Y’all really expected her, a woman who made her debut album about being midwestern and queer, to not perform for other midwestern queer people? Brainrot isn’t the word……
@shakirashipslied9721 Lmao no it's just the way they sink on a sofa and go online for 24/7 and brag. What you expect from people that are useless like that? They're more useless than the trash itself.
People don’t have a lot of empathy for those living in Midwest or rural communities even if they’re queer and adding to queer culture. There’s a lot of thinly veiled classism within the lgbt+ community that is perpetuated my west & east coasters
People don’t have a lot of empathy for those living in Midwest or rural communities even if they’re queer and adding to queer culture. There’s a lot of thinly veiled classism within the lgbt+ community that is perpetuated my west & east coasters
Too many people don't have a life outside of internet discourse and are constantly looking for the next hot take to scramble for some desperate vestige of social media attention and justify to themselves their being terminally online.
People will say stuff like "toxic masculinity is bad and men should be allowed to be sensitive" and "cishet men can't listen to chappell roan" in the same breath
It’s incredibly frustrating as a trans man in queer spaces. I am viewed both as a direct threat/predator to the space when I pass as a man, yet also not “man enough” and just another dumb woman playing at masculinity when I don’t pass. This gatekeeping feels so incredibly childish and ironically assumes incredibly sexist notions of masc and femme presentation. It’s assuming that any masculine presentation person who is with a feminine presenting person is automatically a guy and a girl. It could be a t4t couple, they could both be non binary or genderfluid, they could both be bi/pansexual, they could Aro/Ace, they could both be gay and just great friends! Hell, it could be a brother and sister who are fans or her songs! I’m so tired of the same Pride discourse every singe year, but this years was so chronically online that it kinda scares the hell outta me
@@CharlieCat18bro I feel you 😔 I’m trans masc not even a man but I pass as one so I get grouped in with all the bad. I’ve only known I was trans for a few years and have been transitioning for 3. Before that I had just accepted myself as a butch lesbian so I spent most of my life IDing as a lesbian so my music taste is either emo or lesbian music 😭 so feeling like I’m excluded now from my own community sucks!! Online discourse sucks
I don’t think you can have good without bad there always needs to be a balance, it takes maturity to accept that, there’s gonna be toxic femininity and toxic masculinity and the opposite with both, and I’m accepting of that. We CANT push away people that don’t agree with us, we need to educate and make it an open conversation
Chappell Roan turning down a White House gig and then playing in red states is not mutually exclusive nor is it indicative of hypocrisy on her part. Like what kind of terminally online thought process is that? People in red states who are queer/LGBTQ+ also deserve to see entertainers who can help give them a safe space? Entertainers turning their backs on red states doesn't change who's in power/signing the bills, voting and running for office does
Ppl are always advocating abandoning the ppl in red states like poc, women, and lgbtq don't still live there. They're the ones that need the most support
But also, entertainment can be educational. Sometimes bigotry is due to lack of exposure, if someone sees a performance and thinks it’s good, there is a chance (slim as it may be) that they’ll think “hey maybe I should learn more about this” and realize they were wrong
Reminds me of that person on Twitter who made a list of celebrities who should be cancelled for supporting Israel, and their "crimes" were mostly buying Starbucks and not putting watermelon emojis in their bio (or in some cases not doing it sooner). I think everyone realized they lost the plot when the list included Alan Rickman, who's been dead for six years.
Haha, I brought my cishet husband to her concert last night and we both had a great time! People complimented his ocean themed outfit along with my mermaid-themed outfit, and not one person acted like he was unwelcome being there!
Saying that Chappell shouldn't play in anti-queer states is so insensitive. As a queer person who lives in fucking florida of all places, a lot of us don't get a choice. I was born here, I'm still a minor, and even if my family wasn't queerphobic, we currently can't afford to move. Just because we live in our state doesn't mean we defend and support our state. We're still just as deserving as representation as anyone else, and seeing Chappell Roan while in a queerphobic state could be even more impactful than seeing her in a place where LGBTQ is already accepted, because we're already outcasted where we are, so to see someone like us being praised and loved and cared for can be really impactful. This take reeks of privilege tbh
exactly, red states are still deserving of representation (as someone who also lives in florida but i DO have a queerphobic family 😭) and i agree its extremely privileged to just assume that everyone that lives in red states are republican
Well said. We can't turn our backs on vulnerable communities in red states because the government is reactionary. People who are being targeted by bigots deserve the most support and solidarity. This should be obvious.
I feel like Chappell's work shows a desire within her to bring to light queerness that exists in spaces where people try to suppress and conceal it. I feel like she's talked about this in interviews. That seems liberating to me.
as a Bi woman i never thought to good luck babe was about a Bi woman. bc why would a Bi woman be sad she ended up with a man… if she likes men too?? it’s clearly about a closeted lesbian lol
I think it's for women who claim to be bi, but are probably actually lesbians. Compulsatory heterosexuality is a real thing. As a bi (maybe lesbian) woman myself, i sometimes wonder if I really like men, or if it's just easier to date men, even if it's less fulfilling?! I could have a boyfriend tomorrow if I wanted to, but dating women requires more effort. And let's be real, we're all exhausted and lonely... which puts us in a weird dichotomy.
"you can kiss a hundred boys in bars" is obv like, no matter how many boys you kiss or how committed you go with marrying the dude, you are who you are and it can't be changed by willpower alone. to me that screams "don't settle for comphet, it's never going to be what you're trying to force it to be"
seems like people not only making assumptions of other's identities, but the cishet is still such a default even online... its a wonder those are still big these days.
The thing is, gender non-conformists are the very small minority who are not part of the norm. Most people naturally born male identify as such and the same goes for women.
AS A NON-BINARY PANSEXUAL LIVING IN A RED STATE: Here’s what I have to say to people who don’t want Chappell coming to our states! 🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻 I have voted Democrat since I was legally allowed to vote, and I DID NOT put those people in office, it’s NOT MY FAULT! SO DO NOT punish ME FOR BEING OUTNUMBERED IN A RED STATE. I still wanna see Chappell too!
As someone in a red state.. please don’t turn your back on us. A place where all of us can gather and share that energy with each other is just so special. Gives hope to those who arguably most need it
I mean Chappell is literally from a red state, why would she turn her back on queer people from red states? It's just ragebait from terminally online idiots.
"dont bring your cishet bf" what if the cishet bf likes chappell's music? my dad is a cishet 58 yr old guy and he was actually the one to introduce me the chappell because he loved pink pony club and femininomenon so much lol
plus what if he's ace? how can you actually tell they're het or cis?? like people are circling back to the "i can tell you're trans" narrative and it's not cute
I swear to god if one day I pass well enough that someone sees me with a friend at a concert and thinks I'm their "cishet bf" I will feel so offended. I can guarentee not everyone who looks like a straight cis man is a straight cis man. - Signed, a trans man who has fellow trans male friends who look like cishet men (even though they aren't cis or straight)
I don't think dad's are thr problem, I think the heteonormative baggage a lot of women drag along with their boyfriends is the problem. The "who left the toilet seat up" of it all.
As a bisexual guy who likes him some girly pop, the whole gatekeeping around Chappell Roan feels really misguided. I understand marginalized communities wanting something that's just for them, but like you said, artists don't really have much of a say on who likes their music or how they interpret it, especially when that artist has such an increasingly large audience. Take Taylor Swift for example. She's had white supremacists try to claim her as some Aryan princess, AND a slew a fans who are convinced she's secretly gay and comb through her lyrics to find out who her secret sapphic lover is. Incidentally, I got to see Chappell live a few weeks ago and it was kind of an accident of circumstance. I showed her to my lesbian neighbor who ended up really latching onto her, and she was going to go with her girlfriend but they broke up at the last minute, and since I'm the one who introduced her, she invited me. I was a little weary because I knew about the fan discourse and I stood out like a sore thumb. I didn't have anything that matched the dress code and the gayest piece of clothing I own is a Caroline Polachek T-shirt. But no one bullied me and I ended up having a blast. There was even a TikTok from that show that went viral where two people tried to teach this old security guard the Hot To Go dance. As for the whole criticism about turning down the White House while also performing in red states? Look, I think we lost the plot with canceling celebrities for woke points when someone made a list of people who should be blocked for not putting watermelon emojis in their bio and included Alan Rickman. I guess the lesson here is don't let terminally online jerks dictate what you can and can't like.
As a bi artist guy it blows my mind they would try and limit her success as an artist too. I just "discovered" her a few days ago and am obsessed with her. Reminds me of a more refined Leslie and the Lys style with Kate Bush's vocals and makes my 80s kid heart sing. Why would anyone want to hold the joy and story of being gay to the rest of the world? Every big artist goes mainstream gives all of us more acceptance. It only helps Queer people to accept everyone with open arms. I remember when working to get gay marriage passed in Iowa the main thing was going door to door and meeting people to show gay folk were just people wanting to have commitment like everyone else. Having a Queer artist "make it" is like going to the doors of thousands of houses daily, it opens up so many doors and conversations. We need this especially in this climate nowadays.
Do you know what project 2025 is? We're not losing the plot. This is a different time, than any other time. It's just disappointing, that she felt the need to publicly denounced, the only other option to keep our rights....., if Trump gets into power, we won't even have a right to protest. They almost have the power now to do these things, if we let any more Republicans get into office, we will be screwed. I genuinely implore you to look into, project 2025 and what they are going to do to us all. For example these are some of the things they want to make illegal Condoms and contraceptives Gay marriage (and potentially queer s*x) They want to make it, illegal to be trans, and therefore illegalized gender-affirming care. Anybody who disagrees with the sex at birth, being your gender, will deal with legal consequences They want to make it illegal to protest They want to make abortion illegal in every single state They want to get rid of Medicaid and Medicare They're going to take away federally funded housing from thousands of people. One of the scariest things I've seen, is that they want to make it so that s*x offenders, can be e*ecuted. Considering how, they want to make being queer, being trans, illegal, it would fall under s*xually related crimes. You can also look at the fact that that's why they're trying to paint us all as groomers, and using that type of terminology with us.
This is exactly why I stay off twitter. As a bisexual woman, I first listened to Chappell’s music last year and the first thing I did was show it to my cishet boyfriend. He’s now a bigger fan of her than I am.
no fr, my bf won't admit it but he loves when I have Chappell on cooking dinner or something, he literally came in dancing to Hot to Go the one night and it was so funny bc he never would ever admit that he likes her 🤣
Hell, my cis, bi boyfriend introduced me to her cause he knows I was only ever in sapphic relationships before I started dating him. He knows my taste in music, and that I would really appreciate the relatability. He looks like any normal dude but he's legit kissed more men than I ever have so... I'm still taking him to one of her concerts, idc lmao.
Nothing is wrong with that but don’t take literal lesbian music or any lesbian art and label it “bi” that erases the lesbian experience. It may overlap but it is still different and we need to respect each other’s boundaries when it comes to that
I think bisexual women always do this. Take things that were directly created to represent lesbians by lesbians and then claim it as some sort of bisexual anthem or bisexual symbols. They can’t stand not making everything about them for a second.
the red states discourse has to be rage bait I stg...as someone who lives in a conservative flyover state where a lot of big artists don't even stop on their tours Chappell sold out both of her performances and getting to see so many queer people attend was so special. so happy for her success, only a little bit sad that her tours in the future are bound to be spensyyyyy
my ex and i are both bi, he wasnt ready to talk about it, but he always loved going to pride with me. the tweet saying why would a man be there is just so weird, straight trans men? other queer men? … it feels like *some* of her fans are rad-fems that want to twist chapels sexuality for their own narratives to be pushed and it’s so gross.
I saw another video recently that also mentioned there are very cishet passing gay/lesbian people as well. I think to a well trained eye I am very clearly gay but I live in a red midwestern state… people assume I’m cishet and wouldn’t think twice about it (I’m neither)
ALSO, there's such a thing as an ALLY????? Like, what is the actual issue with a cishet person walking in solidarity with queer people? Claiming there should be complete separation is such segregatory discourse.
Exactly... Bi, pan, and trans men exist. It's really narrow minded to assume all masc presenting people are straight. Heck, could even just be a gender fluid lovely on a masc day is all; and now they're being shamed by their own community members for it. It's NOT okay to assume a person's gender or orientation, especially for the point of exclusion. Wasn't the whole point of our modern movement that ALL forms of existing, loving, and romancing have validity?
Right. Like how can someone look at two people that they have never met before in their life and just decide what their respective sexual/romantic attractions and genders are? And if they're intersex or not? Not to mention, none of ya business.
Straight cis white male here; hate to break it to people but I’ve been listening to Chappell Roan non stop for four years now. Not once have I considered her sexuality - I know a very straight dude take. This is reality though; she’s a wonderful musician and it’s been a joy watching her journey. So happy for her and I’ll continue to support her.
@@OWlsfordshire How so? That's an odd take - I also listen to Dorian Electra, Pouty Face, Dua Lipa, Poppy, Frank Ocean - does that make me gay? By your (flawed) logic you are then straight for listening to any straight artist whose lyrics reference straight relationships. Weird take.
i know this is such a shocking revelation for some people but cishet men can and should engage with and enjoy queer and female artists. it's actually incredible that some cishet men are fans of chappell roan. would you rather they hate her? would you rather they avoid her at all costs because she's a gay woman? like what would you rather happen here seriously
Agree, also as a bi woman, I feel like a lot of hetero or bi artists also market themselves to look also desirable to men and utilise their sexuality to market themselves, which is their right, and good for them if it's true to their identity, but it's nice to see that even without Chappell Roan doing that stuff to make herself palatable or desirable to men, that there's guys who genuinely are just there for the music and performances and cool stage looks in a non-romantic/non-sexual way. It feels healing for me to know there's hetero guys out there who can and do appreciate great lesbian bops by a lesbian artist, when my experience of the world has always communicated to me that I need to market myself to be palatable to men in order for any male human to appreciate anything I have to offer as a woman in the world in general.
Fella of a pan gal here - I love this artist. She ( I just had to confirm that in another tab) has made just the most beautiful pop music about desire and artsy expression and the bittersweet joy of youthful eros.
Ik it's like when people you say if you're straight and enjoy certain fandoms and music that you're lying??? Like, no?? Everybody can like whatever they want. As long as you can appreciate the importance some things hold to queer people (Like Chappell Roan and Freddie Mercury and David Bowie) but you can still enjoy it? Idk man, it's weird. You can actually branch out in music and artists and fandoms as a straight person. I think it's a good thing, to be able to enjoy them. Would you rather them be like, "Nah, this fandom/artist isn't full of straight people so I don't like it." Like really? Coming from a cishet female, I don't fully understand what the experiences or insights of actual queer people would be, but I feel like I'm open-minded enough to sort of try and understand it. Don't quote me on this, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. ^^
I feel like a lot of people in our community just so chronically online and find the tiniest thing to complain about :/ Chappell Roan deserves to have fans of ALL sexualities *and yes that includes cishet men*. Why wouldn't we want someone in our community finding success? Why are we trying to drag her down??
