@@toobalkain I wouldn't call the other two dumb, that's just mad disrespectful and not true at all lmao. But Rami definitely seemed like the smartest one throughout the podcasts.
Wait, the inherent assumption that the atheist lost the debate is ridiculous. The debate only ended in a stalemate due to the fact that the atheist failed defend the idea very rational stance that he has to see to believe or to use a Biblical reference the disciple Thomas needing to touch Jesus' wounds to affirm the resurrection. But for me the major problematic assumption put forward by my Muslim brothers in this video is the idea that their atheist challenger was unable to assert, is the idea contingency negates authority. This fact is disproven by their own belief that Islam is the one true religion, the fact is if we assume that Islam is the single authoritative truth for humanity then definitionally all other human systems are contingent. This contingency does not negate their authority since billions of people follow these other world views, and this truth brings into the foreground that humans acquiesce to contingent systems of authority. The problem is that over time systems built my humanity (social systems) become fossilized and naturalized as the debate surround their existence are forgotten. So the idea that our natural systems are not simply building blocks of one contingent truth upon another as an option for how the universe came into being seems to be an unfair analysis at best. It seems that it any religious person with intellectual persuasions that doesn't at least consider this possibility is being disingenuous.
He keeps saying “why not” and “so what.” it’s not about why not, it’s about reality. It is what it is irrespective of what we desire. Rami, you did awesome explaining. 👍🏽 May Allah guide Mike to the true way. Ameen!
@@yourwayoryahwehtestedbyfir681 Terry???!!! Lol 😆 Terry your obsessed with us, you're obsessed with Islam and Muslims. You should take that as a sign why are you so obsessed. Either its God's way of leading you to become Muslim.... or it's the devil influencing you to keep trying to mislead the people who are on the truth/the right path. Lol although you are doing a horrible job at it 🤣 no one is convinced by your nonsense. We don't believe in corrupt Bible and Paul who had to take the Nazareth vow because he got in trouble by the apostles loool. You follow Paul you don't follow Jesus.
Bro stfu 🤦🏻♂️ You don’t know sh!t about god, no one does (if he’s real) Idk why you theists act like you know everything about him, it’s so sus Humans made all this cr@p up That’s why there are so many religions
Isn’t it ironic that in order for God to reveal His existence to us, we must first be willing to believe that there’s a God. Only then are we able to KNOW that He exists. That’s when His existence becomes a fact.
That guy had my cells scattered, his body language and facial expression were working against him. And Anghel is right, it's not worthy having conversations with such kind of people. They are definitely confused confusers, if that makes sense lol
Nah bruh there was nothing wrong in the language explanation u were completely right im 15 years old and english isnt even my main language and i understood XD
Full Debate ⬇️ th-cam.com/video/oVlsSNM8vOA/w-d-xo.html 🚨 Tomorrow’s episode is Dr. Omar Zaid, MD all about the v1rus and the vacc1nes. Friday is brother Eddie from TheDeenShowTV. 🚨 PLEASE SHARE THIS VIDEO! It’s your support that helps our small channel reach millions of lives in sha Allah! 🚨 Although some videos run ads, youtube demonetizes most of our realest episodes (no revenue), which is very common on our channel. If you'd like exclusive content and to support us, please become a patron (link in description)! Enjoy our prior content if new! - Faiyad
Off course that makes sense bro... The common answer every atheist uses as a scapegoat is "we don't know" bro I'm a new subscriber and I watched the full debate live ,, some of the words you were using I've never heard of in my life ,, all I can say is akhi 'you wiped the floor with him... He couldn't look you in the eye,, the whole video he kept looking around each time yousaid something that confused him,,, all he could say was 'why not',, mashallah bro may Allah guide you to jannah
The math explanation was pretty coherent and easy to follow. It was one of the easier concepts to follow throughout the debate. He should've been able to follow it. It wasn't your wording. You worded it pretty well
In a letter to Voltaire, Rousseau wrote: “I have suffered too much in my life not to look forward to another. Not all the subtleties of metaphysics can shake for one moment my belief in a beneficent Providence. I sense the existence of Providence, I believe in it, I insist on it, I hope for it, I shall defend it to my last breath.” (Rousseau, as cited in Guehenno 1966, 351; see also Caputo 2000, 65).
“All nature cries to us that He exists, that there is a Supreme Intelligence, a power immense, an order admirable, and all teaches us our dependence.” (Voltaire, as cited in Parton 1884, 554).
When it comes to the necessary and contingent part of the debate, i do not think Mike understood that the universe has a beginning where everything was created according to the Big Bang theory and general science. Since that is the case and the universe is known to have a time of birth, although uncertain, there is no way it can rely on itself to keep existing unlike what Mike tried to argue. The universe has to have something that it is reliant upon which is like Rami said a necessary existence that is completely independent. Feel free to correct me if I said anything wrong or misunderstood something.
Yes, there is a reliable hypothesis and theory which supports what mike was arguing for, being quantum fluctuations, and to sum up the eternal universe theory, it basically means when the universe implodes on itself, it then starts the beginning of the cycle once more.
Guys can you make a podcast about mental health and islam? I been dealing with OCD eversince this pandemic has happened. Also reading the quran i seen vereses of quran saying things like their heart has hardened and they will get no help, it's probably my anxiety but i fear that allah won't accept me or im too late, even with this i still push past. I know there is a subset of ocd like religion ocd but i have different theme of OCD. Anyways im so grateful to see you guys close to my age that made a podcast like this because it's relatable
the fact that u r concerned tells me this verse aint talking bout you bro. If your heart was hardened then u would have been far away from the deen, your just being tested and may allah help u with it. As for the mental health bit even the prophet suffered from depression am sure if i remember correct. But yeah this is soemthing many ppl dont talk alot about but needs to be talked about as specially here in the west there seems to be ppl suffering from it a lot.
May Allah Almighty make things easier for you and may He, The Most Merciful, The Giver of Peace grant you with His Mercy in this life and the next. Aameen.
