This is one of my Imperial Ordnance plans. I call it Rock It All Night: "Redline" - TIE Punisher 44 Fire-Control System 3 Cluster Missiles 5 Skilled Bombardier 2 Bomblet Generator 5 Ship Total: 59 Major Vynder - Alpha-Class Star Wing 41 Marksmanship 1 Fire-Control System 3 Cluster Missiles 5 Advanced SLAM 3 Os-1 Arsenal Loadout 0 Ship Total: 53 Captain Jonus - TIE Bomber 36 Marksmanship 1 Barrage Rockets 6 Ship Total: 43 Tomax Bren - TIE Bomber 34 Crack Shot 1 Barrage Rockets 6 Seismic Charges 3 Ship Total: 44 199/200 If I can keep everyone within r1 of Jonus it's going to be a fun opening salvo
I mentioned it briefly in the next video. I left it out here because it really was a failed first attempt at fixing munitions. I usually have to stop myself from going into too much detail lest these videos become longer than they already are. :P
I'm excited for 2.0 dropping in about a week but have a question regarding the equipment you use. Was wondering what type of mic and camera you use to record with?
@@HairyNick no idea what any of that is. Ill have to look it up a bit but thanks for letting me know. Also I know youve done a few batrep videos. What kind of camera did you use for those?
Yea, love the distinction now between missiles and torpedoes, and that neither is clearly better than the other. Have long favored missiles over torps, barely looking at torps when building any list (to include pre-Harpoon era). Has been a mindset I have been slow to break out of. But yes, both feel good now at doing what they are now designed to do, which are aptly described as 'blunt objects' and 'answers'. FFG did well with this.
Quinn Jast with Prockets or Adv. Prots as a flanker. Nearly as good as Quinn Jast with HLC or IC and Afterburner for flanking (Afterburner makes the zoom in Boom and Zoom more zoomy for the Scyk regardless of Jast's stress level, though you'll need to gain space to recharge the afterburner after the second attack pass).
I just played 2.0 for the first time tonight and torpedoes and missiles were the deciding factor of the game but at no point in time did they feel oppressive like harpoon missiles. I’m excited to see what new missiles and torpedoes they add in future waves of ships.
I have to agree about homing missiles I don't really like them on most list. That said. 7 headhunters with homing missiles seems kinda fun. it's ether a dead ace, multiple dead parts of a swarm or a extremely hurt large ship in the first volley. Doubt it will be the best list out there but still a threat.
Watching this video made me realized .... i didnt had an ordenence list ... until now. Idk how this archtype tranfers in 2.0. Joustero (200) Captain Jostero - Kihraxz Fighter 43 Homing Missiles 3 Ship Total: 46 Captain Nym - Scurrg H-6 Bomber 52 Proton Bombs 5 Havoc 4 Trajectory Simulator 3 "Genius" 0 Ship Total: 64 Emon Azzameen - Firespray-31 76 Cad Bane 4 Proton Bombs 5 Marauder 3 Skilled Bombardier 2 Ship Total: 90 Im not gonna lie, i didnt ran this list a whole lot, its a list my wife and i sat down to build for her. But i see whats she is going for. In 1.0, the only scum list she raned was jaustero. I agree with not running the kimogila because of the loss of harpoons, so i like the switch she made. This isn't my style so i might miss something that work better. Let us know what we can do to tweek it better :)
Excellent lesson captain my captain! I think homing missiles will be best used for immediately switching off stealth device yeah? As it says the attack is treated as hitting. Plus if you want to run a swarmy list where you first fire a homing missile to damage the intended target so you other ties who trigger off of attacking or defending against a damaged ship, can go to work right away. Also Barrage Rockets look like a good option for a Star wing or Tie Bomber when using saturation salvo. I really hope cruise missiles return as they were a great example as a gain a reward for flying right. Thoughts?
