Lifting natty is like putting money in the bank slowly and steadily because the muscle you gain is easy to maintain (and regain if you lose some of it). Lifting while roiding is like getting a 30-year mortage with a floating interest rate . If a setback renders you insolvent, you lose everything.
wouldn't that just tell you not to bodybuild? crossfitters are on gear and they're not dying young, weightlifters arent dying young, olympians arent dying young, everyone in the tour de france isn't dying young. it's just bodybuilders
@@elder_millennial_FboyPlenty of ex soviet lifters and bulgarians for example died young. Crossfit is still a young sport so it’s hard to tell. But dosage and compounds does play a big part. There are other factors at play as well such as mental health and body image issues that come with bodybuilding which makes people push things too far more easily imo
If I'm not making millions off of my athletic performance or physique, it's not worth it. I don't want to wreck my body/hormonal system to be the strongest/most muscular guy in the local town.
but it can legit improve your life and health, why does everyone think that PED's automatically make you get every side effect and you dying at 30. Nah bro, those are rare cases of abuse just like anything else that's abused in life.
I honestly think the fitness industry is in a sad state. It is essentially run but a bunch of “influencers” on social media that are geared out of their minds. Bodybuilding, CrossFit, weightlifting, hYbRiD there’s just so much obvious ped use. And no one admits it. It’s pathetic.
Agree man. Like go to a gym. It is.a bunch go people filming themselves. Like hardly working out..jsut texting then filming themselves when they do lift. I built my home gym up and I am done with gyms. No one respects them anymore. They are supposed to be places to work hard. I almost viewed them like a dojo.
I miss when the fitness space was actually about “fitness” and “health”. Now, it’s all about blasting PEDs, lying about it, and convincing sheep to buy your useless products and nonsensical workout programs. Actual fitness and health has taken a holiday in this space.
There’s major financial incentives to do this stuff otherwise the risk outweighs the reward. I think social media is the real issue here. People wanna see big freaks of nature not regular people, so brands pay these types of people, after that it’s just money see monkey do.
Doing steroids on your own without a doctor/somebody that knows this shit is like trying to repair a state-of-the-art swiss clock on your own with tools from your dad’s garage
I took ligandrol for a month and didn’t do a PCT, and it was the worst depression and anxiety I have ever experienced in 43 years of life, and having a history of depression and anxiety, I already had an understanding of how it feels to go through an episode. It’s two months later and I’m just starting to feel back to my normal self. Huge huge huge mistake
I armwrestle and some of those guys are on steroids because most armwrestling tournaments are untested. They took steroids and got strong for a little while. Some of them got terrible acne scars from it, some of them lost their hair. One of them said his vision got messed up from it. They eventually had to hop off the steroids because they were having health problems. Now their test levels are low and they gained 20 or 30lbs of bodyfat and lost a lot of muscle. This stuff isn't worth it, it will jam you up.
Some of the side effects you listed could be due to age, hair for example. Vision I've only really heard the SARM s4 causing this acutely and the PCT ancillary Clomid. I don't think anyone reasonable is going to debate that irresponsible PED use isn't/can be very damaging, there are compounds, doses, ancillaries and common sense ways where you can mitigate a lot of the side effects and harm. Unfortunately a lot of people do not do proper research.
@@Lightitupp1my doctor when I went on TRT tried clomiphene first and it gave my eye floaters. I just tell people if they gonna start TRT or got low T just go straight for Test Cyp it's most effective least side effects as long as you taking reasonable doses.
@@JustChill-zd4ib The positives are short-lived, the negatives are often not. I agree though that dumb people aren't known for making judicious decisions.
Those who take the time to think "risk / reward", cost of monthly testing,...don't actually have issues. Those who don't "think" will fill the jails and hospitals.
Both my children’s mothers had severe postpartum and both have ongoing personality and/or hormonal imbalances many many years later. Once I obtained the best hormonal stability through the carnivore diet and never have insulin’s spikes which never make me hangry, etc. all minor fluctuations gone, I’ve realized there is a lot we can do to control our hormones with diet. So if you start injecting yourself with chemicals that mess with your hormones, and you’re still lacking the discipline and control to control your diet… you are trying to take the easy fast shortcut to something you shouldn’t.. your going to regret it one way or another. I wouldn’t even do micro dose of TRT until you have depleted all options with your diet including the Carnivore diet for a year+ super strict, then Saladino version with some carbs if your working out and training weekly hardcore, and then and only then… if your testosterone still isn’t normal, and your 50+ years old, maybe … but I doubt you tried hard enough.. stop being lazy and taking shortcuts. You are giving yourself an excuse if you are geared out.
Breath of fresh air!! I hope all the young guys will listen to this. I made great gains not knowing what I was doing and I was on 200mg Mexican test. I went from 165 to 200 pounds. Years later I won my first light heavyweight and open overall title using 100mg oral winstrol a day for the past four weeks (it was all I could get at the time). Moral of the story? You don’t need as much as you think.
the 2 biggest side effects that apparently rarely people talk about are the extremely fast aging and the fact that your body deflates extremely fast once you stop taking them... sure you can keep a decent size but its no where near the size you had previously
A bad side effect nobody talks about but is common is rising psa. My PSA went up when on trt. 100 mgs per week. 2 years in and My psa started rising. So I quit. I’m 62 with low test levels and just deal with it now. My urologist says it’s a pretty common side effect that the clinics don’t talk about.
Testosterone doesnt "age: you, it masculinizes your face due to androgens. If you want to have a babyface Testosterone will get rid of it. So whats your trade off? you want to feel bad but have a babyface? or feel great and look more masculinized and "adult" tbh people have way too much of an obsession with their looks. to an unhealthy degree
@@sammasic5849 prostate specific antigen. As your prostate grows it gives off more psa. It either grows due to age, streroid use or cancer. They use the test as a proxy to detect prostate cancer. I had an mri and it didn’t find any cancer so to continue trt my urologist wanted to do a biopsy. I didn’t do it knowing a rise in psa is common on trt. 3 months after quitting trt my psa went back to normal. My doctor hasn’t replied to anything since. Glad I didn’t get the biopsy.
