People seem to be stuck on the "No Selling food/drink", which is obviously meant to force venues to decline Locals, but I think the more important part is "Nintendo may request the cancellation of any Community Tournaments in its sole discretion..." basically, none of the guidelines actually matter and Nintendo can just stomp your event out for any reason or no reason at all. The Guidelines are meant to discourage events by being as restrictive as possible, but also leave a nice wide hole in the rules for Nintendo to stomp you out if it decides it doesn't like you banning Steve in Ultimate or they get annoyed with someone's Protest Tag. or because Nintendo needed to hit its misery quota.
The weirdest and most petty part of this to me is still the food and drink not being able to be sold. The way it's worded is even when you get a license from Nintendo you still can't sell food and drink which sounds like hell.
only nintendo can sell nintenfood and nintendrink at nintendo branded events featuring nintendo developed games being played on nintendo brand hardware
Only guess is it's an overreaction to the POSSIBILITY someone at a tourney could get sick from food or drink and Nintendo wants no one to wrongly point fingers at them. "Look we told them to not serve food or drink, not our fault someone got salmonella poisoning while playing Smash."
I dunno about the whole "why don't they move on to something else" bit. UMVC3 is currently being modded because people like that game, they like it more than Infinite, they wanna play as X-men characters, and they want to add their dream roster. There are still Diablo 2 players, there are still Brood War Players...just let people play the thing they like.
fighting games are one of the few genres where they could just drop the same 3 games on a rotational cycle for every new hardware iteration and call it a day, and people would be happier than if they were receiving brand new titles and franchise entries.
I think he's right when it comes to most genre of games. But saying there's anything out there that offers the simplicity of Smash on top of like a dream roster for most is a bit out of touch. It's the same with MvC3.
Sometimes, the novelty of something is enough for someone to get attached to, even if other games might offer something simillar, it lacks the personal connection you have with it. Despite how I talked about it, this doesn't have to be a bad thing, but it can prevent you from trying out stuff that you maybe didn't know you'd like before trying.
The only way to stand in opposition Nintendo’s actions is to not play their game though. It is Nintendo that is not letting people play the game they like. Pat isn’t suing anyone for organizing fighting game tournaments
The "you can't sell food or drinks" is what gets me. They hadn't said it yet, but I believe they would ban even free water and snacks being distributed. Anything that can kill tourneys from existing
The work around being "oh hey, we told the venue we are ok with others renting this space while we use it so long as they accept us as the primary user. Oh this other organizer not connected to us decided they wanted to set up food and beverage stations here."
@@In-The-ZoneThat doesn't work, if you rent out a venue you have control over what is bought and sold in the venue. If you ok food being bought at that venue you are violating the contract with Nintendo.
idunno that doesn't sound like a dealbreaker to me. i'm the kind of person who goes to see a band with two openers and doesn't buy any drinks, nevermind food
Why're you hung up on the food and drink terms. Nintendo's other term gives it the ability to just shut down any venue or tournament. So, it doesn't matter whether or not food and drinks are available.
My friends and I have always joked that the Big 3 all act like gangsters and Nintendo uniquely acts like the _"classic mob boss."_ They love to reminisce about how things were done in the good ol' days and are outwardly friendly to everyone but the second you piss them off, even ever so slightly or just once, they brutally whack you without any hesitation nor remorse.
@@Yohan99999 I thought I posted it but I don't see the response, so I'll post it again. Sony is the modern gangster, the "young gun" if you will. Basically _"Screw formalities, those are for chumps & suckers."_ They make it very clear that all you are to them is a source of income & they will ruin you if you cross them, but what they're peddling is real good so you can either accept that and enter a mutually beneficial business arrangement or stop wasting their time & look somewhere else. Microsoft is currently the "disgraced made guy." They used to have a lot of power, they used to act all high-and-mighty, and they used to be pretty respected until they made a huge mistake that knocked them down quite a lot of pegs in the hierarchy. They really can't afford any more trouble so now they're on their best behavior, going out of their way to do as many favors while being as friendly as possible to everyone as they hope to bide their time and reclaim their "rightful place." *BONUS:* Sega is the rehabilitated old timer. They got their start at the ground floor when this new business' foundations were being laid, they rose up pretty quick, but their sudden success brought them too many problems & made a lot of enemies too. They couldn't keep up with the stress, realized for their own sake it would be better to get out, and do some time. Now they mainly speak at events, laugh at the good memories, and even build bridges with old rivals to make them friends.
Wait till Pat and Woolie hear about the Gundam Metaverse hack where the CAD files for like 30+ gunpla were leaked day one. Including an as of yet to be announced MG of Kira’s new Freedom Gundam from the upcoming SEED movie. People have already started 3D printing pirated gunpla thanks to Bandai’s incompetence
I know why pat said it and I also know his feelings towards smash, but calling the community known for being complete psychos when it comes to traveling around the whole country to go to 20 person locals people who "need to leave their house" is kinda funny in an ironic way
Pat knows nothing about the community outside of the most outrageous shit that blows up past the community itself, and the stereotypes that form from those things (minus the “smell” bit, which is very likely more true of the bigger communities surrounding it, since nerds will always be nerds). And he knows it triggers a small group of his own fans, so he continues to double down whenever he’s blessed with the opportunity. I still love the evil little goblin, but goddamn he’s a broken record sometimes.
@@waffles7038 yeah I know, I find it really funny in a "you genuinely don't know what you're talking about" way. As if fighting game players weren't also the weirdo cousins of the already weirdo gamers
When I picked up my copy of Pikmin 4 the gamestop employee handed me my preorder bonus and it was a sealed envelope with a cease and desist order. I don't even know what they wanted me to stop doing.
I think Pat was kind of making a good point, but because he's Pat it just fell flat. But I just think at this point, it is clear being a "Pro Smash player" just isn't feasible since the creators of the game just don't want this stuff to exist. I'm not saying play SF since that has none if the elements that appeal to Smash fans, but I am saying that trying to make a career playing Smash is just not going to happen.
The difference is that Tekken would die completely in about ten minutes if this kind of shit was imposed on it. No migration to other games, no attempt to weasel out little tourneys on the downlow. Tekken fans would suddenly become an industry devoted solely to shitting on namco bandai for ruining Tekken, whereas Smash Melee still has people trying desperately to organize tourneys for it 25 years later despite the fact that nintendo is actively suing them to prevent it.
@@KotoRyu The difference is that Tekken players have a buffet of other places to go (like, you yourself used Tekken interchangeably with Street Fighter, which was what OP actually mentioned). What alternatives do Smash players have atm? The most viable seem to be Multiversus, which is owned by another, arguably even worse in other ways, nightmare-conglomerate Warner Bros. Discovery, Inc., and is apparently falling appart itself.
@@Painocus I regret to inform you that Tekken and Street Fighter are probably almost as different from each other as they are from Smash, but it barely matters. When namco and capcom make shitty games or make shitty decisions, you're going to hear about it and they're going to pay for it, and if either of them was so openly hostile to the idea of people enjoying their games as nintendo they'd have collapsed two console gens ago. Nintendo fans would stan nintendo if they were building a giant rocket to push the earth into the sun. And all you need to do to make your own Smash game is take Street fighter, add a jump button to activate a massive series of shitty, floaty jumps, limit everyone to 6 moves and zoom the camera out.
@@KotoRyu That shows an incredible lack of understanding of how both Smash and especially Street Fighter works. And I'm not a big fan of either. (Darkstalkers is my go-to fighthing game.) If you don't even know Street Fighter has jumping you are not equiped to have this discussion.
That guy *seriously* didn't know Street Fighter had jumping as part of its core fundamentals and is trying to have this argument; must be a smash tourney player.
Just a reminder to everyone: During the height of COVID, they slapped down Melee Slippi tournaments basically telling everyone "We would rather you die from getting the 'rona than play our games." Now they want to do it again with not being allowed to have food or drinks. While telling Disabled Timmy over there his third-party controller he actually needs to play the game because his hands don't function like they should that he's cheating. And this is from a company that once owned the Seattle Mariners straight up, an actual MLB team. Now they want to pretend you don't need money or food to run sports.
Everybody is forgetting that this isn't just about Smash: Splatoon, Pokken, actual mainline Pokemon games, etc are all impacted by stuff like this too, unless there's wierd legal stuff where Pokken and Pokemon titles are technically TPCI published and aren't under these rules.
@@zztzgza Aka, literally every single Nintendo event except that one official Pokemon circuit which actually knows how the Yu-Gi-Oh scene runs multiple game setups.
@@UltimaKeyMasterNo it means like tournaments some guy runs at a small shop or in a random high school classroom. Regionals and higher don’t follow these rules.
Pat, people don't stick to Smash because of an addiction to Nintendo products. I agree that most Nintendo fans are the equivalent of Disney adults, but most of them stick to Smash because of gameplay. Unlike traditional fighting games, the alternatives to Smash are generally shit and the fundamentals don't transfer well at all. You can't just tell them "Play something else" because their alternatives are lukewarm products like NASB or Multiversus that don't have as much depth. Rivals of Aether is the only one that has legitimate sticking power. Street Fighter is fun as hell and I love playing it, but I don't play it as a substitute for Melee.
Pat is also the same guy who laughed in Woolie's face as he was holding back tears over his Titanfall dream falling apart. For a guy that loves to bring up his psych major every chance he gets, it sometimes feels like he was that kid who bs'd his way through that degree. The way he reads these situations is so strange
Is competitive Smash finally entering it's own "prohibition" era? Sounds like it to me, but how would anyone keep any upcoming tourneys a secret in this age?