In my opinion, and I want to be clear that this isn’t really a complaint about this debate in particular, but more so on the concept of online debates / this format in general, these “debates” rarely end well, and aren’t a good format for trying to understand one another as atheists, Muslims, etc. One problem that I have with online debates is that focusing so much on “facts and logic” is rarely a good debate strategy to begin with. As much as people might not like to admit it, we as humans are often more persuaded by emotional appeals like personal stories or anecdotes, and emotional rhetoric is often more persuasive to laypeople than spreadsheets of data and research papers to back up our claims with terms like “p-value” and “control group.” This is perhaps in part because most people do not have an academic background and are not well versed in debate to even notice or care about inconsistencies or logical fallacies. Do most people know what a strawman is? What about ad hominem, etc.? Do most people even care? Call me contrarian, but I don’t think they do. Then comes the second issue I have with this format: are most people (audience and speakers alike) genuinely interested in a discussion of ideas and trying to understand the perspectives of each other, or are they more interested in a back and forth directed at each other, attacking one another’s intelligence or other personal characteristics to try to “own” one another? Ultimately, the result of online “debates” I’ve seen is usually one side arguing AT the other. It often, unfortunately, ends up getting personal, and even the audience gets off on it, with each side of the audience concluding, “The other person totally got destroyed!” Pretty much nobody ends up convinced that the other side “won” the debate in the end, because the audience was looking forward to a blood bath where their opponent gets “owned.” Therefore, often, the audience is rooting for their favorite team all along, and gets the result that they wanted regardless. That all said, props to both of you, Rami and Mike, for going through with the debate, and you do you. I just wanted to say that this is something I have noticed that affects all kinds of channels with regards to the debate format. It is far too easy to accidentally (or even purposefully) turn a channel into a toxic echo chamber with the debate format. Online discourse is almost like it is designed to be a nasty place in order to lure people in to generate clicks and revenue off of sassy one-liners and short clips that have nothing to do with the ideas at hand, and I think that if the outcome of a debate is that people attack one another as human beings, then we all lose.
I used to be big into watching these speaker's corner type debates. They were helpful at a time when I had rational doubts, but I continued to watch them and they were making me rather judgemental and negative. Since then I won't watch any debates, they are pointless. If a debate could be solved with logic, you wouldn't need these deabtes. We would just need a catalog of responses to send them, no need to chat.
@@IWANTHOTDOG Same, it’s like they’re designed to make you angry at someone. I see channels get so big and renowned for their cutthroat and dirty “debate” style that people of either persuasion get attacked in the comments section. That shows me that many people aren’t coming to those channels or debates out of genuine curiosity, respect, and understanding, they’re there for something else. And let’s be real, it’s hard to change minds like that (especially your whole world view), right on the street. Often it takes time to think about perspectives you might not’ve heard before. It seems kind of irrational to believe people are capable of considering each other’s perspectives and replying with a proper, measured response right on the spot, unless they are trained professionally in debate and have done their research. So often I wish people would encourage one another to say, “I don’t know,” or, “I haven’t considered that perspective before,” or “I need some time to think about that.” That level of decorum doesn’t generate a lot of TH-cam revenue though, because that’s not what a lot of people want to hear.
U should check out ramis conversations with atheists on his IG They're pretty down to reasoning and understanding properly Also, if u want to check out a proper platform online where very calm and collected convos take place, check out Shamsi from Speakers Corner
I feel like some points flew wayyyyy past his head. At some point you guys were arguing in two parallel lanes. Maybe you could try simplifying your points further in such scenarios in the future. Use more questions, let him come up with the answers himself so that he could comprehend the points more before he replies to them.
Rami, I only watched 10mins of this discussion. I had to switch off, was doing my head in! Well done for staying calm. I think I would have screamed in Mike’s face. ( only because it wouldn’t have been possible to punch him!) Grrrrrr Relax Rami, you’re a legend ✨
“To know the mighty works of God, to comprehend His wisdom and majesty and power, to appreciate, in degree, the wonderful working of His laws, surely all this must be a pleasing and acceptable mode of worship to the Most High, to whom ignorance cannot be more gratifying than knowledge.” (Copernicus, as cited in Neff 1952, 191-192; and in Hubbard 1905, v).
3 min in it definitely made sense :) may Allah increase y'all in knowledge and patience Pain 😭😭it was pain throughout the debate ; not even a debate - it was Rami teaching
Agree it is painful to watch.Unbelievably weak on both side.Go read some real philosophy if you are smart and humble enough or watch Bertrand Russell’s and copleston’s debate if you are bit lazy and want a relatively better debate instead.
“God is absolutely perfect, for perfection is nothing but amount of positive reality, in the strict sense, leaving out of account the limits or bounds in things which are limited. And where there are no bounds, that is to say in God, perfection is absolutely infinite. It follows also that created beings derive their perfections from the influence of God, but that their imperfections come from their own nature, which is incapable of being without limits. For it is in this that they differ from God.” (Leibniz 1898, No. 41-42).
English is my second language, I still struggle with a lot of English grammars, not even half way as fluent as this guy but how come he can't comprehend Rami's analysis?
You guys should get bilal abdulkareem on from ogn tv, mans a journalist and has been in Syria since the start of the war, and he is still there which is crazy. having him on the podcast will clarify misconceptions about the war and will teach lay muslims like us what the heck is happening to our brothers and sisters in Syria.
This is so painful to watch. My God, Mike really needs to ponder and think on this video. Rewatch it with sincerety and see the flaw of his responses/arguments. May Allah guide him to the truth
“This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being. This Being governs all things, not as the soul of the world, but as Lord over all; and on account of His dominion He is wont to be called Lord God.” (Newton 1687, Principia).
I think debates are only valuable if both parties commit to humbly submit to the truth. If it's just for the sake of debating and winning, then it's useless and a waste of time. Because neither party will ever change their mind. Sayidna Ali ibn Abi Talib said: I have never debated an ignorant except they beat me and I have never debated a knowledgeable except I beat them.