There was a MUNA podcast that talked about how just from a numbers perspective, queer artists NEED non-queer support in order to make it big. I think it’s a good thing that she is getting so much support from all kinds of people. I do hate that it’s getting harder to see her now. I had the chance to see her for $35 + fees and now im standing face to face with i told you so😭
I'm a masc lesbian with many straight friends who is chronically online and I'm working on introducing her music to my straight/cis friends. Please don't blame it on chronicle onlineness, it's just idiocy and gatekeeping
Also if Chappell's music and aesthetics and overall references to queer culture make just 1 cis het man to reconsider certain things or educate himself isn't that great? Also why are we gatekeeping pride, isn't pride supposed to be a public demonstration? I don't get why people would say they want visibility for us and that we want to end heteronormativity and toxic masculinity and then claim cishet men shouldn't be near us, our art or our culture. How can't they understand both things are not compatible at all?
I saw a male cover of good luck babe that changed the lyrics to be from the perspective of a mlm situation, and I thought it was obvious from the first listen, but so many people in the comments were saying nasty things and telling him to delete it, and how straight men can’t leave queer people anything, thinking it was a cover from the man from Chappells songs perspective. Other comments were kind of infantilizing Chappell saying how distraught she could possibly be if she saw this cover, like it would mentally affect her, which is very weird. Apparently it spread on Twitter to a point where the guy made an updated comment apologizing for the whole thing. I had all good interactions with other fans of hers at gov ball, but like every fandom some people are just a bit too much.
The amount of people online who jump to conclusions and assume people they like are just as sensitive as them are INSANE. I'm genuinely concerned for people now.
This reminds me of that time when a guy on TikTok did a gender-swapped cover of a Build a Bitch by Bella Poarch, where he changed the lyrics to talk about men's beauty standards; and basically everyone jumped down his throat saying how men need to make everything about them, when he didn't even try to take away from the song, he just looked at the other side of the coin.
@@mikeyjamieson4715 Wow. Lots of people do this too, it isn't a new thing. People are insane and take things wrong on purpose just to make a thing out of it. You can't please anybody.
As a musician myself, I can't imagine Chappell would be offended that another male musician covered her song and gender swapped the lyrics. She would be flattered that another musician likes her song. This whole debate is very silly.
I hate how unfun and gatekeepy the internet is becoming. Covers with lyric changes are always a blast and super cool, especially for animators like me who like to animate my ocs to different songs. I can find a cover which fits better! And covers about stuff like this can really resonate with people who relate to that experience and can bring a lot of joy and happiness! There’s lots of benefits to covers. Yet the internet ALWAYS throws a fit and claims people are “stealing their song” despite the fact they aren’t the creators nor do they own the song. And plus the original song isn’t going anywhere, it’s still there! It’s very stupid that some people can’t just scroll past a cover they dislike, they can’t just listen to and enjoy the original, they HAVE to get all gatekeepy and hostile.
As someone from the south whose state has at any given moment the potential to turn red against my will, I’m sick and tired of people deciding those in red states are deserving of their fate as if people can just move whatever politics change?? Not many people have the finances (especially now) or physicality to just bounce between states if they turn red - and no state is ever going to get better if people within it leave every time the politics change. People in red states arguably deserve representation more than people in blue states because they’re the ones suffering the lack there of currently. It feels cruel to ostracize an already particularly ostracized part of your own community
This is so well put! I honestly wonder what they think not playing in a red state would accomplish besides punishing the queer people who live in that state?
Yes! This! Especially when democrats don't help fund other democrats' campaigns in these red states, dealing with voter suppression and gerrymandering for decades. Way before when I was born. I'm afraid of FL slowly turning red after 2016 because democrats don't wanna fund our state anymore. I get that it's because of strategy, and they wanna focus where they can win. But it's leaving the most vulnerable behind here! We need representation in conservative areas, too! And there are people fighting for our rights here as best we can in a government that's already rigged against us!
ughhh I feel like the internet/social media is ruining music. People seriously get angry over nothing and then take it out on the artists when they're not doing anything wrong. And trying to police who can like an artist or go to their show is so ridiculous and unproductive. Just let people like who they like and live their lives
The argument that she shouldn’t perform in red states is ridiculous. Chappel is literally from a red state and has said on interview that the group she wants to reach the most is the small pockets of queer spaces in unexpected places (I.e. red states).
The whole discourse of "cishet" bfs at pride or in queer spaces boggles my mind bc why are we assuming the sexuality or even gender of bisexuals "womens" boyfriend? As a bisexual women myself the Chappell Roan fans discourse about all of this has really put me off to even listening to her & I feel so bad about it bc her songs are good & I shouldnt let fans deter me but ugggh seeing it turns me off, she is talented though & I appreciate her artistry as a queer person in 2024
People will swear up and down that biphobia doesn’t exist. Meanwhile, the same people always have our sub-community’s name in their mouth. 🤔 It kills me that some lesbians act as if bi women can’t have very similar experiences to them when we’re both sapphic. “Good Luck, Babe!” was very clearly about compulsory heterosexuality, which not just lesbians experience.
I’m definitely not team assuming folks’ identity but there are a lot of straight cis dudes who take up space at pride, or use queer spaces as an avenue for being predatory. I don’t think it’s wild for folks to have concerns. If you’ve never had weird straight dudes looking for a 3rd w/ their bisexual gf at the queer space in super uncomfy ways consider yourself lucky.
@@arianna5270 That’s definitely a concern I can understand as a bi girl. The fetishization from both straight people and queer people feels so gross and dehumanizing (looking for a “unicorn” shit). I feel like the general rule should be cishets can come if they’re invited by a member of the community/coming with one of us. It should be watched closely, they’ve proven to be problematic for our safety many times before, but an all-out ban feels wrong. Edit: this is in the context of Pride and bars, you obviously can’t police who is coming to a music festival or concert.
I understand your point but many people, especially queer wlw women dont feel comfortable with people who have been opressing them for years, who are the cause of violence, sexism and murder against women to be in their space. They didnt respect our right to exist for millenia, they took away our rights, m*rder and r*ped us and now we cant have a place where theyre not welcomed? I'm myself not comfortable around men and i believe many queer women arent either.
and several of her fans blatantly call out and target bisexual women for "bringing their het bfs" when we should be mentioning the real problem: grown ass men both straight and gay alike for harassing women at queer events. like it's okay for gays and lesbians to bring their straight family members and friends as allies for pride and for bi people it's suddenly not? it's tiring to hear how we bi women get blamed on for everything as if men don't have consciousness of their own.
@@LeoMaraschino I didn’t bc I was thinking about a chapel. I’m an ex-Baptist but attended a catholic school so the word is burnt into the folds of my brain for eternity. 😭
I am a cishet man and a huuuuuge Chappell fan. Seen her twice now with my fiancé (who introduced me to her music last fall) and her crowds are the most loving, polite and fun people I’ve ever been around. Her concerts are truly one of a kind and I’m so grateful for the times I’ve seen her perform. I would hate for this “tweet” to actually become a thing because music is for everyone and Chappell’s shows are an all inclusive place for those who want to come out and have a good time. Thanks for making this video, great points!!
im a queer immigrant that grew up in South Carolina. queer people in red states desperately need representation and safe places at all times, specially queer people of color. imagine (these fans) being so privileged that the thought of that never crossed their minds or they just straight up don't care, it's actually very concerning. and the whole boyfriend situation is beyond wild, my husband and i look like a hetero couple but we're both pan. people really need to start thinking about people other than themselves, it's really hurting a community that was built on love and equality.
same! shes a great artist and people should be allowed to listen to what they want. i think its awesome shes a huge advocate for lesbians but i think everyone should listen to her!
Same, I think that people should be able to listen to who ever they want, the people trying to limit people from listening to Chappell confuse me like, shouldn’t you be happy for her for getting the fame she deserved?
Regarding her music I think that in the american pop landscape of the past few years of sadgirl emotional pop chappell feels like a breath of fresh air in that the music is just loud and fun. it's why people love sabrina carpenter and charli xcx so much. it's especially fresh air in the landscape of lesbian pop music which like, 99% of it is acoustic sadgirl music. it's nice to see lesbian joy presented so loudly and proudly in music that you can shake your ass to.
Like yes finally a song with a fucking beat, like thank god I already exhausted my energy for being a sadgirl™️ like a decade ago when I was still in high school
Like yes finally a song with a fucking beat, like thank god I already exhausted my energy for being a sadgirl™️ like a decade ago when I was still in high school
ever since finding out the no kink at pride conversation turned out to be purposefully started by anti lgbt internet dwellers disguised as lgbt accounts i get suspicious when certain arguments are started on twitter.
LITERALLY! A subreddit I really liked got absolutely wrecked for a week or two because someone came on and posted something like "why are queer spaces so islamaphobic?" Which started a big argument and every time it started to die down they posted something else. Of course, it was a brand new reddit account... It's especially frustrating when conversations that need to happen get co-opted by people trying to use them to stir up controversy.
Can you explain the no kink at pride conversation? I’m a queer person and my first thought is to keep pride as family friendly as possible for general events but that 18+ events can be more sexual.
@@astranova1674 pride didnt start as a family friendly event. the whole premise is freedom of sexual expression. expecting pride to be family friendly is not going to make it so. queer youth do deserve their own spaces but i dont know if a major pride event is it.
@@archwayofcesar I kinda feel like adults in kink spaces have a better chance of finding each other outside of the mainstream while minors need sfw events they can find and access easily, and in most things the "mainstream" side of it is the family friendly stuff, because people are more likely to find it without actively looking
It’s been an exhausting month to be bisexual. Like damn, am I supposed to leave my bi boyfriend home for pride? Because somehow we cancel out each other’s queerness? I gotta go to a concert alone in a city I don’t know well, because he’s not allowed to be there? I’m supposed to walk back to the train station after the concert alone and feel safe?
Basically, the assumption, I think, is that Bi men don't exist and all cishet men are dangerous. It's a ridiculous take. Can Bi men take their cishet girlfriends to chappell roan concerts? There's no difference except your preconcieved notion about men you percieve as straight and cis (which is an assumption might not even be correct about) It's not so easy these days to look at someone and know they're a cishet person. Surgery is pretty good these days , and not everyone is a walking stereotype. Not that not having surgery is an issue.
I feel this😅I'm seeing Chappell at a music festival soon with my boyfriend and I'm lowkey nervous to get judgmental looks for being at her set at this point. A subset of Chappell's fans have created such an uncomfortable culture surrounding her... a few weeks ago it was gatekeeping Good Luck Babe and proclaiming that a bi woman could not relate to that song.* Then, this week I have seen many people say it was inappropriate for Sabrina Carpenter to sing Good Luck Babe since she isn't LGBTQ, which people argued with---not by stressing that you don't need to relate to a song to cover it---but instead by trying to prove that Sabrina is bisexual or that this cover was her way of coming out😑. The gatekeeping is so extreme to the point that it genuinely feels like they want Chappell's career to fail. It's not even like Chappell herself is encouraging this nonsense, they have just taken it upon themselves to assert that she is for lesbians only for no reason. *IMO that claim was just blatantly false as (contrary to popular belief) comphet is not experienced by exclusively lesbians. Many bi women would rather date a man they feel less passionate about than publicly engage in a lesbian relationship due to internalized social pressures.
@@overdeckkIf you get bad looks just know it’s coming from terminally online people haha, in the real world at concerts people are usually there for the music LOL
No one ever believes women when they tell you who they are, if a woman tells you she’s a lesbian people insist she’s bisexual, if a woman insists she’s bisexual they insist she’s straight, if she’s trans she’ll be constantly misgendered if she doesn’t perform hyper femininity at all times. This isn’t a straight people thing either, this is a problem in LGBTQ spaces too, it’s just misogyny plain and simple.
A little while ago, Todd In The Shadows posted his Best Hit Songs of 2023. In it, he included songs by Sabrina Carpenter and Victoria Monet, saying they had major chances of becoming A-list pop stars in the future. I offered my own suggestion: Chappell Roan. I'm glad to see she's taken off like she has, as she really is a talented artist. Also can't wait for her to inevitably become a guest judge on Drag Race.
@@lunawhoran oh, you know they’re going to have her on as soon as they can. I can already hear RuPaul introducing an episode with “with EX-tra special guest judge, Chappell Roan!”
@@grahamkristensen9301 Let's hope so! I'm not surprised Todd would like her, she seems right up his alley with the pop music he seems to like. Not to mention, Good Luck Babe is an awesome track (just like many of her others), so it'd be a pleasant surprise to see him include it on his list.
It's really disheartening. I'm a 33 year old cis man who's been a loving ally for as long as I was old enough to understand gay rights. I try to be an incredibly safe person and have been welcomed to many queer spaces. I love Chappel Roan and I don't understand the blanket hatred towards someone like me. It's new and not a sentiment expressed in my social circles.
Right and why are they acting like all queer people are inherently safe. They'll watch a drag queen vogue on Chappell Roan's stage and say "cishet men would make this unsafe" as if vogueing wasn't invented because BIPOC gays weren't safe in white queer spaces.
I think ally’s and people who are willing to educate themselves about queer topics should be allowed into queer spaces so they can learn more from our experiences . If we want to advocate more for an inclusive and accepting, tolerant world we have to let people be educated about our experiences and identities, including letting people outside the community be able to be involved in queer spaces and safe spaces, that way we can truly put in positive change .
@@angelheartzz6350 I love your comment, it's so true. Gatekeeping and segregating out non queer people is not going to help the goals of inclusivity and tolerance. I am a male cishet ally, attends pride fairs, and recently got into Chappell. People please don't lump us altogether with the deplorables, that's counter-intuitive.
why do some people assume all bisexual women date cishet men, literally erasing the existence of bi or trans men? some discussions bring the worst in gays i swear
Is this the worst in guys? I still hope to never see anything near as bad as the TERFy behavior in OG L Word. They made the characters apologize in Generation Q because it was that bad.
As a bisexual woman it gets on my nerves bc my partner is literally a pre transition trans woman who's also bi and poly. Really ridiculous to water down bisexuals to straight people who want attention
on the note about “don’t bring your cishet boyfriend” etc….i think it’s so interesting how some people within communities built on inclusivity will not see the irony of actively excluding those who are different from them. there are definitely scenarios where an all queer only setting is necessary and appropriate, but unless chappell herself says NO CISHETS, like ??? you can’t make that decision for her. the MORE people of ALL DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES bonding over queer AF music, the better!!!!
Chappell Roan actually started posting covers in 2014 and released her first single in 2017! She’s been at it for a loooonnng time. Takes a decade to become an overnight sensation.
i am a massive little monster and have been for 15 years. Lady Gaga changed my life. I see ALOT of Lady Gaga in Chappell Roan and i am BEYOND excited to watch the rest of her career blossom, her music is campy and fun and her voice is out fucking standing. The Gaga comparisons are not to be taken lightly. People saying shes overrated are not paying attention. wish me luck getting tickets to All Things Go NYC and getting to witness her live during this pivotal time in music and her career!! ❤
I wish people would stop comparing her to Gaga. She’s nothing like Gaga and it’s putting this assumption that she’s trying to be like her or copy her, like the arguments years ago that Gaga was trying to be like Madonna. Unique people exist independently and don’t need to be associated or labelled as influenced by each other just bc their persona is also unique.