Project + has held many “shadow majors” close to the venues of very public major Smash tournaments. It’s not usually publicized by the tournament organizers until it actually takes place, but they’re usually hinted at. It can be done, but I’m gonna be real, I want as many TOs as possible to tell Nintendo to go fuck themselves and run their events anyway.
Wasn’t that the general air around the Melee community for the longest time? Like from what I remember looking in as an outsider it was a very prominent feeling of “Nintendo can and will drop the hammer on us with no warning.”
8:40 I’ve had to grow up with my elders and people my age going “Well rap is just dead” as I’ve stared at them square in the face going “Yeah, wow, it’s funny the radio mainly plays what’s popular rather than being absolutely concerned on content.” Seeing the same mentality applied to video games with those essays just make me feel whenever people get that sensation of being cynical about a genre of media because “it wasn’t as good as it used to be” they gave the fuck up because they think the best of the best should naturally be brought to them from the mainstream even though we’ve learned true difference for decades.
As weird as it feels, I agree with Pat on this one ? Haven't watched the entire thing yet but the fact that every few years we get a "Nintendo tries to kill tourneys" story makes me think that at some point, you just gotta let it go man. Does it suck for the folks passionate enough to fight Nintendo ? Of course it does but at some point, my pity / sympathy is starting to run dry.
@@violetshadowstone5250 Pat drone ? It's funny because my first sentence points out it feels weird for me to agree with Pat but OK, you keep fighting bud, I'm sure another 20 years will convince Nintendo to finally respect you.
Okay so the problem with Pat's "just play something else" and the D&D comparison is that there really isn't much competition with Smash? There is no game that does what Smash does on the scale that Smash does it. Multiversus seems to have died, Rivals of Aether is a small indie without the crossover aspect, and that's probably the best alternative. Smash fans aren't going to replace Smash with Street Fighter, because those aren't super comparable games. That's like telling D&D fans they should get into something like Mordheim now as a replacement for D&D.
Agreed. Playing Street Fighter vs playing Smash is the equivalent of playing a D20 ruleset vs playing a D6 exclusive ruleset. They might seem to be similar from a most basic observation, but outside of that they do not even remotely function the same once you get your hands on them and start playing. Anyone who argues different simply has a subjective taste for apples over oranges.
As someone who plays Smash religiously, we have trouble switching from other *Smash* games, let alone fighting games outside of Smash. The fights between Melee and Non-Melee, peeps who still do 64...
@@DaDMonDCB I mean, yeah sure, but that's the kind of difficulty and fights you get between, like, D&D editions. They might be very different, but the same fundamental core is there.
There's another aspect to this argument that I think Pat doesn't understand, in spite of all the problems with Smash, Call of Duty, D&D, whatever, people still really like the core concept and enjoy it enough to continue play it but are annoyed with it enough to complain about it. As someone who plays Pokemon, yeah, there are a ton of stupid bullshit things they do but I like the actual games enough to still play them. And I do think it's valid to not want to drop a franchise for an alternative because that alternative isn't the thing you already like. Like, it's cool we're seeing Pokemon clones that do different things, but that's not really ever going to make me stop liking Pokemon, because it's Pokemon, it's got all favorite critters. It's that meme of "That one's nice, but I like this one,"
It appears that actually getting the license for tournaments is much easier now. Many TOs for existing tournaments have been able to get licenses in just a few days- one Japanese TO said he got licenses for the next 10 iterations of his tournament. So this likely is not the death of competitive smash; instead, Nintendo is enforcing curfew. Guards are patrolling the streets and will be asking any children they spot playing with Nintendo Brand Toys for their licenses to be out this late.
with those "gaming is dying" videos i'm ultimately convinced that the people who make those videos just want a time machine so they can go back to being teenagers again. i also feel like most gaming youtubers have become no better than game journalists at this point.
@@dandragon01 most of them rely on the same formulas and tricks that game journalists rely on (i.e. sensationalist content, clickbait, overly opinionated editorials, etc.) the only real difference is that they're more cynical & jaded (because that's a popular tone for content) while journalists are trying to shill you something that somebody paid big bucks for them to shill.
The saddest thing about nintendo is how dissonant it is, Their devolopers will whip out some of the best games, properties, and designs that just ooze, encourage, and inspire incredible creativity while at the same time it's buisness people are just stomping out all creative thought, letting some of its best be lost to the sands of time, and canceling every alternate way people can enjoy their properties. And I think this is kinda why we see some people stick with nintendo despite all the abuse they've faced, it's because they know that another part of them loves them with their very soul.
While I don't agree with Pat on there being other games like Smash due to that IMPOSSIBLE roster, he is VERY spot on on the people who outright REFUSE to play other games that give the exact same thing they're looking for and will look at the games like Call of Duty as representative of the entire gaming industry.
It happens way more with Melee than with the other smash games. Many top smash players do play other games not only on streams but also competitively. Melee players tho, that's a fucking cult.
bethesda RPGs are were i see it the most. don't like the current direction of TES? okay then why don't you play something like ultima, dragon's dogma, kingdom come or might & magic as an alternative? don't like bethesda's take on fallout? why not play wasteland, metro, STALKER, RAGE, underrail or outer worlds? think starfield didn't live up to the hype? have you heard of elite dangerous or no man's sky? it's either like alternatives don't exist for these people or they just can't let go.
I remember as younger dude, that nintendo actually had or maybe still has pokemon vgc tournments, which were big events yet never advertised on tv or anywhere else, for pros mainly. But they did have actual sponsored shit and never talked about it. But, when someone else hosts a tournament, they throw a fit and it ends up being public only becuase of the bullshit outrage. Pretty ironic.
Didn't the recent Pokemon World Championships have that whole scandal where a bunch of dudes used hacked pokemon? Maybe that's why Nintendo is pretty antsy about tourneys?
The thing was that the pokemon weren't even hacked to boost their stats. It was purely to avoid spending tens of hours (and or however much money) getting each mon with the stats and mood then running them through each game. They -really- should just have a special set up for tournaments to avoid all this shit.
@@1wayroad935 it's always been an open secret that most competitive players use hacks to generate tourney legal Pokemon to avoid the excessive grinding required to obtained them legitimately; it's been a thing for as long as the means we're available.
The fact that around the time this happened Nintendo also took down as splatoon trailer featuring an arena of people watching competitive splatoon is just amazing. A writer doing this would get called out for being too on the nose.
Wait are you serious!? I remember everyone laughing at that trailer for being something Nintendo would never allow and it sounds like they agreed and realized their "mistake".
@@Kango234 I truly think Nintendo would’ve committed to that competitive ideal of their games if ARMS had taken off like they obviously thought it would.
IIRC that video being removed doesn't have anything to do with what's going on now. Trying to find a source now but I hear it was a music licensing issue.
Linus of Linus Tech Tips fame is going to run this by a lawyer to see if this is as legally unenforceable as he thinks it is. If he can get away with it, he wants to run a tournament that openly violates as many of these rules as possible.
Here's the thing though, if you're a nintendo fan in the sense that you buy nintendo's games because you like nintendo's games, this doesn't intersect with you at all. Like "Nintendo won't let Melee tourneys exist" isn't good, but it's also a non sequitr if all you're doing is buying tears of the kingdom because you like Zelda. It's a problem that's a non-problem for 99% of fans, realistically way more than that. The "how can Nintendo fans possibly defend this or accept this?" Is such a hollow complaint.
@@leomahmet7555 You say that, but their games are still good and I, as a customer, have no problem purchasing and enjoying those products. So I’m saying your sentiment is a touch dramatic despite Nintendo’s lamer antics.
@@BareBandSubscriptionwell not dramatic, Nintendo acts like a spoiled brat, but the thing is, unfortunately the whole japanese gaming industry acts like spoiled brats, it's cultural and the law have their backs so unlike Disney asking for you to stop funding their tantrums will do nothing.
I'll give Nintendo credit, their constant doing dirty of the Smash community got me to check out Rivals of Aether, a game I appreciate even if only on a casual level of "Mess around with the endless mode that has character modifiers, play bot matches, and adore the soundtrack while getting wrecked online by people who are better than me at platform fighters."
yeah, it's why we shit on all the sports games since before recent high schoolers were F-ing BORN. they literally weren't alive when shit was good but "oh SPORTS" is what drives sports game sales
What really drives sports games sales are all the millions of people who only have the money or time for one game. The easiest thing to get that covers a lot of bases? Sports games. The annual release schedule of those games don't matter to them if it's the only game they buy for a whole year.
@@1wayroad935 Yeah, but no one would even say those games are good anymore like people used to. I remember people being fucking stoked to play.....I think if was NFL2K2? Whichever one was before the one I remember being hilariously shitty for some weird reason. Now, it's basically "Hey we took that game you like, took everything out, and made it so you have to pull a slot machine to get the players you want back. And also we're going to redo that every 18 months with the exact same game."
Another key component is Nintendo fans, regardless of their outrage, always go back to Nintendo. Doesn't matter what happens, they always consume more. Capcom went through a pretty bad era, where they seemed to fumble around their IP's, and allowed others like Tekken to really surge, until Capcom refocused itself and is now pumping out quality again. Honestly, Smash is one of Nintendo's biggest titles and will always garner hype and sales. The community, and especially melee, is so below their radar that they do this because they know for a fact that it won't hurt them in any significant way. Sad to see, and ofc I'm not on Nintendo's side, but Nintendo fans will keep buying the product no matter what.
