I was lucky to be invited to be a guest on the Behind the Tech podcast with Kevin Scott, Chief Technology Officer at Microsoft and a lifelong piano aficionado. He interviewed me for over and hour about how I got into piano and the intersection of technology and the internet with classical music, plus we bonded over piano recordings we've both obsessed over for decades. Watch the full interview here: th-cam.com/video/YU77XKSgbjk/w-d-xo.html YUNCHAN FANS: I know I know I know I owe you another video about Yunchan's Liszt (plus another one about his Rachmaninoff, for Tonebase YT). I've been juggling lots of priorities lately and am going to try my hardest to give birth to both videos by the end of the month, before the Chopin Podcast starts to heat up. Thank you for being the most patient people in the world!
Not hurry. Take your time, your personal priority first, I can wait and believe you will make your promise from heart. I like your willingness to piano and Yunchan. And how you look now( than 2:08). All the best to you and your family.
Yunchan Lim, has zero ego! He devotes his life to be a messanger for great composers. His sincere attitude & humility won me over. Music is not competition. He is special & has a beautiful soul. Doesn't matter if he's the greatest pianist or not. His playing touches my heart,and many people's hearts, and that's what matters. Those who put him down in comparison to other artists miss the point (or are just jeoulous). That's not what yunchan is about or music is about.
You took my words. Yunchan Lim is the best young artist on the planet. Humble, truly emotional, no overreacting, no jumping around. His Rach3 with Ma. Alsop was the best interpretation of the 3rd ever. Period. The best of Horowitz lives in Yunchan Lim.
I’ve never been drawn into a piano performance like Yunchan Lims Rach 3. It was such a total commitment and powerful expression. Things you not only never heard before, but never imagined you would ever hear. And all happening before your eyes and ears and for your heart and soul.
I really appreciate your analysis videos. Also, please remember that there are people still waiting for your analysis videos on Yunchan Lim's Liszt Transcendental Etudes No. 11 and 12
It's truly a gift to have a fellow piano nerd with the production chops and professional connections that you have - thanks for all you do for this community!
I am very surpised that somebody evaluated Horowitz so high. I did not say he was average pianist, not at all but his personal involments to modify original piano scores and way of playing were too much over-exposed, sometimes even disrespectful to author
Hey Ben you’ve captured the essence of your important contribution to classical music appreciation. That piece on YL’s Rach 3 was a master class on how to express technically and artistically the beauty and originality of this incredible talent. For me personally, that analysis led me to that piece which I’ve probably watched at least 100X; as you said recognizing and appreciating the markers you illustrated and his incredible virtuosity. And beyond that I have a whole new appreciation and world to explore in classical music. Thank you for that and for your truly wonderful work on these videos. Bravo indeed!👏👏👏
Thanks a lot! The two of you thoroughly nailed what music critics do excellently for people who don't have enough classical music knowledge but want to enjoy the music, like me. Keep making nice analyses for general music lovers to expand toward a larger classical music audience.
Thank you for your unselfish attitude making these videos. So glad to hear both of your biography meeting piano and music, then meet each other here. Gratitude for leading me, one who loves classical music without knowing much about it, into the secret garden of notes, melodies and details in them. I enjoy those moments you indicated as a tour guide ☺️ Thank you for carrying me together. And thanks for TH-cam letting me can watch again and again.
Yes, Ben! That's one of the great things about Rachmaninoff's compositions. All of the ones I've ever played have a seemingly endless array of "interpretations" with regard to small phrases as well as the integration of the larger lines into a "whole" with proportion and harmony, in the sense of "harmony" being a complementarity.
My favorite Horowitz performance of the Scriabin Etude 8/12 is the Moscow performance. I think the time dilation he creates at one moment with the left hand octaves is mesmerizing.
Excellent video! And challenge accepted. I very much enjoy listening to different interpretations the way you described, so perhaps I will hop on the bandwagon of making video breakdowns to help build that ecosystem. 😊
I remember commenting on your video about Yunchan Lim's Rachmaninoff saying that it was really nice to have a proper analysis of this performance, especially in the midst of the cult-like insanity and mindless fanatics that had took over the entire Internet (I'm barely exaggerating). Obviously, the only thing that ultimately matters (and should always matter) is the music itself. Any kind of analysis or discussion should only encourage us to listen more, and to think critically (something which is terribly lacking nowadays). Generally, I think your videos achieve that goal quite successfully. But I also wish more people would do it. I'm pretty sure you've heard of David Hurwitz, whose channel was an absolute blessing for the classical music community. I hope it will motivate more creators to embark on this kind of content.
You can “let the music speak for itself” yet still “analyse”, so long as the analysis is not technical, theoretical, or over-analysed. I think this is what makes Ben’s “analysis” videos great (“analysis” is even too strong of a word. I liked the other word, “commentary” that he used here).
Thank you for these wonderful videos. Horowitz had a unique ability to thrill an audience. His playing inspired many to appreciate piano, myself included. As a Horowitz groupie starting in 1967, I rarely missed a NY performance. Horowitz was a magician at the keyboard, literally. He understood the acoustics of each hall and what the audience heard. They say that a magician's hand is quicker than the eye. How did he play bars 46 & 47 of Scriabin Op 8 No 12 faster than humanly possible? Spoiler alert: Watch the 1968 performance in slow motion. As he accelerates to bar 46, a few LH chords are sacrificed. None of us in the audience cared - it was the most thrilling performance of our lives.
@@dnack3398 yes! I remember discovering Horowitz’s cheat at that moment, and it was a revelation to me that it didn’t matter. Textual fidelity can often be a hindrance to the possibilities of musical expression.
