I love her strength & how she said the shame goes to those men not her. There's no reason any woman should feel any type of shame in a case like this. It's a very outdated way of thinking.
There needs to be a clear line drawn. Unless someone gives actual consent- then it is either sexual assault or if the sex act is performed - then it is rape. This should be taught in all secondary schools. France needs to educate their children. The sentencing is far too lenient- these perpetrators have actually gone on to do the same assault on their own wives and partners. It’s horrendous
I think we can teach kids that they have ownership over their own bodies and they do not have ownership over anyone else’s. We can teach them that even if they get married, although some decisions may be made together, one can never make a decision about the other’s body if the other is not involved in making that decision. These basic concepts can even be taught in elementary school.
It was more like 90 men, but they located 50 men to arrest, charge, etc. Further, of the 90 men who did “show up” to participate, and did, only 3 had a “change of heart,” and refused to “participate.” Zero men “reported” what was going on, though. And to think women gestate and give birth to such creatures…
I always tell men what they say is not appropriate and I always protect myself, don’t go to their places and have my boundaries very clear, for them, I’m the problem
@@Alex.1765from information I read, her husband used a prescription medication of his own to drug her. He used 3 to 10 times the prescribed amount and surreptitiously mixed it into her food or drink. She suffered memory loss and other terrifying symptoms; she feared she had a brain tumor or Alzheimer’s. He drove her to appointments with doctors and encouraged her belief that she was ill.
@@Alex.1765One of the rapists sold drugs on that website, so there you go. But, I think, a good doctor, that cares for women, should investigate further, if the patient experiences same symptoms for so long!!!😮😢
In Singapore, caning is a form of corporal punishment. I never understood what level of crime warranted such extend of punishment. Now I do! Dominique Pelicot shud be thankful he only got 20 yrs. The judicial system shud have made an example of him - 1 yr for each rape! Where is the justice?!
Then the judge , the media, the lawyers, the legislators, the male spectators not present all identify with the criminals and not the victim... that's the hardest challenge for our society.
The defence lawyer should be sentenced as well, at the min counselled. His defence was not a defence. There really was none but he chose the most disgusting way to defend the clients now appropriately found guilty.
This isn't a women's issue when women don't have a voice to start with. Put the impetus back on these dysfunctional men. Take your own personal self accountability. Then go heal other women and teach each other how to raise their children healthily.
I think these men should not only be convicted of rape, but also of putting someone's life in danger by drugging her and giving her infections (one of these men even had AIDS!). The husband forbade the use of condoms!!!! How evil can one be? These men agreed with this condition, even though they had infections (like one had AIDS!). Luckily, Gisele did not get aids, but she got other infections. It is not only the psychological harm, but also the harm to her health and the fact that she could die of an overdose or an infection. Yes, they should add consent in the law, but I also agree that this would not fix everything.
I traveled in France earlier this year, and it’s a lovely country. However it’s the only country in Europe where I’ve ever had “scammers” put hands on me. It happened on two separate occasions, and I literally had to have bystanders help me extricate myself from the situations. Not once, in any other country I have traveled, have I had people put their hands on me like that! It was very disheartening, and I hope it is not indicative of France as a whole and only of the particular people I encountered. Thankfully the bystanders assisted me; that tells me there are certainly many good people who recognize when women are danger and are willing to help.
This behaviour is pathological We need to stop people drowning by preventing people from falling into the river upstream We need global outroll of parenting classes. We have DECADES of evidence proving how poor parenting, passed on from parent to parent generationally can create all these maladaptive behaviours. And the causes can be -so- subtle, in ways you'd never conceive. After all trauma is not only the event but the PERCEPTION of the event. It's the blueprint for everything, s*×ual deviance, misogyny, codependency, abuse, perfectionism, addiction..... Everything. We need to play serious catch up with the exponential rate of technology, society and the internet, and its harmful affects 😐
South Africa is worse. Fortunately our lawmakers have changed the Sexual Offences Act to include consent, which gives victims a chance to litigate. People who do these things to others are definitely on the malignant narcissistic range.