Dangerous drug use should never be advertised. And we do that constantly. Immagine that: randomly putting hormones in your body messes it up forever. Mindblowing i know.
I’m longtime watcher, I would appreciate if you posted the podcast on non-video format type sites full length before the clip drip feed. I understand the clip game and all that on YT, but I think that’s a different audience from who watches you audio-only. Derek works with PKA guys for Lock’n’Load and they seem to treat the podcast uploads versus YT viewers separately. They upload their full podcast audio only on Spotify and Apple first, I believe, and then upload the YT release. They even go so far as to release their Patreon content audio only on those platforms and the video content is behind a paywall. I don’t think you would lose much by uploading the content on those platforms as quickly as possible, as far as monetization or growth, is my sentiment.
I’ve stopped doing my podcast. Getting guests was damn near impossible. So Derek was in town and I wanted to get a conversation with him up for my YT audience.
@@zacktelander Dang, thanks for the heads up; I think another one of my favorite training podcasts ended out of the blue a year or two ago for what I’m assuming is the exact same reason so I don’t think it’s an uncommon problem.
Stronger by science does a podcast you may enjoy, it's on YT too. They are both lifetime naturals, one a powerlifter one a bodybuilder, they write MASS, which derives much of the YT content on other channels.
There's no winning either way. If The Rock came out and said he uses gear, and just listed all of the negatives, then people would be like, "Well why tf do you even use them then?" If he then said, "Well they help a bit but the negatives far outweigh the positives" then people wouldn't believe him (because that would make him a moron) or he'd be accused of downplaying how much he's benefited from using gear. And if he does the inverse, and says how much they've helped him while talking about the negatives somewhat, then he's glorifying steroids. I think it just comes down to people's inherent belief systems. None of the staunchly natty guys are against steroids on a scientific or risk assessment level. Hell, a lot of them don't know shit about them or believe a lot of myths. They just have an inherent dislike of steroids and view them as cheating (which is fair). The kid who's asking about steroids has already thought about and most likely decided to use them. They just want to hear someone else's approval.
Girlfriend: "WHAT IS GOING ON WITH YOU??" Boyfriend: *PUNCHES GIRLFRIEND IN FACE* 😂 It's not the answer she expected but it's the answer she deserved! ...😂
A sub-optimised, lazy-ish casual guy experiencing testosterone levels of an alpha gladiator.... wouldn't suprise me. I'm sure it would be the same with MDMA or heroine for most, if they have never experienced such highs. I smoked weed for 10 years, and when you elevate your 'normal' for extended periods, anything less becomes sub-regular and feels lacking. Balance, my dude xxxx
@@kingcatx2and where are u going to buy legit pharma graded steroids? Or are you gonna do "lab research" on the underground steroids u would buy from drug dealers that act like being a legit company?
I will say TRT companies, like the one Derek promotes, definitely have a mostly negative effect, even if his information on his channel is extremely helpful. I have seen people on reddit who are average or slightly lower than average get instantly dosed 200mg of "TRT", no matter the age (I've seen a 16 year old with regular natty levels get prescribed lol), activity level, diet/body comp, etc. There's a reason why these companies are getting cracked down on by the FDA. Telemed during the pandemic has made this practice even worse. I'm also pretty sure these companies will sell anything they have on stock in any amount, as long as you're willing to pay. Obviously TRT does help a lot of people but the amount of people who actually need it vs. the people who just want to take shortcuts or seek some sort of fleeting vanity is such a big difference.
Very sceptical of seemingly causeless "low testosterone" diagnoses with no related pathologies done beyond total t, free t & shbg. It doesn't just fall off a cliff once you hit the age of 35, you've just had the lifestyle of a Wall-E character for the last 15 years and lack the humility to slowly tackle and reverse the problem through your own actions. Here in Australia it is much more strictly regulated and not prescribed very freely. I've been seeing an endocrinologist for appx. 1.5 years regarding a DSD (most likely MAIS) and am yet to be put onto any form of hormone treatment. Unfortunately my desire to be 230lbs lean doesn't speed up their process of testing, diagnosing and treating/managing.
Agreed, dereks channel also gives people this glorified view of trt, which convinced my friend that trt is way better than natty (its not) to make gains; looks like an average guy in the gym and now has to pin test for life at a very young age
@@perfor5376lol no it’s still a clinic, makes money the way other clinics do. Just because you like Derek doesn’t mean it’s any different. I have a friend who told me his experience and it’s not any different from the clinics I’ve read about online. Do you think Derek is the one talking to you or doing your appointments? Why are you talking about “cookie cutter cycles?” What does this even mean in the context of this conversation lol
@@nicholastartaglia4276 Its not that i like him, which i dont know him, im going off of his marketing for his clinic, hes always boasting about having qualified doctors, and cookie cutter is talking about the 200mg for trt no matter who you are, ive not had an experience in his clinic so, im going off the advertising
Drinking is a right of passage in the certian context, great social lubricant, pick your battles. But being mid 30s looking back, the 'lifestyle' does arrest your development. Sure can say had fun but would have preffered a more mature me getting into my career and family goals sooner. Could have been married a little younger, kids a little younger, and prob got my business going sooner and been much better off for it if I wasn't distracted by being 'social' and going out a lot.
And if you had that you might instead be probably thinking you regret not having fun while you were young. Probably you wouldn't even be the person you are now, who knows.
I regret taking all of the crazy drugs i did back when i was a teenager, but i don't regret the times i had whilst on them, which were some of the best times of my life. Everything in moderation, maybe not PEDs because they are a cycle, it would be like me taking cocaine everyday for a month, its not good for you at all, even drinking daily isn't good for you. Now i probably have 2-3bottles of beer per week, sometimes nothing. I would honestly rather wake up feeling great and take myself off to the gym then get wasted on a Friday night and suffer the next day.