@@holaitserin I don't see her as trying to be like/copying Gaga at all, I understand your point as someone who absolutely hates when people say Gaga copied Madonna. I merely said I see some of Gaga in her, and to say she wasn't influenced by her is flat out wrong. When she covers Bad Romance, she does the original choreography which only a little monster would know. In terms of music, creativity and image Chappell is VASTLY different from Gaga but like Gaga and Madonna, the cultural impact of an over the top artist in a mainstream space with a new sound and massive queer appeal is similar. She is going to change music the way people before her have done. I'm comparing the anticipated direction of her career, NOT the art at all.
@@singincindy I don’t think only LM’s would know the choreography, it was a popular music video at its time and did go viral again on TikTok years ago, and she is a self proclaimed chronic online girl so could have easily learnt it from there or just in general without being a LM. I also think the reason for her blow up and appeal to the queer community is because she’s an ACTUAL queer artist making queer music for queer people. Madonna and Gaga did not start their careers or appeals as such, more so just appealed to and profited off of our community because they went against the grain which is what we saw or felt ourselves to be represented as.
@@holaitserin I completely disagree. The music video being popular doesn't mean non LMs were doing the dance. For the past 15 years since the song came out, I have only ever seen people do the dance at her concerts or LMs doing the dance in videos online. You seem to forget that Lady Gaga had the reputation of being seen as weird and strange by the mainstream consumer, I was bullied in school for being a fan of hers, why would people be doing those dances unless they really felt a connection to her or her music? And virality on TikTok is very subjective nowadays, anything can go 'viral' and still stay within certain communities. I certainly don't remember the dance being viral, and I think LMs wouldve heard about it if it did go viral outside of our community. Lastly, Lady Gaga IS a queer artist who has ALWAYS made queer music for queer people. In her earliest interviews she states that very clearly. She is one of the most influential queer artists of all time, it's absolutely wild to think Chappell wouldn't be influenced by her. Once again though I think the point is being missed that I'm comparing the trajectory of their careers and their impact on pop culture, NOT the art that they create. I don't see an issue with saying that an influential artist influences younger artists.
@@singincindy the issue is that Gaga is constantly being cited as the only artist that could possible influence others that have a ‘unique’ take. I remember when Gaga emerged into mainstream media, and I was a chronic online stan Twitter user who, amongst many others, were on the receiving end of LM’s attacks for stanning anyone who wasn’t Gaga, and every other artist was accused of copying Gaga if they did something out of the ordinary, as if she was the pinnacle of originality - to which she was not. Yet, they’d all get defensive if someone compared her to Madonna. Gaga herself has stated that she does not represent or speak for the queer community which is an odd thing to say when she has also claimed to be bisexual so that in and of itself is a bit contradictory. But I suppose that is also in reference to her music.She has also stated that Poker Face was about fantasising about women, and she has had sexual relationships with women but has only ever fallen in love or had romantic relationships with men. So her songs reflect this, unlike Chappell’s which, apart from a couple that reflect when she was in a relationship with a man and longing for a woman, are lesbian derived and coded. LM’s we’re not the only ones doing the choreography. It’s choreography that was in a very, very popular televised and shared music video, which was consumed by everyone. Trends are not exclusive to fan bases, especially dances. And yes, it did go viral again a couple of years ago. I’m not a LM and people doing the dance from a variety of ages was all over my FYP. It’s becoming tiring seeing any emerging or unique artist be instantly compared to or said to be influenced by Gaga. It’s about as tiring as it was for LM’s to constantly hear and object the Madonna or Björk comparisons throughout Gaga’s career. Chappell is heavily influenced by Drag culture, as she continuously states.
i wish we could actually just delete the internet because people are getting so chronically online its actually scaring me - i cant imagine being this detached from real human society. this shit is scary to me
My favourite personal Chappell lore is that at her Sydney show last year we all saw phones out but not a single one of the people I’ve talked to who went has or has seen any pictures of the gig since
People really don’t have to be one sexuality or another to relate to GLB. For instance, as a transwoman, the song is very relatable. There are men who are so insecure about their attraction to transwomen that they like to keep their relationships a secret. Well, good luck babe. After hearing it, I teared up with joy and gave my husband a hug, because I finally met someone who didn’t treat me like his dirty secret.
This just reinforces my desire to only listen to the music and not engage with stans or even music fandom at large. Not trying to be pretentious, but i was better off when i just jammed to her songs and didn’t know any of this bullshit takes from people.
a lot of biphobia is just repackaging misogyny and gender essentialism. not all bi women date straight men, in fact most straight women won’t date bi men so both people in a couple being bi is common and is still a queer relationship. it seems like these ppl on twitter have just seen people who look like a woman and a man together at pride and made assumptions about them both 🧐 bisexuals have historically been excluded from pride so it tracks ig
I am exhausted of online discourse and try to opt out of reading it whenever I can because this kind of shit just stresses me out. Your videos are so clearheaded and help me get a handle on what's going on without needing to dive in head first at my own risk. I appreciate your work so much.
Ugh, same. I ended up deleting Twitter and TikTok before ever becoming super active because the discourse within the LGBTQ+ communities there is so toxic... not that it's much better on the rest of social media. I feel much more welcome now that I don't know all the nasty things some are saying about people like me.
I'm so tired of the discourse around all the places folks who are bi or otherwise multiply attracted "shouldn't" be allowed (and I have noticed this often doesn't even acknowledge bi men.) Beyond the ridiculousness of trying to gatekeep who enjoys & supports an artist, you cannot tell someone's deal just by looking at them at a concert. Like, I am not dating anyone straight, but I can't control if some stranger looks at my partner and jumps to incorrect assumptions that we're a cishet dyad invading a queer space rather than just also queer & here to have a good time. Anyhow, I probably won't be able to afford to bring someone with when she's next in town, so I'll just focus on being happy she's getting her recognition!
Lesbian: makes deeply personal music. Cishet man: finds it moving, engaging, and sympathetic. Internet lesbians: "how dare you?" Chronically online people just kind of forget what human interaction is supposed to be, huh?
I'm waiting on a full out Hemlocke Springs album because her EP is so good, she's already been doing tour dates and she is so refreshing to see in the music space 😌
THANK YOU! As a loooongtime Chappell fan who's so stoked she's blown up FINALLY, I have zero desire to gatekeep from anyone. I have zero desire to criticize her for who she plays to because it's her freaking career and she's doing so much good for the LGBTQ+ communities. My boyfriend is a big Chappell fan and is truly the most wonderful ally and supporter I know. It seems wild to me to say, "hey you can't come here." Isn't that kind of the opposite of what we want? To deny supporters and fans is bananas. Furthermore, I live in a primarily red state (florida) but I'm from and often visit my home state which is a mixed bag of crap (Michigan). My 16 year old queer niece who lives in smalltown Michigan should be able to see Chappell (and she did a couple weeks ago), despite that she lives in a very conservative small town environment. Also, yes, if people think she's overrated or don't like her I could not give a crap less. I like her and so do others. That's what matters to me. All music is not "for" everyone and that's totally fine by me.
Yeah, according to google trends she's been famous for 6 months. At least part of it was that Midwest Princess made a lot of "best of 2023" lists so people looked it up, and then of course the Guts Tour.
Just listened to a playlist on TH-cam. I have no choice but to get all her albums on my way home from work today. She knows her lesbian demographic well.
to me, this mostly seems like growing pains of her jumping from an alt / indie darling to pop stardom very quickly. i feel like before this year, she kinda had a similar following to that of ethel cain, but now it definitely feels like shes grown out of that and people dont know how to handle it. it makes me sad because she deserves her success so much, her songs are not meant to be played in small venues, she is meant to have those huge crowds, she is meant to be a huge popstar! also to add to a small point you brought up in the video, the whole discourse about using songs to determine or assume the sexuality of an artist is so ridiculous because we can never really understand until they say it themselves, like chappell did. for example, i was listening to greta van fleet's highway tune and in the whole song they refer to a woman, meanwhile the lead singer josh kiszka at the time was (and still is) in a relationship with a man! like you said, it sorta overlooks the fact that lgbt people often feel more comfortable with expressing and defining themselves as time goes by.
I saw Chappell last year before she super duper blew up (I became a fan during the Naked in Manhattan era). It completely blows my mind that some people don't see her success as a good thing?? Everyone always talk about how we need more famous LGBTQ+ artists, but then when they get popular we try to gatekeep them & say they're ONLY "for the gays" (and not in the wholesome way, in the gatekeep-y way). Chappell is a gift and everyone deserves to be blessed with her music 🎶💖🗽
Also there are SO MANY other amazing queer artists that are lesser known than Chappell and just as talented and important to the community. It’s almost insulting to them to act as if Chappell is the one and only lesbian representative in music
1) Chappell is such a fucking G for turning down the White House AND 2) I have seen her live twice, both in a red state, and both times I cried because of how amazing it felt to be surrounded by the girls, the gays, and the vibes so anyone advocating against that is out of touch with reality and also my personal enemy 😤
If Chappell herself said that she didn't want bi fans, or cishet fans, that'd be disappointing. The fans of hers that are trying to exclude people aren't doing her any favors.
this is the kind of arguing and infighting that made me not participate in queer online spaces anymore. like, bi people are allowed to relate to good luck babe, even if it is ultimately a lesbian song. i have related to characters of color and their experiences dispite being a white person because a lot of feelings are more universal as to apply to one singular group. i think that us lesbians need to team up with the bi women and if you are in any offline queer space, we are. not once has a bi woman looked me in the eyes and invalidated my lesbian identity and not once have i told a bi woman to her face that her experiences aren‘t as queer as mine because when you‘re in person with a fellow wlw, you‘re not thinking about that. the only people who have said these things to me were hiding behind keyboards. and i know that for a lot of people, their online community is all they have because it‘s not safe for them to be out or in queer spaces irl. but for the love of god, pick a singular blade of grass. everything is not an attack on you and real life is a whole lot messier than you can evaluate from your little screen, there is nuance to everything. you don‘t know if someone‘s boyfriend is straight or cis to begin with. and as long as they‘re not ruining the vibes, nobody cares. we have more important issues to worry about, last year at my local pride, some rando beat up a trans guy, who later died from the injuries. i don‘t care if you bring your straight boyfriend to pride. we have more pressing issues.
Honestly kinda...anyone can relate to it? It just depends how deeply you relate to it, I suppose. Obviously number one is lesbians then Sapphic people, but like...the concept of regretting a marriage / feeling like someone is with the wrong person is pretty simple on its own. That's kind of...why music is great? Like multiple people can get something from a song even if they weren't the number one target because people's lifes are different and our brains are different. It's (imo) like how I've seen gay women love some of Taylor Swifts songs despite them sometimes referencing guys.
I’m a cisgender straight woman who has discovered Chappell roan’s music this year and I think she is a true example of a renaissance woman and I still find myself singing pink pony club when I’m alone and to be honest, she has gotten me through this harsh year. In terms of artists blowing up I hope people like Becky G, Renee rapp, and Rina Sawayama will keep getting big this year.
rina sawayama needs to blow up like chappell and renee rapp (who I love) her 2020 album SAWAYAMA is perfect but she didn't get to tour bc covid. her second album hold the girl is beautiful and about healing ur inner child. she has stadium pop, metal, and country-sounding songs bc she leans into the emotion of the songs so no two songs ar e the same and its an experience!! XS is about consumerism and capitalism so its bubblegum pop-y , STFU is about her experience with racism and microaggressions and her anger she cant express so it is heavier/metal ish for example. she makes good pop music that has so many layers and shes is a great performer and person
big agree. I saw her live and she was amazing, can't wait to see what she puts out next. I wear my hold the girl concert tee around and gush about her whenever I can lol
I've also been seeing a lot of conversations online about who certain songs are for and how people interpret them. Both sides of the argument have good points: songs once released can have different contexts, memories, or feelings for different people. I think that's the nature of art. I saw someone on Twitter say they were quite frustrated and disgusted that people were playing Yebba's Heartbreak at their weddings when that song is not about the healing power of romantic love but it is in fact a tribute to Yebba's mother who died from her struggle with mental illness. And that person's not wrong, I can definitely see how it would be frustrating to have such a devastating song be used in a different way. But some people aren't aware of the song's context and only know the lyrics, and sometimes people know the lyrics but they resonate with how the song sounds and how it makes them feel (an example of this is Before I Let Go, which many on second listen say is a breakup song, but it gets played at a lot of happy events like family reunions and has an upbeat beat).
As a part of the LGBT we need to stop gate keeping. It is just plain pathetic. We supposedly want to be accepted but then push people away who want to support us. We can't have our cake and eat it.
tbh the people getting legitimately mad at bisexuals for relating to a song that could be interpreted as bisexual, while complaining about how bisexuals "steal" stuff from lesbians all the time, sounds sort of biphobic. btw gatekeeping music by sexuality and gender is absurd and discriminatory for no reason. cishet people can like whatever music they want.
So many people on social media have lost their damn minds with this gatekeeping and think pieces and Twitter rants. On the plus side, I've found a new pop star that i may like!
I was so excited to hear your take on Chappell Roan! Clicked as soon as I saw the notification lol. Recently saw her on tour and she is an amazing performer. An artist I’m hoping blows up is Ayla D’lyla. Her song “Money” & the accompanying music video are phenomenal.
As a bi trans guy, I really liked Chappell Roan at first. Really dug her music. Until all her rabid fans basically made me think “oh if she’s attracting this type of audience, what’s that say about her…?” Turns out she seems like a really good person, advocates for trans people (trans women too, which shocked me because a loud minority of lesbians subscribe to the terf ideology). Anyways, just wanted to give my input on how certain fans of hers are actually making people turn away from her music.
I just wanted to say real quick that the idea that a lot of cis lesbians are TERFs is not true; TERFs try to conflate the two because one of their talking points is about them supposedly “protecting” cis lesbians, but according to existing studies, cis lesbians (at least in the US; I’m not sure about other places) are not more likely to be transphobic than any other cis queer person! And this is just anecdotal, but some of the fiercest supporters of trans people who I’ve met are out & proud cis d*kes. (P.S. in this context I’m using that word to signify affection, recognition, and respect, because where I live in a big city in the northeast US, the lesbians who I’m talking about who I’ve personally met call themselves d*kes; it’s extremely reclaimed here so it’s common for lesbian-led organizations to have d*ke in the name, etc. I wouldn’t normally censor it because the whole point is I’m referring to specific folks who want to be called that because it’s a part of their identity & a sign of affection/community in my local queer spaces, especially activism spaces, but I’m pretty sure TH-cam would automatically block it because it’s very much still a slur in many contexts, unfortunately.) Anyway, lesbians are amazing and have done so much for the rest of the queer community, so it’s a huge bummer that TERFs (the majority of whom are straight) have managed to perpetuate this stereotype/misconception even among queer folks. I try to clue people in like this whenever I can, because it sucks that there are some trans people (including myself before I realized this) who are automatically nervous around people who in reality are likely to support them & have their backs.🧡🤍🩷
Hey thanks for sharing your experience but from a genderqueer lesbian please let go of that idea that most of us are terfs. Gender non conformity is a big part of the lesbian experience and community. The terfs just happen to be a loud minority.
