40K LORE - THE INQUISITION ARE MORONS. BUT WHY? A RANT.
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Wolf Lord Rho's Video - • THE INQUISITION GOES T...
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I think the idea of 'there are no good options' is very interesting. No matter what you do someone gets hurt. So how do you choose the least evil and how do you live with it. That's some depth
The problem with modern 40k lore is that it's gone full grimderp instead of grimdark.
The mechanisms of the Imperium were rationalised and internally consistent within the confines of the setting.
As time passes 40k will become akin to Marvel. All media and entertainment is destined to become the same amorphous grey slop in this world of ours.
I've just stopped engaging with any lore made after the gathering storm.
I just take the approach I've always done with Star Wars, and later with 40k: If it's stupid, I just ignore it.
I find I'm much happier that way, but it's a darn shame Disney never got around to doing anything with Star Wars other than that rather spiffing Mandalorian show.
You are so right North in regards to the horrendous writing at large, The Dawn of Fire series sickens me as a hobbyist and that comes from a pure 30k Ultramarine fanboy...
I am sick of the "Noble" and "Grey Area" stories, we need to have more cruelty more in depth character development.
In regards to the Blood Angels stuff I have to disagree with you, I want them as their Primarch, however the main "Chapter" is the true and honourbound Sons of Sanguinius.
Yet they should have the same two dark curses as the other chapters, the grim beast within clawing its way out in every strife the Angels take. Stength of both Will and Faith should have its day for every brother of the Blood, however I do agree that Games Workshop is fucking sugar coating the Space Marines of every legion/chapter with with chocolate and roses rather than the true and unique Lore that made them great to begin with. All of it needs more grim dark teeth.
The Adeptus Astartes are not created from the same gene-seed nor do they EVER share training nor ideals, they are a brotherhood in the 40k setting and not all of them are fancy and pretty. No one in Warhammer are the good guys, everyone is an arse for the sake of the faction or character at large.
As an Eldar player as well, I am sick of the whole idea of which we are back-stage lore-candy...
You don't see ANY bloody narrative of which the Eldar is front figures anymore, we are narrative drivers and nothing else...
I haven't read any new lore since Ventris and Godblight novels, I am so done with this dumb down silliness rather than the serious and cruel setting I felt in love with many years ago.
All in all, cheers for another good rant.
We need more voices out there to speak up about this growing concern within the setting, too many soft cocks have the reigns of which the setting bleeds because they can't handle writing a offensive fictional setting without getting the censor stick over their heads.
Completely agree. The mostly older lore bits push me to do more conversions and inq28 things. Not only that, but the older art evokes not only heroism, but also antiheroic characters. Inquisitors typify this trope in the setting. They are the setting's Batman or Geralt of Rivia in basic human form. Like those characters, Inquisitors are people granted extraordinary power. They often have to navigate the moral intricacies of using that power too. Inquisitors have the ability to do bad, but like any good antihero, they try to do their best not to. Even if they might succumb occasionally. Needless to say I don't read anything involving Guilliman because he's the new Superman of the setting. At lease Superman has kryptonite.
On a side note, if you want a decent Inquisitor series that is relatively newish, I recommend the Horusian wars series, starting with Divination. It's a nice cast and at the very least Inquisitor Covenant isn't an idiot.
Yeah as a Tau player I completely agree. 4th sphere expansion survivers "a horror beyond comparison in the veins of event horizon......no idea what actually happened" something something demons in the Warp something something tau shaped thing saved them the end! I made my entire army with either trophies from previous kills or incase of my crisis suits in various stages of murder. (Victims including white scars,gene stealer cults, drukhari, eldar, chaos cultists and of course orks). To me tau are not the good guys just the most reasonable ones: please join us, here have some cool shit feel like joining now, right listen we are getting a bit impatient you know we are the best option you have for a good life so join already, you know what either join us now or we will kill you to make it easier for others to join us....willingly. sorry for this wall of text but feels good getting it out of my system.
