Just have to explain to the police officer, when pulled over, that you were going through the sub-menus to adjust the air vents. Surely all these touch screen functions can't be safe to use.
Is there any evidence that the number and/or severity of RTAs has increased since touch screens started to become commonplace? Same goes for smart motorways. These things often seem bad, but are they always so? I remember when the Lotus Carlton was widely believed to be the most dangerous thing yet devised by mankind. Nowadays, if you had just 380hp you'd keep quiet down at 'Ye Olde Carbe and Camshafte' and hope nobody noticed.
@@harrysgarage agreed, I also think it’s an irresponsible attempt at saving money for the manufacturers. Buy the cheap screen and make everything work off it rather than a physical control and sell it under the guise of modern technology.
Spot on the same conclusion as I reached, after driving pure electric for 5 years (using my wife's car for occasional distance) I recently bought a phev 330e, and now distances are no longer an issue and I still get 125 mpg overall. And my reason was, as Harry said, inadequate infrastructure. Charging points that are wrong network, broken, occupied, or just non-existent sent me back to a hybrid. Lots of houses do not have dedicated parking/charging places, so hybrids will be here until electric cars can do 1000 miles on a quick charge.
Good to hear! I/we tried pure electric for nearly 12 months and it simply didn't work out for us, as we tend to do occasional long journeys each month and the stress of not knowing whether our chosen charge point on route was going to work or not was simply not worth the effort. We moved to the PHEV X5 and have been amazed at how much of our mileage is on pure electric and we have zero range concerns when doing longer distances. Feels like a win-win to us and can't see us going back to pure electric for some time!
@@harrysgarage from a consumer standpoint it makes sense until the charging network is not fully there yet (unless you have a Tesla). Cost wise, the phev consumption on pure electric is bad vs. a taycan. Of course we're talking expensive cars here, so cost of fuel/electricity is negligible, though. Not for the masses!
Is it just me or does the Sport Turismo look so much better than the regular Panamera? Must be that wagon body style, looks so clean to me. Fantastic video as always Harry!
@@apoorvachandras Yeah I just find the roofline too high on the standard Panamera. I know this was deliberate but it throws the proportions way off imo
I've never been a huge fan of the "regular" Panamera, but the Sport Turismo is a very handsome touring car. Like many other enthusiasts, I'm not yet ready to fully embrace EV's, so my choice would be the Panamera Sport Turismo hybrid rather than the Taycan. (although I'd take the Panamera ST Turbo over both of them.) Thanks Harry! Happy New Year to you!
I agree (also on the thanks to Harry). I drove the 2019 Sport Turismo E-hybrid at Porsche Museum rental in Stuttgart. - 0-160: Woohooo, that was fun - 200-110 (that happens on Autobahn quite a lot): ooooh shhhiiiii - this thing is heavy.
especially when you think classic cars.these things will be completely unusable within the next 20 years. if you want to preserve nowaday cars you´ll need a fleet of IT specialists who restore ECUs and displays
Whatever your opinion on it’s details, this is absolutely the definition of ‘all the car you’d ever need’ Space, comfort, tech, speed, handling, hybrid economy & a Porsche badge on the bonnet.
Yes thats my question too. On my 2000 Audi I never go above 3k rpm unless its up to temp, in this car you basically turn on the engine to thrash it cold.
Wondering the same. Initial cold starts and acceleration are higher rpms. Cruising speed is generally not stressful for engine given many gears and low rpm
@@caleidoo I presume it is still a wet-sump engine so although the oil could be pre-heated, the whirly rubbing bits would still be cold .... unless there is an electric oil pump too? Maybe it all doesn't matter if the Green Imperative matters more. Where's Greta when you need her?
I realize the point of this episode is to discuss electric and hybrid-electric options, but I own a Panamera Turbo Sport Turismo (the non-hybrid one), and it's a joy to drive. Doesn't have all of that heft you were complaining about with the e-Hybrid, thanks to not needing to carry around all those batteries. It really does feel like a much smaller car. Would love to hear your take on it if you have the opportunity to review one.
Another great vid Harry, thank you for all of your time and effort, and for passing on you're knowledge. It's greatly appreciated. Stay safe and I hope you and your family have a great new year. Jon.
Word to the wise- Try reducing the Title length. Something a little more concise. The Algorithms like it & it fills a larger search bracket. Eg - ‘Porsche Panamera e-hybrid: Better than a Taycan ?’
I’ve had a Cayenne Hybrid on loan, you are right they are a lovely mix of silent easy driving in town or stop-start traffic and do the speed and range when you need too. I was very impressed. If I didn’t tow and off road the Pani would be top of my list. Don’t take either near a multi-storey car park however.
What about warming up the engine in a hybrid? I mean when you just used electric power till a certain point and then you want to really push on-don't you then have to wait for the engine to warm up first?
exactly what i was thinking, all these plug in hybrids suffer from this issue as people just let it go from electric to full engine power on a stone cold day! I can see a lot of costly failures when these cars reach 10+ years old
If it's anything like my Golf, the oils being pumped round the engine when on electric and it's also got a bit of waste heat from the electric system before it comes into life. You have to consider the life of the engine as a total though, and you've got to discount additional thousands of hours of low output operation that a conventional engine would have to deliver that these engines will never need to provide.
I’m sure they figured out a way around that. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had some kind of heat exchanger between the electric cooling system and the gasoline engine so the motor will heat the engine
Don't worry - I'm sure if you thought of it Porsche with their millions of r&d and loads of engineers would have aswell. Oh and it won't just jump to life and hit the rev limiter any more readily than any other modern car.
I totally agree with your conclusions Harry. I drive a BMW 530e and it gives the best of both worlds. Since Lockdown in March, I have travelled 2,500 miles and averaged 75 mpg. The battery could do with more range and the newer model has been suitably endowed with a bigger battery. It's all the car I could ask for and I value the comfort over out and out performance. Keep up the good work, you have a new subscriber!
I was never a fan of Porsche styling. As a child, I called the old rubber bumpered 911's dodgem cars. However I absolutely love the style of both the Taycan and now the Panamera. Absolutely lovely cars. Way out of my price range but very easy on my eyes.
It’s not rocket science, some people prefer the raised driving position, them being easier to get in and out of and it being easier to get stuff in and out of them. The sporty ones make less sense but try getting someone to buy a high end model with no performance.
Is it good engineering to have turbocharged engines stop dead and restart to instant high revs? Sounds like really expensive engine repairs to expect down the time road and consequential massive depreciation continuing for the first seven years until it becomes a bargain basement heap that nobody wants to risk. Maybe I'm getting old?
It's not an issue. They just engineer around that problem. Just look at Toyota hybrids. 100% start-stop all the time. Can't be switched off. Still they are very reliable. 400000+km is no exception for those engines. I think they engineer around the start-stop problem by using 0W20 full synthetic oil and an electric oilpressure pump. The ICE will have instant oil pressure as soon as the ECU orders it to start up.
I've always wondered if hybrids have an integrated oil or block heater onboard, seems harsh to put the petrol engine under stress so quickly after firing up.
Happy New Year Harry!....LOVE the tail light design Porsche is using now - thin tube lighting taking full advantage of technology. I've never driven a first generation Panamera but I did ride in the back seat and that was enough to add it to my bucket list - just sensational.
Another nugget of pure gold from Harry. If only the TH-cam algorithm could put the irritating advert breaks in better places rather than mid-sentence... Also, is there not an affiliate link for CTEK? I'd have thought the sponsor would want to offer a discount to us viewers or a kickback to Harry and the team if it garners more business for them - added to which I need a charger!
It's been on my list of possible next cars for a while. I feel that for most of us PHEVs get us a long way towards being electrically powered for most of our journeys (EU average daily drive is 19 miles). And of course the Panamera provides an engaging driving experience!
I’ve noticed something on the specsheet Harry. This particular car doesn’t have the Sport exhaust with the valves (PSE). It only has the sport (look) tailpipes. That’s probably why it didn’t sound as sporty as it should... your video proves that selecting PSE is a must for this car.
I don’t skip the ads when I watch Harry just so TH-cam know how a car channel should be done and to give harry a little ‘tip’ like I would for a good meal at a restaurant!