Stealth device in 2.0 requires that the ship it is on takes damage not just to be hit. A player running stealth device will most likely choose that you roll the 4 dice against them and bank on their green dice countering what ever hits or crits result instead of just giving up the extra defense die that SD grants. Depending on what it is mounted on, the range to the SD equipped defender from the attacker and if there are obstacles or obscuring friendly (to the SD equipped vessel) ships with tactical scramblers equipped the SD equipped ship can roll upwards of 6 green dice (TIE Fighter 3 dice, Stealth Device +1 die, Range 3 +1 die, Obstacle between +1 die). Talonbane Cobra with Cloaking Device active and Stealth Device, if ships with Tactical Scrambler and obstacles don't stack with each other for adding green dice (this is something that is not 100% clear in the rules or rules reference), gets 2 from the Khiraxz's agility, +2 from being cloaked, +1 for range 3, +1 from his pilot ability for being at range 3, +1 from having a friendly ship with Tac Scram or obstacle between his attacker for a total of 7. If Tac Scram and normal obstacles stack but you can't stack multiple Tac Scram bonuses this ups to 8. If you can have multiple Tac Scram bonuses stack along with obstacles then you could end up with 10 green dice on Talonbane. Homing missile still looking like a Stealth Device off switch?
I think in most cases a ship with Stealth Device is Agility 3 to begin with and aiming to be hidden in obstacles.. So they are rolling an additional dice there. However, if they are not modifying with both an Evade and Focus (and your Homing Missile does have double modifications), then it is somewhat risky trying to jag a full evade from the dice if you can paint two Homing Missiles on to them... If the defending ship starts with no shields, any criticals also matter. Stealth Device is lost on any damage result. Barrage Rockets with Saturation Salvo are good against pretty much everything, but when mass Bombers team up with Captain Jonus it becomes just a little bit disgusting.
Great video! One question though....what is the timing of the concussion missiles ability? Can it flip one card it inflicted in the same attack, or just one card if the enemy ship already had one in the first place?
I am not so sure: The timing for determining whether an attack hits is at the end of the Neutralise Results step, not the Deal Damage step. However, the wording for Deal Damage says "If the Attack Hits" and Concussion Missiles state "After this attack hits"... The question is whether the phrase "If the Attack Hits" activates prior to "After the Attack Hits", given that being Hit is determined in the phase prior to the "If the Attack Hits" statement. I think it is somewhat ambiguous and will need clarification. I am erring on the side of Concussion turning damage it dealt face up, but it is not a strictly strong argument.
One of my favorite lists in 1.0 (came in second at a 36 man regional) was 4x Barron of the empire, with chips, crack shot, title, concussion missiles. Now the Prototype title is gone, and that was a huge factor in its effectiveness (target lock and a evade to stay alive). no matter how I try to build the inquisitor with instinctive aim I can't get anything anywhere close to that list (both in damage output and defense). Maybe its just not the roll of the prototype to be a missile carrier in 2.0 but i am sad to see the list go. Anyone have any ideas i am missing? Closest i have come ins 4x barrons with Crack shot, Proton rockets, collision detector. But my guess is its really very hard to get it to work.
I really don't think carrying missiles is what the ship wants to be doing. The pilots all seem to be leaning into Ace strategies, with heavy action economies. Force upgrades on 3 of 4 pilots is a real push in this direction, in my opinion.
I think things like Harpoon Missiles and TLTs are very dangerous waters, and FFG knows that. It would have to be super trimmed down versions of those if we ever see them again.
I just want to see them because they exist in universe. They could bring them down to the same level as the other turrets and missiles but make their function unique to add more variability and list/gameplay options.
First, good video, both the history of munitions and the crazy swings is pretty wild. I remember how much changed when they introduced Guidance Chips. Second, I have to say that all ion weapons (with the exception of Ion Torpedoes) are pretty much trash in second edition. By percent you are only going to hit for 1 token on a low defence ship, and never on an ace due to the first damage being just that damage. I understand that with less token stacking there is the possibility getting more hits, but the point of ions is control, and with needing three successful shots to activate it on a large ship, you might as well go for one of the other controls that is both cheaper and has better consistency. I think we will see more tractor beam and even jamming with the cost being so much better.
While I agree they will Ionize in 1 shot less of the time, I think it's important to remember that they are priced aggressively, and you do get multiple shots out of them. I think in groups, Ion weapons are going to be nasty.