@@benlawdy LOL, I didn't want to use the word "cheat". It's like noticing a small crack in the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, who cares. Horowitz is in good company in taking liberties with the score to achieve his interpretation. What's your opinion on past generations of pianists taking liberties with rubato, or sacrificing legato to achieve a sparkling sound? Thanks again for your insightful videos, it's obvious that a lot of work goes into them.
@@dnack3398 oh “cheat” is a term of art for pianists, not a pejorative. And my opinion of the older pianists’ very personal/organic rubato and sparkly sound sometimes at the expense of legato (like Hofmann) is that I love it and wish more pianists played that way!
Great interview. I was especially moved that I'm not the only one who has such reverential feelings for that particular Horowitz performance of Scriabin's op 8 no 12 etude. Hearing that for the first time was like getting struck by a bolt of lightning, and changed how I felt about the piano forever.
There's a book by Robert Kapilow called "What Makes it Great?" in which he answers that question for an audience that loves classical music, but maybe doesn't have a very deep background in theory and composition. He doesn't dumb it down and provides some theory when it's necessary, but he makes it accessible. I think your channel would be great for that. Maybe a video series on piano works that you love could be in the offing?
I know he has a radio series too, but I've never checked it out. In general this is the thing I want to do, and I think I'm always doing something similar in my vids - but usually I have some project or other goal that I'm trying to realize at the same time. So, it would be nice like you say to just have an independent series where I do this with music I like just for the fun of it.
Horowitz owned Scriabin's etudes and sonatas...his ability to bring out the most incredible details was phenomenal...still is! btw, Horowitz actually met the composer who gave him some great advice, that Horowitz took to heart!
here ya go soundcloud.com/ben-laude-987711455/scriabin-etude-in-d-sharp-minor-op-8-no-12
8 วันที่ผ่านมา +1
Part of developing interpretation is reading the music. And "reading" without analysis produces performances that sound like ABBA singing English and not knowing the language. At least to the sensitive, trained ear, like your Julliard teacher. I'm currently working on an AI-driven piano reader that will answer questions about the music and produce and overview of common analysis levels, starting with the Joplin Rags, which are played horribly, as if, instead of imitating Horowitz, imitate a player piano. And the man's favorite musical form was opera!
I feel like I remember you saying somewhere that you were going to make a rach 3 comparison video between yunchan lims cliburn and Boston performance. Is that ever coming out?
Cyprien Katsaris played horrible Rach concerto no 3 in Queen Elisabeth competition with thin colorless dry cold piano sound! Katsaris won 9th prize! Katsaris was Lucky to be in the finals! Katsaris was out first round weak Tchaikovsky competition in 1970! Dimitri Bashkirov her teacher Anastasia Virsaladze teach saying to Bashkirov the most important lesson is the love of beautiful colorful piano sound! This was already in 1930s! Really Shocking! All the modern players are cold colorless dry thin piano sound players like Kissin Zimerman Pletnev Hamelin Yuja Wang and latest hype student Yunchan Lim! All the beautiful colorful piano sound players are gone dead like Wilhelm Kempff Emil Gilels Radu Lupu Artur Rubinstein Vladimir Ashkenazy Grigory Sokolov!!
I shared your Yunchan Lim Rach 3 fun analysis many times. Will you look sometime at Yuja Wang performing all three Rach piano concertos and the Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini in one great go?
@@ds61821 thanks for sharing it! I spent a lot of time on Yuja and rach, although related to a different topic. Maybe you caught this one: th-cam.com/video/w0Tws92vCDc/w-d-xo.html
@@ds61821 Right. Well, I was an advisor on this video, which you probably saw! th-cam.com/video/SuA9l77ODbs/w-d-xo.html I’m a bit fatigued by all the rach content I’ve done, so I probably won’t have the chance to break down those specific performances. But there will be more yuja and more rach in my future, I’m sure of it!
@@michaelkennis6097 where do you see Josh and Kevin spelling it wrong? I use the phonetic spelling in my YT handle (@benlawdy) because my name is not pronounced the way it looks.
@@benlawdy oh - it's supposed to describe a piece that she hated playing (I think because it is not at all among the best polonaises, and because she was called upon to play it so often, as it is so popular). What is your favourite one? mine is the f sharp minor one - and the Horowitz video on yt is of course incredible in every way. btw it was interesting to learn of your and the other guy's enthusiasm for that Scriabin piece. to be honest I've never liked his etudes. And whilst his early stuff is very 'a la Chopin', I still prefer it. But he's never been my favourite..
@@militaryandemergencyservic3286 oh - yeah op 22 is sort of fluffy but I still love it. Over the years I’ve gravitated towards the polonaise fantaisie, which might be his greatest piece on a number of levels. But I grew up loving all of them actually; I’m fond of both op 26 actually. The F# minor was probably my favorite for a while too, and as much as it was once overplayed, the heroic is so ingenious and the section after the LH octaves and before the recap is still one of my favorite passages in all of Chopin.
@@benlawdy interesting. I never got into that one... will maybe try it again, at same time as Lim's Rach 3. By the way, I did a few pastiches of some of Chopin's genres. My best is the 'scherzo number 1' - but they are all pretty worthless. still - do you compose, Ben? here is that playlist of mine - th-cam.com/play/PLYUhuuvIrJm0dcmhr8KtklL50fUpxuzKB.html and by the way i know exactly which bit you mean on the heroic - it used to make me cry, baby that I was. I found it the most difficult part to play, though...
