Red, I always appreciate your thoughtful tier videos. I know you’re also taking a rest from producing content. When you begin again, I’d love to see a video centered around which spirits an experienced player ought to favor when teaching newer players Spirit Island, especially in the first few games. I’ve started to heavily favor the Horizon’s spirits, but even those have some ups and downs.
Thanks for this series Red. Top quality content as always. Minor error on your Vigor description in case any viewers are confused. It's 4 damage not 2 for hypothetical push land A. Also, your love for Sun knows no bounds :D
I might want to try out Powerstorm to test it. The few times I have chosen that card, nothing useful every came out of it. For the Bargain card - I always feel like 1 energy per turn is always way too much. The other 3 I can easily see in S Tier. Terrifying Nightmares is def one of my two fave Majors, along with Pent-Up Calamity. I generally agree with A and B, too, though I see some fave cards a low lower down the list but they are indeed very situational and/or expensive.
Excellent series, thanks so much. Agree with the 4 obvious S teir cards, but struggling with Bargains. I disagree that any spirit can take it, and I dont believe it's an auto-pick nearly as often as the other 4. Its ceiling it's extremely high, arguably the highest of them all, but it's floor is also very low. There will be plenty of spirits and even board states where it just can't do work. I'd have it in A. I think there's arguments for Pent-Up and Unleash as S-tier. Both fast damage, both have a high enough floor that they can solve an average land on their own (more or less), and without too much work (accessible thresholds or minimal token availability) both can be extremely overpowered for their low cost. High floor and high ceiling is a recipe for S-tier (which is exactly what those 4 best majors are). I would disagree with Instruments in S, for similar reasons to Bargains. It's ceiling is again very high, but the floor is a bit low. Without thresholding, it's not very exciting for 4 energy. Still fine, and definitely no lower than A. Even if the threshold was 3 sun I could see it sneaking into S. But at 4 sun, no way. It's too much work. Thanks again!
Judging by the definitions of A and S tier cards, why is there not more discussion on how these cards should be weaker? For C/D tier most cards were followed up by "if it just costed less or did this or that, it would be usable" I mean If the threshold of vigor did 1 dmg per Dahan in target lands, it would be perfect If Indom costed 1 more, it would be more balanced. Trees and stones should have a 2/3/2 treshold Unrelenting growth should not give a wilds untresholded, or cost more picking up a card that says "huzzah you won" isn't my definition of fun. It should feel earned. great vid tho, top content as always :)
@@liekegerritsen1620 B tier is still baseline. Those worse should be considered buffed, those better should be considered nerfed - the further from B, the better reason to do anything with it. When i pull 4 cards for a draft, I want the actual board state, my personal "economy", spirit and/or adversary to be decisive in what card I pick - not just blindly choosing Vigor because it's Vigor. Some randomness and luck should come into play, but now it's a bit too skewed IMO. But i'm a low-randomness-player anyway, I know many players love the diversity in power levels.
Awesome list and insides. I had very similar tier levels in mind, but probably I would have put "Unrelenting Growth" in S-Tier. I can understand your arguments why you didnt and Im not so experienced against high level adverseries, however, my guess was that even if it hurts that this cards does nothing against the invaders, it has such a high value (especially played by towering roots or keeper) that it seems game breaking to me, if it somehow can be pulled off to play it as early and often as possible.
Powerstorm surprises me, without a threshold its just net +0 energy and +0 card plays, but i guess if you find a broken major to use with it, it gives a lot of value? Doesnt seem very S tier to me when its an "in the right circumstance" card
Have you played with it much? It does look somewhat unassuming on the surface - maybe even "win more" - but it overperforms every single time. Card is unquestionably S tier, it's great on base level and absolutely broken beyond belief when you hit the reasonable threshold!
Would you consider it as a "force multiplier"? As in, this card is broken when it can repeat broken things. But if you were able only to repeat fair powers, then it is not S-tier by any means
As an Intensify Memory main my list is very different, but I get that this is more general. It's interesting to see the differences. Sometimes I lose perspective because I don't play a lot of other spirits.
@@tepidgoose Well the good ones are still good, but there are quite a few lower in Red's tier list that I'd put quite high for Intensify. Unearth a Beast, Bloodwrack Plague (gotten early), Utter a Curse (vs high blight adversaries like Sweden) for example, those are all gamewinners for Intensify. Paralyzing Fright, Bargains, Infinite Vitality I'd probably drop a bit, since Intensify gets no additional value out of them compared to most majors. And spread damage powers like Forest of Living Obsidian and Storm Swath are just more valuable in Intensify's hands because of the extra damage he can tack on. The calculations also change due to the basic attributes of Memory, namely that he has limited card plays but solid energy growth and very flexible elements when not in a support role. Intensify can play big majors and threshold them (outside of the biggest like Exaltation and Cast Down) much earlier than most spirits, so they are inherently more valuable to Intensify than they are to the average spirit.
@@tepidgoose That said the best overall is probably still Vigor. Intensify gets 3 dahan pushes, and so can nuke 4 lands for only 3 energy. It's kind of insane.
Bargains and range increase: Do i need the range boost when i play the power, or on my future turn when I need the defense? If i need it when i play the power, that means I need to keep track of what range increase i had on each of the different times I played Bargains.
I was able to guess 3, they are really almost auto picks regardless of spirit. I have not played bargain in my games, maybe I should try it, to see why it is an S
Red, I always appreciate your thoughtful tier videos. I know you’re also taking a rest from producing content. When you begin again, I’d love to see a video centered around which spirits an experienced player ought to favor when teaching newer players Spirit Island, especially in the first few games. I’ve started to heavily favor the Horizon’s spirits, but even those have some ups and downs.
