Finding the Sacred - Elizabeth Oldfield | Maiden Mother Matriarch 91
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- 📰 Subscribe to Maiden Mother Matriarch here to listen to full extended episodes: louiseperry.substack.com
My guest today is Elizabeth Oldfield, host of 'The Sacred' podcast and author of a new book, 'Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times.' We spoke about the attraction of charismatic Christianity, the ways in which Christianity works in both a feminine and a masculine register, and the joys and challenges of living in intentional communities.
In the extended part of the episode, we also spoke about the culture wars and interpreting the Bible through a political lens.
02:11 Elizabeth’s Christian journey
06:00 Building a relationship with the Bible
08:20 Intellectual vs emotional introduction to Christianity
11:38 Is there a Christian revival?
17:17 In defence of contemporary worship
21:28 Feminine and masculine register in faith
26:18 Different religious lobes
28:00 Meditation and individualism
32:05 Co-living and extended family living
39:00 Quaker tradition and conflict negotiation
47:13 Childrearing and religion
MMM is sponsored by 321 - a new online introduction to Christianity, presented by former MMM guest Glen Scrivener. Check it out for free at 321course.com/MMM. Just enter your email, choose a password and you’re in - there’s no spam and no fees.
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📰Subscribe to Maiden Mother Matriarch here to listen to full extended episodes: louiseperry.substack.com
Paul Vanderklay sent me here
Another step closer to a Paul vanderklay convo
haha yes!
If not in this life, then In the next. "But I am rooting for sooner rather than later.
I disagree that there is a dichotomy between an emotional/imaginative/feminine response to the Christian God and a rational/intellectual/masculine response. The best response to the Christian God isn’t EITHER ‘emotional’ OR ‘intellectual’, it is BOTH AND! The best response is embodied as the soul and body are one. It’s very ‘left brain’ to separate the response into a simplistic EITHER/OR dichotomy. An ‘aesthetic response’ (so to speak) to beauty, truth and love is deeply emotional AND intellectual. In other words, there is a rationality of feeling.
Isn’t that what Oldfield expressed as the goal?
I definitely think they were saying that certain personalities and experiences lean towards one or the other. They weren't saying that you only get one or the other.
@@timdecious9386 maybe you missed my point that ‘the experience’ can’t be deconstructed into two separate parts that one can lean towards either way? When experiencing God on a transcendent level the emotional IS rational and the rational IS emotional.
I grew up in a very stoic Church environment and recently I've been researching Catholicism which has this robust structure that probably appeals to men more than women. I finally visited a Catholic Church and found it to be very emotion driven and I don't mean that negatively. They would kneel, put their hands up, chant sometimes, cross their hearts before sitting. This was all new to me because growing up our service was like a Bible study, studying the original Greek, stuff like that lol. I'm surprised people view Catholicism like a strict uncharismatic Church.
“If you cannot bare 4-chord worship music” - EO
I’m stealing that amazing turn of phrase : )
Nice conversation
Great conversation! Seems to me that intentional communities are prioritizing resiliency over efficiency and I see that trend spreading throughout the West as the economic and social condition become more unstable and tumultuous
In the Australia in the 1970s there were lots of communes, ranging from Christian to free love. The better ones continue to exist.
We currently have a housing crisis, which combined with high crime and low social cohesion, sometimes makes it difficult for young couples to have families.
Recently I saw an old club house with several acres of sporting fields for sale. I pictured fifteen or so families living in prefabricated three and four bedroom homes, with shared vegetable gardens and play grounds. The clubhouse could be a community hub.
Being privately owned the community could decide who to allow to join, criminal history checks, religion etc.
Beautiful conversation. Thank you for introducing me to Elizabeth Oldfield. I could listen to the two of you talk for hours. I do want to comment that she slightly mischaracterized Rod Dreher’s Benedict Option as a run-for-the-hills withdrawal. As an Orthodox (often snobby) Christian, it opened my heart to a wider range of belief and practice that we can experience.
Dear Lord,
Give us all the ability to start again on a blank sheet of paper.
Amen.
Lovely conversation. Thank you. The music of Margaret (Complete chants) paints my house anew ... With joy, delight, outpouring love and whole body response ... And,yet/ also, I am definitely a contemplative lover of that LOVE. 🙂↕️
Margaret Rizza
Y’all should both try to have on Brooke Frazier/Lighterwood on your pods!
At first I thought you said "Early Christians didn't sing hyms!", and immediately I thought "Haven't you read the Gospel of Mark? Jesus and his disciples sang hyms after they took the first Eucharist in the upper room!" But I wanted to be sure I heard you right, so I rewound the tape and listened more carefully to what you said, and you said: "...'Victorian' hyms!" I thought then I was wrong in my initial interpretation of what you meant, but when I really think about it now, I think I got you right the first time. When I first read that part about Jesus singing hyms together with the disciples at the end of the book of Mark, I smiled to myself because I felt their humble humanity, way back then in that dimly lit room. I recognised it.