@@CanterlotCrusader There is also the factor that there will always be new kids being brought up. Who do parents turn to usually for games for kids? Nintendo. They will never run out of audience.
@@CanterlotCrusader Capcom fans are the same, they will defend any bullshit from capcom especially if it comes from their fighting games. SFV lasted that long because a bunch of fanboys wanted gaslight themselves into thinking SFV wasnt awful, also pumping quality again? ehhhhh.........some games were fine others not so much... We are not getting the capcom from the 90s and early 2000s ever again.
@@CanterlotCrusaderthe thing is Capcom could actually go bankrupt meanwhile Nintendo has the casual market in a stranglehold basically having infinite money
Anyone can pick up a fighting game and learn, but regardless of this fact, the "average" smash player doesn't play at tournaments and won't be affected by this at all.
Woolie, I'm sure you know this since you're a fan but Gundam Battle Operation 2 has been putting out a new unit every single week, without fail, since 2018. One of the most downloaded free to play games on PSN and is now available on Steam too.
I don't think people are diehard about smash because of the roster or nintendo brand loyalty, I might be wrong but I assume its because of the way it plays and how theres no other comparable gameplay of equivalent quality in any other game yet. Like it's technically a fighting game but the way smash plays isn't done by anything else and people are hooked to that, the wb and the nickelodian ones aren't there yet and the indie ones are in the same boat, as soon as they do I'm under the assumption everyone would move on over. I'm probably wrong though I mean WoW is still doing great no matter how fucked things get over there even though there are plenty of other ships to swim to.
Part of me wonders if this is a response to the Global Panda fiasco that happened a lil while back. Like Nintendo went "Welp, we tried one way, didnt pan out, burn it all doen" type of deal. Because this affects ALL Nintendo tournaments, from splatoon to mario kart to smash.
Thing is, i would gladly stop playing melee and ultimate if there actually was a game that fully scratched that itch. Like yeah you got Rivals of aether and nik all stars but it just isn't the same. Saying "just play another game" is kinda just null, at least until we get an actual melee/ultimate replacement.
I feel this. I started playing fighting games about 4 years ago and since I began playing GG AC+R nothing else has really hooked me as hard. I know there are plenty of other games that are as technical and have movement as good if not better than the game but I just love it so much in spite of the character strength being insanely high that I can't give it up
Why does nintendo still get treated as if they are different from all the other companies? Surely the mask has dropped of years ago yet they still have that air off like (No no this is the one that actually cares about you).
Nintendo is old, and Tears of the Kingdom doesn’t have loot boxes. Being weirdly litigious isn’t going to effect the average gamer as much as if Mario games were as broken as Sonic games.
They stay away from things that can be seen as negative by the general public. Remember, everyone here are weirdos who follow the industry all the time. The overwhelming vast majority of people don't care about the things we hate Nintendo for.
Bad doesn't mean the same is the easy answer. Look, Nintendo has done scummy things for a long time, they've screwed plenty of people. Heck if you know anything about the industry you should know them screwing people over made Playstation just to fight back on them. But they've never literally driven a female worker to suicide like Blizzard did. Just to name one, extreme, incident. Nintendo's issues are "different" that doesn't mean "better", but they are "different".
@@1wayroad935 Yep! People really don't realize maybe like 5% hell even being super generous and going 10% of Nintendo fans actually know and care about what's going on. It's in the extremely large scale is such a non factor.
In 50 years the news headline will read "Nintendo sensing Cease and Desist to tournament organizers who think about Super Smash Bros." thanks to the Nintendo Gunch Mindwaver accessory which is, according to terms of service, mandatory to wear 24 hours per day for up to 6 months before eligibility to purchase a console is granted on a per customer basis.
Nintendo operates their company and utilizes their products in exactly the same way a religious organization or cult does, which is not uncommon by modern standards and was really brought into prominence by Facebook and Zuckerberg literally telling people to operate businesses like cults to drive fear of nonconsumption in a culture dominated and focused around the act of consumption determining who you are and what social circles you are allowed to operate within
My guess is that because they are planning on showing the next iteration of switch soon they're being overly conservative and want to have presence at every tournament in order to get the word out like they did at whatever games conference just happened where all the journos played it
Nintendo is just preemptively avoiding any possible future scandals relating to Smash players and minors. Not really their fault that it keeps happening.
Competitive Smash _does_ seem to repeatedly get involved in scandals… I can’t think of any other scenes with as many problems that aren’t the corpos being the ones wetting the bed.
@@hyperon_ion9423 Street Fighter players kinda just resolve things themselves. God help you if you try anything on minors in the middle of all those thugs.
During a brief period of time when it looked like they were starting to embrace eSports more they actually made a highlight video for a pro player. The pro player was outed as a predator, and Nintendo immediately took down the video highlighting him.
Kit bashing can cover a wide spectrum of things. Yeah you can have the Zaku Zeta, but you can also use the AGE-2 Double Bullet to stuff maximum dakka onto a Heavyarms
im not really sure i get the vibes here, it kind of seems like "fuck nintendo for these bullshit rules, but really fuck you for playing a nintendo game, stop playing nintendo game and go play a different nintendo game instead"? like you literally said "why dont you just stop playing smash bros and go start playing ToK instead?" like what's that supposed to accomplish? stop enjoying your favorite game and just give all your money to nintendo. that will show them.
Re: the sports game thing, the release of ESPN 2k4 (i think) was the death knell of football, at least. That was the last year there was any competition, because the next year EA made the winning bid to exclusive rights for all NFL sports licenses, and none of the other companies saw any point to making football games that couldn't use players or teams likenesses or names. Sure, the NFL was fishing around for a buyer anyway, but I think it's telling that EA made that bid in a year when other competing football games were closely competing with (or in ESPN 2k4's case, outshining) Madden. There used to be competition in the sports game space, now there's only stagnant monopolies; of course the games keep getting worse.
What Pat doesn't understand is that smash players don't really have anything else. No, janky indie games with vaguely similar gameplay are not the same Even putting that aside, I'm willing to bet if I looked back I would find the exact opposite opinion being given about what that one MvCI dev said about Magneto
I can guarantee that's a Discord or Woolie setting. The man goes crazy trying to make his audio the best it could possibly be on his stream and it doesn't happen there.
@@EHKOS I feel like I have, but I can't remember offhand right now. In any case, feel free to mentally update my complaint such that it points at the entity that is ACTUALLY responsible :)
More like Smash players who play nothing but Smash. I saw MFs saying they don't play other games because they literally just tried lesser Smash clones and no other actual fighting games. Like it's stupid just play something else you god damn cave dwelling incels.
Its honestly fine, just dont become an elitist is all and complain when things get stale. (thats for those weird fps people that say that gaming has become stale)
Gundam Evolution is just depressing to me. It wasn't the glacial progression that pushed me away. It was the complete inability to get a match started because if someone left the game would cancel the match and make you have to start the selection process over again.
I disagree with most if not all of Nintendo’s creator’s policy and the fan games they keep spiting on and snapping out of existence, BUT I AM HONESTLY ECSTATIC at them clapping back at the smash community the smash community deserves it, can’t take a shower, keep shiting your pants, can’t keep your hands away from kids and lying about serious situations Screw the smash community Nintendo is wrong about tons of things but this, this is something I full heartedly support
I am not a lawyer but as far as I know Nintendo doesn't have the legal right to do this and those "terms and conditions" are not legally binding, they will likely send a cease and desist but there is no way they would even attempt to sue because of the legal fees. Nintendo and many other companies especially Japanese companies seem to have this idea that copyright law gives them complete control over how their product gets used and they seem to want to keep things difficult to obtain maybe they want to create scarcity and have things in their back pocket or maybe they want to force people to be in this constant cycle of buying the new thing but regardless they don't like people enjoying their past work in present day. Honestly it's just sad not because it means less tournaments but because they have such an overwhelmingly bad relationship with their "consumers" and they are trying to force copyright which is already significantly worse than it needs to be ( Personally I think any form of copyright is bad but 100 years of "control" is completely ridiculous and everyone knows it. ) to be even worse to an extremely scary degree, their end goal is not protecting their intellectual property it is the destruction of all culture they can't control. Decisions like this don't make any sense they don't profit from this in fact it probably hurts their profits, there is no way they will get what they want and if they do it will just hurt everyone including themselves. Honestly I think this is just done on purpose with the intent to hurt people while completely disregarding their own public image and profits.
God Gundam Evo hurts so much Gundam Overwatch is such a cool concept, but, to quote the monarchs of the castle themselves, "they refuse to acknowledge the existence of the ball"
It's worth noting bandai has a history of killing games quickly if they aren't making money and making absolute trash. Gundam battle operation 2 may be one of the longest running Gundam games so far.
I think the community just really fucked up with the whole Panda thing. When they Nintendo finally started endorsing the scene the scene showed why they shouldn’t. Smash is still the biggest fighting game by millions without tournaments so I don’t think Nintendo would risk their image being tarnished by smash players.
The Nintendo Stegosaurus has once again breached the surface of the sea of mutagen ooze after declining ever consuming said ooze. I can’t imagine how bad it’s gotta suck for all the smash homies to know that at any point, the company can and seemingly will just shut down any of your events for whatever reason without any notice. Don’t let them eat you guys.