Yes, except that Horowitz with Ormandy is his weakest performance of the piece. There are other prformances by him that are greter, like with Barbirrolli.
@@petervonberg2711 I agree with that. I loved it in college, but it’s a bit too indulgent and even Horowitz recognized as much. Garrick Ohlsson told me he was in the hall for it - in the balcony, cringing. But I still love it, even if it’s for all the wrong reasons.
alexei Sultanov won the cliburn - he is one of the best pianists i have heard. i will now go and see if this performance by Lim really is as good as Horowitz's '78 one. I do doubt that...
It’s starts off a little tame but make sure you stick with it all the way through! And by the way, many Horowitz fans I know don’t cite the 77-78 rach 3s as even Horowitz’s best, in fact many think it’s his worst (he recorded it with Reiner, Coates, plus performances in NY and LA from the 40s), and Horowitz himself didn’t like how he played.
@@davidemach1613 yes because they weren’t going to award 1st prize (they didn’t in 1990 either, nor did Tchaikovsky competition in 1994 when Lugansky got the silver… strange times)
@@benlawdy yes - Ben - sultanov never did the 3rd concerto. By the way, max harrison has a great book on Rach - in which he says how sadly similar the endings of 3 and 2 are. i know that the horowitz 78 is rubbish compared to his earlier ones. old horowitz is always worse than young horowitz, as everyone knows (exception - the live on yt schubert d899 number 3 imo). yes - i'm trying to work my way through the Lim and find it really boring. will try another day, by the way the cadenza is quite flat. i recommend freddy kempf's ossia cadenza for the huge bass. thanks for a good vid, though. why dont you want to do t. poon? she is spectacular imo (and went to your school)
I'm sure he didn't mean to use the word ecosystem towards the end at 9.50. in the context of music An ecosystem is a geographic area where plants, animals and other organisms, as well as weather and landscape, work together to form a bubble of life. Ecosystems contain biotic or living parts, as well as abiotic factors, or nonliving parts. Biotic factors include plants, animals and other organisms. 😏
Kevin, Lim is a fabulous pianist, but please, get a grippy-poo. You switched allegiance from Horowitz/Ormandy to this clever and all-too-self-aware performance? There's still time to return, my friend, to Horowitz's unmatched authenticity and a relationship to the music that yields a revelation a second. I mean, you two guys blab on about musical meaning but then seem comfortable saying nonsense like, by analogy: "Yeah, Rembrandt's okay, but Picasso paints circles around him." When Horowitz plays the Third (I exclude the Mehta because of Horowitz's age), Rachmaninoff turns the pages. Lim? Wonderful technique. The beginning of musical ideas. Let's see if experience deepens him, increases what he has to say at the keyboard and what musical meanings he liberates. The Scriabin? I'm with you all the way.
If I’m reading you correctly, you’re saying Yunchan is like Picasso? Not even Kevin or I have gone that far! 😉 As for Horowitz/Ormandy, that’s a controversial performance and even by Horowitz’s own admission he thought he played like a pig. I love it for what it is and spent a solid part of college devoted to it but it’s also dripping with excess that undercuts the wholeness of the work. Or… maybe you hear it differently! In any case, there are different ways to listen to music and I’m just as interested in Kevin’s lifetime of listening as I am yours. And we can all agree that Yunchan is someone to keep listening to in the future.
I can't believe you said Lim is only wonderful technique. I doubt you've heard him LIVE. Heck I doubt whether you can even play the piano. 🤣 Nevertheless, hopefully you get to hear him LIVE someday.
@@dionysus4778 Nice try, but Manhattan School of Music and years with Mary Klemperer (and presence at a significant number of Horowitz NYC performances). Lim's good; so are a million other pianists. I'm looking for three dimensions, not two.
@@benlawdy Sorry, I should have reined in the imagery, but I felt I had your permission with all that weeping conductor stuff. I mean only that Lim delivers a more than competent and applause-worthy performance, but so do any number of other contemporary pianists; and from none of them do I get what I'm looking for in the 3rd: something revelatory, utterly personal and subjective, something that exposes the emotional content of the music. The Lim doesn't do that for me. Also, as you may sense, I have a closed mind on the subject and un-shifting loyalties. But I'm 81, and raised in NYC by a musical family whose forebears came from the same 'neighborhood' as Rachmaninoff and Horowitz, so I give myself lots of latitude. ;)
@@genemiller9198 you do your thing Gene! Glad you shared your perspective and I don’t mind the colorful language at all. And I know what you’re talking about in Yunchan’s performance. Despite my love for Horowitz, I also have a gouldian side to me that enjoys an element of detached manipulation in interpretation - yunchan has a little of that. You can really hear it in his Chopin etudes too. But I think his Liszt shows a personality and depth of feeling that will grow over time, while keeping that arsenal of technical design-tools in his fingers. He does things with texture and sound that I think are in the neighborhood of revelation, even if they’re not everyone’s cup of tea.
Yunchan is super talented. He has phenomenal technical abilities and is quite musical for a young man, but...I think he's being over-hyped. They were calling it the greatest performance of the Liszt TEs, the greatest Rach 3rd...lets not get ahead of ourselves. I think he has tremendous potential, but lets not anoint him the second coming of Vlad Horowitz...yet.
I agree with all that! And, as I like to remind people, I only *asked the question* "Is Yunchan's Rach 3 the best?..." I never actually answered it ;) And it's always good to appeal to Yunchan's own humility on the topic - he's not happy with his Cliburn performances, and is only determined to get better. I'm glad he has that attitude, and it's another thing that makes me want to follow him. His Cliburn performances definitely stand out among recent international competition performances, but he still plays with limitations (partly because it was a competition) and I believe he has a lot more to say in the future.