I live in cold Scandinavia and I have always wondered what happens with these hybrids in the following situation: It’s 30 degrees minus. I drive the first let’s say 30 miles to the motorway and the battery is now empty. Now I need to overtake someone. Will it run the cold engine to it’s max and eventually break the engine or do the pre-heat the engine to a safe point or will it prevent me from getting the full power?
Thinking the exact same.. Even just waking up an ice cold engine for that quick squirt up the hill is murder on the engine if there is no system bringing the engine up to temperature when setting off in pure electric.
@@starald I really can’t believe that with the engineering integrity of a company like Porsche this basic question has not been researched and therefore been solved accordingly!
Wondering the answer to this question too. From what I understand, there is always reserve in the battery to help with battery longevity but also full acceleration. The EV motor and heat pump help get the engine part to the proper RPM fast but I wonder how well the engine reacts
The one thing that I'm concerned about is when the ICE is suddenly asked to give full power on kick down. Harry came out of the 30 mph speed limit of the village, having driven it all the way to that point on electric. Then, booting it up the hill when the engine is stone cold. Can that be good for the ICE, with all lubricants no where near up to temperature? I'm wondering if there maybe some breakdowns and component failures, when so much could be potentially demanded from a cold engine..just a thought.
That's a very good point. I drive a 4 hybrid. When you've been driving in purely electric and go to the V6 the car discourages you from accelerating up the revs straight away. You can but like you say I almost never do as it can't be good for the engine components.
Amazing car, I went for the cayenne coupe e-hybrid eventually last year because this one is too long to fit in a modern garage. I also have reached the conclusion that you need to sit higher these days with so many other suv's and tall vans on the roads. I expect to keep it for the long term. great channel, thanks.
I've been driving in some of these new Hybrids that have this full eletric mode which is great however theres one little thing that really tingles my mechanical sympathy. The combustion engine only helps when you really want to step on it, but if you do the engine suddenly starts completly cold from 0 rpm to a very high rpm and demanding regime, can't this be damaging to the engine overtime? Or what have they engineered so these engines are made to rev high from the start?
I’m certain the boffins of a company like Porsche have researched and developed engineering solutions for what is basically a pretty fundamental question!
Harry, got a question. I was always taught to never rev a cold engine and yet this Panamera defaults to electric with the petrol engine cutting in when required. So, if the car is running hard on electric and suddenly the petrol engine cuts in (cold) isn't this wearing the engine out prematurely?
Discounted by the fact the engine is off for a much larger percentage of the time vs a regular engine. Modern oils and electric oil pumps etc mean not a problem.
Will any 2+ tonne Porsche ever be sporting? Also if you drive for the first 15 miles on the battery then boot it with a stone cold engine, I tend to wonder how long it will last.... I don't think hybrids are the answer
Having 3 hybrids incl i8 roadster, Golf GTE, and Panamera...there is electric wizardry that continually heats and pumps the synthetic oil when driven in ev mode so should you engage petrol hybrid it's ready .... Having said that I drive like there's my lunch eg an egg sandwich between my foot and the accelerator for the first minute or so after the 'e' runs out to max protection 😃 I have two full electrics too and it I'm driving say 300 plus miles in a day I tend to leave them at home as I hate stopping to get electric/range anxiety...you need 500 (my daily drive limit) miles e range to work - I agree with Harry at mo next 5 yrs hybrids are more useable than most, if not all, electric cars !
@@paulthorpe766 that is interesting. To me it would make more sense to make a diesel hybrid. No emissions in town and better CO2 saving at higher speeds. Think the latest E class offers this... With the latest range of cleaner diesels, I think we have over reacted after the VW issue.
@@colinw1591 yes there's some sense in that - I've driven it it's ok but the problem is you have enjoyed the utter smoothness of electric end then a slightly lumpy (and very high inertia) diesel kicks in, which tbh is a bit irksome. What VW have achieved with the GTE is better even than the Panamera and I8 though in terms of refinement over performance...eg when the 26 mile electric ends the little super quiet/refined 1.4 litre engine kicks in and it's so smooth you hardly realise it!...it's slowish mind until you hit the GTE button and then it's an 8/10ths GTI !
@@paulthorpe766 thanks for sharing your experience. Think we will go with one small EV to do the majority of our day to day journeys and keep the boring but very economical Octavia 1.6 diesel estate for the longer trips until the technology improves. We want to embrace the future but it's not quite there yet....
@@colinw1591 PSA were first, Pug 3008 and DS5. 200hp combined - non plugin - with 4WD. Though it has to be said a pure diesel was more frugal than the hybrids because of the weight. I still miss by DS hybrid because of its silent driving on my commute.
A feeling of heft ! That sums up most ev . I remember SAAB used to have a night mode button. All lighting turned off on the dash except the speedo. It was a good thing. Wish modern cars had the same button as I find the ‘iPad’ dashboards distracting when driving .
Great video again. As an engineer I often wonder how this sort of car is driven and the wear and tear on the engine before it's warmed up. Starting off in electric, driving from home, getting out of town, then the road opens up and "the beans" are used, thrashing a cold engine isn't good for it. I've not experience a hybrid, so don't know if the car protects itself. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts
@@hpman911 You really think Porsche hasn't thought about it??? My own Volvo XC60 PHEV when driven in pure electric mode circulates the oil in the engine at full pressure, heats up the oil using the auxilary heater, and the oil is 0W20 so it's practically water. I can absolutely guarantee that if Volvo could figure this out 5 years ago, Porsche also has this sorted out. Also if you're like most regular drivers in this country, the engine will very rarely run at all - so the longevity of the engine will be an order or two of magnitude longer than in a regular non-PHEV version.
@@gambiting My post was sarcastic ie I was saying of course they HAD thought about it due to their engineering expertise . I can’t believe there are so many posts on this video asking basically the same question over and over. Glad to hear Volvo have managed a solution and I’m sure Porsche have something very similar in place as well.
So, when accelerating out of the village up the hill, the ICE fired-up at 2000rpm and revved up to the red line - all while the engine oil was cold. Ouch! How many miles of such cold-start abuse before the ICE and its turbos need a costly rebuild - not many I suspect? Not a great used-buy, then.
I'm sure Porsche has thought it through but does the engine technically go from cold/freshly started to being required at 85mph if it's default is electric only?
sure, like every other PHEV, same deal with a 2015 Golf GTE, thing is over the life time of the car the engine still has an easier life, no idling - minimal low output operation. Of course if you're going to gun it, then get the engine running a bit before and give it an easier time.
Exactly what I was about to type. As someone who used the oil temp gauge on my GTI Golf MK1 as a reference and not the water temp gauge. You can get in this, drive far enough to forget the ic engine is cold and suddenly decide to be a hooligan and light up the poor petrol engine to 6k plus. Just another way car manufacturers will reduce rage life of our cars...like 30k first oil change on my Transit Sport...Nooo changed the oil at 6,000 and every 10 since.
Porsche PHEVs would always start the engine if ambient temperature is below 0 C. In addition, when the engine first kicks in, it will keep running until it's in the normal operating window. In effect, unless you always start the engine with very hard acceleration, it's not that different to normal cold start.
@@davewilshere I imagine the engine is warmed through though when it's gunning it - there are heat exchangers between the batteries and the engine oil/coolant - so it's not going flat out from totally cold as it were. Plus I'm sure the engine has been engineered with the particular usage profile in mind!
Thought exact the same thing when Harry floored it. But I think is up to the driver to control the driving mode and put some heat to engine in the first few miles. Otherwise would be just too violent for a cold engine to be reved like that.
Harry I always enjoy your videos and watch them all, you're a great engaging presenter, your editing, different angles and views of the car, inside and out are fabulous..
It seems to me that certain cars cause more distraction for the driver, trying to figure out how to use essential things like heaters and radio than if the driver was illegally texting on their phone. They've all jumped on the touchscreen fashion bandwagon and forgot about ergonomics and safety.
Yes; "new" for the sake of marketing and sales hasn't been "better" very often for the last several years; it's very frustrating that cars are getting worse in a lot of ways recently...
@@EliteRock They'd be spinning in their graves, I drive a classic 900,I don't have to look for any controls, I know where they are and where they should be LOL.