The epiphany of "Back when everyone was yuck, japan, but Battlefield tho" coinciding with the best cod and battlefield games, fills me with some form of catharsis. At the time I hated those games with a passion, mainly because of that mentality, now, if I were to go play them, they'd probably be SO good! XD Still not a fan of FPS, but I can appreciate things I don't like. Meanwhile, (goes back to playing Sea of Stars)
If you're gonna have tournaments that Nintendo doesn't want happening - do them under the table. If your tournament gets big enough to be noticed, then C&D'd by Nintendo - then you know it's time to rebrand and restart People act like this is something new, but these people have been dealing with Nintendo's BS for decades now, and they should clearly know how to circumnavigate the BS.
@@diegomedina9637 I know this sounds crazy but fans of the CROSSOVER series have played other games. Smash players have preferred games just like any other fanbase.
Nintendo! With the spear hand! Goes into the gut of the tournament community and just leaves some intestine hanging! Nintendo! Killer of dreams!😂 They had to. People were just making too much money but then I think, it was getting out of hand. Smash specifically. The top guys couldn't keep their hands out of the cookie jar. They keep going back in the age bracket for fresh talent(if you know what I mean). Tournament organizers keep picking their favorite personalities. Protecting them. Nintendo's simplest move was to cut em off. I feel Nintendo is setting up to sue tournaments who clear a certain dollar amount.
Btw these rules are only for community tournaments which basically means like your small locals. Licensed tournaments and majors don’t follow these rules and have much less restriction on what they’re allowed to do.
I really hope this is the end of people holding Smash or Pokemon tournaments. Even in situations where Nintendo would allow it, they need to be shown that this behavior is only going to hurt their player-base, and their bottom line.
If by player-base, you mean your average Joe-Schmoe casual gamer, then no. It won't hurt their player-base as much as you think it would. Nor their bottom line. Because you see, the competitive players, make up only 5% of their fanbase, in all of it's entirety. And the only ones that would be hurting, is only the competitive players, which arguably isn't much of a loss at all. That's the reality of it, and you're just gonna have to live with that.
There's not a lot of crossover between their audiences but I suggest people also watch Ludwig's (Mogul Mail) video on this too as Nintendo for a JP tournament actually licenses and approved tournaments within a days time so doesn't seem to be a big deal in terms of getting permission from them (still scummy overall though won't dispute that) but who knows how that will go on the NA side and elsewhere
Someone already said this in the comments but why don’t you smash players just make speakeasy tournies? Like why announce it to the world where the ever watchful eye of Nintendo sees all? Everyone finds out when things are popping off through a grapvine of sorts. I don’t know but this is how Nintendo rolls. I’ve been burnt by them twice… now I’m fucking with the emulator so😜🖕🏾Nintendo
See, this sounds like a good idea on paper, except for the fact that everyone is online now and there's _no way_ somebody wouldn't just snitch on anyone doing it. The only reason they haven't slammed Emulators any harder is because they have no target they can aim at. Emulation can just disappear and reappear basically anywhere. Tournaments... not so much. The community balls you'd need to do that kind of thing just don't seem to exist anymore, anyways. The Smash community is _not_ the FGC, despite how much they want to act like it. The FGC wouldn't give a flying fuck about something like this, and most of the companies under it know that, which is why they don't really care. The FGC _is_ fighting games, and those developers leverage that. Nintendo doesn't need to, so they can dictate things how they want.
Man despite how much I wanted to see Ez-8, Kampfer and Gouf Custom, they took too damn long for one and secondly they can kiss my grits with how insanely grindy it was to actually unlock suits by playing. You absolutely needed to drop money to get those suits and I honestly didn't like the game THAT much to spend money on it. It was a Gundam skinned Overwatch at the end of the day. America doesn't get Gundam at all outside of Wing nostalgia and team classed based fps are a dime a dozen.
I really don't get Nintendo here. Regardless of how I feel about whether Smash is a pro fighting game or not or the debate if Melee/Brawl/Ultimate is the best version. They could make a fuck ton of money in making official Smash tournaments and for the life of me I don't get as to why they don't. And when the community does it on its own Nintendo keeps interfering like there IS an actual sanction tournament.
Man, why did you name this segment, "Again." This should be named Nintendo Hates You & Your Tourney FOREVER. We hear more about Nintendo tournaments being canceled or C&D'd than we do them going through successfully nowadays.
I get genuinely annoyed everytime someone tells a smash player "jUsT pLaY sTrEeT FiGhTeR lol lol lol lol" Are people genuinely confused on the difference between a 2D fighter and a platform fighter? Because i think Pat is
@@fullmetalbleachnote Yeah don't give me that bullshit when you're the one crying about it. Did Nintendo ruined your enjoyment of Smash Bros? Good then stop playing it and move on with your life or something.
@diegomedina9637 I'm sorry did you say something? I can't seem to hear you over all the playing whatever the hell I want to lmao. You have one life btw, don't waste it screaming at strangers on the internet over what games they should play.
The thing about smash is unless you're into fighting games, the character rosters are just an endless parade of "literally *who?*" Like yeah people know the Ryus and the Sub-Zeros but most of the characters are "hey here's this character you've never heard of before isn't he so cool???" Like frankly I have no interest in playing as a character I'm not already a fan of. Admittedly the Fire emblem cross-promo characters in smash got a lot of that.
If Nintendo fans (mostly smash bros fans) were smart they'd just go do anything else and have a better experience than trying to get a company that actively hates them to hate them less. It's just not going to happen.
People seem to be stuck on the "No Selling food/drink", which is obviously meant to force venues to decline Locals, but I think the more important part is "Nintendo may request the cancellation of any Community Tournaments in its sole discretion..."
basically, none of the guidelines actually matter and Nintendo can just stomp your event out for any reason or no reason at all. The Guidelines are meant to discourage events by being as restrictive as possible, but also leave a nice wide hole in the rules for Nintendo to stomp you out if it decides it doesn't like you banning Steve in Ultimate or they get annoyed with someone's Protest Tag. or because Nintendo needed to hit its misery quota.
Underground Nintendo fight clubs when? (if not already)
@@PixelatedFluPretty sure that's already a thing. You just need to find the correct bathroom that dudes have smuggled the portable CRT into.
You know Capcom's community guidelines have the same thing, right?
A "we reserve the right to tell you to fuck off for any reason" is pretty standard.
@@conspiracypanda1200Right next to the Melty Blood stall.
The weirdest and most petty part of this to me is still the food and drink not being able to be sold. The way it's worded is even when you get a license from Nintendo you still can't sell food and drink which sounds like hell.
only nintendo can sell nintenfood and nintendrink at nintendo branded events featuring nintendo developed games being played on nintendo brand hardware
Only guess is it's an overreaction to the POSSIBILITY someone at a tourney could get sick from food or drink and Nintendo wants no one to wrongly point fingers at them. "Look we told them to not serve food or drink, not our fault someone got salmonella poisoning while playing Smash."
@@BloodRedFox2008 nah it's because nintendo doesn't want anyone to profit off of their platform, they're a classic monopoly type company
That actually might be illegal under certain circumstances.
@@theotherjared9824 it's only illegal if the food is nintendo branded
I dunno about the whole "why don't they move on to something else" bit. UMVC3 is currently being modded because people like that game, they like it more than Infinite, they wanna play as X-men characters, and they want to add their dream roster. There are still Diablo 2 players, there are still Brood War Players...just let people play the thing they like.
fighting games are one of the few genres where they could just drop the same 3 games on a rotational cycle for every new hardware iteration and call it a day, and people would be happier than if they were receiving brand new titles and franchise entries.
They're allowed, just not in a non nintendo tournament
I think he's right when it comes to most genre of games. But saying there's anything out there that offers the simplicity of Smash on top of like a dream roster for most is a bit out of touch. It's the same with MvC3.
Sometimes, the novelty of something is enough for someone to get attached to, even if other games might offer something simillar, it lacks the personal connection you have with it.
Despite how I talked about it, this doesn't have to be a bad thing, but it can prevent you from trying out stuff that you maybe didn't know you'd like before trying.
The only way to stand in opposition Nintendo’s actions is to not play their game though. It is Nintendo that is not letting people play the game they like. Pat isn’t suing anyone for organizing fighting game tournaments
The "you can't sell food or drinks" is what gets me.
They hadn't said it yet, but I believe they would ban even free water and snacks being distributed. Anything that can kill tourneys from existing
The work around being "oh hey, we told the venue we are ok with others renting this space while we use it so long as they accept us as the primary user. Oh this other organizer not connected to us decided they wanted to set up food and beverage stations here."
@@In-The-ZoneThat doesn't work, if you rent out a venue you have control over what is bought and sold in the venue. If you ok food being bought at that venue you are violating the contract with Nintendo.
idunno that doesn't sound like a dealbreaker to me. i'm the kind of person who goes to see a band with two openers and doesn't buy any drinks, nevermind food
No hydration! Lawsuit!
Why're you hung up on the food and drink terms. Nintendo's other term gives it the ability to just shut down any venue or tournament. So, it doesn't matter whether or not food and drinks are available.
Pat comparing Nintendo fans to Disney adults is spot on. Mascot and merch driven company that depends on obnoxious superfans. It's super accurate
Some people choose to purchase their personality, others develop it naturally
@@Vanity0666Jesus Christ
@@ngmajora6986indeed
Or people just like their games? Like wow, I liked Mario Wonder, good to know I'm an "obnoxious superfans" you judgmental jerk.
Idk, I just like their games
My friends and I have always joked that the Big 3 all act like gangsters and Nintendo uniquely acts like the _"classic mob boss."_ They love to reminisce about how things were done in the good ol' days and are outwardly friendly to everyone but the second you piss them off, even ever so slightly or just once, they brutally whack you without any hesitation nor remorse.