It’s clear that Clara Le Gallic-Ach and Choralyne DUMESNIL followed the trial much more closely than the guy seated at the middle of the table. I’m glad that when he attempted to “correct” what she was saying about those men and empathy (because he didn’t follow the trial closely enough to know what a complete lack of shame these men showed, both inside and outside the courtroom), that the two guests who are more knowledgeable than he continued with what they were saying rather than letting his disruption derail what was being said.
Gisele Pelicot is a heroine. She's truly a strong, brave woman. I admire her so much. Gisele Pelicot is the example the world needs. I remember how during metoo some of the Hollywood actresses refused to name their abusers...and in doing that, they allowed the abuser to go on to abuse other women. But Gisele stood there in dignity and like a superhero stood up and faced those men and held them accountable. Thank you Gisele. You are my hero.
When it comes to consent, it is also essential that the female be in her full senses, not intoxicated. Which is a major problem in europen countries, as drinking is soo common.
I am surrounded by men in the dance atmosphere and many say very disgusting and inappropriate comments to me, I call them out and tell them I don’t accept that and they attack me. This is way too common!!!
😢 between Porn and Tate and high misogyny. The only thing that can protect women is a man’s character, this needs to be taught at a young age. Shame on them all, there was no defence for this.
24:00 what is the organization she works for? And how can we get their list of 140 proposals to end sexual violence against women? That would be a helpful list for feminists to work with everywhere.
no offense to the the host, but probably should have had a female moderator or at least one male guest. a little on the nose to have a conversation about men controlling women and a male moderating a completely female panel. 🤷♀a male guest would have also helped make the point that this is (as Sarah said) a men's issue. did not like how he inadvertently pitted Choralyne and Sarah against each other and how he only continued to interrupt Clara (who seemed the least comfortable with English of the 4; this is nothing against her this is a comment about the host, who should have noted that and NOT repeatedly interrupted her thoughts/speaking). asking Choralyne if she might have changed her mind after hearing Sarah's differing opinion and Clara's indecision was not helpful. it was a loaded question - it's highly unlikely she would go against the organization she is representing and is basically forced into a corner.
There HAS to be a tougher sentence for rape. IMO the only thing that may curb it is castration. But that is highly unlikely because laws will never agree to it as long as it affects men. But crimes againt women and children...? they don't give an eff.
While I would agree that there needs to be harsh sentencing that matches the crime, there is always the possibility of false convictions. That is a problem with things like the death penalty in places like the US. Unfortunately, there are some people that will be falsely convicted; it can be due to botched investigations, mistaken identity, or any number of other circumstances. Justice systems need to take that into account when dictating physical punishment that cannot be undone. I firmly believe that long term rehabilitation should be the goal, however I recognize that some people are beyond “fixing”. Prison sentences alone for violent crimes are never going to change behavior, there needs to be some form of making amends to society for the harm caused, and efforts made through therapy and education to ensure that there is some form of rehabilitation for the criminal. Releasing these men after a couple of months or years without any required therapy, education, rehabilitation, or community service is appalling.
@@katherineparis8208 The rate of "false convictions" for rape is lower than any other kind of crime. it just gets touted loudly & widely because of the sort of societies in which we live.
She HAD to know she was being drugged and raped. She wasn’t paying attention. It’s sad this happened to her but I think she could have stopped it on day 1. There were signs. She ignored them.
What? How could anyone thinking they were in a happy marriage assume they were being drugged by their spouse. And she did go to the hospital many times. They downplayed her concerns and convinced her she was crazy. She thought she must be dealing with Alzheimer’s.
'France' is the country. And given the number of women from many different countries (at least 200) who have written to her, your comment is misinformed and gratuitous.
I love her strength & how she said the shame goes to those men not her. There's no reason any woman should feel any type of shame in a case like this. It's a very outdated way of thinking.