@The3Muslims 3:54 Brother Rami's point was right, very well articulated. The other guy didn't understand because he was too caught up with proving that he was right with whatever statement that he had. Also such people take pride in their answer, they enjoy ridiculing you with a statement which is absolutely out of context just to set you off. Setting you off is exactly what he wanted because then that, to him is a win point. Mike's response reminds me a lot of how a narcissist manipulate people.
I think brother rami you were too ahead of him you were taking him to be on the same footing as you 😂 maybe slowing down and defining everything you are saying you might've been able to go through him but I don't think he wanted to agree with you. may Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'aala bless you all with goodness even more aameen
Mike sometimes argues even though he agrees with what u just bc he is trying to respond and not trying to understand. Also, he just likes to make fun which isn’t respectful. When he asked the question and wanted a yes or no, he knows it is a fallacy. If I ask him, did your mom get out of jail yet? He can’t answer with yes or no.. Yes, means his mom went to jail and is out No, means his mom is still in jail. Even though his mom may have never went to jail. A yes or no question is sometimes a fallacy
“God is the only ruler of the world. He governs as a monarch, but not as a despot; for He wills to have His commands observed out of love, and not out of servile fear. Like a father, He orders what is good for us, and does not command out of mere arbitrariness, like a tyrant. God even demands of us that we reflect on the reason for His commandments, and He insists on our observing them because He wants first to make us worthy of happiness and then participate in it. God’s will is benevolence, and His purpose is what is best.” (Kant 1978, 156; Lectures on Philosophical Theology).
Dude basically asked “Can God do something He can’t?” Like that entire questions is based off the idea of God not being able to do something, which is why it’s a terrible question. Alhamdulillahi rab al ‘alameen I’m able to comprehend this stuff now, before I had a harder time doing it.
The universe can't be sustained by itself because every component of it is contingent upon other component, every contingent is in itself contingent upon other component that is contingent & soo on in a chain... until you finally reach a point where the most basic component needs a sustainer from an outside source !!!! If we said such basic component is "energy" then it needs to be supplied ! This is observable through entropy!
The dude already lost it when he started to include "so you're saying" bait into his arguments, he can't bring up a solid reasoning behind his ideology so he decided to twist your words and make say stuffs you didn't say. Always beware of those who use "so you're saying" method, they're not trying to have an decent argument all they want is to trap you in your own beliefs to use them against you.
The one part where Mike brought up if God could do something like create a rock he can't lift brought a though in my mind. God is the necessary being that does not change like the universe changes. If God was to make himself weak he would be changing and would no longer be the necessary existence which can not change. Also when we say God can do anything, what we man is God can do anything that's possible so something impossible can't be done.
1:58 There is a difference between objective logic, and everything else. Objective logic: 1+1= 2, no matter what planet or universe you live in Language (which counts as everything else) : Rami could be a word in English, and in another plane of existence, it could not.
When people talk about squaring the circles, or reconciling two viewpoints or models, that is only an issue with people who have preconceived ideas, but scientists cannot have preconceived ideas they must believe the evidence. All scientific models must conform to NATURE or REALITY, If there is any tiny evidence for some unnatural forces then they must include that in their paper and account for it.
"It's fallacious because you say so" This guy will bring shame to other atheists lol what a pathetic approach to an intellectual debate. These people are truly arrogant and have no desire to seek answers.
This was barely a debate, couldn't even define basic concepts. Mike was not ready for this. And honestly rami, you should not have debated him in the first place i swear it could almost seem like u picked him specifically to beat an easy target. I know u didnt, but it could legitimately come across that way with how stupid he was being. Argue against someone better.
He had no intentions of learning or seeking for the truth he was simply debating for the hell of it trying to save what little reputation he had left after asking those stupid questions..!
“And thus I very clearly see that the certitude and truth of all science depends on the knowledge alone of the true God, insomuch that, before I knew him, I could have no perfect knowledge of any other thing. And now that I know him, I possess the means of acquiring a perfect knowledge respecting innumerable matters, as well relative to God himself and other intellectual objects as to corporeal nature.” (Descartes 1901, Meditation V).
Hey guys *virtual video game kick* ! we ladies don't argue for argument sake, certainly not straight for two hours. We definitely not childish like that when the discussion is about Allah all mighty. Am very disappointed at the level of that debate, Rami was the only one there.. the other guy was simply so childish.. and yes I watched the full debate... my heart almost explode, May Allah reward you for your patience brother Rami.
This is pure comic relief 😁😁 Rami .... how did u not pull ur hair off during this debate ? He clearly doesn't understand what u are talking about ... it's just going right over his head
sometimes its not about logic, but trying to understand why these people are so jaded from religion. could be a traumatic experience they've had that pushed them away because we all have the fitrah, it's just a matter or re awakening whats already inside. it could be the most simplest thing because these debates are only fruitful if the other person actually wants to learn.
It’s non-intuitive to understand that all this complexity is just natural and no intervention of any being is required, it’s much much simpler and easier for humans to believe that some being did it magically, especially when we are indoctrinated to believe from a very early age by our parents, teachers, leaders, elders practically everyone. And if we don’t conform to our parents religions then we can be shunned, disowned and possibly harmed. originally from Karachi Pakistan and Teer Haripur Hazaara, now ex-Muslim Atheist .
May explain Infinite regress and use the example of standing in line at a library to get a book but there is someone in front of you and in front of them etc for infinity…..question is would you ever get to the library and get a book? The answer is no.
