsessed. There are many more practical, more reliable & better prices bikes available. All I’m saying is that Harley will struggle to complete in the lower capacity market unless they come up with something radical, better made & competitively priced. The market in North America is very different to the rest of the world & there is no “buy American” culture elsewhere. Even in the US Harley are struggling with an ageing demographic. Younger riders are looking at lightweight sports bikes & caf racers rather than heavy cruisers. Adventure and sports tourers are increasingly popular for long distance touring & retro bikes like the Guzzi v7 & Triumph Bonnies are becoming the bikes of choice for an increasing demographic. As far as I can see the Rebel can do everything a Harley can do & more for considerably less money. I don’t think Harley have really moved with the times in much the same way as British manufactures didn’t in the late 60s/early 70s when the Japanese came along with the Superbikes.
There's a bike I know that has 250cc that is kinda HD inspired called the Pantagonian Eagle by Keeway
Yeah, I'd say a 500 street which, like Norton have, they could have a 250 single using just the front pot. The street mono? They'd be mad if they didn't use the technology from the livewire in many new models too.
Harley started to do just that...develop a single cylinder "half a Buell" engine for an off road motorcycle...perhaps to get involved in the pro MX frenzy that has taken over the USA and all but put American flat track out of business. That would have been HUGE for HD IMO...can you imagine the fan support at a Pro MX race with a full fledge competitive Harley team out there? I read that Eric Buell was suppose to develop said engine but of course Harley pulled the plug very quickly on that plan. Eric Buell and HD split not long after that. I don't think the HD management was thrilled with the fact that Eric Buell could get Harley engines to run WAY better that Harley could. Willie G. seems to be happy just sitting around the corporate management meeting table smoking dubes and watching HD go down like the Titanic...
No one will touch a small engine harley... its like paying to watch an elephant and being shown a pig with a rubber hose for a nose
Harley have dabbled in the 250cc bracket years back, using Italian 2strokes, 250/350 model for Asia could be a good move, as there is a brand aware market , if they do it right, there might be demand for the baby HDs in Europe? BUT- China/Korea/India have got a good foothold on the Euro Market for smaller capacity bikes, and BMW for one now has a baby beemer in their line up, as do Suzuki. The problem with smaller capacity/lower power bikes for Europe is possibly the mindset that they won't be up to dealing with mainstream traffic. Here in France, I can go miles on virtually empty roads, couple with a Tom Tom, I can easily avoid the autoroutes., UK might be a problem as country roads usually join traffic infested routes, however, many of the Chinese 125 riders reckon they manage ok on their bikes.
250 cc should be less than 2 lakh to compete in india with cheap spares and less service cost..
Make it a 300cc to compete against Royal Enfield 350's & the Jawa.
Good luck HD 👍🏽
I think it's a good idea, plus a scooter.
Harley means standard.
However, Indians are no nomadic to buy bikes more than Rs.3 lakhs.
Suggested that Harley redesign It's 500 cc street to look like a functional cruiser - looks a like Fat Boy..and prices between 3 to 4 lakhs,people would buy.
Thoughtful video. Hope Harley understands Indian sentiments. Godspeed.
Yes, with flat (or cafe) like seat...
You left your backpack bro!
The HD bikes are great.
The problem to me is ( as a HD owner ) the cost.
The purchase price is very high.. not that big a problem but it has to be said .
The accessories and mods are too expensive.
Most people spend thousands and thousands of dollars on up grades.
We're getting tired of it.
HD should bring out model's that don't need to be changed to much.
The new buyer's will come to a complete package atpos.
Imo the company should be delivering more to the customer and looking after them with cheaper after sales service.
Many people feel HD are there to squeeze money out of us .. this has to change.
What is needed for India..price point..mileage..cheap service and spares and oh yes 4 free service coupons... 😂
Same like Indonesia
Royal Enfield is making 650cc twin for 4000 us dollars in India. Can Harley make something similar? Atleast a 350cc twin for the same price?
I hope this 250cc HD will enter Asia market... Btw I'm from Malaysia .. and i really hope this model will enter Malaysia market
There's only one way to get better sales figures, start winning races. That's the only reason Ducati have survived making a V Twin.
They will never penetrate the third world market with a cheap motorbike, you can't beat them at their own game. A 250 V twin over here like Honda's might recruit new riders, or secondary bike riders if they could manage to keep it under $4000.00, and owner loyalty could create future sales down the road. Reliability will keep the third world bikes over there, and quality will cause affluent buyers to seek Harleys over here. The world market business model is a trap!
250-500cc with 70's XR750 flattracker lookalike, will sell.
Wait...
2 Million new riders in the US?
That’s more than 0.6% of the population of the US.
In 2011 there were 8,410,255 motorcycles *registered* in the US.
That means Harley wants to add increase that figure by roughly 20% solely on the basis of *their* additional sales.
🤷♂️
It gets worse.
In 2018, a total of 472k motorcycles were sold in the US. (Down more than 50% since 2007.)
Gaining 2 million new HD riders over the next 10 years assumes that they’ll be able to add, on average, roughly 50% of the current market in new customers *by themselves* each year.
In a market which is currently shrinking.
How?