Actually, to the average driver, this is not an issue after a short & quick learning curve. Touchscreen or otherwise controls, being in Auto, there’s no need to fiddle while driving. The issue of not paying attention while driving is a human issue: discipline. 2091 Audi TT Roadster is “old fashioned” driving. 2018 Ioniq PHEV is newer and early on it was tempting to “drive & learn” vs. learn/set when parked. But discipline won even with lane departure warning and emergency braking features. Thanks
@@Rhaman68 The problem isn't the "learning curve", it's the lack of any tactility whatsoever - *you can't operate a touch-screen by feel.* Is this hard to grasp (sic)?
My third time with this video as I’ve had my eye on the Panamera hybrid for some time. Harry’s comments and opinions are the best in the business. I would buy this car tomorrow based on my experience with my Boxster S and two GMC Yukon XL’s. Thank you.
I’m not sure I like the idea of setting off under then bringing in a cold ICE somewhere down the road. Does it have any software to cope with that problem?
One thing I’ve wondered about with these hybrids is when the engine has to engage at a high rpm and give a lot of power on the motorway suddenly. Does it get warmed up a little in any way?
I believe it was Bacon who said “There is no sublime hideousness without some small beauty in the proportion.” I am only watching to see if I can spot that small beauty ... I guess the bonnet badge looks nice.
We have one visit the undercroft regularly in the apartment block i live in. It is a big car but looks great from every angle, especially the rear three quarter view.
Can we go back to turn button heating and ventilation controls please, there must be some nice materials out there to make them look and feel better now
Harry the definitive motoring brain ! Happy new year to you Sir. Could this be the ultimate cross Europe method? lol. It's funny Harry, when you were a student 0-60mph in 3+ seconds was considered racing car type performance !
Great video as always, I tested BMW I8 quire a few years back and that also ran on electric only up to 70mph I think, could be a good shout getting one of them back for a video to see how far hybrids have or haven’t moved on
Still don’t understand why anyone would buy one of these over a used 640d/A7 3.0tdi or 3.0 Panamera diesel. You could use the £70K cash left over to fuel it for the next 30 years.
Superb video, many thanks for the work. That's re-focussed me away from the 4.0 V8 and on to the e-Hybrid. What amazing figures for economy and carbon emissions. Wonderful engineering.
Hi, I’ve got a Merc plug in hybrid and I’ve gunned it a few times before warm, but I wouldn’t make a habit of it. It does get an oil change ever 10k though. Done nearly 100k without issue which really shocked me.
@@ciaranwebb6871 Hi thanks for the reply , I've often wondered this as I have an SLK55 weekend car with an oil temp read out. The water heats up quite quickly but the oil takes considerably longer. AMG say that you should not use full power if the oil is still cold. Food for thought isn't it ?
Thanks for another post for sanity Harry, as you say EV's are to early for the technology, they still have details to work out. Happy New Year Harry and Fam. Here's hoping for an exceptionally good spring on the farm, all the best!.
Out of the two, it would be the Panamera for me for a multitude of reasons. Maybe in 10 years when the charging situation and battery technology have improved drastically, I may reconsider.
There is no need to have a better battery or faster charging than a Taycan brings to the table really. I'm sure they will both still improve but Porsche has gotten it bang on with their first try. I'll have a Taycan over the Panamera any day of the week. Also I've done Harwich to Scotland multiple times in my little Ioniq EV. Roadtrips aren't about laptimes, having a charge and being able to relax is not a bad part of the trip in my opinion.
The Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo is out to order in March 2021. Therefore if future Taycan owners would like a hatchback then wait until the Geneva motor show.
The one thing Harry this video neglects is the astronomical financial saving of buying the Taycan as a business owner. You can offset 15% of the Panamera cost against your business’s capital allowance in year 1, vs 100% of your capital allowance with the Taycan, added to which there are no BIK payments due to HMRC for either the owner or the business with the Taycan. For a high rate taxpayer who owns their business, that equates to a saving of around £30k for a profitable business for the Taycan vs the Panamera in year 1 of ownership alone. This has to be considered in reviews because it makes for a major consideration in purchasing decisions for business owners.
@@harrysgarage I appreciate you mention it at the end Harry. But £30k saving is worth more than what is effectively just a footnote comment at the end in my humble opinion. Most Panamera owners would choose a 911 over the Panamera if they didn’t need the space. Just as most Taycan owners running 1 or 2 cars would choose a 911 if it wasn’t for the tax saving. 911, Taycan and Panamera all fit different requirements.
@@doctorjonathanday agree! My family outgrew my 911 CarreraT and no way in hell I’d choos the BIG whale of a car that the Panamera is to replace the 911. The size of the Taycan is just superb fitting the needs of a motoring happy family of 2 adults and 2 teenagers. The styling is amazing. The economy outstanding. The performance IRL unbeatable and the handling almost on par with the 911. Fun factor 80-90% of the 911. The Taycan wins it every day of the year! Best car on sale today!🥇
Hey just a note. I do not think this car has sports exhaust.. according to the sticker shown it just has the exhaust tips. For 600 quid you only get the Tips LOL. The sport exhaust is more like 3k quid.
Another great video! I would love to hear your thoughts on the BMW 330e or 530e? Similar sort of product: 30 miles on electric but with 300bhp at £40K. I know you have the X5e but thats a lot more expensive and bigger car. Maybe the 3 / 5 series is a perfect middle ground?
I have to say I think the lines of the Taycan are better both in standard and Sport Turismo. The build on both is astonishing. I chose the Taycan and I was doing around 400 miles a weeks and some long journeys and when you know where the charging point are it is never an issue. You soon forget about the engine. If you want amazing engine sound and you can afford one of these cars, you could also ways have a 911 GT3 or a Caymen/Boxter GTS for weekend. Most of these cars are bought through the company so the tax advantage is the key. Hence the Taycan is the bests selling Porsche today. Great Video though Harry and love your style and reviews. Total respect for all you do! Thanks!
Hi Harry, my father has just gone from the panamera E-Hybrid to the Taycan, he had nothing but problems with the Panamera. He said he would not go back to the Panamera and he has two of them now (first one was a diesel). Also large wheels on the panamera make an awful noise when turning the wheels when stationary.
Great video. I just ordered that exact car in blue here in Minnesota. We get very cold and have very few charging options except at home. I have a 2018 Panamera 4e hybrid to sell/trade in and often times can go a thousand miles on a tank of gas because I live only 6 miles from work. But, as you noted, I can use this type car for long distance without range anxiety. Seriously considered a Taycan but, our electric charging infrastructure just isn’t there yet. Phil Little Falls, MN
That curb weight though, 2300kg's is mental. One question about all hybrids that just came to mind. When you are driving in electric mode and switch to the engine on won't the engine be cold and not lubricated fully yet, so won't the engine wear and possibly a head gasket failure if you drive spiritedly straight away? Normally when you have an ICE engine you let it idle for a little bit and then drive like normal, you let the engine coolant come up to temperature and then you can give it the beans. That doesn't seem to be the case with hybrid vehicles because you can be driving and then the engine turns on and you rev the snot out of it. Or have the engineers thought of this and lubricate and warm the engine before it even turns on?
5.5k revs when the engine first wakes up - I know it’s designed for it, but you’d have to wonder about the long-term prospects of these hybrid engines.
You cannot design an engine for this ... This is just a rich person's toy. Saving the planet (ahem avoiding taxes) by buying a 2.3 ton luxury SUV ... lol. I figure they engineered this thing to take the abuse for a standard lease period.
@@detaart "You cannot design an engine for this ..." - what makes you think that? Other manufacturers have long engineered their engines for exactly this, but Porsche can't? Also for majority of users the engine will rarely ever run, so the longevity will be an order of magnitude longer than in any non-PHEV model. "I figure they engineered this thing to take the abuse for a standard lease period." - porsche cars are statistically the longest surviving and used cars on the road today. They have exceptional longevity by any standard, easily beating any other manufacturer on the market. I'll eat my hat if this proves any different.
@@gambiting Metal expands when hot and contracts when cold. Why do you think you need to warm up a combustion engine? Tell me how to make two pieces of moving dissimilar metal fit and mate perfectly no matter how cold or hot they get ... i'll wait. The bulk of the wear to an engine happens during startup and cold running. The engine might not run as much, but when it does, it's getting kicked in the nuts. Porsche engines certainly are not bullet proof by any means. Bore scoring, ISM bearing, liners cracking, etc. I hope you're hungry ...