@@HairyNick looking at pulse missiles, yeah they give you three dice, but only three shots, they can only ever deal a single damage, and you have to score two hits to get token out (unlike every other control). You can almost guarantee that that they at most will deal two ion tokens per game if fired at a low agility ship(1 or 0), and those odds drop significantly when dealing with 3 agility ships. Additionally, the inconsistent nature would require three ships to have arc at the same time to have a chance at multi hit shots and I would rather have extra damage if i am dealing with an ace at that point. When I look at this and ion cannons I feel like this is set up to cause a bad experience for new unexperienced players who end up in multiple arcs, while being basically unusable in tournaments. Walk me off the edge Nick!
![เปิดบ้าน นาราเครปกระเทย 1 ไร่ ขายขาดทุนหลัก10ล้าน เอามาใช้หนี้!!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0jz84VFWVP4/mqdefault.jpg)
This is one of my Imperial Ordnance plans. I call it Rock It All Night:
"Redline" - TIE Punisher 44
Fire-Control System 3
Cluster Missiles 5
Skilled Bombardier 2
Bomblet Generator 5
Ship Total: 59
Major Vynder - Alpha-Class Star Wing 41
Marksmanship 1
Fire-Control System 3
Cluster Missiles 5
Advanced SLAM 3
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout 0
Ship Total: 53
Captain Jonus - TIE Bomber 36
Marksmanship 1
Barrage Rockets 6
Ship Total: 43
Tomax Bren - TIE Bomber 34
Crack Shot 1
Barrage Rockets 6
Seismic Charges 3
Ship Total: 44
199/200 If I can keep everyone within r1 of Jonus it's going to be a fun opening salvo
learning x-wing is always fun
Very good comparison. You forgot to talk about the introduction of the card: munition failsafe.
I mentioned it briefly in the next video. I left it out here because it really was a failed first attempt at fixing munitions. I usually have to stop myself from going into too much detail lest these videos become longer than they already are. :P
I'm excited for 2.0 dropping in about a week but have a question regarding the equipment you use. Was wondering what type of mic and camera you use to record with?
I use a Blue Yetti Blackout mic, and an Elgato Camlink plugged into a Panasonic G7 for my Webcam.
@@HairyNick no idea what any of that is. Ill have to look it up a bit but thanks for letting me know. Also I know youve done a few batrep videos. What kind of camera did you use for those?
Yea, love the distinction now between missiles and torpedoes, and that neither is clearly better than the other. Have long favored missiles over torps, barely looking at torps when building any list (to include pre-Harpoon era). Has been a mindset I have been slow to break out of. But yes, both feel good now at doing what they are now designed to do, which are aptly described as 'blunt objects' and 'answers'. FFG did well with this.
Quinn Jast with Prockets or Adv. Prots as a flanker. Nearly as good as Quinn Jast with HLC or IC and Afterburner for flanking (Afterburner makes the zoom in Boom and Zoom more zoomy for the Scyk regardless of Jast's stress level, though you'll need to gain space to recharge the afterburner after the second attack pass).
I just played 2.0 for the first time tonight and torpedoes and missiles were the deciding factor of the game but at no point in time did they feel oppressive like harpoon missiles. I’m excited to see what new missiles and torpedoes they add in future waves of ships.
Good to hear. :)
It's ordnance. Ordinance is like a regulation or law. Just my A-hole moment for the day!
Alpha strike (200pts)
(63) Rogue Squadron Escort
(9) Proton Torpedoes
(3) R3 Astromech
Points 75
(63) Rogue Squadron Escort
(9) Proton Torpedoes
(3) R3 Astromech
Points 75
(38) Roark Garnet
(12) Moldy Crow
Points 50
I have to agree about homing missiles I don't really like them on most list. That said. 7 headhunters with homing missiles seems kinda fun. it's ether a dead ace, multiple dead parts of a swarm or a extremely hurt large ship in the first volley. Doubt it will be the best list out there but still a threat.