There needs to be a clear line drawn. Unless someone gives actual consent- then it is either sexual assault or if the sex act is performed - then it is rape. This should be taught in all secondary schools. France needs to educate their children. The sentencing is far too lenient- these perpetrators have actually gone on to do the same assault on their own wives and partners. It’s horrendous
Rape is not a sex act it’s an act of violence.
It is taught through the Golden Rule. However, when society teaches men that women are not human, we are doomed.
I totally agree, it must be taught in school!!! ASAP
I think we can teach kids that they have ownership over their own bodies and they do not have ownership over anyone else’s. We can teach them that even if they get married, although some decisions may be made together, one can never make a decision about the other’s body if the other is not involved in making that decision. These basic concepts can even be taught in elementary school.
Yes. A person must say yes to every step in sex. A drunk, drugged, asleep, or unconscious person cannot do so.
51 men in a 40 mile radius ??? SICK WORLD
There’s another 30 that haven’t been identified.
It was more like 90 men, but they located 50 men to arrest, charge, etc.
Further, of the 90 men who did “show up” to participate, and did, only 3 had a “change of heart,” and refused to “participate.”
Zero men “reported” what was going on, though.
And to think women gestate and give birth to such creatures…
I’m not surprised, I am aware of this for a long time
I always tell men what they say is not appropriate and I always protect myself, don’t go to their places and have my boundaries very clear, for them, I’m the problem
Yes. Her village of Mazan is a 4.5 mile diameter, or 2.25 mi radius, with 6,270 people, or ~3,135 men. I dont know how many in that 50 mile radius.
The medical community also failed her.
True
You get these drugs on the dark net
@@Alex.1765from information I read, her husband used a prescription medication of his own to drug her. He used 3 to 10 times the prescribed amount and surreptitiously mixed it into her food or drink. She suffered memory loss and other terrifying symptoms; she feared she had a brain tumor or Alzheimer’s. He drove her to appointments with doctors and encouraged her belief that she was ill.
@@Alex.1765One of the rapists sold drugs on that website, so there you go. But, I think, a good doctor, that cares for women, should investigate further, if the patient experiences same symptoms for so long!!!😮😢
@@Alex.1765 But he did not. He got them legally, though doctors - who did not bother to think past the surface.
The shame is on those men AND all those who knew and did nothing
And those defence lawyers who tried to besmirch Giselle's character and apportion blame on her during cross examination in court.
@ exactly
In Singapore, caning is a form of corporal punishment. I never understood what level of crime warranted such extend of punishment. Now I do! Dominique Pelicot shud be thankful he only got 20 yrs. The judicial system shud have made an example of him - 1 yr for each rape! Where is the justice?!
I dont believe in corporal punishment, but he shouldn't be let out. Too dangerous.
Why wasn't he also indicted for human trafficing ?
Attempted murder for the drugging. She could have died.
@@Maybe-cg2tn Oh, that's so true!
Why isn’t the rapists photos posted? She was a victim and you show her but not the men? Do they have more rights?
exactly
yes. now that theyre convicted, where are their photos??
They are hidding themselves. Also not seeing them here does not mean they have not been photographed or filmed.
Check the court documents and do research to avoid mis-identification
But no, it shouldn't be like this. Not once they are convicted.
@@plant495
Listening, what hit me is the fact of the misogyinism of the modern world.
It's hardwired and subconcious part of millenia of our existence, including the modern day.
Then the judge , the media, the lawyers, the legislators, the male spectators not present all identify with the criminals and not the victim... that's the hardest challenge for our society.
so well said. ty!
Clara’s comments are interesting- did those that acknowledged their wrongdoing get less time than those who refused. Now can we see their faces?
I think when the news media report the case in full afterwards, they will now be able to name and post the photos of all those found guilty.
These criminals will say anything (lies) to weasel out of their responsibility. Wake up people connect with your God🙏
The defence lawyer should be sentenced as well, at the min counselled. His defence was not a defence. There really was none but he chose the most disgusting way to defend the clients now appropriately found guilty.