I don’t see any evidence for anything un-natural, therefore I am not convinced that there is anything unnatural like magic, ‘jadoo’, spirits, ghost, ‘jins’, ‘rooh’ and gods . originally from Karachi Pakistan and Teer Haripur Hazaara, now ex-Muslim Atheist ,
I think for him to understand your arguments, you would have to dumb it down a bit. He definitely wasn't philosophically trained. A quote comes to mind. "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men’s minds about to religion." Francis Bacon
Your intention should be to bring him to the truth not win the argument. Calling him an idiot is going to keep him further away from the truth. Remember the verse in the Quan where Allah sent Musa to Firawon and told him he should speak with Him gently. "فقولا له قولا لينا لعله يتذكر أو يخشى"
It made sense. Maths is axiomatic. We simply accept it to be true because it's a self evident truth. There's no way to prove it. It proves itself simply by existing as a truth.
i remember once i talked to an atheist, and while we were talking he said "oh my god" and also said "jesus christ" so i told him ur an atheist ur not supposed to say that cuz u dont have a god no ? he said to me that its just a saying and he got used to it because he heard people saying it alot😂😂😂😂
So Rami is attacking mathematics that basically in our form comes from Islam’s Golden Age as a argument against a atheist because what. The irony of that itself is funny. People with no education of knowledge should not speak for a entire people. Go educate yourself before embarrassing us all. The guy asked is God limited by logic? Rami: that is a fallacious question then screaming it’s self-defeating and then ending with God sent a angel to deliver the message. A fallacious question means in essence a question framed in a way that leads to illogical or misleading conclusion often using unwarranted assumptions, false dilemmas used to manipulate responses. So examples have you stop drinking alcohol. The question assumes dat I have been drinking without evidence or the possibility I have never drunk alcohol before. How is the question is God logical a fallacious question now you yourself you understand the definition better than Rami himself. So he just randomly screams big words he doesn’t even understand. Another example for that. The immediate next argument he screams it’s self-defeating. Self-defeating is when something is self-defeating when it works against itself, making it counterproductive or unable to achieve its intended outcome. So a easy example so you understand better than Rami does what it entails. I always lie. That is self defeating as if it’s true then this sentence itself cannot as i would then speak the truth which makes it self-defeating. Another example. I have never written a word in my life. The statement undermines itself as for writing that sentence defeats it’s own claim. So again no you guys understand self defeating better than Rami. How was the question is God logical self defeating. He thinks using words that seem to go over his head and screaming them are valid arguments. Like this is delusional to the point of maybe a mental problem. Another examples for this. And I’m explaining it clearly. Deductive reasoning involves drawing specific conclusions from general principles or premises. Here's a simple example: 1. All humans are mortal. (General Premise) 2. Socrates is a human. (Specific Premise) 3. Therefore, Socrates is mortal. (Deductive Conclusion) In this example, the conclusion about Socrates being mortal is drawn logically from the general principle that all humans are mortal. Deductive reasoning aims to be valid - if the premises are true and the reasoning is sound, the conclusion is considered logically certain. It's a top-down approach where you start with general statements and work your way to specific conclusions. Presupposed means simply something that is assumed or taken for granted before considering or discussing a particular topic or situation. He doesn’t understand what that means. In many discussions involving mathematical concepts or calculations, the understanding and application of mathematical principles are often presupposed. For example, when discussing a physics problem, there might be a presupposition that the audience has a basic understanding of mathematical equations. A presupposition that is clearly wrong in this case. He throws around words he doesn’t understand and entire branches of science he doesn’t understand while screaming and think he is logical. The embodiment of Dunning Kruger Effect. Meaning to incompetent to realize his own incompetence. And again mathematics as we know it comes from Islamic Golden age and him attacking it with words he clearly doesn’t grasp pissed me off enough to type this up. And these were just the first statements he made. The first minutes alone proved enough about his delusional perceived grasp of these subjects.
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“We have surely set forth in this Quran every lesson for the people, but humankind is the most argumentative of all beings.”
- (Qur’an 18:54)
Ibn Murrah the time traveler 😂😂😂😂 love the name loool
lol I didn't know Rami was this clever, mans brain works quick
tabarakallah
MashAllah
- Faiyad
Yes mashallah
Yes I was surprised😱 Maasha Allah 💪🏾❤️
@@toobalkain I wouldn't call the other two dumb, that's just mad disrespectful and not true at all lmao. But Rami definitely seemed like the smartest one throughout the podcasts.
The sad Irony is that these Atheists actually think they are super smart 🤦♂️
They think they are God over the Universe.
@@GuidetteExpertSo they are believing that they are fictional?
Wait, the inherent assumption that the atheist lost the debate is ridiculous. The debate only ended in a stalemate due to the fact that the atheist failed defend the idea very rational stance that he has to see to believe or to use a Biblical reference the disciple Thomas needing to touch Jesus' wounds to affirm the resurrection. But for me the major problematic assumption put forward by my Muslim brothers in this video is the idea that their atheist challenger was unable to assert, is the idea contingency negates authority. This fact is disproven by their own belief that Islam is the one true religion, the fact is if we assume that Islam is the single authoritative truth for humanity then definitionally all other human systems are contingent. This contingency does not negate their authority since billions of people follow these other world views, and this truth brings into the foreground that humans acquiesce to contingent systems of authority. The problem is that over time systems built my humanity (social systems) become fossilized and naturalized as the debate surround their existence are forgotten. So the idea that our natural systems are not simply building blocks of one contingent truth upon another as an option for how the universe came into being seems to be an unfair analysis at best. It seems that it any religious person with intellectual persuasions that doesn't at least consider this possibility is being disingenuous.
their answer is always what if or dont know.
They are just bunch of idiots
He keeps saying “why not” and “so what.” it’s not about why not, it’s about reality. It is what it is irrespective of what we desire. Rami, you did awesome explaining. 👍🏽 May Allah guide Mike to the true way. Ameen!
@@yourwayoryahwehtestedbyfir681 Terry???!!! Lol 😆 Terry your obsessed with us, you're obsessed with Islam and Muslims. You should take that as a sign why are you so obsessed. Either its God's way of leading you to become Muslim.... or it's the devil influencing you to keep trying to mislead the people who are on the truth/the right path. Lol although you are doing a horrible job at it 🤣 no one is convinced by your nonsense. We don't believe in corrupt Bible and Paul who had to take the Nazareth vow because he got in trouble by the apostles loool. You follow Paul you don't follow Jesus.