@@detaart well you don't need to wait too long, because I'm happy to provide an answer right now. In my own XC60 PHEV when you're in pure electric mode the engine oil is circulated in the engine with an electric rather than belt driven oil pump, and is actually heated with an auxiliary heater so no, the engine doesn't start "cold" maybe except for the first minute or two after you get in the car, so same as any combustion engine car. To add to this the oil is 0W20 so it's practically water even at very low temperatures - no problems with insufficient viscosities here. So like, if Volvo can design a system that works for immediate startup at any point at any rpm....Porsche can't? Also, you're acting as if engines that start and run at max rpm don't exist - power generators do exactly this, you start it up and it goes to max RPM immediately without warm up. You know how that's done? Through good engineering alone, with modern machine precision you're not going to damage the engine in any way by going into high rpms without warming up. We don't run mineral oils with 20W50 viscosities anymore.
Toyota and Hyundai offered this some years ago. The panel doesn’t add enough energy to be useful. Toyota’s panel was used to run a fan to cool the interior while the car was parked. For that size panel, you could be parked up for the day in the sun and add 1 mile of range.
@@rvpsilva9213 because they produce not nearly enough energy to charge up the battery significantly. And most people prefer to have a sunroof. They would be gimmicks but not very useful
Harry, you make some good points. However, I think the answer is highly dependent on use case. I personally use a Tesla as my daily driver. I can charge at home and have no issues doing days of close to 200 miles without recharging. I’m far more efficient than any hybrid. And I really worry in a hybrid with the engine constantly cutting into life and going to hard throttle when stone cold. We do have a diesel SUV with 600 miles plus range when we road trip though. And there are plenty of Superchargers where I love and road trip that it’s not a problem finding charging. I recognize that not everyone has this luxury. I would posit that the plug in hybrid is far less stressful to live with....until you get used to owning a true long range EV. Once you do, the anxiety subsides and you discover it’s not as bad as you think. Thanks for the great content and the thought provoking question.
Harry, you should explain how much a service would cost in the cars that you review! Word is that a Panamera service is 5000£. How do you justify that?
@@mikecraig8454 I'm sure some people just make this stuff up. Its as if they had never owned a Porsche before. I've always found them very reasonable considering the work involved and nowhere near £5k unless there is major work on.
@@nickturner2813 In fairness you are correct. I was making a more general point about hybrids and people ragging cold engines aftet bimbling along on EV power only.
You are actually missing the full sports exhaust on that car, there is just the black sport exhaust tips. If you would have PSE there is always an icon next to the spoiler icon on the central display. The sound is actually much better with the PSE. :)
Agreed, I also noticed that at 12 mins in. The quad tailpipes doesn’t necessarily mean the sports exhaust system has been spec’d. I activate mine on every journey! (Drives my wife mad 😆)
@@akashsarma8241 they’re also meant to be cleaned to prevent corrosion and to make them look nice. You can drive a car properly and wash it too Plus my point wasn’t that the car was clean, it was that it had been washed BADLY and destroyed the paint
@@akashsarma8241 look into some really good waxes, sealants or even a ceramic coating if you wanna spring the money for it. It’ll repel the water and dirt so it’ll take longer to get dirty or when it IS dirty, it’s easier to wash. I’m from the UK so I’m not sure if you’ll be able to get your hands on these products but I get them all from Amazon so you might. Collinite make some really good waxes, so do meguiars. Collinite 845 is VERY good. Sonax brilliant shine detailer is also a great sealant that’s quick and easy to get on the car too. Forensic Detailing here on TH-cam does a really good suggestions of waxes and sealants and that. Might keep your car a bit cleaner mate
@@ipawdutube i drive skoda Octavia mark1 vrs with 160k miles its looks decent but it has scars from years of usage. Maybe when it hits 200k i may reward it
Just have to explain to the police officer, when pulled over, that you were going through the sub-menus to adjust the air vents. Surely all these touch screen functions can't be safe to use.
Think it's time legislators took note of all these touch screen operations on latest models. Starting to get silly now.
germany already did back when a judge classed adjustig the wipers in a tesla (which is done in the infotainment) as distracted driving
Is there any evidence that the number and/or severity of RTAs has increased since touch screens started to become commonplace?
Same goes for smart motorways.
These things often seem bad, but are they always so?
I remember when the Lotus Carlton was widely believed to be the most dangerous thing yet devised by mankind.
Nowadays, if you had just 380hp you'd keep quiet down at 'Ye Olde Carbe and Camshafte' and hope nobody noticed.
@@harrysgarage agreed, I also think it’s an irresponsible attempt at saving money for the manufacturers. Buy the cheap screen and make everything work off it rather than a physical control and sell it under the guise of modern technology.
They are not and I only have an octavia vrs 😂
Nice, but makes my 2nd hand under £30k 28k mile diesel Panamera that gives me 50 mpg seem like phenomenal value.
Spot on the same conclusion as I reached, after driving pure electric for 5 years (using my wife's car for occasional distance) I recently bought a phev 330e, and now distances are no longer an issue and I still get 125 mpg overall.
And my reason was, as Harry said, inadequate infrastructure. Charging points that are wrong network, broken, occupied, or just non-existent sent me back to a hybrid.
Lots of houses do not have dedicated parking/charging places, so hybrids will be here until electric cars can do 1000 miles on a quick charge.
Good to hear!
I/we tried pure electric for nearly 12 months and it simply didn't work out for us, as we tend to do occasional long journeys each month and the stress of not knowing whether our chosen charge point on route was going to work or not was simply not worth the effort.
We moved to the PHEV X5 and have been amazed at how much of our mileage is on pure electric and we have zero range concerns when doing longer distances. Feels like a win-win to us and can't see us going back to pure electric for some time!
@@harrysgarage from a consumer standpoint it makes sense until the charging network is not fully there yet (unless you have a Tesla). Cost wise, the phev consumption on pure electric is bad vs. a taycan. Of course we're talking expensive cars here, so cost of fuel/electricity is negligible, though.
Not for the masses!
The dilemma we've all had to deal with! 😆👍🏻
Quite a troubling conundrum, indeed.
Unluckily, most of us don't have to.
The biggest dilemma would be 100 km/h speed limit
We *wish* we had to deal with
@@isaacfeinberg4623 Swapped my Porsche for a cheaper car to run and maintain. Best thing I ever did. Now I can afford holidays abroad.
Is it just me or does the Sport Turismo look so much better than the regular Panamera? Must be that wagon body style, looks so clean to me. Fantastic video as always Harry!
Agreed.
I've always thought that the Panamera would look good as a shooting brake rather than a pudgy looking saloon car. The Sport Turismo looks just right.
@@apoorvachandras Yeah I just find the roofline too high on the standard Panamera. I know this was deliberate but it throws the proportions way off imo
when people see one it makes them happy its looks so much better
Much prefer the saloon.
I've never been a huge fan of the "regular" Panamera, but the Sport Turismo is a very handsome touring car. Like many other enthusiasts, I'm not yet ready to fully embrace EV's, so my choice would be the Panamera Sport Turismo hybrid rather than the Taycan. (although I'd take the Panamera ST Turbo over both of them.) Thanks Harry! Happy New Year to you!
I agree (also on the thanks to Harry). I drove the 2019 Sport Turismo E-hybrid at Porsche Museum rental in Stuttgart.
- 0-160: Woohooo, that was fun
- 200-110 (that happens on Autobahn quite a lot): ooooh shhhiiiii - this thing is heavy.
Love when Harry gets genuinely annoyed!
tesla is the better ev to have
You wouldn't take the hybrid? Is it purely the sound the turbo makes?
@@5thgearouttahere For me it is the 300-400 kg extra weight and drive train complexity. It does make a big big difference.
Touch screen...how long until all these digital dashboards look like the 80s Aston Martin Lagonda?
If only they'd make more cars that look like something from thunderbirds - oh hang on, cybertruck!
One of these auto companies with the LCD gauges needs to wise up and create a Lagonda-style green-scale display mode.
@Paul Fellows stupid comment. They're worth a fortune. Carry on playing with your trains set. Knob.
Touch screens are vomit. Tesla 3 for sale with flat battery. Charge station 85km away. Will need to be towed.
especially when you think classic cars.these things will be completely unusable within the next 20 years.
if you want to preserve nowaday cars you´ll need a fleet of IT specialists who restore ECUs and displays
Whatever your opinion on it’s details, this is absolutely the definition of ‘all the car you’d ever need’
Space, comfort, tech, speed, handling, hybrid economy & a Porsche badge on the bonnet.