It's funny, me and my brother also have this headcanon. It really is just the impression they give off.
Incredibly, back in the day Nintendo was *even worse.* Absolute mob boss behavior.
I'm curious now, what are you and your friends' interpretation of the other 2? What's their style?
How are the other two then?
@@Yohan99999 I thought I posted it but I don't see the response, so I'll post it again. Sony is the modern gangster, the "young gun" if you will. Basically _"Screw formalities, those are for chumps & suckers."_ They make it very clear that all you are to them is a source of income & they will ruin you if you cross them, but what they're peddling is real good so you can either accept that and enter a mutually beneficial business arrangement or stop wasting their time & look somewhere else.
Microsoft is currently the "disgraced made guy." They used to have a lot of power, they used to act all high-and-mighty, and they used to be pretty respected until they made a huge mistake that knocked them down quite a lot of pegs in the hierarchy. They really can't afford any more trouble so now they're on their best behavior, going out of their way to do as many favors while being as friendly as possible to everyone as they hope to bide their time and reclaim their "rightful place."
*BONUS:* Sega is the rehabilitated old timer. They got their start at the ground floor when this new business' foundations were being laid, they rose up pretty quick, but their sudden success brought them too many problems & made a lot of enemies too. They couldn't keep up with the stress, realized for their own sake it would be better to get out, and do some time. Now they mainly speak at events, laugh at the good memories, and even build bridges with old rivals to make them friends.
Nintendo making a party game for people to play together then when people play together they go "NO NOT LIKE THAT!"
Wait till Pat and Woolie hear about the Gundam Metaverse hack where the CAD files for like 30+ gunpla were leaked day one. Including an as of yet to be announced MG of Kira’s new Freedom Gundam from the upcoming SEED movie. People have already started 3D printing pirated gunpla thanks to Bandai’s incompetence
I know why pat said it and I also know his feelings towards smash, but calling the community known for being complete psychos when it comes to traveling around the whole country to go to 20 person locals people who "need to leave their house" is kinda funny in an ironic way
Pat knows nothing about the community outside of the most outrageous shit that blows up past the community itself, and the stereotypes that form from those things (minus the “smell” bit, which is very likely more true of the bigger communities surrounding it, since nerds will always be nerds). And he knows it triggers a small group of his own fans, so he continues to double down whenever he’s blessed with the opportunity. I still love the evil little goblin, but goddamn he’s a broken record sometimes.
@@waffles7038to be fair, that’s not just a pat thing, that’s also a Paige and Woolie thing
@@waffles7038 yeah I know, I find it really funny in a "you genuinely don't know what you're talking about" way.
As if fighting game players weren't also the weirdo cousins of the already weirdo gamers
@@wumbojet "you genuinely don't know what you're talking about" being a very familiar concept.
@@EKVideogames that's like 30% of the reasons I've watched for almost 10 years
When I picked up my copy of Pikmin 4 the gamestop employee handed me my preorder bonus and it was a sealed envelope with a cease and desist order. I don't even know what they wanted me to stop doing.
You know exactly what you did.
I think Pat was kind of making a good point, but because he's Pat it just fell flat. But I just think at this point, it is clear being a "Pro Smash player" just isn't feasible since the creators of the game just don't want this stuff to exist. I'm not saying play SF since that has none if the elements that appeal to Smash fans, but I am saying that trying to make a career playing Smash is just not going to happen.
The difference is that Tekken would die completely in about ten minutes if this kind of shit was imposed on it. No migration to other games, no attempt to weasel out little tourneys on the downlow. Tekken fans would suddenly become an industry devoted solely to shitting on namco bandai for ruining Tekken, whereas Smash Melee still has people trying desperately to organize tourneys for it 25 years later despite the fact that nintendo is actively suing them to prevent it.
@@KotoRyu The difference is that Tekken players have a buffet of other places to go (like, you yourself used Tekken interchangeably with Street Fighter, which was what OP actually mentioned). What alternatives do Smash players have atm? The most viable seem to be Multiversus, which is owned by another, arguably even worse in other ways, nightmare-conglomerate Warner Bros. Discovery, Inc., and is apparently falling appart itself.
@@Painocus I regret to inform you that Tekken and Street Fighter are probably almost as different from each other as they are from Smash, but it barely matters. When namco and capcom make shitty games or make shitty decisions, you're going to hear about it and they're going to pay for it, and if either of them was so openly hostile to the idea of people enjoying their games as nintendo they'd have collapsed two console gens ago.
Nintendo fans would stan nintendo if they were building a giant rocket to push the earth into the sun. And all you need to do to make your own Smash game is take Street fighter, add a jump button to activate a massive series of shitty, floaty jumps, limit everyone to 6 moves and zoom the camera out.
@@KotoRyu That shows an incredible lack of understanding of how both Smash and especially Street Fighter works. And I'm not a big fan of either. (Darkstalkers is my go-to fighthing game.) If you don't even know Street Fighter has jumping you are not equiped to have this discussion.
That guy *seriously* didn't know Street Fighter had jumping as part of its core fundamentals and is trying to have this argument; must be a smash tourney player.
Just a reminder to everyone: During the height of COVID, they slapped down Melee Slippi tournaments basically telling everyone "We would rather you die from getting the 'rona than play our games."
Now they want to do it again with not being allowed to have food or drinks. While telling Disabled Timmy over there his third-party controller he actually needs to play the game because his hands don't function like they should that he's cheating.
And this is from a company that once owned the Seattle Mariners straight up, an actual MLB team. Now they want to pretend you don't need money or food to run sports.
Everybody is forgetting that this isn't just about Smash: Splatoon, Pokken, actual mainline Pokemon games, etc are all impacted by stuff like this too, unless there's wierd legal stuff where Pokken and Pokemon titles are technically TPCI published and aren't under these rules.
The guidelines are for community organized events.
@@zztzgza Aka, literally every single Nintendo event except that one official Pokemon circuit which actually knows how the Yu-Gi-Oh scene runs multiple game setups.
@@UltimaKeyMasterNo it means like tournaments some guy runs at a small shop or in a random high school classroom. Regionals and higher don’t follow these rules.
Pat, people don't stick to Smash because of an addiction to Nintendo products. I agree that most Nintendo fans are the equivalent of Disney adults, but most of them stick to Smash because of gameplay. Unlike traditional fighting games, the alternatives to Smash are generally shit and the fundamentals don't transfer well at all. You can't just tell them "Play something else" because their alternatives are lukewarm products like NASB or Multiversus that don't have as much depth. Rivals of Aether is the only one that has legitimate sticking power.
Street Fighter is fun as hell and I love playing it, but I don't play it as a substitute for Melee.
Pat is also the same guy who laughed in Woolie's face as he was holding back tears over his Titanfall dream falling apart. For a guy that loves to bring up his psych major every chance he gets, it sometimes feels like he was that kid who bs'd his way through that degree. The way he reads these situations is so strange
@@RedStar_N7pat is Canadian darksydephil
Is competitive Smash finally entering it's own "prohibition" era? Sounds like it to me, but how would anyone keep any upcoming tourneys a secret in this age?
Project + has held many “shadow majors” close to the venues of very public major Smash tournaments. It’s not usually publicized by the tournament organizers until it actually takes place, but they’re usually hinted at. It can be done, but I’m gonna be real, I want as many TOs as possible to tell Nintendo to go fuck themselves and run their events anyway.
Wasn’t that the general air around the Melee community for the longest time? Like from what I remember looking in as an outsider it was a very prominent feeling of “Nintendo can and will drop the hammer on us with no warning.”
8:40 I’ve had to grow up with my elders and people my age going “Well rap is just dead” as I’ve stared at them square in the face going “Yeah, wow, it’s funny the radio mainly plays what’s popular rather than being absolutely concerned on content.”
Seeing the same mentality applied to video games with those essays just make me feel whenever people get that sensation of being cynical about a genre of media because “it wasn’t as good as it used to be” they gave the fuck up because they think the best of the best should naturally be brought to them from the mainstream even though we’ve learned true difference for decades.
Good old Pat, feeling bad for the people who want to run the tournament but still calling those people idiots for wanting to fight for it...
This is a case of Pat's brain vs Pat's heart.
As weird as it feels, I agree with Pat on this one ? Haven't watched the entire thing yet but the fact that every few years we get a "Nintendo tries to kill tourneys" story makes me think that at some point, you just gotta let it go man.
Does it suck for the folks passionate enough to fight Nintendo ? Of course it does but at some point, my pity / sympathy is starting to run dry.
@@hondshoven8477
Good old pat drones.
Gotta have some even when he says the most stupidest things around
@@violetshadowstone5250 Pat drone ? It's funny because my first sentence points out it feels weird for me to agree with Pat but OK, you keep fighting bud, I'm sure another 20 years will convince Nintendo to finally respect you.
@@hondshoven8477 I can see your stance. I still say fight the power lol
Okay so the problem with Pat's "just play something else" and the D&D comparison is that there really isn't much competition with Smash? There is no game that does what Smash does on the scale that Smash does it. Multiversus seems to have died, Rivals of Aether is a small indie without the crossover aspect, and that's probably the best alternative. Smash fans aren't going to replace Smash with Street Fighter, because those aren't super comparable games. That's like telling D&D fans they should get into something like Mordheim now as a replacement for D&D.
Agreed. Playing Street Fighter vs playing Smash is the equivalent of playing a D20 ruleset vs playing a D6 exclusive ruleset. They might seem to be similar from a most basic observation, but outside of that they do not even remotely function the same once you get your hands on them and start playing. Anyone who argues different simply has a subjective taste for apples over oranges.