Thanks for this series Red. Top quality content as always. Minor error on your Vigor description in case any viewers are confused. It's 4 damage not 2 for hypothetical push land A.
Also, your love for Sun knows no bounds :D
Thank you. Math is hard 😂
I’ve stopped picking paralyzing fright in 3-4 player games as I find the fear not doing enough, and I often feel like I have better uses for 4 energy.
same here. We only play 5-6 player games and 8 fear is not what it would be in a solo game.
I might want to try out Powerstorm to test it. The few times I have chosen that card, nothing useful every came out of it. For the Bargain card - I always feel like 1 energy per turn is always way too much. The other 3 I can easily see in S Tier. Terrifying Nightmares is def one of my two fave Majors, along with Pent-Up Calamity. I generally agree with A and B, too, though I see some fave cards a low lower down the list but they are indeed very situational and/or expensive.
Excellent series, thanks so much. Agree with the 4 obvious S teir cards, but struggling with Bargains. I disagree that any spirit can take it, and I dont believe it's an auto-pick nearly as often as the other 4. Its ceiling it's extremely high, arguably the highest of them all, but it's floor is also very low. There will be plenty of spirits and even board states where it just can't do work. I'd have it in A.
I think there's arguments for Pent-Up and Unleash as S-tier. Both fast damage, both have a high enough floor that they can solve an average land on their own (more or less), and without too much work (accessible thresholds or minimal token availability) both can be extremely overpowered for their low cost. High floor and high ceiling is a recipe for S-tier (which is exactly what those 4 best majors are).
I would disagree with Instruments in S, for similar reasons to Bargains. It's ceiling is again very high, but the floor is a bit low. Without thresholding, it's not very exciting for 4 energy. Still fine, and definitely no lower than A. Even if the threshold was 3 sun I could see it sneaking into S. But at 4 sun, no way. It's too much work.
Thanks again!
Judging by the definitions of A and S tier cards, why is there not more discussion on how these cards should be weaker?
For C/D tier most cards were followed up by "if it just costed less or did this or that, it would be usable"
I mean
If the threshold of vigor did 1 dmg per Dahan in target lands, it would be perfect
If Indom costed 1 more, it would be more balanced.
Trees and stones should have a 2/3/2 treshold
Unrelenting growth should not give a wilds untresholded, or cost more
picking up a card that says "huzzah you won" isn't my definition of fun. It should feel earned.
great vid tho, top content as always :)
Great comment, the B tier would make for the best cards in that case?
@@liekegerritsen1620 B tier is still baseline. Those worse should be considered buffed, those better should be considered nerfed - the further from B, the better reason to do anything with it.
When i pull 4 cards for a draft, I want the actual board state, my personal "economy", spirit and/or adversary to be decisive in what card I pick - not just blindly choosing Vigor because it's Vigor. Some randomness and luck should come into play, but now it's a bit too skewed IMO. But i'm a low-randomness-player anyway, I know many players love the diversity in power levels.
Awesome list and insides. I had very similar tier levels in mind, but probably I would have put "Unrelenting Growth" in S-Tier. I can understand your arguments why you didnt and Im not so experienced against high level adverseries, however, my guess was that even if it hurts that this cards does nothing against the invaders, it has such a high value (especially played by towering roots or keeper) that it seems game breaking to me, if it somehow can be pulled off to play it as early and often as possible.
Powerstorm surprises me, without a threshold its just net +0 energy and +0 card plays, but i guess if you find a broken major to use with it, it gives a lot of value? Doesnt seem very S tier to me when its an "in the right circumstance" card
Have you played with it much? It does look somewhat unassuming on the surface - maybe even "win more" - but it overperforms every single time. Card is unquestionably S tier, it's great on base level and absolutely broken beyond belief when you hit the reasonable threshold!
Would you consider it as a "force multiplier"? As in, this card is broken when it can repeat broken things. But if you were able only to repeat fair powers, then it is not S-tier by any means
top content
Fellow Irish folk! We should play some time 😎
Thanks a lot, this series was super interesting.
As an Intensify Memory main my list is very different, but I get that this is more general. It's interesting to see the differences. Sometimes I lose perspective because I don't play a lot of other spirits.
What you got as best majors given that context??
@@tepidgoose Well the good ones are still good, but there are quite a few lower in Red's tier list that I'd put quite high for Intensify. Unearth a Beast, Bloodwrack Plague (gotten early), Utter a Curse (vs high blight adversaries like Sweden) for example, those are all gamewinners for Intensify. Paralyzing Fright, Bargains, Infinite Vitality I'd probably drop a bit, since Intensify gets no additional value out of them compared to most majors. And spread damage powers like Forest of Living Obsidian and Storm Swath are just more valuable in Intensify's hands because of the extra damage he can tack on. The calculations also change due to the basic attributes of Memory, namely that he has limited card plays but solid energy growth and very flexible elements when not in a support role. Intensify can play big majors and threshold them (outside of the biggest like Exaltation and Cast Down) much earlier than most spirits, so they are inherently more valuable to Intensify than they are to the average spirit.
@@tepidgoose That said the best overall is probably still Vigor. Intensify gets 3 dahan pushes, and so can nuke 4 lands for only 3 energy. It's kind of insane.
Bargains and range increase: Do i need the range boost when i play the power, or on my future turn when I need the defense?
If i need it when i play the power, that means I need to keep track of what range increase i had on each of the different times I played Bargains.
Future turns!
I was able to guess 3, they are really almost auto picks regardless of spirit.
I have not played bargain in my games, maybe I should try it, to see why it is an S