Is there a tendency to abuse a cold engine if the start of all journeys are electric?
Yes thats my question too. On my 2000 Audi I never go above 3k rpm unless its up to temp, in this car you basically turn on the engine to thrash it cold.
thought the same
Wondering the same. Initial cold starts and acceleration are higher rpms. Cruising speed is generally not stressful for engine given many gears and low rpm
With all that tech, I would be ridiculous if there was nothing heating up the engine oil while driving electric, no?
@@caleidoo I presume it is still a wet-sump engine so although the oil could be pre-heated, the whirly rubbing bits would still be cold .... unless there is an electric oil pump too? Maybe it all doesn't matter if the Green Imperative matters more. Where's Greta when you need her?
Agree with the vent control gripe, Harry is so right on.
I realize the point of this episode is to discuss electric and hybrid-electric options, but I own a Panamera Turbo Sport Turismo (the non-hybrid one), and it's a joy to drive. Doesn't have all of that heft you were complaining about with the e-Hybrid, thanks to not needing to carry around all those batteries. It really does feel like a much smaller car. Would love to hear your take on it if you have the opportunity to review one.
Another great vid Harry, thank you for all of your time and effort, and for passing on you're knowledge.
It's greatly appreciated. Stay safe and I hope you and your family have a great new year. Jon.
Word to the wise- Try reducing the Title length. Something a little more concise. The Algorithms like it & it fills a larger search bracket. Eg - ‘Porsche Panamera e-hybrid: Better than a Taycan ?’
Copy Doug demuros style he has it down.
@@jackrobinson3392 Seen through Glass also
@@jackrobinson3392
I think Harry has a classier following than Doug
@@jimmyh6601 Doug also has a much larger following. However, not sure how his following is relevant
"You'd be amazed at how little fuel you'll use in the Panamera!"
Meanwhile the Taycan uses zero fuel 😂
I’ve had a Cayenne Hybrid on loan, you are right they are a lovely mix of silent easy driving in town or stop-start traffic and do the speed and range when you need too. I was very impressed. If I didn’t tow and off road the Pani would be top of my list. Don’t take either near a multi-storey car park however.
Happy 2021 Harry and thank you for the joy you have brought to us and for the joy you are going to bring to us. Stay safe!
What about warming up the engine in a hybrid? I mean when you just used electric power till a certain point and then you want to really push on-don't you then have to wait for the engine to warm up first?
Doesn’t the engine need to warm up before jumping into life and hitting the Rev limiter ?
As with all very expensive cars, by the time such s thing becomes a problem they've long got rid of it.
exactly what i was thinking, all these plug in hybrids suffer from this issue as people just let it go from electric to full engine power on a stone cold day! I can see a lot of costly failures when these cars reach 10+ years old
If it's anything like my Golf, the oils being pumped round the engine when on electric and it's also got a bit of waste heat from the electric system before it comes into life. You have to consider the life of the engine as a total though, and you've got to discount additional thousands of hours of low output operation that a conventional engine would have to deliver that these engines will never need to provide.
I’m sure they figured out a way around that. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had some kind of heat exchanger between the electric cooling system and the gasoline engine so the motor will heat the engine
Don't worry - I'm sure if you thought of it Porsche with their millions of r&d and loads of engineers would have aswell.
Oh and it won't just jump to life and hit the rev limiter any more readily than any other modern car.
I totally agree with your conclusions Harry. I drive a BMW 530e and it gives the best of both worlds. Since Lockdown in March, I have travelled 2,500 miles and averaged 75 mpg. The battery could do with more range and the newer model has been suitably endowed with a bigger battery. It's all the car I could ask for and I value the comfort over out and out performance. Keep up the good work, you have a new subscriber!
Excited to see the taycan estate, whenever that's out
March 2021.
@@plugsocket9432 Ready For It!
I was never a fan of Porsche styling. As a child, I called the old rubber bumpered 911's dodgem cars.
However I absolutely love the style of both the Taycan and now the Panamera. Absolutely lovely cars. Way out of my price range but very easy on my eyes.
I'm just the opposite. Love the styling of most 911's but have never liked the Panamera, though I don't doubt its great GT with excellent dynamics.
I see a Harrys Garage Video, I click without even caring what it is 😂👍
How very original 😒
@@rajjy1976 Oh dear
I miss the days when the sport saloon and sport estate were popular. Sporty SUVs just make zero sense to me, and the SUV coupes even less so.
It’s not rocket science, some people prefer the raised driving position, them being easier to get in and out of and it being easier to get stuff in and out of them. The sporty ones make less sense but try getting someone to buy a high end model with no performance.
@@Jabber-ig3iw Rolls Royce: Are we a joke to you?
@@moa-wg3bo But you don't buy a Rolls for speed was my point.
Well it sells. And with porche, the cayenne saved them.
Suv 4 door coupes, with the swooping rear roof, DO not make sense to me..I agree with you.
@@nabahmadi5012 Define saved? Because building aborted fetuses and calling them cars sounds more like purgatory than salvation.
Is it good engineering to have turbocharged engines stop dead and restart to instant high revs? Sounds like really expensive engine repairs to expect down the time road and consequential massive depreciation continuing for the first seven years until it becomes a bargain basement heap that nobody wants to risk. Maybe I'm getting old?
Manufacturers don’t care. As long as it lasts for the warranty period and brings down their fleet mpg average. Same silliness as stop start v2.
It's not an issue. They just engineer around that problem. Just look at Toyota hybrids. 100% start-stop all the time. Can't be switched off. Still they are very reliable. 400000+km is no exception for those engines.
I think they engineer around the start-stop problem by using 0W20 full synthetic oil and an electric oilpressure pump. The ICE will have instant oil pressure as soon as the ECU orders it to start up.
I've always wondered if hybrids have an integrated oil or block heater onboard, seems harsh to put the petrol engine under stress so quickly after firing up.
Porsche advises in the owner manual to not let the car warm up before driving it.
Happy New Year Harry!....LOVE the tail light design Porsche is using now - thin tube lighting taking full advantage of technology. I've never driven a first generation Panamera but I did ride in the back seat and that was enough to add it to my bucket list - just sensational.
It’s just to big for your average UK country road. Marked parking bays won’t accommodate it either, let alone a single garage space.
Another nugget of pure gold from Harry. If only the TH-cam algorithm could put the irritating advert breaks in better places rather than mid-sentence...
Also, is there not an affiliate link for CTEK? I'd have thought the sponsor would want to offer a discount to us viewers or a kickback to Harry and the team if it garners more business for them - added to which I need a charger!
It's been on my list of possible next cars for a while. I feel that for most of us PHEVs get us a long way towards being electrically powered for most of our journeys (EU average daily drive is 19 miles). And of course the Panamera provides an engaging driving experience!
I’ve noticed something on the specsheet Harry. This particular car doesn’t have the Sport exhaust with the valves (PSE). It only has the sport (look) tailpipes. That’s probably why it didn’t sound as sporty as it should... your video proves that selecting PSE is a must for this car.
It's a good day when Harry releases a new video
Man, none of my comments have ever got as many likes as your bland one 😭😭 I need to go away and regroup
@@rajjy1976 if u believe that getting likes for a youtube comment is an achievement then ur life is bland bruv
I don’t skip the ads when I watch Harry just so TH-cam know how a car channel should be done and to give harry a little ‘tip’ like I would for a good meal at a restaurant!
Looked forward to this all day!
Your comment on the (old) Panamera that it ”makes you feel like you’re going to a conference” is still valid in my opinion.
I live in cold Scandinavia and I have always wondered what happens with these hybrids in the following situation:
It’s 30 degrees minus. I drive the first let’s say 30 miles to the motorway and the battery is now empty. Now I need to overtake someone. Will it run the cold engine to it’s max and eventually break the engine or do the pre-heat the engine to a safe point or will it prevent me from getting the full power?
Something I've always wondered.
Thinking the exact same.. Even just waking up an ice cold engine for that quick squirt up the hill is murder on the engine if there is no system bringing the engine up to temperature when setting off in pure electric.
@@starald I really can’t believe that with the engineering integrity of a company like Porsche this basic question has not been researched and therefore been solved accordingly!