Nick All Stars Brawl 2 has an opprotunity to do something hilarious.
As someone who plays Smash religiously, we have trouble switching from other *Smash* games, let alone fighting games outside of Smash. The fights between Melee and Non-Melee, peeps who still do 64...
@@DaDMonDCB I mean, yeah sure, but that's the kind of difficulty and fights you get between, like, D&D editions. They might be very different, but the same fundamental core is there.
There's another aspect to this argument that I think Pat doesn't understand, in spite of all the problems with Smash, Call of Duty, D&D, whatever, people still really like the core concept and enjoy it enough to continue play it but are annoyed with it enough to complain about it.
As someone who plays Pokemon, yeah, there are a ton of stupid bullshit things they do but I like the actual games enough to still play them. And I do think it's valid to not want to drop a franchise for an alternative because that alternative isn't the thing you already like. Like, it's cool we're seeing Pokemon clones that do different things, but that's not really ever going to make me stop liking Pokemon, because it's Pokemon, it's got all favorite critters. It's that meme of "That one's nice, but I like this one,"
It appears that actually getting the license for tournaments is much easier now. Many TOs for existing tournaments have been able to get licenses in just a few days- one Japanese TO said he got licenses for the next 10 iterations of his tournament.
So this likely is not the death of competitive smash; instead, Nintendo is enforcing curfew. Guards are patrolling the streets and will be asking any children they spot playing with Nintendo Brand Toys for their licenses to be out this late.
Yeah basically they want more control over it which isn't the worst thing but boy does it feel like it with how thye laid things out.
with those "gaming is dying" videos i'm ultimately convinced that the people who make those videos just want a time machine so they can go back to being teenagers again.
i also feel like most gaming youtubers have become no better than game journalists at this point.
Im curious to see what you mean by that second statement. How have they become like gaming journalists?
@@dandragon01 most of them rely on the same formulas and tricks that game journalists rely on (i.e. sensationalist content, clickbait, overly opinionated editorials, etc.) the only real difference is that they're more cynical & jaded (because that's a popular tone for content) while journalists are trying to shill you something that somebody paid big bucks for them to shill.
The saddest thing about nintendo is how dissonant it is, Their devolopers will whip out some of the best games, properties, and designs that just ooze, encourage, and inspire incredible creativity while at the same time it's buisness people are just stomping out all creative thought, letting some of its best be lost to the sands of time, and canceling every alternate way people can enjoy their properties.
And I think this is kinda why we see some people stick with nintendo despite all the abuse they've faced, it's because they know that another part of them loves them with their very soul.
While I don't agree with Pat on there being other games like Smash due to that IMPOSSIBLE roster, he is VERY spot on on the people who outright REFUSE to play other games that give the exact same thing they're looking for and will look at the games like Call of Duty as representative of the entire gaming industry.
It happens way more with Melee than with the other smash games. Many top smash players do play other games not only on streams but also competitively. Melee players tho, that's a fucking cult.
bethesda RPGs are were i see it the most.
don't like the current direction of TES? okay then why don't you play something like ultima, dragon's dogma, kingdom come or might & magic as an alternative?
don't like bethesda's take on fallout? why not play wasteland, metro, STALKER, RAGE, underrail or outer worlds?
think starfield didn't live up to the hype? have you heard of elite dangerous or no man's sky?
it's either like alternatives don't exist for these people or they just can't let go.
I remember as younger dude, that nintendo actually had or maybe still has pokemon vgc tournments, which were big events yet never advertised on tv or anywhere else, for pros mainly. But they did have actual sponsored shit and never talked about it.
But, when someone else hosts a tournament, they throw a fit and it ends up being public only becuase of the bullshit outrage. Pretty ironic.
Didn't the recent Pokemon World Championships have that whole scandal where a bunch of dudes used hacked pokemon?
Maybe that's why Nintendo is pretty antsy about tourneys?
The thing was that the pokemon weren't even hacked to boost their stats. It was purely to avoid spending tens of hours (and or however much money) getting each mon with the stats and mood then running them through each game.
They -really- should just have a special set up for tournaments to avoid all this shit.
Bro that's all handled by the pokemon company nintendo is just the publisher
Pokémon still has its tournaments, though that's mostly ran through GameFreak/TPCi; Nintendo is pretty hands-off with Pokémon.
@@1wayroad935 it's always been an open secret that most competitive players use hacks to generate tourney legal Pokemon to avoid the excessive grinding required to obtained them legitimately; it's been a thing for as long as the means we're available.
The fact that around the time this happened Nintendo also took down as splatoon trailer featuring an arena of people watching competitive splatoon is just amazing. A writer doing this would get called out for being too on the nose.
Wait are you serious!? I remember everyone laughing at that trailer for being something Nintendo would never allow and it sounds like they agreed and realized their "mistake".
@@Kango234 I truly think Nintendo would’ve committed to that competitive ideal of their games if ARMS had taken off like they obviously thought it would.
@@Yeetbc commenting on this just to shit on ARMS that shit was ass
IIRC that video being removed doesn't have anything to do with what's going on now. Trying to find a source now but I hear it was a music licensing issue.
Nintendo would sue a child for having a Mario themed room
Linus of Linus Tech Tips fame is going to run this by a lawyer to see if this is as legally unenforceable as he thinks it is. If he can get away with it, he wants to run a tournament that openly violates as many of these rules as possible.
Will this be before or after they address the sexual harassment allegations
Here's the thing though, if you're a nintendo fan in the sense that you buy nintendo's games because you like nintendo's games, this doesn't intersect with you at all. Like "Nintendo won't let Melee tourneys exist" isn't good, but it's also a non sequitr if all you're doing is buying tears of the kingdom because you like Zelda. It's a problem that's a non-problem for 99% of fans, realistically way more than that. The "how can Nintendo fans possibly defend this or accept this?" Is such a hollow complaint.
So you are saying that smash players should bomb their local amazons?
In an argument of Pat vs Nintendo both are wrong at the same time somehow.
Not an uncommon occurrence around these parts
Nothing can be more wrong than Nintendo lol, their existance is a shame for every consumer that evee supported them, just like Disney.
@@leomahmet7555
You say that, but their games are still good and I, as a customer, have no problem purchasing and enjoying those products. So I’m saying your sentiment is a touch dramatic despite Nintendo’s lamer antics.
@@BareBandSubscriptionwell not dramatic, Nintendo acts like a spoiled brat, but the thing is, unfortunately the whole japanese gaming industry acts like spoiled brats, it's cultural and the law have their backs so unlike Disney asking for you to stop funding their tantrums will do nothing.
@@ricardomiles2957
Oh, so it’s _Nintendo_ acting like a spoiled brat. Interesting.
Pat with the clutch "Otaku Simulator" pitch
I'll give Nintendo credit, their constant doing dirty of the Smash community got me to check out Rivals of Aether, a game I appreciate even if only on a casual level of "Mess around with the endless mode that has character modifiers, play bot matches, and adore the soundtrack while getting wrecked online by people who are better than me at platform fighters."
Nintendo seems to want to be in full control of how people consume their media. Which, in the age of the internet, isn't really possible.
It’s crazy and impressive at the same time.
Friendly reminder that Sakurai also hates you and he LOVES fighting games
In today's episode: Pat says "Characters are just functions"
No, nuance. He says: "don't save her, she don't wanna be saved"
yeah, it's why we shit on all the sports games since before recent high schoolers were F-ing BORN. they literally weren't alive when shit was good but "oh SPORTS" is what drives sports game sales
What really drives sports games sales are all the millions of people who only have the money or time for one game. The easiest thing to get that covers a lot of bases? Sports games. The annual release schedule of those games don't matter to them if it's the only game they buy for a whole year.
@@1wayroad935 That they can then force you to use loot boxes to unlock the players you want for.
@@KotoRyu Hey, it's been working for over a decade now.
@@1wayroad935 Yeah, but no one would even say those games are good anymore like people used to. I remember people being fucking stoked to play.....I think if was NFL2K2? Whichever one was before the one I remember being hilariously shitty for some weird reason. Now, it's basically "Hey we took that game you like, took everything out, and made it so you have to pull a slot machine to get the players you want back. And also we're going to redo that every 18 months with the exact same game."
Nintendo is richer and more successful then Capcom that they can do this and not backroll
Another key component is Nintendo fans, regardless of their outrage, always go back to Nintendo. Doesn't matter what happens, they always consume more.
Capcom went through a pretty bad era, where they seemed to fumble around their IP's, and allowed others like Tekken to really surge, until Capcom refocused itself and is now pumping out quality again.
Honestly, Smash is one of Nintendo's biggest titles and will always garner hype and sales. The community, and especially melee, is so below their radar that they do this because they know for a fact that it won't hurt them in any significant way.
Sad to see, and ofc I'm not on Nintendo's side, but Nintendo fans will keep buying the product no matter what.
@@CanterlotCrusader There is also the factor that there will always be new kids being brought up. Who do parents turn to usually for games for kids? Nintendo. They will never run out of audience.
@@CanterlotCrusader Capcom fans are the same, they will defend any bullshit from capcom especially if it comes from their fighting games.
SFV lasted that long because a bunch of fanboys wanted gaslight themselves into thinking SFV wasnt awful, also pumping quality again? ehhhhh.........some games were fine others not so much...
We are not getting the capcom from the 90s and early 2000s ever again.