gotta agree 500% with you on 40k losing it's grimdark. It's the grimdark and subtext that got me into 40k, cursed founding chapters I connected with. Trying to contribute despite people hating your existence was something I latched onto, and going through the old lore it's not just interesting but can have good subtext that makes the stuff even more interesting. I can barely play my black dragons now because the dragon claw curse no longer carries any of it's weight with Primaris marines. What's the point of having all the secrecy if you can just call up Guillimon and have Cawl fart out 1000 more bigger marines. It's aggravating to have years of investment in story and lore just lose it's value overnight now that the main challenge your faction has just get undone in a Deus ex machina. The new models are great but I should be buying them on "damn! they're cool in this story, I wanna play them!" and not "this'll make a neat little proxy". Thank God for ebay and the older editions, Daemon Hunters 3rd edition codex slaps harder than a power fist
I agree 100%. I've been a fan of the Inquisition since I read the Ravenor trilogy way back (which I read before the Eisenhorn trilogy, which was kinda dumb) my favorite series in Black Library is the Eisenhorn trilogy, I love how Dan Abnett made such a character driven trilogy, how subtle his fall from grace is. And how far he's truly fallen is up to the reader. Gregor Eisenhorn is one of my favorite characters in the whole setting. HH included. But what really got me into the Inquisition was the P&P RPG Dark Heresy. The Calixis Sector is easily one of the best settings in 40k and the splat book Disciples of Dark Gods has to be my favorite books of lore ever. It inspired me to write a fanfic continuity Secret War which takes place in the Calixis Sector and I'm still writing in since 08 or 09.
The Inquisition has such nuance and layers. Some can be rational pragmatists or frothing at the mouth extremists and everything in between. It's so saddening they've been reduced to such cartoonish foolery.
Might be only me, but it kinda feels like Games Workshop is starting to also go into direction of Horus Heresy with setting. While books show many different point of views and lore is solid (though not necessary what I would call grimdark) we have Primarchs returning, chapters and warbands becoming legions again, Primaris also look more akin to older armour types. As much as I love my Ultramarines and Teh Spiritual Liege, Roboute Guilliman himself, his return fucked balance of power. Abaddon is not a villain built for Primarchs. He's beefed up Chaos Space Marine and him ordering around Daemon Primarchs is a grotesque thing. I always felt like 40k being a shadow of more glorious day was a necessary and much needed part of whole grimdark feeling. The feel of Horus Heresy and 40k seems to be very similliar right now, heck, I would say 40k is even more hopeful despite only one loyal Primarch returning due to Cawl spatting out millions of Space Marines 2.0. right at Abandons regular Chaos Space Marine army face.
I think one of the few "good" or well written Inquisitors is Amberley Vail in the Ciaphas Cain books-which are comedic, but well written and she does seem professional and she knows what she's doing, in recognising Jurgen as a blank and many more things in later books
But since I'm new in the lore and hobby, maybe i'm a bit off with my assessment there.Still fantastic books, tho.
Inquisition is what got me into 40k Eisenhorn is awesome. I think the fan song "Vilified" really sums up the role of inquisitors role. They have to make the impossible decisions they have to live with the consequences of their choices its probably very common for inquisitors to kill themselves from grief. Unfortunately modern 40k just wants them to be mustache twirling morons with egos.
"Orks can't be bartered with."
Kapt'n Bluddflag likes to have a word with ya, ya git!
He just wanted a cool hat
That one short story where the (new) Primaris chapter turns against the Custodes was beyond stupid.
These tank raised soldiers are like “but but, those guys who turned renegade are our brothers!” And didn’t just sit there and go “yes sir,” *hands bolt rifle to custodian* is nonsense.
Why would the orks want to raid unprotected imperial worlds? Orks love to fight, they have a need to fight. If they cant find an enemy, they fight each other. Food, orcs can eat grots. Guns? they can pick up a stick and say, "BANG", and it's a gun.
Funny you should bring up Avenging Son as an example of cartoonish and upbeat aesthetic, when it is one of the more dark books I've read from the 40k franchise, featuring scenes where a World Eater rips a guardsmen in half over his head, a stray plasma battery discharge strikes the surface of a planet and vaporizes hundreds, and countless soldiers are left to die fighting on some backwater planet all in one chapter.