@@yourwayoryahwehtestedbyfir681 keep coping terry
If you lack intelligence just say so. It's about why or why no t with respect to the Muslims claims that things can't be X way without god.
Randomly grasping at your presuppositions isn't rationality.
Bro stfu 🤦🏻♂️
You don’t know sh!t about god, no one does (if he’s real)
Idk why you theists act like you know everything about him, it’s so sus
Humans made all this cr@p up
That’s why there are so many religions
If their hearts are closed you can't do anything to convince them, believing in god is in our hearts first then our minds
Isn’t it ironic that in order for God to reveal His existence to us, we must first be willing to believe that there’s a God. Only then are we able to KNOW that He exists. That’s when His existence becomes a fact.
His facial expressions explain everything. I enjoyed his face more then his argument.
@@yourwayoryahwehtestedbyfir681
I saw that podcast and saw how they taught you appeal to mystery is a logical fallacy.
And here my father thinks I'm the only one in this world, who is failing in maths all the time 😤😤😤😤😤......
And Rami is just 20😭.
He the guy your dad tells you to be like :')
Frrr 💀
Always say masha Allah :)
@@JohnTronto Masha'Allah
Wait.... Reallyyy?
Is he really just 20?
You all know that he’s not tryna hear the truth, rami is right but you should have realized halfway into it that this man is not worth your timr
That guy had my cells scattered, his body language and facial expression were working against him. And Anghel is right, it's not worthy having conversations with such kind of people. They are definitely confused confusers, if that makes sense lol
Some atheists use ignorance and confusion as excuses to hide their blatant disbelief.
Nah bruh there was nothing wrong in the language explanation u were completely right im 15 years old and english isnt even my main language and i understood XD
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Off course that makes sense bro... The common answer every atheist uses as a scapegoat is "we don't know" bro I'm a new subscriber and I watched the full debate live ,, some of the words you were using I've never heard of in my life ,, all I can say is akhi 'you wiped the floor with him... He couldn't look you in the eye,, the whole video he kept looking around each time yousaid something that confused him,,, all he could say was 'why not',, mashallah bro may Allah guide you to jannah
Those words sounded odd to you because he was using them incorrectly or deceptively.
“What?? You believe god is not part of the universe??”
My man sounded like a Christian for a second
arent you the guy the comments in fard channel salam brother
Lol
@@heyhala3232 yessir
As Ahmed deedat said they’re all Christians in the back of their mind
@@heyhala3232 I was about to ask Imam whether he was lost 😅
The math explanation was pretty coherent and easy to follow. It was one of the easier concepts to follow throughout the debate. He should've been able to follow it. It wasn't your wording. You worded it pretty well
In a letter to Voltaire, Rousseau wrote:
“I have suffered too much in my life not to look forward to another. Not all the subtleties
of metaphysics can shake for one moment my belief in a beneficent Providence. I sense the
existence of Providence, I believe in it, I insist on it, I hope for it, I shall defend it to my last
breath.” (Rousseau, as cited in Guehenno 1966, 351; see also Caputo 2000, 65).
“All nature cries to us that He exists, that there is a Supreme Intelligence, a power
immense, an order admirable, and all teaches us our dependence.” (Voltaire, as cited in Parton
1884, 554).
"So what", he is basically saying I don't have a clue, "so what..." well then you are not worth our time. "So what", goodbye, "so what"... looool
😂
LOL THAT'S TRUE
Masha'ALLAH amazing to see brother anghel providing great insight into our beautiful religion Alhumdulillah
When it comes to the necessary and contingent part of the debate, i do not think Mike understood that the universe has a beginning where everything was created according to the Big Bang theory and general science. Since that is the case and the universe is known to have a time of birth, although uncertain, there is no way it can rely on itself to keep existing unlike what Mike tried to argue. The universe has to have something that it is reliant upon which is like Rami said a necessary existence that is completely independent. Feel free to correct me if I said anything wrong or misunderstood something.
Yes, there is a reliable hypothesis and theory which supports what mike was arguing for, being quantum fluctuations, and to sum up the eternal universe theory, it basically means when the universe implodes on itself, it then starts the beginning of the cycle once more.
Count the number of times the atheist says “so what” or “why not”
Guys can you make a podcast about mental health and islam? I been dealing with OCD eversince this pandemic has happened. Also reading the quran i seen vereses of quran saying things like their heart has hardened and they will get no help, it's probably my anxiety but i fear that allah won't accept me or im too late, even with this i still push past.
I know there is a subset of ocd like religion ocd but i have different theme of OCD. Anyways im so grateful to see you guys close to my age that made a podcast like this because it's relatable
Don't despair, Allah is all merciful. inshaAllah continue to make dua and try to speak to a specialist to work out why you are having these symptoms.
the fact that u r concerned tells me this verse aint talking bout you bro. If your heart was hardened then u would have been far away from the deen, your just being tested and may allah help u with it. As for the mental health bit even the prophet suffered from depression am sure if i remember correct. But yeah this is soemthing many ppl dont talk alot about but needs to be talked about as specially here in the west there seems to be ppl suffering from it a lot.
May Allah Almighty make things easier for you and may He, The Most Merciful, The Giver of Peace grant you with His Mercy in this life and the next. Aameen.
I am in the same situation.Just read much quran try to implement it make dua thats helping me very much and inshallah Allah will make it easy for you.
@@aphr0d thank you and I am talking to a specialist but not about religion. Eversince pandemic i started getting intrusive thoughts
In my opinion, and I want to be clear that this isn’t really a complaint about this debate in particular, but more so on the concept of online debates / this format in general, these “debates” rarely end well, and aren’t a good format for trying to understand one another as atheists, Muslims, etc.
One problem that I have with online debates is that focusing so much on “facts and logic” is rarely a good debate strategy to begin with. As much as people might not like to admit it, we as humans are often more persuaded by emotional appeals like personal stories or anecdotes, and emotional rhetoric is often more persuasive to laypeople than spreadsheets of data and research papers to back up our claims with terms like “p-value” and “control group.” This is perhaps in part because most people do not have an academic background and are not well versed in debate to even notice or care about inconsistencies or logical fallacies. Do most people know what a strawman is? What about ad hominem, etc.? Do most people even care? Call me contrarian, but I don’t think they do.