@@CanterlotCrusader I dont understand what this means fully.
I feel like this can be applied to any company.
@@CanterlotCrusaderthe thing is Capcom could actually go bankrupt meanwhile Nintendo has the casual market in a stranglehold basically having infinite money
Pat is actually insane if he thinks the average smash players would play much less survive in other games
I guess Leffen is an exception?
Leffen is and was always more then a smash player also I made a mistake with my comment I meant the average player lol
@@Mr.Faust3 True enough then.
Anyone can pick up a fighting game and learn, but regardless of this fact, the "average" smash player doesn't play at tournaments and won't be affected by this at all.
idk good amount of them play dragon ball and street fighter 6 now
Woolie, I'm sure you know this since you're a fan but Gundam Battle Operation 2 has been putting out a new unit every single week, without fail, since 2018. One of the most downloaded free to play games on PSN and is now available on Steam too.
19:12 LOL can someone link me that Kamiya moment?
seconded!
I don't think people are diehard about smash because of the roster or nintendo brand loyalty, I might be wrong but I assume its because of the way it plays and how theres no other comparable gameplay of equivalent quality in any other game yet. Like it's technically a fighting game but the way smash plays isn't done by anything else and people are hooked to that, the wb and the nickelodian ones aren't there yet and the indie ones are in the same boat, as soon as they do I'm under the assumption everyone would move on over. I'm probably wrong though I mean WoW is still doing great no matter how fucked things get over there even though there are plenty of other ships to swim to.
Part of me wonders if this is a response to the Global Panda fiasco that happened a lil while back. Like Nintendo went "Welp, we tried one way, didnt pan out, burn it all doen" type of deal. Because this affects ALL Nintendo tournaments, from splatoon to mario kart to smash.
At this point I’m shocked they continue to develop anything with multiplayer in it… /j
I'm shocked you think multiplayer games need to have tournaments. Never played Mario Kart?
@@1wayroad935I've got a little bit of bad news
They hate tourneys, not party style multiplayer games.
They only want "multiplayer" so far as "the whole family sitting in front of the TV".
It was a joke lol- sorry I should put /j forgot to do that
Thing is, i would gladly stop playing melee and ultimate if there actually was a game that fully scratched that itch. Like yeah you got Rivals of aether and nik all stars but it just isn't the same. Saying "just play another game" is kinda just null, at least until we get an actual melee/ultimate replacement.
I feel this. I started playing fighting games about 4 years ago and since I began playing GG AC+R nothing else has really hooked me as hard. I know there are plenty of other games that are as technical and have movement as good if not better than the game but I just love it so much in spite of the character strength being insanely high that I can't give it up
The clown in your pfp is very fitting
@@greatskullz6166 wow rude
Why does nintendo still get treated as if they are different from all the other companies? Surely the mask has dropped of years ago yet they still have that air off like (No no this is the one that actually cares about you).
Nintendo is old, and Tears of the Kingdom doesn’t have loot boxes. Being weirdly litigious isn’t going to effect the average gamer as much as if Mario games were as broken as Sonic games.
They stay away from things that can be seen as negative by the general public. Remember, everyone here are weirdos who follow the industry all the time. The overwhelming vast majority of people don't care about the things we hate Nintendo for.
Bad doesn't mean the same is the easy answer.
Look, Nintendo has done scummy things for a long time, they've screwed plenty of people. Heck if you know anything about the industry you should know them screwing people over made Playstation just to fight back on them.
But they've never literally driven a female worker to suicide like Blizzard did. Just to name one, extreme, incident.
Nintendo's issues are "different" that doesn't mean "better", but they are "different".
@@1wayroad935 Yep! People really don't realize maybe like 5% hell even being super generous and going 10% of Nintendo fans actually know and care about what's going on. It's in the extremely large scale is such a non factor.
In 50 years the news headline will read "Nintendo sensing Cease and Desist to tournament organizers who think about Super Smash Bros." thanks to the Nintendo Gunch Mindwaver accessory which is, according to terms of service, mandatory to wear 24 hours per day for up to 6 months before eligibility to purchase a console is granted on a per customer basis.
Nintendo operates their company and utilizes their products in exactly the same way a religious organization or cult does, which is not uncommon by modern standards and was really brought into prominence by Facebook and Zuckerberg literally telling people to operate businesses like cults to drive fear of nonconsumption in a culture dominated and focused around the act of consumption determining who you are and what social circles you are allowed to operate within
My guess is that because they are planning on showing the next iteration of switch soon they're being overly conservative and want to have presence at every tournament in order to get the word out like they did at whatever games conference just happened where all the journos played it
Nintendo is just preemptively avoiding any possible future scandals relating to Smash players and minors. Not really their fault that it keeps happening.
That's bullshit and you know it
Lol
Competitive Smash _does_ seem to repeatedly get involved in scandals… I can’t think of any other scenes with as many problems that aren’t the corpos being the ones wetting the bed.
@@hyperon_ion9423 Street Fighter players kinda just resolve things themselves. God help you if you try anything on minors in the middle of all those thugs.
During a brief period of time when it looked like they were starting to embrace eSports more they actually made a highlight video for a pro player. The pro player was outed as a predator, and Nintendo immediately took down the video highlighting him.
Did this man say Gale-ing himself as in detonating the magical nuke inside of him? What the fuck does Pat draw that kind of power from?
What’s confusing to me is the timing. The next Smash game probably isn’t until 2026, & Splatoon 3 has less than a year of support left.
Kit bashing can cover a wide spectrum of things. Yeah you can have the Zaku Zeta, but you can also use the AGE-2 Double Bullet to stuff maximum dakka onto a Heavyarms
Oh that Nintendosaurus eating tourney players and taking food out of the children’s mouths
Underground Kart Races, wahoo!
im not really sure i get the vibes here, it kind of seems like "fuck nintendo for these bullshit rules, but really fuck you for playing a nintendo game, stop playing nintendo game and go play a different nintendo game instead"? like you literally said "why dont you just stop playing smash bros and go start playing ToK instead?" like what's that supposed to accomplish? stop enjoying your favorite game and just give all your money to nintendo. that will show them.
Re: the sports game thing, the release of ESPN 2k4 (i think) was the death knell of football, at least. That was the last year there was any competition, because the next year EA made the winning bid to exclusive rights for all NFL sports licenses, and none of the other companies saw any point to making football games that couldn't use players or teams likenesses or names. Sure, the NFL was fishing around for a buyer anyway, but I think it's telling that EA made that bid in a year when other competing football games were closely competing with (or in ESPN 2k4's case, outshining) Madden. There used to be competition in the sports game space, now there's only stagnant monopolies; of course the games keep getting worse.
I am LITERALLY building a 30 Minute Missions kit as I listen to this
What Pat doesn't understand is that smash players don't really have anything else. No, janky indie games with vaguely similar gameplay are not the same
Even putting that aside, I'm willing to bet if I looked back I would find the exact opposite opinion being given about what that one MvCI dev said about Magneto
love 2 hear half of what pat is saying because he can't be bothered to fucking fix his mic's automuting
I can guarantee that's a Discord or Woolie setting. The man goes crazy trying to make his audio the best it could possibly be on his stream and it doesn't happen there.
@@EHKOS I feel like I have, but I can't remember offhand right now. In any case, feel free to mentally update my complaint such that it points at the entity that is ACTUALLY responsible :)
I feel like the real problem is Smash players are Nintendo players who only play Nintendo games. Which are the worst types of gamers ever.
Smassh players play other games?
Yeah...no system elitism outside of Nintendo lovers...clearly...
More like Smash players who play nothing but Smash. I saw MFs saying they don't play other games because they literally just tried lesser Smash clones and no other actual fighting games. Like it's stupid just play something else you god damn cave dwelling incels.
Its honestly fine, just dont become an elitist is all and complain when things get stale. (thats for those weird fps people that say that gaming has become stale)
Gundam Evolution is just depressing to me. It wasn't the glacial progression that pushed me away. It was the complete inability to get a match started because if someone left the game would cancel the match and make you have to start the selection process over again.
Copyright was a mistake
I disagree with most if not all of Nintendo’s creator’s policy and the fan games they keep spiting on and snapping out of existence, BUT I AM HONESTLY ECSTATIC at them clapping back at the smash community the smash community deserves it, can’t take a shower, keep shiting your pants, can’t keep your hands away from kids and lying about serious situations
Screw the smash community Nintendo is wrong about tons of things but this, this is something I full heartedly support
Reddit moment
I am not a lawyer but as far as I know Nintendo doesn't have the legal right to do this and those "terms and conditions" are not legally binding, they will likely send a cease and desist but there is no way they would even attempt to sue because of the legal fees. Nintendo and many other companies especially Japanese companies seem to have this idea that copyright law gives them complete control over how their product gets used and they seem to want to keep things difficult to obtain maybe they want to create scarcity and have things in their back pocket or maybe they want to force people to be in this constant cycle of buying the new thing but regardless they don't like people enjoying their past work in present day.
Honestly it's just sad not because it means less tournaments but because they have such an overwhelmingly bad relationship with their "consumers" and they are trying to force copyright which is already significantly worse than it needs to be ( Personally I think any form of copyright is bad but 100 years of "control" is completely ridiculous and everyone knows it. ) to be even worse to an extremely scary degree, their end goal is not protecting their intellectual property it is the destruction of all culture they can't control.
Decisions like this don't make any sense they don't profit from this in fact it probably hurts their profits, there is no way they will get what they want and if they do it will just hurt everyone including themselves. Honestly I think this is just done on purpose with the intent to hurt people while completely disregarding their own public image and profits.