I am a bisexual woman in a hetero relationship with possibly the straightest straight man to ever exist. He loves Chappell Roan. He is not afraid to be sensitive or listen to things other straight men would call “feminine”. He sees how deeply I resonate with her songs, and that makes him happy. And while Good Luck Babe made me cry the first time I listened to it, I would never call it a “bi anthem”. People need to touch grass.
I once heard someone say, I think in a documentary but don't pin me on that, that teenage girls and woman in their early 20s have always had a major influence on what will later be known as "the greatest music/artist". People even dismissed the beatles at the beginning because their fans were mainly young woman & girls. The dismissal of artists just because they have mainly female fanbase is just one example of how woman (and their economic & cultural power) have not been taken seriously in my opinion.
So true. My mom was 15 when The Beatles first appeared on US television. She was taking pictures of the TV screen and my grandad apparently said, "In five years, you won't even remember their names." 😂
idk but the whole good luck babe situation is making yall too comfortable being biphobic because any person with media literacy regardless of sexual orientation would know what the song is about, i am bisexual and i personally relate to it because of a past experience i had with another woman, she said it was just a phase or something like that, and i see her getting married to a man and getting stuck in an unsatisfying relationship because of denying her sexuality, something i would never experience because if i end up with a man it wouldn't be a problem because i AM sexually attracted to men. it's a media literacy problem, but yall will take ANY opportunity to insult bi ppl being like "istg bi people are stupid" for not understanding a song, it has NOTHING to do with their sexual orientation (btw "yall" is not kayla says, it's the biphobic part of the lgbt community)
Straight cis guy here. I look at Chappell Roan as an absolute breath of fresh air in pop, and I really dig a lot of her music! But as a black man, I understand where a lot of queer people are coming from; many times a black artist would blow up outside of the black community wayyy after they've been popular in the black community. It starts to feel a little "Columbus Syndrome"-ish when new white fans "discover" Young Nudy's music (for example). Given the history of oppression, it can also feel a little jarring to see members of the oppressors group show up in your space. But it doesn't have to be that way; in fact, it could be the beginning of what helps someone overcome their prejudices. Or maybe I'm just yapping
I was given free tickets to her show in Pittsburgh because I made coffee for her guitarist, but I couldn’t find anyone to go with me. I didn’t want to go alone, and I was well aware of people being internally judgy of bi girls bringing their boyfriends, so I decided it wasn’t worth going. I feel like whenever I try to be involved in the community more I get edged out by people who don’t think I’m “gay enough” because I’m bi with a boyfriend, it’s really disheartening
as someone who has been a hardcore chappell fan since around 2021, it’s so insane to see her blow up all of a sudden. i am SO proud & happy for her & i cannot understand how some of her other fans want to gatekeep her. she’s so important for other queer people & especially queer women. seeing her grow from school nights to good luck, babe has been amazing. she’ll forever be my fav & my heart is so warm to see all her deserved success 🤍
The ''stop performing in states/places with anti-lgbtq+ laws'' argument it's so weird. As a lesbian Peruvian, if Chappell ever goes on tour here in South America, I would LOVE to go. However, according to their logic, she shouldn't come to the majority if not ALL countries here. What about us? We can't see her live for things we can't control/change immediately?
Aaaah thank you for making this! I LOVE Chappell Roan and agree with everything you said!! Been a fan of her since 2019 but would never gatekeep her from anybody, I’m so excited to see her grow this fast
Im a bisexual man. I love Chappell Roan's music. Any time ive tried to engage with conversation about her and her music online i have been told that im not allowed to enjoy her music because im a man (i even had someone tell me to kms over liking good luck babe) . My girlfriend is also bi. Multiple times she has told me about people online yelling at her about relating to the music. Idk what it is about Chappell that draws in the most hateful people in the LGBT community. The only group of people ive seen that hate people that are different from them are racists.
i understand, on one hand why ppl don't want MEN at a chappell roan concert (or just concerts in general lol), but at the same time, as a bi woman, it feels very ibvalidating to have ppl say that we can't bring our cis het boyfriends, as if our relationship, even if with a cis het man, isn't still queer. even if, from the outside it appears heteronormative, it is still a queer relationship, because one of the participants IS queer. also, how tf do you know my boyfriend's not also bisexual? this obsession of the queer community to want other queer ppl to wear their sexuality as a badge is tiring, it shouldn't concern anyone but me and who i'm dating... another thing, we're allowed to interpret the song however we want (talking about good luck, babe, but also renee rapp songs). it's not because the artist is gay that we can't use the song to relate it to our own personal experience. for example, i love one direction songs because to me, they're very sapphic. they repeat girl over and over again, and they might be 5 officially straight boys that are singing about seemingly straight girls, something women can't relate too, because we're not men lol, doesn't mean we can't relate to the songs or make them our own. (i'm obviously not talking about people who decide the actual artist's sexuality, just the ones who discount everybody else's interpretation of songs) anyways, great video as always kayla ❤
Many people, especially queer, gay women dont feel comfortable around people that have been opressing us for millenia for literally no reason. I dont think asking for a safe space without them is too much.
I never truly felt welcome in queer spaces as a bisexual woman who only ever had one relationship with a cis het man but lately it's out of control and I don't even try to connect to other queer people anymore (besides the few I know personally from university or work, but queer spaces... seemingly not for people like me)
“Fans of her who are in the same group (lesbians) don’t want her identity to be watered down or commodified to be more palatable.” - are we saying that if Chappell was bisexual that is a more palatable or watered down identity? because trust, biphobia is not any less rampant and bisexuality is not more accepted that any other queer identity. It’s not easier to be bi and your love for women is not lesser if you’re bi.
I mean, as a bi woman I definitely understand what you’re saying and that’s not necessarily what I meant? Idk I’m trying to explain it from the perspective of lesbians who feel that bi people are co-opting their “thing”
@@kaylasays i’m sorry, I did not mean to imply you - kayla - believe that. I meant “we” as in the collective group you were speaking about. I just meant to say that if anyone feels that way they’re wrong, imo.
As a bi person, I do think our existence can be “easier” or at least more palatable bc we can end up with men. And can be assumed as straight. But I truly don’t think that means biphobia isn’t a problem or that we don’t face issues. Idk I guess I’m conflicted,
as a bi woman, our sexualities are generally much more palatable to the general public than lesbian ones. especially because so many bi women end up in straight passing relationships. there is ABSOLUTELY privilege in appearing straight passing. many lesbians feel like they can’t even hold hands with their partner out in public or post a photo of them kissing online. whereas if you’re in a straight passing relationship with a cis man, no one will care. also, many lesbians don’t like bi women because they feel like they’re just experiments or hypotheticals to bi women. as someone who has dated men and women, it’s much harder to publicly date women than it is to publicly date men.
@@Talia778 I can’t speak to your experience, but socially we get shit no matter what. If we’re with women we get shit from the cishet bigots, if we’re with men we get shit from our own community - as clearly shown in this video. The first is certainly more threatening, but the latter feels even worse because not even our safe spaces are truly safe from biphobia.
You missed my (least) favourite new Chappell Roan discourse: Casual is about a man. Chappell Roan has written songs about men before like My Kink is Karma but she explicitly said about this song that it was a man in the music video because "it was only ever men who made her feel that way" so presumably, the same applies to Casual, which features a woman in the music video. It comes a lot from the idea that only men can be toxic, all men are toxic, and women are a paragon of morality or some shit and it really bothers me to see it, especially because they're wrong about Casual being about about a man.
i live in louisville ky and was going to get tickets to louisville pride June 15th ($10 gen admission to the festival) but they sold out so fast bc chappel is performing and SO many ppl, even out of state, SWARMED to get $10 “chappel roan tickets”. it’s crazy bc every other year i’ve been, i either bought tickets day of or didn’t even need a ticket to enter. seniors also used to get free entry and it’s so sad to see so many old gays who were unaware of how insane it would be unable to even attend pride 😭 not mad at chappel for it ofc or even the festival planners bc no one knew she would have blown up so much before. but it is very sad so many ky gays can’t even go to their own pride bc so many ppl just saw it as a cheap chappel roan concert.
me too, I live in lousiville and it is sad that so many of my queer friends can't go. I luckily bought 2 tickets for me and my trans sister because we are both apart of the community but it is sad, I don't want to gatekeep pride but it makes me upset people are coming just to see her for $10 when the local community can't attend. and the reselling for 10x plus the price makes me really mad
People made the same argument about performing in states with anti-LGBTQ+ legislatures when Beyonce was touring Renaissance. And similar arguements were made even before that when the NBA moved its 2017 All-Star Weekend out of Charlotte, NC because of its bathroom bill yet had franchises in other anti-LGBTQ+ legislature states. Not only do I find those arguments to be "what about"-isms, but you also hit the nail on the head: there are LBTQ+ people in those areas who are fans of the music, sports, etc. and having events in those areas are more in support of those fans than they are in support of the anti-LGBTQ+ laws in those places
personally, i relate to her songs because i'm aroace, yes its a little backwards but no matter how many men i date or have "a crush on" i'll never feel connection. and i was bewildered when someone said i couldn't like chappel because I wasn't lesbiain... um what?
i am bisexual and agree that Good Luck, Babe is more of a song about lesbians, but i also like to interpret it in my own way. (i do this with any song if it somewhat relates to an experience i faced even if its not a fully accurate. sometimes you can just relate to part of a song and not the full thing). anyways, me interpreting it a little bit helps me relate to the song more
If I’m not mistaken, I’m pretty sure she came out as a lesbian recently, and was before going as pansexual/bisexual before that, and I think some of her songs are about guys she’s gone out with
Exactly, the album is very bi/pan because that is what she identified as when she made it. She identifies as lesbian now, but that doesn't negate that some of her songs are about men... plus anyone is allowed to love any music, gatekeeping is pathetic.
Yeah, without getting specific on any identity labels, broadly the story of the album is very much "used to date men. that sucked. now dating women. better."
Y’all really expected her, a woman who made her debut album about being midwestern and queer, to not perform for other midwestern queer people? Brainrot isn’t the word……
The people criticizing her just love losing their minds when someone does something that doesn't align with their parasocial view of them.
@shakirashipslied9721 Lmao no it's just the way they sink on a sofa and go online for 24/7 and brag. What you expect from people that are useless like that? They're more useless than the trash itself.
People don’t have a lot of empathy for those living in Midwest or rural communities even if they’re queer and adding to queer culture. There’s a lot of thinly veiled classism within the lgbt+ community that is perpetuated my west & east coasters
People don’t have a lot of empathy for those living in Midwest or rural communities even if they’re queer and adding to queer culture. There’s a lot of thinly veiled classism within the lgbt+ community that is perpetuated my west & east coasters
Too many people don't have a life outside of internet discourse and are constantly looking for the next hot take to scramble for some desperate vestige of social media attention and justify to themselves their being terminally online.
People will say stuff like "toxic masculinity is bad and men should be allowed to be sensitive" and "cishet men can't listen to chappell roan" in the same breath
Wish I could like this comment more...
It’s incredibly frustrating as a trans man in queer spaces. I am viewed both as a direct threat/predator to the space when I pass as a man, yet also not “man enough” and just another dumb woman playing at masculinity when I don’t pass. This gatekeeping feels so incredibly childish and ironically assumes incredibly sexist notions of masc and femme presentation. It’s assuming that any masculine presentation person who is with a feminine presenting person is automatically a guy and a girl. It could be a t4t couple, they could both be non binary or genderfluid, they could both be bi/pansexual, they could Aro/Ace, they could both be gay and just great friends! Hell, it could be a brother and sister who are fans or her songs! I’m so tired of the same Pride discourse every singe year, but this years was so chronically online that it kinda scares the hell outta me
@@CharlieCat18bro I feel you 😔 I’m trans masc not even a man but I pass as one so I get grouped in with all the bad. I’ve only known I was trans for a few years and have been transitioning for 3. Before that I had just accepted myself as a butch lesbian so I spent most of my life IDing as a lesbian so my music taste is either emo or lesbian music 😭 so feeling like I’m excluded now from my own community sucks!! Online discourse sucks
I don’t think you can have good without bad there always needs to be a balance, it takes maturity to accept that, there’s gonna be toxic femininity and toxic masculinity and the opposite with both, and I’m accepting of that. We CANT push away people that don’t agree with us, we need to educate and make it an open conversation
This is true. And it's due to a lot of factors and hypocrisies people don't want to face yet.
Chappell Roan turning down a White House gig and then playing in red states is not mutually exclusive nor is it indicative of hypocrisy on her part. Like what kind of terminally online thought process is that? People in red states who are queer/LGBTQ+ also deserve to see entertainers who can help give them a safe space? Entertainers turning their backs on red states doesn't change who's in power/signing the bills, voting and running for office does
They need to watch We're Here 😅.
Ppl are always advocating abandoning the ppl in red states like poc, women, and lgbtq don't still live there. They're the ones that need the most support
Exactly. If she wants to say f you to ALL politicians, that’s her right.
But also, entertainment can be educational. Sometimes bigotry is due to lack of exposure, if someone sees a performance and thinks it’s good, there is a chance (slim as it may be) that they’ll think “hey maybe I should learn more about this” and realize they were wrong
Reminds me of that person on Twitter who made a list of celebrities who should be cancelled for supporting Israel, and their "crimes" were mostly buying Starbucks and not putting watermelon emojis in their bio (or in some cases not doing it sooner). I think everyone realized they lost the plot when the list included Alan Rickman, who's been dead for six years.
“Don’t bring your cishet man to Chappell Roan’s concerts”
People in real life: hey man how’s it going
actual people in real life:
(no one cares)
absolutely twitterbrained
i love that it was phrased like theyre bringing a dog or smth and not a human being 💀 (nice wataru pfp also)
Felt this in my brain
Haha, I brought my cishet husband to her concert last night and we both had a great time! People complimented his ocean themed outfit along with my mermaid-themed outfit, and not one person acted like he was unwelcome being there!
Saying that Chappell shouldn't play in anti-queer states is so insensitive. As a queer person who lives in fucking florida of all places, a lot of us don't get a choice. I was born here, I'm still a minor, and even if my family wasn't queerphobic, we currently can't afford to move. Just because we live in our state doesn't mean we defend and support our state. We're still just as deserving as representation as anyone else, and seeing Chappell Roan while in a queerphobic state could be even more impactful than seeing her in a place where LGBTQ is already accepted, because we're already outcasted where we are, so to see someone like us being praised and loved and cared for can be really impactful. This take reeks of privilege tbh
exactly, red states are still deserving of representation (as someone who also lives in florida but i DO have a queerphobic family 😭) and i agree its extremely privileged to just assume that everyone that lives in red states are republican
YES I wanna see queer rep here too!! (i too live in florida)
Well said. We can't turn our backs on vulnerable communities in red states because the government is reactionary. People who are being targeted by bigots deserve the most support and solidarity. This should be obvious.