Wondering the answer to this question too. From what I understand, there is always reserve in the battery to help with battery longevity but also full acceleration. The EV motor and heat pump help get the engine part to the proper RPM fast but I wonder how well the engine reacts
@@hpman911 : See "IMS Bearing troubles". German, not perfect.
Harry’s wisdom. Well worth listening
Harry is a wonderful man.
The name is as long as the car, jolly good video as always.
"Jolly good" 🤣 You twat.
Thank you for your low class comment
Anything with the word 'Harry's' in it is by far the best viewing to be had from Beijing.
The one thing that I'm concerned about is when the ICE is suddenly asked to give full power on kick down. Harry came out of the 30 mph speed limit of the village, having driven it all the way to that point on electric. Then, booting it up the hill when the engine is stone cold. Can that be good for the ICE, with all lubricants no where near up to temperature? I'm wondering if there maybe some breakdowns and component failures, when so much could be potentially demanded from a cold engine..just a thought.
That's a very good point. I drive a 4 hybrid. When you've been driving in purely electric and go to the V6 the car discourages you from accelerating up the revs straight away. You can but like you say I almost never do as it can't be good for the engine components.
Amazing car, I went for the cayenne coupe e-hybrid eventually last year because this one is too long to fit in a modern garage. I also have reached the conclusion that you need to sit higher these days with so many other suv's and tall vans on the roads. I expect to keep it for the long term. great channel, thanks.
Not really a fan of the Panamera, but the colour is absolutely wonderful.
Ah yes, a colour Clarkson described as the colour of a vets forearm.
For a steam locomotive maybe
I've been driving in some of these new Hybrids that have this full eletric mode which is great however theres one little thing that really tingles my mechanical sympathy.
The combustion engine only helps when you really want to step on it, but if you do the engine suddenly starts completly cold from 0 rpm to a very high rpm and demanding regime, can't this be damaging to the engine overtime? Or what have they engineered so these engines are made to rev high from the start?
This is why a hybrid is flawed.
I’m certain the boffins of a company like Porsche have researched and developed engineering solutions for what is basically a pretty fundamental question!
No
@@user-jt1jv8vl9r nope.... you mean to say... you are flawed.
Harry, got a question. I was always taught to never rev a cold engine and yet this Panamera defaults to electric with the petrol engine cutting in when required. So, if the car is running hard on electric and suddenly the petrol engine cuts in (cold) isn't this wearing the engine out prematurely?
Discounted by the fact the engine is off for a much larger percentage of the time vs a regular engine. Modern oils and electric oil pumps etc mean not a problem.
Will any 2+ tonne Porsche ever be sporting? Also if you drive for the first 15 miles on the battery then boot it with a stone cold engine, I tend to wonder how long it will last.... I don't think hybrids are the answer
Having 3 hybrids incl i8 roadster, Golf GTE, and Panamera...there is electric wizardry that continually heats and pumps the synthetic oil when driven in ev mode so should you engage petrol hybrid it's ready .... Having said that I drive like there's my lunch eg an egg sandwich between my foot and the accelerator for the first minute or so after the 'e' runs out to max protection 😃
I have two full electrics too and it I'm driving say 300 plus miles in a day I tend to leave them at home as I hate stopping to get electric/range anxiety...you need 500 (my daily drive limit) miles e range to work - I agree with Harry at mo next 5 yrs hybrids are more useable than most, if not all, electric cars !
@@paulthorpe766 that is interesting. To me it would make more sense to make a diesel hybrid. No emissions in town and better CO2 saving at higher speeds. Think the latest E class offers this... With the latest range of cleaner diesels, I think we have over reacted after the VW issue.
@@colinw1591 yes there's some sense in that - I've driven it it's ok but the problem is you have enjoyed the utter smoothness of electric end then a slightly lumpy (and very high inertia) diesel kicks in, which tbh is a bit irksome. What VW have achieved with the GTE is better even than the Panamera and I8 though in terms of refinement over performance...eg when the 26 mile electric ends the little super quiet/refined 1.4 litre engine kicks in and it's so smooth you hardly realise it!...it's slowish mind until you hit the GTE button and then it's an 8/10ths GTI !
@@paulthorpe766 thanks for sharing your experience. Think we will go with one small EV to do the majority of our day to day journeys and keep the boring but very economical Octavia 1.6 diesel estate for the longer trips until the technology improves. We want to embrace the future but it's not quite there yet....
@@colinw1591 PSA were first, Pug 3008 and DS5. 200hp combined - non plugin - with 4WD. Though it has to be said a pure diesel was more frugal than the hybrids because of the weight. I still miss by DS hybrid because of its silent driving on my commute.
A feeling of heft ! That sums up most ev . I remember SAAB used to have a night mode button. All lighting turned off on the dash except the speedo. It was a good thing. Wish modern cars had the same button as I find the ‘iPad’ dashboards distracting when driving .
@Richard Harrold It was less distracting . Any warning gauge would light up as necessary .
Looking forward to 2021 with Harry's videos.
Great video again. As an engineer I often wonder how this sort of car is driven and the wear and tear on the engine before it's warmed up. Starting off in electric, driving from home, getting out of town, then the road opens up and "the beans" are used, thrashing a cold engine isn't good for it. I've not experience a hybrid, so don't know if the car protects itself. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts
Can’t believe Porsche haven’t thought of this as it’s pretty fundamental.
@@hpman911 You really think Porsche hasn't thought about it??? My own Volvo XC60 PHEV when driven in pure electric mode circulates the oil in the engine at full pressure, heats up the oil using the auxilary heater, and the oil is 0W20 so it's practically water. I can absolutely guarantee that if Volvo could figure this out 5 years ago, Porsche also has this sorted out. Also if you're like most regular drivers in this country, the engine will very rarely run at all - so the longevity of the engine will be an order or two of magnitude longer than in a regular non-PHEV version.
@@gambiting My post was sarcastic ie I was saying of course they HAD thought about it due to their engineering expertise . I can’t believe there are so many posts on this video asking basically the same question over and over. Glad to hear Volvo have managed a solution and I’m sure Porsche have something very similar in place as well.
@@hpman911 ah. Sorry, I didn't see the sarcasm :-D
So, when accelerating out of the village up the hill, the ICE fired-up at 2000rpm and revved up to the red line - all while the engine oil was cold. Ouch! How many miles of such cold-start abuse before the ICE and its turbos need a costly rebuild - not many I suspect?
Not a great used-buy, then.
Surely Porsche would have taken that question into account when designing this car, it’s a pretty basic requirement after all!
@@hpman911 only for the warranty period. Why make it last 100k miles or more? No need
@@scubyfan The warranty period can now be extended for up to 15 years and covers all important mechanical parts of the car.
@@hpman911 at what cost?
@@scubyfan Surely as they're mostly sold on finance they'll very much be worried about the 2nd hand resale value, and thus reliability.
That back end si so 928GTS inspired
Not really...
Yes it sure is reminiscent of the old 928. That was also a fat pig!
I heard the 928 was coming back. Is that still true?
Les Porsche c'est du chinois !
Corvette front/A6/911 rear that is the Panamera design formula.
Try to adjust the heating system on a touch screen whilst you driving on a bumpy road in a rainy night, be happy when you survive!
Yes Harry- happy new year! 👍
Another fantastic video from Harry to kick off 2021.
I'm sure Porsche has thought it through but does the engine technically go from cold/freshly started to being required at 85mph if it's default is electric only?
sure, like every other PHEV, same deal with a 2015 Golf GTE, thing is over the life time of the car the engine still has an easier life, no idling - minimal low output operation. Of course if you're going to gun it, then get the engine running a bit before and give it an easier time.
Exactly what I was about to type. As someone who used the oil temp gauge on my GTI Golf MK1 as a reference and not the water temp gauge. You can get in this, drive far enough to forget the ic engine is cold and suddenly decide to be a hooligan and light up the poor petrol engine to 6k plus. Just another way car manufacturers will reduce rage life of our cars...like 30k first oil change on my Transit Sport...Nooo changed the oil at 6,000 and every 10 since.
Porsche PHEVs would always start the engine if ambient temperature is below 0 C. In addition, when the engine first kicks in, it will keep running until it's in the normal operating window. In effect, unless you always start the engine with very hard acceleration, it's not that different to normal cold start.