@@Daniel_Ilyich To me, the issue isn't really whether he's overhyped or not. I think we will all agree that a performance of classical music gathering millions of enthusiastic people is a totally positive thing. The problem is comparative, when the hype happens at the expense of other equally gifted musicians. So many listeners lack the critical mind and intellectual curiosity (and sometimes even the humility) to simply acknowledge the fact that there can be more than one great recording of any given piece. Listening to classical music is NOT a zero-sum game. We should always be listening and never take anything for granted.
I'm sure Kevin Scott, whoever he is, has nice enthusiasm, and something to offer, but someone needs to point out to him that for a grown man to be taken seriously, he needs to stop modifying almost every word and phrase with "LIKE"
@@sunareekaewnat8967 I agree! But also H and A weren’t 18 playing in a competition finals. What’s cool is how much he’s already assimilating from those past great artists and how much potential he has to grow. And also that performance was special for non-musical reasons (as you know, being there). I understand it there was something kind of magical in the air, the way the orchestra and Alsop responded to him, his body language in certain parts, and just the whole context of it being the finals, and the sort of unanimous feeling in the hall as it unfolded that this kid was giving the winning performance. But, you tell me if you felt that being in the audience!
which concert was that? I've been to his numerous concerts and recitals, and I realize he plays differently in each performance. The 2 artists you mentioned, I don't even want to go there since I do respect them for their contribution to music. Lim has truly opened my eyes and ears to the music, opening up the whole new world for me. I'm sure there are many people like me who are influenced by Lim like this, esp those who were never into classical music.
Can't be compared having in mind their time and their age and Mr Lim's age (18) when he won the Cliburn. Btw, Yunchan's Mazeppa during the very same competition was out of this world. He's definitely the best young artist on the planet.
@@benlawdywhen I start studying at Zagreb music academy back in the 90s, running to Musikverein in Vienna over the weekends I was convinced that women would NEVER be a good conductor. Until Marin Alsop appeared. That night stays marked as the greatest interpretation of Rach3 ever.
@@adamblock5141 fair and Yunchan himself would probably agree with you. I think aspects of the performance are up there with historic performances, and I’ve pointed all of them out, but for example his first movement - although structurally coherent - could use more definition in the first theme and I’ve never quite followed his interpretation of the second theme. Two pretty important moments in the piece! His 2023 performances had some interesting developments in the 2nd movement, and his 3rd movement has always been pretty thrilling. He might not ever get a titanic sound like some pianists we love, and makes up for it with laser precision that can sound cold. But the performance caught everyone’s attention the moment it happened - before he had the chance to be overrated - so I think the interest in his performance and future development is warranted.
@@benlawdy Ben, can you point out what the developments were in 2023? Unfortunately I haven’t had the chance to hear any of his 2023 performances. Would love to hear your insights. (Will this be included in your upcoming videos?) Also, if you haven’t already, if you can somehow come across his Korean TV interview (May 2024) about why he stopped playing Rach 3, you’d find it interesting. Btw love your diplomatic and thoughtful responses to some of the “cold” comments here lol
@@benlawdy Huge thank you to you, Ben. And please remember to get some rest when you can! 🙂 Appreciate all the hard work you put into all these videos.
I was lucky to be invited to be a guest on the Behind the Tech podcast with Kevin Scott, Chief Technology Officer at Microsoft and a lifelong piano aficionado. He interviewed me for over and hour about how I got into piano and the intersection of technology and the internet with classical music, plus we bonded over piano recordings we've both obsessed over for decades. Watch the full interview here: th-cam.com/video/YU77XKSgbjk/w-d-xo.html
YUNCHAN FANS: I know I know I know I owe you another video about Yunchan's Liszt (plus another one about his Rachmaninoff, for Tonebase YT). I've been juggling lots of priorities lately and am going to try my hardest to give birth to both videos by the end of the month, before the Chopin Podcast starts to heat up. Thank you for being the most patient people in the world!
Love your videos! I'm your fan. 👍
Thank you so much.
Not hurry. Take your time, your personal priority first, I can wait and believe you will make your promise from heart.
I like your willingness to piano and Yunchan. And how you look now( than 2:08). All the best to you and your family.
Ben, thank you so much
I'm your big fan. Thank you so much.~~
Yunchan Lim, has zero ego! He devotes his life to be a messanger for great composers. His sincere attitude & humility won me over. Music is not competition. He is special & has a beautiful soul. Doesn't matter if he's the greatest pianist or not. His playing touches my heart,and many people's hearts, and that's what matters. Those who put him down in comparison to other artists miss the point (or are just jeoulous). That's not what yunchan is about or music is about.
You took my words. Yunchan Lim is the best young artist on the planet. Humble, truly emotional, no overreacting, no jumping around.
His Rach3 with Ma. Alsop was the best interpretation of the 3rd ever. Period. The best of Horowitz lives in Yunchan Lim.
I’ve never been drawn into a piano performance like Yunchan Lims Rach 3. It was such a total commitment and powerful expression. Things you not only never heard before, but never imagined you would ever hear. And all happening before your eyes and ears and for your heart and soul.
I really appreciate your analysis videos. Also, please remember that there are people still waiting for your analysis videos on Yunchan Lim's Liszt Transcendental Etudes No. 11 and 12
It's truly a gift to have a fellow piano nerd with the production chops and professional connections that you have - thanks for all you do for this community!