Not only that, but it features one of the more believable grimdark characters that is in fact an inquisitor by the name of Rhostov who pretty much embodies everything you're on about with the 'older' inquisitors lore, but that book only came out post return of guilliman, so what, 3 or 4 years ago at most? I highly recommend giving it a read as opposed to literally judging its cover but what can you do.
edit: the book is Avenging Son, not Dawn of Fire, which is the series
Blood in the Machine is a short story that is a great Flesh Tearers audio drama that kits both Gabriel Seth and the Inquisition.
Congratulations on 10k subs.
Good job Exile.
Dan Abnett is the best BL writer, and a nice bloke too.
Inquisitor was the best game GW have ever made. Nicest models, way more scope for interesting games, flowing narrative across a campaign and you could have a successful tabletop match without firing a single shot.
I am a Warhammer 40,000 fan and I have been since 3rd Edition, I love the setting but I've yet to hear a reason why GW just can't be completely ignored. By all means, purchase their paints and models that you like the look of, but there's nothing stopping people from taking old established bedrock lore, firmly establishing it like what was done with the Dornian Heresy, people designing their own custom units/Armies that make sense around it and don't conflict with established lore, fanfics distributed online under the rule of "This could be propaganda, this could be true, it could be some mad pysker's fever dream" and expanding upon the universe with 'sensible' fanon that it more faithful to the setting and the I.P through horizontal stories and lore-expansion instead of forward narrative progression with a few side plots like Black Library used to do.
GW Constantly retcons things all the time so the idea that there is any sanctity or revelation regarding 'official' canon and lore is a hill to die on that has been struck from orbit
I'm reminded of the Old Black Library Forums that used to have massive spin off fan-serials like "Rise Of The Tau." that attracted a large following, there's already a massive catalogue of homebrew rules and codex's that have been released simplifying or streamlining the game and correcting balance. etc
Just make an online wikia like hub "The 41st millennium" with a bunch of Unofficial go to Codexes that are freely viewable and up to date with fanart galleries and a fanfic section and its all done freely without money exchanged or claims of ownership or infringement of copyright and you're pretty much set.
Seriously if a bunch of bronies in 2010 could do it...
Great ideas that I support but these days the 40k hobby is centered around the hype and purchasing cycle dictated by the company and less about people using the miniatures and books to create their own stories. It’s sad and a reason why I slowly transitioned into doing historical gaming.
Plenty of ork groups negotiate. Rogue trader had some as mercenaries, for example. You just have to hyper fixate on the topic of war, and resources resources war, to keep their attention. They'll often backstab you, but its not as uncommon as you make it out to be
I like your lore discussions like this. Much more interesting than typical youtube 40K lore videos.
15:43 it’s Finn and some space Roman guy and a lady with a bionic eye.
I think the "Inquisition needs reigning in" is a valid point. Inquisitors answer to NO ONE but the Emperor, that amount of power would drive even the most loyal of Imperial Citizens to go power mad and do things narcissistically and for selfish reasons.
I also agree that 40k is losing its Grim Darkness to appeal to wider audiences. The Chibi marines was the death knell for me.
Problem with inquisitors doing things for personal gain, is its weird. What can an inquisitor gain that he doesn't already have?
As an adult, and Emperors Children player and Slaanesh fan, I wish the settings darker side was explored more. GW even started the WH crime and horror series, yet there doesnt seem to be any focused on any Slaaneshi stuff, even though surely, as the most hellraiser of the gods, that stuff would be properly scary and disturbing if explored seriously. The old noise marine art and lore is so interesting in how messed up it is.
I think its a real shame if GW forget that part of what adds 40k its gravitas is that there is really fcuked stuff in it, really eldritch horror in its entities, depth and scale, and that even things like the space marines, bio engineered super humans created to carve humanity a galactic empire, are monsters themselves, living weapons of unnatural strength and speed and brutality.