Then comes the second issue I have with this format: are most people (audience and speakers alike) genuinely interested in a discussion of ideas and trying to understand the perspectives of each other, or are they more interested in a back and forth directed at each other, attacking one another’s intelligence or other personal characteristics to try to “own” one another? Ultimately, the result of online “debates” I’ve seen is usually one side arguing AT the other. It often, unfortunately, ends up getting personal, and even the audience gets off on it, with each side of the audience concluding, “The other person totally got destroyed!” Pretty much nobody ends up convinced that the other side “won” the debate in the end, because the audience was looking forward to a blood bath where their opponent gets “owned.” Therefore, often, the audience is rooting for their favorite team all along, and gets the result that they wanted regardless.
That all said, props to both of you, Rami and Mike, for going through with the debate, and you do you. I just wanted to say that this is something I have noticed that affects all kinds of channels with regards to the debate format. It is far too easy to accidentally (or even purposefully) turn a channel into a toxic echo chamber with the debate format. Online discourse is almost like it is designed to be a nasty place in order to lure people in to generate clicks and revenue off of sassy one-liners and short clips that have nothing to do with the ideas at hand, and I think that if the outcome of a debate is that people attack one another as human beings, then we all lose.
I used to be big into watching these speaker's corner type debates. They were helpful at a time when I had rational doubts, but I continued to watch them and they were making me rather judgemental and negative. Since then I won't watch any debates, they are pointless. If a debate could be solved with logic, you wouldn't need these deabtes. We would just need a catalog of responses to send them, no need to chat.
@@IWANTHOTDOG Same, it’s like they’re designed to make you angry at someone. I see channels get so big and renowned for their cutthroat and dirty “debate” style that people of either persuasion get attacked in the comments section. That shows me that many people aren’t coming to those channels or debates out of genuine curiosity, respect, and understanding, they’re there for something else.
And let’s be real, it’s hard to change minds like that (especially your whole world view), right on the street. Often it takes time to think about perspectives you might not’ve heard before. It seems kind of irrational to believe people are capable of considering each other’s perspectives and replying with a proper, measured response right on the spot, unless they are trained professionally in debate and have done their research. So often I wish people would encourage one another to say, “I don’t know,” or, “I haven’t considered that perspective before,” or “I need some time to think about that.” That level of decorum doesn’t generate a lot of TH-cam revenue though, because that’s not what a lot of people want to hear.
U should check out ramis conversations with atheists on his IG
They're pretty down to reasoning and understanding properly
Also, if u want to check out a proper platform online where very calm and collected convos take place, check out Shamsi from Speakers Corner
I feel like some points flew wayyyyy past his head. At some point you guys were arguing in two parallel lanes. Maybe you could try simplifying your points further in such scenarios in the future. Use more questions, let him come up with the answers himself so that he could comprehend the points more before he replies to them.
Rami's patience tho
Reacting to your own Livestream, now that's a big brain move.
I'm glad we have him as guest, his very entertaining and educational. Guys it may look bad but alot of people are learning from this. Ty guys
That atheist's thought process was slower than Intel 386. Please brother don't debate people who are not(1) seeking the Truth and(2) not your level.
Mike is completely lost.May Allah guide him
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” (Einstein, as cited in Holt 1997).
Im ready to watch this boiii keep it up my homies
May Allah strengthen our Iman even more and grant us all jannatul firdaws Ameen.
Rami, I only watched 10mins of this discussion. I had to switch off, was doing my head in!
Well done for staying calm. I think I would have screamed in Mike’s face. ( only because it wouldn’t have been possible to punch him!) Grrrrrr
Relax Rami, you’re a legend ✨
“To know the mighty works of God, to comprehend His wisdom and majesty and
power, to appreciate, in degree, the wonderful working of His laws, surely all this must be a
pleasing and acceptable mode of worship to the Most High, to whom ignorance cannot be more
gratifying than knowledge.” (Copernicus, as cited in Neff 1952, 191-192; and in Hubbard 1905,
v).
3 min in
it definitely made sense :)
may Allah increase y'all in knowledge and patience
Pain 😭😭it was pain throughout the debate ; not even a debate - it was Rami teaching
Agree it is painful to watch.Unbelievably weak on both side.Go read some real philosophy if you are smart and humble enough or watch Bertrand Russell’s and copleston’s debate if you are bit lazy and want a relatively better debate instead.
“God is absolutely perfect, for perfection is nothing but amount of positive reality, in
the strict sense, leaving out of account the limits or bounds in things which are limited. And
where there are no bounds, that is to say in God, perfection is absolutely infinite.
It follows also that created beings derive their perfections from the influence of God, but
that their imperfections come from their own nature, which is incapable of being without limits.
For it is in this that they differ from God.” (Leibniz 1898, No. 41-42).
Brilliant
English is my second language, I still struggle with a lot of English grammars, not even half way as fluent as this guy but how come he can't comprehend Rami's analysis?
It was comprehensive but I think he did that on purpose
I think he knew the argument and knew there was no way around it
I hopped into this guy’s live and mabumecca asked this guy to debate in person and this islamophobe said he doesn’t want to be beheaded smh
Rami is the next Mohammed Hijab InshaAllah😂🙌🏼
That atheist guy clearly didn't understand things!!
My head hurts me watching this... I feel sorry for you rami that you had to go through this
You guys should get bilal abdulkareem on from ogn tv,
mans a journalist and has been in Syria since the start of the war, and he is still there which is crazy.
having him on the podcast will clarify misconceptions about the war and will teach lay muslims like us what the heck is happening to our brothers and sisters in Syria.
Yeah we’re talking
- Faiyad
@@The3Muslims smooth
This is so painful to watch. My God, Mike really needs to ponder and think on this video. Rewatch it with sincerety and see the flaw of his responses/arguments.