I am very surpised that somebody evaluated Horowitz so high.
I did not say he was average pianist, not at all
but his personal involments to modify original piano scores and way of playing were too much over-exposed, sometimes even disrespectful to author
Hey Ben you’ve captured the essence of your important contribution to classical music appreciation. That piece on YL’s Rach 3 was a master class on how to express technically and artistically the beauty and originality of this incredible talent. For me personally, that analysis led me to that piece which I’ve probably watched at least 100X; as you said recognizing and appreciating the markers you illustrated and his incredible virtuosity. And beyond that I have a whole new appreciation and world to explore in classical music. Thank you for that and for your truly wonderful work on these videos. Bravo indeed!👏👏👏
Thanks a lot! The two of you thoroughly nailed what music critics do excellently for people who don't have enough classical music knowledge but want to enjoy the music, like me. Keep making nice analyses for general music lovers to expand toward a larger classical music audience.
yeah, I do appreciate your analysis on yunchan lim's performance!!! thx so much
Ben also offered some wonderful analyses of Yunchan's phenomenal Transcendental Études by Liszt.
Thank you for your unselfish attitude making these videos. So glad to hear both of your biography meeting piano and music, then meet each other here. Gratitude for leading me, one who loves classical music without knowing much about it, into the secret garden of notes, melodies and details in them. I enjoy those moments you indicated as a tour guide ☺️ Thank you for carrying me together. And thanks for TH-cam letting me can watch again and again.
Like this video! Two great analysts nerding over something I also love. ❤
Ben is the GOAT of music videos
This is awesome! Ben, I hope your channel grows and grows.
Ben,
1. t-shirt is great.
2. We need more of your videos 🙏🙏🙏
3. Yunchan Lim is the best young artist on the planet. Period.
I did it, I finally saw younger Ben Laude
Thank you for a wonderful interview. 😊
Fun videos. Thank you!
Thank you! I really enjoy all your videos.
Yes, Ben! That's one of the great things about Rachmaninoff's compositions. All of the ones I've ever played have a seemingly endless array of "interpretations" with regard to small phrases as well as the integration of the larger lines into a "whole" with proportion and harmony, in the sense of "harmony" being a complementarity.
I never thought this day would come! lol
謝謝！
(First time. Just learned how to do it.) Ben, keep going!
Thank you!
My favorite Horowitz performance of the Scriabin Etude 8/12 is the Moscow performance. I think the time dilation he creates at one moment with the left hand octaves is mesmerizing.
@@Daniel_Ilyich yes I agree, he starts that one pianissimo too and it goes much better than his London performance when he was in bad health
Excellent video! And challenge accepted. I very much enjoy listening to different interpretations the way you described, so perhaps I will hop on the bandwagon of making video breakdowns to help build that ecosystem. 😊
I remember commenting on your video about Yunchan Lim's Rachmaninoff saying that it was really nice to have a proper analysis of this performance, especially in the midst of the cult-like insanity and mindless fanatics that had took over the entire Internet (I'm barely exaggerating).
Obviously, the only thing that ultimately matters (and should always matter) is the music itself. Any kind of analysis or discussion should only encourage us to listen more, and to think critically (something which is terribly lacking nowadays).
Generally, I think your videos achieve that goal quite successfully. But I also wish more people would do it.
I'm pretty sure you've heard of David Hurwitz, whose channel was an absolute blessing for the classical music community. I hope it will motivate more creators to embark on this kind of content.
You can “let the music speak for itself” yet still “analyse”, so long as the analysis is not technical, theoretical, or over-analysed. I think this is what makes Ben’s “analysis” videos great (“analysis” is even too strong of a word. I liked the other word, “commentary” that he used here).
Thank you for these wonderful videos.
Horowitz had a unique ability to thrill an audience. His playing inspired many to appreciate piano, myself included. As a Horowitz groupie starting in 1967, I rarely missed a NY performance.
Horowitz was a magician at the keyboard, literally. He understood the acoustics of each hall and what the audience heard. They say that a magician's hand is quicker than the eye. How did he play bars 46 & 47 of Scriabin Op 8 No 12 faster than humanly possible?
Spoiler alert: Watch the 1968 performance in slow motion. As he accelerates to bar 46, a few LH chords are sacrificed. None of us in the audience cared - it was the most thrilling performance of our lives.
@@dnack3398 yes! I remember discovering Horowitz’s cheat at that moment, and it was a revelation to me that it didn’t matter. Textual fidelity can often be a hindrance to the possibilities of musical expression.
@@benlawdy LOL, I didn't want to use the word "cheat". It's like noticing a small crack in the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, who cares. Horowitz is in good company in taking liberties with the score to achieve his interpretation. What's your opinion on past generations of pianists taking liberties with rubato, or sacrificing legato to achieve a sparkling sound?
Thanks again for your insightful videos, it's obvious that a lot of work goes into them.
@@dnack3398 oh “cheat” is a term of art for pianists, not a pejorative. And my opinion of the older pianists’ very personal/organic rubato and sparkly sound sometimes at the expense of legato (like Hofmann) is that I love it and wish more pianists played that way!
Great interview. I was especially moved that I'm not the only one who has such reverential feelings for that particular Horowitz performance of Scriabin's op 8 no 12 etude. Hearing that for the first time was like getting struck by a bolt of lightning, and changed how I felt about the piano forever.
There's a book by Robert Kapilow called "What Makes it Great?" in which he answers that question for an audience that loves classical music, but maybe doesn't have a very deep background in theory and composition. He doesn't dumb it down and provides some theory when it's necessary, but he makes it accessible. I think your channel would be great for that. Maybe a video series on piano works that you love could be in the offing?