Yay! I have wanted a talk between u both ❤
Awesome convo!
Ahhh been hoping for this combo! Your hair looks gorgeous Louise 😊
There's a deep emotional element within TLM, but it's not emotion first, doctrine latter, but it's an emotion that comes with the ever growing understanding of the misteries presented in the Holy Liturgy.
19:39 In Christ, extremes come together: the king washes feet, the cross is a symbol of hope, little children are welcomed by the wise teacher..."I am the Alpha and the Omega..."
Suffer the children, bring them to me.
As a child I misunderstood this phrase, now that I understand it, it is beautiful.
One,holy,apostolic Catholic Church
Acts 2-42 captures how early Christians professed and celebrated their Faith - the Didache, the teaching of the twelve Apostles, is also particularly instructive in this area.
Could all this be because you are protestant or from a protestant country? Our priest will read the sciptures singing monotone on Triduo Pascual etc and we have the girls with their guitars on Tiempo Ordinario. If you want choir music, then you have to go to the cathederal but ¡¡¡flip in heck it's superb!!!
For the hyper-modern scientific minded person in the age of things like the the Higgs Bosun I find one of the best descriptions of religion as an interaction with the divine in the spiritual dimension is that of a Field Interaction.
(You can't just wave a radio antenna or adjust your telescope or microscope & declare the Higgs Bosun not to exist because you didn't see it).
33:18 Wonderful, even everyone in my very large religious family deeply, reflexively & unquestioningly balk at going against Atlantic individualism in this way, despite all the many, obvious practical secular benefits.
🔥🔥🔥🔥
Absolutely agree that there’s a dichotomy between quiet, contemplative, silent, still, inner, meditative worship on the one hand, and loud, emotional, hands in the air, outer, collective, exuberant worship on the other.
Home recorded a song and video one evening years ago to talk about the fact that I don’t really know what to do about this dichotomy:
th-cam.com/video/DzmJV5vkdTE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Z9Rwn4G3pUH2B7hu
12:38 I would not call this a vanity, but rather people are expressing that some forms of worship to God that are inadequate. Given that God doesn't like improper worship of himself in the Old Testament, this is a perfectly rational position to take within the Christian framework.
As a Catholic, I affirm Catholicism as the absolute truth revealed by God. I believe that Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church and gave the authority to oversee his kingdom to the bishops and Peter as the overseer of the bishops. For me, going into a protestant church is like watching obscene pornography because I am watching people try and copy the sacrificial nature of Christ in the Eucharist at mass, but the protestants were never given the authority by Christ to do so.
Even worse are churches that just toss out the sacrificial nature of the Lord's supper entirely. I then have a hard time even calling these communities Christian because they are essentially ignoring thousands of years of Christians saying this is how you properly worship God, and then they just don't do it. At that point, it doesn't even feel like I am in the same religion as a protestant.
35:49
sounds like theyre employing gottmans techniques. thats awesome
❤❤🌹💋💋
Why not have Lawrence Acton on who recently discussed your pro natalist biases?
I was a Christian and liked a lot about it. As a philosophy it`s good but as soon as you put the supernatural in it i`m gone
You worried that it’s haunted? ;)
@@NerdlySquared I worry about people who think things can be haunted mate😁
I'm curious how you dealt with the resurrection when you were a Christian? Sometimes the supernatural finds you. I had been an Anglican. But by my teens I was an atheist, only attending church for baptisms and weddings. But when my grandfather passed away I was comforted by a white light I could only conclude was the Holy Spirit.
@@grannyannie2948 I believed in it whole heartedly when i was in the fold then science and reality intervened and i ditched magic thinking mate
@@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf Thanks for the reply. I always felt a bodily resurrection creepier than a spiritual one. But the only science I liked was geology. Cheers it's beer time here.
Enculturation, genotype, phenotype, mass formation psychosis, societal decline. I'll let someone else stitch together the different threads of my comment today.
(And make sure it 'feels true' in a 'feminine' way).
Art 😜
Gender ideology is a dogma.
Christianity is a dogma.
Overly emotional people are vulnerable to dogmas.
The fact that Louise isn't clear about her relationship to dogma means I have to take her less seriously.
no one is asking you to take her seriously... cos who are you any ways? 😂 i saw her at talk in the UK and the house was packed. Louise is doing just fine without randos like you tbh
You’re very dogmatic about that aren’t you🤣😂. Your own ideology has its own dogmas, Lol
@InstantDesign
All human consiousness systems rest on a dogma, faith, premise; overly rationalistic people are often vulnerable to rejecting the conclusions of uncompromising scepticism.
When people high horse down their rationalist noses & don't acknowledge the impenetrable background doubt of all human knowledge, that decision of how to live makes it very hard to take them seriously.
I like dogs 🐕
Are your assertions dogmatic?