The imperium is not supposed to be a good guy faction, it is a human one, with callous and cold institutions, grey areas in how it must function due to its scale, but with people of all types of morality living within it, a dysfunctional and decaying empire struggling to survive against a whole range of much greater evils, and that makes the setting much more interesting and realistic than the usual good/evil dichotomy of things like most comic books or other sci fi settings like star wars or star trek.
When I saw GW were making animations on their channel, and that they were like badly animated anime shows, that cartoonified the action so as to remove all real sense of realism, brutality or gore, it did make me wonder if they were pushing away from being a more mature setting. I hope I get a few more years to appreciate the setting before they just sand all the edges off and ruin it completely.
Ah, I loved the Inquisitor game. I remember folks disliking it because they tried to combine an RPG with a skirmish game, but I loved that it opened things up a bit more. The only downside was the size of the minis, but halving measurements was always a thing. Though I did keep coming across folks who couldn't get their head around that, or that there was more that just playing the brimstone and hellfire Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor. I always liked my Rogue Trader in it. Sorry, got all nostalgic there.
I think I have some of the PDFs somewhere too.
Thing about the Inquisition is they are designed to deal with "internal" threats that are within the Imperium borders.
The issue is with the Imperium considering everything that isn't within a warp storm to be their territory the Inquisition is almost like the silly world conquering or often world destroying villains, who's goals ate that, either take over the world in question or simply destroy it.
I've decided to just play 3rd edition again with only 3rd edition models. Better setting and more fun rules.
I find the idea interesting with the Blood Angels of being both the best and the worst, the artist and the murderer, but I am not sure where that sweetspot is. The Flesh Tearers are awesome because they are special, but even among Blood Angels they are very "out there". But there should be a bit more, a pinch of salt amount, of more urges in the Blood Angels, or being extra cruel to keep others away from them.
Im just waiting on the emperor to turn into PC principle XD
Well yeah those are some examples of bad writing but there are quite a few books with inquisitors that are quite good. So after the Eisenhorn series there’s the Ravenor trilogy which is excellent and then there’s the Bequin trilogy. It’s only on book two so far but it’s awesome and left on a huge cliffhanger. Then there’s the Vaults of Terra series, that’s pretty decent. There’s also quite a few books about Inquisitor Covenant, I’m only halfway through Resurrection but it’s fairly exciting so far. The book Kreig theres an inquisitor that plays a pretty cool role in the story. There’s a great scene where he order’s two of the Kreigsmen to remove their masks, the book doesn’t come out and say what he saw but it does allude to what they really are and that was cool! There’s probably others as well but just because there’s a few bad examples doesn’t mean the whole thing is rotten. Concerning the Dawn of Fire books I haven’t read them yet but didn’t Valrak put out a video saying that the Black Templars did some pretty spicy stuff in the Throne of Light book?
Thanks for the content, solid video! I do have to valiantly rush to the defence of alucard from castlevania though. The cartoon was based on an old computer game which, unlike many things these days, had depth and grit to it
19:29 "Give your lore *teeth* !" he says while complaining that Blood Angels have been reduced to Spess Vampires 😄
Also, i used to GM Inquisitor. I remember that coming out, and that being a quarter-century ago gives me Big Sad.
I have to disagree about Orks. Blood Axes and Freebooterz would negotiate. How you initiate a conversation is another matter, and is the kind of rarefied speciality the Ordo Xenos and Imperial Diplomats are for. Also a competent Inquisitor wouldn't send them to defended worlds. They'd send them to Imperial worlds recently conquered by Chaos or other xenos. The Orks get a gud crumpin' either way and the Imperium can use the extra time.
Also I must rant again about the missed opportunity with the return of Guilliman. Guilliman is the saviour figure who always makes the most competent and compassionate decisions... that bite the Imperium in the arse.
Imperium Secundus = contingency to consolidate remnants and preserve the Imperium = loyalists do nothing while traitors run rampant.
Pharos beacon = critical substitute for the Astronomican = alerted Tyranids.