Sending love for living in Florida because Jesus CHRIST! Stay brave fellow queer soldiers 🫡🫡🫡🫡
I feel like Chappell's work shows a desire within her to bring to light queerness that exists in spaces where people try to suppress and conceal it. I feel like she's talked about this in interviews. That seems liberating to me.
as a Bi woman i never thought to good luck babe was about a Bi woman. bc why would a Bi woman be sad she ended up with a man… if she likes men too?? it’s clearly about a closeted lesbian lol
Bi femme here and couldn't agree more. We've lost the plot.
Agree as a bi women
completely agree with this
I think it's for women who claim to be bi, but are probably actually lesbians. Compulsatory heterosexuality is a real thing. As a bi (maybe lesbian) woman myself, i sometimes wonder if I really like men, or if it's just easier to date men, even if it's less fulfilling?! I could have a boyfriend tomorrow if I wanted to, but dating women requires more effort. And let's be real, we're all exhausted and lonely... which puts us in a weird dichotomy.
"you can kiss a hundred boys in bars" is obv like, no matter how many boys you kiss or how committed you go with marrying the dude, you are who you are and it can't be changed by willpower alone. to me that screams "don't settle for comphet, it's never going to be what you're trying to force it to be"
Also extremely tired of people thinking they can tell a persons gender or sexuality by looking at them
seems like people not only making assumptions of other's identities, but the cishet is still such a default even online... its a wonder those are still big these days.
The thing is, gender non-conformists are the very small minority who are not part of the norm. Most people naturally born male identify as such and the same goes for women.
@@BroJo676 In queer spaces there are many more trans or non-binary people though.
I'm just tired of having gender of sexuality be the fiirst things to know about somebody.
YES THANK YOU 🙌
AS A NON-BINARY PANSEXUAL LIVING IN A RED STATE:
Here’s what I have to say to people who don’t want Chappell coming to our states! 🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻
I have voted Democrat since I was legally allowed to vote, and I DID NOT put those people in office, it’s NOT MY FAULT! SO DO NOT punish ME FOR BEING OUTNUMBERED IN A RED STATE. I still wanna see Chappell too!
Sending you a big virtual hug. Don’t listen to those trying to police your comfort artist.
She's the princess of the midwest. Do they think she should not be allowed to go to her royal domain?
@@lmnlstesso glad you speak for all midwestern pansexuals, so proud of our democratically elected ambassador of midwestern queers💀
@@lmnlstesYou're miserable and sad leave us happy people alone
Retweet
As someone in a red state.. please don’t turn your back on us. A place where all of us can gather and share that energy with each other is just so special. Gives hope to those who arguably most need it
I mean Chappell is literally from a red state, why would she turn her back on queer people from red states? It's just ragebait from terminally online idiots.
YES!
Republican have written policy on their official site to ban Same Sex Marriage
So good luck in red state
gives hope to my trans 13yo who has to live in Texas rn
This. 100% this.
The funniest thing is everyone calling Good Luck Babe a bisexual anthem when After Midnight exists lmao.
THIS
I think this really just proves that most people making that argument probably haven’t listened to the full album
This song is so underrated compared to her other songs, idk why it wasn't a single when she dropped like 9 of em
Lol ikr! I mean, art is to be interpreted and whatnot, but Good Luck Babe is SOOO clearly a lesbian song lol
If everyone abandons me, the after midnight bassline has got me 😭
"dont bring your cishet bf" what if the cishet bf likes chappell's music? my dad is a cishet 58 yr old guy and he was actually the one to introduce me the chappell because he loved pink pony club and femininomenon so much lol
plus what if he's ace? how can you actually tell they're het or cis?? like people are circling back to the "i can tell you're trans" narrative and it's not cute
I swear to god if one day I pass well enough that someone sees me with a friend at a concert and thinks I'm their "cishet bf" I will feel so offended. I can guarentee not everyone who looks like a straight cis man is a straight cis man.
- Signed, a trans man who has fellow trans male friends who look like cishet men (even though they aren't cis or straight)
Didn't mean for my comment to reply to yours, hope you don't mind shfjdk
I don't think dad's are thr problem, I think the heteonormative baggage a lot of women drag along with their boyfriends is the problem. The "who left the toilet seat up" of it all.
Is it just me or did my original reply get deleted? Idk why... Weird
It's cool to see Chappell dipping into the gay pop genre that Jojo Siwa invented
Actual bruh moment unlocked lmao
HELP IM DYING
Everyone is inspired by Jojo that's why she's a queen 😝😝
The emotions I felt before I realized this was a joke 😭
The way i choked 💀
As a bisexual guy who likes him some girly pop, the whole gatekeeping around Chappell Roan feels really misguided. I understand marginalized communities wanting something that's just for them, but like you said, artists don't really have much of a say on who likes their music or how they interpret it, especially when that artist has such an increasingly large audience. Take Taylor Swift for example. She's had white supremacists try to claim her as some Aryan princess, AND a slew a fans who are convinced she's secretly gay and comb through her lyrics to find out who her secret sapphic lover is.
Incidentally, I got to see Chappell live a few weeks ago and it was kind of an accident of circumstance. I showed her to my lesbian neighbor who ended up really latching onto her, and she was going to go with her girlfriend but they broke up at the last minute, and since I'm the one who introduced her, she invited me. I was a little weary because I knew about the fan discourse and I stood out like a sore thumb. I didn't have anything that matched the dress code and the gayest piece of clothing I own is a Caroline Polachek T-shirt. But no one bullied me and I ended up having a blast. There was even a TikTok from that show that went viral where two people tried to teach this old security guard the Hot To Go dance.
As for the whole criticism about turning down the White House while also performing in red states? Look, I think we lost the plot with canceling celebrities for woke points when someone made a list of people who should be blocked for not putting watermelon emojis in their bio and included Alan Rickman.
I guess the lesson here is don't let terminally online jerks dictate what you can and can't like.
As a bi artist guy it blows my mind they would try and limit her success as an artist too. I just "discovered" her a few days ago and am obsessed with her. Reminds me of a more refined Leslie and the Lys style with Kate Bush's vocals and makes my 80s kid heart sing. Why would anyone want to hold the joy and story of being gay to the rest of the world? Every big artist goes mainstream gives all of us more acceptance. It only helps Queer people to accept everyone with open arms. I remember when working to get gay marriage passed in Iowa the main thing was going door to door and meeting people to show gay folk were just people wanting to have commitment like everyone else. Having a Queer artist "make it" is like going to the doors of thousands of houses daily, it opens up so many doors and conversations. We need this especially in this climate nowadays.
Also, ain't Alan Rickman dead? Why put him on the list?
@@mehlover Exactly.
Exactly. The chronically online, clearly don't seem to have empathy of any kind really.
Do you know what project 2025 is? We're not losing the plot. This is a different time, than any other time. It's just disappointing, that she felt the need to publicly denounced, the only other option to keep our rights....., if Trump gets into power, we won't even have a right to protest. They almost have the power now to do these things, if we let any more Republicans get into office, we will be screwed.
I genuinely implore you to look into, project 2025 and what they are going to do to us all.
For example these are some of the things they want to make illegal
Condoms and contraceptives
Gay marriage (and potentially queer s*x)
They want to make it, illegal to be trans, and therefore illegalized gender-affirming care. Anybody who disagrees with the sex at birth, being your gender, will deal with legal consequences
They want to make it illegal to protest
They want to make abortion illegal in every single state
They want to get rid of Medicaid and Medicare
They're going to take away federally funded housing from thousands of people.
One of the scariest things I've seen, is that they want to make it so that s*x offenders, can be e*ecuted. Considering how, they want to make being queer, being trans, illegal, it would fall under s*xually related crimes. You can also look at the fact that that's why they're trying to paint us all as groomers, and using that type of terminology with us.
This is exactly why I stay off twitter. As a bisexual woman, I first listened to Chappell’s music last year and the first thing I did was show it to my cishet boyfriend. He’s now a bigger fan of her than I am.
no fr, my bf won't admit it but he loves when I have Chappell on cooking dinner or something, he literally came in dancing to Hot to Go the one night and it was so funny bc he never would ever admit that he likes her 🤣
me and my boyfriend literally do the Hot to Go dance in the car🤭
Yeah I am a cishet girl but love Chappell's music? Why couldn't I love it?
Hell, my cis, bi boyfriend introduced me to her cause he knows I was only ever in sapphic relationships before I started dating him. He knows my taste in music, and that I would really appreciate the relatability. He looks like any normal dude but he's legit kissed more men than I ever have so... I'm still taking him to one of her concerts, idc lmao.
@@rachelrandolph2579that's why we don't want cishet men at concerts, they're literally ashamed of liking chappel
Bisexuals strongly relating to her music does not erase the lesbian experience. Our experiences overlap. Just fyi, people.
Nothing is wrong with that but don’t take literal lesbian music or any lesbian art and label it “bi” that erases the lesbian experience. It may overlap but it is still different and we need to respect each other’s boundaries when it comes to that
I think bisexual women always do this. Take things that were directly created to represent lesbians by lesbians and then claim it as some sort of bisexual anthem or bisexual symbols. They can’t stand not making everything about them for a second.
@@starlethearlet237So After Midnight can’t be called a bi-anthem? A song that positively frames kissing girls AND boys? What even is your argument??
This is what I'm saying🎉❤
@@starlethearlet237 "nothing is wrong with that"
* proceeds to claim there is something wrong with that *
the red states discourse has to be rage bait I stg...as someone who lives in a conservative flyover state where a lot of big artists don't even stop on their tours Chappell sold out both of her performances and getting to see so many queer people attend was so special. so happy for her success, only a little bit sad that her tours in the future are bound to be spensyyyyy
That’s so beautiful
IKR! Just because it's a Red state doesn't mean there aren't LGBTQ+ and Queer people in that state!
Also she's from Missouri. Like hello???
@@TheForeignersNetworkexactly! she of all people knows the large LGBT+ communities hidden within these bumfuck red states 😭
Queer people live everywhere, it's so ridiculous the way some folks suggest "just moving".
my ex and i are both bi, he wasnt ready to talk about it, but he always loved going to pride with me. the tweet saying why would a man be there is just so weird, straight trans men? other queer men? … it feels like *some* of her fans are rad-fems that want to twist chapels sexuality for their own narratives to be pushed and it’s so gross.
I really really hope that the tweet was "who's allowed at pride" discourse satire
I saw another video recently that also mentioned there are very cishet passing gay/lesbian people as well. I think to a well trained eye I am very clearly gay but I live in a red midwestern state… people assume I’m cishet and wouldn’t think twice about it (I’m neither)
The “why would a man be there” is in reference to a tiktok sound I’m guessing……
right??? what's up with the man hate in the queer community?? there are men who are queer, fucking obviously!? like, wtf?
ALSO, there's such a thing as an ALLY????? Like, what is the actual issue with a cishet person walking in solidarity with queer people? Claiming there should be complete separation is such segregatory discourse.
I feel like it's also really presumptuous to see a masc presenting person with a bi woman and thinking "straight boyfriend."
This! :)
yesss. I am a bi woman in a committed relationship with a man. He likes to dig on me because he's kissed more men than I have lol.
Exactly... Bi, pan, and trans men exist. It's really narrow minded to assume all masc presenting people are straight.
Heck, could even just be a gender fluid lovely on a masc day is all; and now they're being shamed by their own community members for it. It's NOT okay to assume a person's gender or orientation, especially for the point of exclusion.
Wasn't the whole point of our modern movement that ALL forms of existing, loving, and romancing have validity?
@@Paint57NoBlueNow that sounds like an amazing boyfriend 😂✨
Right. Like how can someone look at two people that they have never met before in their life and just decide what their respective sexual/romantic attractions and genders are? And if they're intersex or not? Not to mention, none of ya business.
Straight cis white male here; hate to break it to people but I’ve been listening to Chappell Roan non stop for four years now. Not once have I considered her sexuality - I know a very straight dude take. This is reality though; she’s a wonderful musician and it’s been a joy watching her journey. So happy for her and I’ll continue to support her.
As a trans lesbian I hadnt even heard of her until watching a Twitch Streamer put her in a Sims 4 Pride Tournament
❤❤
You're not straight listening to this stuff.
@@OWlsfordshire How so? That's an odd take - I also listen to Dorian Electra, Pouty Face, Dua Lipa, Poppy, Frank Ocean - does that make me gay? By your (flawed) logic you are then straight for listening to any straight artist whose lyrics reference straight relationships. Weird take.
@@lofihifi792 Yeah, it's very telling. Doesn't mean you like guys, but you definitely are too deep into female mentality. You have identity issues.
i know this is such a shocking revelation for some people but cishet men can and should engage with and enjoy queer and female artists. it's actually incredible that some cishet men are fans of chappell roan. would you rather they hate her? would you rather they avoid her at all costs because she's a gay woman? like what would you rather happen here seriously
For real.
Agree, also as a bi woman, I feel like a lot of hetero or bi artists also market themselves to look also desirable to men and utilise their sexuality to market themselves, which is their right, and good for them if it's true to their identity, but it's nice to see that even without Chappell Roan doing that stuff to make herself palatable or desirable to men, that there's guys who genuinely are just there for the music and performances and cool stage looks in a non-romantic/non-sexual way. It feels healing for me to know there's hetero guys out there who can and do appreciate great lesbian bops by a lesbian artist, when my experience of the world has always communicated to me that I need to market myself to be palatable to men in order for any male human to appreciate anything I have to offer as a woman in the world in general.
Fella of a pan gal here - I love this artist. She ( I just had to confirm that in another tab) has made just the most beautiful pop music about desire and artsy expression and the bittersweet joy of youthful eros.
Ik it's like when people you say if you're straight and enjoy certain fandoms and music that you're lying??? Like, no?? Everybody can like whatever they want. As long as you can appreciate the importance some things hold to queer people (Like Chappell Roan and Freddie Mercury and David Bowie) but you can still enjoy it? Idk man, it's weird. You can actually branch out in music and artists and fandoms as a straight person. I think it's a good thing, to be able to enjoy them. Would you rather them be like, "Nah, this fandom/artist isn't full of straight people so I don't like it." Like really?
Coming from a cishet female, I don't fully understand what the experiences or insights of actual queer people would be, but I feel like I'm open-minded enough to sort of try and understand it. Don't quote me on this, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. ^^
@@mist8814 Yeah it's great :)
I feel like a lot of people in our community just so chronically online and find the tiniest thing to complain about :/
Chappell Roan deserves to have fans of ALL sexualities *and yes that includes cishet men*. Why wouldn't we want someone in our community finding success? Why are we trying to drag her down??
There was a MUNA podcast that talked about how just from a numbers perspective, queer artists NEED non-queer support in order to make it big. I think it’s a good thing that she is getting so much support from all kinds of people.