May Allah guide him to the truth
Guys we should spread this video in all kinds of social media.
“This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the
counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being. This Being governs all things, not as
the soul of the world, but as Lord over all; and on account of His dominion He is wont to be
called Lord God.” (Newton 1687, Principia).
I think debates are only valuable if both parties commit to humbly submit to the truth. If it's just for the sake of debating and winning, then it's useless and a waste of time. Because neither party will ever change their mind. Sayidna Ali ibn Abi Talib said: I have never debated an ignorant except they beat me and I have never debated a knowledgeable except I beat them.
Rami, you’ve obviously stirred up shite amongst the non-believers. Well done. You did a great job. Love you brother🩷
@The3Muslims 3:54 Brother Rami's point was right, very well articulated. The other guy didn't understand because he was too caught up with proving that he was right with whatever statement that he had. Also such people take pride in their answer, they enjoy ridiculing you with a statement which is absolutely out of context just to set you off. Setting you off is exactly what he wanted because then that, to him is a win point. Mike's response reminds me a lot of how a narcissist manipulate people.
Jazzaka Allahu Kayran for the vid
Alot of women who dont work are also most instrumental in keeping there homes alift and alight. MashaAllah to all the muslim women who think and do.
I think brother rami you were too ahead of him you were taking him to be on the same footing as you 😂 maybe slowing down and defining everything you are saying you might've been able to go through him but I don't think he wanted to agree with you. may Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'aala bless you all with goodness even more aameen
Yung Particle when’s the album coming, gonna be hella disruptive 😤
Maasha Allah Rami is absolutely killing this debate. Can’t wait to watch all
Mike sometimes argues even though he agrees with what u just bc he is trying to respond and not trying to understand.
Also, he just likes to make fun which isn’t respectful. When he asked the question and wanted a yes or no, he knows it is a fallacy.
If I ask him, did your mom get out of jail yet? He can’t answer with yes or no..
Yes, means his mom went to jail and is out
No, means his mom is still in jail.
Even though his mom may have never went to jail. A yes or no question is sometimes a fallacy
Yung Particle
Lmao
We be particles now
I love knowledge and those who have knowledge ❤️❤️❤️😍😍 MASHALLAH stay blessed
2:20 what was the largest mountain before mount Everest
"YOU'RE FINISHED"
this sight of Rami defending & arguing is most def radiating a more intimidating side of him and im all here for it
Mashallah ❤️🤍❤️
Brother Rami educating this "Particle" N00B 😂🤣😂
“God is the only ruler of the world. He governs as a monarch, but not as a despot; for
He wills to have His commands observed out of love, and not out of servile fear. Like a father,
He orders what is good for us, and does not command out of mere arbitrariness, like a tyrant.
God even demands of us that we reflect on the reason for His commandments, and He insists
on our observing them because He wants first to make us worthy of happiness and then
participate in it. God’s will is benevolence, and His purpose is what is best.” (Kant 1978, 156;
Lectures on Philosophical Theology).
Dude basically asked “Can God do something He can’t?”
Like that entire questions is based off the idea of God not being able to do something, which is why it’s a terrible question. Alhamdulillahi rab al ‘alameen I’m able to comprehend this stuff now, before I had a harder time doing it.
Say Mashallah guys!
The universe can't be sustained by itself because every component of it is contingent upon other component, every contingent is in itself contingent upon other component that is contingent & soo on in a chain... until you finally reach a point where the most basic component needs a sustainer from an outside source !!!!
If we said such basic component is "energy" then it needs to be supplied !
This is observable through entropy!
It seemed every argument went straight over his head like it does with every atheists I've ever seen.
Just commenting here for that algorithm boost
where is the vacine video? anyway to watch???
imagine Rami reacting to Rami while Rami is editing the video of Rami Reacting to Rami
The dude already lost it when he started to include "so you're saying" bait into his arguments, he can't bring up a solid reasoning behind his ideology so he decided to twist your words and make say stuffs you didn't say.
Always beware of those who use "so you're saying" method, they're not trying to have an decent argument all they want is to trap you in your own beliefs to use them against you.
The one part where Mike brought up if God could do something like create a rock he can't lift brought a though in my mind. God is the necessary being that does not change like the universe changes. If God was to make himself weak he would be changing and would no longer be the necessary existence which can not change. Also when we say God can do anything, what we man is God can do anything that's possible so something impossible can't be done.
1:58 There is a difference between objective logic, and everything else.
Objective logic: 1+1= 2, no matter what planet or universe you live in
Language (which counts as everything else) : Rami could be a word in English, and in another plane of existence, it could not.
When people talk about squaring the circles, or reconciling two viewpoints or models, that is only an issue with people who have preconceived ideas, but scientists cannot have preconceived ideas they must believe the evidence. All scientific models must conform to NATURE or REALITY, If there is any tiny evidence for some unnatural forces then they must include that in their paper and account for it.
"It's fallacious because you say so" This guy will bring shame to other atheists lol what a pathetic approach to an intellectual debate. These people are truly arrogant and have no desire to seek answers.
Aanghel Salamu 3alaykum you are the coolest man bro!
Mike, sorry to say but please build a sound proof house so you can hide in it and we don’t have to hear stupidity
This was barely a debate, couldn't even define basic concepts. Mike was not ready for this. And honestly rami, you should not have debated him in the first place i swear it could almost seem like u picked him specifically to beat an easy target. I know u didnt, but it could legitimately come across that way with how stupid he was being. Argue against someone better.
Contrary to this, mike was the one that started throwing shots at Islam on tiktok so he needed to be humbled
- Faiyad
He had no intentions of learning or seeking for the truth he was simply debating for the hell of it trying to save what little reputation he had left after asking those stupid questions..!
“And thus I very clearly see that the certitude and truth of all science depends on the
knowledge alone of the true God, insomuch that, before I knew him, I could have no perfect
knowledge of any other thing. And now that I know him, I possess the means of acquiring a
perfect knowledge respecting innumerable matters, as well relative to God himself and other
intellectual objects as to corporeal nature.” (Descartes 1901, Meditation V).