My short stint in substance abuse led me to loose all my endurance and I didnt gain and muscle. Almost 10yrs later still struggling to get endurance back up to speed
@@harleyzethmaybe, but weird to say "I didn't gain muscle" if it wasn't steroids, or to not give some indication of the substance category, and we can assume they weren't an elite athlete working in fringe performance territory because an elite would not say they lost "all" their endurance. I can't think of anything that would have this long-term effect, from alcohol to meth to opiates, if it's a short or even moderately long stint. There would have to be some pretty serious organ damage done in an unusually short time, and 10yrs clean is (way) more than enough. The human body is amazingly resilient.
My kid was interested. I told my 16 yr old to get to 25 before you even consider it. Workout hard for 10 years and max out your hard work and genetics and if you still want to do it then have at it. So far he’s listened and understands the side effects etc. The only way forward is education.
My mind is absolutely blown Derek has just gone to his first concert. He's done so so many things I'll never be able to, but I've been going to shows forever! Wow!
My thing is about doing PEDs is "why?", youre plenty capable of gettting big and strong enough naturally. What is being more than that going to bring you? If it can change your career (pro athlete, influencer) then sure. But if youre just a normal person who wants to br jacked, the natural way is fine.
the natural way is borring and has its limits. i trained for 10 years natural and the jump on gear was 100% worth it the thing is for some people "normal person" is borring
@@tougeattack123 well thats lot better than the kids who start doing gear as they sign up for gym membership. At least you got 10 years of experience under your belt first.
Well i do not agree. I Got very Big as natural after 7 years of natural bodybuilding, But you need to bring in peds if you want to be a good competitor. Why not do peds? Its safe if you know what to do. A day natty is a day wasted
steroids aren't really the issue - its the rampant narcissism and body dysmorphia that our culture is producing and rewarding. Its worse for (straight) guys cuz they don't want to talk about it...this video really demonstrated that. I don't watch Derek, but seems like a guy who may have struggled with it.
MDMA/LSD/Mushrooms are all fantastic compounds, and they dont always give one "whisky dik" its all in the dose, and please test your substances before consuming. its 2023 and you can't take that risk anymore. be safe, always remember you can always take more. have fun
I regret not getting into PEDs when I was younger. I missed out on years of peak athletic performance Edit: what I mean is that there is a lot more that I could have done with enhancement. I think about all of the challenges I didn’t do because my body was broken or because I was sick, and I know that it would be different if I was using PEDs
Comment section full of guys who want to do gear and so they stalk Derek online obsessing over a safe way to take steroids but since they can't convince them selves to do it so they try to comfort themselves by commenting self righteous bull crap.
I did a cycle of test(half cc a week)when I was in the Air Force stationed in Incirlik, Turkey back in 1986. I got the advice from the big guy walking around base with a huge ghetto blaster on his shoulder. He told me the doc's name in downtown Adana and I went there regularly for about two and half months. The doc did warn me about liver damage. Anyway, I had already been working out for 2 years but the test took me to a whole nother' level immediately. I remember telling the doc this it my last visit and he said "smart boy" I was way too young and 500 mg was insane for me. I'd say to anybody age 30-50 workout hard for 2 years before trying a 3 month cycle of 100mg every 5 days.. then cycle off for 3 months. If that isn't great then do another cycle, this time with 200mg every 5 days. My best guess is this would work very well for 75% of the guys who try this.
How about the presidents that fought against Central Banking because they knew what it would do and then Christmas Eve 1913 when no one's paying attention the Federal Reserve becomes a thing and in 1914 income tax is written into the Constitution as law. It doesn't matter what anybody's opinion is, it doesn't change facts that we've been robbed into slavery
Those rate hikes and everything else they do are just smoke and mirrors, like QE being a fancy phrase for legalized counterfeiting but they don't nearly do it as bad as the banks
As (probably) one of the OLDEST (if not THE oldest) subscriber of this channel (going back to Zack's A & M years) ) I feel that I must push back on the overall demeanor of this entire conversation. Seeing 2 young guys (in 30's) banter about all the drugs they've done and then acting as IF they won't be affected over their Lifespan is simply a denial of REALITY! As someone from a Medical background I am shocked there is no mention made of the long term effects on the liver, pancreas and other internal organs. While I do hope / pray that Derek will not experience any effects once he's into his 50's and above, I can tell you that as a forever "nattie" lifter now aged 61 (and still competing) I have a total T level of 639, so there IS a way for older men to maintain (and possibly increase) their T (free and total T) WITHOUT any drugs whatsoever. The fact that you guys are just laughing it up about all the different drugs dilutes the seriousness of the abusive actions in many strength sports today. When you are young and "fearless" everything seems wonderful but JUST wait a few years (decades) and THEN you will see how all that past actions have affected both Lifespan and Healthspan. When Derek was on with Peter Attia it was a totally different vibe - and only time will tell how Derek's (and other users) health will be affected.
I agree...as soon as you start seeing guys in their late 40s/early 50s depressed, overweight with ED, on BP and cholesterol pills and heart big enough for safari mammal, you realize its a short-term lifestyle with the real price-tag coming years down the road...
@@5hydroxyT Exactly right! I've already BEEN through my 40's and 50's now, and while I have definitely experienced my "ups and downs" in Life, I HAVE NEVER let myself stop moving / lifting / running / swimming for an extended period. While I did (and still do!) want to get better / faster / stronger to compete as an athlete, I would never have even considered putting something into my body (even for short term gain) that I would not know how it MAY affect my Life in the future! As it is, nearly every day we hear / read about different chemicals / agents / additives in our drinking water, food and even our cookware (such as these "forvever" chemicals that appear to be in the bloodstreams of 85% of Americans now!) I cannot understand WHY a young man would inject something into his body that he has NO definite idea as to what it may do to him down the road! Making light of this (as in this conversation) is almost akin to encouragement for the younger generation. Sorry to be so extreme, but to me this subject is SERIOUS business and should not be made "light of" - even comically!
@daveh71 I'm no candlestick...why do you think I'm hating? He's got his balls vs a steroid user having no balls. Zak would out lift me in all the lifts. He's good at what he does. I can't call him a candlestick? Lol. So sensitive!