I do hate that it’s getting harder to see her now. I had the chance to see her for $35 + fees and now im standing face to face with i told you so😭
exactlyyyy
I'm a masc lesbian with many straight friends who is chronically online and I'm working on introducing her music to my straight/cis friends. Please don't blame it on chronicle onlineness, it's just idiocy and gatekeeping
Also if Chappell's music and aesthetics and overall references to queer culture make just 1 cis het man to reconsider certain things or educate himself isn't that great? Also why are we gatekeeping pride, isn't pride supposed to be a public demonstration? I don't get why people would say they want visibility for us and that we want to end heteronormativity and toxic masculinity and then claim cishet men shouldn't be near us, our art or our culture. How can't they understand both things are not compatible at all?
@@eykyra this!!!!
I saw a male cover of good luck babe that changed the lyrics to be from the perspective of a mlm situation, and I thought it was obvious from the first listen, but so many people in the comments were saying nasty things and telling him to delete it, and how straight men can’t leave queer people anything, thinking it was a cover from the man from Chappells songs perspective. Other comments were kind of infantilizing Chappell saying how distraught she could possibly be if she saw this cover, like it would mentally affect her, which is very weird. Apparently it spread on Twitter to a point where the guy made an updated comment apologizing for the whole thing. I had all good interactions with other fans of hers at gov ball, but like every fandom some people are just a bit too much.
The amount of people online who jump to conclusions and assume people they like are just as sensitive as them are INSANE. I'm genuinely concerned for people now.
This reminds me of that time when a guy on TikTok did a gender-swapped cover of a Build a Bitch by Bella Poarch, where he changed the lyrics to talk about men's beauty standards; and basically everyone jumped down his throat saying how men need to make everything about them, when he didn't even try to take away from the song, he just looked at the other side of the coin.
@@mikeyjamieson4715 Wow. Lots of people do this too, it isn't a new thing. People are insane and take things wrong on purpose just to make a thing out of it. You can't please anybody.
As a musician myself, I can't imagine Chappell would be offended that another male musician covered her song and gender swapped the lyrics. She would be flattered that another musician likes her song. This whole debate is very silly.
I hate how unfun and gatekeepy the internet is becoming. Covers with lyric changes are always a blast and super cool, especially for animators like me who like to animate my ocs to different songs. I can find a cover which fits better! And covers about stuff like this can really resonate with people who relate to that experience and can bring a lot of joy and happiness! There’s lots of benefits to covers.
Yet the internet ALWAYS throws a fit and claims people are “stealing their song” despite the fact they aren’t the creators nor do they own the song. And plus the original song isn’t going anywhere, it’s still there! It’s very stupid that some people can’t just scroll past a cover they dislike, they can’t just listen to and enjoy the original, they HAVE to get all gatekeepy and hostile.
As someone from the south whose state has at any given moment the potential to turn red against my will, I’m sick and tired of people deciding those in red states are deserving of their fate as if people can just move whatever politics change?? Not many people have the finances (especially now) or physicality to just bounce between states if they turn red - and no state is ever going to get better if people within it leave every time the politics change. People in red states arguably deserve representation more than people in blue states because they’re the ones suffering the lack there of currently. It feels cruel to ostracize an already particularly ostracized part of your own community
This is so well put! I honestly wonder what they think not playing in a red state would accomplish besides punishing the queer people who live in that state?
Yes! This! Especially when democrats don't help fund other democrats' campaigns in these red states, dealing with voter suppression and gerrymandering for decades. Way before when I was born. I'm afraid of FL slowly turning red after 2016 because democrats don't wanna fund our state anymore. I get that it's because of strategy, and they wanna focus where they can win. But it's leaving the most vulnerable behind here! We need representation in conservative areas, too! And there are people fighting for our rights here as best we can in a government that's already rigged against us!
especially when the cost of living is often lower in red states TT like do they expect us to just leave our whole community behind?
ughhh I feel like the internet/social media is ruining music. People seriously get angry over nothing and then take it out on the artists when they're not doing anything wrong. And trying to police who can like an artist or go to their show is so ridiculous and unproductive. Just let people like who they like and live their lives
Okay but one reason people get so gatekeepy is because the internet and social media destroyed so many of the barriers
Sometimes its just because of the loud minority in fandom 💀
The argument that she shouldn’t perform in red states is ridiculous. Chappel is literally from a red state and has said on interview that the group she wants to reach the most is the small pockets of queer spaces in unexpected places (I.e. red states).
The whole discourse of "cishet" bfs at pride or in queer spaces boggles my mind bc why are we assuming the sexuality or even gender of bisexuals "womens" boyfriend?
As a bisexual women myself the Chappell Roan fans discourse about all of this has really put me off to even listening to her & I feel so bad about it bc her songs are good & I shouldnt let fans deter me but ugggh seeing it turns me off, she is talented though & I appreciate her artistry as a queer person in 2024
People will swear up and down that biphobia doesn’t exist. Meanwhile, the same people always have our sub-community’s name in their mouth. 🤔 It kills me that some lesbians act as if bi women can’t have very similar experiences to them when we’re both sapphic. “Good Luck, Babe!” was very clearly about compulsory heterosexuality, which not just lesbians experience.
I’m definitely not team assuming folks’ identity but there are a lot of straight cis dudes who take up space at pride, or use queer spaces as an avenue for being predatory. I don’t think it’s wild for folks to have concerns. If you’ve never had weird straight dudes looking for a 3rd w/ their bisexual gf at the queer space in super uncomfy ways consider yourself lucky.
@@arianna5270 That’s definitely a concern I can understand as a bi girl. The fetishization from both straight people and queer people feels so gross and dehumanizing (looking for a “unicorn” shit). I feel like the general rule should be cishets can come if they’re invited by a member of the community/coming with one of us. It should be watched closely, they’ve proven to be problematic for our safety many times before, but an all-out ban feels wrong.
Edit: this is in the context of Pride and bars, you obviously can’t police who is coming to a music festival or concert.
I understand your point but many people, especially queer wlw women dont feel comfortable with people who have been opressing them for years, who are the cause of violence, sexism and murder against women to be in their space. They didnt respect our right to exist for millenia, they took away our rights, m*rder and r*ped us and now we cant have a place where theyre not welcomed? I'm myself not comfortable around men and i believe many queer women arent either.
and several of her fans blatantly call out and target bisexual women for "bringing their het bfs" when we should be mentioning the real problem: grown ass men both straight and gay alike for harassing women at queer events. like it's okay for gays and lesbians to bring their straight family members and friends as allies for pride and for bi people it's suddenly not? it's tiring to hear how we bi women get blamed on for everything as if men don't have consciousness of their own.
Ace guy and mild Chappell Roan fan. I mispronounced her name as “Chapelle” for WAY too long 💀
I’m having a moment of silence for you
@@wannabedrewafualooh please we all did it the first time we read her name 😭 it’s the double Ls I think
@@LeoMaraschino I didn’t bc I was thinking about a chapel. I’m an ex-Baptist but attended a catholic school so the word is burnt into the folds of my brain for eternity. 😭
I was saying ”Chapelle Rowan” so confidently
@@asmrdazzleas someone who's not a native English speaker, those sound almost exactly the same to me lol
I am a cishet man and a huuuuuge Chappell fan. Seen her twice now with my fiancé (who introduced me to her music last fall) and her crowds are the most loving, polite and fun people I’ve ever been around. Her concerts are truly one of a kind and I’m so grateful for the times I’ve seen her perform. I would hate for this “tweet” to actually become a thing because music is for everyone and Chappell’s shows are an all inclusive place for those who want to come out and have a good time. Thanks for making this video, great points!!
im a queer immigrant that grew up in South Carolina. queer people in red states desperately need representation and safe places at all times, specially queer people of color. imagine (these fans) being so privileged that the thought of that never crossed their minds or they just straight up don't care, it's actually very concerning. and the whole boyfriend situation is beyond wild, my husband and i look like a hetero couple but we're both pan. people really need to start thinking about people other than themselves, it's really hurting a community that was built on love and equality.
You know that the people that criticize her for not wanting to perform in the White House would also be criticizing her if she did.
I’m a straight woman and I love her music because they’re sonically beautiful
same! shes a great artist and people should be allowed to listen to what they want. i think its awesome shes a huge advocate for lesbians but i think everyone should listen to her!
And also, the lyrics are amazing! We don't need to be lesbian to like them. 😅
Same, I think that people should be able to listen to who ever they want, the people trying to limit people from listening to Chappell confuse me like, shouldn’t you be happy for her for getting the fame she deserved?
Music is for everyone, music unites people through borders and differences
Regarding her music I think that in the american pop landscape of the past few years of sadgirl emotional pop chappell feels like a breath of fresh air in that the music is just loud and fun. it's why people love sabrina carpenter and charli xcx so much. it's especially fresh air in the landscape of lesbian pop music which like, 99% of it is acoustic sadgirl music. it's nice to see lesbian joy presented so loudly and proudly in music that you can shake your ass to.
Like yes finally a song with a fucking beat, like thank god I already exhausted my energy for being a sadgirl™️ like a decade ago when I was still in high school
Like yes finally a song with a fucking beat, like thank god I already exhausted my energy for being a sadgirl™️ like a decade ago when I was still in high school
Agreed. I love seeing sapphic artists explore more styles and themes in music that don't only talk about the sad parts but also the fun ones.
yes!!
ever since finding out the no kink at pride conversation turned out to be purposefully started by anti lgbt internet dwellers disguised as lgbt accounts i get suspicious when certain arguments are started on twitter.
LITERALLY! A subreddit I really liked got absolutely wrecked for a week or two because someone came on and posted something like "why are queer spaces so islamaphobic?" Which started a big argument and every time it started to die down they posted something else. Of course, it was a brand new reddit account... It's especially frustrating when conversations that need to happen get co-opted by people trying to use them to stir up controversy.
Can you explain the no kink at pride conversation? I’m a queer person and my first thought is to keep pride as family friendly as possible for general events but that 18+ events can be more sexual.
@@astranova1674 pride didnt start as a family friendly event. the whole premise is freedom of sexual expression. expecting pride to be family friendly is not going to make it so. queer youth do deserve their own spaces but i dont know if a major pride event is it.
Not only that, but a majority of the pics they use as "evidence" usually turns out to be from the Folsom Street Fair, a kink based event.
@@archwayofcesar I kinda feel like adults in kink spaces have a better chance of finding each other outside of the mainstream while minors need sfw events they can find and access easily, and in most things the "mainstream" side of it is the family friendly stuff, because people are more likely to find it without actively looking
It’s been an exhausting month to be bisexual. Like damn, am I supposed to leave my bi boyfriend home for pride? Because somehow we cancel out each other’s queerness? I gotta go to a concert alone in a city I don’t know well, because he’s not allowed to be there? I’m supposed to walk back to the train station after the concert alone and feel safe?
Basically, the assumption, I think, is that Bi men don't exist and all cishet men are dangerous.
It's a ridiculous take.
Can Bi men take their cishet girlfriends to chappell roan concerts? There's no difference except your preconcieved notion about men you percieve as straight and cis (which is an assumption might not even be correct about)
It's not so easy these days to look at someone and know they're a cishet person. Surgery is pretty good these days , and not everyone is a walking stereotype. Not that not having surgery is an issue.
I feel this😅I'm seeing Chappell at a music festival soon with my boyfriend and I'm lowkey nervous to get judgmental looks for being at her set at this point. A subset of Chappell's fans have created such an uncomfortable culture surrounding her... a few weeks ago it was gatekeeping Good Luck Babe and proclaiming that a bi woman could not relate to that song.* Then, this week I have seen many people say it was inappropriate for Sabrina Carpenter to sing Good Luck Babe since she isn't LGBTQ, which people argued with---not by stressing that you don't need to relate to a song to cover it---but instead by trying to prove that Sabrina is bisexual or that this cover was her way of coming out😑.
The gatekeeping is so extreme to the point that it genuinely feels like they want Chappell's career to fail. It's not even like Chappell herself is encouraging this nonsense, they have just taken it upon themselves to assert that she is for lesbians only for no reason.
*IMO that claim was just blatantly false as (contrary to popular belief) comphet is not experienced by exclusively lesbians. Many bi women would rather date a man they feel less passionate about than publicly engage in a lesbian relationship due to internalized social pressures.
@@overdeckkIf you get bad looks just know it’s coming from terminally online people haha, in the real world at concerts people are usually there for the music
LOL
No one ever believes women when they tell you who they are, if a woman tells you she’s a lesbian people insist she’s bisexual, if a woman insists she’s bisexual they insist she’s straight, if she’s trans she’ll be constantly misgendered if she doesn’t perform hyper femininity at all times. This isn’t a straight people thing either, this is a problem in LGBTQ spaces too, it’s just misogyny plain and simple.
Or you could bring a friend?
God how braindead have we become. Thank you for seeing through the bullshit discourse im exhausted.
A little while ago, Todd In The Shadows posted his Best Hit Songs of 2023. In it, he included songs by Sabrina Carpenter and Victoria Monet, saying they had major chances of becoming A-list pop stars in the future. I offered my own suggestion: Chappell Roan. I'm glad to see she's taken off like she has, as she really is a talented artist. Also can't wait for her to inevitably become a guest judge on Drag Race.
yesss let's hope she makes it on next season!!!
Judging by some tweets of his, there's a good chance Good Luck Babe will be on his Best of 2024 list.
@@lunawhoran oh, you know they’re going to have her on as soon as they can. I can already hear RuPaul introducing an episode with “with EX-tra special guest judge, Chappell Roan!”
todd has mentioned her on twitter a few times positively, i have a feeling we might be seeing good luck babe on his best of list this year
@@grahamkristensen9301 Let's hope so! I'm not surprised Todd would like her, she seems right up his alley with the pop music he seems to like. Not to mention, Good Luck Babe is an awesome track (just like many of her others), so it'd be a pleasant surprise to see him include it on his list.
im sorry the "dont bring your cishet bf" its so painfully chronically online its funny. like who r U 2 tell ppl what to do man LMAOO
EXACTLYYY - they be acting like it’s a lesbian bar 💀
It's really disheartening. I'm a 33 year old cis man who's been a loving ally for as long as I was old enough to understand gay rights. I try to be an incredibly safe person and have been welcomed to many queer spaces. I love Chappel Roan and I don't understand the blanket hatred towards someone like me. It's new and not a sentiment expressed in my social circles.
The concept that Safe Space means excluding people based on things they can't control feels really counter intuitive.
YES!!!!
Right and why are they acting like all queer people are inherently safe. They'll watch a drag queen vogue on Chappell Roan's stage and say "cishet men would make this unsafe" as if vogueing wasn't invented because BIPOC gays weren't safe in white queer spaces.
I think ally’s and people who are willing to educate themselves about queer topics should be allowed into queer spaces so they can learn more from our experiences . If we want to advocate more for an inclusive and accepting, tolerant world we have to let people be educated about our experiences and identities, including letting people outside the community be able to be involved in queer spaces and safe spaces, that way we can truly put in positive change .
@@angelheartzz6350 I love your comment, it's so true. Gatekeeping and segregating out non queer people is not going to help the goals of inclusivity and tolerance. I am a male cishet ally, attends pride fairs, and recently got into Chappell. People please don't lump us altogether with the deplorables, that's counter-intuitive.
why do some people assume all bisexual women date cishet men, literally erasing the existence of bi or trans men? some discussions bring the worst in gays i swear
Is this the worst in guys? I still hope to never see anything near as bad as the TERFy behavior in OG L Word. They made the characters apologize in Generation Q because it was that bad.