Chapters = manages risk of corruption through compartmentalisation of forces = compartmentalised forces less effective against returned legions.
Codex Astartes = ease of recruitment, training and cross-chapter co-ordination through standardisation = strategic inflexibility through dogmatism.
And finally, reigning in the Inquisition = less infighting and better allocation of resources = aliens, mutants and heretics slip through the gaps.
I would love to see a group of Orks led by a badass umie just because he can beat down any takers
I think the inquisitor book / rules used to be downloadable on the GW website... but hasn't been available for 4 + years... you can pick up a copy on ebay (I think I paid $50 AUD, about a year ago)... alternatively it should be available for download on several fansites
Inquisitor looked like an interesting game but I think the decision to do it in the 54mm scale really hampered it. That meant the Inquisitor models couldn't be used for anything else. You can use your Kill Team in your 40k army. You can use your Warcry warband in your Age of Sigmar army. You couldn't use the Inquisitor miniatures for anything but that game since they were on such a different scale from anything else.
The way the Inquisitors have been done on the 40k rules is odd. The weirdest thing is that the military arms of the various Ordos are not even part of the Ordos anymore under the rules. Deathwatch don't have the Ordo Xenos keyword. Grey Knights don't have the Ordo Malleus keyword. Sisters of Battle don't get the Ordo Hereticus keyword. They have no synergy with the Inquisitors at all. You used to be able to take an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor as an HQ in your Grey Knights army. That's the way I remember it anyway. I got Inquisitor Coteaz to be the HQ for my small, all-metal Grey Knights army. Now his spy network ability doesn't even work with the Grey Knights. It only affects his own retinue which is pretty much worthless. I guess it would affect the Land Raider Prometheus too but who even takes those? They are completely disconnected from the Chambers Militant of their own Ordos. It's weird.
I like the grim dark setting but it's hard to care about the books to much because it never feels like there is enough progress in the story. I know some would say that's the point but why would i care about a grander story when i know it will never end or have any satisfactory conclusion
I have to agree, the Night Lords novels are by far my favorite novels from 40k, but I might be a bit biased. Speaking of which, ADB really needs to get his ass to work on the Decimus book
I may have an unpopular opinion here but If I wanted to read genuinely good sci-fi, I wouldn't read material commissioned by a company for the sole purpose of selling miniatures. There are some great gems like Prospero Burns / A Thousand Sons and the Man of Iron story but for the most part, I find 40k's standard of writing to be pretty goddamn poor. It's all adjectives and rule of cool by authors who are given a script to follow and names/words to drop to drive sales. Majority of them wouldn't have a career outside GW contracts. After 20+ HH novels of the same shit, I got burned out so I'm not coming in here just to be some literary snob.
It started off great and with heart, the old lore is cool and the setting itself is pretty great but the writing quality is to writing as Transformers is to Film.
There is/was genuinely good sci-fi material within 40K however these days it is all old and mostly forgotten about. I would suggest the Ciaphas Cain books by Sandy Mitchell (although the most recent one was the worst), the Eisenhorn trilogy (only Eisenhorn, not Ravenor or Bequin) by Dan Abnett, the Sisters of Battle books by James Swallow and the Rogue Trader trilogy by Andy Hoare. (There probably are others but I can't recall the quality of other franchises such as Gaunt's Ghosts.) (As a sidenote, I avoid HH and other Space Marine books. If a Space Marine is the main character, it's not for me.) (Also avoid the novels by Rachel Harrison, bad writer.) GW has great authors but terrible authors as well. (Look below...)
GW's biggest problem is that the people who created and understood 40K (and Warhammer Fantasy, if that matters) have all left and so the pillars of 40K are now the people who progressed by clinging to the coattails of their superiors and so have no understanding or respect of the background.
Just out of curiosity, if you wanted genuinely good sci-fi where would you go? Dr Who, Star Wars and Star Trek have all been dragged through and perhaps drowned in the mud. What remains?
I'm pretty sure I've seen some people describing that cover in terms that could be considered "grimdark".