Yea if you have a serious hormonal imbalance, especially low estrogen, it won’t matter how much viagra/Cialis you take, you will not be physically able to get aroused
I guess I’m lucky. I so much as look at a pair of barbells and I gain muscle. Feel for the poor guys who feel forced to take these unnatural shortcuts. It is possible to do it naturally. U just need some patience
It could be because he seems happier, maybe? I know nothing of Zack’s life beyond what he posts, but he’s mentioned that he’s enjoying his music a lot more lately, which is probably very fulfilling. I’ve often noticed that being happy makes people look younger. My apologies to Zack if I’m talking out of line.
you know what sucks? my weak ass got gyno in 7th grade for no fuckin reason and i just have to deal with this ugly ass chest and i'm not even jacked. i'm 28 now btw.
Go get surgery , you are a grown man save up money on the side and get it off. Unless you'd rather spend your money chasing around whor3s that had 59 dudes in them before you.
2 types of guys, the ones that take stuff for their penis to grow, and the ones that take stuff for their muscles. Both come down to insecurities as professional body builders usually get big before going on sauce. Guys need to grow balls and go out there naked and start building authentic social relationshipss
Insert whatever risky thing then. The point remains true. If someone says “understand the risks” when they themselves have taken steroids and have garnered incredible success, then a 20 something year old kid is going to say that he has assessed the risks when in reality he is just wanting that success.
“But you will gain lots of size” - “No excuses just improve”….what a godly transition 😂
Yeah that is really interesting transition ^^
Same thoughts
Congrats to Derek once again for his openness regarding his own experience and to you Zack for having discussions like this
I simply don't want to mess with my endocrine/hormone system. Too many unknowns.
Valid, same for me. If it wasnt for that i would be blasting tomorrow😂
Lifting natty is like putting money in the bank slowly and steadily because the muscle you gain is easy to maintain (and regain if you lose some of it). Lifting while roiding is like getting a 30-year mortage with a floating interest rate . If a setback renders you insolvent, you lose everything.
@@johnyoutube4073sure buddy, you seem like a knowledgeable person
@johnyoutube4073 Nice analogy!! With permission, I'll use that.
Just blast some Tren brotha
Got shown that Ben Affleck PSA video in high school health class and that shit made everyone laugh so hard
Zack's "asking for a friend" face when he asks "what were those forums, specifically?" 😂
Nah he said “what European people? You said Foreign?” ??😂😂
Its weird to see Derek grow up. Like Im gonna watch this guy go through every stage of exogenous hormone use and document it. That is so so valuable.
Looking around at the number of body builders on PEDs who have died young is enough reason to avoid them for most people
wouldn't that just tell you not to bodybuild? crossfitters are on gear and they're not dying young, weightlifters arent dying young, olympians arent dying young, everyone in the tour de france isn't dying young. it's just bodybuilders
It's the mass and heavy drug use to support that mass. Blood pressure, lipid, LDL, and so many factors play into it.
It’s not just the gear is everiyhing combined GH, insulin, diuretics, thermogenic’s and testosterone derivatives and now even experimental peptides.
@@elder_millennial_FboyPlenty of ex soviet lifters and bulgarians for example died young. Crossfit is still a young sport so it’s hard to tell. But dosage and compounds does play a big part.
There are other factors at play as well such as mental health and body image issues that come with bodybuilding which makes people push things too far more easily imo
What about the tens of thousands who don’t die?
If I'm not making millions off of my athletic performance or physique, it's not worth it. I don't want to wreck my body/hormonal system to be the strongest/most muscular guy in the local town.
imagine TRT for life.. what a burden that has to be.
@@pauliusgecas472it’s really not a big deal. Two quick tiny shots a week and routine bloodwork and donating blood every four months. That’s about it.
Exactly
@@pauliusgecas472 at least we are going to have a lot more data in a few decades since 16 y.o kids are taking tren nowdays.
but it can legit improve your life and health, why does everyone think that PED's automatically make you get every side effect and you dying at 30. Nah bro, those are rare cases of abuse just like anything else that's abused in life.
I honestly think the fitness industry is in a sad state. It is essentially run but a bunch of “influencers” on social media that are geared out of their minds. Bodybuilding, CrossFit, weightlifting, hYbRiD there’s just so much obvious ped use. And no one admits it. It’s pathetic.
Agree man. Like go to a gym. It is.a bunch go people filming themselves. Like hardly working out..jsut texting then filming themselves when they do lift. I built my home gym up and I am done with gyms. No one respects them anymore. They are supposed to be places to work hard. I almost viewed them like a dojo.
at least you recognize it right? I mean that's half the battle.
I miss when the fitness space was actually about “fitness” and “health”. Now, it’s all about blasting PEDs, lying about it, and convincing sheep to buy your useless products and nonsensical workout programs. Actual fitness and health has taken a holiday in this space.
There’s major financial incentives to do this stuff otherwise the risk outweighs the reward. I think social media is the real issue here. People wanna see big freaks of nature not regular people, so brands pay these types of people, after that it’s just money see monkey do.
Doing steroids on your own without a doctor/somebody that knows this shit is like trying to repair a state-of-the-art swiss clock on your own with tools from your dad’s garage
I took ligandrol for a month and didn’t do a PCT, and it was the worst depression and anxiety I have ever experienced in 43 years of life, and having a history of depression and anxiety, I already had an understanding of how it feels to go through an episode. It’s two months later and I’m just starting to feel back to my normal self. Huge huge huge mistake
at this point I think Zack wants to cycle lol
i always assumed zack was on ... hes STRONG
ngl it would be interesting to see him doing a little cycle. He is already strong. I wonder what his PRs would be then?
yeah the boys!
There's no Wada, but there's Derek. You should plan your revenge on Chris for him exposing you to Dr Mike.