As a bisexual woman it gets on my nerves bc my partner is literally a pre transition trans woman who's also bi and poly. Really ridiculous to water down bisexuals to straight people who want attention
i really can't stand these terfy misogynistic lesbians
not even that, some bi women do in fact, prefer women :)
Im literally bi dating a trans guy, like...
Here before the Thumbnail change
This thumbnail actually got me to click! Usually it's the title that draws me in but this time it's the thumbnail!
What was the og thumbnail ❗️❗️❗️❗️
Here in case it gets deleted
Moi aussi
close-up professional pic of her at govball with the two tweets in the current thumbnail previously placed in the bottom right
on the note about “don’t bring your cishet boyfriend” etc….i think it’s so interesting how some people within communities built on inclusivity will not see the irony of actively excluding those who are different from them. there are definitely scenarios where an all queer only setting is necessary and appropriate, but unless chappell herself says NO CISHETS, like ??? you can’t make that decision for her. the MORE people of ALL DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES bonding over queer AF music, the better!!!!
Chappell Roan actually started posting covers in 2014 and released her first single in 2017! She’s been at it for a loooonnng time. Takes a decade to become an overnight sensation.
i am a massive little monster and have been for 15 years. Lady Gaga changed my life. I see ALOT of Lady Gaga in Chappell Roan and i am BEYOND excited to watch the rest of her career blossom, her music is campy and fun and her voice is out fucking standing. The Gaga comparisons are not to be taken lightly. People saying shes overrated are not paying attention. wish me luck getting tickets to All Things Go NYC and getting to witness her live during this pivotal time in music and her career!! ❤
I wish people would stop comparing her to Gaga. She’s nothing like Gaga and it’s putting this assumption that she’s trying to be like her or copy her, like the arguments years ago that Gaga was trying to be like Madonna. Unique people exist independently and don’t need to be associated or labelled as influenced by each other just bc their persona is also unique.
@@holaitserin I don't see her as trying to be like/copying Gaga at all, I understand your point as someone who absolutely hates when people say Gaga copied Madonna. I merely said I see some of Gaga in her, and to say she wasn't influenced by her is flat out wrong. When she covers Bad Romance, she does the original choreography which only a little monster would know. In terms of music, creativity and image Chappell is VASTLY different from Gaga but like Gaga and Madonna, the cultural impact of an over the top artist in a mainstream space with a new sound and massive queer appeal is similar. She is going to change music the way people before her have done. I'm comparing the anticipated direction of her career, NOT the art at all.
@@singincindy I don’t think only LM’s would know the choreography, it was a popular music video at its time and did go viral again on TikTok years ago, and she is a self proclaimed chronic online girl so could have easily learnt it from there or just in general without being a LM. I also think the reason for her blow up and appeal to the queer community is because she’s an ACTUAL queer artist making queer music for queer people. Madonna and Gaga did not start their careers or appeals as such, more so just appealed to and profited off of our community because they went against the grain which is what we saw or felt ourselves to be represented as.
@@holaitserin I completely disagree. The music video being popular doesn't mean non LMs were doing the dance. For the past 15 years since the song came out, I have only ever seen people do the dance at her concerts or LMs doing the dance in videos online. You seem to forget that Lady Gaga had the reputation of being seen as weird and strange by the mainstream consumer, I was bullied in school for being a fan of hers, why would people be doing those dances unless they really felt a connection to her or her music? And virality on TikTok is very subjective nowadays, anything can go 'viral' and still stay within certain communities. I certainly don't remember the dance being viral, and I think LMs wouldve heard about it if it did go viral outside of our community. Lastly, Lady Gaga IS a queer artist who has ALWAYS made queer music for queer people. In her earliest interviews she states that very clearly. She is one of the most influential queer artists of all time, it's absolutely wild to think Chappell wouldn't be influenced by her. Once again though I think the point is being missed that I'm comparing the trajectory of their careers and their impact on pop culture, NOT the art that they create. I don't see an issue with saying that an influential artist influences younger artists.
@@singincindy the issue is that Gaga is constantly being cited as the only artist that could possible influence others that have a ‘unique’ take. I remember when Gaga emerged into mainstream media, and I was a chronic online stan Twitter user who, amongst many others, were on the receiving end of LM’s attacks for stanning anyone who wasn’t Gaga, and every other artist was accused of copying Gaga if they did something out of the ordinary, as if she was the pinnacle of originality - to which she was not. Yet, they’d all get defensive if someone compared her to Madonna. Gaga herself has stated that she does not represent or speak for the queer community which is an odd thing to say when she has also claimed to be bisexual so that in and of itself is a bit contradictory. But I suppose that is also in reference to her music.She has also stated that Poker Face was about fantasising about women, and she has had sexual relationships with women but has only ever fallen in love or had romantic relationships with men. So her songs reflect this, unlike Chappell’s which, apart from a couple that reflect when she was in a relationship with a man and longing for a woman, are lesbian derived and coded.
LM’s we’re not the only ones doing the choreography. It’s choreography that was in a very, very popular televised and shared music video, which was consumed by everyone. Trends are not exclusive to fan bases, especially dances. And yes, it did go viral again a couple of years ago. I’m not a LM and people doing the dance from a variety of ages was all over my FYP.
It’s becoming tiring seeing any emerging or unique artist be instantly compared to or said to be influenced by Gaga. It’s about as tiring as it was for LM’s to constantly hear and object the Madonna or Björk comparisons throughout Gaga’s career. Chappell is heavily influenced by Drag culture, as she continuously states.
i wish we could actually just delete the internet because people are getting so chronically online its actually scaring me - i cant imagine being this detached from real human society. this shit is scary to me
My favourite personal Chappell lore is that at her Sydney show last year we all saw phones out but not a single one of the people I’ve talked to who went has or has seen any pictures of the gig since
What? Can you tell more about it? I'm curious! 😂
Wth 😭
People really don’t have to be one sexuality or another to relate to GLB. For instance, as a transwoman, the song is very relatable. There are men who are so insecure about their attraction to transwomen that they like to keep their relationships a secret. Well, good luck babe.
After hearing it, I teared up with joy and gave my husband a hug, because I finally met someone who didn’t treat me like his dirty secret.
I'm so happy for you. 💕
This just reinforces my desire to only listen to the music and not engage with stans or even music fandom at large. Not trying to be pretentious, but i was better off when i just jammed to her songs and didn’t know any of this bullshit takes from people.
a lot of biphobia is just repackaging misogyny and gender essentialism. not all bi women date straight men, in fact most straight women won’t date bi men so both people in a couple being bi is common and is still a queer relationship. it seems like these ppl on twitter have just seen people who look like a woman and a man together at pride and made assumptions about them both 🧐 bisexuals have historically been excluded from pride so it tracks ig
oh my god… rejecting the corrupt and pretentious government to perform to actual lgbt+ people in red states who feel isolated??? I LOVE HER EVEN MORE
I am exhausted of online discourse and try to opt out of reading it whenever I can because this kind of shit just stresses me out. Your videos are so clearheaded and help me get a handle on what's going on without needing to dive in head first at my own risk. I appreciate your work so much.
Ugh, same. I ended up deleting Twitter and TikTok before ever becoming super active because the discourse within the LGBTQ+ communities there is so toxic... not that it's much better on the rest of social media. I feel much more welcome now that I don't know all the nasty things some are saying about people like me.
I'm so tired of the discourse around all the places folks who are bi or otherwise multiply attracted "shouldn't" be allowed (and I have noticed this often doesn't even acknowledge bi men.) Beyond the ridiculousness of trying to gatekeep who enjoys & supports an artist, you cannot tell someone's deal just by looking at them at a concert. Like, I am not dating anyone straight, but I can't control if some stranger looks at my partner and jumps to incorrect assumptions that we're a cishet dyad invading a queer space rather than just also queer & here to have a good time.
Anyhow, I probably won't be able to afford to bring someone with when she's next in town, so I'll just focus on being happy she's getting her recognition!
Lesbian: makes deeply personal music.
Cishet man: finds it moving, engaging, and sympathetic.
Internet lesbians: "how dare you?"
Chronically online people just kind of forget what human interaction is supposed to be, huh?
These arguments feel bad because they feel terfy
Honestly, they really do. The people making the arguments probably don’t even realise it, but they do feel a little terfy.
Because terfs are biphobic
I'm waiting on a full out Hemlocke Springs album because her EP is so good, she's already been doing tour dates and she is so refreshing to see in the music space 😌
yessss I love her ep 😭
YES! just listened to her after some Chappell today. Underrated!
ME TOO I ADORE HER
I’m glad she’s here and people know about her
SEATED!! this title is already everything.
I just learned about her a couple of weeks ago and love her music. I love her costumes. She seems very genuine.
44 yr old straight lady here. I am very slow to find Chappell. I instantly fell in love with her music and wish her nothing but success.
THANK YOU! As a loooongtime Chappell fan who's so stoked she's blown up FINALLY, I have zero desire to gatekeep from anyone. I have zero desire to criticize her for who she plays to because it's her freaking career and she's doing so much good for the LGBTQ+ communities. My boyfriend is a big Chappell fan and is truly the most wonderful ally and supporter I know. It seems wild to me to say, "hey you can't come here." Isn't that kind of the opposite of what we want? To deny supporters and fans is bananas. Furthermore, I live in a primarily red state (florida) but I'm from and often visit my home state which is a mixed bag of crap (Michigan). My 16 year old queer niece who lives in smalltown Michigan should be able to see Chappell (and she did a couple weeks ago), despite that she lives in a very conservative small town environment.
Also, yes, if people think she's overrated or don't like her I could not give a crap less. I like her and so do others. That's what matters to me. All music is not "for" everyone and that's totally fine by me.
being early for this is my “unemployed people on tuesday at 3pm” moment
Relatable.
She’s been famous for 5 years!? I just learned about her today.I gotta get out from under my rock more often.
shes been making music for 6 years,shes only become well known recently. first with her album and then she blew up for real with Good luck babe
Yeah, according to google trends she's been famous for 6 months. At least part of it was that Midwest Princess made a lot of "best of 2023" lists so people looked it up, and then of course the Guts Tour.
Just listened to a playlist on TH-cam. I have no choice but to get all her albums on my way home from work today. She knows her lesbian demographic well.
@@lakegroce685 Enjoy!
Her first album is a lot less interesting. I mean, it's not bad, but it's a much less distinctive style than Midwest Princess.
to me, this mostly seems like growing pains of her jumping from an alt / indie darling to pop stardom very quickly. i feel like before this year, she kinda had a similar following to that of ethel cain, but now it definitely feels like shes grown out of that and people dont know how to handle it. it makes me sad because she deserves her success so much, her songs are not meant to be played in small venues, she is meant to have those huge crowds, she is meant to be a huge popstar!
also to add to a small point you brought up in the video, the whole discourse about using songs to determine or assume the sexuality of an artist is so ridiculous because we can never really understand until they say it themselves, like chappell did. for example, i was listening to greta van fleet's highway tune and in the whole song they refer to a woman, meanwhile the lead singer josh kiszka at the time was (and still is) in a relationship with a man! like you said, it sorta overlooks the fact that lgbt people often feel more comfortable with expressing and defining themselves as time goes by.
I saw Chappell last year before she super duper blew up (I became a fan during the Naked in Manhattan era). It completely blows my mind that some people don't see her success as a good thing?? Everyone always talk about how we need more famous LGBTQ+ artists, but then when they get popular we try to gatekeep them & say they're ONLY "for the gays" (and not in the wholesome way, in the gatekeep-y way). Chappell is a gift and everyone deserves to be blessed with her music 🎶💖🗽
Also there are SO MANY other amazing queer artists that are lesser known than Chappell and just as talented and important to the community. It’s almost insulting to them to act as if Chappell is the one and only lesbian representative in music
1) Chappell is such a fucking G for turning down the White House
AND
2) I have seen her live twice, both in a red state, and both times I cried because of how amazing it felt to be surrounded by the girls, the gays, and the vibes so anyone advocating against that is out of touch with reality and also my personal enemy 😤
Much like recent fanbase activity, i worry that her insufferable stans are going to cause her problems as she continues to grow
TLDR Version: Twitter gonna twitter
If Chappell herself said that she didn't want bi fans, or cishet fans, that'd be disappointing. The fans of hers that are trying to exclude people aren't doing her any favors.
this is the kind of arguing and infighting that made me not participate in queer online spaces anymore. like, bi people are allowed to relate to good luck babe, even if it is ultimately a lesbian song. i have related to characters of color and their experiences dispite being a white person because a lot of feelings are more universal as to apply to one singular group. i think that us lesbians need to team up with the bi women and if you are in any offline queer space, we are. not once has a bi woman looked me in the eyes and invalidated my lesbian identity and not once have i told a bi woman to her face that her experiences aren‘t as queer as mine because when you‘re in person with a fellow wlw, you‘re not thinking about that. the only people who have said these things to me were hiding behind keyboards. and i know that for a lot of people, their online community is all they have because it‘s not safe for them to be out or in queer spaces irl. but for the love of god, pick a singular blade of grass. everything is not an attack on you and real life is a whole lot messier than you can evaluate from your little screen, there is nuance to everything. you don‘t know if someone‘s boyfriend is straight or cis to begin with. and as long as they‘re not ruining the vibes, nobody cares. we have more important issues to worry about, last year at my local pride, some rando beat up a trans guy, who later died from the injuries. i don‘t care if you bring your straight boyfriend to pride. we have more pressing issues.
Honestly kinda...anyone can relate to it? It just depends how deeply you relate to it, I suppose. Obviously number one is lesbians then Sapphic people, but like...the concept of regretting a marriage / feeling like someone is with the wrong person is pretty simple on its own. That's kind of...why music is great? Like multiple people can get something from a song even if they weren't the number one target because people's lifes are different and our brains are different.
It's (imo) like how I've seen gay women love some of Taylor Swifts songs despite them sometimes referencing guys.