Watching this video made me realized .... i didnt had an ordenence list ... until now. Idk how this archtype tranfers in 2.0.
Joustero (200)
Captain Jostero - Kihraxz Fighter 43
Homing Missiles 3
Ship Total: 46
Captain Nym - Scurrg H-6 Bomber 52
Proton Bombs 5
Havoc 4
Trajectory Simulator 3
"Genius" 0
Ship Total: 64
Emon Azzameen - Firespray-31 76
Cad Bane 4
Proton Bombs 5
Marauder 3
Skilled Bombardier 2
Ship Total: 90
Im not gonna lie, i didnt ran this list a whole lot, its a list my wife and i sat down to build for her. But i see whats she is going for. In 1.0, the only scum list she raned was jaustero.
I agree with not running the kimogila because of the loss of harpoons, so i like the switch she made.
This isn't my style so i might miss something that work better. Let us know what we can do to tweek it better :)
Amazing and interesting vid! Love the new torpedos!
Thankyou! :)
Excellent lesson captain my captain!
I think homing missiles will be best used for immediately switching off stealth device yeah? As it says the attack is treated as hitting. Plus if you want to run a swarmy list where you first fire a homing missile to damage the intended target so you other ties who trigger off of attacking or defending against a damaged ship, can go to work right away.
Also Barrage Rockets look like a good option for a Star wing or Tie Bomber when using saturation salvo. I really hope cruise missiles return as they were a great example as a gain a reward for flying right. Thoughts?
Stealth device in 2.0 requires that the ship it is on takes damage not just to be hit. A player running stealth device will most likely choose that you roll the 4 dice against them and bank on their green dice countering what ever hits or crits result instead of just giving up the extra defense die that SD grants. Depending on what it is mounted on, the range to the SD equipped defender from the attacker and if there are obstacles or obscuring friendly (to the SD equipped vessel) ships with tactical scramblers equipped the SD equipped ship can roll upwards of 6 green dice (TIE Fighter 3 dice, Stealth Device +1 die, Range 3 +1 die, Obstacle between +1 die). Talonbane Cobra with Cloaking Device active and Stealth Device, if ships with Tactical Scrambler and obstacles don't stack with each other for adding green dice (this is something that is not 100% clear in the rules or rules reference), gets 2 from the Khiraxz's agility, +2 from being cloaked, +1 for range 3, +1 from his pilot ability for being at range 3, +1 from having a friendly ship with Tac Scram or obstacle between his attacker for a total of 7. If Tac Scram and normal obstacles stack but you can't stack multiple Tac Scram bonuses this ups to 8. If you can have multiple Tac Scram bonuses stack along with obstacles then you could end up with 10 green dice on Talonbane. Homing missile still looking like a Stealth Device off switch?
I think in most cases a ship with Stealth Device is Agility 3 to begin with and aiming to be hidden in obstacles.. So they are rolling an additional dice there. However, if they are not modifying with both an Evade and Focus (and your Homing Missile does have double modifications), then it is somewhat risky trying to jag a full evade from the dice if you can paint two Homing Missiles on to them... If the defending ship starts with no shields, any criticals also matter.
Stealth Device is lost on any damage result.
Barrage Rockets with Saturation Salvo are good against pretty much everything, but when mass Bombers team up with Captain Jonus it becomes just a little bit disgusting.
Great video! One question though....what is the timing of the concussion missiles ability? Can it flip one card it inflicted in the same attack, or just one card if the enemy ship already had one in the first place?
It's says on the card that you turn the damage cards "after this attack hits", so i believe you can turn up damage cards dealt by this attack...
Shataraterevar thanks for your answer. that was my understanding as well, but I wanted to make sure 👍
I am not so sure:
The timing for determining whether an attack hits is at the end of the Neutralise Results step, not the Deal Damage step.
However, the wording for Deal Damage says "If the Attack Hits" and Concussion Missiles state "After this attack hits"...
The question is whether the phrase "If the Attack Hits" activates prior to "After the Attack Hits", given that being Hit is determined in the phase prior to the "If the Attack Hits" statement.
I think it is somewhat ambiguous and will need clarification.