Women need to protect each other. Society needs to protect women and children.😡🇺🇸😳🤨
MALES NEED TO HOLD OTHER MALES TO ACCOUNT IN THEIR DEVIANCE.
This isn't a women's issue when women don't have a voice to start with.
Put the impetus back on these dysfunctional men.
Take your own personal self accountability.
Then go heal other women and teach each other how to raise their children healthily.
More than that, men need to GROW UP.
Now that these 51 men are convicted, where are their photos??
yes! women should know which men to avoid. why is their privacy being protected?
I think these men should not only be convicted of rape, but also of putting someone's life in danger by drugging her and giving her infections (one of these men even had AIDS!). The husband forbade the use of condoms!!!! How evil can one be? These men agreed with this condition, even though they had infections (like one had AIDS!). Luckily, Gisele did not get aids, but she got other infections. It is not only the psychological harm, but also the harm to her health and the fact that she could die of an overdose or an infection. Yes, they should add consent in the law, but I also agree that this would not fix everything.
2 years for a rape??? You're kidding???
empathy must be taught to men in France and everywhere.
I traveled in France earlier this year, and it’s a lovely country. However it’s the only country in Europe where I’ve ever had “scammers” put hands on me. It happened on two separate occasions, and I literally had to have bystanders help me extricate myself from the situations. Not once, in any other country I have traveled, have I had people put their hands on me like that! It was very disheartening, and I hope it is not indicative of France as a whole and only of the particular people I encountered. Thankfully the bystanders assisted me; that tells me there are certainly many good people who recognize when women are danger and are willing to help.
This behaviour is pathological
We need to stop people drowning by preventing people from falling into the river upstream
We need global outroll of parenting classes.
We have DECADES of evidence proving how poor parenting, passed on from parent to parent generationally
can create all these maladaptive behaviours.
And the causes can be -so- subtle, in ways you'd never conceive.
After all trauma is not only the event but the PERCEPTION of the event.
It's the blueprint for everything, s*×ual deviance, misogyny, codependency, abuse, perfectionism, addiction.....
Everything.
We need to play serious catch up with the exponential rate of technology, society and the internet, and its harmful affects 😐
And men in a so-called civilized first world country do not know they should not rape any woman, awake or asleep ?
South Africa is worse. Fortunately our lawmakers have changed the Sexual Offences Act to include consent, which gives victims a chance to litigate. People who do these things to others are definitely on the malignant narcissistic range.
This also happens in australia.
The reference to myths and children's stories such as 'Sleeping Beauty' and 'Cinderella' were eye opening for me.
It’s clear that Clara Le Gallic-Ach and Choralyne DUMESNIL followed the trial much more closely than the guy seated at the middle of the table. I’m glad that when he attempted to “correct” what she was saying about those men and empathy (because he didn’t follow the trial closely enough to know what a complete lack of shame these men showed, both inside and outside the courtroom), that the two guests who are more knowledgeable than he continued with what they were saying rather than letting his disruption derail what was being said.
yes. why weren't they, or another woman, leading the discussion. cringe.
We need to engage men in this discussion.
I also think that he is being passive in order to allow the women to dominate.
Can other victims take Dominique Pelicot to court and try to add another 20yrs?
Amazing debate. Thanks to all for you.
Gisele Pelicot is a heroine. She's truly a strong, brave woman. I admire her so much. Gisele Pelicot is the example the world needs. I remember how during metoo some of the Hollywood actresses refused to name their abusers...and in doing that, they allowed the abuser to go on to abuse other women. But Gisele stood there in dignity and like a superhero stood up and faced those men and held them accountable. Thank you Gisele. You are my hero.
When it comes to consent, it is also essential that the female be in her full senses, not intoxicated.
Which is a major problem in europen countries, as drinking is soo common.
No, the major problem is men taking advantage of drunk women.
Empathy is actually learned, if fostered, at a very young age. After that… maybe not.
We need to teach empathy. Empathy is an action and a choice, as well as a reaction. Makes me want to start meditating again...