I’m a cisgender straight woman who has discovered Chappell roan’s music this year and I think she is a true example of a renaissance woman and I still find myself singing pink pony club when I’m alone and to be honest, she has gotten me through this harsh year. In terms of artists blowing up I hope people like Becky G, Renee rapp, and Rina Sawayama will keep getting big this year.
rina sawayama needs to blow up like chappell and renee rapp (who I love) her 2020 album SAWAYAMA is perfect but she didn't get to tour bc covid. her second album hold the girl is beautiful and about healing ur inner child. she has stadium pop, metal, and country-sounding songs bc she leans into the emotion of the songs so no two songs ar e the same and its an experience!! XS is about consumerism and capitalism so its bubblegum pop-y , STFU is about her experience with racism and microaggressions and her anger she cant express so it is heavier/metal ish for example. she makes good pop music that has so many layers and shes is a great performer and person
cherry and the piano version are songs about her sexuality. chosen family is also amazing
Agree with all your song picks and just wanted to add that Frankenstein from Hold The Girl is another absolute bop 👌
Love Rina but Hold The Girl was a flop
@@EF-kk3vh i loooove frsnkenstein
big agree. I saw her live and she was amazing, can't wait to see what she puts out next. I wear my hold the girl concert tee around and gush about her whenever I can lol
I’m the straight boyfriend. I got
Introduced to Pink Pony Club a couple years ago and I jam hard to that shit
I've also been seeing a lot of conversations online about who certain songs are for and how people interpret them. Both sides of the argument have good points: songs once released can have different contexts, memories, or feelings for different people. I think that's the nature of art. I saw someone on Twitter say they were quite frustrated and disgusted that people were playing Yebba's Heartbreak at their weddings when that song is not about the healing power of romantic love but it is in fact a tribute to Yebba's mother who died from her struggle with mental illness. And that person's not wrong, I can definitely see how it would be frustrating to have such a devastating song be used in a different way. But some people aren't aware of the song's context and only know the lyrics, and sometimes people know the lyrics but they resonate with how the song sounds and how it makes them feel (an example of this is Before I Let Go, which many on second listen say is a breakup song, but it gets played at a lot of happy events like family reunions and has an upbeat beat).
As a part of the LGBT we need to stop gate keeping. It is just plain pathetic. We supposedly want to be accepted but then push people away who want to support us. We can't have our cake and eat it.
tbh the people getting legitimately mad at bisexuals for relating to a song that could be interpreted as bisexual, while complaining about how bisexuals "steal" stuff from lesbians all the time, sounds sort of biphobic.
btw gatekeeping music by sexuality and gender is absurd and discriminatory for no reason. cishet people can like whatever music they want.
So many people on social media have lost their damn minds with this gatekeeping and think pieces and Twitter rants.
On the plus side, I've found a new pop star that i may like!
I was so excited to hear your take on Chappell Roan! Clicked as soon as I saw the notification lol. Recently saw her on tour and she is an amazing performer.
An artist I’m hoping blows up is Ayla D’lyla. Her song “Money” & the accompanying music video are phenomenal.
As a bi trans guy, I really liked Chappell Roan at first. Really dug her music. Until all her rabid fans basically made me think “oh if she’s attracting this type of audience, what’s that say about her…?” Turns out she seems like a really good person, advocates for trans people (trans women too, which shocked me because a loud minority of lesbians subscribe to the terf ideology). Anyways, just wanted to give my input on how certain fans of hers are actually making people turn away from her music.
I just wanted to say real quick that the idea that a lot of cis lesbians are TERFs is not true; TERFs try to conflate the two because one of their talking points is about them supposedly “protecting” cis lesbians, but according to existing studies, cis lesbians (at least in the US; I’m not sure about other places) are not more likely to be transphobic than any other cis queer person!
And this is just anecdotal, but some of the fiercest supporters of trans people who I’ve met are out & proud cis d*kes. (P.S. in this context I’m using that word to signify affection, recognition, and respect, because where I live in a big city in the northeast US, the lesbians who I’m talking about who I’ve personally met call themselves d*kes; it’s extremely reclaimed here so it’s common for lesbian-led organizations to have d*ke in the name, etc. I wouldn’t normally censor it because the whole point is I’m referring to specific folks who want to be called that because it’s a part of their identity & a sign of affection/community in my local queer spaces, especially activism spaces, but I’m pretty sure TH-cam would automatically block it because it’s very much still a slur in many contexts, unfortunately.)
Anyway, lesbians are amazing and have done so much for the rest of the queer community, so it’s a huge bummer that TERFs (the majority of whom are straight) have managed to perpetuate this stereotype/misconception even among queer folks. I try to clue people in like this whenever I can, because it sucks that there are some trans people (including myself before I realized this) who are automatically nervous around people who in reality are likely to support them & have their backs.🧡🤍🩷
Hey, there's a bunch of lesbians who don't as well, although maybe not on X (a gender funky les)
can we stop assuming/associating terf ideology with lesbians, the majority of terfs are straight women!
Hey thanks for sharing your experience but from a genderqueer lesbian please let go of that idea that most of us are terfs. Gender non conformity is a big part of the lesbian experience and community. The terfs just happen to be a loud minority.
@houseofthewretched maybe I shouldn’t have said that. I know many genderqueer/trans/non cis lesbians. I’ll change that.
I am a bisexual woman in a hetero relationship with possibly the straightest straight man to ever exist. He loves Chappell Roan. He is not afraid to be sensitive or listen to things other straight men would call “feminine”. He sees how deeply I resonate with her songs, and that makes him happy. And while Good Luck Babe made me cry the first time I listened to it, I would never call it a “bi anthem”. People need to touch grass.
I once heard someone say, I think in a documentary but don't pin me on that, that teenage girls and woman in their early 20s have always had a major influence on what will later be known as "the greatest music/artist". People even dismissed the beatles at the beginning because their fans were mainly young woman & girls. The dismissal of artists just because they have mainly female fanbase is just one example of how woman (and their economic & cultural power) have not been taken seriously in my opinion.
So true. My mom was 15 when The Beatles first appeared on US television. She was taking pictures of the TV screen and my grandad apparently said, "In five years, you won't even remember their names." 😂
idk but the whole good luck babe situation is making yall too comfortable being biphobic because any person with media literacy regardless of sexual orientation would know what the song is about, i am bisexual and i personally relate to it because of a past experience i had with another woman, she said it was just a phase or something like that, and i see her getting married to a man and getting stuck in an unsatisfying relationship because of denying her sexuality, something i would never experience because if i end up with a man it wouldn't be a problem because i AM sexually attracted to men. it's a media literacy problem, but yall will take ANY opportunity to insult bi ppl being like "istg bi people are stupid" for not understanding a song, it has NOTHING to do with their sexual orientation (btw "yall" is not kayla says, it's the biphobic part of the lgbt community)
Straight cis guy here. I look at Chappell Roan as an absolute breath of fresh air in pop, and I really dig a lot of her music! But as a black man, I understand where a lot of queer people are coming from; many times a black artist would blow up outside of the black community wayyy after they've been popular in the black community. It starts to feel a little "Columbus Syndrome"-ish when new white fans "discover" Young Nudy's music (for example).
Given the history of oppression, it can also feel a little jarring to see members of the oppressors group show up in your space. But it doesn't have to be that way; in fact, it could be the beginning of what helps someone overcome their prejudices. Or maybe I'm just yapping
you're right and you should keep saying it
Bree Runway is an artist who needs more recognition. Dark skin pop girl who serves like no other ❣️.
yessssss!!!!!! so excited for her new era especially after she released her new single ❤❤❤
I was given free tickets to her show in Pittsburgh because I made coffee for her guitarist, but I couldn’t find anyone to go with me. I didn’t want to go alone, and I was well aware of people being internally judgy of bi girls bringing their boyfriends, so I decided it wasn’t worth going. I feel like whenever I try to be involved in the community more I get edged out by people who don’t think I’m “gay enough” because I’m bi with a boyfriend, it’s really disheartening
Pink Pony Club was playing on repeat in my head when I saw this notification 💖🐴🎀✨
as someone who has been a hardcore chappell fan since around 2021, it’s so insane to see her blow up all of a sudden. i am SO proud & happy for her & i cannot understand how some of her other fans want to gatekeep her. she’s so important for other queer people & especially queer women. seeing her grow from school nights to good luck, babe has been amazing. she’ll forever be my fav & my heart is so warm to see all her deserved success 🤍
The ''stop performing in states/places with anti-lgbtq+ laws'' argument it's so weird. As a lesbian Peruvian, if Chappell ever goes on tour here in South America, I would LOVE to go. However, according to their logic, she shouldn't come to the majority if not ALL countries here. What about us? We can't see her live for things we can't control/change immediately?
Aaaah thank you for making this! I LOVE Chappell Roan and agree with everything you said!! Been a fan of her since 2019 but would never gatekeep her from anybody, I’m so excited to see her grow this fast
Im a bisexual man. I love Chappell Roan's music. Any time ive tried to engage with conversation about her and her music online i have been told that im not allowed to enjoy her music because im a man (i even had someone tell me to kms over liking good luck babe) . My girlfriend is also bi. Multiple times she has told me about people online yelling at her about relating to the music. Idk what it is about Chappell that draws in the most hateful people in the LGBT community. The only group of people ive seen that hate people that are different from them are racists.
i understand, on one hand why ppl don't want MEN at a chappell roan concert (or just concerts in general lol), but at the same time, as a bi woman, it feels very ibvalidating to have ppl say that we can't bring our cis het boyfriends, as if our relationship, even if with a cis het man, isn't still queer. even if, from the outside it appears heteronormative, it is still a queer relationship, because one of the participants IS queer. also, how tf do you know my boyfriend's not also bisexual? this obsession of the queer community to want other queer ppl to wear their sexuality as a badge is tiring, it shouldn't concern anyone but me and who i'm dating...
another thing, we're allowed to interpret the song however we want (talking about good luck, babe, but also renee rapp songs). it's not because the artist is gay that we can't use the song to relate it to our own personal experience. for example, i love one direction songs because to me, they're very sapphic. they repeat girl over and over again, and they might be 5 officially straight boys that are singing about seemingly straight girls, something women can't relate too, because we're not men lol, doesn't mean we can't relate to the songs or make them our own. (i'm obviously not talking about people who decide the actual artist's sexuality, just the ones who discount everybody else's interpretation of songs)
anyways, great video as always kayla ❤
Many people, especially queer, gay women dont feel comfortable around people that have been opressing us for millenia for literally no reason. I dont think asking for a safe space without them is too much.
Period. The biphobia and erasure lately in some parts of the LGBT community is awful.
I never truly felt welcome in queer spaces as a bisexual woman who only ever had one relationship with a cis het man but lately it's out of control and I don't even try to connect to other queer people anymore (besides the few I know personally from university or work, but queer spaces... seemingly not for people like me)
also god forbid a gay man wants to go without bringing a boyfriend to ‘prove’ he’s gay like wth
not wanting men at a concert because of their gender is really weird. "music for girls only" isn't a thing and would be discriminatory.
“Fans of her who are in the same group (lesbians) don’t want her identity to be watered down or commodified to be more palatable.” - are we saying that if Chappell was bisexual that is a more palatable or watered down identity? because trust, biphobia is not any less rampant and bisexuality is not more accepted that any other queer identity. It’s not easier to be bi and your love for women is not lesser if you’re bi.
I mean, as a bi woman I definitely understand what you’re saying and that’s not necessarily what I meant? Idk I’m trying to explain it from the perspective of lesbians who feel that bi people are co-opting their “thing”
@@kaylasays i’m sorry, I did not mean to imply you - kayla - believe that. I meant “we” as in the collective group you were speaking about. I just meant to say that if anyone feels that way they’re wrong, imo.
As a bi person, I do think our existence can be “easier” or at least more palatable bc we can end up with men. And can be assumed as straight. But I truly don’t think that means biphobia isn’t a problem or that we don’t face issues. Idk I guess I’m conflicted,
as a bi woman, our sexualities are generally much more palatable to the general public than lesbian ones. especially because so many bi women end up in straight passing relationships. there is ABSOLUTELY privilege in appearing straight passing. many lesbians feel like they can’t even hold hands with their partner out in public or post a photo of them kissing online. whereas if you’re in a straight passing relationship with a cis man, no one will care.
also, many lesbians don’t like bi women because they feel like they’re just experiments or hypotheticals to bi women. as someone who has dated men and women, it’s much harder to publicly date women than it is to publicly date men.
@@Talia778 I can’t speak to your experience, but socially we get shit no matter what. If we’re with women we get shit from the cishet bigots, if we’re with men we get shit from our own community - as clearly shown in this video. The first is certainly more threatening, but the latter feels even worse because not even our safe spaces are truly safe from biphobia.
Got to see her on the GUTS tour and it was so fun
What tour? I see GUTS and immediately go “do do do DO YOU HAVE IT?”
thank you for video !! seeing the arguments abt chapell roan feels like people have stopped thinking
You missed my (least) favourite new Chappell Roan discourse: Casual is about a man. Chappell Roan has written songs about men before like My Kink is Karma but she explicitly said about this song that it was a man in the music video because "it was only ever men who made her feel that way" so presumably, the same applies to Casual, which features a woman in the music video. It comes a lot from the idea that only men can be toxic, all men are toxic, and women are a paragon of morality or some shit and it really bothers me to see it, especially because they're wrong about Casual being about about a man.
Hozier has had a great year so far! it would be awesome to see a video about him if you have enough information to make a video about him.
i live in louisville ky and was going to get tickets to louisville pride June 15th ($10 gen admission to the festival) but they sold out so fast bc chappel is performing and SO many ppl, even out of state, SWARMED to get $10 “chappel roan tickets”.
it’s crazy bc every other year i’ve been, i either bought tickets day of or didn’t even need a ticket to enter. seniors also used to get free entry and it’s so sad to see so many old gays who were unaware of how insane it would be unable to even attend pride 😭
not mad at chappel for it ofc or even the festival planners bc no one knew she would have blown up so much before. but it is very sad so many ky gays can’t even go to their own pride bc so many ppl just saw it as a cheap chappel roan concert.
me too, I live in lousiville and it is sad that so many of my queer friends can't go. I luckily bought 2 tickets for me and my trans sister because we are both apart of the community but it is sad, I don't want to gatekeep pride but it makes me upset people are coming just to see her for $10 when the local community can't attend. and the reselling for 10x plus the price makes me really mad
People made the same argument about performing in states with anti-LGBTQ+ legislatures when Beyonce was touring Renaissance. And similar arguements were made even before that when the NBA moved its 2017 All-Star Weekend out of Charlotte, NC because of its bathroom bill yet had franchises in other anti-LGBTQ+ legislature states. Not only do I find those arguments to be "what about"-isms, but you also hit the nail on the head: there are LBTQ+ people in those areas who are fans of the music, sports, etc. and having events in those areas are more in support of those fans than they are in support of the anti-LGBTQ+ laws in those places
personally, i relate to her songs because i'm aroace, yes its a little backwards but no matter how many men i date or have "a crush on" i'll never feel connection. and i was bewildered when someone said i couldn't like chappel because I wasn't lesbiain...
um what?
i am bisexual and agree that Good Luck, Babe is more of a song about lesbians, but i also like to interpret it in my own way. (i do this with any song if it somewhat relates to an experience i faced even if its not a fully accurate. sometimes you can just relate to part of a song and not the full thing). anyways, me interpreting it a little bit helps me relate to the song more
If I’m not mistaken, I’m pretty sure she came out as a lesbian recently, and was before going as pansexual/bisexual before that, and I think some of her songs are about guys she’s gone out with
ur right!! she also was dating a man while writing most of Midwest Princess :)
Exactly, the album is very bi/pan because that is what she identified as when she made it. She identifies as lesbian now, but that doesn't negate that some of her songs are about men... plus anyone is allowed to love any music, gatekeeping is pathetic.
Yeah, without getting specific on any identity labels, broadly the story of the album is very much "used to date men. that sucked. now dating women. better."