I armwrestle and some of those guys are on steroids because most armwrestling tournaments are untested. They took steroids and got strong for a little while. Some of them got terrible acne scars from it, some of them lost their hair. One of them said his vision got messed up from it. They eventually had to hop off the steroids because they were having health problems. Now their test levels are low and they gained 20 or 30lbs of bodyfat and lost a lot of muscle. This stuff isn't worth it, it will jam you up.
Some of the side effects you listed could be due to age, hair for example. Vision I've only really heard the SARM s4 causing this acutely and the PCT ancillary Clomid. I don't think anyone reasonable is going to debate that irresponsible PED use isn't/can be very damaging, there are compounds, doses, ancillaries and common sense ways where you can mitigate a lot of the side effects and harm. Unfortunately a lot of people do not do proper research.
@@Lightitupp1my doctor when I went on TRT tried clomiphene first and it gave my eye floaters. I just tell people if they gonna start TRT or got low T just go straight for Test Cyp it's most effective least side effects as long as you taking reasonable doses.
@@Lightitupp1high blood pressure can mess with vision
yeah yeah its bad obviously. People will still do it because its a mixed bag and positives for them outweigh the negatives obviously.
@@JustChill-zd4ib The positives are short-lived, the negatives are often not. I agree though that dumb people aren't known for making judicious decisions.
Thanks for gettin Derek on YT again
They parodied that Ben Affleck scene in South Park. The episode where Jimmy and Cartman compete in the Special Olympics.
Those who take the time to think "risk / reward", cost of monthly testing,...don't actually have issues. Those who don't "think" will fill the jails and hospitals.
12:30 It’s the genie in a bottle concept, you get your wish granted but there’s always a catch
Both my children’s mothers had severe postpartum and both have ongoing personality and/or hormonal imbalances many many years later. Once I obtained the best hormonal stability through the carnivore diet and never have insulin’s spikes which never make me hangry, etc. all minor fluctuations gone, I’ve realized there is a lot we can do to control our hormones with diet. So if you start injecting yourself with chemicals that mess with your hormones, and you’re still lacking the discipline and control to control your diet… you are trying to take the easy fast shortcut to something you shouldn’t.. your going to regret it one way or another. I wouldn’t even do micro dose of TRT until you have depleted all options with your diet including the Carnivore diet for a year+ super strict, then Saladino version with some carbs if your working out and training weekly hardcore, and then and only then… if your testosterone still isn’t normal, and your 50+ years old, maybe … but I doubt you tried hard enough.. stop being lazy and taking shortcuts. You are giving yourself an excuse if you are geared out.
All of that stuff doesn't work when you have a tumor on your pituitary gland. Some people actually need TRT to survive.
@@Jimbo-fv4ek excuse me and the 1%-10% of people who need that that way. I meant everyone else on earth using it
Female with such said rumor... found it n went carn n now 65/30/5keto foe yrs.... what a convo
Breath of fresh air!! I hope all the young guys will listen to this.
I made great gains not knowing what I was doing and I was on 200mg Mexican test. I went from 165 to 200 pounds.
Years later I won my first light heavyweight and open overall title using 100mg oral winstrol a day for the past four weeks (it was all I could get at the time).
Moral of the story? You don’t need as much as you think.
You still doing your podcast?? Haven't been notified in some time now. Loved the layout
the 2 biggest side effects that apparently rarely people talk about are the extremely fast aging and the fact that your body deflates extremely fast once you stop taking them... sure you can keep a decent size but its no where near the size you had previously
@@SevenCostanza i said you can keep a decent size, never the original roided state that is impossible due to the lack of testosterone to maintain it
A bad side effect nobody talks about but is common is rising psa. My PSA went up when on trt. 100 mgs per week. 2 years in and My psa started rising. So I quit. I’m 62 with low test levels and just deal with it now. My urologist says it’s a pretty common side effect that the clinics don’t talk about.
@@PistolPete3322 if you don't mind me asking , what's PSA?
Testosterone doesnt "age: you, it masculinizes your face due to androgens. If you want to have a babyface Testosterone will get rid of it. So whats your trade off? you want to feel bad but have a babyface? or feel great and look more masculinized and "adult"
tbh people have way too much of an obsession with their looks. to an unhealthy degree
@@sammasic5849 prostate specific antigen. As your prostate grows it gives off more psa. It either grows due to age, streroid use or cancer. They use the test as a proxy to detect prostate cancer. I had an mri and it didn’t find any cancer so to continue trt my urologist wanted to do a biopsy. I didn’t do it knowing a rise in psa is common on trt. 3 months after quitting trt my psa went back to normal. My doctor hasn’t replied to anything since. Glad I didn’t get the biopsy.
Dangerous drug use should never be advertised. And we do that constantly.
Immagine that: randomly putting hormones in your body messes it up forever. Mindblowing i know.
That's why it SHOULDN'T be RANDOM.
the human body is actually very very good at maintaining or reestablishing homeostasis. There is no reason why any effect has to be "forever".
It just is. Does not matter what you think. You should not think world revolves around what you think more like. More realistic approach.
Now I know where the South Park scene where Jimmy beats his girlfriend and mom because he’s on steroids comes from. 😂😂
Right?! That was my first thought!
Zack: FOREIGN bros? Like European? 😂😂
Ikr, he made me double check it too.
I’m longtime watcher, I would appreciate if you posted the podcast on non-video format type sites full length before the clip drip feed. I understand the clip game and all that on YT, but I think that’s a different audience from who watches you audio-only.
Derek works with PKA guys for Lock’n’Load and they seem to treat the podcast uploads versus YT viewers separately. They upload their full podcast audio only on Spotify and Apple first, I believe, and then upload the YT release. They even go so far as to release their Patreon content audio only on those platforms and the video content is behind a paywall.
I don’t think you would lose much by uploading the content on those platforms as quickly as possible, as far as monetization or growth, is my sentiment.
I’ve stopped doing my podcast. Getting guests was damn near impossible. So Derek was in town and I wanted to get a conversation with him up for my YT audience.
@@zacktelander Dang, thanks for the heads up; I think another one of my favorite training podcasts ended out of the blue a year or two ago for what I’m assuming is the exact same reason so I don’t think it’s an uncommon problem.