I know he has a radio series too, but I've never checked it out. In general this is the thing I want to do, and I think I'm always doing something similar in my vids - but usually I have some project or other goal that I'm trying to realize at the same time. So, it would be nice like you say to just have an independent series where I do this with music I like just for the fun of it.
This performance is the reason I learned that piece too, even if at the time I wasn't at that level yet😂
Horowitz owned Scriabin's etudes and sonatas...his ability to bring out the most incredible details was phenomenal...still is! btw, Horowitz actually met the composer who gave him some great advice, that Horowitz took to heart!
I definitely prefer the forte intro to the Scriabin, I feel it fits the overall emotion of the piece better.
It would be interesting to hear an analysis of the alternate version of Scriabin's op.8 no.12
It's illegal to not post your full Scriabin op 8 no 12 recording.
When are you going to do that, Ben?
here ya go soundcloud.com/ben-laude-987711455/scriabin-etude-in-d-sharp-minor-op-8-no-12
Part of developing interpretation is reading the music. And "reading" without analysis produces performances that sound like ABBA singing English and not knowing the language. At least to the sensitive, trained ear, like your Julliard teacher. I'm currently working on an AI-driven piano reader that will answer questions about the music and produce and overview of common analysis levels, starting with the Joplin Rags, which are played horribly, as if, instead of imitating Horowitz, imitate a player piano. And the man's favorite musical form was opera!
I feel like I remember you saying somewhere that you were going to make a rach 3 comparison video between yunchan lims cliburn and Boston performance. Is that ever coming out?
@@Michachel yes - see my pinned comment
@@benlawdy sorry I missed that 😭 take your time im loving the content
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It might be worth listening to Cyprien Katsaris playing Rach 3. I also thought that Horowitz's was the best till I chanced upon it.
Cyprien Katsaris played horrible Rach concerto no 3 in Queen Elisabeth competition with thin colorless dry cold piano sound! Katsaris won 9th prize! Katsaris was Lucky to be in the finals! Katsaris was out first round weak Tchaikovsky competition in 1970! Dimitri Bashkirov her teacher Anastasia Virsaladze teach saying to Bashkirov the most important lesson is the love of beautiful colorful piano sound! This was already in 1930s! Really Shocking! All the modern players are cold colorless dry thin piano sound players like Kissin Zimerman Pletnev Hamelin Yuja Wang and latest hype student Yunchan Lim! All the beautiful colorful piano sound players are gone dead like Wilhelm Kempff Emil Gilels Radu Lupu Artur Rubinstein Vladimir Ashkenazy Grigory Sokolov!!
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I shared your Yunchan Lim Rach 3 fun analysis many times. Will you look sometime at Yuja Wang performing all three Rach piano concertos and the Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini in one great go?
@@ds61821 thanks for sharing it! I spent a lot of time on Yuja and rach, although related to a different topic. Maybe you caught this one: th-cam.com/video/w0Tws92vCDc/w-d-xo.html
@@benlawdy I was thinking more of her doing a tour performing all 4 pieces in one concert. But yes I did catch the one you posted!
@@ds61821 Right. Well, I was an advisor on this video, which you probably saw! th-cam.com/video/SuA9l77ODbs/w-d-xo.html
I’m a bit fatigued by all the rach content I’ve done, so I probably won’t have the chance to break down those specific performances. But there will be more yuja and more rach in my future, I’m sure of it!
@@benlawdy There you go! That's what I was looking for. Be well, Ben. You were a highlight on Tonebase channel for me.
Ben, did you change the spelling of your last name, or has Josh & Kevin gotten it wrong??
@@michaelkennis6097 where do you see Josh and Kevin spelling it wrong? I use the phonetic spelling in my YT handle (@benlawdy) because my name is not pronounced the way it looks.
hi Ben - did you read my comment about Argerich and the 'Great Grey Mayonnaise' op. 22? 9according to Peter Feutchwanger)
yes but I don't know what that means!
@@benlawdy oh - it's supposed to describe a piece that she hated playing (I think because it is not at all among the best polonaises, and because she was called upon to play it so often, as it is so popular). What is your favourite one? mine is the f sharp minor one - and the Horowitz video on yt is of course incredible in every way. btw it was interesting to learn of your and the other guy's enthusiasm for that Scriabin piece. to be honest I've never liked his etudes. And whilst his early stuff is very 'a la Chopin', I still prefer it. But he's never been my favourite..
@@militaryandemergencyservic3286 oh - yeah op 22 is sort of fluffy but I still love it. Over the years I’ve gravitated towards the polonaise fantaisie, which might be his greatest piece on a number of levels. But I grew up loving all of them actually; I’m fond of both op 26 actually. The F# minor was probably my favorite for a while too, and as much as it was once overplayed, the heroic is so ingenious and the section after the LH octaves and before the recap is still one of my favorite passages in all of Chopin.
@@benlawdy interesting. I never got into that one... will maybe try it again, at same time as Lim's Rach 3. By the way, I did a few pastiches of some of Chopin's genres. My best is the 'scherzo number 1' - but they are all pretty worthless. still - do you compose, Ben? here is that playlist of mine - th-cam.com/play/PLYUhuuvIrJm0dcmhr8KtklL50fUpxuzKB.html
and by the way i know exactly which bit you mean on the heroic - it used to make me cry, baby that I was. I found it the most difficult part to play, though...
My favorite performance of all time is the live Horowitz Mephisto Waltz.