@@davewilshere I imagine the engine is warmed through though when it's gunning it - there are heat exchangers between the batteries and the engine oil/coolant - so it's not going flat out from totally cold as it were. Plus I'm sure the engine has been engineered with the particular usage profile in mind!
Thought exact the same thing when Harry floored it. But I think is up to the driver to control the driving mode and put some heat to engine in the first few miles. Otherwise would be just too violent for a cold engine to be reved like that.
Harry I always enjoy your videos and watch them all, you're a great engaging presenter, your editing, different angles and views of the car, inside and out are fabulous..
It seems to me that certain cars cause more distraction for the driver, trying to figure out how to use essential things like heaters and radio than if the driver was illegally texting on their phone. They've all jumped on the touchscreen fashion bandwagon and forgot about ergonomics and safety.
Yes; "new" for the sake of marketing and sales hasn't been "better" very often for the last several years; it's very frustrating that cars are getting worse in a lot of ways recently...
I wonder what the old guys who designed the Saab 900 dash would think?
@@EliteRock They'd be spinning in their graves, I drive a classic 900,I don't have to look for any controls, I know where they are and where they should be LOL.
Actually, to the average driver, this is not an issue after a short & quick learning curve. Touchscreen or otherwise controls, being in Auto, there’s no need to fiddle while driving. The issue of not paying attention while driving is a human issue: discipline. 2091 Audi TT Roadster is “old fashioned” driving. 2018 Ioniq PHEV is newer and early on it was tempting to “drive & learn” vs. learn/set when parked. But discipline won even with lane departure warning and emergency braking features. Thanks
@@Rhaman68 The problem isn't the "learning curve", it's the lack of any tactility whatsoever - *you can't operate a touch-screen by feel.* Is this hard to grasp (sic)?
My third time with this video as I’ve had my eye on the Panamera hybrid for some time. Harry’s comments and opinions are the best in the business. I would buy this car tomorrow based on my experience with my Boxster S and two GMC Yukon XL’s. Thank you.
I’m not sure I like the idea of setting off under then bringing in a cold ICE somewhere down the road. Does it have any software to cope with that problem?
Just what I was thinking! Cold engine and max revs up the hill will not make for a long engine life!
Can’t believe Porsche haven’t thought that question through as it’s pretty fundamental.
One thing I’ve wondered about with these hybrids is when the engine has to engage at a high rpm and give a lot of power on the motorway suddenly. Does it get warmed up a little in any way?
Does it warm the engine on E ready for when it's need?
a little bit with some waste heat from the inverter/motor, probably get you about 20 + ambient
Another great video Harry. Something to look forward to stuck at home in lockdown.
I believe it was Bacon who said “There is no sublime hideousness without some small beauty in the proportion.” I am only watching to see if I can spot that small beauty ... I guess the bonnet badge looks nice.
Seriously ugly barge. Awesome engineering but looks huge from every angle.
We have one visit the undercroft regularly in the apartment block i live in.
It is a big car but looks great from every angle, especially the rear three quarter view.
Really enjoyed how you ranted away on that touch-screen controlled vent.
The green of the badging clashes terribly with the maroon paint.
Can we go back to turn button heating and ventilation controls please, there must be some nice materials out there to make them look and feel better now
No exactly a looker is it? And I don't remember seeing a car that makes 21" tyres look so tiny!
Another good real world review, thanks Harry
Harry the definitive motoring brain ! Happy new year to you Sir. Could this be the ultimate cross Europe method? lol. It's funny Harry, when you were a student 0-60mph in 3+ seconds was considered racing car type performance !
Great video as always, I tested BMW I8 quire a few years back and that also ran on electric only up to 70mph I think, could be a good shout getting one of them back for a video to see how far hybrids have or haven’t moved on
Still don’t understand why anyone would buy one of these over a used 640d/A7 3.0tdi or 3.0 Panamera diesel. You could use the £70K cash left over to fuel it for the next 30 years.
Exactly. Then you're saving the planet by not buying a brand spanking new car off the production line
@@graygamingps4503 yep, just shut down all manufacturing and the planets saved
@@ericpisch2732 I never said that
Great video as always, I think the Sport Turismo will have some stiff competition when the Taycan Sport Turismo is available though.
I want one, love the look
Superb video, many thanks for the work.
That's re-focussed me away from the 4.0 V8 and on to the e-Hybrid. What amazing figures for economy and carbon emissions. Wonderful engineering.
Hi Harry , so when you have been driving in electric mode and need full power , is the engine cold ? If so how can this be any good for the engine ?
Hi, I’ve got a Merc plug in hybrid and I’ve gunned it a few times before warm, but I wouldn’t make a habit of it. It does get an oil change ever 10k though. Done nearly 100k without issue which really shocked me.
@@ciaranwebb6871 Hi thanks for the reply , I've often wondered this as I have an SLK55 weekend car with an oil temp read out. The water heats up quite quickly but the oil takes considerably longer. AMG say that you should not use full power if the oil is still cold. Food for thought isn't it ?
Thanks for another post for sanity Harry, as you say EV's are to early for the technology, they still have details to work out. Happy New Year Harry and Fam. Here's hoping for an exceptionally good spring on the farm, all the best!.
Out of the two, it would be the Panamera for me for a multitude of reasons. Maybe in 10 years when the charging situation and battery technology have improved drastically, I may reconsider.
There is no need to have a better battery or faster charging than a Taycan brings to the table really. I'm sure they will both still improve but Porsche has gotten it bang on with their first try. I'll have a Taycan over the Panamera any day of the week.
Also I've done Harwich to Scotland multiple times in my little Ioniq EV. Roadtrips aren't about laptimes, having a charge and being able to relax is not a bad part of the trip in my opinion.
The Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo is out to order in March 2021. Therefore if future Taycan owners would like a hatchback then wait until the Geneva motor show.
The one thing Harry this video neglects is the astronomical financial saving of buying the Taycan as a business owner. You can offset 15% of the Panamera cost against your business’s capital allowance in year 1, vs 100% of your capital allowance with the Taycan, added to which there are no BIK payments due to HMRC for either the owner or the business with the Taycan. For a high rate taxpayer who owns their business, that equates to a saving of around £30k for a profitable business for the Taycan vs the Panamera in year 1 of ownership alone. This has to be considered in reviews because it makes for a major consideration in purchasing decisions for business owners.
Think this is mentioned at the end
Keep watching to the end..
Obviously haven't seen previous videos from Harry then.
@@harrysgarage I appreciate you mention it at the end Harry. But £30k saving is worth more than what is effectively just a footnote comment at the end in my humble opinion. Most Panamera owners would choose a 911 over the Panamera if they didn’t need the space. Just as most Taycan owners running 1 or 2 cars would choose a 911 if it wasn’t for the tax saving. 911, Taycan and Panamera all fit different requirements.
@@doctorjonathanday agree! My family outgrew my 911 CarreraT and no way in hell I’d choos the BIG whale of a car that the Panamera is to replace the 911. The size of the Taycan is just superb fitting the needs of a motoring happy family of 2 adults and 2 teenagers. The styling is amazing. The economy outstanding. The performance IRL unbeatable and the handling almost on par with the 911. Fun factor 80-90% of the 911. The Taycan wins it every day of the year! Best car on sale today!🥇
Hey just a note. I do not think this car has sports exhaust.. according to the sticker shown it just has the exhaust tips. For 600 quid you only get the Tips LOL. The sport exhaust is more like 3k quid.
It's a Porsche station wagon and I don't care about any of the rest of it.
Seriously, I'd be very happy with the standard 4 Sport Turismo.
@@rickc2102 Absolutely. Even better if it can get some slightly beefier tires for dirt roads.
Happy New Year Harry. Great content as ever. Any chance you’ll be trying the Mustang Mach E? Would love your point of view, given your experiments...
Another great video! I would love to hear your thoughts on the BMW 330e or 530e?
Similar sort of product: 30 miles on electric but with 300bhp at £40K.
I know you have the X5e but thats a lot more expensive and bigger car.
Maybe the 3 / 5 series is a perfect middle ground?
330e Touring is the stuff of dreams!