@@zacktelanderdamn, sad to hear but you gotta do what works for you. Good luck with all the other stuff bro 👌🏾
Stronger by science does a podcast you may enjoy, it's on YT too. They are both lifetime naturals, one a powerlifter one a bodybuilder, they write MASS, which derives much of the YT content on other channels.
There's no winning either way. If The Rock came out and said he uses gear, and just listed all of the negatives, then people would be like, "Well why tf do you even use them then?" If he then said, "Well they help a bit but the negatives far outweigh the positives" then people wouldn't believe him (because that would make him a moron) or he'd be accused of downplaying how much he's benefited from using gear. And if he does the inverse, and says how much they've helped him while talking about the negatives somewhat, then he's glorifying steroids.
I think it just comes down to people's inherent belief systems. None of the staunchly natty guys are against steroids on a scientific or risk assessment level. Hell, a lot of them don't know shit about them or believe a lot of myths. They just have an inherent dislike of steroids and view them as cheating (which is fair). The kid who's asking about steroids has already thought about and most likely decided to use them. They just want to hear someone else's approval.
You should at least do mdma once Derek. Its pure bliss
That Affleck skit was golden 😂 he straight up kimbo sliced his girlfriend 😆
Girlfriend: "WHAT IS GOING ON WITH YOU??"
Boyfriend: *PUNCHES GIRLFRIEND IN FACE* 😂
It's not the answer she expected but it's the answer she deserved! ...😂
I only did a low dose test cycle....now I want to do it again and again and again.
A sub-optimised, lazy-ish casual guy experiencing testosterone levels of an alpha gladiator.... wouldn't suprise me. I'm sure it would be the same with MDMA or heroine for most, if they have never experienced such highs. I smoked weed for 10 years, and when you elevate your 'normal' for extended periods, anything less becomes sub-regular and feels lacking. Balance, my dude xxxx
I wanted to do it. But I noticed that many get puffy face and that’s not attractive at all.
@@kingcatx2and where are u going to buy legit pharma graded steroids?
Or are you gonna do "lab research" on the underground steroids u would buy from drug dealers that act like being a legit company?
I will say TRT companies, like the one Derek promotes, definitely have a mostly negative effect, even if his information on his channel is extremely helpful.
I have seen people on reddit who are average or slightly lower than average get instantly dosed 200mg of "TRT", no matter the age (I've seen a 16 year old with regular natty levels get prescribed lol), activity level, diet/body comp, etc. There's a reason why these companies are getting cracked down on by the FDA. Telemed during the pandemic has made this practice even worse. I'm also pretty sure these companies will sell anything they have on stock in any amount, as long as you're willing to pay.
Obviously TRT does help a lot of people but the amount of people who actually need it vs. the people who just want to take shortcuts or seek some sort of fleeting vanity is such a big difference.
Very sceptical of seemingly causeless "low testosterone" diagnoses with no related pathologies done beyond total t, free t & shbg. It doesn't just fall off a cliff once you hit the age of 35, you've just had the lifestyle of a Wall-E character for the last 15 years and lack the humility to slowly tackle and reverse the problem through your own actions.
Here in Australia it is much more strictly regulated and not prescribed very freely. I've been seeing an endocrinologist for appx. 1.5 years regarding a DSD (most likely MAIS) and am yet to be put onto any form of hormone treatment. Unfortunately my desire to be 230lbs lean doesn't speed up their process of testing, diagnosing and treating/managing.
Thats the whole point of dereks company, hes the one promoting not giving cookie cutter cycles, its not just something hes promoting, hes the owner
Agreed, dereks channel also gives people this glorified view of trt, which convinced my friend that trt is way better than natty (its not) to make gains;
looks like an average guy in the gym and now has to pin test for life at a very young age
@@perfor5376lol no it’s still a clinic, makes money the way other clinics do. Just because you like Derek doesn’t mean it’s any different.
I have a friend who told me his experience and it’s not any different from the clinics I’ve read about online. Do you think Derek is the one talking to you or doing your appointments?
Why are you talking about “cookie cutter cycles?” What does this even mean in the context of this conversation lol
@@nicholastartaglia4276 Its not that i like him, which i dont know him, im going off of his marketing for his clinic, hes always boasting about having qualified doctors, and cookie cutter is talking about the 200mg for trt no matter who you are, ive not had an experience in his clinic so, im going off the advertising
""Kick start it with a Dbol!"" EPIC
Good interview
Just found this channel, good stuff.
Drinking is a right of passage in the certian context, great social lubricant, pick your battles. But being mid 30s looking back, the 'lifestyle' does arrest your development. Sure can say had fun but would have preffered a more mature me getting into my career and family goals sooner.
Could have been married a little younger, kids a little younger, and prob got my business going sooner and been much better off for it if I wasn't distracted by being 'social' and going out a lot.
And if you had that you might instead be probably thinking you regret not having fun while you were young.
Probably you wouldn't even be the person you are now, who knows.
@@fmls8266 grass is greener effect
@@fmls8266 IF we had proper role models...
I tried Mico needling my scalp and nothing .
Older you knows that, younger you didn't, it's called growth and you had to go through it to know that
I regret taking all of the crazy drugs i did back when i was a teenager, but i don't regret the times i had whilst on them, which were some of the best times of my life.
Everything in moderation, maybe not PEDs because they are a cycle, it would be like me taking cocaine everyday for a month, its not good for you at all, even drinking daily isn't good for you.
Now i probably have 2-3bottles of beer per week, sometimes nothing.
I would honestly rather wake up feeling great and take myself off to the gym then get wasted on a Friday night and suffer the next day.
You suffer in the morning from drinking 2 or 3 beers?
@@LuGu1 You can't read. That's not what he said
@@LuGu1Slow tf down. You are not the quick witted guy that you think you are. Reading comprehension... maybe actually put in some effort 🙄😅
@@MrFINcredible Who cares what he said
My short stint in substance abuse led me to loose all my endurance and I didnt gain and muscle. Almost 10yrs later still struggling to get endurance back up to speed
Dude, that effect would have worn off pretty quickly. You're not struggling to get endurance back because you did a cycle 10yrs ago...not a chance.