Thank you so much.~~
I seem to recall in all yt's you were using " Laude". Perhaps only tonebase. No biggie
@@michaelkennis6097 it is always “Laude” in print, but you might see my new YT/IG handle @benlawdy sometimes when people link to my channel
For Rachmaninoff 3 I'll call your attention to the Lukas Vondracuk performance at the Queen Elizabeth competition.
@@dorfmanjones I’ll check it out
did Ben Laude personally met with Horowitz ?
@@peterectasy2957 yes I interviewed him for TH-cam when I was an infant. I was very precocious and ahead of my time.
Yes, except that Horowitz with Ormandy is his weakest performance of the piece. There are other prformances by him that are greter, like with Barbirrolli.
@@petervonberg2711 I agree with that. I loved it in college, but it’s a bit too indulgent and even Horowitz recognized as much. Garrick Ohlsson told me he was in the hall for it - in the balcony, cringing. But I still love it, even if it’s for all the wrong reasons.
@@benlawdy Can’t imagine that….pianist’s hall
I love this piece so I tried something a little different… th-cam.com/video/uoYB-NKf7eA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=GitYjwMk9_P_6gNw
alexei Sultanov won the cliburn - he is one of the best pianists i have heard. i will now go and see if this performance by Lim really is as good as Horowitz's '78 one. I do doubt that...
It’s starts off a little tame but make sure you stick with it all the way through!
And by the way, many Horowitz fans I know don’t cite the 77-78 rach 3s as even Horowitz’s best, in fact many think it’s his worst (he recorded it with Reiner, Coates, plus performances in NY and LA from the 40s), and Horowitz himself didn’t like how he played.
(Oh and by the way I think Sultanov is amazing too. I don’t know his rach 3 though… if he has one? His Rach 2 is one of the best)
@@benlawdy Didn't he refuse the award at the Chopin in Warsaw?
@@davidemach1613 yes because they weren’t going to award 1st prize (they didn’t in 1990 either, nor did Tchaikovsky competition in 1994 when Lugansky got the silver… strange times)
@@benlawdy yes - Ben - sultanov never did the 3rd concerto. By the way, max harrison has a great book on Rach - in which he says how sadly similar the endings of 3 and 2 are. i know that the horowitz 78 is rubbish compared to his earlier ones. old horowitz is always worse than young horowitz, as everyone knows (exception - the live on yt schubert d899 number 3 imo). yes - i'm trying to work my way through the Lim and find it really boring. will try another day, by the way the cadenza is quite flat. i recommend freddy kempf's ossia cadenza for the huge bass. thanks for a good vid, though. why dont you want to do t. poon? she is spectacular imo (and went to your school)
People do not want the legends they believe in to be shattered. For a new legend to be born, there has to be a tragic story, like a plane crash.
I'm sure he didn't mean to use the word ecosystem towards the end at 9.50. in the context of music
An ecosystem is a geographic area where plants, animals and other organisms, as well as weather and landscape, work together to form a bubble of life. Ecosystems contain biotic or living parts, as well as abiotic factors, or nonliving parts. Biotic factors include plants, animals and other organisms. 😏
People often use the term metaphorically too, as Ben did.
Kevin, Lim is a fabulous pianist, but please, get a grippy-poo. You switched allegiance from Horowitz/Ormandy to this clever and all-too-self-aware performance? There's still time to return, my friend, to Horowitz's unmatched authenticity and a relationship to the music that yields a revelation a second.
I mean, you two guys blab on about musical meaning but then seem comfortable saying nonsense like, by analogy: "Yeah, Rembrandt's okay, but Picasso paints circles around him."
When Horowitz plays the Third (I exclude the Mehta because of Horowitz's age), Rachmaninoff turns the pages. Lim? Wonderful technique. The beginning of musical ideas. Let's see if experience deepens him, increases what he has to say at the keyboard and what musical meanings he liberates.
The Scriabin? I'm with you all the way.
If I’m reading you correctly, you’re saying Yunchan is like Picasso? Not even Kevin or I have gone that far! 😉
As for Horowitz/Ormandy, that’s a controversial performance and even by Horowitz’s own admission he thought he played like a pig. I love it for what it is and spent a solid part of college devoted to it but it’s also dripping with excess that undercuts the wholeness of the work. Or… maybe you hear it differently! In any case, there are different ways to listen to music and I’m just as interested in Kevin’s lifetime of listening as I am yours. And we can all agree that Yunchan is someone to keep listening to in the future.
I can't believe you said Lim is only wonderful technique. I doubt you've heard him LIVE. Heck I doubt whether you can even play the piano. 🤣
Nevertheless, hopefully you get to hear him LIVE someday.
@@dionysus4778 Nice try, but Manhattan School of Music and years with Mary Klemperer (and presence at a significant number of Horowitz NYC performances). Lim's good; so are a million other pianists. I'm looking for three dimensions, not two.
@@benlawdy Sorry, I should have reined in the imagery, but I felt I had your permission with all that weeping conductor stuff. I mean only that Lim delivers a more than competent and applause-worthy performance, but so do any number of other contemporary pianists; and from none of them do I get what I'm looking for in the 3rd: something revelatory, utterly personal and subjective, something that exposes the emotional content of the music. The Lim doesn't do that for me.
Also, as you may sense, I have a closed mind on the subject and un-shifting loyalties.