No, really. How does HD think they can grow the market an average of 50% *by themselves* each year for 10 years? Sure, they’re adding a few new lines, but they’re big, expensive, high-displacement bikes, slightly extending their existing lines of big, expensive, high displacement bikes.
I know this is just one slide of a presentation, but unless HD has some *serious* magic ready to let loose, this seems more like wishful thinking than a plan for the company’s survival.
www.statista.com/topics/1305/motorcycles-in-the-us/
Make 500 cc bike and keep the budget in 3,50,000 and it should be twin cylinder engine but vibration should be very minimum the Asian people can buy it and don't forget dual channel ABS and other safety features
They should manufacturer high capacity bike at effective price rate . Not below than 600 cc
Looks like Emerging world which still assumes that Harleys are the “best and most technologically advanced bikes money can buy” can save Harley Davidson in the years to come !
it is really matter tho, even if you making 150cc if the price is expensive nobody would buy it, idk...which should i buy, a HD or a downpayment for my house? hmm hard to choose.......
They already make a 500cc its here in New Zealand has been for a few years now
If they are made small engine under 500cc engine,...please don't use name Harley anymore, let's make a new sub brand under Harley. Because for some market place in asia brand Harley is about prestige, bigger engine, high price etc...(from my humble advice) 🙏😇
Better to reduce street 750 price and hd must work on quality parts too royal Enfield is selling a 650cc parallel twins at the price tag of 2.5 nobody gonna hd 750 at the price tag of 5.5
As far as tax and insurance rate almost adds upto 30% to the price. And 6k dollars becomes 6lakhs rupees too.
Sure if 250cc Harley launch in India Kerala I would be the happiest person among of them all but price has tu be must below 15000
15000? Or you forgot a zero?
We are waiting
is Harley Davidson in trouble are sales down
Way too heavy for being a 250, what is the point?
Point of getting a 250 is to be nimble, and save on gass and a much easier ride.
Well when it comes to the indian market people would prefer expensive royal enfields to cheap harleys.....also I'm sure a cheaper harley is sure to damage their big bike sales in india
We'll come to in India 🇮🇳 I have
One thing is becoming apparent to me with all this news. My 2020 iron 883 is going to be laughably outdated in performance and features by the end of this year or the next when compared with all these new, modern, motorcycle designs Harley is coming out with.
I will be absolutely disgusted if my 883 is producing the same-ish hp and torque as the new 500 or 300 in Asia and India! I mean good for them, that’s great for those markets but I’ll need some upgrades in the worst way!
HDs are very expensive in the emerging markets (even for not so poor eastern European markets) - I do not know how they want to fight for customers there (watch CNBS's clip about HD in India). The second thing is that they have no "new blood" as it comes to customers. Old guys (no offence, I am thinking of myself as an old guy and thinking about buying Sportster :)) are buying HDs and they are not switching to new models (there is no reason to switch from one bike to another one looking almost the same and behaving on the road the same/similar).
It’s like a lamborghini building a corolla
Upright bikes prefered in India
Highly doubt Harley can be saved by 250cc in Asia, because they won't keep prices down. Secondly, Harley is about styling, Asians want functionality! Tim
The Harley street will not beat the swagg style existing in Royal Enfield, hence the smaller displacement model will be an epic FAIL
The problem for Harley is other manufacturers make smaller cc bikes that are very reliable and relatively cheap Harley can't bring itself to do that! When you can buy better reliability for less money people are going to go elsewhere and not even give Harley a look!!! Try again
Why people need H. D. when there is Honda?
Harley should work on a completely different, 250-400 cc engine. I hope they don't rework the street rod's engine to make a cheaper alternative.
In the right price category it will be a bomb in the market... waiting to get one as soon as it comes
Any update now???
It would be world breaking sales!! If it does that!! Price should be not put as a brand rather by performance.. if it attaches its brand name and increase its price.. it would be like bmw 310.. not worth it!!!
HD sould to do a 250 and 500cc choppers bikes to Asia and Europe I thing
What Harley needs is to drop this BS V-twin and cruiser era only and Stop pricing themselves out away from the competition.
Smaller cc bikes are in demand, but Harley will shoot themselves in the foot with the ridiculous price tag they put on it! Small cc should equal small price, but Harley will f*** that up!!!
Lunching Time in indian market plzz reply
👍
No need small displacement vehicles that will decrease the value of the company
Probably
We want simple classic look Harley Devidson Bike For India Which As Same As RE or Jawa...!!
(Not a Harley, so slightly off topic, sorry! ) Triumph might have sold me a 125 back last year, if they'd made one. Don't guess it's worth their while.
@Mr. Happy Well yeah . 125s are a bit like a lawn mower. If I'd been allow to ride something bigger on a provisional licence I would have !
It's a risk. Hd will be competing against RE. HD would either flourish or lose its brand value.
Wow!!!!🤘🤘👍☝️☝️ nothing new officially need to further explanation
Take the 750 platform and launch a few models in th 6000 dollar range
i rather buy an airplane over Harley
Too late ...already 250 to 300 cc segment is being dominated by other brands in India with cheaper pricing and low maintenance cost. Given the Harleys standards they will manufacture bikes that will cost more compaired to other brands .Market penetration won't be easy and if they are planning to sell these small segment bikes for more bulk sales they should have done this 3 years back .