Sounds like complete bullshit bud
@@stephenr85Probably not talking about steroids
Stop being lazy, go for a run, and sling some weights.
@@harleyzethmaybe, but weird to say "I didn't gain muscle" if it wasn't steroids, or to not give some indication of the substance category, and we can assume they weren't an elite athlete working in fringe performance territory because an elite would not say they lost "all" their endurance. I can't think of anything that would have this long-term effect, from alcohol to meth to opiates, if it's a short or even moderately long stint. There would have to be some pretty serious organ damage done in an unusually short time, and 10yrs clean is (way) more than enough. The human body is amazingly resilient.
My kid was interested. I told my 16 yr old to get to 25 before you even consider it. Workout hard for 10 years and max out your hard work and genetics and if you still want to do it then have at it. So far he’s listened and understands the side effects etc. The only way forward is education.
I used to say never! But now I get how a person could miss hitting constant PRs. It's addictive
lol Derrick described my first cycle to a T with the dbol front load into test
why does nobody talk about nootropics and their side effects? that's the next frontier
Any reason why the dangers of the birth control pills are never discussed? Guess, it must be the money involved.
My mind is absolutely blown Derek has just gone to his first concert. He's done so so many things I'll never be able to, but I've been going to shows forever! Wow!
You got me at hair loss. Definitely do not want to look like a bald bodybuilder with a head that overgrew from the HGH.
Less shampoo. Cheaper.
chat with Zack Telander about the use and problems with PEDs like Anabolic Steroids.
Get your gear here:
😃
My thing is about doing PEDs is "why?", youre plenty capable of gettting big and strong enough naturally. What is being more than that going to bring you?
If it can change your career (pro athlete, influencer) then sure. But if youre just a normal person who wants to br jacked, the natural way is fine.
the natural way is borring and has its limits. i trained for 10 years natural and the jump on gear was 100% worth it the thing is for some people "normal person" is borring
@@tougeattack123 well thats lot better than the kids who start doing gear as they sign up for gym membership. At least you got 10 years of experience under your belt first.
Well i do not agree. I Got very Big as natural after 7 years of natural bodybuilding, But you need to bring in peds if you want to be a good competitor. Why not do peds? Its safe if you know what to do.
A day natty is a day wasted
@@nicowins Well that took a quick turn xD
@@nicowins you got very big. That's great. If you want to compete than that's a different issue but there's a lot juicers who do not
steroids aren't really the issue - its the rampant narcissism and body dysmorphia that our culture is producing and rewarding. Its worse for (straight) guys cuz they don't want to talk about it...this video really demonstrated that. I don't watch Derek, but seems like a guy who may have struggled with it.
Um… I’d like to know where you bought that button up sweater.
MDMA/LSD/Mushrooms are all fantastic compounds, and they dont always give one "whisky dik" its all in the dose, and please test your substances before consuming. its 2023 and you can't take that risk anymore. be safe, always remember you can always take more. have fun
What about secretagogues like MK 677 Cardarine?
where can i find the full episode?
I got on at 35 after my best friend died, i just didn't care about health anymore
Yo anyone knows what's that shirt/jacket Derek is wearing? Looks dope
You can find it at hipster central Canada
Looks like the Outerknown Cloud Weave shirt
@@ejc5105 looks close thanks, you put me in right direction but turns out it's just a youngla flannel jacket
Does anyone know what coat derek is wearing i want one
My best powerlifting total was off a test deca dbol cycle. Dick worked perfectly fine
At least he's honest
I saw the ben affleck movie, and it was so hilarious. I laughed at it in school while watching it. That movie was fucking wild
Can anybody explain how 40mg Cialis is doable w/o a massive headache?
Asking for a friend
Why do you need 40mg?
I regret not getting into PEDs when I was younger. I missed out on years of peak athletic performance
Edit: what I mean is that there is a lot more that I could have done with enhancement. I think about all of the challenges I didn’t do because my body was broken or because I was sick, and I know that it would be different if I was using PEDs
😂
bruh same
haha
@@JedrzejJankowski ?
@@emilioherrera568 ?
Never got ED from gear or test deca dbol.
Ben Affleck Movie Clip From A Body To Die For (1994)
man that sucks. 40mg of C and nothing happened for derek. he needed a mirror not a naked lady
Thats why u do test npp turinabol. Str8 lean masss not michelean man
"A body to die for".. that movie got a lot of people thinking about steroids... taking them that is lol
Comment section full of guys who want to do gear and so they stalk Derek online obsessing over a safe way to take steroids but since they can't convince them selves to do it so they try to comfort themselves by commenting self righteous bull crap.
Whys his lips so red ngl whats up with that ?
He's got dry skin thanks to roacutaine.
@@anaussie213 okay thanks
Derek rarely posts now. His business took off and now he's seldom seen
Good for him though his content isn’t that great. And when he does post they’re impactful videos.
Its very annoying when his vids keep popping up in my feed, even when im not subbed, and its just his content from years ago
Ironic! lol… affleck seemed pretty skinny and natural until his middle age when he geared up for Batman etc.
Were can i find the full pod?
Low doses used responsibly is possible, but there are still risks.
Thanks doc
Yes that was a movie that ben aflek did, to promote the idea that steroid were bad! Actually good film.
I did a cycle of test(half cc a week)when I was in the Air Force stationed in Incirlik, Turkey back in 1986. I got the advice from the big guy walking around base with a huge ghetto blaster on his shoulder. He told me the doc's name in downtown Adana and I went there regularly for about two and half months. The doc did warn me about liver damage.
Anyway, I had already been working out for 2 years but the test took me to a whole nother' level immediately. I remember telling the doc this it my last visit and he said "smart boy" I was way too young and 500 mg was insane for me.