But I'm 81, and raised in NYC by a musical family whose forebears came from the same 'neighborhood' as Rachmaninoff and Horowitz, so I give myself lots of latitude. ;)
@@genemiller9198 you do your thing Gene! Glad you shared your perspective and I don’t mind the colorful language at all. And I know what you’re talking about in Yunchan’s performance. Despite my love for Horowitz, I also have a gouldian side to me that enjoys an element of detached manipulation in interpretation - yunchan has a little of that. You can really hear it in his Chopin etudes too. But I think his Liszt shows a personality and depth of feeling that will grow over time, while keeping that arsenal of technical design-tools in his fingers. He does things with texture and sound that I think are in the neighborhood of revelation, even if they’re not everyone’s cup of tea.
Yunchan is super talented. He has phenomenal technical abilities and is quite musical for a young man, but...I think he's being over-hyped. They were calling it the greatest performance of the Liszt TEs, the greatest Rach 3rd...lets not get ahead of ourselves. I think he has tremendous potential, but lets not anoint him the second coming of Vlad Horowitz...yet.
I agree with all that! And, as I like to remind people, I only *asked the question* "Is Yunchan's Rach 3 the best?..." I never actually answered it ;) And it's always good to appeal to Yunchan's own humility on the topic - he's not happy with his Cliburn performances, and is only determined to get better. I'm glad he has that attitude, and it's another thing that makes me want to follow him. His Cliburn performances definitely stand out among recent international competition performances, but he still plays with limitations (partly because it was a competition) and I believe he has a lot more to say in the future.
@@benlawdy Totally. I loved Anna Genuishene at the Cliburn, too. It will definitely be interesting to follow Yunchan’s career.
@@Daniel_Ilyich To me, the issue isn't really whether he's overhyped or not. I think we will all agree that a performance of classical music gathering millions of enthusiastic people is a totally positive thing. The problem is comparative, when the hype happens at the expense of other equally gifted musicians. So many listeners lack the critical mind and intellectual curiosity (and sometimes even the humility) to simply acknowledge the fact that there can be more than one great recording of any given piece. Listening to classical music is NOT a zero-sum game. We should always be listening and never take anything for granted.
@@MisterPathetique I agree with you 100%. The whole idea of competitions seems like a necessary evil.
@@Daniel_Ilyich I guess they are. As the adage says, there's no such thing as bad publicity!
I'm sure Kevin Scott, whoever he is, has nice enthusiasm, and something to offer, but someone needs to point out to him that for a grown man to be taken seriously, he needs to stop modifying almost every word and phrase with "LIKE"
I was sitting in the front row of the Lim performance. It was excellent, but was not on the same level as the Horowitz and Argerich masterpieces.
@@sunareekaewnat8967 I agree! But also H and A weren’t 18 playing in a competition finals. What’s cool is how much he’s already assimilating from those past great artists and how much potential he has to grow. And also that performance was special for non-musical reasons (as you know, being there). I understand it there was something kind of magical in the air, the way the orchestra and Alsop responded to him, his body language in certain parts, and just the whole context of it being the finals, and the sort of unanimous feeling in the hall as it unfolded that this kid was giving the winning performance. But, you tell me if you felt that being in the audience!
which concert was that? I've been to his numerous concerts and recitals, and I realize he plays differently in each performance. The 2 artists you mentioned, I don't even want to go there since I do respect them for their contribution to music. Lim has truly opened my eyes and ears to the music, opening up the whole new world for me. I'm sure there are many people like me who are influenced by Lim like this, esp those who were never into classical music.
@@dionysus4778 me too~~^^
Can't be compared having in mind their time and their age and Mr Lim's age (18) when he won the Cliburn.
Btw, Yunchan's Mazeppa during the very same competition was out of this world.
He's definitely the best young artist on the planet.
@@benlawdywhen I start studying at Zagreb music academy back in the 90s, running to Musikverein in Vienna over the weekends I was convinced that women would NEVER be a good conductor. Until Marin Alsop appeared.
That night stays marked as the greatest interpretation of Rach3 ever.
Yunchan Lim has played Rachmaninov's 3rd piano concerto? Funny, I haven't heard anyone mention it.
@@da__lang good one
I’m sorry but Yunchan’s performance is overrated when compared to Horowitz and some others. I appreciate it but it’s still immature and a bit cold
@@adamblock5141 fair and Yunchan himself would probably agree with you. I think aspects of the performance are up there with historic performances, and I’ve pointed all of them out, but for example his first movement - although structurally coherent - could use more definition in the first theme and I’ve never quite followed his interpretation of the second theme. Two pretty important moments in the piece! His 2023 performances had some interesting developments in the 2nd movement, and his 3rd movement has always been pretty thrilling. He might not ever get a titanic sound like some pianists we love, and makes up for it with laser precision that can sound cold. But the performance caught everyone’s attention the moment it happened - before he had the chance to be overrated - so I think the interest in his performance and future development is warranted.
@@benlawdy Ben, can you point out what the developments were in 2023? Unfortunately I haven’t had the chance to hear any of his 2023 performances. Would love to hear your insights. (Will this be included in your upcoming videos?)
Also, if you haven’t already, if you can somehow come across his Korean TV interview (May 2024) about why he stopped playing Rach 3, you’d find it interesting.
Btw love your diplomatic and thoughtful responses to some of the “cold” comments here lol
@@arinz-p8x making a whole video on exactly that topic for the tonebase YT channel. Long overdue project that will come to fruition soon!
@@benlawdy I’m very interested in his future. He could be quite an artist 🎶 Ben thanks for all of the content. We love it!
@@benlawdy Huge thank you to you, Ben. And please remember to get some rest when you can! 🙂 Appreciate all the hard work you put into all these videos.