Hey guys *virtual video game kick* ! we ladies don't argue for argument sake, certainly not straight for two hours. We definitely not childish like that when the discussion is about Allah all mighty. Am very disappointed at the level of that debate, Rami was the only one there.. the other guy was simply so childish.. and yes I watched the full debate... my heart almost explode, May Allah reward you for your patience brother Rami.
This is pure comic relief 😁😁
Rami .... how did u not pull ur hair off during this debate ?
He clearly doesn't understand what u are talking about ... it's just going right over his head
This debate was mad confusing exude me for my slow self, mad words I didn’t even understand
Did your last video get deleted?
Mashallah the video titel gives a nice mohammed hijab vibe lmaoo
sometimes its not about logic, but trying to understand why these people are so jaded from religion. could be a traumatic experience they've had that pushed them away because we all have the fitrah, it's just a matter or re awakening whats already inside. it could be the most simplest thing because these debates are only fruitful if the other person actually wants to learn.
It’s non-intuitive to understand that all this complexity is just natural and no intervention of any being is required, it’s much much simpler and easier for humans to believe that some being did it magically, especially when we are indoctrinated to believe from a very early age by our parents, teachers, leaders, elders practically everyone. And if we don’t conform to our parents religions then we can be shunned, disowned and possibly harmed. originally from Karachi Pakistan and Teer Haripur Hazaara, now ex-Muslim Atheist .
3:46 yeah it makes sense alright I'm only 13 and I already understand
I couldnt watch the whole thing, that why i must say this vid is really practical, good that u have done it guys, it was epic like always
The debate is one fire 🔥 Maasha Allah 💪🏾
May explain Infinite regress and use the example of standing in line at a library to get a book but there is someone in front of you and in front of them etc for infinity…..question is would you ever get to the library and get a book? The answer is no.
May Allah bless you and protect you guys
I don’t see any evidence for anything un-natural, therefore I am not convinced that there is anything unnatural like magic, ‘jadoo’, spirits, ghost, ‘jins’, ‘rooh’ and gods . originally from Karachi Pakistan and Teer Haripur Hazaara, now ex-Muslim Atheist ,
As harsh as he is, Mike is right 😱
I think for him to understand your arguments, you would have to dumb it down a bit. He definitely wasn't philosophically trained. A quote comes to mind.
"It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men’s minds about to religion."
Francis Bacon
Your intention should be to bring him to the truth not win the argument. Calling him an idiot is going to keep him further away from the truth. Remember the verse in the Quan where Allah sent Musa to Firawon and told him he should speak with Him gently. "فقولا له قولا لينا لعله يتذكر أو يخشى"
I'm sorry am I the only one that can't watch this on speaker because of how embarrassing he is
I'm too ashamed and feel so sorry for this guy
It made sense. Maths is axiomatic. We simply accept it to be true because it's a self evident truth. There's no way to prove it. It proves itself simply by existing as a truth.
Amazing video 🙌🙌
i remember once i talked to an atheist, and while we were talking he said "oh my god" and also said "jesus christ" so i told him ur an atheist ur not supposed to say that cuz u dont have a god no ? he said to me that its just a saying and he got used to it because he heard people saying it alot😂😂😂😂
So Rami is attacking mathematics that basically in our form comes from Islam’s Golden Age as a argument against a atheist because what. The irony of that itself is funny. People with no education of knowledge should not speak for a entire people. Go educate yourself before embarrassing us all.
The guy asked is God limited by logic?
Rami: that is a fallacious question then screaming it’s self-defeating and then ending with God sent a angel to deliver the message.
A fallacious question means in essence a question framed in a way that leads to illogical or misleading conclusion often using unwarranted assumptions, false dilemmas used to manipulate responses. So examples have you stop drinking alcohol. The question assumes dat I have been drinking without evidence or the possibility I have never drunk alcohol before.
How is the question is God logical a fallacious question now you yourself you understand the definition better than Rami himself. So he just randomly screams big words he doesn’t even understand.
Another example for that. The immediate next argument he screams it’s self-defeating. Self-defeating is when something is self-defeating when it works against itself, making it counterproductive or unable to achieve its intended outcome. So a easy example so you understand better than Rami does what it entails. I always lie. That is self defeating as if it’s true then this sentence itself cannot as i would then speak the truth which makes it self-defeating. Another example. I have never written a word in my life. The statement undermines itself as for writing that sentence defeats it’s own claim. So again no you guys understand self defeating better than Rami. How was the question is God logical self defeating.
He thinks using words that seem to go over his head and screaming them are valid arguments. Like this is delusional to the point of maybe a mental problem.
Another examples for this. And I’m explaining it clearly.
Deductive reasoning involves drawing specific conclusions from general principles or premises. Here's a simple example:
1. All humans are mortal. (General Premise)
2. Socrates is a human. (Specific Premise)
3. Therefore, Socrates is mortal. (Deductive Conclusion)
In this example, the conclusion about Socrates being mortal is drawn logically from the general principle that all humans are mortal. Deductive reasoning aims to be valid - if the premises are true and the reasoning is sound, the conclusion is considered logically certain. It's a top-down approach where you start with general statements and work your way to specific conclusions.
Presupposed means simply something that is assumed or taken for granted before considering or discussing a particular topic or situation. He doesn’t understand what that means. In many discussions involving mathematical concepts or calculations, the understanding and application of mathematical principles are often presupposed. For example, when discussing a physics problem, there might be a presupposition that the audience has a basic understanding of mathematical equations.
A presupposition that is clearly wrong in this case.
He throws around words he doesn’t understand and entire branches of science he doesn’t understand while screaming and think he is logical. The embodiment of Dunning Kruger Effect. Meaning to incompetent to realize his own incompetence. And again mathematics as we know it comes from Islamic Golden age and him attacking it with words he clearly doesn’t grasp pissed me off enough to type this up.
And these were just the first statements he made. The first minutes alone proved enough about his delusional perceived grasp of these subjects.