I'd say to anybody age 30-50 workout hard for 2 years before trying a 3 month cycle of 100mg every 5 days.. then cycle off for 3 months. If that isn't great then do another cycle, this time with 200mg every 5 days. My best guess is this would work very well for 75% of the guys who try this.
Ask him about the Federal Reserve and his opinion on if rate hikes will end??
How about the presidents that fought against Central Banking because they knew what it would do and then Christmas Eve 1913 when no one's paying attention the Federal Reserve becomes a thing and in 1914 income tax is written into the Constitution as law. It doesn't matter what anybody's opinion is, it doesn't change facts that we've been robbed into slavery
Those rate hikes and everything else they do are just smoke and mirrors, like QE being a fancy phrase for legalized counterfeiting but they don't nearly do it as bad as the banks
As (probably) one of the OLDEST (if not THE oldest) subscriber of this channel (going back to Zack's A & M years) ) I feel that I must push back on the overall demeanor of this entire conversation. Seeing 2 young guys (in 30's) banter about all the drugs they've done and then acting as IF they won't be affected over their Lifespan is simply a denial of REALITY! As someone from a Medical background I am shocked there is no mention made of the long term effects on the liver, pancreas and other internal organs. While I do hope / pray that Derek will not experience any effects once he's into his 50's and above, I can tell you that as a forever "nattie" lifter now aged 61 (and still competing) I have a total T level of 639, so there IS a way for older men to maintain (and possibly increase) their T (free and total T) WITHOUT any drugs whatsoever. The fact that you guys are just laughing it up about all the different drugs dilutes the seriousness of the abusive actions in many strength sports today. When you are young and "fearless" everything seems wonderful but JUST wait a few years (decades) and THEN you will see how all that past actions have affected both Lifespan and Healthspan. When Derek was on with Peter Attia it was a totally different vibe - and only time will tell how Derek's (and other users) health will be affected.
I agree...as soon as you start seeing guys in their late 40s/early 50s depressed, overweight with ED, on BP and cholesterol pills and heart big enough for safari mammal, you realize its a short-term lifestyle with the real price-tag coming years down the road...
@@5hydroxyT Exactly right! I've already BEEN through my 40's and 50's now, and while I have definitely experienced my "ups and downs" in Life, I HAVE NEVER let myself stop moving / lifting / running / swimming for an extended period. While I did (and still do!) want to get better / faster / stronger to compete as an athlete, I would never have even considered putting something into my body (even for short term gain) that I would not know how it MAY affect my Life in the future! As it is, nearly every day we hear / read about different chemicals / agents / additives in our drinking water, food and even our cookware (such as these "forvever" chemicals that appear to be in the bloodstreams of 85% of Americans now!) I cannot understand WHY a young man would inject something into his body that he has NO definite idea as to what it may do to him down the road! Making light of this (as in this conversation) is almost akin to encouragement for the younger generation. Sorry to be so extreme, but to me this subject is SERIOUS business and should not be made "light of" - even comically!
You guys know testosterone was synthesised in 1935, right? You’re acting like Derrick invented steroids
@@HkFinn83 1931 actually...by a Romanian first.
Thats not at all what they said, you clearly didn't listen to the video before wiring this asinine comment
3:00 made me cry laugh
D BOL is super fun though 😁
Zak will always look like a candlestick.
🏆🏆🏆🕯️🕯️🕯️🏆🏆🏆
It's all good bro! You still have your nuts!!!
@daveh71 I'm no candlestick...why do you think I'm hating? He's got his balls vs a steroid user having no balls. Zak would out lift me in all the lifts. He's good at what he does. I can't call him a candlestick? Lol. So sensitive!
This was hilarious
DARE was a crash course in irony.
Derek: but you’ll gain lots of size…. Cuts to no excuses just improve
Guess I’m off to run that cycle
No excuses
Just enhance
I dunno what it is but derek seems off like I dunno if he’s looking older, gained weight or what but it seems diff
Yea if you have a serious hormonal imbalance, especially low estrogen, it won’t matter how much viagra/Cialis you take, you will not be physically able to get aroused
Pandora's box is open. Might as well include instructions.
I guess I’m lucky. I so much as look at a pair of barbells and I gain muscle. Feel for the poor guys who feel forced to take these unnatural shortcuts. It is possible to do it naturally. U just need some patience
I feel like you're looking younger for some reason
Fresh shave and he's leaned out lately
It could be because he seems happier, maybe? I know nothing of Zack’s life beyond what he posts, but he’s mentioned that he’s enjoying his music a lot more lately, which is probably very fulfilling. I’ve often noticed that being happy makes people look younger. My apologies to Zack if I’m talking out of line.
but you will gain lots of size
A comfortable try dose🤣🤣way to downplay that in a young person
you know what sucks? my weak ass got gyno in 7th grade for no fuckin reason and i just have to deal with this ugly ass chest and i'm not even jacked. i'm 28 now btw.
Go get surgery , you are a grown man save up money on the side and get it off.
Unless you'd rather spend your money chasing around whor3s that had 59 dudes in them before you.
Get surgery
Lol all the bad things he went through I learned about in DARE
Derek actually did react to this already. Like 2 years ago. He must’ve forgot be did a video about it lol understandable tho 3:23
Is it just me or has Derek's mouth changed?
No, he doesn't. It made him wealthy beyond his imagination
I had never seen the Ben Affleck video. I want to do steroids now. Thank you
2 types of guys, the ones that take stuff for their penis to grow, and the ones that take stuff for their muscles. Both come down to insecurities as professional body builders usually get big before going on sauce. Guys need to grow balls and go out there naked and start building authentic social relationshipss
Most men can't have children on TRT, so everyone has to come off at some point.
Alcohol is a really poor analogy in this case
Insert whatever risky thing then. The point remains true. If someone says “understand the risks” when they themselves have taken steroids and have garnered incredible success, then a 20 something year old kid is going to say that he has assessed the risks when in reality he is just wanting that success.
I took ldg 4033 didn’t do a good job on my pct I don’t get horny at all anymore
🔥
The guys a millionaire. No regrets