I am erring on the side of Concussion turning damage it dealt face up, but it is not a strictly strong argument.
Travis yeah, I guess only time will tell. So far I could not find any official clarification. Thanks for your input! 👍
Ah YES I waited for a video just like that! going into the details on ordonance... grrrrrrrrreeeat!!!
Z Swarm using ion missiles
Hunter/Killer (200)
Bandit Squadron Pilot -
Z-95 Headhunter 23
Ion Missiles 4
Ship Total: 27
Bandit Squadron Pilot -
Z-95 Headhunter 23
Ship Total: 23
Bandit Squadron Pilot -
Z-95 Headhunter 23
Ion Missiles 4
Ship Total: 27
Bandit Squadron Pilot -
Z-95 Headhunter 23
Ship Total: 23
Bandit Squadron Pilot -
Z-95 Headhunter 23
Ion Missiles 4
Ship Total: 27
Bandit Squadron Pilot -
Z-95 Headhunter 23
Ship Total: 23
Bandit Squadron Pilot -
Z-95 Headhunter 23
Ion Missiles 4
Ship Total: 27
Bandit Squadron Pilot -
Z-95 Headhunter 23
Ship Total: 23
One of my favorite lists in 1.0 (came in second at a 36 man regional) was 4x Barron of the empire, with chips, crack shot, title, concussion missiles.
Now the Prototype title is gone, and that was a huge factor in its effectiveness (target lock and a evade to stay alive). no matter how I try to build the inquisitor with instinctive aim I can't get anything anywhere close to that list (both in damage output and defense). Maybe its just not the roll of the prototype to be a missile carrier in 2.0 but i am sad to see the list go. Anyone have any ideas i am missing?
Closest i have come ins 4x barrons with Crack shot, Proton rockets, collision detector. But my guess is its really very hard to get it to work.
I really don't think carrying missiles is what the ship wants to be doing. The pilots all seem to be leaning into Ace strategies, with heavy action economies. Force upgrades on 3 of 4 pilots is a real push in this direction, in my opinion.
I think you are correct, sad to see my 2 favorite lists dead in 2.0 (5x mangler M3a's) but change is good and overall i am very excited for 2.0
Great video. Great channel!
Thanks! :D
As they exist in canon do you think they will re introduce a lot of the cut ordinance and turrets in future expansions as rebalanced not OP versions.
I think things like Harpoon Missiles and TLTs are very dangerous waters, and FFG knows that. It would have to be super trimmed down versions of those if we ever see them again.
I just want to see them because they exist in universe. They could bring them down to the same level as the other turrets and missiles but make their function unique to add more variability and list/gameplay options.
First, good video, both the history of munitions and the crazy swings is pretty wild. I remember how much changed when they introduced Guidance Chips.
Second, I have to say that all ion weapons (with the exception of Ion Torpedoes) are pretty much trash in second edition. By percent you are only going to hit for 1 token on a low defence ship, and never on an ace due to the first damage being just that damage. I understand that with less token stacking there is the possibility getting more hits, but the point of ions is control, and with needing three successful shots to activate it on a large ship, you might as well go for one of the other controls that is both cheaper and has better consistency. I think we will see more tractor beam and even jamming with the cost being so much better.
While I agree they will Ionize in 1 shot less of the time, I think it's important to remember that they are priced aggressively, and you do get multiple shots out of them. I think in groups, Ion weapons are going to be nasty.
@@HairyNick looking at pulse missiles, yeah they give you three dice, but only three shots, they can only ever deal a single damage, and you have to score two hits to get token out (unlike every other control). You can almost guarantee that that they at most will deal two ion tokens per game if fired at a low agility ship(1 or 0), and those odds drop significantly when dealing with 3 agility ships. Additionally, the inconsistent nature would require three ships to have arc at the same time to have a chance at multi hit shots and I would rather have extra damage if i am dealing with an ace at that point. When I look at this and ion cannons I feel like this is set up to cause a bad experience for new unexperienced players who end up in multiple arcs, while being basically unusable in tournaments.
Walk me off the edge Nick!
Yeet