The Nights Lord's Omnibus is my favorite
Several streamers and many fans have been saying since the wind down if 8th ef that GW's ultimate plan is to either go mainstream or sell the IP outright. Either choice is going to require sanitizing out of the true grim dark element. My favorite armies, like GSC, are pure grim dark, and I've noticed they barely get any love and are often under supported compared to the more popular factions. So I agree, In the Grim Dark Future there will be little or no grim dark, just the constant quest for corporate profits.
I love the inquisition and I can see your side of the rant.However Inquisitor Crowl I find very interesting. In listening to the stories I could see a character that is followed by guilt and also very isolated, if by choice or circumstances it’s your own view. But there’s a short 30min audio drama which is “chief kiss emoji” and you can see the conflict in him and further on his decline and almost madness in uncovering a truth. What are your thoughts on this chap northern exile?
There is no innocence, only degrees of guilt.
My IG army was actually built as a heros of the imperium army. Squishy weaklings facing insurmountable horrors with only their faith as a shield (heck catachan's don't even get shirts). I much prefer this to the commisar model that most armies are built around. This adds to the do or die mentality of the faction. I think they lost popularity because GW didn't transition them to plastic and there was never a big selection to begin with (which is a hard sell in an army game - like the sisters of battle early on: sure you can play this faction but you can only do small skirmish games).
Well tbf the ork that was being barterd with was a blood axe orks that can be barterd with (to a point ) and have been hired as mercenarys for teef and guns and other such trickets in lore (even if ater the job is done they migth just attack you for the fun of it)
I prefer these lore videos as well as your personal stories to be honest. I really liked your old world lore video and was hoping you'd do more of them
I had the honour of growing up when games like mordheim, battlefleet gothic and inquisitor were released. My god what a golden age. Its sad what remains...
Inquisitors are far too often used for excuses/invented causes for internal and external conflicts of the Imperium.
Xenos or Demons causing trouble? A Inquisitor caused it or is sent with an army to try and fix it!
Need 2 factions of the ostensibly same Empire to fight each other? An Inquisitor said they had to!
Need a bunch of factions scrambling about trying to mutually annihilate each other? A Inquisitor did it!
They are an overused plot device at this point.
There ere times where i wasnt into the game of 40k, but continued to follow the lore, read books etc.
now im neither into the game cause 9th is trash and im not into the lore cause lore is becoming Marvel.
now that i switched to Herey for my Collecting and Modeling hobby....they start to F that up too.
It’s a good day- got paid, for a ‘new to me’ car AND a rant!! Thanks man , I haven’t been able to paint/hobby much and your videos really help me stay connected. Best
Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau of Rogue Trader fame sugests that there always been a certain amount of leeway in how seriously GW take the Inquisition.
you gotta dark wash things to make the highlights pop.
GW is what needs reining in. But it’s the fan base’s responsibility to keep the grimdark in the hobby. The newer varnish over things isn’t even noblebright, which still leaves plenty of opportunity for gray and serious. We’re seeing the Disnification of Warhammer. It’s awful.
I mean, I don't mind some shedding of grimdark, but I do think it should stay grimdark at the core. I am a person who likes aos. I typically make my homebrew chapters and stuff more heroic. I think grimdark is thw core of 40k, but I personally don't mind a bit shedding of grimdark. I also like new lore. So grain of salt.
Fasntastif video, great rant! 👍
Great vid, I appreciate your unique passion on the subjects you choose 👍
It’s great writing in my opinion, the original writers always intended the imperium to be a warning rather than a template or “ideal”.
As far as I’m aware the red thirst was limited to a few isolated events before the death of Sanguinius.
What game is being played in the background? Interesting for an old Dawn of War fella?
Love the take North, whenever you say you love the Inquisition you'll get reminded about x ridiculous scenario they had a hand in. Inquisition need more Eisenhorn wins for sure.
That sounded Cathartic
Question: What is the name of the video game being played in this video?
Why are the Inquisition idiots?
GW is a British company and seem to be influenced by Monty Python...
If you get it then you get it. If you don't then we can not be friends lol