They’re gonna have to start making speakeasy’s just for tournaments.
They aren't many good Platform Fighters right now, that's why people just play Smash. They're completely diferent games
God Gundam Evo hurts so much
Gundam Overwatch is such a cool concept, but, to quote the monarchs of the castle themselves, "they refuse to acknowledge the existence of the ball"
It's worth noting bandai has a history of killing games quickly if they aren't making money and making absolute trash. Gundam battle operation 2 may be one of the longest running Gundam games so far.
The only other one is Gundam Vs IIRC. And that is mainly for Japanese fans.
I think the community just really fucked up with the whole Panda thing. When they Nintendo finally started endorsing the scene the scene showed why they shouldn’t. Smash is still the biggest fighting game by millions without tournaments so I don’t think Nintendo would risk their image being tarnished by smash players.
Sounds like PlayStation all stars is gonna get revived 😂
The Nintendo Stegosaurus has once again breached the surface of the sea of mutagen ooze after declining ever consuming said ooze.
I can’t imagine how bad it’s gotta suck for all the smash homies to know that at any point, the company can and seemingly will just shut down any of your events for whatever reason without any notice. Don’t let them eat you guys.
"Gael-ing myself" -- travelling to the Ringed City to consume the Dark Soul?
The epiphany of "Back when everyone was yuck, japan, but Battlefield tho" coinciding with the best cod and battlefield games, fills me with some form of catharsis.
At the time I hated those games with a passion, mainly because of that mentality, now, if I were to go play them, they'd probably be SO good! XD
Still not a fan of FPS, but I can appreciate things I don't like.
Meanwhile, (goes back to playing Sea of Stars)
Pat I can reach out and touch this device that is playing a video about smash bros...
Wait what's that sound-
Pat absolutely nails it. Nintendo absolutely has the "Disney adults" fan base.
Pat is waging a war against living Nintendo Soyjaks
Ok so is this better or worse than the “Thuggery Ban” from Capcom
If you're gonna have tournaments that Nintendo doesn't want happening - do them under the table.
If your tournament gets big enough to be noticed, then C&D'd by Nintendo - then you know it's time to rebrand and restart
People act like this is something new, but these people have been dealing with Nintendo's BS for decades now, and they should clearly know how to circumnavigate the BS.
What if we just have a tournament and tell Nintendo to eff off.
As far as Melee is concerned, NOTHING ELSE SCRATCHES THE ITCH. WE AIN'T FUCKING MOVIN'.
melee is sick
How do you know if you're just focused on playing the exact same game for 20+ years?
@@diegomedina9637 I know this sounds crazy but fans of the CROSSOVER series have played other games. Smash players have preferred games just like any other fanbase.
@@Brandonious15987maybe said series has always been shit and you should play an actual fighting game instead of Nintendo branded pigslop
@@Yohan99999 If you care about what video game people play your priorities are fucked.
Street Vol. II ruled, pat's a real one for that
It is morally okay to pirate Nintendo's games. In fact, it is the objectively superior way to play them.
Says you! I'm buying my copy of Xenoblade 3 to support Monolithsoft *and* pirating it to be able to play it on my Steam Deck!
Ugh, no. Stop that.
You gotta do that with every company then
It is morally okay to pirate what ever you want, buddy.
Nintendo! With the spear hand! Goes into the gut of the tournament community and just leaves some intestine hanging!
Nintendo! Killer of dreams!😂
They had to. People were just making too much money but then I think, it was getting out of hand. Smash specifically. The top guys couldn't keep their hands out of the cookie jar.
They keep going back in the age bracket for fresh talent(if you know what I mean).
Tournament organizers keep picking their favorite personalities. Protecting them. Nintendo's simplest move was to cut em off.
I feel Nintendo is setting up to sue tournaments who clear a certain dollar amount.
Btw these rules are only for community tournaments which basically means like your small locals. Licensed tournaments and majors don’t follow these rules and have much less restriction on what they’re allowed to do.
I really hope this is the end of people holding Smash or Pokemon tournaments. Even in situations where Nintendo would allow it, they need to be shown that this behavior is only going to hurt their player-base, and their bottom line.
Pokemon ran officially
@@hibiki8473cool it with the name calling, okay?🤨
@@BigSisterNeko there I changed it for your hurt whittle feelings
If by player-base, you mean your average Joe-Schmoe casual gamer, then no. It won't hurt their player-base as much as you think it would. Nor their bottom line. Because you see, the competitive players, make up only 5% of their fanbase, in all of it's entirety. And the only ones that would be hurting, is only the competitive players, which arguably isn't much of a loss at all.
That's the reality of it, and you're just gonna have to live with that.
Gundam evolution Will be going down with a bang😢
>Gundam Evolution
>Adds Zeta Gundam and Kampfer.
>Dies
Dammit
@@1wayroad935 going down with content from two of the best gundam series’s. Zeta. And war in the pocket
It hurts.
What's this recent interview Kamiya did? I'm trying to find it.
Edit: Nevermind. I found it.
The Moon channel has done an interesting video about this topic called: "A Lawyer Analyzes Nintendo’s Tournament Guidelines"
On this episode of Company vs Smelly child toucher community…
Can’t really blame Nintendo after what was exposed about the smash community.
"I'm not totally sold on the idea that we actually went to the moon"?
There's not a lot of crossover between their audiences but I suggest people also watch Ludwig's (Mogul Mail) video on this too as Nintendo for a JP tournament actually licenses and approved tournaments within a days time so doesn't seem to be a big deal in terms of getting permission from them (still scummy overall though won't dispute that) but who knows how that will go on the NA side and elsewhere
Someone already said this in the comments but why don’t you smash players just make speakeasy tournies? Like why announce it to the world where the ever watchful eye of Nintendo sees all? Everyone finds out when things are popping off through a grapvine of sorts. I don’t know but this is how Nintendo rolls. I’ve been burnt by them twice… now I’m fucking with the emulator so😜🖕🏾Nintendo
See, this sounds like a good idea on paper, except for the fact that everyone is online now and there's _no way_ somebody wouldn't just snitch on anyone doing it. The only reason they haven't slammed Emulators any harder is because they have no target they can aim at. Emulation can just disappear and reappear basically anywhere. Tournaments... not so much. The community balls you'd need to do that kind of thing just don't seem to exist anymore, anyways.
The Smash community is _not_ the FGC, despite how much they want to act like it. The FGC wouldn't give a flying fuck about something like this, and most of the companies under it know that, which is why they don't really care. The FGC _is_ fighting games, and those developers leverage that. Nintendo doesn't need to, so they can dictate things how they want.
Man despite how much I wanted to see Ez-8, Kampfer and Gouf Custom, they took too damn long for one and secondly they can kiss my grits with how insanely grindy it was to actually unlock suits by playing.
You absolutely needed to drop money to get those suits and I honestly didn't like the game THAT much to spend money on it. It was a Gundam skinned Overwatch at the end of the day. America doesn't get Gundam at all outside of Wing nostalgia and team classed based fps are a dime a dozen.
look at that purple gamecube in the thumbnail.
my version of GAMING IS DYING is people on youtube desperate to let me know that the Total War series is dying. like ok dude, touch grass for real lol
So, Pat uses the term "soyjack" unironically these days. Ugh.
I really don't get Nintendo here. Regardless of how I feel about whether Smash is a pro fighting game or not or the debate if Melee/Brawl/Ultimate is the best version. They could make a fuck ton of money in making official Smash tournaments and for the life of me I don't get as to why they don't. And when the community does it on its own Nintendo keeps interfering like there IS an actual sanction tournament.
I'd love it if Nintendo has angered so many people, they file a lawsuit. Crowdfund it and all.
You wouldn't download a mobile suit, would you?
Man, why did you name this segment, "Again."
This should be named Nintendo Hates You & Your Tourney FOREVER. We hear more about Nintendo tournaments being canceled or C&D'd than we do them going through successfully nowadays.
I get genuinely annoyed everytime someone tells a smash player "jUsT pLaY sTrEeT FiGhTeR lol lol lol lol"
Are people genuinely confused on the difference between a 2D fighter and a platform fighter? Because i think Pat is
Then play anything other than a god damn platform fighter then.
@@diegomedina9637 nope
Cry about it lil bro
@@fullmetalbleachnote Yeah don't give me that bullshit when you're the one crying about it. Did Nintendo ruined your enjoyment of Smash Bros? Good then stop playing it and move on with your life or something.
@diegomedina9637 I'm sorry did you say something? I can't seem to hear you over all the playing whatever the hell I want to lmao.
You have one life btw, don't waste it screaming at strangers on the internet over what games they should play.
@@diegomedina9637How can this bother you? How does someone enjoying a game hurt you?
"how bout we do anyway"
The thing about smash is unless you're into fighting games, the character rosters are just an endless parade of "literally *who?*" Like yeah people know the Ryus and the Sub-Zeros but most of the characters are "hey here's this character you've never heard of before isn't he so cool???" Like frankly I have no interest in playing as a character I'm not already a fan of.
Admittedly the Fire emblem cross-promo characters in smash got a lot of that.
there's almost no fighting game characters in smash what are you talking about.
@@ufusnakehe’s still butthurt about Byleth.
@@ufusnake no I meant other fighting games that have to make their own characters.
If Nintendo fans (mostly smash bros fans) were smart they'd just go do anything else and have a better experience than trying to get a company that actively hates them to hate them less. It's just not going to happen.
lmao, copyright isn't real