Yeah, respect and boundaries in school, ASAP
I am surrounded by men in the dance atmosphere and many say very disgusting and inappropriate comments to me, I call them out and tell them I don’t accept that and they attack me. This is way too common!!!
The security guard should be given highest french award
Absolutely true, without M. Thibaud Rey this sordid, grotesque and brutally cruel crime would have gone undiscovered.
😢 between Porn and Tate and high misogyny. The only thing that can protect women is a man’s character, this needs to be taught at a young age. Shame on them all, there was no defence for this.
24:00 what is the organization she works for? And how can we get their list of 140 proposals to end sexual violence against women? That would be a helpful list for feminists to work with everywhere.
Great analysis
The negative side of the internet and social media pulls people away from their soul and humanity. Pray more for yourselves and your fellow 🙏🪻
no offense to the the host, but probably should have had a female moderator or at least one male guest. a little on the nose to have a conversation about men controlling women and a male moderating a completely female panel. 🤷♀a male guest would have also helped make the point that this is (as Sarah said) a men's issue. did not like how he inadvertently pitted Choralyne and Sarah against each other and how he only continued to interrupt Clara (who seemed the least comfortable with English of the 4; this is nothing against her this is a comment about the host, who should have noted that and NOT repeatedly interrupted her thoughts/speaking). asking Choralyne if she might have changed her mind after hearing Sarah's differing opinion and Clara's indecision was not helpful. it was a loaded question - it's highly unlikely she would go against the organization she is representing and is basically forced into a corner.
Prayers answered.
Thanks to the Republic
😢what a shame my sorrow goes out to her for I have sorrow of that experience from denise faison
There HAS to be a tougher sentence for rape. IMO the only thing that may curb it is castration. But that is highly unlikely because laws will never agree to it as long as it affects men. But crimes againt women and children...? they don't give an eff.
While I would agree that there needs to be harsh sentencing that matches the crime, there is always the possibility of false convictions. That is a problem with things like the death penalty in places like the US. Unfortunately, there are some people that will be falsely convicted; it can be due to botched investigations, mistaken identity, or any number of other circumstances. Justice systems need to take that into account when dictating physical punishment that cannot be undone.
I firmly believe that long term rehabilitation should be the goal, however I recognize that some people are beyond “fixing”. Prison sentences alone for violent crimes are never going to change behavior, there needs to be some form of making amends to society for the harm caused, and efforts made through therapy and education to ensure that there is some form of rehabilitation for the criminal. Releasing these men after a couple of months or years without any required therapy, education, rehabilitation, or community service is appalling.
@@katherineparis8208 The rate of "false convictions" for rape is lower than any other kind of crime. it just gets touted loudly & widely because of the sort of societies in which we live.
Why is there a man moderating? Cringe.
very cringe, indeed.
I hope families, faith communities and educational institutions are and will discuss this vile attitude that is prevalent all around the world.
Many faith communities blame the women
21:19 Numbers of reports may have “soared” in the last 10 years but that doesn’t mean it was a high percentag.
The security guard that found this weak and witless pathetic excuse of a man ‘up-skirting’ needs to named ‘Person of the Year’.
Everyone deserves privacy no one deserves secrecy.
I AM A LAWYER. PLS DON'T GIVE THE FINAL WORD ON JUSTICE TO LAWYERS
Who is laughing now????
When will. Dominique be tried for the murder?
???????
She HAD to know she was being drugged and raped. She wasn’t paying attention. It’s sad this happened to her but I think she could have stopped it on day 1. There were signs. She ignored them.
What? How could anyone thinking they were in a happy marriage assume they were being drugged by their spouse. And she did go to the hospital many times. They downplayed her concerns and convinced her she was crazy. She thought she must be dealing with Alzheimer’s.
You're a monster, a brainless monster.
The only country this has influence on is French
'France' is the country. And given the number of women from many different countries (at least 200) who have written to her, your comment is misinformed and gratuitous.
@Alex.1765 no it's not 299 women from different countries who have population of millions
Yeah, because no one in any other country will be inspired by this, not at all.