I have to say I think the lines of the Taycan are better both in standard and Sport Turismo. The build on both is astonishing. I chose the Taycan and I was doing around 400 miles a weeks and some long journeys and when you know where the charging point are it is never an issue. You soon forget about the engine. If you want amazing engine sound and you can afford one of these cars, you could also ways have a 911 GT3 or a Caymen/Boxter GTS for weekend. Most of these cars are bought through the company so the tax advantage is the key. Hence the Taycan is the bests selling Porsche today. Great Video though Harry and love your style and reviews. Total respect for all you do! Thanks!
Too expensive for what it is, and seems maybe a bit characterless? Great Vid though, Harry. 👍🏻
Hi Harry, my father has just gone from the panamera E-Hybrid to the Taycan, he had nothing but problems with the Panamera. He said he would not go back to the Panamera and he has two of them now (first one was a diesel). Also large wheels on the panamera make an awful noise when turning the wheels when stationary.
I love this channel; anyone missing the BBC?
Great video. I just ordered that exact car in blue here in Minnesota. We get very cold and have very few charging options except at home. I have a 2018 Panamera 4e hybrid to sell/trade in and often times can go a thousand miles on a tank of gas because I live only 6 miles from work. But, as you noted, I can use this type car for long distance without range anxiety. Seriously considered a Taycan but, our electric charging infrastructure just isn’t there yet.
Phil
Little Falls, MN
That curb weight though, 2300kg's is mental. One question about all hybrids that just came to mind. When you are driving in electric mode and switch to the engine on won't the engine be cold and not lubricated fully yet, so won't the engine wear and possibly a head gasket failure if you drive spiritedly straight away? Normally when you have an ICE engine you let it idle for a little bit and then drive like normal, you let the engine coolant come up to temperature and then you can give it the beans. That doesn't seem to be the case with hybrid vehicles because you can be driving and then the engine turns on and you rev the snot out of it. Or have the engineers thought of this and lubricate and warm the engine before it even turns on?
Another sensible video from Harry, expected nothing else
5.5k revs when the engine first wakes up - I know it’s designed for it, but you’d have to wonder about the long-term prospects of these hybrid engines.
You cannot design an engine for this ...
This is just a rich person's toy. Saving the planet (ahem avoiding taxes) by buying a 2.3 ton luxury SUV ... lol. I figure they engineered this thing to take the abuse for a standard lease period.
@@detaart "You cannot design an engine for this ..." - what makes you think that? Other manufacturers have long engineered their engines for exactly this, but Porsche can't? Also for majority of users the engine will rarely ever run, so the longevity will be an order of magnitude longer than in any non-PHEV model.
"I figure they engineered this thing to take the abuse for a standard lease period." - porsche cars are statistically the longest surviving and used cars on the road today. They have exceptional longevity by any standard, easily beating any other manufacturer on the market. I'll eat my hat if this proves any different.
@@gambiting Metal expands when hot and contracts when cold. Why do you think you need to warm up a combustion engine?
Tell me how to make two pieces of moving dissimilar metal fit and mate perfectly no matter how cold or hot they get ... i'll wait.
The bulk of the wear to an engine happens during startup and cold running.
The engine might not run as much, but when it does, it's getting kicked in the nuts.
Porsche engines certainly are not bullet proof by any means. Bore scoring, ISM bearing, liners cracking, etc.
I hope you're hungry ...
@@detaart well you don't need to wait too long, because I'm happy to provide an answer right now. In my own XC60 PHEV when you're in pure electric mode the engine oil is circulated in the engine with an electric rather than belt driven oil pump, and is actually heated with an auxiliary heater so no, the engine doesn't start "cold" maybe except for the first minute or two after you get in the car, so same as any combustion engine car. To add to this the oil is 0W20 so it's practically water even at very low temperatures - no problems with insufficient viscosities here. So like, if Volvo can design a system that works for immediate startup at any point at any rpm....Porsche can't? Also, you're acting as if engines that start and run at max rpm don't exist - power generators do exactly this, you start it up and it goes to max RPM immediately without warm up. You know how that's done? Through good engineering alone, with modern machine precision you're not going to damage the engine in any way by going into high rpms without warming up. We don't run mineral oils with 20W50 viscosities anymore.
As an allrounder only car, would you go for this Panamera Hybrid, or the BMW X5 Hybrid.
Why do none of the Hybrids and the Battery powered Cars .. ever have a solar panel on the roof ?
Why should they?
Absolutamente!
@@leod9463 why not?
Toyota and Hyundai offered this some years ago. The panel doesn’t add enough energy to be useful. Toyota’s panel was used to run a fan to cool the interior while the car was parked. For that size panel, you could be parked up for the day in the sun and add 1 mile of range.
@@rvpsilva9213 because they produce not nearly enough energy to charge up the battery significantly. And most people prefer to have a sunroof. They would be gimmicks but not very useful
Harry, you make some good points. However, I think the answer is highly dependent on use case. I personally use a Tesla as my daily driver. I can charge at home and have no issues doing days of close to 200 miles without recharging. I’m far more efficient than any hybrid. And I really worry in a hybrid with the engine constantly cutting into life and going to hard throttle when stone cold.
We do have a diesel SUV with 600 miles plus range when we road trip though. And there are plenty of Superchargers where I love and road trip that it’s not a problem finding charging. I recognize that not everyone has this luxury.
I would posit that the plug in hybrid is far less stressful to live with....until you get used to owning a true long range EV. Once you do, the anxiety subsides and you discover it’s not as bad as you think.
Thanks for the great content and the thought provoking question.
Harry, you should explain how much a service would cost in the cars that you review! Word is that a Panamera service is 5000£. How do you justify that?
Word from who?
Total bollocks, it's about 500 the interim, 1000 the full service.
@@mikecraig8454 I'm sure some people just make this stuff up. Its as if they had never owned a Porsche before. I've always found them very reasonable considering the work involved and nowhere near £5k unless there is major work on.
Great video H, The world has gone mad and the car industry is following! I'd take the Lancia Fulvia and off grid living until it all blows over!
Never been a fan of big heavy cars, whatever the performance.
This is basically a fast Wagon. Never meant to be a light weight sports car. Practicality compromise.
I not sure about engine life if you regularly "squirt it up the hill" when the engine is stone cold?
He didn't say that the engine was "stone cold" at that stage.
@@nickturner2813 In fairness you are correct. I was making a more general point about hybrids and people ragging cold engines aftet bimbling along on EV power only.
Harry: for those who know Oxford and the Cotswolds, it would be a plus to know exactly where we are as we follow you in these lovely drives.
Absolutely huge isn't it?
innit *
Illuminating! Happy New Year, Harry!
Wow! Look at the swirl on that paintwork.....that's a Press car?
Have you never seen how the average journalist treats a press car?
Yes, it's a press car, not a demo car for customers.
You are actually missing the full sports exhaust on that car, there is just the black sport exhaust tips. If you would have PSE there is always an icon next to the spoiler icon on the central display. The sound is actually much better with the PSE. :)
Agreed, I also noticed that at 12 mins in. The quad tailpipes doesn’t necessarily mean the sports exhaust system has been spec’d. I activate mine on every journey! (Drives my wife mad 😆)
Brand new car and look at the state of the paint 😭 did someone wash it with a stick with rocks glued to it? 😭
This is why we wash cars properly
Cars are meant to be driven not kept clean
. I never clean my car
@@akashsarma8241 they’re also meant to be cleaned to prevent corrosion and to make them look nice. You can drive a car properly and wash it too
Plus my point wasn’t that the car was clean, it was that it had been washed BADLY and destroyed the paint
@@ipawdutube i agree you either driven or not. Where i live its difficult to keep a clean car
@@akashsarma8241 look into some really good waxes, sealants or even a ceramic coating if you wanna spring the money for it.
It’ll repel the water and dirt so it’ll take longer to get dirty or when it IS dirty, it’s easier to wash.
I’m from the UK so I’m not sure if you’ll be able to get your hands on these products but I get them all from Amazon so you might.
Collinite make some really good waxes, so do meguiars. Collinite 845 is VERY good.
Sonax brilliant shine detailer is also a great sealant that’s quick and easy to get on the car too.
Forensic Detailing here on TH-cam does a really good suggestions of waxes and sealants and that.
Might keep your car a bit cleaner mate
@@ipawdutube i drive skoda Octavia mark1 vrs with 160k miles its looks decent but it has scars from years of usage. Maybe when it hits 200k i may reward it